First of all, why do people duel in Soldat? Certainly not for fun. Each player retreats back and forth. One player sits on the top level while the other sits on the bottom. They watch each other, waiting for the other guy to make a move. The game is in a constant stalemate. If someone gets damaged badly, he kills himself before the other guy is able to finish him off. After about 15 minutes of this bull, the game is maybe tied at 10-10. That isn't what I call fun, that's what I call BORING.

Obviously, people duel because they think, "if I win, I'm better." Bull. Most of the time, a duel takes place on a non-dedicated server. That means while one guy has 0 ping, the other guy is getting screwed over. Even with 50-100 ping, the guy running the server will warp all over the place and have the advantage. Another thing, duels are almost always played on DM maps, most of which were designed for at least 5 players.

But what really irks me is this delusion that a duel determines skill. Pacing around passively in an empty DM map and masturbating your precision is not what real Soldat is like, so why would it determine how good a player you are? Soldat is fast-paced and excessive: you gain momentum, you spam nades, you get multi-kills, you steal flags, you spawnkill the newbies faster than everyone else. That's what Soldat is, and it's much funner than any duel. Observing someone in a real CTF or DM match with other players is a much better measurement of how good someone is.

I like duels.

Um.. duels are fun.

And if I win (several) duels over a person, wouldn't it mean that I'm better?

I agree with you for the most part................ but I still think that a duel can prove a percentage of a skill. You need skill to use weapons in CTF effectively, but you also need skill to win in a duel.

Most guns are boring to duel with. However, I find m79 duels extremely fun......

Anyways, to finish, duels prove some skill with a weapon, but thaaaat much.

I agree with Snowden, but as marb said m-79 duels are the ownage.

Duels don't mean anything, but what weapon you use does.

Snowden, if thats what you think is a real duel in Soldat, well, dunno. Watch 1on1s in the ESL 1on1 Soldat Ladder. I've played many months in this ladder, and it most often wasn't like you describe it. For sure there are 'special' players that just camp and hide, but most often the matches are quite 'aggressive' and don't take too much time. The only thing I dislike is how you have a huge advantage when you're up. But since you can't decide where you start, you can't control if you're up or down all the time. This gives it a feel of an arcade deathmatch shooter for me. Like Quake 3 or Doom 3, where the game isn't really about having the best aim, but more about having the best weapon at first, what I don't like. That's too much luck for me, and same is in Soldat 1on1s, where it's mostly luck if you're up. But except this point and the too many barrets in the ladder I found it quite funny. But I realized how much funnier, more exciting and more intense clanwars are than duels.

indeed
m79 duels are the best.
i myself enjoy dueling people i love playing with
there arent much of them, but i duel only them, dueling someone seeking glory is stupid.
dueling to win, and doing anything requested in order to win, is just... well... noobish.

duels are fun if barret and automatics are not used

Duels are nothing but firefight practice. If you win, you're only 'proving' that you're better that winning a 1 on 1 firefight. I don't see how it proves that you can very easily steal a flag, or outsmart a whole team. "Whoohoo, I shoot better than you, bow down to me!"

Well, duels are good to test someones 'kill-skills'.
And 'kill-skills' are the basis of all other 'soldat-skills'.
It's hard to say if you're generally better than someone if you beat him/her several times in duels, what you could say is that your aiming, your kill-skills is/are better developed than your opponent when you won a duel (or more duels).

duels tests aim + individual tactics...

yes. duels only represent the shooting skills. ctf includes the teamwork, tactics and also shooting.

ak duels are fun

quote:Originally posted by Kazuki
Duels are nothing but firefight practice. If you win, you're only 'proving' that you're better that winning a 1 on 1 firefight. I don't see how it proves that you can very easily steal a flag, or outsmart a whole team. "Whoohoo, I shoot better than you, bow down to me!"


i cant see why people bring CTF mode into DM duels.
duels show DM skills, isnt that obvious ?

Barret and M79 duels are awesome.

