Thats right muchachos, the news has come back round to 'that' topic again. A theory as old as the word 'videogame' itself.

Today in sunny England, a 17 year old boy (who lived calm life) swung a hammer at his friend repeatedly until he was dead. All this, after playing the PS2 game Manhunt.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/3936597.stm



The world's gone over this topic a dozen times (school shooting after playing Doom, anyone?), but has never been truly concluded. As gamers yourself, was there ever a time you was so easily influenced by a game? ...perhaps you just snuck around the house after playing Splinter Cell, or ..um...used a water pistol on some candles after playing Thief 3.

there are some easily affected minds out there...
btw i think you forgot GTA ;)

i seem to remember a friend of mine who always started fighting after playing tekken with him.

Sometimes, when I saw physical tricks in videogames and movies, such as a front flip, or a kip-up, I'd try them, but that's as far as I've gone. It's not the fault of the videogames, it's the fault of the people who are too weak-minded to let themselves be controlled by something unexistant, such as Tekken. It's a game. It's fun! They went over this with Counter-Strike. How many people play it? How many of them have ever commited a murder? The world seems to focus so much on the dark side of things, rather than what good comes out of it.

Edit: Conclusion, videogames do not influence people so much as to make them take such action. They act upon the fact that they are depressed, their life is turning upside down, etc. The videogame just happened to be the last and final inspiration.

I get so tired of this argument, the kid was obviously [:-censored]ed up before he played that game. Even if he wasnt, somthing else would eventually trigger him and make him do somthing simlar. Really if you are that weak minded that a GAME would make you kill your friend with a hammer, you need to be in jail anywayz.

I said that in the first place, but anyway, amen. :)

Well alot of people play games to "excape" the real world so I can really see how easy it would be to get obsessed with the action, but like brad you gotta have a major screw loose to think killing a buddy is part of a game... there like billions of people in the world, 20 or so at most have gone insane after or during gameplay, what an average.....

Yes, let's put a stop to videogames and stop another 20 people from going insane in the next 50 years, but continue with the wars and result in 5,000 times the casualties. -_- Jesus, politics talk the talk, but they have total bullsh*t to back it up.

Well yep, just yesterday after playing soldat, i thought it would be cool to strap jet engines to my feet to see if i could fly...

seriously, think how stupid that sounds, young chilren who watch tv and play videogames are definitely influenced by it (im talking around 3-5 years old here), but uh, by the time you're seventeen, you should be able to understand that you probably shouldnt go shoot someone in the head with a sawed-off shotgun just because you saw it on tv

Some minds -as stated before- are more easier to influence than others.
Especialy those who have 'weaker' mental abilites, can be affected by their surroundings.
These are the people, that can totally loose their sense of realism, or do things like the kid did in the main post.
U enjoy a game, when u feel what it's main character does.-if that's possible.But Manhunt...
Well let's just say this was a bad coincidence.
Manhunt is the sickest game I've ever saw, and the really sad thing is-some people ARE planing to do a similar show.

i've always looked at this as nothing more than a ridiculous excuse for someone's actions.

Well, it's just normal that you try to imitate cool things you saw, for example in movies or videogames. But I'd never imitate anything violent. Maybe cool shooting action with a plastic pistol, but nothing more ;) And as Kazuki said, it's not the fault of the games. There are also violent movies. It's just the people who can be influenced easily.
I don't know if you've heard it in the news, I'm not sure if the news also got to outside countries, but here in Germany, in the city Erfurt, a guy went to school with guns, killed schoolmates, teachers, and after that himself. This guy was also playing Counter-Strike, watching brutal videos, and hearing such music. In the news everyone said it was the fault of the games (he didn't even have internet to play cs online). In the news they even made CS more violent than it is. They said you earn money in it by killing old women and kids! But there's one thing noone took care of: This guy had psychical problems. He got banished out of the school (right?), and I'm sure he had even more problems. He just had this anger, even without the games. Maybe because of the games he did exactly what he did, but without the games he could've done anything else. In this case the games could've just been, as morpheus said, a ridiculous excuse, because they didn't know what else could've been trigger for his actions.
I mean, look at me. I'm only 15 years old, and playing brutal games, too, since several years, although those games maybe "over 16/18 years only". Maybe it influenced me, everything you see influences you in a special way, but I don't think that much in a negative way. I couldn't even willfuly kill a fly. But still I play brutal computer games.
But the problem is, how can you control who plays this games and who doesn't? It's not only the age. But that's the problem, you can't control it.
And there are 2 different ways in wich you can see brutal computer games. 1. With playing shooters, the player might want to do this shooting in real-life, too. 2. With playing shooters, the player doesn't want to do this shooting in real-life anymore, too, because he can do it in virtual reallity. But I'm not sure about this. Now we have video- and computergames, you can't just forbid them and the world is fine. I'm not sure.

