this is not suitable for little 12 year olds!
-dont look if you cant handle seeing gore-
>Download<

for all those that keep feeling pity about israeli army ruining terrorist's houses,
this is the situation in most of israel today.
watch and reply your opinions (and try on-topic posts that make sense)

im glad you wrote a warning, but then again, little 12 year olds might get curious and watch it anyway...

quote:Originally posted by Tha Doggfather
im glad you wrote a warning, but then again, little 12 year olds might get curious and watch it anyway...

well i just added another warning just incase they will :@

Obviously this war did not bring out the best in everybody.

Death is a terrible price to pay... I do not support it for any cause.

what about for the good of humanity? there's too many of us. we're killing each other, which bring the numbers down and sets the balance a bit more. it's good for the planet, bad for the dead and damaging for the living. but it's here to stay-for a reason

Sorry to burst your bubble, peemonkey, but war (modern war, at least) does not significantly reduce the world population.

1st Precept: You shouldn't kill.

No matter, killing is always wrong.

yeah but a nuclear holocaust will.. and.. i can't see it winamp isn't showing the vid.. :(

[edit:] i just watched it, i don't get it, what is going on in isreal?

Because humans are bloodlusters, and because war balances out peace, vice versa, and I guess it does sort of balance out the human race and their actions' consequences towards our home planet.

2-sided genocide is what's going on in Israel, Dathker. Suicide bombings/car bombings/shooting at cars at houses (early part of the intefada) was happening in Israel.

quote:Originally posted by Elephant_Hunter
Obviously this war did not bring out the best in everybody.

Death is a terrible price to pay... I do not support it for any cause.


Which war are you talking about? The fighting in Isreal has been going on for a really, really long time.

quote:Which war are you talking about? The fighting in Isreal has been going on for a really, really long time.

Shouldn't that be common knowledge by now? Did you expect me to say "Oh, I had no idea!"?

Either way I believe you have failed to gather the point of my post. [xx(] So let me reiterate it for you: I do not care what war you fight, killing is wrong.

quote:Originally posted by SuperKill
this is not suitable for little 12 year olds!



Good thing I turned 13 today, then. *watches*


edit: meh, link isn't working, don't wanna see gore at 1:00 AM anyways. ;P

Yeah, tad on topic with my very low knoweledge of war.

It sucks.

quote:Originally posted by Elephant_Hunter
quote:Which war are you talking about? The fighting in Isreal has been going on for a really, really long time.

Shouldn't that be common knowledge by now? Did you expect me to say "Oh, I had no idea!"?

Either way I believe you have failed to gather the point of my post. [xx(] So let me reiterate it for you: I do not care what war you fight, killing is wrong.


Most people that blame anything on war as of letely has been talking about the one in iraq, because a lot of people like to bash it every second they have [}:)] Just making sure somebody wasn't being dumb.

It's unnerving when someone dislikes war simply because their political party is against it. Political parties were not meant to force the citizens to mold with them, but for the parties to mold with the citizen's voice.

Pisses me off just as much as when my friend tells me that he's Republican because Bush is the "Right Person" for office (or so says his church.) What kind of brain washing shit do they feed these people?

Edit :

quote:Good thing I turned 13 today, then. *watches*
HAHAHA! I thought LazehBoi was joking, but his profile says otherwise. You notty boy you!

quote:Originally posted by SuperKill

for all those that keep feeling pity about israeli army ruining terrorist's houses


I thought they are palestinians :s

Anyway that video was quite a shock treatment, but it only shows the Israeli view of the things. It is wrong to attack innocent civilians in war, but it is also wrong to destroy innocent people's homes. War is war and cruelty has become a measure in war.

I would be propably pretty pissed off if my father was exploded while he was traveling in a bus. On the other hand I would be pissed off as much if he died in a missile strike or if a bulldozer came trough my room.

No one is saint in war, but we all are victims



















That last line went too philosophic :/

quote:Originally posted by Elephant_Hunter

quote:Good thing I turned 13 today, then. *watches*
HAHAHA! I thought LazehBoi was joking, but his profile says otherwise. You notty boy you!

Ehh... lol. I thought that too... [^]

quote:Originally posted by that fuking sniper
2-sided genocide


War. LOL 2 SIDED GENOCIDE IS A VERY TECHNICAL WAY OF PUTTING IT!!!! BE CAREFUL THOUGH, YOU'D PROBABLY BLOW A FEW BRAINS UP :3:3:3:3:3:3

No, it isnt "war", Icarius, its different. "War" is more official than this. There have been a number of revolts in Israel about Palestinian independence and this is just one of them. There was always hostility, but it explodes in periodical conflicts, this is just one of them. I wouldnt call it war, because genocide is just technical, war normally has a more or less legitimate reason for it to be faught, and I consider that term overused and meaningless now anyway. The Intefadas are the products of conquest schemes and manipulation.

quote:Originally posted by SuperKill

watch and reply your opinions (and try on-topic posts that make sense)


This will be an anti-barret thread soon. And shouldn't this be in lounge?

quote:Originally posted by Rabies
but it is also wrong to destroy innocent people's homes.
cant you read ?
"TERRORISTS HOMES"

Like I said they all aren't terrorists(wow). Some of the houses have been bulldozed 'cause a suicidebombers family lived in there.

[:-censored] - edit

i wasnt thinking clearly while writing it. most of the things i said - were too much impulsiveness then being accurate.
my sorry goes to the eyes who have came across this soliloquy.

I agree koil. Why should a few innocents suffer because of the actions of others?

quote:Originally posted by Rabies
Like I said they all aren't terrorists(wow). Some of the houses have been bulldozed 'cause a suicidebombers family lived in there.

do you think the army goverment got nothing better to do then ordering destruction of random palastenian houses ?
you think the army destroies innocent people's houses ?
gimme a break.. and also think before you post.