Duels with autos and semi-autos = who gets to medkits first
Duels with one shot weapons = hide n seek, first who makes a bad move loses.
That's what happens in most duels. That's what i call lame tactics, or cautious attacker - i stopped doing duels long ago because, being an aggressive attacker mostly, i can't stand waiting for the guy to stop shooting with some auto trough that narrow passage blocking me, or waiting behind that rock with a m79/barret and end up losing in most cases. Because that's what most people do (not all, luckily), and i find it extremely boring and annoying.

I like Deagle, M79, and Socom duels...those are fun. Anything else is just bleh...

But honestly speaking, I don't really duel...my "duels" are basically...

I encounter someone in CTF one on one and neither of us have a barret/knife/law

I still think that duels have to be in survival mode, no medikits and only grenade kits.
That way:
- There can be no medikit laming, Each time one person has killed the other, both gain full health again.
- It's a more fair messurement, Because each respawn all have full health.

I don't see any negative points, but i never managed to play a duel like that either.

REALISTIC survival mode creates the best duels. Especially with the following weapons:
deagles
spas
minimi
and all secondaries

M79 matches are fun 2 and [Knife & Socom only] games are really fun.

Often I have m79 duels if I see someone that has a good amount of skill in a ctf i'll ask them. I do it because it gives a change to the constant noob bashing im used to in ctf's. I really enjoy playing a skillfull player because then I can compare myself to them in the match. Win or lose I get a good idea of my skill. So i'd say I duel to determine my skill.....anyone can cap all the time in ctf's and get a great score but being able to win duels against decent playeers involves more skill i'd say anyway.

quote:Originally posted by Meandor
<FONT COLOR="#FFCCFF" SIZE="-2" FACE="Verdana">Duels with autos and semi-autos = who gets to medkits first
Duels with one shot weapons = hide n seek, first who makes a bad move loses.
That's what happens in most duels. That's what i call lame tactics, or cautious attacker - i stopped doing duels long ago because, being an aggressive attacker mostly, i can't stand waiting for the guy to stop shooting with some auto trough that narrow passage blocking me, or waiting behind that rock with a m79/barret and end up losing in most cases. Because that's what most people do (not all, luckily), and i find it extremely boring and annoying.</FONT>


Survival mode -> no medkit or nadepacks

quote:Originally posted by Jaz
Often I have m79 duels if I see someone that has a good amount of skill in a ctf i'll ask them. I do it because it gives a change to the constant noob bashing im used to in ctf's. I really enjoy playing a skillfull player because then I can compare myself to them in the match. Win or lose I get a good idea of my skill. So i'd say I duel to determine my skill.....anyone can cap all the time in ctf's and get a great score but being able to win duels against decent playeers involves more skill i'd say anyway.
I agree.

I already said duels sux. Me with 200 ping and an auto weapon, the other with nondedicated server(therefore he speeds up away from me when i fire) and barret. How could this be fun or anthing?

Well maybe if your a mazohist or somethin it might be fun palloco xD

quote:Originally posted by SuperKill
i cant see why people bring CTF mode into DM duels.
duels show DM skills, isnt that obvious ?


Ok, I'll prove my point without CTF.

Hey, let's go into a DM server and do the same thing we do in duels! Like, OMG! I'm just gonna stand on top of FlashBack and wait for my prey to attack me so that I'll have the upper level advantage! OH FFS!!! I GOT KILLED FROM BEHIND! OMFG! Let's snipe then! Haha, I killed you! ACK! Facking double teamed.

Tell me if you need more.

quote:Originally posted by PsylentShadow
I encounter someone in CTF one on one and neither of us have a barret/knife/law

But having a one on one knife duel in the middle of a firefight is fun. :)

quote:But having a one on one knife duel in the middle of a firefight is fun. :)
Exactly why i play soldat xD (xcept I already throw my knife when my enemy is still changin weps xD)

quote:Originally posted by Kazuki
Ok, I'll prove my point without CTF.

Hey, let's go into a DM server and do the same thing we do in duels! Like, OMG! I'm just gonna stand on top of FlashBack and wait for my prey to attack me so that I'll have the upper level advantage! OH FFS!!! I GOT KILLED FROM BEHIND! OMFG! Let's snipe then! Haha, I killed you! ACK! Facking double teamed.

pfft, maybe that's what YOU will do. other people.. you know they..um.. actually fight ? cant blame you tho, this forum mostly encourage camping.
this is exactly why duels are needed, if that's your attitude about duels, i cant say i'm surprised to see you hate them.

