The presidential debates on abc with Senator Kerry and President Bush just ended. Any comments? I know this is a big election concerning the war in iraq and some other issues such as the spread of nuclear weapons.

Do you guys think that one side did better than the other?
Is there a subject that they did not properly address?

If you have not seen the presidential debates, feel free to read the transcripts here (Edited link, now Wikipedia)

to sum it up very simply. Bush got Pwnt. i mean, bush got served, the servation was of an extraordinary magnitude. Bush was obviously unprepared for this debate. he stammered alot, and was always doing his chimp impression. there were several tiems where he looked dumbfounded and completely lost for words. to me it seemed that every question that was asked of bush somehow made its way to iraq being involved with Al-quaida (spelling?)

quote:
Quoted from George Bush

Of course we're after Saddam Hussein -- I mean bin Laden.



[:-crazy]

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6146353/

For those of you who care to participate, but were unable to watch. I'm in this catagory. My roommmate and I decided cable internet access was far more important than television. We don't even know if our basic stations work :P


I'm reading the transcript now, and will post when I've got something to say :p

-- edit --

ok I read it, and now all I can say is:
I've lost all hope in humanity.

To the other nations of the world, I sincerely apologize... we're all [:-censored]ed either way.

that is all

When we abide by debates in which the questions are screened beforehand, I lose interest. [B)] And Bush assumes too much...

Oh but it says they didn't know the questions beforehand. Don't you believe everything the media says?

By what I read Kerry was changing of mind all the time, that is not good in a president or US will become a [:-censored] like Spain, which soon is gonna be invaded by Morocco(US allied). The only thing he said is we can do better.
And it seems the only problems in US are foreign affairs.

If Bush weren't allowed to use words "freedom & liberation" when he talks about Iraq, he'd get pwned everytime when he opens his mouth.

quote:Originally posted by Social Poison
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6146353/

For those of you who care to participate, but were unable to watch. I'm in this catagory. My roommmate and I decided cable internet access was far more important than television. We don't even know if our basic stations work :P


I'm reading the transcript now, and will post when I've got something to say :p

-- edit --

ok I read it, and now all I can say is:
I've lost all hope in humanity.

To the other nations of the world, I sincerely apologize... we're all [:-censored]ed either way.

that is all



Sadly, it is true, it seems that our countries are screwed, and there won't be anything we can do about it, i'm taking more of an interest in American politics than Australian politics because G.B is absolutely hilarious, anyway, Bush is an idiot, and it seemed more like an argument between two mentally crippled (not naming names *cough*) than an actual debate.

From the MSNBC site, the thing that interested me the most was this:

quote:Originally from wwww.MSNBC.msn.com
"The president?s campaign continued the theme in the post-debate tradition of lobbying the media to put the best spin on its candidate?s performance. ?We still don?t know exactly what [Kerry?s] plan is in Iraq,? Matthew Dowd, Bush?s chief campaign strategist, told MSNBC."

I really do wonder what Kerry will do when he is elected about Iraq, (saying when here because someone I know got some statistics from ~612 people :P) and Osama, for he has still yet to be found, but what about other countries? Please excuse me if i'm wrong, but didn't they ship the supposed W.O.M.D to Korea? How do we know he won't just decide to search other, less or more suspiscious countries for them, causing more torment?

God, everything I said in the lines above was bull[:-censored], wasn't it?

It's like a tagline from "Alien vs. Predator"

Whoever wins... We lose

Anyway I'm not interested in politics, and this country but I think I'm gonna watch it anyway...

I really didn't like Kerry all that much before the debates, but like AA said, "Bush got Pwnt." He stumbled, avoided questions, and in made himself look like an idiot. The whole thing was very funny and informative.

Bush's main arguement seemed to be that Kerry was always changing sides, although Kerry clearly repeated his position (which went along with his decisions) and named off more than a few things the President had changed his mind about.

its time for me to become president and save this nation...