Actually, the Army does destroy "innocent people's houses". But think, does the phrase "innocent person" mean anything anymore? Militants can be found everywhere in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, you can never destroy enough houses to get rid of all the places they meet in. And believe it or not, SK, most of the houses they destroy out of suspicion of housing terrorists are actually housing civilians, then again, though, you'd hear false accusations of "innocent destruction" by civilians living there. I've had family near Gaza that got their house, along with the rest of the neighbourhood, destroyed by a line of buldozers, no terrorists, weapons, or any sign of extermist violence were found amidst the rubble. Wake up, its not like they check every house before they destroy it, for its appearance might be enough to incriminate it and warrant its destruction. So the thinking part is: What do you think looks suspicious in the West Bank and Gaza Strip? Answer: Pretty much every other house, and I dont blame them, because terrorists could really turn out to be there. By the way, mass-destruction of "innocent houses" does serve the settling attitude that Israel loves to express towards Palestine by depressing the Palestinians there, thats how you erase people's identty en-mass and get them used to being treated as dirt. This is also why every now and then, lets say every 20-30 years theres some kind of a retribution campaign by the oppressed people, the intefada is just a single explosion, want me to count?

Alright I've got a few things to say on this issue. I'll try and break it up to make it readable though.

The graphic nature of the video itself

I don't know how a lot of you will take this comment, but I did not need to see that. You know how the videos of the beheadings have been circulating the internet? I have gone out of my way not to see them. And this is not some sort of attempt at purposeful ignorance on my part. I know what happened. I have no desire to see some poor guy get his head lopped off. Just as I had no desire to see a baby with a pool of blood benieth its head. I was warned so I place no blame in that sense. I'm just trying to say, "I know a ton of bad stuff is happening right now, I don't need a blood soaked video to understand that."

The plight of the people involved

The fates of these people are something I would not wish upon my greatest enemey. And I think this is the general consensus of most people here.

What to do?

I assume the point of this video is to discust people enough to the point of taking action. Now I kind of have to speak from the perspective of a US citizen. I feel rather helpless in this sense. Not just me though, I feel that my country is helpless. The US has the biggest military force on the planet (for some reason our leaders think that is some sort of appeal to a higher power, but I digress). We've got all these weapons and all these troops and we cannot do anything to help.

Why? Because the last thing anyone wants is for us to roll into the holy city with the red white and blue flapping in the wind. The resistance would be too great for us to be able to accomplish this anyways. In terms of trying to "force" our way in the conflict, it'd be just like Vietnam. The US fighting against a guerella force that will fight so long as one of them has breath in their lungs. And which side would we take? I guarntee it would be the one "most profitable" to us... which may or may not be the morally or logistically correct thing to do.

Negotiations? Heh. How's that been going? We tried (during Clinton's presidency) with not even the slightest hint of hope. The factions are going to continue to blow eachother up until they figure out the concept behind a [:-censored]ing time share. Until then we're stuck here watching.

Conclusion

So SuperKill I guess my question is, "What were you trying to accomplish by showing us this?" To show us the horrors of Isreal? We know. I don't need a video to verify the fact that people are dying in the streets every day. And I don't think hardly anyone else does either.

Its like Passions of the Christ, you already know the story, but the image just makes it more dramatic and moving. I mean, I took all of this for granted once, before I got to see some gore myself, in Israel. And it does move you. The horrors some people have seen there (very especially the ones who directly whitnessed the thing) were stricken with that scene, propably for the rest of their lives. You dont forget stuff like that if you actually see how horrific it is, because normal imagination doesnt really go that far.

quote:Originally posted by SuperKill
quote:Originally posted by Rabies
Like I said they all aren't terrorists(wow). Some of the houses have been bulldozed 'cause a suicidebombers family lived in there.

do you think the army goverment got nothing better to do then ordering destruction of random palastenian houses ?
you think the army destroies innocent people's houses ?
gimme a break.. and also think before you post.



?????

http://www.occupationwatch.org/article.php?id=6963
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/5E4A0314-2335-40E1-9B11-DB32FB73679F.htm
http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/myrtlebeachonline/news/nation/9757046.htm
http://www.world-crisis.com/news/806_0_1_0_M/

At least 12,778 innocent civilians have died compared to the 1000 israeli and 1000 US deaths. How in the [:-censored]ing hell with the death toll that high is the war justified?

The end of the video shown a flag with the words "Peace", I thought peace excluded violence.

An interesting point TFS. But i wasn't trying to say I wasn't moved. I'm just saying I don't need to be moved in "that way" to understand what's going on. And that still doesn't adress what it is we're supposed to do about it :-/

quote:Originally posted by SuperKill
quote:Originally posted by Rabies
Like I said they all aren't terrorists(wow). Some of the houses have been bulldozed 'cause a suicidebombers family lived in there.

do you think the army goverment got nothing better to do then ordering destruction of random palastenian houses ?
you think the army destroies innocent people's houses ?
gimme a break.. and also think before you post.


Revenge is never random and it usually is taken on civilians
Examples about the meaningness of "random" in Israel:

this is not suitable for little 12 year olds!

-dont look if you cant handle seeing the other side of this thread-


[IMAGE]
Holiday pics...

[IMAGE]
Palestinian car shmashed... just an honest accident.

[IMAGE]

Mosque was closed. I wonder why... mebbe the imam was sick...

[IMAGE]
What about these? Oh, yeah. They happened to be lying there while the tank was passing by.

[IMAGE]
They don't look terrorist, but they ARE potential terrorists... at least now.

[IMAGE]
Another "terrorsit" house gone.

You can make your own conclusions about these photos:
[IMAGE]
[IMAGE]
[IMAGE]
[IMAGE]
[IMAGE]

[IMAGE]
No comment

As far as I am concerned, I think Israelis and Palestinians have both lowered themselves into making these cruelties. Revenge can never be justified and it has created a neverending circle into the Middle-East. It seems hopless to get peace into Middle-East because the adversaries in there want to drive their enemies to sea or to Jordania.

