This is for all of the 18+ year olds in the US.

We've got an election coming up guys. An election that is extremely important in terms of global politics. I'm sick and tired of trying to dance around topics or stay PC when hitting this issue. I just picked up a new NOFX CD called "The War on Errorism". If you're into punk at all, I suggest you pick it up. That being said, here's the liner rant from the inside of the cover.

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Hello, and greetings from NOFX. How are things with you? That's nice. This would be a good time to start the introduction to this CD. There's a bunch of punk songs and some other kinds of songs (I guess we still do play ska) and plenty of sophomoric lyrics, but unlike other NOFX CD's, this one has some bonus stuff. We've included and enhanced CD featuring some videos and some political commentary. Yeah, we're not really known for our politics, but maybe it's time we are. Maybe it's time for people to start sharing information and opinions instead of relying on our government or the corporate owned media to tell us what they think we should know. You don't have to be a political analyst to see that America is suffering from a general lack of knowledge. In fact, Americans seem to have a very limited knowledge of knowledge. Lots of opinions floating around, but very little actual knowledge. For being one of the wealthiest and supposedly greatest nations on the planet, one would think tha tthe people o fthis great country would reflect that greatness. They Don't. Compared to other Western countries, Americans rank among the lowest when it comes to education and general knowledge of world affairs.

The first question one would ask is why? Why are Americans so ignorant? Could it be that the American government wants them that way? If they didn't, they might spend more money on education. The best way to keep the status quo is to keep the majority of people happy. The best way to keep them happy, is to keep them ignorant. Ignorance is bliss and the blissful don't revolt.

How do you keep 300 million people from knowing or caring what's going on in the world? Well that seems pretty easy. First, you make sure that people spend most of their time concerned with their own security. You make sure local news shows cover all the local shootings, kidnappings, and armed robberies. Then throw in the sports, weather, and the ever changing price of gasoline. It seems that all major news sources provide the same one sided stories. When all you get to see is one side, it's hard to understand the complexities of an issue or have empathy for the other side. Someone such as Bill Maher from the canceled TV show Politically Incorrect was ostracized for giving an honest yet unpopular viewpoint on the subject of terrorism, and his show was subsequently canceled. Somehow one of the most inherently American pastimes of criticizing the government is now considered to be completely un-American. It's our responsibility as Americans to exercise our right to civil disobedience and dissent. These are the principles on which our country was founded.

Anyway, this is the reason we have included the enhanced CD. People need an alternative source of information. This is our way to help inform the public on how we are all getting ass [:-censored]ed. The movie "Un-precedented" clearly illustrates how the 2000 presidential election was rigged in Florida. For being the so-called leader of democracy, the United States is now the butt of a worldwide joke. The Republican party stole the election and illegally moved into the White House. It's pretty much the biggest scandal in US history and no one seems to be talking about it. All everyone keeps saying is ``get over it'' or ``that was so two years ago.'' Well, we're not getting over it and neither should you. If enough people see what really happened, hopefully we can make sure that it never happens again. Hey, the truth about the Cuban missile crisis didn't come out for over 20 years, but it was just as important when it did. Please watch this trailer for this documentary and show it to as many people as you can. If you would like a full length copy, go to www.unprecedented.org to get one. Things are not going to change on their own. We need to work together to take this country back from the criminals (currently war criminals) that have stolen it from us.

A lot of you reading this might be thinking that we're assholes or American traitors. Well, we may be assholes, but we're certainly not traitors. We are actually patriots in the true sense of the word. We are the ones calling attention to the faults of our government and trying to fix them. We are the ones trying to expose mistakes in order to learn from them instead of covering them up.

We are the ones who have concern for more than just ourselves. We are the ones trying to educate people. We are the ones who question authority instead of simply obeying it. We are the ones who are patriotic.... [:-censored] THAT! Did I just say that? Let's go back. Patriotism is a little too close to nationalism. Or is it the same thing? Either way, we are [:-censored]ing better than patriots. We are world patriots. Not only do we care about our own country, we care about the whole [:-censored]ing planet. We are human beings with the capacity to care for more than just ourselves. So lets use that capability. It's not enough to simply think locally or nationally. We must think globally.

