I dunno if many of you know about this, but recently, but the Russian Federation and India jointly created the worlds most lethal and fastest cruise missile - BrahMos. It can travel at three times the speed of sound, and cannot be tracked by radar, and no American patriotic missile system can destroy a BrahMos missile.
more over on - www.brahmos.com

What a load of bs.

and?

so now u gonna invade USA or something? christ like osama ISNT gonna get his hands on this and kill innocent americans thanx alot russia u sell them AKs, now watch them sell Brahmos. and india u burn! very burn!

what do you guys mean a load of bull[:-censored]? its been officially tested and has angered the U.S.A., Pakistan, and China. Typical countires to oppose it.

mak89gt please post the results of the tests in this thread. And also the list of the countries that gave an official protest to the development of the missle.

otherwise, stop running your gums

Someones bragging about a stupid missile that would break up in the air...

explain your argument frogboy

Well, come on, 3x the speed of sound...

-EDIT-

Ok, I talked to my dad (he knows A HELL OF A LOT MORE about the military of our country, our relations with other countries, and just about anything you would want to know about a country), and I've been set straight.

3X the speed of sound. Not bad...(US has 6X the speed of sound missiles though)

Hey, not seen on radars...we have some of those too.

The missile range isn't great, but it can protect your ships, if that is the intended purpose.

If this is used to protect India from Pakistan, and Russia from only god know's what, then I'm all for it.

If this is supposed to "threaten" the powerful countries of the UN, then think again. :)

They contribute more because they can. For instance, what can a country with 20 mil population do compared to a country with 100 mil... I might look at that in Warcraft some day.

Heh, I just realised, why do the US need spies if others are just going to advertise the full specs of their weapons over the internet?

3x speed of sound won't break up the missile!!!! the SR-71 Blackbird spyplane goes about that speed and last i checked its been running smoothly since 1970's or something...
Fastest jet in the world (can't remember the name...was it X-15) goes at about 6x speed of sound

Russia doesn't need cruise missiles to protect itself - they are busy fighting chechnyans and you can't fight terrorists with cruise missiles

PS> the patriot missile system can't destroy [:-censored] anyways...in the Gulf war, they didn't do much good versus Iraqi SCUDs
america should learn that...

Meh, I don't know crap.

Heres a bit of helpfull information guys: USA has its soldiers up the world's very ass (a few thousand in more than half of the world's countries, and thats just the army, we didnt even get to the CIA yet), in other words, it anticipates and destroys any threat to its position on top of the world's superpowers. If anyone would develope a weapon that is better or can counter USA's defence system, they would either have spent more money to conceal the project than actually to finance it; Or USA would have the plans for the weapon(s) stolen, crash the project, or/and upgrade their own weapons systems to counter that missle.

Its not like I love the world's crazy powerplay or am somehow proud of any country that puts more money to flex millitary muscle than invest on its own schools, but its the sad truth...

About American Patriot missles - I've been present in Israel back in the first gulf war, and the patriots actually helped the Iraquis more than they helped Israel/USA. I actually saw 2 missles in the air, one of them was a SCUD, the other was a patriot missle going after it, and the patriot missle didnt really catch up in time untill the scud landed in a mall, while was originally targeted at a refinary a few kilometers away, the patriot missle simply went right after the SCUD and added to the big explosion. I saw that from a few miles away, but the smoke trails and explosions were clear enough...Then it was broadcasted on the news...

we need to better our patriot missile defense system it apparently suxx0rs

damn i am waiting for the day USA invades Russia, because russians could not get their [:-censored] together for the last 500 years

India has not been doing too well after the English left

My point - stupid people need supervision (see: Japan, S. Korea, Germany, Iraq, etc.)

Haha.

I think the north of korea needs more supervision, thats the commie part.

FINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNE well take over the world, the USA might as well get it over with, it is ineviteable

Who the [:-censored] are you to say other countries need supervision?

well i believe in it the Russians would like to invade us if they had the chance.. and the Us got Abombs pointed at the whole world...

quote:and thats just the army, we didnt even get to the CIA yet

CIA are campers.

Meandor dont get pissy with me. Never get pissy with me.

I am just comparing facts, thats what i do. It is common knowledge that every country that USA successfully taken over, now lives a better life. So here are some examples.
Before US invasion and After US invasion.

Japan:
before - an aggressive dictator, that constantly attacked neigboring states killing hundreds of thousands of people. Finally joined the Nazis in the late 1930s. Bad idea.
after - one of the strongest economies in the world, main USA ally to the east. One of the major car/computer games/whatever manufacturers in the whole world.

