I will like to know the age-old question in on-line games, "Are campers n00bs?". Most people say "Yes, they are damn annoying buggers!" and so say "No, that is just their way of playing". Then it asks the question "Who is a camper?". After all if one team is underattack everybody respawning is a campers then, and somebody going back to defend their base is a camper too. Somebody, please help me?

hooray to another stupid thread

I don't see how it's stupid, looks like a pretty good question to me. Ok well I think it's on to camp like you said just their way of playing, you can't really Camp in this game anyways since you can see almost everything that goes on, but if you are backing up your allies with a M60 in the high grass (whitch I do sometimes) then I think it's ok also if you are snipering you have to camp in order to get the shot you want.

I'll fill this one:

Is it not n00bish to be able to point and click once to kill someone, then flame _other_ people, telling them that they're n00bs, with no skill?

There are three types of campers. I'll let you make up your mind on them:

Ambushers - Ambushers lie in wait behind or in cover, waiting for a enemy to pass by when upon that time they spring into action and shoot you in the back/face/groin/whatever they can to kill you. They basically sit there behind cover and wait for you, and then attack often exposing themselves. The only drawback to this is that if the abushee knows the ambusher is still there, the ambusher is dead. As well, the ambusher is often not expecting to be attacked in his hiding place, so his reaction will be slowed if a nade is thrown next to him.

Defenders - People sitting and defending a worthwhile target. For example, people often defend their flag, and then get called "n00b campers" because of this. Defending a stationary area - standing behind a sand bag - walking between areas trying to catch a enemy when he passes - these are all thought of as "defending" because... well, you're "defending" the area. Please note: You can only defend something of yours not the enemy's!

Campers - People that sit and litterally "set up camp". I belive the first use of this came from another T/DM game where players would stick around health and weapon/ammo spawn points waiting for the item(s) to spawn and then take them, preventing other players use of them. However, this is also translateable to staying near a spawn point in said T/DM game and waiting for the enemy to spawn before Fragging him.

So, if you didn't want to read that because you're impatient, here's a summary:
Ambushers - Stays stationary or in a small area where the enemy does not expect him to be and then attack when said enemy passes by.
Defenders - Stays stationary or in a small area where the enemy expects to find him and fights the enemy at that location to stop said enemy from progressing to his goal.
Campers - Stays stationary or in a small area where the enemy or items spawn in in a attempt to either kill the enemy before he does anything or to get the items en-masse before the enemy does. SIMILAR to ambushing, but in a far more aggressive fasion (aggressive enough to be considered LAME or ABUSIVE)

SO, there you go. Simple definitions of actions. Here's a bonus two:

Attacking - Moving towards the enemy firing somewhere outside of their base in a aggressive move to take over another, non-base area.
Seiging - Either very fast, or very slow, it is always bloody with heavy deaths on both sides. The seiger seeks to get to it's goal (the flag, most likely) while the seiged seek to stop the seigers. Firing into the spawns can be thought of as seiging. The moment the goal is taken for the seigers, the seige is over. anything past this might as would be considered camping from the seiged.

There's nothing wrong with camping (although everybody complains).... It's when the spawn killing gets involved that there is a problem.

It's so freakin stoopid when everyone complains... the only real noob are the stoopid people he cant kill the snipers (who cant zoom fully without laying down) and kepp running back chuckin nades at evrything until he dies, rinses and repeats... just shutup, every once in a while I like to indulge in shooting someone from nowhere... its plenty of fun to see them fly everywhere then return the flag they ever so diligintly tried to steal... moral: shutup... run... shoot [:-censored]... happy birthday.

quote:Originally posted by BMF
hooray to another stupid thread

++

GUNKATA, you're an idiot.

I like some snipers. There isn't anything like "camper" in Soldat, except spawn-campers, Mechanoid's definition explain this.

campers arent nubs

I don't mind campers, even though I would say it, to make them move :P.

lol @ gunkata :)

Phht, if you ask me, campers arnt noobs, theyre just using about 2% of their potential. "Whoa look at me! I'm laying down in an area where itll take a miracle to kill me and I can kill anyone from 2 screens away... with one shot!"

Camping is simply another strategy for playing the game.

People who complain about campers and call them noobs are just afraid to admit that they aren't good enough to find a way to circumvent them. There are plenty of ways to get rid of campers - even spawn killers. If someone is spawn camping, the simple solution is to just spawn with a M72 Law or knife or even a chainsaw for your next spawn. Plus, a few members of your team will usually spawn at the same time as you, making it even easier to counter it. And of course, the easiest way of keeping spawn killers out is to make sure you kill them if they get too close.

The same goes for "regular" campers. Most of the best hiding places where there is tall grass or whatever are well-known, so if you think someone is camping there, be prepared for them. Most camping spots you can just avoid and use a different route (and even surprise them from behind). Plus, most campers do not leave the area after they kill you - they think they have a great thing going and stick around, which makes it easy to ambush them from behind.

