I believe in Jesus, I believe He died for me and all of you. I belive He died and rose agian, and that He loves all of you even if you mock him and call Him dead.

Hmmm, you should go to psychiatrist. Believing that dead can rose again is bad for health

[IMAGE]

t, good for you.

I believe that my dog is a martian. I believe that she flies at nights, but always comes back in the morning. I also believe that cows can read. I don't care what anybody says, because i have FAITH.

Let me stick my faith and everybody's face. And then go to war about it. Screw faith, it never did any good to anybody.

quote:Originally posted by BMF
I also believe that cows can read.

yeah cows can also talk with eatchother and they are prepairing a big invasion deep under the ground and they are building weapons there, weapons we have never even dreamed of and...and....and.............sounds kinda wierd does it? but it's written in a book! and if it's written it's true!

quote:Originally posted by ?
I believe in Jesus, I believe He died for me and all of you. I belive He died and rose agian, and that He loves all of you even if you mock him and call Him dead.
"Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord..." (II Cor. 6:17).

the lord says to seperate yourself from these sinners. sorry dude, no more soldat for you.

OMG morph, ure quoting from the bible in the wrong context..

the Bible doesnt contain Historical or scientific truths, it does hoewever have moral and religious truths in it.. when the bible says : moses lived to be 700 odd years old, you dont take that literally! its just the authors way of saying for a really long time...

quote:screw faith,it never did any good to nobody

having a belief or faith in the fact that there is something greater than what we can see and perceive on this earth/in our lives does infact have a positive efeect on us because we are then comforted in the knowledge that our lives have a purpose and that there is life after we die..
religion provides us with safety.

a while ago, Pope JPII deceided that it is crucial for all christians to learn, pay attention & respect other world religions such as islam, judaism, hinduism & buddhism because we can learn and benefit from their teachings.. almost all religions have the same base principles by which they abide by..love, care for one another and good deeds.

BMF, christians did go to war for their faith in early medievil times.. we have changed since then, its true that early church was a corrupt little turd, with the priests,bishops and popes etc all looking for ways in which to better their own social standing rather than looking out for their congregations... [:-censored]s! the church has recognised the mistakes it has made over the years and is now attempting to rebuild itself after all the shi.t thats happened recently..

in conclusion: faith.. like it or not.. is beneficial to all of us.. it provides us with a set of moral and social belief structures while also offering us comfort.

Black Spear: I believe there is a Flash video on that! You should be searching! I saw it about a month ago.

morpheus: very true!!!

-I don't like this thread, mocking Jesus. I'm a christian person, this thread will only be a bashing thread for religions...

how is that out of context? it's pretty clear to me:

2 Corinthians 6:14-17 "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: 'I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people. Therefore come out from them and be separate,' says the Lord."

so, like i said, the lord says to seperate yourself from these sinners. sorry dude, no more soldat for you.

Hey there is three threads in The Lounge now mocking Jesus, but I am not allowed my view on the subject?

o yeah btw
quote:BMF, christians did go to war for their faith in early medievil times

That was actually Catholics, but Christians and Catholics have been put under the same title, although there is a difference in belief some do believe the same thing but as a whole Catholics and Christians are not the same.

sure, but once you're done, remember,

Luke 9:5
And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.

taking that like you say morpheus, that means that, say, a large percentage of the world wouldnt be allowed to go outside at all

so obviously, thats a pretty stupid thing to say

By that same logic, I shouldn't go to school because there are sinners there. Should I hide in my house and not talk to anybody who isn't a christian? Wait, I guess I shouldn't be posting in this largely non-christian forum... You are mis-interpreting the text.

... Anyway, for the record I am a christian. It's good to know that there are other christians on this forum (Mossy).

how's it stupid and how's it misinterpreted? explain. take it and disect it and show me what's misinterpreted and what's stupid.

don't just make a statement, back it up.

How about ya'll stfu and worship me!

lol Morph i wud look those passages up... cept i dont have a bible handy like you...

bugger

www.biblegateway.com --- there ya go

"and that He loves all of you even if you mock him and call Him dead."
rotfl sounds like something outta southpark

i once talked to a farmer about something, in the middle of our argument a bat came flying above us.
this farmer said, poor beast. I asked why? in response he told me that when rats grow old they get blind and grow wings and become bats.
after hearing that, One Gram's bullshiet is obsolete.

t, good job. I don't believe in Jesus, but if you do, then I wont make fun of you. But...why post it here?

