Today Ive kickbanned a guy called "Stalingrad" from #soldat.forums, as he was pasting his playlist and currently listening to "Endlösung - Volk ans Gewehr", a nazi band with a nazi song.

Shortly after, this guy querried me, and a discussion started.

[:-censored] - Tha Doggfather

18:03:23 ? [ Stalingrad ] don't be too narrow-minded, my friend :)
18:03:50 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] im actually not sure if you know what "Endlösung" exactly is
18:04:12 ? [ Stalingrad ] of course, I know
18:04:40 ? [ Stalingrad ] but it's song no ideology
18:04:50 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] the song is devoted to the ideology
18:05:06 ? [ Stalingrad ] as there are pro-communism songs too
18:05:23 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] Volk ans Gewehr sounds more WW2 based oO
18:05:39 ? [ Stalingrad ] sure, but who are you to say in which ideology I have to believe ? :)
18:05:47 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] and you see, Landser (former Endlösung) was forbidden for a reason
18:06:19 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] i dont care too much for your ideology, but i dont want you to paste the music youre listening to, if its something like Endlösung
18:06:37 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] if you agree to that, I have no problem with unbanning you
18:06:50 ? [ Stalingrad ] i hope you know all translations, all lyrics for any song played than :)
18:07:19 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] well, I do not, but some at least. More referring to the band than to every exact sond
18:07:39 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] *every single song
18:08:02 ? [ Stalingrad ] well, say me, explain me, why this song couldn't be an anti-nazi-song ?
18:08:32 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] http://www.uni-protokolle.de/Lexikon/Landser_(Band).html
18:09:25 ? [ Stalingrad ] ow, you looked it up :)
18:09:44 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] aye
18:10:06 ? [ Stalingrad ] good old google, the dearest friend of the multiracial world :)
18:10:11 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] i guess a racist band wouldnt produce an anti-nazi song :)
18:10:27 ? [ Stalingrad ] maybe as a 'concept' , why not ? :)
18:10:36 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] Landser, not really
18:10:48 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] as they were supporting the NPD (nazi party)
18:10:59 ? [ Stalingrad ] I know...
18:11:09 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] and publishing slogans like "race mixing is genocide"
18:11:22 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] or album titles like "the Reich returns"
18:11:32 ? [ Stalingrad ] but still, i don't see why i can't listen to it, maybe i DO like the rhythm :)
18:11:55 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] you CAN listen to it, but dont paste it into the channel then
18:12:02 ? [ Stalingrad ] why ? :)
18:12:08 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] I dont want to see titles of racist bands or any other racist stuff there
18:12:21 ? [ Stalingrad ] why ? :)
18:12:31 ? [ Stalingrad ] cause you got another ideology ?
18:12:47 ? [ Stalingrad ] you think your ideology is superior ? :)
18:13:03 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] according to what happened 60 years ago, i see the points why racist ideology was forbidden
18:13:19 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] everything extremistic cant be good imho
18:13:35 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] that counts for extremist racists, extremist jews, extremist muslims, extremist everything
18:13:40 ? [ Stalingrad ] hmm, maybe everything went wrong after WWII... ?
18:14:04 ? [ Stalingrad ] look around you, there are no moral or ethic values...
18:14:14 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] dont think so, as killing jews for nothing but a sick ideology cant be a solution
18:14:15 ? [ Stalingrad ] there is no european culture anymore...
18:14:42 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] for sure the allied forces set up too hard burdens after WW1
18:14:51 ? [ Stalingrad ] pursuing jews was a mistake, i do know that
18:15:07 ? [ Stalingrad ] but national-socialism is more than killing jews
18:15:47 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] well, my opinion is, everyone should be treated equally, not different cause he is German/African/of another religion/what so ever
18:15:53 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] there are assholes in every culture
18:15:59 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] but nice people too
18:16:13 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] so i wont support an ideology which is for big parts based on prejudices
18:16:35 ? [ Stalingrad ] lol, why, muslims wouldnt treat you, a christian, as a muslim...
18:16:59 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] they would surely treat me different at first
18:17:01 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] its the same here
18:17:10 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] but when someone is nice, also muslims accept them
18:17:19 ? [ Stalingrad ] so Europe have to become some refugee-area ?
18:17:20 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] (im talking about the social, not the religious way)
18:17:21 ? [ Stalingrad ] rofl
18:17:28 ? [ Stalingrad ] believe me, they don't
18:17:35 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] i know quite a lot of muslims
18:17:48 ? [ Stalingrad ] fundamentalist muslims ?
18:17:49 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] and almost everyone of them is a nice person
18:17:52 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] err
18:17:56 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] what i said before
18:18:08 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] every form of fundamentalism/extremism is bad imho
18:18:34 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] i dont like fundamentalist christians (a phenomenon rising currently in the USA) too
18:19:26 ? [ Stalingrad ] so what the ancestors, your forefathers fight for..for ages.....you just throw away in a couple of decades ?
