It's a tool for lame barret users, who can't aim.

All other weapons (maybe except Ruger) don't have the advantage so it's not fair.

I tried it once. Tried every gun but didn't notice any big advantage.

If it really does help someone that much that they need it, they really cant be that good with it anyway.

Lol the sniper line doesn't help that much.
so this idea is useless imo.

It helps to aim without shortening your view distace by putting your cursor directy on the enemy. That applies to all guns, BTW (I should know since I use all the guns and use the sniper line)

*puts on flame suit*

Most barreters use it, they just don't say about it because it is extremely lame and they know about it. And it IS helpfull. I played with a barreter once, he rejoined to turn on sniper line and he was 2 x better with it.

I tried it too and I claim that it helps if you use Barret - it helped me. With other weapons it's useless. Maybe you say that it doesn't help just to look cool or maybe it doesn't really help you but it does helps to some barreters.

So why some barreter may have the advantage?

But if it really doesn't help as you say, it's just a waste of space in options.

You sure know how to make your suggestion stand :D
I don't think much would change, but it's worth a try.I have it turned it on, but I barely notice it's there.

I have it on, it only helps a bit with some autos, for camping barreters its very helpful

quote:Originally posted by DeMonIc
I have it turned it on, but I barely notice it's there.


Maybe because you don't need/want to see it? Maybe you should mod the line to make it more visible, like some barretards do? Or maybe you just need better glasses, because I can see the line perfectly.

Agreed. Get the sniper line out of this game, Even with both of you peoples arguments, it isn't needed.

1) If it does help: Unfair for non-barret using players
2) If it doesn't help: Why having it in the game? might as well delete it.

hah hah seems like Aquarius got owned by a couple of barrets today and is out for revenge.

edit:*double post sorry*

edit2:I just asumed you had some barret problems today because of how snappy you seem.

hah hah I didn't even play Soldat today. Are you trying to be funny?


BTW... Actually it's B00stA's idea to remove the line ;P

I played Soldat for a long time before the sniper line came out in 1.2. Now I do use it and it helps me with most weapons, and I very rarely use the barret. The sniper line is useful because it shows your soldats position relative to the crosshair so you can easily predict the path of your shots without having to look back at the soldat. I really wouldn't care too much if the sniper line was removed, but I'll have to get used to oldies soldat shooting again. [:P]

Maybe the sniperline should be made a server-side option, so the admin can decide whether he wants it in his games or not.

Maybe we should reduce all the options and just make up our mind. I haven't seen any proper argument but bashing on the topic creater atm, so i'm still pretty convinced that removing the sniperline completely would be a good idea.

i think all the guns should be removed exept for nades and the socom

snipe line is so useless. if u dont got eyes to se were to shoot then keep training. its a n00bs shortcut.

While we're at it, lets remove the anti-cheat protection, it's not like it does anything. And the registration option, because I don't like it. And grenades, because everyone is 2x better with nades, so they are for n00bs.

... and the Stationary Guns, because they're for players that can't shoot if their family was held ransom, and Server Filters, because they don't give a big advantage.

Seriously, I do see Aquarius' point, but Aqua, we can't remove everything from Soldat. =\

Lets not.

For my money, I don't use it.
It's the ass end of useful, it's just a line going from your soldat to your crosshair... woot?

I don't know about you guys, but I already KNOW where my soldat and crosshair are! :P

quote:Originally posted by Michal
I played Soldat for a long time before the sniper line came out in 1.2.Actually the sniper line was implemented in 1.1.5 which was released 13 July 2003. I remember trying out the sniper line when it first came out, but then I quickly turned it off because I realized how much of a crutch it was becoming in only a short period of play.

I agree with Kevith, as well as the general idea of this thread. Take it out. Learn to get good with your precious barret or get over it. As for using it with other guns...never seen it be of any use in my own experience, so I can't say I agree with the alternative line of reasoning.

quote:Originally posted by frogboy
While we're at it, lets remove the anti-cheat protection, it's not like it does anything. And the registration option, because I don't like it. And grenades, because everyone is 2x better with nades, so they are for n00bs.
quote:Originally posted by Kazuki
... and the Stationary Guns, because they're for players that can't shoot if their family was held ransom, and Server Filters, because they don't give a big advantage.