Americans are so concerned with their own personal safety that they've turned their backs on this country and this planet. They put an American flag on the SUV and figure they've done their part. They're more concerned with their feardoms than our freedoms (Hey, that's pretty good!) so lets stop with the ``We are #1'' bull[:-censored]. America is not #1. We're like #11 or #12. For the 91% of Americans who haven't travelled outside the country (such as George W. before he was ``elected''), there are several countries that are arguably better than this one. I would put Australia, Canada, Sweden, Holland, and Denmark on the top of the list for sure. Some of these countries have all the freedoms the US has* plus a whole lot more of 'em (prostitution, socialized medicine, euthanasia, gay marriage, legalized recreational drugs, gay military enlistment, abolishment of death penalty, etc.) Don't get my wrong, #12 is still pretty damn good out of over 250 countries, but there's still a lot more room for improvement. That's what this is really all about: positive change. We don't want to bash America, we want to make it better. In order to make it better, you must first point out what is wrong with it. Well, we got a big pointing stick and we're aiming right for the eye. We're looking to poke that sucker right out of its socket. Thanx for reading our rant, and thanx for buying, burning, borrowing, or stealing this CD. Sincerely,
FAT MIKE MELVIN
Smelly EL HEFE

* Not sure if Australia has more freedoms, but the weather and surf sure are great, and the people are really nice.
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It's alright to say [:-censored] BUSH at the top of your lungs. It's alright to question what is going on, in spite of what our so called "liberal" media is saying (man [:-censored] Fox too).

The election is coming. Get registered. Cast your vote. Make a [:-censored]ing difference.

I love them !!!!!!!!

me as a german really hopes that bush wont get a second chance, in my eyes he is the 2nd hitler but with killing arabian nations instead of jews. sorry guys he really pisses me off

yeah about 99% of other countries share that view about Bush....and they're right :P

we are this 1% then, hurayy

Ehhh... ok the Bush = Hitler reference is so far off. That's just a bit of propaganda right there. He's fighting the Iraqi's not trying to wipe the Muslims off the face of the Eath.

But he is a moron, and should not be president.

And don't apologize. Your view is your view.

Okay. First we have us foreigners telling you how YOU should run your own country. Second, who actually misses the Taliban? Who misses Saddam Husseins 'evil' regime?

quote: Somehow one of the most inherently American pastimes of criticizing the government is now considered to be completely un-AmericanHow very true.

First of all I'd like to refer you all to this page. Please, read it all, it's not very long. Notice the names of some of the signatories at the bottom; Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, any of these ring a bell? Perhaps one of them is the Vice President, another the secretary of defence, and the other his deputy?

These people, and others, had a clear idea of the direction they wanted to take the country in, and when the September 11 terrorist attacks took place, they took that opportunity and went with it.

After 911, Bush declared 'War on Terrorism', which only suited the purposes of the Bush administration better because it invoked their military might. This isn't the way you deal with terrorism. Declaring War requires an identifiable target, preferably a state. Which means that the 'War on terrorism' has been directed at states harbouring terrorists. However, terrorists are nonstate actors by definition (They are not the states official soldiers), even if in many cases they are sponsored by a state.

As a result, the War on terrorism has created many victims. The more innocent victims there are, the greater the resentment, and the better the chances that some victims will turn perpetrators.

There have been many examples of victims turning perpetrators: Hitler rose to power by capitalizing on a wave of resentment caused by a, in many cases, extremely harsh peace treaty at the end of WWI. He openly, fiercely, opposed the peace treaty, and this suited the Germans due to the large amount of resentment, and as a result, they supported him, and when he became Bundeskanzler they stood behind their leader. I'm not saying Bush is like Hitler, I'm just using this as an example.