Well, the main reason I don't like duels is because they put me under pressure. Now, I don't know, it could be just me. I don't like being under pressure. I wouldn't be in a clan either, if the pressure was just as bad. The other reason I don't like them is that they prove absolutely nothing. Put the two together, and you get the fact that duels aren't fun most of the time and they prove nothing. And no, I don't camp. :P I'd be the last person you'd find camping, lol.

if it's a nice open map like bunker, it can be fun. but a map with 100 places to hide behind, and chasing someone all over the place? forget it.

Knifing for me has to be premeditated...haha...I rarely use it, I will go into knife specific servers is what i mean by premeditated...but yeah, fun nonetheless...

Yeah....dueling can often turn into a game of who-dares-to-step-out-behind-a-wall-first. I'd imagine it depends on the weapons involved though. With m79 duels you can attack and still dodge the slow incoming projectile, so stepping into the fray isn't quite so suicidal... probably why people enjoy them in particular.

So yeah, a duel won't always prove who's the best at accuracy or maneuvers, when a player can just keep backing off and hiding while waiting for the opponent to follow them in, or hover around a medikit.

One thing I never got about duels though... why don't people use survival mode? That way whenever a person dies, the other player's health is restored to standard. That way you could remove medikits from the game so no one gets topped-up mid-kill.

I find Knifing duels the most exciting. The only duel where an m79 is fun to use is against another m79, if you m79 duel an auto, then it's auto-gay. ¦/

Yesh Chakra! that is exactly what i meant.
survival mode for duals! hooray!

You can't compair apples to oranges...an auto versus a barret, 0 ping vs 100 ping. With all the "what ifs" aside, two people dueling it out on a server does prove something...it proves whos better. But there is a large difference between going in to a server with the intention to prove you're better, and finding out that you're better through the course of a duel. I don't know about you Snowden, but what really irks me are the idiots who think they're good because they spawnkill and rock n00bs. Such practices are just pathetic. Spawn killing has its place (i.e. buying some time if you grab a flag and kill some people who are spawning nearby). Soldat is fast paced, yes...excessive, maybe...but people play this game differently than you. Try thinking of a strategy to kill them instead. If you want a true duel, make it an even playing field (as much as possible, of course)..no medkits, dedicated server, etc. If you can't get things like you want them, don't duel...prattle on about how unfair it is. If people hide or run, that's their vice...no defense is perfect, you can't hide forever. Running into your opponents attacks every time is no reason to go and cry "duels are useless, they prove nothing". If you camp, then camp..but you better be able to deal with the people that will jump past your defenses and engage in close combat. If you're one for close combat, then learn to fake out the snipers and others...just because they have a one shot weapon doesn't mean they'll hit you. I for one hate fighting barreters because they can kill you so quickly, so easily...but that doesn't mean I give up and cry about it. I might bitch and moan about them barreting...but I'll come back as many times as I need to to figure out what their weakness is. I duel for fun, contrary to what you want to believe. Games that slip into a stalemate are your fault too. If you call it so boring then don't duel...easy as that.

Snowden is right. That is all

Oh and I thought the object of DM was to kill people by any means possible. If it's rocking newbies or spawnkilling, so what. It doesn't take much skill to play this game anyway and to spawnkill probably is as low as tactics go, BUT IT STILL WORKS. Why don't you guys do yourself a favour and realise that the whole point of playing DM is to try and reach the kill count, rather than having this stupid little thing called honor. [:-censored] em, [:-censored] you too if you think honor is what matters in a game because you're just lying to yourself.

Duels were never my strong point, I was always the guy who would just rush in and kill regardless because it would be boring otherwise. Put me in ANY server with ANYONE though and I will be in the top 3 at least every time. Why? Because differant tactics come into play, IE, the things Snowden listed, the nade spamming, the spawncamping, the n00b hunting and just generally trying to kill campers off because they are the easiest targets in the world. [:-censored] you with your fake rules, there is only one rule in DM when it comes to playing and thats to kill everything and win.