quote:Originally posted by bucky_brad
I get so tired of this argument, the kid was obviously [:-censored]ed up before he played that game. Even if he wasnt, somthing else would eventually trigger him and make him do somthing simlar. Really if you are that weak minded that a GAME would make you kill your friend with a hammer, you need to be in jail anywayz.

FULL ACK.

The only influence of a video game I can think of is.. worms world party. I had a dream playing it, but that's all.
Usually ~13 years old (and younger) are influenced by movies.. so they talk like the main character for a few weeks (or less)
the guy from Chakra's article is 17 years old.. shouldn't be that easy to influence.

Look at the media.
We have fact #1 guy shoots friend, teacher, ...
fact #2 he listens to a certain band
we conclude: the band makes people kill people.
hooray.. now we have enough bull[:-censored] for the public..
makes me angry and sad.

Yep. Why concentrate any longer on that guy and why he could've done this? He played the game, that MUST be the fact why he killed his friend.

I grant that people and problems in games make you mad, I am mad cause I jsut got killed in the middle of nowhere and the guy that killed me too all my stuff when all i wanted to do was make some money... but im not gonna go to his house and kill him

Too true morpheus. Why blame a person when you can blame the evil media and marketing.... gory movies were the culprits before gaming.

But still, theres a nice catalogued history of teenagers, who happen to be avid gamers, doing a number on some fellow youths in a very uncalled for manner. Somehow games are (probably) affecting some very suggestable kids. Are they just mentally unstable or just so stupid that they think its 'cool' ?

Chakra, I think its a combination of both. Theres a fine line between holding a plastic (and colored) gun at your screen and aiming cold blue steel at a living person. Those who can't tell the difference, or could and would do so anyway, are just asking for serious help.

Video games are always an option for blame when something like that happens, but I think politicians have taken it too far by STILL shunning on games like Doom and Wolfenstein. Um... hello?

I don't believe any sane person would just smash their friends brains in with a hammer. But then again, my teacher once told me that it was "always the quiet ones."

Parents complain about Manhunt, but it seems Manhunt was inspired by 8mm (the movie with Nicholas Cage). I didn't hear a lot of complaining for that.

Society is too uptight about games. Give it a while though. The gamers of today are the politicians and parents of tomorrow (given we get out of our basements and meet other people).

And on a final note...

Joe Lieberman hates video games because he sucks at Pong.

http://www.mavav.org/

Bless them.

"Even those casual gamers suffer from low self-esteem and self-pride compared to their athletic and more socially accepted peers"

Bugger off.

'Massive Multiplayer Role Playing... Game or Fatal Attraction?'
'EverQuest: A Threat to Society?'
'Splinter Cell: How-To Kill'

We're evil. I guess. Trained killers, one and all, including the pre-teens with sqeaky voices and pimples. Depressing.

Edit: Serious bit: We're judged by the actions of a tiny minority. The vast majority of gamers are normal people just having fun. I believe that while games might trigger killings, the killer must still be mentally disturbed to begin with. No normal person will be so changed by something on a screen so as to kill another human. The killer [or his/her upbringing or whatever it is that does it] is the one to blame, not the games and Marilyn Manson.