South Korea:
before - a poor country where people were dying from starvation. They decided to turn to communism in 1950s. Bad idea
after - one of the richest countries in the world. Leader in technology. Stable economy and great living standards.
(see North Korea if you want to know how koreans live w/o US supervision)

Germany:
before - a decent country, but they go mad every 30-40 years and start taking over the world. BAD IDEA
after - a technological powerhouse. USA ally, all around great country. See: Mercedes, BMW, German porn, etc.

Iraq:
before - you know what it was like before USA invaded. 30 years of brutal dictatorship, hundrerds of thousands dead in repressions, etc., etc.
after - see Japan, Germany, S. Korea

Russia:
before - a huge country with tens of thousands of nukes. Low life levels, poverty, corruption, organized crime, you name it, we got it.
after - I am still waiting for USA to take over my country, so i can return there w/o fearing for my life.

Any questions?

but the Us are afraid of the Russians so i dont think they will

Blackbird is now a museum piece due to its high maintenance, there are only 3 in active.

BMF...uhh...well, I mostly agree. :)

quote:but the Us are afraid of the Russians so i dont think they will

*Looks at country* Wow, I didn't know that you guys in Denmark know what every single American is afraid of...I thought that with over 250 million people from over 60 different nations, not everyone would think the same.

But I'm sure you're right...I'm sure the US is afraid of the Russians, since their government collapsed less than 13 years ago...We're always afraid of countries with fallen government...

OH WAIT, WE'RE NOT! WE JUST HAVE OUR FORCES SPREAD AROUND THE EASTERN HEMISPHERE RIGHT NOW!

Here's what it would take for us to go into Russia:

1) Threat of collapse of Democracy
2) Assassination of Vladimir Putin
3) Peace in the Middle East (hah...well...forget that)
4) A rebounding economy
5) Jeb Bush as President of US (meaning it would not happen until after 2008)

We really have no reason to enter Russia at this point. They're rebuilding themselves...slowly but surely. As long as things go smoothly for the next 20 years or so, the hard-core Soviets will begin to die down (hopefully), and life will become much smoother.

quote:Originally posted by BMF

Germany:
before - a decent country, but they go mad every 30-40 years and start taking over the world. BAD IDEA


I actually thought that was a good idea =d
( and who asked you Americans to come over here in Italy during ww2? Are you really sure we all wanted it to be like it is now because of that? )

quote:South Korea:
before - a poor country where people were dying from starvation. They decided to turn to communism in 1950s. Bad idea
after - one of the richest countries in the world. Leader in technology. Stable economy and great living standards.
(see North Korea if you want to know how koreans live w/o US supervision)
It was actually that Korea turned commie, and North and South split up and North attacked South, I think.

quote:Originally posted by frogboy
They contribute more because they can. For instance, what can a country with 20 mil population do compared to a country with 100 mil...

well.. quite alot.
israel = 6.50 million (according to 2002).
(random country) syria = 17.15 millions.

enough said.

Incubus i imagine that US are scared of teh nukes right now. Until they build that anti-nuke protection thing.

I actually believe they already have it. But dont wanna tell anybody about it =)
I mean NASA sent a ship to Mars, cant they stop a couple of ballistic missles coming their way??

And nothing good will ever happen in Russia. Ever. Trust me, i grew up there =)

I can say the same for Israel...

lol man, you cant even compare those too

Russia and Israel are on two different levels

Not by comparison, but the words fit into both cases, you can say that nothing good will happen in Russia. If you look at Israel, there was always some war/revolt/terror/hidious crimes performed by some religious [:-censored]s who think they have privelages over the law. And that still happens, every time they say they're going to finish it off, but they never did :)

Ok. This is what will happen. Eventually the suicide bombers will all kill themselves, the cities will be in ruins, and basically, everyone will rebuild and start suiciding again.

i wont say the americans have made the countries "a better place to be" they spread death

quote:they spread death


LOL...people who say stuff like this make me laugh...

"ONLY Americans kill other people!" Does that not sound completely idiotic?

Look around the world. Cuba is controlled by a horrible dictator who more or less has totally destroyed the economy of his country, crippling the people, and making them starve to death. China kills little baby girls because they are "good for nothing", so they can have a society full of men...

Continuing our trek around the world, we come to the Middle East, where various terrorist groups have control of the government in many of the countries (not officially, but it's obvious). These terrorist groups kill innocent women and children in cafes and stores.

This one guy named Saddam Hussein killed or imprisoned over 10,000 of his people in his country. He invaded Kuwait City and tried to take over it completely...

Some Osama Bin Laden dude planned an attack that killed over 1,300 Americans two years ago.

North Korea lets a lot of their people die in the streets, because the Communists are too busy trying to quickly build their army, when slow and steady wins the race...