18:19:52 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] i bet they didnt fight for a national socialistic europe
18:20:02 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] and dont forget the situation at this time was VERY different
18:20:20 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] those parts of the world that once have been in war, have mostly come to peace
18:20:25 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] or at least close to
18:20:38 ? [ Stalingrad ] they fight for their dignity, my friend, the dignity for the nation they belong to
18:20:40 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] the last osman invasion is quite some time ago, dont u think?
18:20:57 ? [ Stalingrad ] why this time is different ?
18:21:12 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] as Europe is already a mixed culture, so there is no need for a war for dignity
18:21:51 ? [ Stalingrad ] oh, lol, there is not any dignity anymore in Europe, ow great...
18:21:59 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] and I bet you will find people from other cultures within your ancestors
18:22:05 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] i didnt say there is none
18:22:07 ? [ Stalingrad ] let's live and make tons of money..
18:22:19 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] I said theres no need to physically fight for it
18:22:51 ? [ Stalingrad ] and I bet you will find people from other cultures within your ancestors => because other conquered us in the past
18:23:02 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] and we conquered others in the past
18:23:03 ? [ Stalingrad ] +s
18:23:08 ? [ Stalingrad ] yes, indeed
18:23:12 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] its not just the others being evil
18:23:21 ? [ Stalingrad ] that's what is all about, conquering, war every day
18:23:23 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] if i think of european missionaries in Africa
18:23:32 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] well, not in Europe anymore
18:23:44 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] there are loads of crisis zones in Africa and the middle east
18:23:48 ? [ Stalingrad ] well, that's a very sad fact, isn't it ?
18:24:09 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] national socialism wouldnt make it ANY better
18:24:27 ? [ Stalingrad ] now every savage arab just can walk in and have a nive living in the beloved Europe..
18:24:33 ? [ Stalingrad ] nice*
18:24:47 ? [ Stalingrad ] it would make it better for Me.
18:24:56 ? [ Stalingrad ] as i'm making part of a nation
18:25:05 ? [ Stalingrad ] a nation i will fight for
18:25:12 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] well, if hes working like every other, not harming anyone. why not?
18:25:21 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] of course i wont let in millions after millions
18:25:30 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] but nor would i totally close the borders
18:25:51 ? [ Stalingrad ] if he's living near our culture, speaking our language, yes..
18:26:20 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] well, when they come here, most of them try to learn our language and be a part of the society
18:26:33 ? [ Stalingrad ] not in my country
18:26:48 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] i guess there are enough "normal ones" too
18:27:04 ? [ Stalingrad ] there are, but they are rather rare
18:27:16 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] like I said, you can find assholes in every culture, and not every Arab/African/whatever is willing to be part of the society
18:27:27 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] those we have to cope with - in a peaceful way
18:28:02 ? [ Stalingrad ] well, the fact we have to cope with them in a peaceful way is totally wrong ..
18:28:11 ? [ Stalingrad ] why on earth we have to cope with them ?
18:28:37 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] because they also have to cope with us in their country
18:29:01 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] by now, the movement from Arabia to Europe is stronger than the other way round
18:29:03 ? [ Stalingrad ] cause we have a capitalism system. and they want to take advantage of our capitalism
18:29:22 ? [ Stalingrad ] capitalistic*
18:29:33 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] but as Europe is having more and more economical problems with its capitalistic system, this situation can change quite fast
18:29:38 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] then were the ones moving southern
18:29:50 ? [ Stalingrad ] they don't have to cope with us in their country, we aren't welcome there for christ's sake
18:30:17 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] depends on which country youre reffering too
18:30:18 ? [ Stalingrad ] of course, the capitalistic system is based on air and on airheads
18:31:14 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] dont forget, that we and the USA are creating the ideal base for extremism, by burdening the Middle and Far East with industrial embargos, raising the poverty in those countries
18:31:25 ? [ Stalingrad ] back to the basics, small nations, everyone caring for themselves, that's the solution
18:32:00 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] and how did national socialism become popular? cause of the burdens of the Allies, causing a bad economical situation in Germany
18:32:14 ? [ Stalingrad ] of course, i dislike the capitalistic, liberal system of Europe and US..
18:32:15 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] there is not one solution, there are hundreds
18:32:25 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] but for sure, national socialism is not one of them
18:32:33 ? [ Stalingrad ] well, but why they had problems ?
18:32:52 ? [ Stalingrad ] why they were in a bad aconomical situation ?
18:32:55 ? [ Stalingrad ] e*
18:33:17 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] because they didnt do what we and the US wanted from them
18:33:58 ? [ Stalingrad ] no, their country was leaded by incompetent leaders...
18:34:25 ? [ Stalingrad ] it was a total mess, and Hitler just 'arrived' at the right time
18:34:59 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] dont forget, that many of those incompetent leaders were supported by capitalistic countries just looking for their own advantage. like saddam hussein
