Remember when 1.2 was still in development? When all the n00bs were crying, and the vets were telling them to shut up, and everyone was looking forward to what Michal called "The best version of Soldat ever." Everyone was whining about how terrible 1.1.5 was, griping about WMVs, and lynching Michal for announcing 1.2 almost read 1/2 a year early (maybe not quite that much, but I think it was about 5 months).

Michal's explaination for why 1.2 was taking so long, was that he wanted it to be the best ever, and the most bug free ever. He said he didn't want to be releasing a patch right after it was released, like he did with 1.1.5. Then 1.2 came out. Vets whined about the new speed, the n00bs were still whining about barrets, and we had bad packets out the ears. And then the lobby stopped working for those behind firewalls. I quit soldat for a couple months, simply because the lobby wasn't available.

So rather than having a fix a couple days after the release, like with 1.1.5, we had a fix a couple months later. So what did the long development cycle gain us? It didn't fix all the bugs. I understand that Michal was working with a limited pool of beta testers, but I think that they let some things slip through. In fact, I regard the way the Bad Packet errors slipped through into the release version as inexcusable.

All this analysis and complaining to say this: We will never have a perfect version of Soldat. There will always be n00bs whining about the 'overpowered' weapon of the day, and the vets will always be telling them to Shut The Heck Up. There will always be those who want Soldat to be Halo, or CounterStrike. And there will always be a group of dedicated Soldat players who will play soldat, regardless of the bugs and percieved weapon imbalance.

1.1.5 was the most broken version of soldat in my memory (I've played since 1.1.3), but I still played it. I enjoyed it. 1.1.3 only had the Socom as a secondary weapon, now I wouldn't consider playing without the LAW, but I stilled played and enjoyed it. 1.1.4 had a terribly overpowered chainsaw, but I still played, and pwned. 1.1.5 had WMVs that drove us all up the wall, but I still played when I could find a stable server. 1.2 has autos that are (IMHO) overpowered, but I still play, and I enjoy it. There will always be bugs, and there will always be problems, but there will also always be a playable soldat.

Maybe we should go back to 0.9.4c? It was so simple, there wasn't much to go wrong. I don't think anyone would prefer 0.9.4 to 1.2, there are so many more features to 1.2. And that is the source of the problems. The more new features we have, the more bugs there will be. Put up with it.

In conclusion, I would like to say that there will be the same parallel between 1.2 and 1.2.1 ( or 1.3), as there was between 1.1.5 and 1.2. And we will still play it.

Heil Michal, keep up the good work, don't get depressed by a whiny community, and make each version of soldat better than the one before it.

Cheers and Peace
Dragon88

very nice text
i agree with u in every single point! very nicely done :D
cheers dude!
one question, what are WMV's?

WMV = Wrong Map Version

Amen

quote:Originally posted by Dragon88
So rather than having a fix a couple days after the release, like with 1.1.5, we had a fix a couple months later. So what did the long development cycle gain us? It didn't fix all the bugs. I understand that Michal was working with a limited pool of beta testers, but I think that they spoofed their job. In fact, I regard the way the Bad Packet errors slipped through into the release version as inexcusable.


[:-censored] you. Beta testers did their jobs. Ask anyone who played the leaked 1.1.6 beta, it was as buggy as hell. We told Michal about the bad packet errors, but he needed to know every single one, every different number. And that was too hard. Thats why its taken this long for him to fix them.

If you actually compare 1.2 to every other soldat version from 1.1 onwards, its actually the most bug free.

You don't get to see what goes on in development. I vividly remember the game fuxoring if you used file logging, then I remember in the next beta when the game fuxored if you DIDN'T use file logging. The system lag problem with online demo recording. The friendly fire bug where you shot a teammate with M79 or LAW and it took away all their health but didn't kill them.

So, in future, next time you feel like having a dig at beta testers, remember that you are seeing what we didn't fix, opposed to what we did fix.

well think the weapon balance is good now in 1.2, it's just as easy to kill with a automatic then any other weapon, exept the barret, its still the easyest weapon to kill with and requires the least skill (becouse of its one shot one kill and HIGH accuricy and zoom).
And with that long development cycle we did gain something, else there would be even MORE bugs then there where before the fix, but agree that it wasn't bug free at all.
But other then that, verry nicely put and also my thoughts...

I remember 1.1.3 and 1.1.4 being less buggy

Then 1.2 came out. Vets whined about the new speed
I didn't see a single vet complaining about the "new speed".. the physics were changed to a more 1.0.5b-like feeling and that definately isn't something to whine about.