Seriously, I do see Aquarius' point, but Aqua, we can't remove everything from Soldat. =
WTF?! Did I say to remove all these things from Soldat? If you don't have any real arguments don't say anything.

rofl who the f*ck uses the sniper line anyway..

snipers

karmazonpl, please spierdalaj kurwo bicz. ;]
like someone said, if someone needs sniper line to get better with any weapon he's just sad and probably really low skilled..
so sure take it off, nobody will care, my point was that 99% of the gaming community forgot about that feature by now.

my point is 99% of barretards use it and get an unfair bonus to their skills

quote:Originally posted by Aquarius
WTF?! Did I say to remove all these things from Soldat? If you don't have any real arguments don't say anything.


WTF?! Did I say you said to remove those things from Soldat? I'm saying Sniper Line is about as useful as those things, why not take them out too? If that isn't an argument, what is?

That isn't really an argument, Tell us WHY it is as useful as those things, prove that -_-

I already did explain... they aren't useful. Simple as that.

No, u didn't. Your explanation is crap.

quote:lets remove the anti-cheat protection, it's not like it does anything
It does. I have seen cheaters kicked by it. Without the protection there would be 10x more hacks.

quote:And the registration option, because I don't like it.
So?

quote:And grenades, because everyone is 2x better with nades
Exactly. Everyone may be better with nades, not only barret/ruger users.

I use the sniper line in all my online and offline games. I've also modded it to be 2 pixels wide and solid red, so I could see it easier. I think that it is a tool that all players should take advantage of. People who say that it is useless are wrong completely. It certainly has it's uses, but perhaps that certain player *cough*Aquarius*cough* is used to NOT using it or just doesn't like how it makes the game easier for people who do. If that player wishes to make the game more challenging/realistic/whatever for himself, then let him continue not using the sniper line. However, don't allow him to ruin the experience of other players who do use it. I will admit that it gives an unfair advantage to some player, expecially barretards. However, If some players learned to also use the line for what it's worth, than that advantage can be diminshed and the game would once again be balanced. I think that the majority of online players use sniper line, and that includes anyone, not just snipers. It certainly helps with aiming distances and makes Soldat more approachable to new players. My 2 cents.

^I agree 100%^

i think the sniper line is like training wheels; nooby. i use m79 so there's not much of an advantage using the snipe line, but it just promotes barretarding. if new players don't go the HK, then their second choice is usually the barret backed up with the user friendly snipe line. if the snipe line was removed, i'd bet my left testicle the number of good barreters would just about halve.

Would you like a women to perform the operation or are you more comfortable witha male doing your vasectomy?

ok maybe not half, prolly only an eighth, and a decent sized decline in good barretards.

I like it, and im not agree with removing it!!!

quote:Originally posted by Aquarius
It's a tool for lame barret users, who can't aim.

All other weapons (maybe except Ruger) don't have the advantage so it's not fair.


I dont know about that. I've tried it twice, whenever I tried it I couldnt hit jack sh*t. I do better without it, for one.

quote:
quote:lets remove the anti-cheat protection, it's not like it does anything
It does. I have seen cheaters kicked by it. Without the protection there would be 10x more hacks.
It kicks legitimate players, not cheaters.

It kicks both, but when a cheater is on, he does tend to have a bigger chance to get kicked as far as i've seen.

Ive been kicked 'cuz of anti-cheat, but I dont cheat... I would guess its a lag bug...

quote:Originally posted by Ville Mk.2
I tried it once. Tried every gun but didn't notice any big advantage.



True that line make me shoot worse [:-hypnotized]

Generic idea response sheet V1.0, by Jay. Loosely based on the "Generic spam solution response sheet"

(feel free to revise add, but send a copy to me at jd0gg7@yahoo.com)

Your post advocates a

( ) Balance Issue ( ) Feature addition (x) Feature Subtraction

to soldat. It will be rejected unfairly (most times without any consideration) by

( ) Hardcore DM purists (x) Barretards ( ) People who fear change ( ) N00b Bashers

On the basis of/With the argument that/because (One or more of the following may apply to your particular idea)

( ) It would never work. (without posting an argument as to why)
( ) Your spelling/grammar sucks (has little to do with the merit of your idea, but it WILL be used against you)
( ) You failed to post any arguments as to why it would be a good idea.
( ) It would take too long (even though updates take months and no one seems to mind waiting)
( ) It would be full of bugs (even though we have a beta process to fix that)
( ) Your idea was not clear enough, or was too vague and will be attackable on many points.
(x) It would require some people to have to learn to use a new gun, and they wont like that.
(x) It would piss of too many "INSERT GROUP" and require that they change their winning strategy
( ) It's too much like an already existing gun/feature/mode.
( ) Because this "Isn't CS j00 n00bz0rz"
( ) Because it doesn't stay to true the "spirit of Soldat", whatever the hell that is (explanation wont
be provided.)
( ) It's too "arcade". (pisses off tactical/strategic players)
( ) It's too "sim/realistic" (pisses off DM purists, aka "Quake refugees")
( ) I say so (in other words, no argument could be formed, usually get this from the fear change people.)
( ) It would splinter the community and form too many "niche groups"
( ) It would "over complicate the game"
( ) It would "over simplify the game"
( ) The fascist moderates already made a sticky saying you can't talk about this (mods USUALY fall into
one of the groups mentioned above.)