EDIT:
Just read Koil's post
Word terrorism is usualy related on muslim extrimists yelling "Allahu Akbar", and burning US flags while shooting into air with their AK. I checked out the word:
Terror = brutal act against innocent people/civilians, political violence.
Therefore anybody can say that Israelis army is a terrorist organisation. So palestinians aren't the only terrorists in Israel after all. But Koil's wish has come true: ALL terrorists are suffering.

Terror (as in terrorism) is not that, infact what you said it's just how all wars go after all (who even cares about Geneve convention anymore?). It's not the way they fight that makes some palestinians terrorist, they do it to suscept the enemy and cause a war against the people of their country, so that everyone in the world will see the innocent palestinians (not ironic) getting killed, and create an awkward situation of which they can benefit - and where both parts are wrong, because each thinks to have a justification to what it does.

hmm i live in israel and thos things hepen alot here but if i say alot its aloot
evrey day something hepen
just evrey day
and our soldiers bombing cuz they r killing us
its kinda like thet.
they killing and we killing who said to them to kill.
they just dont understand thet we got thet country and we r not going to give thet to them
just learn to lose :D
(sory my english little suck(ok ok alot).

The english doesn't matter, it's the content that sucks. You've just won the award for being the most clueless person about what war really is (not that i do know, but you think you do and that makes you an idiot).

Rabies, u've got no idea what are you talking about.
Look, Israel IS thinking about EACH action it take, and try to kill as less innocent people as they could.
Israel DO want peace (as one who lives there). none of us wants those [:-censored]ing terror attacks and
each thing up in that picture just showing you things that r not the way u think they are.
look, at this movie SK've showed ya you CAN see dead INNOCENT people.
now.. let's look at your pictures.
just few examples.:

[IMAGE]
this picture discribe some SUSPICIOUS terrorists who might have been invoved in terror attacks.
and well, if they were in this situation, so they were.!

another example:
[IMAGE]
this picture discribes you a TERRORIST(suicide bomber)! that had on himself a bomb and this robot is for shoting those bombs.
well, u can see he's killed himself already since he knew he had no other option but to stay at prison for lifetime. (in Israel we do NOT kill people, doesn't matter for what) and wheather u'r thinking about the terrorists that gets killed by planes. so let's show it to you this way. we can send our soldiers there and take those men to prison, but while taking them most of them will ran away, and a lot of our people would die in that action.
In my opinion, the killing by planes is just the perfect way, for ex. in the WW2 the Americans've send a nuclear bomb on Chaina(or Japan?) :o.. doesn't matter. it was just coz they could send there their soldiers, but why should they kill so much people in that action while they can destroy most of them.

nowadays, we wouldn't use such a thing.. that shows you why we concider each thing.
look, the Palastinians just kill as much as they can. if Israel have done the same there would be there no Palastinian nation at all.
If there's any chance the terrorist wouldn't be at his home atm they wanna shot his house they just wouldn't.
just look at it as a naturalist and not as the Palastinian view.

now, some more examples.
[IMAGE]
here u can see innocent people that got injured... but haven't died from the attack and that was by ACCIDENT!

about the children.. like there:
[IMAGE]
well, i'm pretty sure that was a house of a terrorist and those children might be HIS children.
besides, if they let a terrorist live in their building(and yeah, they've got idea who's terrorist and who's innocent) they knot this house might be bombed.

about this pic:
[IMAGE]
now, it's the only reason i can say u have NO IDEA what are u talking about.
in this pic u can see them PRAYING(for god..!)
this is the way they'r praying for god. sigh..
the police-man is only gaurding them for any attacks by those ppl who'r searching for revenge or whatever.

BTW..
[IMAGE]

this picture looks like it was edited but whatevers.
anyways, if this car was smashed by Bulldozer it's surely got a good reason(for ex. this car was carring a suicide bomber, this car belongs to one of them, this car contains bombs etc.)
in Gaza everything that looks like just normalistic it could be that thing that would kill ya..!

no matter how much everyone hates and is afraid of war, it is inevitable. if you or anyone tells you that we could go through history without fighting, they are grossly mistaken. which is why i think this war is jsutified. maybe some of the actions are not, but this stuff happens in war, especially in the environment they are fighting in. if the terrorists are cowardly enough to hide and blend in amongst innocent people in crowded cities, innocent people will get hurt--what else can the military do? there is no way around it--the threat is always there. israel is NOT trying to hurt innocent people. in reality, they are doing everything they can to protect the people there

btw rabies...that is called lying when you make those misleading subtitles. you must be very misinformed to think israel is taking revenge. and you are calling military action terrorism. that is jsut wrong, in the spirit of the word "terror". the military has not acted to scare people. they are there to defend. if they happen to scare people, that is probabyl because they have done something that would cause the military to be their enemies

"You can make your own conclusions about these photos:"
what the [:-censored] do you want ?
taking terrorists to a petting zoo ?

Israel and the USA disgust me. Stop this unnessary crap.

WTF?
first thing,u want thet bulldozer whont attack ur home!?!?
ask ur father to dont [:-censored]ing KILL ppls
wtf?! thos little boy will be terorists
for sure so why they will get home?!?!
i say YES derstroy the [:-censored]ing houses,as far as i know in the åàáåú éåàëìå áåñø åùðé áðéí úéëàðä
if u want know what it said ask some israely and he will tell u.
stop be so NICE GUY.
thos little boy,all life they just know thet KILL ISRAELY U GO HEAVEN
so why we gonna let them be in house(sory for my english)
any way israel dont attack just like thet
israel attacking after the teror hit in israel,
and the guy with the picturs up ther
wtf u trying to do u [:-censored]ing asshole thos picturs r big bull[:-censored]
lol they pray to god nahhhhhhhhhh the israely say to them to pray to him :P
wtf?! when some family will die to u guys from teror ull know how is it
u know talk from ur country smart ass ah?!
come israel and then talk
now i dont [:-censored]ing care if some jackass will say my english suck cuz i know it,any way keep it real,bye bye

Have fun with that ideology. I think you aren't getting the point. In your language :

WTF. Killing is wrong
WTF. No matter what side you're on
WTF. If you don't understand ask some intelligent person.

jeeeeeee may u stfu smart ass
wtf:think before write
wtf:how stopid u can be
wtf:get real
now listin me and listin me good
israel aint killing ppls we kill ppls thet kill ppls
my side is the side thet not killing(yup israel)
and belive me i understand and if i wasnt damn i cant ask u i need search some intelligent person

Since Israel is all goody-tussues and doesn't harm a soul then I suppose the USA doesn't need to fund your stinking army anymore, do we? Maybe we can withdraw our troops from Iraq and let you guys live in peace together. That's what I'm fighting for, so I suppose we are on the same side.