18:35:27 ? [ Stalingrad ] it's not the economical situation who made Hitler become big, it's the incompetent policy of other leaders..
18:35:50 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] partially right
18:36:00 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] but the main reason WAS the economical situation
18:36:20 ? [ Stalingrad ] but why WAS the economic situation bad ? :)
18:36:23 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] poor people tend to fall into extremism far easier than people living in a well going coutnry
18:36:36 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] i told you, cause of the hard burdens the allies set up after WW1
18:36:59 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] for example they let Germany pay reparation amounts they could never have afforded
18:37:18 ? [ Stalingrad ] i know
18:37:36 ? [ Stalingrad ] that's how the 'liberals' are...
18:38:17 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] and btw. many ppl say, that immigrants are responsible for the high rate of unemployment
18:38:47 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] but a fact is, that most of them accept jobs and payments, a normal inhabitant of the country would never accept
18:39:25 ? [ Stalingrad ] well, i know, that's the result of the über-capitalistic-system...
18:39:26 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] the reason why many turkish/croatian/.. women are cleaning personel is, that there are almost no "original" applicants
18:39:50 ? [ Stalingrad ] i also disagree with people of my nation, with a huge amount of people of my nation
18:40:18 ? [ Stalingrad ] of course, cause a european now have no values anymore...
18:40:38 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] national socialism wouldnt bring the values back
18:40:43 ? [ Stalingrad ] it's a pork, eating, earning money, sleeping, eating...
18:40:44 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] it would make it even worse
18:40:54 ? [ Stalingrad ] why ?
18:41:31 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] see what happened before WW2. Like the "Reichskristallnacht"
18:41:52 ? [ Stalingrad ] yes..
18:42:04 ? [ Stalingrad ] i already said i never supported anti-jew actions
18:42:36 ? [ Stalingrad ] good, i have to go now...
18:42:36 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] yes, but national socialism wasnt against the jews only
18:42:54 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] it also discriminated against ppl with black skin, different religions etc :)
18:43:13 ? [ Stalingrad ] i know, it's in fact 'against' every other culture than the nation's culture :)
18:43:24 ? [ Stalingrad ] of course..luckily thet do ;)
18:43:39 ? [ Stalingrad ] they*
18:43:53 ? × Stalingrad is now known as » Vast-essen
18:43:55 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] see. and a rage against black people/ppl of other religions would cause just the same
18:44:03 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] nothing with bringing back values
18:44:31 ? [ Vast-essen ] it is no 'rage' , it's about finding ourselves back
18:44:52 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] well, this should be done in another way than repeating history
18:45:00 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] extremism cant be a solution
18:45:10 ? [ Vast-essen ] history is always right :)
18:45:33 ? [ Vast-essen ] well, i think extremism is the only solution to make a better Europe
18:45:36 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] yes, and 80 million of dead soldiers and civilians should be enough to remind that something like WW2 should never ever happen again
18:46:04 ? [ Vast-essen ] a decent man don't care if he has to die in the name of his nation.
18:46:05 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] if you encounter extremism with extremism you will have a situation like down in Gaza
18:46:43 ? [ Vast-essen ] well, down in the gaza it's a modern war...i won't do it that way, believe me :)
18:46:44 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] if you think you are a hero when you die for your nation/country, you are acting as idiotic as extremist muslim suicide bombers
18:47:02 ? [ Vast-essen ] now, you don't
18:47:21 ? [ Vast-essen ] you gight for your ancestors, your family and your future
18:47:25 ? [ Vast-essen ] fight*
18:47:40 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] war wont make your future better
18:47:50 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] and wont make your ancestors happy oO
18:48:09 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] and a dead father is not really something good for a family
18:48:53 ? [ Vast-essen ] well, there is family to replace the 'functions' of the father...
18:49:22 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] great, still the loss of the father is nothing they profit from
18:49:41 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] and surviving wont be easier in times of war
18:49:57 ? [ Vast-essen ] he fought for his country, his family...he had a reason to live, and a reason to die
18:50:21 ? [ Vast-essen ] i don't want an 'easy' life..
18:50:24 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] dying in a war by your own will, is actually stupid and not heroic
18:50:38 ? [ Vast-essen ] and i think a human isn't made for easy living..
18:50:46 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] maybe true
18:51:29 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] but the current situation in Europe can be solved in different peaceful ways
18:51:45 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] and as long as this is possible, i wont support any kind of physical actions
18:51:57 ? [ g_diablo`OnAir ] and in no way national socialism
18:52:04 ? [ Vast-essen ] hehe, i don't think so...we'll see in some decades, or maybe next year..who knows... :)
18:52:37 ? [ Vast-essen ] i'm off now...bye
18:52:43 ? [ grand_diablo ] I see you seem to have learned something different from 8 million dead ppl
18:52:47 ? [ grand_diablo ] *80
18:53:21 ? [ Vast-essen ] what's 80 million people compared with 6 billion of living deads :)
18:54:52 ? [ grand_diablo ] bad comparison -.-