Politics would be more interesting if Kerry & Bush handled their debate by Smackdown typed wrestling. It would be pretty same as the original debate; they both have a script.

heh so true... either way this nations farked... unless someone steps up...
wonder how you become prez anyways.. i know you gota be 30 to become senate

quote:By what I read Kerry was changing of mind all the time, that is not good in a president or US will become a like Spain, which soon is gonna be invaded by Morocco(US allied). The only thing he said is we can do better.
And it seems the only problems in US are foreign affairs.


many say kerry is unclear...BUT if you too [:-censored]ing stupid to analyse his message, your too [:-censored]ing stupid to vote.

LOL what is his message? War was necessary but not necessary.Had not you seen he said contradictions?
If you are stupid it is your problem but I already experienced the consequences of having someone who does not know what he wants.

he thinks finishing thiss war is necessary, starting it was not.

I don't care about Kerry's history, that much, since the Bush [:-censored]-slinging-machine apparently didn't find anything large enough to chuck against his campaign headquarters - therefore he really can't be stood up against Bush in awkward past ... anecdotes. (Getting caught driving under the influence of WEED... dude, seriously - as well as avoiding military service, while Kerry won a service medal of distinction as well as three purple hearts O_o)

Anyway, point being that unless Kerry wins, not only will USA go f-wards, the rest of this world probably will. I mean, look at what Bush "accomplished" in FOUR YEARS: starting two wars (of which one was COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY [:-censored]ing use-/pointless), actually PROPOSED a law-motion for making US soldiers immune to foreign charges of warcrimes, managed to freeze down the financial assets of completely innocent moslem civilian citizens in EUROPEAN countries (three somalis in Sweden, for example, got their bank-accounts locked down) as well as establishing the common viewpoint of USA as the moral [:-censored]hole of this world.
Now imagine giving this man another four years...

Just, for the sake of everything, vote for Kerry. I've got many other things to say, but I'm kinda short on time... Anyway, vote Kerry!

"Whoever wins, we lose"

*is actually laughing*

Guys they BOTH dodged questions. And the thing is, I know the world looks at our election from the perspective of "Ok, what's this guy going to do in Iraq." And believe me that is a huge issue... but it boils down to this:

we're committed. We have to finish what we started. I honestly think Bush will do that. He'll finish up what he started in Iraq. Kerry... I don't know if Kerry is the man for the job if we're JUST talking about Iraq. He's a bit indecisive.

But

Bush's track record for domestic policy is disturbing.

4 companies (Woldcom, Tycho, Global Crossing and Enron) have all had CEOs or equivilent people get away with billions of dollars. Now, I know that's a job for the supreme court... not the president. But he should have said something beyond "They should do 10 years in prison." That's bull[:-censored]? 10 years? Ha. Drag these guys behind a car by their testicles.

No Child Left Behind. This was Bush's education program and it was a complete disaster. Basically it boils down to this: Your school had better meet education standards or else it'll lose federal funding. Ok wtf is that? How is a school that doesn't meet the standards elevate themselves to do so when you CUT THEIR DAMN FUNDING.

What's more: I live in Washington. And as part of compliance with NCLB we started the WASL tests. These tests took a week to take, and several more weeks to prep. Our schools no longer taught to their cirriculum, but "how to pass the WASL." I was in an English and a Math class that did this. We had to take time out of my Trig class to go back and learn "WASL" specific questions. It was crap.

Fortunatly for me, I was a Junior when it was implemented as a piolet, and you take it every 4 years or so. Translation: I was only going to take it once, and it didn't matter as far as my school's performance or my graduation.

My class had fun...

On the test booklets (the ones with the questions) there were sections. Math, reading etc. Now, if a section finished on the left page of the booklet... they didn't want you to read ahead to the next section. If a section ends on the left page, and the next begins on the adjacent page, you could read it with your extra time. So what they did was left the page blank and started on the opposite side (so as to not let us read ahead). On these pages they put "This page intentionally left blank"

Well. We had to write like 6 essays and we had the whole day to do it.

After five minutes I walked up and handed my test in. On every essay question I had written in big letters:

"This page intentionally left blank"

And some other people caught on and did the same. We had like this mini-protest against the WASL. I think only 19% of my graduating class passed all 4 sections. It was awsome. Plus I got to go home for the day.