When i Duel i don't sit thier i'm the one that goes after the guy...[;)]

Duels dont mean anything if u win woohoo if u lose woohoo.
I Remember someone ask me to duel him,and i agrred.
We play in his server witch i had ping 100-150(like the first post said) and he was warping like hell.
After 2 games that I won 1 and he won 1 we played in my server and there he lose 30-17.
In his server i lost 30-24 and won 15-11.
Anyway..duel are fun only if u play with ur friends.

I recently had a duel with TFS, having a barrett war.

It was damned fun. Why? Because it was a tense match and neither of us camped like little b*tches. If you want a duel to be fun, both combatants should move around a lot.

Me and TFS were constantly moving, getting extremely long kills that we both knew was a result of great aiming.

------

I also agree with Superkill. Why the f*ck are you comparing CTF skills with DM skills? Sure, they share certain skills, but thats like saying in Counter-Strike in a 1-on-1 match "you suck at defusing the bomb." It makes no f*cking sense.

I agree with The Geologist as well, as you must set aside all "variations" if you want them to mean anything. Evenly matched ping, same weapon, etc.

quote:Originally posted by Icarius
Put me in ANY server with ANYONE though and I will be in the top 3 at least every time.

I heard that from at least 8 guys. Lets put them together and see the 5 liars.

Killing by any means may seem like the way it should be, but I prefer to believe in a thing dramatically called 'honourable combat.' I never lurk and hide to excess, always try to present myself to the opponent so the game doesn't get dull, and I always give the enemy a fighting chance. Otherwise I feel I don't deserve the frag.

Although saying that, the tensest duel I had was for money ($5...it made a difference). The opponent sometimes resorted to camping in bushes with a barret, but I kept to my fair play and using all guns...naturally I whined towards the end, so the game was slightly fairer now that I could see him though he did resort to stalemate maneuvers, but it was still fun despite him trying every sneaky trick in the book.

...Although I probably wouldn't be saying that if i'd lost...

Denacke is right.. And if you don't want the person you're dueling to have 0 ping, can't you find someone else to host?! I host duels for people all the time.. It's only going to be a 10 or 15 minute game so why not? Did Snowden just lose a duel when he made this topic or something? To say they prove nothing is just stupid. How could 2 people doing their best to win against one another prove nothing? Whoever wins, wins.

Only 8? you must be lucky...

Icarius - Sure spawnkilling, barret-camping, and n00b hunting can get you points faster, but wouldn't that take all the fun from soldat. Imagine if you played in a server with all n00bs. If you're reasonably good, you should be able to win almost all the time. It'd probably be fun for a while, but wouldn't it get a bit boring after a while? If I wanted to kill mindless enemies with crap aim, I'd play single player. The whole reason of playing online is to COMPETE against skilled players to test how good you are yourself. The tension and excitement of the match is what makes Soldat so fun. And, there really is no better environment to conduct these competitions than in duels.

There's a large difference between milking a pathetic tactic (i.e. spawnkilling) and actual skill. If people would earn their kills and refrain from being spawn camping cowards they might realize that. Too bad we're not talking about a DM here...we're talking about a duel. Durr.

quote:Originally posted by papasurf31

Icarius - Sure spawnkilling, barret-camping, and n00b hunting can get you points faster, but wouldn't that take all the fun from soldat. blah blah blah *snip*


What is your point exactly, if you didn't read Snowden's post properly then you will realise that there is next to no skill when you play soldat. It's point and click mayhem basically and you can't deny that there is some skill to playing it. CTF is completly [:-censored]ing differant too and whoever said it wasn't needs to play a clan match or something and understand the differance. As soon as you grasp soldat, you understand that some weapons work great in differant modes. Any of the machine gun bar the Mini are [:-censored]ing awesome in Realistic, all you need to do is judge the speed of your target and shoot where you need to. Tapping the mouse doesn't [:-censored] your aim up thanks to the recoil so you can see what I mean.

I played DM for a long [:-censored]ing time btw and I've played with a [:-censored]load of good people in the past, I think i'd know whether or not if I was good since I was in the top 3 all the time.