Can't we all just get along? Settle everything over a match of Soldat or something?

Good Idea! If you win then you and your bro's can play wargames without our critisizm, but if we win then Israel goes to the muslims. (Note hint of sarcasm)

quote:Originally posted by Bugs Revenge


BTW..
[IMAGE]

this picture looks like it was edited but whatevers.
anyways, if this car was smashed by Bulldozer it's surely got a good reason(for ex. this car was carring a suicide bomber, this car belongs to one of them, this car contains bombs etc.)
in Gaza everything that looks like just normalistic it could be that thing that would kill ya..!


did you notice the car had no license plate :o?

Darn, no wonder they were pulling it over.

Heh, good point..
just wanted to make my point clear that it had a reason, and it could also be one.

quote:Originally posted by Bugs Revenge
look, at this movie SK've showed ya you CAN see dead INNOCENT people.

example:
[IMAGE]

In my opinion, the killing by planes is just the perfect way, for ex. in the WW2 the Americans've send a nuclear bomb on Chaina(or Japan?) :o.. doesn't matter. it was just coz they could send there their soldiers, but why should they kill so much people in that action while they can destroy most of them. (?)

nowadays, we wouldn't use such a thing.. that shows you why we concider each thing.
look, the Palastinians just kill as much as they can. if Israel have done the same there would be there no Palastinian nation at all.
If there's any chance the terrorist wouldn't be at his home atm they wanna shot his house they just wouldn't.
just look at it as a naturalist and not as the Palastinian view.
(youre looking this on an israeli vie, I look on my own view)

now, some more examples.
[IMAGE]
here u can see innocent people that got injured... but haven't died from the attack and that was by ACCIDENT!

about the children.. like there:
[IMAGE]
well, i'm pretty sure that was a house of a terrorist and those children might be HIS children.
besides, if they let a terrorist live in their building(and yeah, they've got idea who's terrorist and who's innocent) they knot this house might be bombed.

about this pic:
[IMAGE]
now, it's the only reason i can say u have NO IDEA what are u talking about.
in this pic u can see them PRAYING(for god..!)
this is the way they'r praying for god. sigh..
the police-man is only gaurding them for any attacks by those ppl who'r searching for revenge or whatever.


My turn now? And btw this is how I see the things
Lemme sort out few pics at 1st:

1st pic
I can't see an explosive belt, and if he had killen himself(with explosives. Can't see a pistol), he would have been blowed up all over the Gaza srait.

2nd pic
Palestinian kid in a blood stained bodybag. Kinda harsh "injury", but let's face it, he is dead

3rd pic
Youre pretty sure? That's what the army thinks too. As a result: mistakes happen too oftenly.

4th pic
Lots of moslems gather on the road to pray. Why would they do so if they have a mosque? And if they had no mosque, they would have prayed at home.

I think this pic shows why palestinians are so desperate
[IMAGE]
but it doesn't justify their acts.
You stil didn't explain that "holiday pic"... or were they just counting the body count? I bet there are more effective ways to do that.

Man, look.. lots of ppl who'r surely smarter then you or at least smart as you are searching for a solution.
why do u think u know all about that?! you just don't know a [:-censored] of that.
and about ur last picture.. that tank is just seaching for a terrorist house while
those [:-censored]ing other "Innocent" people throwing stones on it, but no.. we mustn't
react, coz if we do.. he would die.. so all those pic that u see with
innocent people throwing stones on tanks doesn't mean that the tanks r about to kill them.
They'r just do everything they could do in order to help the Terrorists and protecting their houses.

Now look, your WHOLE point of view is just wrong since the Palastinians are recording their own movies and showing you their own pictures.. u'r only looking at the "arabs' side" newspaper.. at those news that showing the Palastinians point of view. have u ever looked at the other side news? have u ever seen how we sorry about each innocents' death while they r so happy when one of their suicide bombers kill lots of INNOCENT people over here in restorants or clubs?!

Have you EVER think about our side?! have you got any idea how all of us worried about some [:-censored]ing Palastinian would kill himself by sucide bomb and kill us with him in those [:-censored]ing crouded place?!

now, about your other pictures.............
"1st pic
I can't see an explosive belt, and if he had killen himself(with explosives. Can't see a pistol), he would have been blowed up all over the Gaza srait."
well, that's wrong..
it can be 2 options. or he got on him a lil bomb so it hasn't throw each part of him all over Gaza. or he was about to bomb himself so our soldiers did shot him.. they MUSTN'T shot him for nothing, if they do(it can happen only when they want revenge after 1 of their family was killed in a terror attack or so) and then they would have sit in the jail for their whole life.!

"2nd pic
Palestinian kid in a blood stained bodybag. Kinda harsh "injury", but let's face it, he is dead"
now, just look at the movie at the topic and compare that to our dead people.

"3rd pic
Youre pretty sure? That's what the army thinks too. As a result: mistakes happen too oftenly."
i'm realy sorry mistakes ARE made.. but once again, that's by a mistake and not by perpose to kill [:-censored]ing INNOCENTS!
besides, just to let you know, the Palatinians are doing lots of times those [:-censored]s by invoving lil kids and taking pictures of them while they'r not connected to that building.. who said it their own house and it's not one more terrorist who's put them there in order to make you think we'r the "bad guys".