lol weed i really fail to see the connection between that "interesting" story and T

quote:why post it here?
Why not? Really they have had alot of threads bashing all religion, why not make a positive one. Funny thing is that even though I showed no anger or tried to force anything on anyone, I just made a statement on what I believe and a good word. Yet all I get is anger.

good for you, why not? i guess you were expecting a lot of crap for it though.

quote:moses lived to be 700 odd years old, you dont take that literally!

for those that know there are many different christians. some take thigs literally (like my best friend).
some say it needs to be reinterpreted for modern life. some are a mix of both.
to be honest, does it really matter? its more the motivation behind it, and the way they choose to live their life.

personally, i have nothing at all against christians, i just enjoy a good debate. unfortunately, i doubt i'll get that here. no one can back up there statements, which, they should be able to, if they followed god's word:

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

and i'm not trying to be mean or anything, but if you really think about it, christians can't even agree with themselves. that's why there's so many different christian denominations, preaching different view points and doctrines. so why should i expect anything more than answers like "misinterpreting, stupid, and wrong context?"

the bottom line: put or shut up.

quote:That was actually Catholics

sorry bub, ure wrong.. the crusades or holy wars led by the church, were prior to the reformation and schism periods..


the First Crusade was launched in 1096 CE.

split in the christian church began in the 14th-16th centuries

so... CHRISTIAN![;)]

hmmm
its very fun what you say...
actually the medieval church was less corrupted then now.
back then, they would execute "heretics" as they would call them.
now adays they do it on the shadows...
btw, its funny how the church aint corrupted at all...
"and that was Job D:17... Brother Stewart, please pass the Donations plate"
and then you see your "padre" driving his jaguar with his 2 japanesse hookers... what a life you have, believer i mean, paying money for your religion... if that aint corrupted and abusive then you live in a fuken Igloo in the middle of Siberia.

lol weed ure so comical...

have u any idea where the donations from the collections plate goes?
charity, the running of the church itself and to the diocese..

what do u think.. GOD somehow pays the electricity and water bills?
pfft,

it would be quite astonishing to find one society or group of people on this earth that are COMPLETELY exempt from corruption..
we dont live in a utopian society and it would be foolish to think that we do..
you cannot allow 1 bad apple to spoil your entire perception of faith itself..


so morph.. that corinthians quote you added in... are u saying that the soldat community is the devil? it is darkness? it is the people of sin?

that passage ----> 2 Corinthians 6:17 is talking about how good people cannot be associated with those who belong to darkness.. "what harmony can ther be between Christ and the Devil"

that passage is instructing us to turn away from everything that is wrong whether of body or spirit, instructing us to purify ourselves giving ourselves to God alone. It is telling us not to be led astray.


Luke 9:5 --- same thing.. youd have to admit that the soldat community is just one big bunch of sinful individuals of darkness, in order for your idea to be proved true..


:)

*Remains Neutral*

From where I come from, almost everyone is a believer in one given monothesetic religion (A.K.A Judiasm, Christianity, or Islam). I stopped believing in god by myself back in 5th grade. My reasons are my own views of it.

But with time you learn how not to offend others who have their views on certain things. Faith is faith, for good or bad, its what it is. Dont offend people for no necessary reason about their faith. Nobody came and shoved the bible down your throats and told you to believe in Jesus or burn in hell, well, at least not on this board. I suggest you all learn some manners.

*applause*

here here

quote:Originally posted by gi.joe
Luke 9:5 --- same thing.. youd have to admit that the soldat community is just one big bunch of sinful individuals of darkness, in order for your idea to be proved true..


nope. from your perspective, it would have been ok for Lot to stay in Sodom & Gomorrah because his family was there. and we both know what would have happened if he'd had stayed. he would of been toast.

quote:BMF, christians did go to war for their faith in early medievil times.. we have changed since then, its true that early church was a corrupt little turd, with the priests,bishops and popes etc all looking for ways in which to better their own social standing rather than looking out for their congregations... s! the church has recognised the mistakes it has made over the years and is now attempting to rebuild itself after all the shi.t thats happened recently..
Yeah, I agree. They rebuild themselves by raping altar boys.