Any thoughts?

Reminds me of a conversation I had with a guy named Hitler during a DM:

quote:[Michal] Hitler was a bad man.
[Hitler] Hitler was a god!
And it pretty much went downhill from there... He didn't really know too much of the actual history he was just saying anti-everything stuff. The guy you were talking to seems a bit more educated, but still has some ideologies I disagree with.

Back in junior high school 2 of my best friends were Pakistani Muslims, I'm Catholic, and we got along just fine except for the occasional argument about eating pork [:P] . We were at the same school through sept. 11, and I saw some of the discrimination they faced but we still stayed good friends. Unfortunatly after grade 8 we had to go to different High Schools.

One thought for you, grand_diablo.
Private conversations can NOT be published without the authorization of all involved parties.

(And for all posters in the thread, I know I'm right, I really don't care what your vision is on this)

Sebastian is an FBI agent !!! Run people, 5-0 5-0 !!!

I'm just talking to him in the Channel. Obviously he didn't miss his ideology classes. He can talk a lot.

[ Vast-essen ] well, down in the gaza it's a modern war...i won't do it that way, believe me :)

supposed to be a joke ?

Its a battle of opinions. You might think that Hitler's idea of races and the master Aryan race is bull[:-censored], but some people live by it. What's right or wrong is for everyone to determine for themselves, thats called morality, and you cant change what a neo-nazi like Stalingrad already thinks. Some people might influence others, though, but I doubt it'll be a random person on IRC :)

As for kick+banning him out, I dont approve it. Though I'm against his ideology, I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Unless action is taken to harm others due to any certain ideology (on IRC lets assume some nazi guy decides to spam "a channel full of jews"), then I'd approve banning him. Unless hes harmful, I dont see any reason for kicking him out.