and the following philosophical objections may also come up:

( ) Ideas similar to yours are easy to come up with, yet none have ever been shown practical, or have
been implemented.
( ) It takes too long for large changes such as your to take hold, and the road is hard. It will be
squashed by someone/thing before it is even considered.
( ) Your idea it too drastic, and any rational thought from either side will be drowned out by the
childish flames, threats, and name calling.

Furthermore, this is what I think about you:

(x) Good idea, it would work if it weren't' for some group(s) blocking progress.
( ) Sorry dude, but I don't think it would work.
( ) This is a stupid idea, and you're a stupid person for suggesting it.
( ) Nice try, assh0le! I'm going to find out where you live and burn your
house down!

You need to get out buddy..

... Hitman is right, FrogboY and Kazuki win with sarcasm and this is probably one of the most pointless threads i've ever seen; It's simple, you don't like it? Don't use it, if nobody uses it, it would be less of a hassle to keep it there.

quote:It's simple, you don't like it? Don't use it
It's not a matter of likes / dislikes. It's a mattter of game balance. Should this game be balanced as much as possible or not? Why there is a feature which works the best for barret users and is usefull mostly for them, especially for camping barreters? Isn't the Barret powerfull enough?

quote: FrogboY and Kazuki win with sarcasm
Oh, I didn't know it's a sarcasm competition.

Funny, but I don't feel like beaten by FrogboY's and Kazuki's sarcasm. Actually sarcasm is an proof of the lack of real arguments.

After spending some time playing the game with the sniper line on and testing various weapons, I really feel that it doesn't help out with weapons aside from Ruger or Barret. As for this being an issue of fairness...I've changed my opinion. I think it's fair to leave it in there...if you're using the barret or ruger, you'll have to get an eye for the shots anyway. The sniper line does nothing but connect the soldat to the crosshairs..as for the arc of the bullet and all that jazz, that's all in the players head. Leave it in there...I could really care less now [;)]

there's a nipple in options 'sniper line (on/off)' put if 'off' and you won't have to use it anymore.

wowjesushellthat'sgoodthankyouinquisitoryou'reourheroandyouwillsaveusfrometernalstupidity

quote:there's a nipple in options 'sniper line (on/off)' put if 'off' and you won't have to use it anymore.

No shit sherlock!

quote:wowjesushellthat'sgoodthankyouinquisitoryou'reourheroandyouwillsaveusfrometernalstupidityHAHAHA

Hahah, well, so, they get a TINY FRACTION of an advantage, it's not like they need to aim anyway, they just jump in, point blank range, fire, you're dead, I bet that around 10% of the barreters use it for sniping, so a tiny advantage + small amount of people = NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.
If you spend more time whining about the game than actually playing it, stop playing. Sheesh.

Who mentioned a sarcasm competition? This thread is probably one of the most pointless threads i've ever seen here. It. Is. A. Line.

I think what it really comes down to is Aquarius wanting to nerf the barrett without saying "nerf the barrett".

Yeah, it seems that way. *sigh*

If you think there is too many Barreters in your country, come to Australia, it's full of illiterate jerks who not only use the barret and M79 endlessly, they hack.

Theres also a thing called "patience" where you either stop playing untill the next version, or you just PLAY for fun, and get better, and before you know it, DING! It's fixed.

Stop babbling LazehBoi.

Nah, I guess Aquarius is just subconciously making too big a deal out of this. As I said before, he had a good point, but that isn't enough. He needs a good purpose.

Also, sarcasm isn't proof that I have no argument. Sarcasm is hiding my point somewhere within my humor.

BabbleBabbleBabbleBabbleBabbleBabbleBabbleBabbleBabbleBabbleBabbleBabbleBabble

Yeah, that is babble, random poop that has no purpose, sounds alot like this thread. *Yawns*

I was implying that you have it lucky, but complaining about a sniper line is looow.
If you hate the barret that much, play on a LAN or over the internet with people you locally know who don't use the barret, and perhaps play Realistic mode while you're at it.