"BRIAN Get back here and take the WASL!"
"I already did."
"...Well then you have to sit at your seat for the next 4 hours and wait for everyone else!"
"Whatever. Bye."

*keeps walking home*

Anyways... sorry for that tangent there... just a funny lil' anecdote.

----

Oh... right... bush's domestic policy.

He also gave a huge tax cut when every state in the union was having fiscal problems. That's money he could have used to fix schools or pay for utilities. It was rediculious. You want to know why the economy is struggeling? Because every 3 months a big effing company goes belly up and the CEO takes everyone's money... and NOTHING is done about it. THAT'S why. It doesn't take a genius to say "well, I just got raped 4 times in the stock market... time to call it quits"

*smacks Bush around with a trout*

Of course we're after Saddam Hussein -- I mean bin Laden.

I thought taht part of the debate was pretty funny :)

I will kill anyone who'll vote for Bush for the sole reason of thinking he'll do a better job at finishing the Iraq-conflict.
Even IF he would, you'd have to put up with another FOUR YEARS of agonizing political suicides that go unpunished just because the [:-censored]ing beer-drinking hillbilly-farmer is still euphoric with Budweiser and Bush's last, and uncannily resemblant to Hitler's speeches, press release, thereby placing his vote for another four years of global anguish.

Oh I know you're not directing that at me, Roland. I do think that Bush would do a better job in terms of "finishing what was started" in Iraq. I'm not saying Kerry wouldn't get the job done, I just think Bush would be better at finishing his own crack-pot plan.

And didn't I go into a big tyrade about how his domestic policy sucks? What was that? Oh you didn't read my whole post before commenting. I see, well I find that rather insulting. Maybe if you did you'd realize that I agree Bush would be a poor choice in terms of domestic issues. Take your idle threats over to someone who cares.

---

You know what? I think I am going to vote for Bush on the grounds that he'll do a better job in Iraq. You need my Address roland? Come get some.

"Take your idle threats over to someone who cares."

Take your inane replies to someone who actually would direct something like that towards you. You're the ignorant person in this.

" Oh I know you're not directing that at me, Roland." Guess what?! You're right!

So let me get this strait.

Out of nowhere you made the comment about killing someone for voting for Bush if he/she thought he'd do a better job in Iraq? You just happened to make that comment without any sort of prompting? Or is it in fact the case that you read my post, saw I made a comment about it and made your little threat. I'd wager it was the later, because it's verbadum what I said. That being the case you should clarify one the issue so you don't end up looking like an ass (too late).

quote:
You're the ignorant person in this.


Last I checked you were the person who said you'd kill over the issue. I may be ignorant but you're playing the crazed zealot.


Take a piece of advice Roland: Drop it. This is not a battle you're going to win.

We're gonna loose anyway, cause Iluminatis control everything, and Bush is one of their top pawns, he signed a Patriot Act that states:

`(5) the term `domestic terrorism' means activities that--

`(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;

That means even jaywalking is a an act of domestic terrorism...We have to get rid of the iluminatis first :P

cant we all just vote kerry, just for the hell of it, so that he can prove all the bush supporters wrong. kerry lied about a few things, so what? all politicians lie. at least he was acually prepared for the debate, bush was probably drawing a picture of Kerry on his paper between turns so that he could take it home and show Laura how he drew a funny picture of mean old Kerry. i think people vote for Bush because they think his stupidity is cute. its very possible that the american people are afraid of having an intelligent and competant president.

I dont see how someone who was constantly changing of mind was prepared for any debate. War was necessary no matter what had they said and who was in power, it was gonna happen anyways. Not only because US economy is so inmersed in war that it needs having wars every years, but because Iraq had violated UN statement of allowing his inspectors to check its armament. If Iraq was let without punishment more nations would follow its way of disallowing inspections. And appart from these 2 reasons and the petroleum US was asked by his allies in the zone like Arabian Saudi and Kuwait to control Iraq. 4 reasons that provoked that this war were unavoidable. Kerry knew this, that why he never was against war on Iraq(well, and because in that moment US stupidity was so incredible high that nobody would dare to be against attacking any muslim nation), but just because now some stupid people think that war is bad he said the contrary these days.