Edit: BTW, I read just some parts of that discussion, and most of it was tottal crap. I'm sad people rely on mere generalizations to set up full ideologies. Europe has no dignity? What in the *[:-censored]*? Dignity, for starters, is relative, that means whatever you think dignity symbolizes, that's what it is for you. So what I'm getting at is: Arguing about personal dynamic points of view is like trying to make a statue out of water. Muslims wont accept Christians? Do you actually think it has anything to do with religion? Religion is just there as an excuse for social schism between the members of those two religions. Sure, some might resent you at first, but the bottom line is *people are people*. Nobody wants to fight for no reason, they'd befriend you like any other would, despite the initial tension. You guys speak of them as if they're aliens.

Racism is bad...
just as much as lying
just as much as cheating
just as much as stealing
just as much as killing
just as much as rape
just as much as war

So why is it any more than anything else?
Do you keep a list of priorities in your head of which thing is worse than another?
Can you guaruntee that your side is better? That your army will not make mistakes?
Just the kind of mistake a racist person has made?

You fight for a cause, but is your fighting a justification of your cause?
Is the justification the best, is there no alternative?

Why live by some laws and not others?
Why have morals if you knowledgably break them?

Why have morals at all?

Answer :
To entertain yourself. You keep everyone happy while faking morals and they give things to you. That is your motivation.

How this involves Grand Diablo's "Interesting" Conversation :
You both gave the wrong arguements and the wrong reasons. Don't be gullible to anyone's opinion, even mine. Don't make decisions based on morals, and don't be a rebel. Make decisions based on how it would affect you.

"What is truth? How or why do we identify a statement as correct or false, and how do we reason?

For the same reasons as TFS, I agree that Stalingrad shouldn't be banned. And I'm not quite sure why his account has been deleted, I havn't found anything he has said here offensive.

*people are people*. And people have their tendencies and their 'natural' obligations when they are immersed in a culture. Of course nobody wants to fight for no reason, but when societies are in conflict for centuries over economic and nationalistic reasons, often disguised by religion, the reason to fight is there. I find initial tension as vague, overcoming it in the current generation, or the present, as is being discussed, is not going to happen. Societies will continue to turn out extremists, whose reasons are inflexible, and do treat other people as aliens. Nationalism is very slowly diminishing, though in times of trouble seems like a savior, whether a nation is being attacked by invaders or economic hardship. It will continue to be a reason for people to die for, and convincing Stalingrad otherwise is simply unnecessary, and unfounded.

I don't want to talk about the Nazi thing, because I don't know enough about it and such, but mods can do what they want, kick whoever they want but it may change what the other mods think of them...

if the forum rules bans any 'nazi activity' (and guess what? on forum/irc, talking is the only activity you can.. unless you can find a way to shoot real people from your screen.), then why should the irc chan should be any diffrent?

regardless of if hes right or not, or if hes even a human or not, i dont care.
forum rules applies to irc chan. duh.

in other words, I "approve" your decision, g_diablo. :p

Bloody hell, a philisophical + religious + moral debate in the #soldat.forums? you've guys have grown up since I was last here...though theres still a [:-censored]load of barretards and no pointmatch servers. :|

anyhow ... 'There is not either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.' -Shakespeare ...just about rounds it up.

OMG CHAK OMG

Yes, and listening to Dimmu Borgir automatically makes me a blood-thirsty Norwegian.

Just because one listens to something it doesn't necessarily mean they follow the ideology that it conveys.

i censored the logs of the conversation.

the post was flagged for review and i had to keep my objectivity as a moderator.
im not going to make a judgement about the subject of posting playlists of "racist" music in IRC.
you cant post chatlogs without both parties agreeing, something called netiquette.

quote:Originally posted by frogboy
Yes, and listening to Dimmu Borgir automatically makes me a blood-thirsty Norwegian.