In a sense America is a victim turned perpetrator. Bush appealed to the American people, vowing to fight the 'War on Terrorism' and, due the enormous resentment and outrage of the American people, they stood behind their leader. To criticise the administrations actions would be seen as un-patriotic.quote:The only thing we have to fear is fear itself - Franklin D. RooseveltFear is exactly what the Bush administration used to get away with their actions. With constant terror threats the Bush administration kept the population on its feet and scared. What I thought was quite funny, which I just noticed as I'm writing this, was how the threats suddenly stopped after we invaded Iraq. I remember all the delayed, and cancelled flights, the constant terror threats, but then the moment we invaded Iraq...it stopped.

War is the wrong way to deal with terrorism. Treating the attacks of September 11 as crimes against humanity would have been more appropriate. Crimes require police work, not military action. To protect against terrorism, you need precautionary measures, awareness, and intelligence gathering ? all of which ultimately depend on the support of the populations among which the terrorists operate.

Invading a country and acting like a occupying power and not treating the citizens humanely, isn't gonna win any support, in fact, as we have seen, it has produced quite the opposite. Although Iraq was in fact not harbouring terrorists, it's now become a place for newly turned terrorists and insurgents to take pot-shots at the Americans.

I hate Bush, and his cronies.

Hitler was a room painter.
Odd.
This war was just a good way to hide the fact that america is taking the oil fields.
And that NOFX thingy said a lot of things..a lot of smart things.

..this is beyond the vehicals.. the search is your friend.

sorry for being the one who brings that up. somebody gotta do it :).

?

"fear is the mind-killer"

I think that it's really great that so many people are getting excited about politics and the US election (too bad more of them aren't from the US :( I also really respect NOFX for taking a stand and doing their part to "educate" their fans. It's only too true that Americans have a generally poor knowledge of their government and world affairs, but I think most of it has to do with their own indifference (not some huge media/government conspiracy). I just hope that the people that buy their CD don't just buy everything that NOFX is "selling" and go find out for themselves.

On a related note, NOFX could have retained a lot more credibility if they hadn't been so blatantly partisan in their rant... but if that's the way they feel, so be it.

If you into conspiracies, then read the one about the Bible and Bush, I believe it is in Revelations. If Bush teams up with the Pope anytime soon, say goodbye to the world.

"and the people are really nice."
yeah i noticed that about australia too ^^

a german guy comparing Bush to Hitler...
OH the irony ^^

quote:
On a related note, NOFX could have retained a lot more credibility if they hadn't been so blatantly partisan in their rant... but if that's the way they feel, so be it.


Just a couple quick notes.

1) I can almost gaurentee these guys could give a rats ass about crediblity. They're punk :p
2) Partisan? Nope. Being partisan would be saying they support one camp or another. That is not quite the case. They are just against Bush. The reason is pretty well explained in the letter.

1) Well, it's obvious they don't care about credibility. However, if you're trying to make a convincing argument, it is essential. If you don't have credibility you're only effective at "preaching to the choir" because you're not going to convince anyone to change their opinions. It was more an observation about their argument... but then one shouldn't expect a flawless argument. They're a punk band, not a debate team.

2) It's just semantics, but I've got nothing better to do at the moment. They were partisan in their obvious bias against Bush. "Partisan" doesn't only mean political parties and bias between Republicans and Democrats (although the common term "bipartisan" is used to refer to our "2-party system"). "Partisan" can be used to describe any person who is a staunch supporter of a certain cause, person, faction, party, etc. NOFX seems to be very supportive of the cause that wishes Bush to be out of the White House. Partisan? Yes. Explicitly endorsing a certain party? No.

1) See the thing is I'm sure their primary pull and target audience were the kids who listen to them. In that sense they have all the debate-worthy crediblity they need. They are preaching to a choir that they created.

2) Fair enough, but I still fail to see why they shouldn't have expressed their opinions. These guys arn't trying to do MTV's Rock the Vote. They're trying to get Bush out of office. That is the message. So I guess yea, that would be partisan, but it does not take away from the validity of the argument.