During WWII, fascist leaders (Hitler of Germany and Mousilini of Italy) killed people of a certain religion (who, btw, are still being singled out for their religion)

...Lenin and Stalin had innocent, hardworking Russians killed (over 1.3 MILLION WERE KILLED...a lot for not really making the headlines like Hitler's haulocast)...




...AND THAT'S STUFF THAT HAS HAPPENED THROUGHOUT THE PAST 60 YEARS...

...AND STILL YOU DO NOT LISTEN...

...AND IT'S VERY, VERY SAD...

...BUT GO AHEAD; AS LONG AS YOU KNOW YOU'RE IGNORANT, IT'S ALL OK WITH ME...

be optimistic tfs.. someday, when both sharon and arafat will be 20feet under the ground, the people in both countries will get it in their head, that we are all humans.

quote:This one guy named Saddam Hussein killed or imprisoned over 10,000 of his people in his country

more like hundreds of thousands

quote:...Lenin and Stalin had innocent, hardworking Russians killed (over 1.3 MILLION WERE KILLED...a lot for not really making the headlines like Hitler's haulocast)...


Well technically Lenin and Stalin did not kill anybody. Hard working russians were killing hard working russians =)
The real number of deaths is WAY over 10 million. Some say over 20 million.

Everyone kills, but not everyone helps...

And yes, USA isnt really making the world that much of a better place to be, if you actually saw what they did other than watching it on CNN, and pat yourself on the back because you're American...

lol TFS sometimes you can be thick headed

Sometimes?

Lets remember who gave weapons to Osama Bin, Laden, to Saddam hussein, who put Pinochet directing Chile...

quote:Originally posted by enjoyincubus


During WWII, fascist leaders (Hitler of Germany and Mousilini of Italy) killed people of a certain religion (who, btw, are still being singled out for their religion)



Inform yourself before saying this kind of things.
Hitler was a nazist dicator, not fascist ( and there's actually a difference )
Mussolini never killed or persecuted jews. After he started doing foolish things to mimic Hitler ( such as going to war in France and Greece ), there was also a remote attemp to persecute jews, but no one really cared.

Hitler was fascist. I asked google what it defines as 'fascism'. It came up with many results, but this, by far, was the most outstanding-
"You have two cows. The government takes both, hires you to take care of them, and sells you the milk."
But seriously, heres the real definition.
"Political philosophy that became predominant in Italy and then Germany during the 1920s and 1930s; attacked weakness of democracy, corruption of capitalism; promised vigorous foreign and military programs; undertook state control of economy to reduce social friction. (p. 870)"

hitler wasnt fascist... germany (if i'm not mistaken) WAS fasicst. at the 20's (as you said above).

then, (1934 i think) the nazi party were 'voted' at the election day as the 3rd (again, correct me if i'm wrong) biggest group/union/party/forgot-the-word in germany .

hitler considerd fascisem as the closest thing to nazisem tho.

well, after WWI Germany became a "democracy", to call it so, they had rules, ppl lived in peace, jews and christians, living toghether.
but on the other hand, as in any place where jews live, there wes a big anti semitism in germany, and Hitler needed to blame a "public enemy" in order to get some endurance from the german ppl.
its well known that Hitler never fogave germany for giving up in WWI, he was a soldier in WWI, and he got blind in from a granade explosion, when he got out of the hospital he found out his beloved country gave up to the enemy, and they suffered those first years, but then they did some economical treaties with USA, and when the global economy was on its best (before the big fall, see 30's on USA history) Germany was a good democracy, they were actually going up. and then the economy got bad, really bad, and in times of hunger ppl tend to choose the agressive leaders instead of the quiet ones. so the Nazi party came in a good place, and the President was a very old former General (i cant remember his name now, might be Hindenburg), and when the old president died, Hitler took control, in a "democratic" election :P
to gain more endurance Hitler did a campain vs the Socialists (burning the city hall (or maybe the goverment building), making working camps for comunists, movies that made them look bad) and the Nazi party got elected. the next to come was moves to make the economy better, taking over some mining sites in yugoslavia, etc etc.
till they got to the jews, oh the jews, they were in germany, and they were like any other german, they acted the same, dressed the same, they always said Hitler wont do anything to them cuz they were Germans on 1st place and then jewish, but ey, they got slaughtered. and then after Russia and Germany joined toghther to control Poland, the Nazis saw the real jews, the religious ones that werent aware of the nazi move. then the working camps became death camps, and the rest is well known history.

dont ask me why im writing this in the middle of nowhere, i just felt like it!

Hitler was not fascist, instead of googling read history books, and think that since Meandor lives in Italia he may know more than you about that, like that fascism comes from the Italian word fasccio(or however is spelled) and nazism from Nazional Socialist

woah, political discussions!
Of course the weapon will kill innocent americans, thats what weapons is all about, killing innocents, at least that seems to be what they do best. That goes for any weapon, m16, kalashnikov what have u...