The second one. How many teenagers today have enough common sense? Very few. How many play video games. Perhaps all of them. Im with Boosta and MisterX. People think that if you have two aspects and they tie together, then you get a conclusion. Oh, the sadness of the human assumptions. Here's what's wrong:

1. People are scared to face the truth.
2. People are too selfish to blame it on our race.
3. People act because of other people, and not videogames.

Conclusion: PEOPLE

Is still tetris banned in germany fro being so dangerous?

lol! Soon enough, they're gonna blame tetris because people were killing others by crushing them with huge objects and making weird noises.

quote:Manhunt should only be sold to people aged 18 and over

Hmmm, so if your 18 you are magically non violent? If they think that then they are crazy.

well i hate that their giving excuses like this.. if your just an normal person then you wouldnt do such a thing..
look @ soldat.. does it affect your behavior.. ( no sick posts plz..:P )

after i play soldat i dont get the desire to run around with an AK and shoot ppl..

quote:Originally posted by Kazuki
lol! Soon enough, they're gonna blame tetris because people were killing others by crushing them with huge objects and making weird noises.

lol!

Do you know Christina Stürmer? I don't think so. Well, she's an austrian (think so) singer. She's so great you know. She made a song, called "Mehr Waffen", "more weapons" in english. What is this song about? hm? think. yes. It's about kids playing eeevil games. She says gamers are outsiders, and to get the respect of your classmates, those gamers would simply need to load a gun. And for sure those gamers knows how this is done, they play games everytime. And for example she says gamers don't need friends, don't need a girlfriend, you got Lara Croft. And such things, it's horrible.. Wait, let me look for an english translation of the song, I saw one once..
can't find one, well, here's a bit of the song, and the refrain:
Being an outsider you've got a hard life
you wish you had a rifle
'cause then they would respect you
you just had to load your weapon
and you exactly know how to do this
you can do it perfectly

Like in your video game
you can't have enough enemies
'cause your always in control of the situation
even if they all die
Does it matter?

Refrain:
More weapons
More Enemies
More Levels
More Details
More Rage
More Blood
This game is really good
More weapons
More Enemies
More Levels
More Details
In your cyberworld you're the superhero

And she also got popular like that. Why did she sing this? She said in an interview, she dislikes that, when she was young, she saw cartoons, but his little sister plays videogames. Just 3 letters: omg

I would blame the internet before games on how to load a gun. Unless there is a game that has a step by step diagram.

What's next? Super Mario and dodging fire. Seriously, video games are not the whole reason for the happenings of the world. Maybe a small part of the reason, and the inspiration of the style of an event... but how is it the reason? No way. Adults need to learn to get into a gamer's position before whining on and on.

vido games are only addictive because there more fun than palying outside. wanna go outside and play! yah! lets go throw sticks! wooo. welcome to the 21st century, video games are what we do for fun.

The theory is true. Picking up a loaded Spas and blowing people to pieces in the street is a daily practice to me. Then, when the cops come, all I have to do is throw molotov cocktails at them and they go away, and as for the SWAT team that they usually send for me after the cops chicken out, nothing my Barret wont handle. They die in screams of "barretard" and "omg hax0r" as I whore them all, steadily but surely. A bloody puddle of flesh and gore is all that's left after the ferocious camping. next its the army units, but I whore those too with my personal SG, installed at the roof of my house, same goes for the helicopters. After that I impose my will upon the townsfolk and tell them to worship me.

But seriously, how many of you ever heard of Columbine (directed to those who dont live in the US). For those who dont know what Im talking about, heres a summary. 2 kids go to school one day in trench coats, with hidden guns and pipe bombs underneath. At recess they throw down their coats and start shooting at people, they plant the pipe bombs in school, and after they get to their last bullets, use them to take their own lives. Some said they're satanists. Some blamed social toxicity and said that these kids were vengeful outcasts. Some called them sociopaths. Some blamed the bands they listened to: Rammstein and KMFDM.