The bush team didnt even try to properly hide their true aims.

Iraq, they said "Oooh, evul Saddam & the mass destruction weapons"
The facts were that they even delivered weapons to evil Saddam to win the conflict vs. Iran.
Well, and no massdestruction weps found yet. (I can imagine that one day they'll just place them there and pretend theyd found it).
And the situation now is almost worse than a "normal" day under Saddams regime was.

Saddam even let experts on nuclear weapons and a UNO commission enter the country and search for dangerous stuff. Northern corea, even talkead about an atomic strike against Japan and the US in case of war, and threw out the UNO guys for some time. But their luck is, they dont have any ressources that would be worth a war.


So I do completely agree with NOFX, although I havent heard very much of em.

And I hope the Americans can be woken up from their lethargy of obeyance and do the right thing in November. Otherwise there is no other solution than forcing GW Bush to eat a kingsize Pretzel.
(that'd certainly finish him off)

@ SP: Fair enough [;)]

"1) Well, it's obvious they don't care about credibility. However, if you're trying to make a convincing argument, it is essential. If you don't have credibility you're only effective at "preaching to the choir" because you're not going to convince anyone to change their opinions. It was more an observation about their argument... but then one shouldn't expect a flawless argument. They're a punk band, not a debate team." - kevith

An arguement is not argued over credibility or tact. But on facts, points, and the process of arguementation itself. They have their facts, their points of view, and reasons to why their points of view are the way they are. They can say it in any way they wish. If you ignore their arguement completely simply because they are "not credible" then you are either looking for an excuse not to argue with them, or an insinuatingly insulting comment; both of which are caused by one thing: lack of ability to defend against their arguement. Anyone who can see that fact will be able to bring out another arguement, that your own defensive position in this debate is so weak that you resort to excuses/insults in order to bring a more favorable opinion to your side in the arguement without actually proving anything or making a relevant point. Simple logic.

Depends on if you are talking about the "official" arguments or the real ones.

official ones:
- Evul Saddam being bad
- Mass destruction weapons
- threatening USA

first one was quite right, but there are more such ppl on this world. And the situation now isnt better. Second one was proven wrong so far. The third one too, more or less, Iraq could have never threatened the US in a military way. And terrorists so far, came mostly from Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and Pakistan.


The real ones are clear:
- oil
- power
- oil

Large oilfields waiting to support the huge fuel consume in the US and push the US industry. Also trying to establish a government down there that will always be strongly dependant to the US seems quite useful, not only to have tighter control of the oil. This arguments seems to fit the way of thinking of Bush's cabinet, but you still can't use them as reasonable arguments. At first, thousands and thousands of soldiers were sent to secure oil fields, not mainly to free people down there. Enough of them died in the war, and are dying at car bombings/suicide bombers attacks/Militia attacks...
And at second, the region -being not really stable before- is now destabilized for a long time, for sure longer than the US and the rest of the troops is present down there. Shows how much Bush's cabinet gives about human rights on their hunt for oil and power, and - oh wonder - the axe of evil has lots of oil reserves (except for Northern Corea so far). Exchanging lifes and human rights to oil seems a fair offer to Bush & co, but taking their logic (which seems to work like this) to make their arguments really count is not right imho.
And btw. THEY are the ones in need to defend their arguments. They said Saddam is bad, they said Iraq threatens the US, they said the Iraq owns mass destruction weapons. Finally, THEY invaded Iraq without proving any of their official arguments as true (except for Saddam being bad).

Bah, I see everyone's ignored my post. Oh well..

With time you will learn that the fact that everyone seems to ignore your post actually means that they either cant stand up to it, add to it, or argue with it, so they leave it alone. It doesnt mean they didnt read it; I did, for one. The more flawless the post seems to be, the more people will seem to ignore it, or on the alternative, commend you on such a good post. That's a good post, by the way.