"4th pic
Lots of moslems gather on the road to pray. Why would they do so if they have a mosque? And if they had no mosque, they would have prayed at home."
that picture is took from Jerusalem on a holy place for them, u [:-censored]ing naive.


any more comments? :)

innocent ppl in israel die by terrorist, innocent ppl in palestina die by the [:-censored]ing israelish army.

quote:Now look, your WHOLE point of view is just wrong since the Palastinians are recording their own movies and showing you their own pictures.. u'r only looking at the "arabs' side" newspaper.. at those news that showing the Palastinians point of view. have u ever looked at the other side news? have u ever seen how we sorry about each innocents' death while they r so happy when one of their suicide bombers kill lots of INNOCENT people over here in restorants or clubs?!


WTF are you talkning about!!! Israel is not exactly a saint, they kill innocent ppl 2.
You can't see what is going on cause you live in israel and offcorse are you going to defend your country.
And the way you write makes it sound that you think that every person from palestina is a terrorist you [:-censored]ing asshole.

stolen car, probably contained terrorists and explosives\weapons.
[IMAGE]



this one.. oh my.
get facts before you're talking sh!t.
do you know WHY were their mosque~ closed ? get details and let me know.
[IMAGE]


"They don't look terrorist, but they ARE potential terrorists... at least now." oh yea you moron, they owned the house, right ?
how can you tell their father\mother didnt explode in some restaurant ? that's right, you cant.
[IMAGE]



same as above
[IMAGE]


cant see anything wrong here. do you know who are the people that are held by the soldiers ?
[IMAGE]
[IMAGE]
[IMAGE]


you really cant tell the swat man is preforming a search on him ? i wonder if he's looking for stuff he stole from shops.
[IMAGE]


you cant see any explosive belt ? :(
my god you're retarded. how can you tell if its not out of the picture ?
[IMAGE]



israel's army is a terror orgenization .. really ?
then usa army must be one too, right ?
gimme a f*cking break.

So, this supposedly-meaningful bullcrap arguement is supposed to end some time right? How about now, none of you make sense, maybe just a little, but biased information A.K.A 90% of this thread and arguement wont help either side. Might as well just give up now. You wont convince Israeli citizens that their army is doing bad things, and you wont convince outsider left-wingies that the Israeli army isnt killing innocent people. If I'm the only one who saw that this thread will not end without some *hard evidence* which, in fact is what everyone needs to shut the [:-censored] up and accept the truth, then I've lost alot of hope of how intelligent people can be.

Yeah, those images are known to be stupid. I received time ago photos of the guy with the bombs belt in a chain mail where the photo of the robot disappeared and therefore it seemed Israel was killing innocent people. I did not believe and looked for what happened and forwarded the complete list of pics blaming the guy who started that mail.
Do you know who was the source of this in Spain? The ally party of the Spanish government. And people believe them and vote them, that is why a democracy is bad where a nation is full of idiots.

then I've lost alot of hope of how intelligent people can be

wait till' November 2nd

quote:Originally posted by Social Poison
Can't we all just get along? Settle everything over a match of Soldat or something?


rofl.


---
anyway, just to (well, trying to) remove the bad impression you (probably) have from my fellow siblings:

israel is AS right (some say wrong. which is ok) as palestin (imo). whether if we are right or not, or if palestin are right or not, thats your job to find out.
my only request is not to consult the wonderful phenomenon which goes by the name of BBC. lets try being neutral as much as we can. alright? [:-propeller]

-no dice. just the ordinary koil we all know & love so much ^.^

there is a problem with the media--as you all know, it is biased. which means they take pictures way out of context and make it look like the israelis are evil murderers, which they arent at all.

but whoever tries to say "well, to the palestineans, theya re doing the right thing" needs to think with common sense. you all have said it is not right to kill, no matter whose side you are on. but they kill not in defense but because their [:-censored]ed up religion tells them to. ill go as far as saying they are selfish because they are killing people to get their own asses in "heaven" so they can have their [:-censored]ing "virgins." they dont think at all about what they are doing, only about themselves

as you can tell, i dont like them, but the information is so mixed up the majority of people dont know whats going on anymore

so dan is not just a flaming machine :>

quote:Originally posted by SuperKill

"They don't look terrorist, but they ARE potential terrorists... at least now." oh yea you moron, they owned the house, right ?
how can you tell their father\mother didnt explode in some restaurant ? that's right, you cant.
[IMAGE]

same as above
[IMAGE]


cant see anything wrong here. do you know who are the people that are held by the soldiers ?(they are usually palestinians)
[IMAGE]
[IMAGE]
[IMAGE]


you really cant tell the swat man is preforming a search on him ? i wonder if he's looking for stuff he stole from shops. (swat man after picpockets? lmao)
[IMAGE]


you cant see any explosive belt ? :(
my god you're retarded. how can you tell if its not out of the picture ?(he would have alrady exploded himself if he had one one, or the police would have alrady shot him if he had one)
[IMAGE]



israel's army is a terror orgenization .. really ? (yes)
then usa army must be one too, right ? (yes)
gimme a f*cking break. (not right now)


"they owned the house, right ?
how can you tell their father\mother didnt explode in some restaurant ?"

Omfg dude... you really need a break... now that's what I call revenge and (in this case) a total giveout by SK. I can't tell if their mother/father exploded in a restaurant but if they did, it doesn't justify to take the revenge on their families.

Btw, pwnt.
Remember what this whole thread was about?
for all those that keep feeling pity about israeli army ruining terrorist's houses
Yep... you should change this one to "for all those that keep feeling pity about israeli army ruining terrorists families homes".

If their father/mother really exploded him/herself in some restaurant, why the hell they have to take it on the family? It really shows that the army does unneccesary acts too and BD'ing the houses aint the best solution for bashing the terrorists. It is mebbe the best solution for creating little terrorists.

