- Modified hit point power ratio:
head shot was: 110% is: 120%
torso shot is: 100%
leg shot was: 80% is: 90%

Before I start this post properly, I'm just making sure that this isn't about weapon balance, it's about the hit point power ratios.

I did bring this up months ago when 1.2 was first released, and my views haven't changed. Soldat's are a few pixels high. You can't realistically aim for the head, or wherever, you aim for the whole Soldat.

This means that if there are two players against each other of near equal skill, than the person who is higher than the other will always win. This is because one will be shooting down at the head, whilst the other will be shooting up at the legs. The difference in hit points using the same weapon is 30%. (Not to mention the ever-so-slight fake gravitational effects on the bullets.)

So, what do I think should change...?

I believe that these hit point power ratios should be scrapped. (Or at least reduced to maybe 105/100/95.) I don't really see a positive side to them. I think that removing them (back to 1.05b style as it were) would be better for everyone, as it will require a least a bit more skill than jetting over the top of someone and firing down. It also plays a crucial role in many maps, where the higher person has a clear advantage.

Your thoughts.

*Cold Fusion*

I concur!

i also concur.

Nice idea

I dont. I like the whole goal of those 1 on 1 situations to be higher than your enemy, and although the target is small, it is still possible to aim for the higher part of the body rather than the lower part.. That's what having good aim really is.. you notice people using autos that are better than the rest cos they always aim for the head.. It's not just about a race to the top.. this is done when players are completely level with each other.

yeah and ban the mp5 ¬_¬

good idea, i concur.

I don't like this I'm always trying to aim for the ehad if you ban this you will just get more barretards again this is our only advatage to them let us atleast have that

can we just stfu with the barret sh!t

i dont like it. you can easily shoo for the head. if yer just shooting for the soldat, there's a reason i own you. try killing with ruger, aim for head. youll see how you can make difference.
100 against.

I CONCUR

Concur, I do not. Agree, I do. :P

I concur to disconcur. Leave things as they be.

i conquer. XD

If it bothers you that much stay above them..:P I think we should leave it as is, i don't see any point to change this. It adds another element in fighting that you must be aware of.

i um......guys? whats concur mean?

(agree)

as forshooting down on someone, this is the basic principle of every game that gives a "high ground advantage." Obviously if you are shooting down on someone it gives you an advantage, usually a better chance at popping them in the head. And the higher percentage thing, this keeps the entire game more realistic. Last time i checked, getting shot in the head kills IRL. Plus, we all know how many hits tend not to register in a normal game, so these higher percentages compensate for that. My reccomendation: be accurate and try to get above ppl.
-Brick

Well, this would be considerably good for knife users.. because if you hit someone in the leg with the knife it would be instant kill.

But I don't concur. It helps everyone I guess, but you'll die faster whatever you do..
and the whole point of one-on-one is that you try and get above your opponent. And in this game bullets react to gravity, same with the knife. You shoot downwards, your bullets go faster.

I SAY NAY!

then it's agreed. this idea is toast.

i like 2 keep the the hs damage the way its is. i always aim 4 head.i like jettin over someone with my auto and sprayin their head full of bullets.

I personally like this idea.

If damage was equal from whatever angle you're shot at, the game would become a more 360 degree experience. Think about it... no longer could you just stand the high ground and pummel an approaching foe with equal aim knowing for every shot he'll die sooner, and then just run back for a medikit. From every angle you'll be at equal danger now. Hugging the ground would become more important and useful, as zipping as high as possible in the sky is no longer an advantage.

quote:I hate the medkit, maybe there should be an option to scrap that...

back on topic, i like the realism of the head/leg damage differences. i rucroc (reverse concur)

EDIT: LOL, NEW PAGE!

quote:Originally posted by sativa
I don't like this I'm always trying to aim for the ehad if you ban this you will just get more barretards again this is our only advatage to them let us atleast have that


People need to realise that its not barrets that are the problem anymore. I hardly see any barret users when im playing now. At least when you faced barrets you had a chance you would survive, now you face 3 auto users defending and there is absolutly no chance you can survive at all. Its just annoying.

i think its fun, 'specially when your head flys! *whaches fave demo where the head flys real far after being AK.ed to death...*

nay

agree

k, soz had to say sommin

did you not hear me? THIS THREAD IS OVER!!! XD
well the way it is now promotes more concentration on the target. if yer shooting him in legs, you know yer doing something wrong. but if you hit him in face with ruger, and it';s the same as hit getting shot in the foot, then you know something's wrong with the game.

but soldat isnt meant to be realistic. Thats why there are seperate modes for REALISM and NON REALISM.

quote:Originally posted by peemonkey
did you not hear me? THIS THREAD IS OVER!!! XD
well the way it is now promotes more concentration on the target. if yer shooting him in legs, you know yer doing something wrong. but if you hit him in face with ruger, and it';s the same as hit getting shot in the foot, then you know something's wrong with the game.


