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Soldat Forums - Soldat Talk - General Discussions
that fuking sniper
August 7, 2004, 11:37 pm
I've seen alot of topics being locked for having something to do about cheaters or cheats. I understand censoring and locking topics that post links to cheats or sites that have them.

What I dont understand is why cant we state the cheaters' names and the new cheats that arise?

The arguement is that they should be mailed to Michal privately, and he would know what to do in the next update. But why not share it with the forum population? When it comes to cheaters' names, I'd think they *should* be posted on some kind of list so that server admins or remote admins would kick/ban them off servers when they see them, record their IPs, and keep them kicked/banned should they return under another alias.

About posting descriptions of cheats, why is that disallowed? I've seen many a topic locked just because they described cheats. Why is that a problem? Shouldnt the community know which is a cheat and which is a simple bug should they encounter it? Much like the one topic about the disconnect bug. If, for example, it was the other way around, how would people know weather this is a cheat or an innocent bug?

I was wondering about that, because these rules just soind paranoid and senseless to me.

karmazonpl
August 7, 2004, 11:51 pm
Yeah I was wondering too
why ?

Deleted User
August 7, 2004, 11:51 pm
Mentioning the name of a cheater gives them publicity, and gives them fuel for cheating in other servers. They get kicks from pissing other players off, and when they know it is working so well, they do it even more.

Similarly, when hackers see the hack THEY made in the limelight, they feel famous and are encouraged to make more.

Hitman
August 7, 2004, 11:57 pm
Yes, I know, I've been meaning to change those rules; they are a bit over the top.

As far as naming the cheaters, Styx said 'Don't give cheaters/hackers any fame on the forums'. His house, his rules, wadaya gonna do?

To be honest, I don't mind people discussing the Hacks, and the way they are used etc, as long as it doesn't turn into people swearing and saying how much they hate hackers. Who doesn't?

If you look at the topics that have been locked, correct me if I'm wrong, they are ones that start off like this:

"[:-censored]ing cheaters! I hate them! Some guy was hacking in Server X today and it was [:-censored]ing annoying. I just wanna [:-censored]ing kill them..." etc, etc....

Maybe a little exaggerated, but somewhat similar. I don't see the point in these threads, as everyone sees people hacking and there's no point in creating a topic every time someone does so.

The threads that are made to ask whether it was a cheat or not, are usually answered, and then locked due to that fact that it goes completely off topic.

I think I remember I good topic a little while ago, where people were discussing Hacks. That was alright. Not sure if it got locked cause it went off topic though.

Cookie.
August 8, 2004, 12:52 am
if you state the cheaters name people will go looking for them to get the cheat themselves and that would just cause more problems -_-

grand_diablo
August 8, 2004, 1:42 am
*agrees with cookie*

its good the way it is dealt with now

DeafBox
August 8, 2004, 2:09 am
I agree with tfs.

The thing about giving cheaters fame or wateva imo is total bs. The majority of cheaters play under alias and are always changing them. Normally because admins recognise the names and ban the person. I rarely seem the same hacker twice or at least the same name twice.

I think the current system of "dont talk about them and maybe they will go away" is totally naive.

Cookie.
August 8, 2004, 2:20 am
you can talk about them but dont post names in forums O_O give them specifically to the admins dna.styx michal etc. just dont post em hear

grand_diablo
August 8, 2004, 3:13 am
quote:Originally posted by DeafBox
I agree with tfs.

The thing about giving cheaters fame or wateva imo is total bs. The majority of cheaters play under alias and are always changing them. Normally because admins recognise the names and ban the person. I rarely seem the same hacker twice or at least the same name twice.

I think the current system of "dont talk about them and maybe they will go away" is totally naive.


a) A cheater is named and its his real nick.
- Some ppl will probably flame him, some admins ban him.
But some ppls will go and ask for hax.
-> more cheaters

b) A cheater is named, but he played under a fake nick
- Some ppl will flame the person with that name,
some admins will ban him. FOR NOTHING, cause the cheater was an imposter, and the one originally carrying the name didnt do anything.
-> some unguilty person publicly declared for a cheater.

So which possibility do you prefer?

The system doesnt work like "dont talk bout them and they will leave", it actually is "dont give them fame and the problem wont increase".

It might be ok to post a cheaters name, if you can prove by 100% that the one cheating carried his real nick. But this not possible in 95% of the cases.