And of course, even a camping barreter will miss some of the time, and they're pretty much screwed if more than one person attacks them at once.

I always laugh to myself when I see someone say "camper" while playing, as if it's some kind of insult. It's just another way to play the game; if you can't get over the fact of campers, perhaps it's because you suck too much to counter them.

(And yes, if I happent to pick up a barret, I'll often find a good hiding spot to camp and snipe. It's amazing how long you can survive sometimes. Quite amazing, in fact; they KNOW exactly where I am when they respawn, and all they can think of is to blunder in front of my barret again and again?)

Yes.. you may call camping as a "different style of play".
But I still hate people that camp in deathmatch games just to be in #1 place and say: "I'm god, you all suck". I think this is a n00bish attitude.

The map jungle is a good example.
I was playing today and there was a friggin' guy camping the upper area. He was close to the spawn point (upper left) and close to a lot of health packs (above that "hole" area). So he just stayed close to the health packs.. shooting everybody in the respawn point and spamming grenades in the "hole" below him.

So the game ended and he made something like a 40/20 frags/deaths score.
And I'm pretty sure he was thinking: "damn I'm good!!".

The game took between 20 and 30 minutes and this guy just appeared in the lower part of the map when he respawned there. Other than that.. he was always camping the health packs and shooting the respawn point. Now I ask who's better: the guy that camps 30 minutes and gets the #1 spot or the guy that stays in 2nd or 3rd in the ranking but travels the whole map and engages the enemies in all sorts of battle even if there isn't a single health pack nearby??

DeMo: Yeah he was good. That camping spot is hardly invulnerable; just hover a little bit below is firing angle and lob a few grenades up there. Shoot a few M79 rounds up there. Hell, throw a knife up there. You might argue that the people who "traveled the whole map" would be better, but why? Moving around doesn't make you a better player, it just means you move around more. So yes, because he was able to camp in that spot, a sitting target, avoiding death and easily killing his opponents, in my opinion he was "better."

Then again, many people have different opinions on what skill is. To me, a skillful player utilizes the strategy which is best at defeating his opponents. If, in a certain situation, the best strategy is to camp, and the camping is done successfully, to me that is skill. Only if a strategy is completely indefeatable is the game ruined or skill questionable (for example, if there were a weapon which could instantly kill any player, no matter his locations on the map, for example some kind of wall-piercing railgun, then the game would be ruined because it would be the only weapon ever used and have no counter. There are very, very few camping situations which are completely foolproof.) I highly recommend the articles at http://www.sirlin.net about "Playing to Win." (As well as his other articles about game design.) They were very enlightening to me.

By the way, I can totally understand hating someone because of their snobbish, bad attitude. But in that case you have a problem with bad sportsmanship, not camping (I too hate bad sportsmanship.)

Damn right Roy, it is exactly my point of view. These, who played with me, knows that I don't snipe and I don't use the barret, because I have another style of play. But I like snipers. I was one of them in 1.1.2. Maybe I will be a sniper again, because it is more challenging in 1.2.

BTW... snipers are rarely on the top of the scores. It is almost impossible to be the first as a sniper, but it doesn't matter. For me as a sniper the most important was to have the best kills/deaths ratio. But it was a year ago...

I don't mind camping one bit, Infact I do it sometimes on certain levels. The levels where it is obvious it was ment for it. What I do hate is the Barret being used as a assualt weapon, that is being a noob. People who use it like that have no skill, and always think they are the best. No one respects them IMO.

quote:Originally posted by Famine
I don't mind camping one bit, Infact I do it sometimes on certain levels. The levels where it is obvious it was ment for it. What I do hate is the Barret being used as a assualt weapon, that is being a noob. People who use it like that have no skill, and always think they are the best. No one respects them IMO.


ROFLMAO

AGAIN with the no skill thing... to me, camping, depending on the gun and location, can be stupid or smart, for example, uhh, useing the sniper rifle in the belltower of a church (your gonna need a damn good sharpshooter for that in soldat) you can get your count of guys, but he can be taken down, the next german with a decently accurate rifle, spots you and you cant get him, you better duck, but going prone over the lump od debris with a smg next to a door is not smart, the next person who opens the door and biffsa nade, or evin Primes the nade in, your not getting out alive, ESPECALLY if they prime the nade in, but the barret, was just a stupid idea itself, mike shoulda took a good lesson from DOD on this one you should have to duck or prone to see the Xhair, but the people who just goin and pick one off, and run for his life every 2 seconds are the people who annoy me the most, ESPECALLY if its me half the time...

Everybody who surports campers with a sniper rifle, thanks because i do that a lot.[8D][:D]

Camping is for losers. It's ok to 'ambush' and 'defend', and even make a kill or two from the same position...but when you constantly stay in the same position, shooting at your enemy who has a minimum chance of killing you...that's camping at it's worst. And I mean not moving at all during the whole game.
Most of the time I just avoid players like that, and if I have a chance I sometimes spawnkill them because most of the time they do that to me).