I never listened to KMFDM much, but I listen to alot of Rammstein. They have a particular song called 'Weisses Fleisch', standing for white/pale flesh. The very first line is 'Du auf dem schulhof, ich zum Toten bereit', meaning 'you at the schoolyard, I am ready to kill'. This propably sparked the blames. People started calling Rammstein "Audio-terrorist sociopaths" whose music directed people to harm others. To me, Rammstein isnt the most violent music I've heard. There are worse bands. I dont go around school fragging people here and there just because I like Rammstein. This is the same kind of stuff video games get blamed for. I read some article about this guy who shot someone at an 'internet cafe' as they call them, which are public LAN shops that you can play at. He shot this kid because he insulted him via chat during the game in some way; he went around checking everyone's aliases till he found the one who insulted him, pulled out a gun, and shot the guy in the head. This is different than what people think of of when they blame video games for violence. He shot the kid not because he thought it was cool in video games, but because he was insulted by him. Remember that pwned flash movie about the kid getting his ass kicked at CS and shooting people in school the next day? Thats what I think is more real. People are more likely to get angry over unfair or unenjoyable play in video games rather than just go around copying what they saw while playing.

Think about it. If you played Doom, for example, would you go buy a gun and shoot people to death just because it was fun doing so while playing Doom? Or would you get really angry at home (Though I cant really think of it getting to the level of homicide or anything like that, though sometimes it does, like the incident a the internet cafe) if someone harasses you and gets on your nerves online, just like what myg0.t did to that guy in the flash movie? If theres any danger in playing video games, its not the games themselves, its the abuse you get from other people, which is a whole new category. Abuse and harassment from other people can come from many places, real life or cyber space. People would still get angry, the same kind of anger, I'd think, too. So its not really the video games, its the people who piss others off. So its a kind of unfair karma, I guess. People die because others pissed the killer off or gave him enough reason to direct his/her rage against others. In other words, society pays for its own 'crimes', even though the victims in homicides such as Columbine are innocent, they are a part of society, and the killers dont really give a damn if they are innocent or not. They point a finger at what they hate and they act against it: society, people, rage/anger/hate, shoot. Bingo?

Edit: I wanted to add this: I dont really know if the Columbine murderers actually had this anger grow in them because they were harassed at school by other kids, or if they had some mental illness that involved sociopathy, but any of these two explanations makes more sense than "they got inspired by Rammstein and KMFDM out of the blue, and got the idea to shoot people at school".

even though manhunts banned in NZ i downloaded it, its pretty violent and i stopped playing it cos stealth games get boring

TFS: Rammstein is a nice target for the media or whoever wants to blame them, simply because they're quite.. popular? I mean, how many german bands do you know?

Has anyone seen the movie "Elephant"?

lol, I actually read all of TFS' post this time, instead of just skimming for the key points. :P Dare I say, all of it was correct, imo. Just read TFS' post for my points. If I can think of any more, I'll post them myself.

Tfs is the dude who gives me faith that american's are NOT stupid.(along with Kaz)
Well said, but they blame Rammstein and stuff like that cause it is "spectacular" and easy to "prove".
And as long as the world stays like this, we -teh gamers- will have no power to prove our truth.Mainly because we are young, and they don't take us seriously.

Well...sorry there buddy but tfs isnt american.

That explains a lot of things :D
That means im pwned.Sorry ^^

yeh I heard about the school killings. Most Australians know about them... I think.

Did anyone hear about how you can buy the "training" videos of the kids who did the shooting. I'm not sure if its the columbian shooting though. I saw a preview on the news, its pretty much just them shooting some cans and crud but still I reckon that is pretty screwed up.

quote:Originally posted by b00stA
TFS: Rammstein is a nice target for the media or whoever wants to blame them, simply because they're quite.. popular? I mean, how many german bands do you know?

Has anyone seen the movie "Elephant"?