Thank you :)

Every President we have had has always had problems. The scary thing is, you really think Kerry is better than Bush?

There's a simple answer to that question: Yes.

Don't go with that cop out "well everyone has issues" bull[:-censored].

How about

"The scary thing is, you really think Clinton was better than Bush."
"The scary thing is, you really think Dr. Phil is better than Opera."



During Bush's term we have gone from being a country that if nothing else was at least tolerated by the world, to one that is easily the most hated.

And yes that's his fault. The moron is on a "crusade" against these people (his words, not mine).


But obviously you must be so much smarter than I am if you're able to make that statement. So tell me Soulsnipa, why would kerry be just as bad as Bush?

And you thought that Bush would be like this before he took presidency?

Anyone who did some research knew his backgrounds and knew he would not be a good president.

So the answer to your question is "more or less yes"

I dislike bush for many more reasons than just the Iraq war. Environmental spending cuts, tax breaks for the rich, and cuts to helper programs like welfare and social security. I knew he'd do these things.

I didn't know 9/11 would happen, and I didn't know he'd use it to attack Iraq (somehow).


So in short, I knew he was going to be a crappy president. I just had no idea how bad.

i really dont see why the whole world has something against bush

people saying he is dumb and stupid make me laugh. if he is so dumb and stupid, how did he become president? now you say "because the american people is dumb and stupid" great, so why are you crying now?

Weed, Bush has a laundry list of complaints against him.

Want an example? He essencially told the UN to go [:-censored] themselves when they told us not to attack Iraq. How's that for a reason?

And the last two sentences didn't make any sense. So whatever.

[edit]
and you live in freaking Israel. Go ask your friends why everyone hates us.

quote:Originally posted by Weed
i really dont see why the whole world has something against bush

people saying he is dumb and stupid make me laugh. if he is so dumb and stupid, how did he become president? now you say "because the american people is dumb and stupid" great, so why are you crying now?


He cant eat pretzels, he cant ride bikes. He cant even spell correctly. Nice president.

I wont say the American ppl are dumb, but political education is quite bad in many places. So ppl there are quite easily influenced by the media. And like SP said, the Bush government doesnt really invest into education. The lower the education is, the more easily ppl can be influenced. There might be some exceptions to that, but those just prove the rules.

Btw. recently I talked with an Israeli on IRC, who is a total Berlusconi fan. There must be quite some freaks down in Tel Aviv. o_0 [;)]

SP, are you trying to say my friends are extremist muslims?
I think people in Israel love the USA more then the average american. and actually, that is indeed true, because we here dont check ONLY what the USA does wrong, we also take a moment to actually check what they do right.

No Weed, I just figured by having an outside perspective you would have noticed the things that are wrong. We attacked Iraq to increase our oil income. Is that just sitting well with the world? I didn't mean to imply that you have only extremist muslim friends. What I meant was that you live in a part of the world where Anti-American sentiment is pretty wide spread (at least from what we can tell, I could be horribly wrong).

And Diablo, you're right about the education crap. And PLEASE remember, Bush lost the election by several MILLION votes. He got in because of a systematic loophole (that hasn't been fixed. Go figure).

actually, bush only lost by 543,895 votes, not millions, but got the (highly debatable) electoral vote at 271 to 266.

http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/2000presgeresults.htm

quote:Originally posted by Weed
i really dont see why the whole world has something against bush

people saying he is dumb and stupid make me laugh. if he is so dumb and stupid, how did he become president? now you say "because the american people is dumb and stupid" great, so why are you crying now?


Bush became president because he has rigged the elections. It was out in the open years ago. Everyone knew it for a fact, nobody did anything about it. And Bush is "dumb and stupid" in a sense - in relative comparison, while most presidents were above average students, Bush was an average/slightly below average C student. Even I got better grades, and yes, I do call him a moron, but not for any reason popular to many.