Yes T[:-censored]S. This thread has turned into a israeli/palestinian typed stalemate 'cause everyone think that they are so f*cking right in everything. And believe or not I know that Israelis don't like the situation either but SK is so full of Israeli view right now that he sees every palestinian as a terrorist. I bet he "retalities" now, after my 2nd answer, and after my 3rd answer and so on... so we might as well make this a sticky thread.

...i accidently edited this post instead of making a new one...
***ignore***

Rabies, you're an idiot, for real.
obviously you didnt understand my sarcasm in some comment, in the others you just replied idioticly.

"israel's army is a terror orgenization .. really ? (yes)
then usa army must be one too, right ? (yes)
gimme a f*cking break. (not right now)"

dont know what about you but i'm feeling pretty good living in a world that's controlled by a huge terror orgenization. <alot of eye rolling here, to make rabies notice the sarcasm>

"(he would have alrady exploded himself if he had one one, or the police would have alrady shot him if he had one)"
oh i forgot i'm talking to mr.guarrila-fighting-explosive-master rabies.
i think he got a headshot, not sure tho, but anyway when explosive belts are being exploded (by israeli army) they are usually taken to a safe place first. OBVIOUSLY that's what happend here.


now that's what I call revenge and (in this case) a total giveout by SK. I can't tell if their mother/father exploded in a restaurant but if they did, it doesn't justify to take the revenge on their families.
..?
why doesnt it ? first of all, their families support them. they send the family's mom\dad\first child to be a terrorist, i think that alone should be enough.
they raise their children with terroristic education, learning them how to stab and how to find a good places to explode yourself. dont tell me about innocent families.. the only real innocent ones are the brain damaged, deaf, blind, and baby palastines that dont get to recieve the die-while-you-can education.

forgot to mention, true, not ALL palestines are infested with the 'being-a-terrorist' deciese, and still some of them gets injured, homeless, poor, dead, due to israeli AND their terrorist neighbors.

quote:Originally posted by SuperKill
the only real innocent ones are the (...) that dont get to recieve the die-while-you-can education.


well, he IS right you know. according to the kuran (actually, the kuran says NOTHING about killing jews and/or zions, so i guess i should edit that word) "preaching" muslims (didnt found a better word to describe their position on the 'temple' (didnt found a better word to describe the place they pray at. misgad, in hebrew) )., the more jews you kill, the more arab virgins youre gonna get on heaven. afaik, the current stand is 1jew = 7virgins. seems like the stakes are high, but oh boy, you just cant get enough of it, aint ya?

anyway, with that kind of education (religion is uno numbero when it comes to muslim fanatics), you cant really blame them for doing terror acts. the only one you can blame is yourself, for standing in their way, and not letting them earn free virgins.

*dies*.

-dice. not dies, dice.

Those virgins are propably men anyway...

quote:Originally posted by -Keinonen-
Those virgins are propably men anyway...

ROFL!!!!!
Well, I guess that's the reason the females starting to kill themself suicide instead of the males.
about Rabies with the thingy of the "Revenge".. well, just a fact u haven't knew yet.
for each suicide bomber that they send his family gets LOTS of money from their leaders and other enemies of Israel (it was from Iraq as well).
besides, all the acts against the Terrorist's family is just in order to prevent other suicide bombers, to show them what would happen to their family \ houses.. (if it was about me, so yeah, i would've took the revenge part and put their family in jail or something ^^)

Anti-semitistic? Me? What did I say?

"This thread has turned into a israeli/palestinian typed stalemate 'cause everyone think that they are so f*cking right in everything."

Don't refer to anti-semitism too easily Koil.

And poor SK is trying to back up what he said with "sarcasm".

"now that's what I call revenge and (in this case) a total giveout by SK. I can't tell if their mother/father exploded in a restaurant but if they did, it doesn't justify to take the revenge on their families...?
why doesnt it ? first of all, their families support them. they send the family's mom\dad\first child to be a terrorist, i think that alone should be enough. they raise their children with terroristic education, learning them how to stab and how to find a good places to explode yourself. dont tell me about innocent families.. the only real innocent ones are the brain damaged, deaf, blind, and baby palastines that dont get to recieve the die-while-you-can education."
I hope that was an example of your famous sarcasm & witty answer

I wonder who has raised you. I hope you never get a higher rank in army than a corporal. You practically measured every palestinian as a guilty for terrorism. Stereotypes are a sh*t thing for sure.
Imagine yourself into a situation where you have no father/mother and no home 'cause it got bulldozed 'cause of isralis revenge. That sure 'causes a lot of anti-semitism & extrimists supporters amongst palestinians children.

Revenge never pays off 'cause:
1. It pissed off ppl only more
2. It 'causes revenge attacks
3. After revenge you usually strike back
------> Circle has been created

If ppl only made compromises....

Meh... Has anyone here even read the Koran? I'll try to get to the source, for now, before I give up.

The motivation for suicide bombings isnt selfishness or greed for heaven and eternal sex with virgins. That crap isnt even written in the Koran. The Koran states that you may not kill a person unless that person, being an individual threat or a member of a threatening organization is a direct danger to your, your family's, or your community's well being. That said, this is the original justification for the whole Jihad that's going on.