Most of the times I end up in a duel is because I have pissed someone off (or visa versa). What can I say? I'm an unapologetic bad boy and really don't give two sh*ts about other people's opinions.

Duels are just one segment of the skill it takes to be good in Soldat. It tests your ability to down another oponent before he can get you. But what about running? That's critical for CtF. Or the ability to kill someone "on the fly"? Which is important in inf.

The skills that make up a good Soldat player are wide spread... much more so than just what can be seen in a duel.

If someone is pissing you off and challenges you to a duel (or visa versa) then just point to the score. That's all you need to reference too if you need a numbered way to be better than someone.

-----

Now... on boring duels. The only duels I find boring are when a barret is used.

THIS IS NOT MY TYPICAL ANTI-BARRET STUFF

The Barret in terms of 1v1 fighting is vastly superior to the other weapons. So if one person decides to switch to barret, then the other person is more or less forced to, or they'll just get owned. In every duel I've fought in recent memory, the barret was outlawed from the start (This being because I mainly get in fights with auto users... I guess we're just more angry).

Auto duels tend not to be so... campish. and m79 duels are just plain FUN.

Anyways... yea... in short duels are not the ultimate test of skill

quote:Originally posted by Icarius

What is your point exactly, if you didn't read Snowden's post properly then you will realise that there is next to no skill when you play soldat. It's point and click mayhem basically and you can't deny that there is some skill to playing it.


You're not making sense...you just contradicted yourself. lmfao...when did this become a personal attack on you Icarius? I don't need to hear about what you've done or how good you are...this is a discussion about dueling. I agree with your comments about the various modes of play, however, as well as the fact that Soldat isn't a hard game. On the other hand, what you're saying about Soldat and what Snowden is saying about Soldat are two different things. His arguement pertains to judging how good someone is at playing this game that you claim is oh-so simple. You're running your mouth with four letter words and barking loudly. You give me a headache.

quote:Originally posted by Icarius
there is next to no skill when you play soldat.

how come you suck then ? :P
hihihih

quote:Originally posted by The Geologist
quote:Originally posted by Icarius

What is your point exactly, if you didn't read Snowden's post properly then you will realise that there is next to no skill when you play soldat. It's point and click mayhem basically and you can't deny that there is some skill to playing it.


You're not making sense...you just contradicted yourself. lmfao


[:-censored], made an error.
quote:Originally posted by Icarius
It's point and click mayhem and you can't say that there is some skill to playing it.


That makes the most sense.

Still... You made no contribution to the discussion, just pointed out that you are in the top 3 "every game."

congrats

quote:Originally posted by SuperKill
quote:Originally posted by Icarius
there is next to no skill when you play soldat.

how come you suck then ? :P
hihihih


OWNED!

HELL YEA

Very own't.

Bordering on Pwnt.

Duels without barret/m79 are good




































Im NOT going to turn this into an antibarret/m79 thread

M79 duels its the funnest thing ever!

They aint funny, their tense and cool. thats why i play them.

Duels are not about sheer skill and aim. They are about wit and cleverness. In fact, 90% of whatever determines the outcome of Pro vs. Pro duels goes down to cleverness and wit. You can make traps, lure your opponent into attacking, then quickly pulling a planned move. You can make the initiative and still win. If you do that, then you're clever. The stalemate you talk about, Snowden, is what happens when 2 players sit in defensive positions and neither wants to make the initiative. The true skill is to do so and win anyway. Most people really dont think on the lines of "If I do this, what will the other guy do", and dont even try to decieve, make traps, and lure the opponent into making a fatal actio/reaction, thats the art of duels. M79 duels are the usual incarnation of what I'm talking about, but skill can be mixed with wit in all situations, with all weapons. Its only that the majority doesnt see the opprotunities that are present in each weapon, and each map to that matter. Anyway, as we are talking about fun - No one person can really put a solid rule on what's fun and what's not. It's all about what you feel like doing, and what you allow to appeal to you that is apparently fun. You like the monotanous back-and-forth nature of CTF, and the constant ramapage and carnage, I cant blame you, I love it too, I'm sure almost everyone in Soldat does, but dont let the fun of the norm block your intellect from other options. Duels do show skill and tactical genius with some, and dullness with others. The fact that the majority isnt really smart when it comes to out-of-the-norm duels which consist of things other than the routinely CTF, doesnt mean that duels are always dull and boring.