Anyway, i am too tired to read anymore of this crap. You believe in God, good for you. Just leave me out of it.

lol morph ure well learned in teh Bible
damn j00!
BAH!

with Lots family, they deceided to associate themselves with the people of sin and evil.. hence they were no longer in union with God..

it is the same underlining message with the Luke and Corinthian passages.


i can tell youre not going to let this debate go THAT easily so i eagerly (lol im such a loser :P) await ure reply.

quote:Originally posted by gi.joe
with Lots family, they deceided to associate themselves with the people of sin and evil.. hence they were no longer in union with God..
lot lived there, therefore you'd have to conclude that he also associated himself with those people, considering the fact that tradition at that point in time put men in the role of breadwinner (job, hunter, etc), and women (wife, 2 daughters) took care of household chores along with the livestock. yet he was still told to get out.

note: he did have the option of moving to a different village(abraham's) before any of this ever happened, but chose to remain in sodom and gomorra. he had to be told to get out before he actually would, and then it was under life threatening circumstances at that.

hmmm.... im not quite sure what youre actually trying to say.....

quote:Originally posted by Mossy
Black Spear: I believe there is a Flash video on that! You should be searching! I saw it about a month ago.

there seems to be a flash movie about ANYTHING, just made that up in my stoned mind....

basically, it goes like this: by participating and condoning (you'd have to condone to participate) you're not willing to leave behind the immoral worldly things that you were commanded to leave behind. you're still holding on.

Humans were not commanded to leave behind all wordly things at all... in the book of genesis it says:


" and God blessed them and told them, multiply and fill this earth and subdue it; you are masters of fish birds and all the animals. "

would you have us believe that by participating, and living life itself, we are disobeying Gods commanments?
of course we are still holding on. I would have to know the answer to the unanswerable question that has plagued humanity since the dawn of time in order to prove a point... why are we here?

" and God blessed them and told them, multiply and fill this earth and subdue it; you are masters of fish birds and all the animals. "

and this was said when?

Genesis... the 5th day

creation of man

before sin came into the world? before the new covenant? before there was anything to "come out of?"

Genesis 1:28 "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." KVJ

eh made that post while I was still thinking about mine
quote:before sin came into the world? before the new covenant? before there was anything to "come out of?"
All that verse is saying is to mulitply and take care of the animals, plain and simple.


quote:the bottom line: put or shut up.
Yeah we may not know all about the Bible, but its not a sin to not know all about the Bible. I honestly know less than I want to admit but I know people that would make you look like an idiot three year old morpheus.

quote:personally, i have nothing at all against christians, i just enjoy a good debate
Yeah..
quote:the lord says to seperate yourself from these sinners. sorry dude, no more soldat for you
am I sure most people that want to have a good debate tell the other person to leave as their opening statement.

"am I sure most people that want to have a good debate tell the other person to leave as their oopening statement."

lmao.. that was a joke.. lighten up.

Don't contradict yourself bub..

i'm not. and don't take my words out of context, or "mis interpret them" as it seems is the only defense here.

Hey buddy take a joke..

O btw contradicting is not misinterpreting things or taking words out of context bub.
Check the dictionary
To assert or express the opposite of (a statement).
To deny the statement of.
To be contrary to; be inconsistent with.

so do you want to take a stab at what joe's trying to prove, or quote the dictionary?

I wasn't really paying attention to what anyone was trying to prove on this thread but myself. I made this thread to prove that alot of people in these forums will try to force their way of thinking on anyone that dissagrees with them.

true. that's why i like a debate. it helps both sides see the other's perspective.

The sides are extreme different though, a small group and the rest of the forum people, and most of the people tend to not listen and just flame.

lol morph, im npot quite sure what youre trying to prove.. that because we are christians, we shudnt play soldat?

thats what i thought u were getting at...

no, it started out as a joke to ? and turned into this.

yeah ok but what were you actualy trying to prove in this debate?

Actually, the Bible does contain a number of scientific truths far before the majority came to accept them as a common belief.

"There is one dwelling above the circle of the earth-.." - Isaiah 40:22
Here, the word circle can be commonly rendered sphere from the original text. Please note when Isaiah was written:732 B.C.E. Thats a long time before most people realised the earth was round... but it was in the Bible. =p

This isnt much of a debate, more like a discussion about the meanings of the Bible...I've had 8 years in Catholic school, which was a French monastary a long time ago. Once they accepted only Christian girls, now they accept everyone. That enabled alot of variety. Since Israeli Arabs, in particular, belong to a number of religions, this let me have insights into all 3. I've read parts of the Bible, the Koran, and the Tanah. They are all basically the same. Sometimes people tend to say that others misinterpret the context of the holy scripture, when at the same time there isnt much proof of misinterpretation.

When Christianity was young, for example, almost everyone took the writings in the Bible literally, some still do, where the roots go a long way back (Israel). Now since new scientific discoveries are conflicting with Biblical scripture if taken literally, more and more people come to take the exemplimentary path.

Other than that, I've had my share of how twisted the church really was at the start, and of editings of the Bible to serve national interests and such, but these are now strongly denied, as they always were for centuries.