The real reason behind the suicide bombings, though, is the hopelessness and anger which is rather *rampant* througout the west bank/Gaza strip ever since the occupation of the 6-days war. The fact still remains that Palestine is pretty much a cut-off country with a weak economy which is really under the bootheel of Israel. Since the neighbouring Arab countries are run by moronic dictators which could care less about the condition of their subjects, let alone any Palestinian immigrant, there isnt much for a Palestinian to look for should he go to the "brothers of culture". A Palestinian doesnt even have the right to drive a taxi in most Arab countries. So immigration by car/foot (which is pretty much the only option since most people cant afford a ticket to fly out of there) is out of the question. Basically, you are looking at a *trapped* people that no one bothered to care about before they did something. What they did were terrorist acts which were the direct reaction to their oppression. But since nobody cared to even look at them before that, all the media bothers to give us is "Palestinians launch suicide attacks against Israel, sunddenly." The level of communal depression, helplessness and anger over there reached such a level that young men (and women) who see absolutely no future in their life decide to take revenge on the people responsible for their situation, and of course who is always there to point the finger at Israel? The terrorist organizations. The Hamas, the Islamic Jihad, and many more, smaller groups. These are glad that the nice young men and women are willing to sacrifice themselves to destroy "the Jewish pig", which is what they openly call Jews, by the way. The organizations I'm talking about, if you didnt notice, are fanatics, and would do anything to motivate the would-be bombers even more, so they corrupt the meaning of their own religion to give those who are so bent on revenge a very good justification for dying should any guilt feelings rise up as "what if they percieve us as evil terrorists?" Then you have the thing abut "kill Jews as you die and you will be rewarded with eternal life by God's side and many virgins to perform any whim that crosses your mind" to sweeten the deal. That's all it is, just to sweeten the deal. The real reason,though, is what everyone tries to not notice, its the *conquest*. Try and think, goddamnit, who goes on a one-way mission to die unless there be a reason to live anymore? You'd believe they just say "hey man, I feel like killing some Jews, lets give those guys at Hamas a call".

You all can give me a break.

Heh, nice speach..
but each problem has another solutions and not just Fighting or Killing innocent people and so on.
you know, they DO have someone to talk to, the Israeli goverment send lots of money to the Palastinians
(their leader - Arafat) and wanted to help them!
Palastinians still, as you see working at Israel, earns their money here and maybe that's their last hope,
maybe they'r realy helpless.. but we try to help them..!
You know, most of the Suicide bombers are being support by another Israeli-Arabs in order to get to their target -- wheather it's a shopping center or it's a restourant. The Israeli-Arabs do have hopes!
they'r getting money from Israel, they'r working here, they have nice life with ALL the privilages.. but nah, they must betrayel those people who'r helping them in order to "Help" those poor Palastinians and set them free.
The Palastinians nation were and still being support by Israel, they've had realy good life under Israel's "conquest".
well, now.. when we WANT to leave Gaza they'r keep fighting us, we try to leave them alone.. we just wanna get along (for example - > the Separation Fence is in order to prevent some terrorist from getting here.

so here, you got your own areas, u can build your own country... WHAT DO YOU WANT NOW?! more people to die?! coz we do NOT want it. we just wanna live our life at SAFETY and not being affraid that some "helpless" terrorist would kill lots of people.. today it could be just someone from your nation, tomorow it might be you or your family..!
:[
So yeah, maybe I DO look at the Israeli side, but i'm pretty sure in my opinions..

I am tired of talking about this. It's not that I have run out of arguements, just that I think we should move on to the next controversial subject. This is a current event, so I hear about it at home, at school, online, on the news, all the time.

* sigh *

(tries to change the subject)

If you were real men, you'd be able to beat me in Soldat you wimps. I'd kick every one of your sorry asses.

not sure if this has to do with the thread but before all teh jewish people started flocking to and fixing up israel, no one wanted it. now after it has built itself up, they are attacking (again) to take it. Now i can understand them wanting the religious places, but it looks like they want all of it. speaking of war, the arab nations all around israle have been attacking it for years. so why is everyone getting all on the israelis cases in the first place? btw even if the koran doesnt say to, many of the parents are teaching their kids to hate and kill the jews

lol if the palestinains are all in weak countries doesnt justify their attacking..they are like little kids. they see something they like, and instead of working for it they try to take it and fight for it

oop sorry you guys posted right before me...so anyway
i could take any of you in soldat! [:D] bring on yer barrets! my chainsaw is hungry

Bugs: Israel did help Palestine, I dont deny that, but its the fact that their help alone wasnt enough to sustain Palestine was what bothered the people in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, were they to have true independence, they would have no reason to even start such an intefada, hell, all the terrorist organizations would be dismantled by the people themselves if the *people* dont see any reason for a fight. It is always ultimately the people who are the power in any conflict, the leader is mearly the person which can direct that power and mold it. Israel transfered most of the helping money to the Hamas, though, and with it, the Hamas did help repair Palestine, and got a favorable opinion amongst the people there, its agenda, though, was an extremist one, and when the time was right and the people were furious, it would show its true colors.

About Palestinians working in Israel: Israel's economy is f*cked up as it is. Normal Jewish Israeli citizens have trouble keeping themselves out of dept. The reason my family immigrated from Israel in the first place was that we couldnt financially sustain ourselves, and we werent even "Palestinians", we were "Israelis" on the ID. Palestinians working in Israel have worse conditions than my family did.

And a thing about Israeli Arabs: though I'm only half Arab, I didnt have *ALL* the priveliges that a Jew would get in Israel. Dont be fooled, most of the really profitable jobs (such as managing and higher positions) are reserved for Jews, even in Arab areas, thats why alot of Arabs chose to run their own grocery shops, if you notice. You can go up to Nazareth or even Haifa and see apartments for rent that say "Jews only". Make no mistake, Israel does discriminate between Jews and non-Jews, rather openly, too, but that's not the issue. Most of my friends in Israel were Arabs, and guess what, they said they'd prefer to stay where they are, in Israel, as Israelis, than move to another country or join the Palestinian fight. They do sympathize with the struggling people over there, but they dont support the fight. I also hold that same opinion. If Israel gave me my full rights and I saw a chance for a decent life there, I'd plan on moving back to Israel, but thats not the case, sadly.