It's about removing the sniperline, Don't go off topic...

quote:Originally posted by LazehBoi
If you spend more time whining about the game than actually playing it, stop playing. Sheesh.

should this really come from YOU ?

Calm down ppl.
I think Michal will leave it in, cause it isn't worth the commotion that is now around it.
But, it only gives an advantage if u edit it, so maybe it should have a narrower size limit, so even if u make a minor edit in it, it won't let u play online.
Happy now?

How about, let the server decide if the players can use it? I know that ESL has a rule that sniperline HAS to be disabled, that's pretty hard to check if it is when the only check you have is a screenshot. Now when the player has his sniperline enabled, and the server doesn't allow it, the player just wouldn't see the sniperline. How about that?

I like Denacke's idea. The thing about the sniper line is, it makes Soldat more newbie-friendly, but in a different way. I think it should stay, because as you said, Aqua, it doesn't give a big advantage, but at the same time, it makes the game a little unfair. I think that it makes the game just a bit more balanced. When you're a newbie, and you're up against all the good players we have today, it's hard to manage. I guess it's all up to people's tastes. Some people like the sniper line, and others don't.

The sniper line is not only useful for barret and ruger. It's also useful for LAW and rambo bow!
(looks back and thinks that might not be the greatest argument...)

I'm starting to see their side of the argument:
The use of the sniper line is that it is used for SNIPING. Autos all fire relatively fast compared to the two rifles. This allows players to adjust their aim on the fly withought having to cease fire, diminshing the use of a sniper line for them. Deagles have high power, fire pretty damn fast, and reloads quickly too. Same argument applies for them as well. Spas is theoretically a short range weapon, so the sniper line is pretty useless. Also, because of how the bullets arc a lot, it would be even more useless to have the line. The shot also covers a large are so the sniper line is even more useless. M79 doesn't use line much either because of it's insane arc, but since it's such a powerful weapon anyways, it seems a bit superfluous wouldn't it? Now we come to the rifles. Both of them are high damage, slow firing guns with minimum arcs, making them the perfect sniper weapons. Normally, without the sniper line, the player would be required to keep the point of the aiming reticle on the target to ensure accuracy. This is really hard with a moving target. But, with a sniper line, the player now has to keep his target somewhere on the line instead of just in one point. This is much easier and kind of defeats the purpose of sniping, which is PRECISION shooting, requiring very good aim. With the line, any n00b with a barret and a good hiding space can rack up kills like they own the server.

Why would you want to take out a feature? That's sort of backwards.

That does depend if the feature is good or bad..

quote:Originally posted by Elephant_Hunter
Why would you want to take out a feature? That's sort of backwards.
Sometimes less is more. Think about it [;)]

Well, I'll let you guys decide if it's good or bad. I'm just saying that if he made the feature to begin with, why would he remove it? That's like asking to make modding impossible b/c someone could 'unfairly' make all players have big, red targets as heads.

Edit : Hmm... not a half bad idea.

Best solution I've seen this entire 4 page thread is make sniper line a server-side function.

That way it caters to both sides...you don't like ppl using the sniper line? play in the servers where it's disabled...

You need sniper line to help you out...play in servers where it's enabled...

You don't care either way like myself, play in any server...

It's a nice compromise I must say.

I agree, it would be the best solution. So all the tournaments etc could be more fair.

I concur. [:D]

Topic locked.

Is the sniper line the line that starts at your Soldat, fades, then reappears near the crosshair?

YES, turn it off quickly in the Options tab inside Soldat.
I have never used the sniper line because of my funny medival computer.

And I will never use it either. Real killers can kill without a lousy line.

I tried using the sniper line and camping with a barret. I found it does help, cos with the sniper line you can make sure that your bullet wont collide with anything before it hits its target. I like the sniper line and I dont want it to be removed.

Is there some reason we're still discussing this? If you looked at the compromise and liked it, then good. Otherwise, well go away [:P]

Ooooook, so I looked more into this, and edited my sniper line so it is seeable like a laser sight.
So i say it should be server sided as stated above, and make it that even the minimum of changes in the line won't let u play online.

quote:Originally posted by Toumaz
YES, turn it off quickly in the Options tab inside Soldat.
I have never used the sniper line because of my funny medival computer.

And I will never use it either. Real killers can kill without a lousy line.


Well said, but not everyone is built for it, which is exactly why the sniper line should stay. I find that Demonic's and Denacke's ideas really even this topic out.

I never really used it xpt when i was barretard and it makes a lot easier to aim