After all soldat is an action game...not a sitting contest.

I remember in one game on Ctf_Death, which I personally hate, I was fooling around trying to kill people with fists and minigun, and barret.
I sat at the bottom and started to shooting people....damn that was so boring, it wans't even fun
I'll never understand campers

Bah, campers arent noobs, just map bugs.

Hey, if you can stay in one spot and kill everyone who comes near your flag technicly it is camping, but its bloody usefull isnt it? And if you can nab a good spot in deathmatch and kill alot of people who fall for the same trap over and over again then thats also good, what isnt though is sitting next to the spawn points killing everyone when they spawn because they have to wait afew seconds to select their gun or if they are lagged a little big, that is what is called being a "noob camper" the other two (Protecting the flag and finding a bottle neck of players in DeathMatch) are campers but arnt being noob's :P

Who is playing to win? I'm playing to have fun!
yeah of course, it is more fun to win but there is a BUT:
I would like others to have fun too. Being killed stupidly by someone who wasn't even near to witness is kind of boring. That's why I dont fly away with the minigun, then blindly shoot above, or throw grenades in holes like crazy all the time even if I'm not sure somebody is below. Now that's newbie's work. Camping is not that bad, if not everybody is doing it, wating for the others to stumble in their shooting line...

quote:Originally posted by Cruku
Camping is for losers. It's ok to 'ambush' and 'defend', and even make a kill or two from the same position...but when you constantly stay in the same position, shooting at your enemy who has a minimum chance of killing you...that's camping at it's worst. And I mean not moving at all during the whole game.
Most of the time I just avoid players like that, and if I have a chance I sometimes spawnkill them because most of the time they do that to me).

After all soldat is an action game...not a sitting contest.

Let me requote that;I DEFEND MY TEAMS FLAG WITH A SNIPER RIFLE.

quote:Originally posted by neokenchen
quote:Originally posted by Cruku
Camping is for losers. It's ok to 'ambush' and 'defend', and even make a kill or two from the same position...but when you constantly stay in the same position, shooting at your enemy who has a minimum chance of killing you...that's camping at it's worst. And I mean not moving at all during the whole game.
Most of the time I just avoid players like that, and if I have a chance I sometimes spawnkill them because most of the time they do that to me).

After all soldat is an action game...not a sitting contest.

Let me requote that;I DEFEND MY TEAMS FLAG WITH A SNIPER RIFLE.


Let me requote that: Im an idiot.

quote:Originally posted by Slamex
That's why I dont fly away with the minigun, then blindly shoot above, or throw grenades in holes like crazy all the time even if I'm not sure somebody is below. Now that's newbie's work.

you described me and I am a newbie, can I show what newbies can do? My msn is palloco@hotmail.com if you wanna duel.

[;)]Sometimes I like killing them hehe!

quote:Originally posted by neokenchen
I will like to know the age-old question in on-line games, "Are campers n00bs?".

Why are you asking if you already knew a thread existed? Use the search button, you dumbass.

I am not an idiot... I am a higherpower controlling this scrawny little geek until Yamila Diaz comes around... that's all... I am only a voice telling the world it is becoming evident that whe you shoot someone unexpectedly, it is INSTANT SELF GRATIFICATION IN THE FORM OF PIXILATED MINI PEOPLE. God I'm good.

quote:Originally posted by palloco
quote:Originally posted by Slamex
That's why I dont fly away with the minigun, then blindly shoot above, or throw grenades in holes like crazy all the time even if I'm not sure somebody is below. Now that's newbie's work.

you described me and I am a newbie, can I show what newbies can do? My msn is palloco@hotmail.com if you wanna duel.


Well I'm not interested: that would not be enjoyable. Well, maybe except for you... if all you need to have fun is to see "You Killed Slamex" after spitting bullets and grenades in my general direction, at a two screens distance.[:-blindfold]

Who said I was gonna using minigun? I just wanna chainsaw you!

mmmmmm chainsaw... now there's where the real skill is :p

lol all i do is sit in a bush wait till sumone comes shoot him then keep moving...
i dont camp...
i suppose i ambush but just one target then i move on...still the call me a camper...
lol people are so dumb...
i dont care if sumone camps after a while u know exactly where they are.. and bang..
a good camper like satys in the same spot for like twokills then moves to a diferent spot ec ect ect
aaaa well shall we ever know the answer?

quote:lol all i do is sit in a bush wait till sumone comes shoot him then keep moving...
i dont camp...
quote:a good camper like satys in the same spot for like twokills then moves to a diferent spot ec ect ect

a good "SNIPER" stays in the same spot for like two kills then moves to a diferent spot.
MuD did this to me all the time when he started DOD, now he regrets it :P

In DM and where your alone, camping is well, camping, its stupid, but wheres there teamwork, camping could save your team, and the game, but like i sait, hiding in a tiny room, isnt smart if some decides to prime a nade in, in soldat tho, you dont ever have to prime a nade, just gotta plan and aim good.