Oh, and Palestinians didnt have a "good life" under Israeli conquest. You might think so because you havent heard much of about the West Bank/Gaza Strip untill the intefada actually broke up. I've told you to think, havent I? :P Why would you fight for a home if you already have one? Well they dont. As them belonging to Israel, Israel did much to oppress people there. Israel demolished more than 350 villages throughout the conquest, before and after both intefadas, and rebuilt none. Instead, you had settlers come where the villages were once and Israel helped *those*. Settlers also regularly raided Arab villages and crops before and after both intefadas for the same reason the terrorist organizations do what they do - extremist idiology. Furthermore, Palestinian economy was bound to Israel's limitations. Most Palestinians built their own houses, but could never own them since the landlords were Israelis, so they rented them. Then you had the confined Beduin tribes which used to roam all over the Negev desert. Now they are put into small reserves because Israel claimed alot of land for farming. Yes, that land belonged to the official Israel, but the Beduin confinement was just another good reason for any Palestinian to hate Israel even more. Couple these general things with every single individual difficulties that a person could experience in a land that he would truly call 'home' "if those damned Jewish pigs werent there", and viola! You've got yourself an angry mass of people ready to take up arms against you. For their own good reason too.

What I'm basically trying to argue here, is that no single conflict is one-sided. No one fights for no true reason of his own, and no one just hates for no reason of his own either. And all the biased propoganda that we post around here is just a fraction of the real picture. I simply showed you what you failed to see. But I support no action nor any side of this conflict, for they are both blind to the opposite. Yay for neutrality.

Well, I've always knew those stuff, but haven't know it's THAT bad.
I've never seen any "Israeli Only" rent places or stuff. maybe that's true.
I live near Haifa, in a place there are not much Israeli-Arabs but i know some of them..
most of them are nice and faithful for Israel and are getting the support as well(for ex. : the Druze nation- some of them are even joining our army...) but all of us know the economic over here and lately after the Intifada has started there r much less working places etc. so surely the jews who belive in Zionism would prefer some Jews in those jobs instead of Palastinians.
The sad fact is that there are some non-negligible number of traitors who help in terror attacks.

Well, i've got your idea about the Palastinians situation so.. as a neutralist what would you suggest?

quote:Originally posted by that fuking sniper
Bugs: Israel did help Palestine, I dont deny that, but its the fact that their help alone wasnt enough to sustain Palestine was what bothered the people in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, were they to have true independence, they would have no reason to even start such an intefada, hell, all the terrorist organizations would be dismantled by the people themselves if the *people* dont see any reason for a fight. It is always ultimately the people who are the power in any conflict, the leader is mearly the person which can direct that power and mold it. Israel transfered most of the helping money to the Hamas, though, and with it, the Hamas did help repair Palestine, and got a favorable opinion amongst the people there, its agenda, though, was an extremist one, and when the time was right and the people were furious, it would show its true colors.

About Palestinians working in Israel: Israel's economy is f*cked up as it is. Normal Jewish Israeli citizens have trouble keeping themselves out of dept. The reason my family immigrated from Israel in the first place was that we couldnt financially sustain ourselves, and we werent even "Palestinians", we were "Israelis" on the ID. Palestinians working in Israel have worse conditions than my family did.

And a thing about Israeli Arabs: though I'm only half Arab, I didnt have *ALL* the priveliges that a Jew would get in Israel. Dont be fooled, most of the really profitable jobs (such as managing and higher positions) are reserved for Jews, even in Arab areas, thats why alot of Arabs chose to run their own grocery shops, if you notice. You can go up to Nazareth or even Haifa and see apartments for rent that say "Jews only". Make no mistake, Israel does discriminate between Jews and non-Jews, rather openly, too, but that's not the issue. Most of my friends in Israel were Arabs, and guess what, they said they'd prefer to stay where they are, in Israel, as Israelis, than move to another country or join the Palestinian fight. They do sympathize with the struggling people over there, but they dont support the fight. I also hold that same opinion. If Israel gave me my full rights and I saw a chance for a decent life there, I'd plan on moving back to Israel, but thats not the case, sadly.

Oh, and Palestinians didnt have a "good life" under Israeli conquest. You might think so because you havent heard much of about the West Bank/Gaza Strip untill the intefada actually broke up. I've told you to think, havent I? :P Why would you fight for a home if you already have one? Well they dont. As them belonging to Israel, Israel did much to oppress people there. Israel demolished more than 350 villages throughout the conquest, before and after both intefadas, and rebuilt none. Instead, you had settlers come where the villages were once and Israel helped *those*. Settlers also regularly raided Arab villages and crops before and after both intefadas for the same reason the terrorist organizations do what they do - extremist idiology. Furthermore, Palestinian economy was bound to Israel's limitations. Most Palestinians built their own houses, but could never own them since the landlords were Israelis, so they rented them. Then you had the confined Beduin tribes which used to roam all over the Negev desert. Now they are put into small reserves because Israel claimed alot of land for farming. Yes, that land belonged to the official Israel, but the Beduin confinement was just another good reason for any Palestinian to hate Israel even more. Couple these general things with every single individual difficulties that a person could experience in a land that he would truly call 'home' "if those damned Jewish pigs werent there", and viola! You've got yourself an angry mass of people ready to take up arms against you. For their own good reason too.

What I'm basically trying to argue here, is that no single conflict is one-sided. No one fights for no true reason of his own, and no one just hates for no reason of his own either. And all the biased propoganda that we post around here is just a fraction of the real picture. I simply showed you what you failed to see. But I support no action nor any side of this conflict, for they are both blind to the opposite. Yay for neutrality.


TFS? You know what? I think you write too long essees :/. Just looking at that got me so depressed that it made me wolf all my prozac. This is the one reason why you pwn in forum arguments.





(I would read it if I had Oxford dictionary & few hours time. Me so bad in england)

I "pwn" in forum arguements because I usually only argue when I can prove my point.

Anyway, Bugs. Zionism is just the prophesy that the Jews will one day come back to their homeland (which they did). And that's it, point blank. What most people mix Zionism with today is that it means "the Jews should be the ones (and the only ones) in Israel". The extermists on either side want the others out, so its pretty stupid now, because people actually think they can kick a whole nation out of its ancestral home.

What would I suggest? Someone knowlegable and uncorrput using Ghandi's method of peaceful revolt. Its the one thing that would stop this idiocy, but its also the hardest thing for an angry person to do. It wont really happen anyway.