I know of Megaherz, Eisbrecher, and Stahlhammer. Isn't Rammstein Austrian, though?

quote:Originally posted by that fuking sniper
quote:Originally posted by b00stA
TFS: Rammstein is a nice target for the media or whoever wants to blame them, simply because they're quite.. popular? I mean, how many german bands do you know?

Has anyone seen the movie "Elephant"?


I know of Megaherz, Eisbrecher, and Stahlhammer. Isn't Rammstein Austrian, though?

I've never heard of those three. Rammstein is german, you can look it up at www.allmusic.com

quote:Originally posted by DeMonIc
Tfs is the dude who gives me faith that american's are NOT stupid.(along with Kaz)
Well said, but they blame Rammstein and stuff like that cause it is "spectacular" and easy to "prove".
And as long as the world stays like this, we -teh gamers- will have no power to prove our truth.Mainly because we are young, and they don't take us seriously.
and its that statement that makes me think hungarians are stupid for stereotyping all americans to be stupid or of low intelligence. we didnt HAVE to save u from the nazis back in the 40s

quote:I saw a preview on the news, its pretty much just them shooting some cans and crud but still I reckon that is pretty screwed up.


That "trainnig video" was a movie they made for school... they used fake guns and actors. They were inn trench coats and such, sort of like a matrix rip off with out the special effects.

hmm.. i dont really agree with most of you, guys.

yea, it seems a bit unrealistic and exhadgerated to kill someone cause of a videogame/band/movie/etc. , but, you cant really judge them. who knows what happend to them 20mins before the incident? who knows, maybe you would've done the same thing. who knows.

oh, and please, dont think i'm justifying them. they are very very gay people for doing such thing. still, you need to understand them, before you blame the media for blaming us :p.

inconclusion: the kids who have done this, are idiots and/or (prollly and) stupid mofo's. but, imho, the video games triggerd them.
inconclusion2: videogames = bad. mental illness = very bad. mixing them together = i need to wake up early tomorrow. methinks.

Some people are just retarted

Remarkably, that sums things up.



quote:Originally posted by AerialAssault
we didnt HAVE to save u from the nazis back in the 40s

Please, don't bring in WWII. Whenever Americans are somehow insulted by an European this seems to be always brought up. It was 50 years ago. Moreover, it wasn't just the Americans who defeated the Nazis and risked their lives for freedom - it was Canadians, British, Australians, French, Kiwis, Americans...many nations. Mmkay? Thank you.

pwnd

I agree with the last part of koil's post (the part about waking up early) :P

quote:and its that statement that makes me think hungarians are stupid for stereotyping all americans to be stupid or of low intelligence. we didnt HAVE to save u from the nazis back in the 40s
Sorry if I'm being stereotypive, but this is based somewhat on personal experiences, and yes, maybe it was a bad idea to judge the whole from the little part.In short: I met few americans, but majority of them were stupid.Meant no offense though.
Btw Hungary has some dumbasses too.
This was an off.Sorry ;)

Nah, demonic is right, in a way, American edjucation is beyond 'pathetic'. I still learned stuff here in 10th grade that gave me flashbacks of 5th-7th grade in Israel. Personal experience ;)

Then again, that stuff is all relative, so to themselves they dont seem edjucationally retarded, its me whose just cocky. Makes sense?

quote:Originally posted by Kazuki
They went over this with Counter-Strike. How many people play it? How many of them have ever commited a murder?



I'm guessing at least twelve, i'm also guessing at least half of them said "OMFGSTFU N00B" *BANG BANG BANG*

quote:Originally posted by Duke33
it wasn't just the Americans who defeated the Nazis and risked their lives for freedom - it was [...] Kiwis [...] Mmkay? Thank you.

Kiwis to power!

quote:Originally posted by gi.joe
pwnd
i wasnt pwned, i well know of them, but when the americans invaded, it was a turning point in the war, had the nazis not had to worry about yet another front, they couldve defeated the russians. d-day was a crucial factor in the war, and that is well known.