Oi, don't say when my thread is over bish. [:D]

"if yer shooting him in legs, you know yer doing something wrong." In most cases, this is because you are actually below the other guy and the terrain doesn't ALLOW you to get above him. 30% just because you're at the top end of the tunnel is just ridiculously unfair.

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Moving onto some people's realism arguments, Soldat isn't supposed to be that much of a realistic game. Pretty much covers of all of them.

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Saying it would be good or not good for other weapons is mute, as if it is implemented, it would probably do so with the weapon editor. Values can then be adjusted more easily.

You must remember, that if you're going one-on-one on flat ground, then it's perfectly justified to get above them in order to get an advantage. You'll be pushing them away, and cause more damage due to gravity making the bullets faster/slower. You shouldn't be given a FURTHER advantage. 30% + gravity is massive. It should be greatly reduced/scrapped to give a more entertaining fight where the better player should come out on top.

there are no possible size changers of ppls n e way, and play lagrande if u want no flight and highness, and im whit peemonkey, lock this... its just a way of geting more posts....

I Concur.....

The idea has good and bad points. I really don't know which way to go. Reducing or getting rid of the advantage would make the game more 'fair,' but not as interesting. Either way, I really don't notice the advantage. I'm the kind of player that runs through and tries to kill anything along the way. If I don't, then I leave them injured and move on.

quote:Originally posted by Unlucky 13
lock this... its just a way of geting more posts....


Thats the kind of thing that annoys me about this community, people post ideas and they get flamed for it.

You can't say lock this post just because of some comments of some people that make up a fraction of the soldat community.

I say its a good idea, people really do try to aim for head shots, considering with the lag and all that when u probably did hit their head it would not register as a headshot (much like being hit by an m79 but not dying because it doesn't register as it being a hit).

Just makes the game fairer if u get rid of these damage ratios.

quote:Originally posted by Unlucky 13
there are no possible size changers of ppls n e way, and play lagrande if u want no flight and highness, and im whit peemonkey, lock this... its just a way of geting more posts....

stfu

hey,
i agree with what some have previously said -- WORST SUGGESTION EVER.

the entire benefit of the damage system is THAT it creates a low/high dynamic -- being above your enemy gives you an advantage. yes, there's maybe no real-life equivalent, but in terms of gameplay this is a VERY important aspect of soldat since it adds another level of strategy.

if damage was equal everywhere, it would remove this nuance and the gameplay would suffer. two people fighting would just stand there and empty clips into each other, instead of dancing around each other dogfight-style trying to gain the "upper" hand in terms of position.

raigan
p.s - even if you're not above someone it's not hard to hit them in the head; the little guys always stand upright so just aim in front of/above a bit. geez!!

guys in real life the higher person has more advanage.

..

enough 'this is what it's like in real life' crap for a start. Theres a realism mode, complete with life like jetboots and miniguns that don't do jack.

The way it is right now is quite 'strategic'. People dance around one another trying to keep their vulnerable top-side out of reach from the enemy.

But consider this instead as a limitation for a moment... only one ideal angle of sucessful attack, only one area of vulnerability... why not even it all out, and adjust this strategic element to benefit whoever uses the terrain and element of suprise from whichever angle best?

quote:Originally posted by b0rg
guys in real life the higher person has more advanage.

this is exactly why poeple who have low posts count shouldn't be allow in here

lol, Hey! Just cause you have the highest post count doesn't mean that you can say that! How are newbies supposed to join then? >_>

quote:Originally posted by Niff
Well, this would be considerably good for knife users.. because if you hit someone in the leg with the knife it would be instant kill.


No, wether or not a knife kills someone all depends on the velocity of the knife. It has nothing to do with what part of the body you hit. ( I know because i've tested it out)

-----------------------------------------

Anyway, you people keep on going on about what's 'fair' and what 'advantages people tend to have over others in certain situations.. but that's what the game's all about! If everything was completely balanced all the time the game would be feckin boring! DONT YOU GET IT? YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO TAKE ADVANTAGES OF OTHER PEOPLE'S ERRORS! If you find yourself in a ditch and someone flies over you, and has a n over-head advantage on you.. HARD LUCK, watch where the [:-censored] you're going next time.