No, not out of nowhere - I commented my stance on the statement you made: quite simply, electing Bush just because you see him more fit finishing the Iraq-conflict. You really think its worth having him in the office for another four years so that he can pollute this earth furthermore by rewriting environmental laws, taking bribes from corporate owners, starting another war? I think not.
And this whole misunderstanding (coming from your side) - I made a statement NOT directed towards you. I didn't name you anywhere there, eh? If you feel struck by the comment, that's your problem - you're the one who's turned this into a mudslinging-fest.
If you wanna keep bitching about this, go ahead. I'm out of this.

Guys, this is a thread about how well they did in the debates. Of course everyone knows that Kerry is better than Bush, so you don't have to tell me that. Palloco must be confused.

Something that differs from americans and brits i've noticed, is that to some extent americans are interested in their politics throughout all age groups.

Brits on the otherhand know full well that no matter who gets the job, nothing ever really changes here.... *sigh*

Bush violated UN orders too....

w/e dude. You just made the dumb comment that you were going to kill, and generally speaking when you post in a forum it is in response to the person above you.

for example, if I had ONLY said with this post:
quote:
Man! You are a [:-censored]ING moron. I hope someone runs over your head with a H2


That would imply that I was speaking to karmazonpl (which I'm not, I'm merely posting an example). Keep that in mind next time.


*washes hands of it*

--------------------------------------------------------------


That's the big problem though. Bush violated UN orders. Iraq violated UN orders. And what's become of it? NOTHING. The UN is like a mother with a whole bunch of kids that run out of control because they know she won't follow up on her threats of dicipline.

quote:Originally posted by AerialAssault
to sum it up very simply. Bush got Pwnt. i mean, bush got served, the servation was of an extraordinary magnitude. Bush was obviously unprepared for this debate. he stammered alot, and was always doing his chimp impression. there were several tiems where he looked dumbfounded and completely lost for words.

so, you'll vote for kerry just because you dont want to vote for bush?
that is very wrong.

who told you that kerry will be any better then bush? NBC? FOX? kerry himself?
the funny thing about kerry, in my opinion, is that hes a fukin mystery. i dont know if hes gonna proceed the war (on iraq). i dunno if hes not. i dunno what will be his policy about internal affairs.
i dont know [:-censored] about him.

that is why, I, if i were a(n) US citizen, would grant my vote to Bush. with Bush i can handle, because i know what will be on his agenda (war --> yada yada yada --> war), and its fine by me.
on the other hand, kerry, as i said before, is a fukin mystery.


quote:Originally posted by AerialAssault

to me it seemed that every question that was asked of bush somehow made its way to iraq being involved with Al-quaida (spelling?)

well, thats because iraq provides sanctuary to al-qauida (hehe, typo i guess).


to be honest with you guys, i still dont understand WHAT was wrong about the war on/with iraq.
yes,
1)people's dieing is bad, and
2)spending enormous budget on it, that should've went to internal affairs is wrong, and
3)saying that there were any WOMD's in there, when there arent (i still think that there were, btw) is bad, BUT

1)saddam
2)was
3)evil.

btw, i'm really intrested about what will happen with Iran. i KNOW what bush will do to them. and that is why he (would've) get my vote.

*still waiting for someone to explain to him what is a kerry. thanks in advance*

the dice and me are one.

You are fighting in the wrong thread koil.

But to answer your question : FOX is republican dominated. So don't think I got any of my information about Kerry from there. Personally I like to watch news that gives me the straight stuff. That doesn't affect how I think of Bush at all. I didn't even like Kerry before the debates.

I am working for the US to stop funding the Isreal military and pull it's troops out of Iraq. The Iraqies have just as much a reason to fight, if not more than the Isrealies. My ideology is that killing is wrong. War is wrong. It shouldn't be. Simple as that.

Killing another person is never a justification for anything, and to think that my government supports that kind of behavior disgusts me.