I quit soldat for a couple months, simply because the lobby wasn't available.
The lobby was still available via the web frontend (http://lobby.soldat.pl:13073/) and you still have ASE.
How long did this last? Maybe 2 weeks? :)

but I think that they spoofed their job. In fact, I regard the way the Bad Packet errors slipped through into the release version as inexcusable.
see Stalky's post
How much fun I had with file logging, mercy and LAW... aww

quote:Originally posted by palloco
I remember 1.1.3 and 1.1.4 being less buggy


I don't like to be petty, but 1.1.3 had anti-lag in linux servers alone which led to stupid player balances across the lobby. Linux servers were packed whereas normal servers were empty. That was lame.

1.1.4 had the LAW firing from prone, which was a very very very bad bug.

i liked firing from prone in mid air ^^ it rocked :D

quote:Originally posted by Stalky
quote:Originally posted by palloco
I remember 1.1.3 and 1.1.4 being less buggy


I don't like to be petty, but 1.1.3 had anti-lag in linux servers alone which led to stupid player balances across the lobby. Linux servers were packed whereas normal servers were empty. That was lame.

1.1.4 had the LAW firing from prone, which was a very very very bad bug.


Those arent bugs, one is a something related to old server and other was another way to fire. A bug? Then firing barrets on air is a super bug.

The "No health from FF M79/law" bug I have experienced at soldat 1.2.. just a few times.. hehe..
Anyway..
Good post :) Agree with most of it.. But the thing U say about beta testers I belive is wrong, becaus I got my hands of some of the betas an played online.. and.. well.. some of the games where quite Corney.. Coz when U hit som1 they didnt die.. and when they shot like the other way I died... it basicly LAGGED WORSE THEN hell ! and Bugges there were lots of.... (I like dots BTW.. ^^)

I dont really think any of the weapons are overpower in 1.2, mebbe the Mps are a bit to easy to use, but thats my opinion anyway.
The barret, how can you say its (@BlackSpear) the weapon that requier least skill ?
Thats not true !! Barret Requiers much skill, not to kill som1 with but to pawn with ! If U miss U die basicly,, and what if there are 3 ppl Vs U at once ? Dodging (written right ? ^^) Bullets and throwing nades, using secondary is skills that are VITAL in order to pawn at soldat..

As allready mentioned, soldat wont be perfect.. (Unless by some miracle EVERY F*CKING soldat player becomes a 1337 programmer and the source is released so U can make soldat, your own way..)

I think Michal has done a terrific job at his game, i love it and play bout every day when I'm home.. I have played it for more then a year, and wil contineu to play it in the future..

Everybody who leaked 1.2 version was executed by me personally

quote:Originally posted by Stalky
quote:Originally posted by Dragon88
So rather than having a fix a couple days after the release, like with 1.1.5, we had a fix a couple months later. So what did the long development cycle gain us? It didn't fix all the bugs. I understand that Michal was working with a limited pool of beta testers, but I think that they spoofed their job. In fact, I regard the way the Bad Packet errors slipped through into the release version as inexcusable.


[:-censored] you. Beta testers did their jobs. Ask anyone who played the leaked 1.1.6 beta, it was as buggy as hell. We told Michal about the bad packet errors, but he needed to know every single one, every different number. And that was too hard. Thats why its taken this long for him to fix them.

If you actually compare 1.2 to every other soldat version from 1.1 onwards, its actually the most bug free.

You don't get to see what goes on in development. I vividly remember the game fuxoring if you used file logging, then I remember in the next beta when the game fuxored if you DIDN'T use file logging. The system lag problem with online demo recording. The friendly fire bug where you shot a teammate with M79 or LAW and it took away all their health but didn't kill them.

So, in future, next time you feel like having a dig at beta testers, remember that you are seeing what we didn't fix, opposed to what we did fix.


You can relax now, I know exactly what life is like for beta testers. My point was that some bugs slipped through the net that shouldn't have. I don't think you can argue that the beta testers did their job perfectly. I didn't say that 1.2 was the most buggy either. If you care to look at my post, you will see:

quote:1.1.5 was the most broken version of soldat in my memory

quote:
I didn't see a single vet complaining about the "new speed".. the physics were changed to a more 1.0.5b-like feeling and that definately isn't something to whine about.


Hmm, I ran into several of them (including tribal, I believe) as I played who said that things moved faster and that it screwed the game up. Maybe it was just them, cuz I didn't mind it, but they did whine.

quote:The lobby was still available via the web frontend (http://lobby.soldat.pl:13073/) and you still have ASE.
How long did this last? Maybe 2 weeks? :)


First off, no, I didn't have ASE. Second, I work behind an authenticating cache, and I can't just get online whenever I feel like it. No my friend, it lasted since february.

Just to restate this, cuz everyone is taking it wrong:

I know the beta testers fixed many many many many bugs, but they let a few slip through that never should have made it to the 1.2 release. I'm not running down beta testers, I love the beta testers, because w/o them soldat wouldn't be the great game that it is. I recognize that, and I stated that soldat will never be perfect, but some bugs did slip through. I don't regard that as a problem, and I don't hold it against the testers personally, I just think that they should have caught the Bad Packet errors.