I just always aim for the head. I say keep it as it is.

I agree Hektik
but,
the Hit point power rations should stay in realistic mode...

Hmm, Myself and Cold Fusion did some testing. Here are the results:

MP5 = Kills in 5 head shots, 6 body shots, 6 Leg shots (0.5 seconds to kill)
AK = Kills in 5 Head Shots, 5 Body Shots (0.8666 Seconds to kill)
Steyr = Kills in 7 head shots, 8 Body Shots (0.888 Seconds to kill)
Minimi = Kills in 4 head shots, 5 Body Shots (~0.5 Seconds to kill)
Desi = Kills in 2 head shots, 3 Body Shots (0.6-1 Seconds to kill)
Socom = Kills in 4 head shots, 5 Body Shots (0.8-1 Seconds to kill)

Also as a note, its worth saying that these were done standing still, and since 1.2 added more damage the faster you are travelling, the times to kill go down drastically.

Think for a minute, you are entering a base in a clanwar, Faced with 3 autos. What is the chance you are going to live based on those facts?

In Conclusion, I say nerf the socom :P

sh!t happens

Hektik, now take into account lag. Lag provokes a hitpower decrease. For example knife headshot does not kill always with 300 ping (with a static enemy.)

considering that socom's velocity doesn't change all that much because of its low starting bullet velocity, the other Auto weapons has a great advantage over Socom, because if you can move fast enough, those 5-7 shots could only take you 3-4 shots to kill, if you shoot the head.

I use the AK as my main weapon, and i have to say, without the hitpoint ratio, i would probably be the trophy of some barreter alot more times. This advantage is for the auto users, to distangiush them from the spraying noobs to the actual aiming elites.

the socom bit was a joke, in case you cant tell :P

Don't be hatin' on the soccom now. I agree with what was just said...go for the head and make your shots count. It's just so much more fun, regardless...I mean come on..headshots!

quote:Originally posted by Tha Doggfather
yeah and ban the mp5 ¬_¬


f*ck you ban the barret!

i dont like the idea, i know ur point but i like the game w/ it

go to "no barrett" servers if you hate the barrett! and also, the minimi is stronger than that (1 hit-1 kill head shot downhill), just slow

Indeed..no need to drag this into a barret bashing thread. This is all about the hit points, in all fairness. At least we agree...but we disagree...wierd. Or not.

the ratios mean that better players have an advantage over [:-censored] players....ISNT THAT THE POINT!?!? if you dont know how to stay above your opponent, practice! the ratios makes playing more challenging. im all for the ratios...

I definatly don't agree to the suggestion :

It's just what makes more skill diffrences in soldat , good aim and a sense for tactical benefits ( fun to use words you'r not sure if they're right)
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quote:guys in real life the higher person has more advanage
you can't compare a game to real life , in reallife there is no hud where you can read your hitpoints , and calculate how many bullets ur going to survive . don't look at real-life , look at what gives more strategic options , and what brings more weapon balance to the game.
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About the barret ... ( i know people are probably gonna hate me for bringing back this discussion)

If people nag because u'r barreting , see it as positive comment : u'r aim is (damn) good. But , ... the problem with barret is that , your only chance is if he misses , no matter how pro you are (except when your also using a "one shot death" - weapon ) . So please think about the fun of other people stop using it when they nag about it or when you feel your not giving em much chance.

sativa once posted a suggestion for the barret , to make it more like a ruger...
quote:I haven't got anything against barret but they shouldimplant a second barret just the ruger but with scope and get rid of the m82a1 cause for the reason a m82a1 .50cal is used as an anti tank sniper rifle not for humans just get the ruger with 10 bullets a bit slower firing rate and a scope and make it a psg or msg-90


I'd totally agree with this suggestion for the barret

Lets just keep it like it is. If Michal accepts this idea, then Soldat will be BOOOOOOOORING!! It will turn the game into piece of poop. Its always exciting to know who will have the upper hand while yur trying to fly above him, before him. And if someone gets to be upper, than just toss some grenades and he'll fly away, although it depends how far he is, or if yur using m79 or law. Or try to then get shelter or keep running zigzag etc.

I say the damage ratios stay.