lol
off course a duel show who is a better player...
but if u tlak better player for ctf there it ist cause playing in a team is diferent yu have o play for the team not for yourself

and duels are fun :D

it dusn't really show who is the best player cuz someone can be verry bad in 1vs1 and really great when more players in the game

You can beat someone in Duels but lose to him in CTF game.
Its just the game style that player got used to.

Chainsaw duels roxors. =) Also baretta and knife duels

baretta ??? you mean ussocom or barret ??

Eh, sorry Snow, I can't whole-heartedly agree with you on this one. I recall one match between you and I in a CTF server that came down to just you and me, the only players in the map. It was a close match, but in the end your aim proved to be more consistant than mine.

Maybe you guys are just dueling different people than I have, but I've never had any problems doing a mid to long distance battle, and decent ones I might add, against weapons that range from the SOCOMM to the Barett.

I personaly like duals as long as its hosted on a D/server were no one has a advantage. While I do think that M79's are by far the best. I have to say I quite like barret duals as well, while its only the person with the quicker reflexes that wins barret duals its still intence and fun, in my opinion anyway.

Duels are fun with friends who yu know, like some who are at the same school. My favorite modes in Soldat are ctf,dm,infiltration and pointmatch. Of course, every mode requires different tactics from the players. Duels are fun because usually everyone see's from it, that the winner is better than him. ofcourse, in ctf, yu usually have own guys on yur team and that whould require more different tactics. Duels are like an old 'tradition' where 2 players check out which of them is better than the other. but remember, one game-mode does not solve that question, that the winner is also better in all of the game-modes cause he won yu in a duel/dm. Everyones better in different game-modes. also it usually depends upon the opponent, who yu are playing against.

intense, closely matched duels are always fun, even if played cat and mouse. blowouts only serve to boost self-esteem, which I'll take as well

In duels, the camp0r wins, the attacker loses.. that aint fun in my opinion! hehe, i never even play duels anymore unless its with urhos and with m79, roar

sometime i like it to play a duel
but if you lose or win...it doesnt mean very much...
i play duels with a guy from belgium and he always wins but when im busy with a ctf match (i love ctf :D) im mosty somewere on the top
so duels dont mean much

quote:Originally posted by Enik
In duels, the camp0r wins, the attacker loses.. that aint fun in my opinion! hehe, i never even play duels anymore unless its with urhos and with m79, roar


Not when i attack.. they always lose... you gotta use stragity if hes got a barret dodge the shoot and hes through

quote:Originally posted by Enik
In duels, the camp0r wins, the attacker loses.. that aint fun in my opinion! hehe, i never even play duels anymore unless its with urhos and with m79, roar


Don't duel camp0rs.... They have to move sometime, anyway ;)

if you win duels i suppose it gives you self - esteems but in my case it doesn't :/ i never win except when i rush on top and pwn every noob that walks threw a "funnel"

lost alot of respect for you snowden

I also hate duels against people who snowden says (and as he himself plays if it's true what he says :P) only the one guy keeps retreating and i keep marching forward and it becomes more of a who can run the fastest contest. i do loose more when people play as cowardly as that, but that has nothing to do with skill (like snowden also said :P). however, duels i play normaly do reflect someones skill and isn't all about how many kills you make, it's the WAY you make the kills in, that is skill...

true, when people enter a stalemate because of retreating, it indeed may be quite frustrating, but also adds suspense to a duel

this hole game is one big duel...
ME VS. YOU GUYS...

Good job

The whole game is one big duel...
Me Vs. Seraph and his spamming ways! :|
I like to play a more agressive strategy in duels myself :P Although I sometimes camp :\

WHY is Seraph bringing up year old topics and posting useless posts in them at that?

Just stop posting, and it'll go back down to inactive topics..till someone posts again..XD

Stop bumping old topics.

Locked.

(ah, banned already.)