While I agree that they probably should have caught the Bad Packets, the errors themeselves are pretty harmless. All they do is scroll the chat a little in a game where not a whole lot is said.

That's right, I'm not saying that they ruined the game.

"So rather than having a fix a couple days after the release, like with 1.1.5, we had a fix a couple months later. So what did the long development cycle gain us? It didn't fix all the bugs. I understand that Michal was working with a limited pool of beta testers, but I think that they spoofed their job. In fact, I regard the way the Bad Packet errors slipped through into the release version as inexcusable."

actually, the versions we tested arent the version you play now.
on the stage of "1.1.6c" or whatever it was.. most of the bugs you have now werent there.

stop asking for so much...

thats true... ppl like don t apretiate michal's work, i apretiate it, and yes i remember myself whinning about the speed and some other things i dont remember.. but hey once u get used to it its all good

Wow, the most speeches in one thread ^^

ahahha cup!!!

quote:Originally posted by cup_of_squirrels
Wow, the most speeches in one thread ^^
Does that include your signature? [:p]

Anyway, Soldat is great and the beta testers pretty much did what they were supposed to. They don't make the game, they just provide feedback about bugs, improvements, etc. The rest is up to Michal and considering the size of the task and the fact that the entire community was pestering him constantly about the release of 1.2, he did a pretty great job.

My siggy aint a speech, just a load of balls I get from my creepy inner visions :D

A speech to me is just a loong post :)

For everyone complaining about the bad packet errors, download the fix and shut the [:-censored] up.

Dragon88: Jesus, READ my post! I told you, we were aware of bad packet, but the error couldn't be fixed! I'm sick of people blaming the beta testers because 1.2 was really different to 1.1.5 and they suck in the new version.

Stop preaching and go have fun.

quote:Originally posted by HellRaider
For everyone complaining about the bad packet errors, download the fix and shut the [:-censored] up.


Well said my friend well said

Hi!

It's impossible to write bugfree software. It's impossible to find all bugs. It's impossible to elminate all bugs.

As I noticed Michael is devoloping this game on his own (that means he is the only one knowing the code) and I can fully understand his decision. But IMHO this is the wrong way. At long sight it will need a little team (up to 5 persons - not more, because then it will end up in too much coordinationwork) to develop Soldat. And I believe the faster this will be done the better it's for the game. More hands do more work. More eyes see more bugs.

I've seen a lot of good projects vanish forever. I think without this change Soldat will for sure vanish too sometime in the future.

Ok. Probably that was mentioned before, probably you think im a stupid noob, probably you will flame me now,... Nevertheless i wanted to mention that because I think I have to.

noorg

All games will vanish sooner or later.

THE ONLY BAD THING ABOUT 1.2 IS THAT THE BARRET IS A [:-censored]ING SUPERWEAPON. make it where u need to crouch/prone to fire then it will be fair. its a 25 pound sniper rifle. and it needs a bipod so that people can aim it. the fact that people can fire it on the move(barrets are usually dissasembled before transportation) and in the air is extrememly unfair. its a sniping/camping weapon.and sniping is harder to do because ur stationary, and if u miss then YES, you are acually screwed. unlike those barret assaulters...

lol I love how everything eventually evolves into a barret thread.

LOL, yes

yeah lol

I agree to Dragon in every point. It's all right (except I don't [:-censored] about the beta ppl ;).

Da_Cheeseman: Your avatar ownz :)

I didnt like 1.2 much when it came out but now it goes... It were lil like 1.05 -> 1.10 it felt weard... Barret hasnt changed a bit it has always been sum kind of fast and powerful killing weapon favored by most ppl who want "easy" kills... Anyways I think that barret is not chaning until Michal makes it less accurate or longer reloading times. When soldat has all weapons balanced good then its more I like it, now it is like good if there aint 10 ppl shooting with barrets each other.

And yes it is impossible to find and fix every bug in software but its possible to fix em when they have been noticed so only thing that can be done is to send bug reports...

Alright. Due to the fact that beta testers were taking offense to my post, I went back and reread it and thought of a more diplomatic (and, actually, more correct) way to say it. I misphrased initially, but I didn't think the testers would take it so hard. Anyways, I have gone back and changed it to be a more accurate portrayal of my thoughts. Please go back and re-read that section.

Ok no more barret threads! what ever we do we cant let this turn into a barret thread there realy starting to fuk these forms up!

so then say something related to the topic.

Dragon88: Its not personal. Since 1.2 we had a lot of beta tester bashing threads, and it becomes hard to stay nice after a while...

really? I hadn't seen any, I don't visit anything but the bugs forum and the dev forum much :D Anyways, the beta testers thing aside, who agrees with me?

quote:Originally posted by Dragon88
so then say something related to the topic.


I dont want to say something related to the topic i said I want people to stop makeing al threads into barret threads