Snowden
August 8, 2004, 3:38 am
I think not naming names should be enforced, simply because people can easily hide behind other people's names. But I also agree, the issue of cheating should be discussed more openly in the forums.

morpheus
August 8, 2004, 4:41 am
i think it would be a good idea to discuss how to deal with cheats. for instance, speed hackers: drop a bunch of nades around the flag. they're going so fast, they never notice the nades, and go boom. and even if they do notice them, it's usually to late for them to stop. that usually works for me.

Cookie.
August 8, 2004, 5:55 am
a way to solve the impersonation problem is registered nicknames which would make it easier to determine if its the real person

that fuking sniper
August 8, 2004, 6:08 am
Stalky, I've thought about that before. Most, if not all cheaters cheat to get some attention, that being negative isnt an issue. But the thing is, I think naming them will lessen their existence in servers more than not. I dont think cheaters stop after they start. I mean, even if they dont get their names on the forums, why would they suddenly stop? My other point is that the fact that many admins/remote admins who would see their names on the forums and kick/ban them from their servers repeatedly/permanentally will have a greater positive effect on the general gameplay than a negative one - hey, they might get a kick out of it, but with enough admins taking heed to some kind of a cheater list they would have no place to express their feelings of joy, fame, and success ;)

Should people look around for cheaters trying to find ones for themselves, we'll ban their dumb asses too! What's the problem with that?

The main reason for my arguement is that I've seen more than a couple of cheaters on servers that I regularly play on, ones that I know are adminned by forum users. 3 of which are Blan's, Llama's, and FliesLikeABrick's servers. I've seen cheaters on all 3. 2 of these servers have passwords, so I believe that either public or manual report is the one way towards limiting cheats. Manual report being very slow and tedious. Many admins required multiple reports just to be sure of the cheaters' identities. If they were to be posted on a large, official, list on the forums, I believe the admins wouldnt take second guesses towards banning them.

Anyway, I do recognize that this is Styx' forum, and that this is his house, as Hitman put it. I'm not challenging his rules, but only their purpose and logic. Does that make more sense now?

karmazonpl
August 8, 2004, 6:19 am
I agree with Sniper

Weed
August 8, 2004, 6:21 am
quote:Originally posted by Cookie.
you can talk about them but dont post names in forums O_O give them specifically to the admins dna.styx michal etc. just dont post em hear


what for? they already know where to get the hacks, they dont need to ask some newby for them...

btw, whats the etc reffering to? "give them to styx, michal, and some other people around, just not to everyone... well, ya know what? give it to everyone..."

i really dont get the idea behind posting or not posting "hack and hackers reports" if you say their name, or if you dont, it wont change the fact they will keep hacking. and if someone wants a hack, all he has to do is search for it. its actually easier to find a carck then to find the game.

DeafBox
August 8, 2004, 9:16 am
quote:a) A cheater is named and its his real nick.
- Some ppl will probably flame him, some admins ban him.
But some ppls will go and ask for hax.
-> more cheaters

b) A cheater is named, but he played under a fake nick
- Some ppl will flame the person with that name,
some admins will ban him. FOR NOTHING, cause the cheater was an imposter, and the one originally carrying the name didnt do anything.
-> some unguilty person publicly declared for a cheater.

So which possibility do you prefer?

The system doesnt work like "dont talk bout them and they will leave", it actually is "dont give them fame and the problem wont increase".

It might be ok to post a cheaters name, if you can prove by 100% that the one cheating carried his real nick. But this not possible in 95% of the cases.

Ok, with the name thing my point was that they are normally changing names. Seriously how many well known hackers could u name?
I reckon i could prolly think of.......5 tops. But i swear in Aus not a day goes by that i dont see a hacker (i play most days). Assuming that there arent just masses and masses of hackers out there, these ppl most likely rotate names to avoid being banned. So posting up a name doesnt really matter.

I have a high reputation in Aus, yeah i know i sound like a tool but its true. Anyway, i have had a fair few imposters playing under my name. Most people recognise that isnt me due to my ping, the fact that they hack, that there [:-censored], they barret wateva. The point is its rather obvious that the person playing isnt me.

I can only see this sorta thing happening with the really well known players. Why would a hacker impersonate some random person no-one knows?

My point was rather simple. For as long as i can remember the policy in place has been to not talk about hackers and hope they go away. Well if u take a little look around u will realise that hackers are still here and certainly not going away. I would like to see a new policy which is more aggressive and not so passive to this serious problem.

Element_101
August 8, 2004, 9:22 am
I think Cookie nailed it.

Subslider
August 8, 2004, 10:19 am
i agree with both.. i dont think that you should post any names around here..

but what if ya would only post IPs?.. that way servers could ban them on start..

so if ya wanna report an IP, you would have to show evidence like a demo.. on which it will be an cheat or bug considerd.. if it would be an cheat the IP would go into some database and servers could download the file and that way keep the cheaters out..

as for the Dynamic IPs.. nothin you can do bout that..



this is the only thing we can do bout it, The rest we should leave to michal..