Morpheus, I was talking on the whole of the United States, not just Florida. The electoral system severely fuxxors stuff up.

that is the whole US. check the link.

quote:Originally posted by Kamikaze_Ninja
"and the people are really nice."
yeah i noticed that about australia too ^^


If you are talking about Howard, he is an Ass-kisser, but other than that, yeah aussies are naturally nice

oof. Touche' Morpheus. I heard wrong.

Maybe I got it mixed up with the number of "uncounted ballots during the Florida election" stat.

http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/elec2000.htm

SP, your right of course, and I knew that he only won because of the strange election system in the US. This should definitely be changed.

and lol, I like your signature :P

we need an atheist president. some of bushes problems, are that he doesnt think man will destroy itself, he thinks "god" will. i dont think the world realizes how dangerous a nuclear war could be. frankly im worried about communist nuclear powers. such as North Korea and China. i realize our relations with China are much better than that with North Korea. im not sure Kerry or Bush would be very good presidents. but maybe kerry would be a little better, because he seems a little less eager to goto war.

we need an atheist president. some of bushes problems, are that he doesnt think man will destroy itself, he thinks "god" will. i dont think the world realizes how dangerous a nuclear war could be. frankly im worried about acual nuclear powers. such as North Korea, China, Pakistan and Iran. i realize our relations with China are much better than that with North Korea. im not sure Kerry or Bush would be very good presidents. but maybe kerry would be a little better, because he seems a little less eager to goto war.

SP, people in Israel dont really care if Bush started the war in iraq for the Oil, because it plays to our side too. deleting one of Israel's enemies is what matter to us, not the oil, or the personal revenge.
you could say the whole "war on terrorism" is a big fake to take resources from countries, I dont care if they do, as long as they keep bringing down the damned terrorists.
so USA had 1 terrorist attack, and suddenly they are all like "oh no, terror is bad, we gotta take care of them", i guess that proves someone cant understand something untill it happens to him.

That is much more clarity than I see from your typical posts, Weed (o.O)

so USA had 1 terrorist attack, and suddenly they are all like "oh no, terror is bad, we gotta take care of them", i guess that proves someone cant understand something untill it happens to him.


Heh, this was something I said shortly after the attacks.

Oh and Weed, please understand that there are more domestic reasons for getting bush out of office than there are international ones. His foriegn policy sucks, imo (he did basically tell the UN to [:-censored] off), but the crap he does here just adds to that fire.

Goddamn it, I cannot believe I let myself be dragged into this... So here we go

United States of America got involved in Iraq for many different reasons. Power, oil, terrorism threats, etc, etc, etc, the list goes on. The important thing however is to realize that what they are doing in Iraq is the right thing.
Americans are sacrificing their lives in Iraq as we speak. They do it for Mr. Bush, they do it for me, but most of all, they do it for the Iraqi people. Iraqi people have proven that they cannot govern themselves successfully. Saddam Hussein has been out of control for the last 30 years. Instead of making deals with him, the USA just went in there and dealt with him once and for all.

I have to agree with Hitman, yes President Bush talked alot about the presence of WMD in Iraq. Yes, they havent found any WMD so far (Saddam Hussein is no fool, he destroyed all of the chemical gases long before US ground troops entered Iraq). But that's besides the point, Bush is besides the point, the point is that in 10 years the Iraqi people will be living much better than they had been living for the last thousand years.

USA went into Iraq for many reasons, sure some of the reasons were selfish. You want me to say it? Ok, they went in for cheap oil, and so what? Now they will buy the cheap oil and make sure that they money from the sales will go into the pockets of the ordinary Iraqi citizens. No more Saddam Hussein and his devil sons. No more tortures, gas, and ethnic cleansing.

Remember Marshall's plan. Remember how the USA protected Europe against Soviet tanks for 40 years. Remember how much money USA pumped into Israel so they would stand against foreign oppressors. Remember that only the USA destroyed the Soviet Union. The AMERICANS were giving HALF of their income away for 40 years so that EUROPEANS could live without fear of being invaded! How easily you Hitman forget that!
Remember how USA rebuilt Europe, Japan, and Korea. Remember how they stopped the slaughter in Serbia and Herzehovina, when the UN were just sitting on their asses.