I'm sorry that the Catholics ruined your impression of Christianity, but that's no reason to desert it completely...

its very nice...
funny how ppl ask others to be more understanding about their their religion when they cant respect other's religions.
religion as i said before, and i wont get into it again, is holding humanity back (i wont talk about it now anyway).
everything looks quite fine as long as someone blongs to a religion...
so tell me, whats wrong about sects? what was so wrong about Charles Manson?
for them it was their religion, sects believe in different things, and yet, they are "outlawed" and banned in most places, why is that?
its kinda funny that someone's "faith" needs to belong to one of the big/known religions.
you can say im jewish, i will say it myself, but im really an Atheist, you can look at the bible as a holy document, i will look at it as an unholy weapon of mass destruction.
you can look at the donations on churches as a way to keep them up, i will look at that as a way of fooling blind believers.
and you can look up at your so called "god" and believe on him, but i will just see someone who believes he isnt good enough by himself, he needs to pray to reach heaven, he needs to be a good religious to be loved by his "god", where is the self love in all this? is your self respect so low that you make yourself believe you are ruled by a mighty power?
these things will be never easy for me to understand, and they will never go away, neither will "holy wars" and all the things that religion causes.

i suppose this could all go back to the beginning of the world

if there is no God, then whered the universe come from? and PLEASE do not mention the Big Bang, its such a pathetic theory that its not even worth talking about

quote:Originally posted by BManx2000
I'm sorry that the Catholics ruined your impression of Christianity, but that's no reason to desert it completely...


Its not that I actually deserted it, as I was never really a part of it. My parents come from different backgrounds and different religions, they felt that they shouldnt decide the religion of their children without them being mature enough to be aware of it. So they let me chose, I just didnt, and now I know even more why.

If I was Christian, I'd still have stopped believing in God anyway, my mother (which is in the Christian part of the family) isnt Catholic, she's protestant.

Worm: I cant really prove right or wrong any theory about how the world began. It may seem very wierd and stupid to you that a big bang happened and created the galaxies and such, but for me, the idea of having this random diety going about and creating this world for no obvious reason is even more wierd.

In the end we can all crack our heads on brick walls trying to figure out how it all started, but I dont think it should be held in that measure of high regard, I look at what we have now to prove it, I look at how any religion should make me, as a person, believe in it. And *personally* have found nothing worth of my faith yet.

quote:Originally posted by wormdundee
if there is no God, then whered the universe come from? and PLEASE do not mention the Big Bang, its such a pathetic theory that its not even worth talking about


LOL, and where did God come from?

0=+1+(-1)
There you have the reason of big bang. Nothing became something and antisomething

All religious are suckers or ignorants

quote:Originally posted by wormdundee
and PLEASE do not mention the Big Bang, its such a pathetic theory that its not even worth talking about


HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
...w8, i still had not enough...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!111one

Drop dead. Now. And STFU. Thanks.

quote:Originally posted by Weed
these things will be never easy for me to understand, and they will never go away, neither will "holy wars" and all the things that religion causes.
personally, i don't see religion causing anything. more so, the abuse or misuse of it by people who, more or less, need a "reason" to do wrong things.

yeah, i was sure you would say that Morpheus, but you have to understand, religion is a great power, if the pope says everyone should walk around naked, all the hardcore believers will.
all those actors who make more ignorant ppl believe that god is strong by faking being on a trance on those religious tv shows.
cmon, miss-use and abuse of power existed since power existed, when you have a democracy, the goverment will pull its power to the extreme, when you have religion, religious leaders will pull it to the extreme.
power cant be stoped, power exists to be abused.
Religion was created as a way of explaining things at first, on biblic times it was already a way of controling the citizens of your empire. or do you think an English king would have a happy kingdom if he said he doesnt believe in god and in the holy church? take a look at the crusades, inquistion, holy wars, terrorist attacks, religious TV shows, holydays becoming a way to encourage massive consuming on shopping malls. every power is being abused, you can blame it on ignorance, religion, democracy, you can even blame it on Marco Polo for bringing fire powder into europe in one of his trips, but as long as power exists, the "holders" of the power will gather around it like bugs around a lamp.
corruption comes hand by hand with power, no one makes anything for the "good" of humanity, they only do it for themselves.
government doesnt work for free, they "help" their ppl for a wealthy salary, try to find some politician who works for free, no one does.
and the problem is once again the power and its abuse, in this case its the power of knowledge abusing the less powered by knowledge ignorants, ignorant ppl are easier to rule then smart idealistic ppl.
same as religion, as long as you believe some "god" created you, and when someone from your family dies, first thing a representative of this "god" will say "god wanted him closer to him" or some total crap. but yet, if you are a believer, you will nod your head and go pray.