Hopes this makes sense to you all, Sub

ThaD
August 8, 2004, 10:21 am
>>f you state the cheaters name people will go looking for them to get the cheat themselves and that would just cause more problems -_-

thats so naive, I'd like to see these bunch of ppl rushing on servers looking for this cheater...like cheaters were playing 24h/day on the same server. This is such a stupid forum rule...

that fuking sniper
August 8, 2004, 10:57 am
If people wanted cheats, they wont have to look too long to find some. I've found at least 3 Soldat hacks on a site which I have reported to Michal. It took me less than a minute to find it from scratch. Those who want to cheat will do so with or without the presense of other cheaters. They dont need to ask around for hacks, they can just look for them, and many options will pop in seconds.

KnOt
August 8, 2004, 12:17 pm
I say get their names out in the open. They're the criminals of the soldat world.

Subslider
August 8, 2004, 12:34 pm
ìd say get an auto-ip-download system in soldat..
sort of auto-map-download, but then for servers and it transfers the IPs of cheaters..

an option like this should scare cheaters of..
play without cheats.. or never go online again..

morpheus
August 8, 2004, 1:12 pm
yeah, but if you put something like that in, and that "cheat kick" bug kicks in and sends your ip to every other server, you'd really crap yourself.

Darksider
August 8, 2004, 1:19 pm
Don't be angry at me, but I think Michal needs some PunkBuster? in the game...

But that way the game costs more, but I'll pay ANYTHING to get rid of cheaters.

Mielos
August 8, 2004, 1:58 pm
Every game has to deal with hackers , and You'll probably never have a Completly safe System . tough i think the best way to stop hackers is a account system , So you can reserve names , ban an account ... etc . Each accaunt is attached to an email adress (so you can't just make a new account in no time).

palloco
August 8, 2004, 2:47 pm
accounts sux

grand_diablo
August 8, 2004, 2:54 pm
quote:Originally posted by Subslider
i agree with both.. i dont think that you should post any names around here..

but what if ya would only post IPs?.. that way servers could ban them on start..

so if ya wanna report an IP, you would have to show evidence like a demo.. on which it will be an cheat or bug considerd.. if it would be an cheat the IP would go into some database and servers could download the file and that way keep the cheaters out..


This system is predestined to fail, as many ppl have dynamic IPs that changes every 24 hours.
And so there is also a chance that someone unguilty gets banned for no reason, just because he got the IP one day, the hacker had long ago.

pattoe
August 8, 2004, 6:18 pm
I have TKers hiding behind my name and other ppls names in my clan i would hate it if i and my clanmates were banned from the servers we go on, altho most ppl in real mode know that there is a really sad person who likes preteding to be members of Sithsoldiers

Hova
August 8, 2004, 7:06 pm
The cloning would be a problem, as stated before. Its just that people will see these persons named on the forum, then when/if they meet them, they will ask for the hack (if their Google skills suck that much...)

Kazuki
August 8, 2004, 9:27 pm
I think it would be a very good idea to make a new forum, in which only certain people have access to, very similar to the beta testing forums. There is a team of people who are trusted enough, to not go after hacks and cheats when they hear names. Almost the exact same as the beta-testing team. They are the trusted people of the forums, whom the next version of Soldat depends on. If a forum like this was created for discussions about hacks and cheaters. This way, these issues can be discussed more openly, but not so openly that it creates a danger to Soldat. I would also like to discuss things like this more often, and be able to talk all I want about it. A forum dedicated to the issue would be a place where those discussions can be locked up, and safe from the part of the community that will use it for evuuul.

Edit: *bump*

DeafBox
August 9, 2004, 1:11 am
Thats actually not a bad idea.

BManx2000
August 9, 2004, 1:23 am
I don't think saying cheater's names is a problem. If someone sees a cheater in-game, whether they know the name or not doesn't make a difference because it's not that hard to tell if someone is cheating (not to mention all the people yelling "CHEATER HAKS OMG!!!"). Besides, cheaters that are willing to give out their cheats would probably give them out even if nobody asks.

Hova
August 9, 2004, 2:27 am
Kazuki, why don't you do it in the beta testing forum then? Anyone who is "essential" [;D] to Soldat's development is already there. So why not just do it there?

Kazuki
August 9, 2004, 2:53 am
Hova, for two reasons:

1. The beta testing team needs some serious improvement. ;D
2. If it were to be held there, the discussions wouldn't be very open. I was hoping to have a more open forum than the beta testing forum, but nowhere near as open as any other forum, which is open to even that aren't registered.