USA truly is the beacon on freedom. They stopped Taliban in Afghanistan that was murdering tens of thousands, they stopped Saddam in Iraq that murdered over 300,000. And in 5 years you will see a huge improvement, and in 30 years we will be driving Iraqi cars, like we are driving Hondas right now.

TFS, stop and say thank you, because USA is the reason why your country exists. Hitman, stop and say thank you, because USA is the reason why there are no Soviet tanks in the streets of Switzerland.
Sure Americans had their reasons to invade Iraq and Afghanistan, but please do not forget to look at the big picture. The reasons do not matter in the end, the result matters.

Unfortunately, God would not strike Saddam Hussein with a lightning. God would not stop Taliban soldiers from murdering and raping little children. You want to know the reason why Americans took over those to countries? Because they CAN, and because it is the right thing to do. Sometimes God has to be deployed in a form of bullets that rip through the bodies of killers and murderers. Yes, innocent people die and bombings and crossfire, but not half as many as Saddam and Taliban killed on the daily basis. The pay off is great, and there will be freedom and prosperity in Iraq. You will see what I am talking about in 5-10 years.





Anyway, I DID quit this board, so shut your [:-censored]ing mouth

By the way Hitman, you don't know anything about Rumsfeld or Cheney. They are among the smartest leaders this country has ever known. Stop quoting Michael Moore, and maybe read a book of two before passing judgement. The fact that you watched Farenheit 9/11 does not make you a guru of American politics.

Oh, and while you are at it, do something about your head, because it is firmly stuck in your asshole. I cannot believe that trash movie got to you so much.

Oh oh, getting a bit touchy are we BMF. It's ok, Uncle Bush is here with huggles.

I wrote that post before watching Fahrenheit 911, which I find made some good points but was exaggerated, which is typical Michal Moore.

As for reading books, The Bubble of American Supremacy was the book I was reading at the time, and I never said I was the Guru of American politics.

did you even read my post?


EDIT By the way, congratulations Hitman!! You read A Book! And it did not even have any pictures!!

When you read your SECOND book, tell me and I will send you a cookie.

Um-ah.


...

Actually I did miss your first post, and I've now just read it :P

BMF, I understand your points, you make some good ones, but it's 2:45 in the morning, do you really think I want to argue politics?

I urge those of you in the U.S (I'm not sure if they broadcast this across the pond, or elsewhere in the world) to listen to NPR (National Public Radio). Many interesting topics concerning Bush and many of the under the table, shadey politics and ties between the Bush family and various leaders in the Middle East (sorry..can't remember specifics, I only caught a brief snipit of a very interesting conversation). It's obvious that Bush is as much of a joke in America as elsewhere in the world. Also, read American Dynasty, if no one else has suggested this. Goes into much more depth about topics related to these issues.

Before I go to bed, I'd just like to say..

Of course I haven't forgotten WWII, stop bringing that up the whole time. I study that period in History. I'm talking about the Bush Administration at this time and moment, not the Americans or the Administration during that period.

Yes, I understand the freeing of the people of Iraq, but this isn't the time to do it. Terrorism is the number one threat to the Americans and the rest of the world. Why go invade a country, speeding billions and billions of dollars both in the invasion and the rebuilding, when it:

a) Doesn't have any WMA (which has been demonstrated from the 'findings'), nor the capability to produce them for the past I don't know how many years. What I find funny is, is that in Fahrenheit 911 (No, I'm just pointing out one thing) there was actually a clip shown of Colon Powell, in 2001, saying "Iraq does not have any WMD, nor the capability to produce them, and therefore does not pose a threat to the United States" Or something along those lines..

b) Doesn't have any proven ties with Al Qaeda, or any other terrorist group for that matter.