as for Wormdundee... sad, just sad. i prefer believing on something that sounds way more natural, like a star exploding after it died and turning into many pieces of materials, then believing that some "omnipotent" being created all that we know. forgive me, but i prefer to think that i can control my life, as i said before, seems that religious and believers enjoy being slaves to this so called "god" they tend to believe in.
i can tell to myself that maybe we are some way more advanced alien race's experiment, just putting a bunch of bacteria in an abithable world, and see how they turn out to be, i will find it even more believable if they made us just to create a funky reality TV show. better then believing in some "god".
trying to explain the creation of the world by quoting the bible is as stupid as trying to make an apple pie with bananas.

well, the way i see it, we all (more or less) have free will, and (hopefully) common sense. now if a guy were to tell me, "go blow yourself up along with 10 infidels and you'll go to heaven and get 7 virgins to screw for all eternity" i'd be asking him why he didn't do that if it were really true. why doesn't he go out in a blaze of glory as a martyr and live happily ever after? simply put, because he's full of sh!t, and he knows it. but, i suppose some people's existance is so pathetic that they'll believe anything to take the easy way out.

then you've got the ones who refuse to take responsibility for themselves and their actions. take for instance the mother who killed her kids a while back, then said that god told her to do it. the bottom line is, she couldn't handle the pressure of being a parent, but at the same time, she refused to accept responsibility for what she did. so what happens? "god told me to do it, so i did."

in both instances here, a choice was made, and in both instances religious beliefs were used as an excuse to make those choices. but, it all boils down to one's choices, and nothing more.

but those choices were given to them by religion in a way.
the terrorist you first mentioned was raised to be a martyr, all his life he was trained to be a killing machine moved only by the hatred forced into him by the "teachers".
the second one was a crazy biatch for sure, she killed her kids coz god told her, that means she is insane right? what if it doesnt? maybe god really told her to kill them, if he exists, why wouldnt he?

I is awed by yo bible knowledge[:O]
I will say no mo'

quote:Originally posted by Weed
but those choices were given to them by religion in a way.
the terrorist you first mentioned was raised to be a martyr, all his life he was trained to be a killing machine moved only by the hatred forced into him by the "teachers".
the second one was a crazy biatch for sure, she killed her kids coz god told her, that means she is insane right? what if it doesnt? maybe god really told her to kill them, if he exists, why wouldnt he?
i can only speak for myself, but i have a tendency to question things before accepting anything as fact or fiction. just like i said in the case of the terrorist, common sense "should" prevail. if someone told me i'd go to heaven for killing, i'd ask why they weren't out there doing it, instead of trying to talk other people into doing it. that in itself should be a huge warning signal that this person is full of it. yet some people are dumb enoughto believe it.

now if you say, problems are caused due to peoples ignorance of basing solutions their on religious beliefs, i could go for that. but (from the way i understand what you're saying) saying that problems are caused by religion itself (being mainly nothing more than ideas that one has the choice to act upon or not act upon) then it just doesn't seem feasible.

basically what i'm saying is, religion may be at the root of, say a terrorist act, but religion didn't put a gun to the terrorist's head and force him to do anything. he made his own choice.

quote:if the pope says everyone should walk around naked, all the hardcore believers will.
not quite... the Pope isnt infallable
that for God alone.

quote:no one makes anything for the "good" of humanity, they only do it for themselves.
is that religions problem or mans?

quote:All religious are suckers or ignorants

"ignorant"
... hmmm... right.... ignorant...

GJ, Gijoe, you are the typical ignorant, thx for pointing that fact.

Well Morpheus.
i am saying miss-interpreted the holy writings of their religions.
no one puts a gun on the terrorists heads and forces them to make terrorist attacks? its called social pressure. young palestinians are socialy pressed into hating israel, into blowing themsevles in public places.
so they are somehow pushed by the holders of religion.
and as for that "common sence", well, the terrorist leaders normaly die by the hands of their hated ones (as you can see lately with those 2 hammas leaders who got assasinated), but they still reach heaven, because they SEND the terrorists, they plan the attacks.
Osama Bin Laden thinks he will reach heaven, even tho he killed ppl by himself only on the Afghanistan vs the soviet union, but supposedly the terrorists leaders get some better places in heaven.
so yes, religion is the reason for many wars, for cultural differences and problems, for the falling of empires.

btw, GI joe, keep trying.