Edit: This would require an amount of trust, which would be very interesting to see in these forums.

Hova
August 9, 2004, 4:58 am
The maturity level would also have to be a bit higher as well. It might be realized if there Styx doesn't object in any manner.

Kazuki
August 9, 2004, 6:09 am
Yeah, I PMed Styx. We'll see what he says. I think it'd be interesting to have discussions like this. It could be sort of like an evil Soldat Moments. :P

Yin_Starrunner
August 9, 2004, 11:51 pm
quote:Originally posted by Hova
Kazuki, why don't you do it in the beta testing forum then? Anyone who is "essential" [;D] to Soldat's development is already there. So why not just do it there?


asshole

Hova
August 10, 2004, 4:59 am
What did I say to make you respond like that Yin?

Social Poison
August 10, 2004, 5:15 am
Just a takes one to know one situation, I guess

Kazuki
August 10, 2004, 5:13 pm
Yin isn't in the beta testing team, and you said that the beta testing team are the ones that are essential to Soldat's development. ;) Neither am I, but you don't see me responding like that. Don't take it so seriously, Yin. Chill a little.

Hova
August 10, 2004, 5:51 pm
I put "essential" in quotation (like that) and put [;D]. If that doesn't show you what I really mean about the beta testers, I don't know what would. I am also not a part of the beta testing team. Read into the text a little more, than take it at face value :)

(its called Sarcasm if you still do not comprehend it)

Kazuki
August 10, 2004, 6:22 pm
Apparently, to some of us sarcasm sadly isn't humor.

Dathker
August 11, 2004, 2:53 am
stop arguing..... kaziunk has higher rank.. listen to him..but what about.. the people that no one likes... like me :(
maybe there should be a separate forum for people above a certain rank on the forums... that know what they are talkin about...

btw i wanna be a beta tester that would pwn!

Hova
August 11, 2004, 6:39 am
Uh, dath, I'm sorry, but you are not making any sense to me. First, I wasn't arguing with Kaz at all, it was just a bit of forum banter (I was arguing with Yin). Secondly, just because they have a higher rank does not mean I should bow down to them, understand?

:P

Unlucky 13
August 11, 2004, 10:44 am
quote:Originally posted by Subslider
... or never go online again..


[:-ashamed]im not allowed online no more, dad dont trust online gaming [:-weepn]

i think cheater ip's should be stop from going online, and then stopped from downloading soldat!

Element_101
August 11, 2004, 11:30 am
I would like to see a section of the forums only allicated to those who know if what there talking about.

Drama
August 11, 2004, 4:28 pm
There should be lower vote% in servers, also more active admins

Kazuki
August 11, 2004, 11:56 pm
Well, Dath, some of your assumptions are wrong. :) Hova knows what he's talking about, although his rank is lower than mine, so making a forum for people that have a rank that meets or exceeds a requirement would be absurd. =\ How much people like you shouldn't be compared to how much contribution you have to Soldat. Hove is right, just because I have a higher rank than him doesn't mean that I'm better. I PMed Styx about this, but he hasn't sent me a reply yet. =\

KiLLBoT
August 12, 2004, 2:22 am
/me agrees with Kaz. I have a low rank and I own all of you ^.^ kidding. Sorta :P

dr.ON
August 12, 2004, 6:33 am
I can give cheaters ip, can I?

Kazuki
August 12, 2004, 7:36 pm
... What? No, you can't post anything in the forums about cheaters and hacks. That's why I wanna start that whole new forum thing. :P

Dathker
August 13, 2004, 6:00 pm
quote:Originally posted by Hova
Uh, dath, I'm sorry, but you are not making any sense to me. First, I wasn't arguing with Kaz at all, it was just a bit of forum banter (I was arguing with Yin). Secondly, just because they have a higher rank does not mean I should bow down to them, understand?

:P


hah...alrighty...bow down bitch! just kiddin teheh

oooohh- new forum!

drama the admin's control the vote percentage...so you gotta contact all the admins so that they can do that... unless you have micheal set a lower default persentage... but then that if it was like only 3 people at 30% then it would be... dumb cuz one person could vote anyone out... but i would be good for large 10-12 person servers

Element_101
August 15, 2004, 10:11 am
Yes but Kaz anyone that would be worth coming in the forum would work there way up to a acceptiable post count, those that are not worth it would probably give up.

-Caldur-
August 19, 2004, 10:20 am
Perhaps they may get ideas and go looking for hacks such as the ones described on google or somewhere...