D-Day was indeed crucial. British, Canadian, and American troops were involved. One beach (Juno) was taken by just Canadians. Sword and Gold beaches were taken by British troops. Utah and Omaha beaches were taken by American forces.

Not just Americans. All of us.


Why are we talking about this again? No hard feelings, by the way.

and Norwegians!
we must not forget them, no matter how few they were

Indeed.

Can we get back onto the topic of how stupid video game hating people are? :P

Damn video games/Movies/TV shows/Radio/ should have more violence...They should make a game that would be a mix of GTA, Carmageddon, Quake, Manhunt and Mortal Kombat...Also they should make a reality show, with a guy in a truck running over old ladies, babies and dogs
never enough of violence ...

This kinda old news there... there was a shooting a while back a kid shot someone and said it was because of gta3 There are so many humans out in the world and there are so many dumbasses where just lucky those dumbasses arnt as crazy as the 1 guy that does something after a game...

it should not even be in the news because shootings and people beating people to death happens and then just this one time this kid blames a video game thats kinda lame and gay Hell you can watch regular cable tv and see that crap

Some people are just easily afflicted by things they observe. Its not easy to comprehend that fact, but some of us on this Earth are moved by things that others see as "a game".

"Video games don't kill people, kids who have parents that cannot grasp basic discliplinary knowledge kill people."

Americans were the tards who needed more time to take the control of the beaches

I think games do influence ppl more then you all are willing to belive. Me and 5 or 6 of my friends went to a internet place to play some cs (or day of defeat or somthin) lan. We made a game and eventually some ass hole joins and tks and stuff so the admin of us kicks the guy. This guy stands up and starts walking around the room pushing tab on every persons game who was playing the game to find out who kicked them and when the find my friend they say: wtf was that? why the f*ck you kick me?. We all start laughing and my friend says it was an accident. The guy say o yea? well do it again and I might acidently kill you (or something like that) the guy was tiny to, like 5'10 prolly 120 pounds. (most of us 5'10+ 140+) and thers no way he would sanely say that.That convinced me games make ppl go a little crazy

No, the guy was already crazy before he started playing or else he wouldn't have gotten the idea to do that in the first place. In fact, anybody who TKs is either a child or a certifiable lunatic.

I would break this guy's neck

lol my point again

I agree with you all but i don't understand how talking about some kid shooting his "friend" to americans are retards with hardly an edjucation. I mean that's a perfectly good discussion and i could probably write two pages worth of flaming about it because even though I'm an american I still believe majority of them are retarded. I mean hell 80% of them still don't know the difference between to, too, and two; there, their, and they're; leade, lead, and led. But really it is about game violence. Really what they made as "connections" could be possible if the kid was screwed up in the beginning then he would definately be influenced by that. But with all these other incidences such as the kid shooting the other kid and blaiming it on gta3 is complete bullcrap. I first started playing video games when i was about 8 and I was playing tekken and doom and turok i think it is. That didn't make me rummage around trying to find a gun and then shooting everyone in the face or trying to shoot propane tanks to see it explode. No, I know it was a game even when i was 8 because in real life I was disciplined as a child and i learned that in life there are concequences to every action that I take in the real world unlike in games where there are none. At 8 8! I apparently had more common sense than this kid did. The kid he killed probably wasn't even his friend if he easily killed him like that. Unless of course the kid was his friend and there may have been some sort of emotion problem within the mixture of the murder and then at that kind of state the kid would be unpredictable. Someone that has never touched a video game in his life or watched 1 violent movie could one day get so mad at his wife for some even taking place such as her cheating on him in front of his own eyes or something. Then he could just run into the kitchen get a knife and slit her throat. Yet he never once in his life seen or played part in an act of violence for entertainment. To kill is a primordial lust that every human has and it is impossible to deny that you have never thought of doing something that may result in the end of someone else's life or saying, "Man I wish I could kill that kid!". If anything a video-game would appease the lust to kill and help reduce your wish to kill someone because isn't it better to kill some digital image instead of a real person or creature? I think all people are hypocrites.