Kim Jong II is evil, Fidel Castro is evil, hell, Jintao or however you spell that name is evil, USA does nothing about them, but Iraq of course has weapons of mass destruction growing on trees, and everyone there is a terrorist.

Um yeah, war is wrong, killing is wrong.

god i hate serious threads


:)

me too

quote:Originally posted by Elephant_Hunter
You are fighting in the wrong thread koil.

But to answer your question : FOX is republican dominated. So don't think I got any of my information about Kerry from there. Personally I like to watch news that gives me the straight stuff. That doesn't affect how I think of Bush at all. I didn't even like Kerry before the debates.

I am working for the US to stop funding the Isreal military and pull it's troops out of Iraq. The Iraqies have just as much a reason to fight, if not more than the Isrealies. My ideology is that killing is wrong. War is wrong. It shouldn't be. Simple as that.

Killing another person is never a justification for anything, and to think that my government supports that kind of behavior disgusts me.


not sure if i understand what you ment.
as far as i remember, all of the content on my post was related to kerry-bush-saddam. i could be wrong tho, i'll check it after i send this one.

what i've failed to see, is how come you fight in the wrong thread?
if you wanna make an anti-israel (i'm not gonna make you an anti semite. dont worry about that. youre just anti-israel, which is acceptable by me) post, then go to the one that SK made (AKA 'disturbing video here' or something like that).

i dont like to be petty, so i'll comment about all of your post, regardless of how relevent they are to this thread.

quote:My ideology is that killing is wrong. War is wrong. It shouldn't be. Simple as that.
ofcourse its wrong. you wont see any objection from me about that statement. but, what should you do if the war already started?
truce is out of the question, seeing as this is a war, and any sign of weakness could tear you apart from the land you are walking on.

we tried that. i hope your long-term memory isnt biased by your opinion. if it is, then you shouldnt remember the 'oslo agreement' (1993), 'road map' (clinton, rabin and arafat), and recent 'hodnas' (mainly on 2001-2002 i belive).

quote:Killing another person is never a justification for anything, and to think that my government supports that kind of behavior disgusts me.
then i guess your country supports palestin too. remember, it takes 2 to tango. [:-bonc01]

-no dice. just plain ol' koil. thanks a bunch for your patience while reading this, and i hope i wont be sorry about the content in this post tommorow. cheers.

quote:Originally posted by Elephant_Hunter
My ideology is that killing is wrong. War is wrong. It shouldn't be. Simple as that.

Killing another person is never a justification for anything, and to think that my government supports that kind of behavior disgusts me.


Stupid ideology.
So you better want someone killing thousands of people rather than simply killing him

no he doesn't want any killing

*shrugs*

It's just not going to heppen. Sorry. People kill eachother, they've been doing it for all of history.

yup, but it's still wrong :(

I agree with Elephant Hunter...but even if it ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY then you must do it.

I am not anti-israel and never will be. Don't label people like that. I am simply ANTI-WAR. Bush looks like he will cause more casualties than Kerry, so that is primarily why I am against him. Please understand this.

Clinton said it best with "When people are feeling insecure, they'd rather have someone who is strong and wrong rather than somebody who is weak and right." With all the terrorism, all the war and scary messages--I think I'd want someone strong too, even if they're wrong. That's why people will vote for Bush; because he is so strong and clear with what he believes in.

Up til now, most of Kerry's messages haven't been simple and clear. They're pretty true--because the world isn't simple--but people like Bush because with him, everything's black and white. What Kerry believes in is better than Bush, I'm sure of that, but if the voting public doesn't get it, he won't get in.

That changed with the debates, to me. Kerry was as intellectual as ever, but he seemed more focused and clear. He has messages which he got across very well. He did well. Hopefully he'll get in.

Incidently, a line I heard afterwards made me laugh. A Bush supporter and a Kerry supporter were talking to a talkshow host. The Bush supporter made the usual jab 'Bush has been consistent with the American people, unlike Kerry' etc etc. The Kerry supporter broke in and said 'Yeah, consistently wrong!' Ha.