Just because one listens to something it doesn't necessarily mean they follow the ideology that it conveys.


Sure, in this case he proved his ideology. He was unbanned shortly after the discussion began, but he has to keep such playlist entry pastings away from the channel. The topic racism can be discussed in the channel of course, including everyone's opinion, but things like "Stalingrad is playing Endlösung - Volk ans Gewehr for ioBezhaL (not sure whom he dedicated his playlist to, might have also been a different user), is something I dont wanna see in this channel.

christ dogdaddy, lighten up...it's a [:-censored]ing game forum, not the gentleman's club. Let people make their own mistakes.

the one grand diablo had the conversation with requested me i took off the log.

i know him quite well, he doesnt mean to shock people.

i would have done the same if i didnt know him though.

i saved the log, i could post it back if he agrees to it. ill have to ask him first.

EDIT: log posted back, except the information of stalingrad.

Are the nazi thing so sensitive for you? I remember your topic something like "The retards vs the wall", guess how some disabled person would like this one?

Here was what he said in the public room:
[01:57] ! Stalingrad is playing Endlösung - Volk ans Gewehr, für ioBhezaL

Just realised... I wonder if he knew I would take it seriously, had I read it properly...? =/

"[ g_diablo`OnAir ] war wont make your future better"

LOL, So when Hitler wanted to conquer the world the best thing we could do was accept it? How nice from you.

quote:Originally posted by palloco
"[ g_diablo`OnAir ] war wont make your future better"

LOL, So when Hitler wanted to conquer the world the best thing we could do was accept it? How nice from you.


OMG you are turning the sense of this answer from me upside down. This has by no way to mean, if someone starts a war, the others should just accept it. In this case, you do have to fight back of course.

The main thing i meant, was not even to start a war.

Oh, really? What is the sense of that?
Allies declared war on Germany, Germany just declared war on Poland. And if Cezch had declared war on germany with the support of France and GB, Germany would have been smashed before 1940. Did you know main tank forces of Germany were the ones made by Ceczh? Skoda Light Tank. All the WW2 started becuz stupid guys thought that starting a war does not bring anything good.

Killing millions of people for a "greater cause" is not good.If you think so, then you probably have some loose bolts in your head.

It is better killing millions of people than killing millions of people and torturing thousands of millions of people. If you dont think so, then you are simply stupid.

quote:Originally posted by palloco. {grammer edited}

Is it better killing millions of people than killing millions of people and torturing thousands of millions of people? If you dont think so, then you are simply stupid.
[:-bulb]

No. I do not think so. Either way does not matter if it doesn't involve me. Unless you are a some sort of fourtune-teller you have no idea what would have happened if Czech, France & Great Britian had joined the war earlier.

quote:Originally posted by palloco.

Is it better killing millions of people than killing millions of people and torturing thousands of millions of people? If you dont think so, then you are simply stupid.
[:-bulb]

No. I do not think so. Either way does not matter if it doesn't involve me. Unless you are a some sort of fourtune-teller you have no idea what would have happened if Czech, France & Great Britian had joined the war earlier.

quote:Originally posted by palloco
Oh, really? What is the sense of that?
Allies declared war on Germany, Germany just declared war on Poland. And if Cezch had declared war on germany with the support of France and GB, Germany would have been smashed before 1940. Did you know main tank forces of Germany were the ones made by Ceczh? Skoda Light Tank. All the WW2 started becuz stupid guys thought that starting a war does not bring anything good.


They probably wouldve been smashed earlier, and at this time nobody knew or expected that Hitler was about to occupy half of Europe. The Allies had no reason to be afraid when Hitler took Poland, and they werent seeing any advantage in interveting. Sure, a bad thing. Wouldnt itve been better if the Allies wouldnt have burdened Germany too heavy after WW1, so Hitler could not have used the bad economical and unstable situation to get that mighty?

quote:Originally posted by frogboy
Yes, and listening to Dimmu Borgir automatically makes me a blood-thirsty Norwegian.

Just because one listens to something it doesn't necessarily mean they follow the ideology that it conveys.