So, now that we've ruled the terrorism part out what reasons, to prevent terrorism, did they have to invade Iraq? Why free a country which didn't pose a threat, when the Bush administration should be focusing on preventing terrorism, as I've stated in my other post, by using "precautionary measures, awareness, and intelligence gathering", etc. Now, although I hope sooner or later it will get better, Iraq is a mess, and the US, and the rest of the world has all it's attention focused on Iraq.

As you asked me before "Why haven't there been any terrorist attacks in America within the last 3 years?"...because they're all in Iraq having fun killing American Soldiers.

As the answer to your last question:

There had been no attacks on USA in almost four years because everybody is scared [:-censored]less. Terrorists knocked over two towers, and the USA knocked over two countries. USA special forces destroyed over 2/3 of the whole Al Qaida, they also wiped out almost all of the leadership, except for the ones with enough money to be hiding for years.

Want to attack USA? We will attack your country, and we will attack another country totally unrelated, it just happened to piss us off at the time.
As a terrorist, do you really want to [:-censored] with USA?


And this is what America is all about.

I am a genuine fence-sitter on this one :) Being Australian I don't think it my place to agree or disagree. But I would not go as far as saying Bush is Hitler, afterall Hitler was an absolutely marvellous public speaker who seriously brainwashed a lot of people. Not that that is a good thing :/

quote:Originally posted by BMF
As the answer to your last question:

There had been no attacks on USA in almost four years because everybody is scared [:-censored]less. Terrorists knocked over two towers, and the USA knocked over two countries. USA special forces destroyed over 2/3 of the whole Al Qaida, they also wiped out almost all of the leadership, except for the ones with enough money to be hiding for years.

Want to attack USA? We will attack your country, and we will attack another country totally unrelated, it just happened to piss us off at the time.
As a terrorist, do you really want to [:-censored] with USA?


And this is what America is all about.
Scared [:-censored]less? BMF, these people are fanatics, they have no fear, nor boundaries.

Attack their country, Afghanistan yes, but Iraq? That wasn't their country.

Hitman, I see your points however. And I agree with you that GW Bush did put much emphasis on the presence of WMD in Iraq, which turned out to be false. And I would not vote for him in the re-election, unless he comes out and admits that he lied and/or made a mistake. The current administration is very reluctant on admitting their mistakes, so that is unlikely to happen.

In any case, I believe that Iraq will be better off now that it is occupied by american troops. I think we have beaten this subject to death by now.

Yes, I think I've proven my point.

Now gimme my cookie bitch.

unblock me you [:-censored]ing asshole

bump Lol

"LOLOLSZZZSZ!!!!!!!11!!...bumping trheads iz so funneh!!!1!"

I never knew he liked NOFX.. Social Poison = INSTANT COOL.

nofx owns

I have always said that about SUV-flag wearers. My (unfortunately) town is full of Hummers with flags. I can't stand that. You get an SUV, and you have become a (Please refrain from swearing) of the Saudis already.

It's full of bible-humping Republicans. You know what they said? "Clinton wasn't 'man' enough to handle the Middle East". Like Bush is doing better? He's made it worse. He goes into Iraq like a retarded grade-school bully, taking lunch money(or oil)

I hate the Social Security thing, too. Sure, you COULD mke money, or you could end up living on the streets. I'd rather have guaranteed cash.

The rich don't deserve tax breaks, they wipe their asses with the amount of money used for taxes.

I think, instead of using money to get better stuff, we should train our troops better. Do we need that high-tech crap in a hand-to-hand campaign?

No, we need top of the line training to fight guerillas. Training that could even rival the Israelis(sorry Weed). This is what we need!

Why are there insurgents? If you look at the records of the new "government", not one of the "officials" fought with Iraq in the 80's Iran-Iraq war. Most escaped to Iran, or other countries. Some mystery!

Oh, believe me, Bush could be the Antichrist(I'm Jewish, but I have studied other religions, too)

Look, a "foolish leader, reigns for 7 years" could easily be Bush. Don't remember the rest, but after that, we're going down.

Yay, more politics.