As for USA being the saviour of mankind, i dont agree, sure they have done some good things, but lets be honest for a while, not everything has been for the promotion of kindness in this world. Contras, osama bin laden, hussein, pinochet, the list can be made rather long.

Strange thing this whole USA vs world thing, I find most americans that i have met abroad to be incredibly enlightened ppl, I once met a former gulfsoldier, and he was very aware of the wrongdoings of the US in the past, also very humble after travelling around the world and listening to ppl. On the other hand, some of the ppl interviewed after 9/11 was pretty horrible. I particularly remember one guy at a bar who said "they took 5000 of our guys, now we are going to take 5000 of theirs", commenting on the invasion of iraq. I always thought that 5000+5000=10000 not 0...

What I mean is, the US are very patriotic, which is kind of ok with me, but the lack of introspection is pretty scary. US is for example the only country in the world convicted for state terrorism so far. Once again, I dont judge the ppl of america, i mean, as i said ive met quite a lot of them, and they are wonderful in many ways, but still, the analyzing of their own country becomes pretty hard when patriotism is so strong.
So in conclusion, read stupid white men, see bowling for columbine, u will be fine ;)

Flamers, please piss off, i was trying to be constructive.

/Mariachi, swede, whose country mislead the citizens during ww2 to actually believe that they were neutral, while in many ways helping nazi-germany. It is just know that we are learning the whole story.

Patriotism is a bad bad feeling

quote:Inform yourself before saying this kind of things.
Hitler was a nazist dicator, not fascist ( and there's actually a difference )
Mussolini never killed or persecuted jews. After he started doing foolish things to mimic Hitler ( such as going to war in France and Greece ), there was also a remote attemp to persecute jews, but no one really cared.

Fascism-
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

Nazism-

The ideology and practice of the Nazis, especially the policy of racist nationalism, national expansion, and state control of the economy.


Oh, I guess you're right...there's a [:-censored]ing minute difference. :-/

Yeah, I bet Italy did NOTHING wrong in WWII either...it was probably all the US (who did not enter the war until it had been going on for over 2 years) and Germany.

Maybe Mousilini didn't kill any Jews...but he sure as hell killed a lot of other people...

Look at Northern Africa. Italy invaded Ethiopia to get revenge for when they lost it in 1895 to a bunch of unorganized Ethiopian militia. Of course they took it with their airplanes and bombs.

Where was the US at this time? In Isolationism. While you guys were practicing your expansionalist ways, we were quietly staying out of the war. England, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Germany, Italy, and Japan went to war before us...

I don't really mind people taking sides with their country...as long as they know the whole story.

quote:Originally posted by BMF
Patriotism is a bad bad feeling


I think it is bad when it gets in the way of analysis and rational thoughts. If ppl can find joy for belonging to a specific nation, thats great, whatever works for them, right?

/Mariachi

I didn't say Italy didn't do anything wrong or bad in WW2, and i'd never say that, i was just stating as a fact that jews weren't persecuted.
Go read again my post. You're the one taking side with your country, pretending you live in the land of the good and the brave, not I.
( I won't post how many people were killed because of Mussolini and fascim. Not only the sources are generally inaccurate and higly influenced depending on where they are published, but it also seems disgusting to me comparing countries faults, especially by the number of victims )
BTW IT'S NOT [:-censored]ING ALL BLACK AND WHITE.

Die [:-censored]ing americans! :P

Meandor, jews were persecuted on Italy during WWII, but they had enough problems with the rebels to care about jews, but if the soldiers cought any jew, they would send them over to the Nazi concentration camps.

Meandor, you are an intelliegent guy. And you love your country. But let it go man. Makes you look bad.

El Mariarchi, i guess. Whatever floats your boat =)

No, i don't actually love my country that much, there are many things i don't like at all. I guess i didn't explain myself properly. I simply wanted to say that in war, no one is innocent and no one is right. Everyone has it's faults, but discussing about them, and who is more or less guilty is silly.
This is why i generally dislike politics arguements, on tv, with friends or on the internet; though i always end up partecipating =d

Comparing fascism to nazism is like comparing socialism to communism.

>> germany (if i'm not mistaken) WAS fasicst. at the 20's (as you said above).

yes ure mistaken, Germany was a democratic republic till NSDAP won elections in 23.III.1933.

>>Where was the US at this time? In Isolationism. While you guys were practicing your expansionalist ways, we were quietly staying out of the war. England, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Germany, Italy, and Japan went to war before us...

ah yes good old doctrine of Monroe, we react only if our business in America is in danger.