Dimmu Borgir did make me a blood-thirsty norwegian ... Haven't you transformed yet? Well anyway if you want to come over and sacrifice a cat... :)

OnTopic: Actually he believed in it.

Of course, but that was obviously not an option for the leaders of Europe as Hitler was taking power. I can't think of anything else to say, this is getting too hypothetical.

I do not agree with everything that my favourite bands play, and I don't agree with all of their views. If you do then that is odd.

"The Allies had no reason to be afraid when Hitler took Poland"

So you agree with me, why are you replying me? War is necessary, unless you are trying to mean that it would have been better that nobody declared war on germany when they attacked poland.

quote:Originally posted by palloco
"The Allies had no reason to be afraid when Hitler took Poland"

So you agree with me, why are you replying me? War is necessary, unless you are trying to mean that it would have been better that nobody declared war on germany when they attacked poland.


You should become lawyer with your style of interpreting things :/

The Allies started their intervention, when Hitler was about to attack England, and apparently became to powerful. If you would have read carefully and all of what ive written, then you would have understood, that I meant that ALL of WW2 was senseless. After it was started, the intervention of course was right.

I wont continue discussing with you, palloco, if you keep on quoting single sentences from a whole text, trying to give them a completely different meaning. It's like talking into an oven.

Certainly. I tell you starting wars is necessary to minimize the deaths and sufferings and you dont counter it but bring ur own stories about ww2.
If you have no idea what WW2 is it is your problem but saying "The Allies started their intervention, when Hitler was about to attack England," only shows a complete lack of ignorance.
For your information Allies declared inmediately war to Germany once it declared war on Poland. France and England promised Poland to help them in case Germany attacked them and that Poland would maintain his intergrity (heh, not only it was divided but Soviet Union put a toy goverment there). France told Poland to resist while it was gathering forces to invade Germany in few months because they never imagined Germany could conquer poland in less than a month.
If you have no idea of how powerful Ceczh army was and how were the interventions between their leaders and Chamberlain and Daladier, if you have no idea of how Germany showed the world it needed vital space by openly breaking all rules by creating an army not only much bigger than allowed but as big as France's or England's, if you have no idea about ww2, then dont start those pathetic stories.
Reality is hard and even it would be nice to live in a Pacific World you should learn by the history there were evil people eager to do anything to get power and smash anyone on his way. War is not the nice way, but SOMETIMES is the only way.

A declaration of war IS NOT automatically an intervention. Read, understand, THEN answer and try to tell me what you think I do not know. Just as I said, it is like talking to an oven...

Even if the czech army was quite big at this time, you cannot tell for sure an earlier INTERVENTION (!) would have changed the tides. Germany was powerful enough to invade France, Northern Africa and also parts of Russia although they overestimated themselves in the end.

i declare war on the store... it better lower the price of ravoili...

Intervention? Are you trying to tell me that allies did not intervented when France was invaded? Or do you think that happened after trying to attack England?
Germany was only able to invade France, Northern Africa and parts of Russia thx to capturing Ceczh forces and having under control the Petroleum from Ploesti. Without those 2 keys Germany would be unable to move as it did.

How many nazi topics your gonna post? Calm down...

this is about...

lemme count...

the second ô.Ô

Atheism is the answer, u cant convert people who have been religious all their lives to be an athiest because they are brainwashed, just outlaw parents from teaching it to their children.

GD, in this case, you've got your facts completely wrong..

yeh, I admit I messed some things up. But I stayed away from using google and tried to remember things.

Whatever, I still dont think wars are a solution.

Wars are a way for New World Order to take control over the world(and boost economy)

H-O-L-Y SH*T what a convo. Read half of it so please don't bash me if I say something stupid

Grand Diablo is too sensitive about Austria's "nazi past". When I listen to music, I don't give a damn about what they say and tell you in the song as long as the song sounds good.

I wouldn't ban ppl if they listen to nazi/commee/etc music or support extrimists. If they start to mess around with ppl, they should be banned.

yes the war that stoped the great depression...
sometime war is good... sometimes.....
whos going to help me war agenst the store???