Everyone has a different idea of whats ok and whats not in the great game of Soldat. What do you think? Is camping ok? Is camping ok with a barrett? Is an alpha waiting for the flag to show back up in a inf map spawn camping? How about when you have the flag in ctf_btb, and you m79 jump up above your spawn, waiting unharmed for your flag to be returned. What's your Soldat moral code?

Well... Camping is cheap... But I get mixed feelings about spawn camping... Either it's them, or you, and theres really nothing else you can do other than support the flagbearer... Unless theres people that haven't been killed yet... M79 jumping behind the polygons in B2B is just lame, doing it to get around quickly is okay with me, though.

Well, i think camping is lame but...If there wasnt camping and *Lameness* there wouldnt be a challenge. I couldnt see a game of soldat without m79 or barret. And Spawnkilling i must agree with Lazeh its either you or them. What should you do stand there? And let them kill you just to get them not to whine?

quote:Is camping ok? Is camping ok with a barrett?
Sure, but if you are camping, camping with a barrett... or using a barrett period you are not allowed to claim you "owned" someone. It just doesn't happen unless you have made an exceptionally great shot.

quote:Is an alpha waiting for the flag to show back up in a inf map spawn camping?
The only inf map where waiting on the flag pedistal could be spawn camping is Warehouse, and I don't think it's even an issue there :-/ . now... SHOULD you be there? No, you should be escorting the flag bearer back to the base. Inf is a team game.

quote:How about when you have the flag in ctf_btb, and you m79 jump up above your spawn, waiting unharmed for your flag to be returned.

Unethical. Plain and simple. You're abusing an aspect of the game which in turn gives you far to great an advantage. I woudn't be suprised to see this fixed in the next version.

camping is a sound, successful strategy, though unethical because of the unfair advantage it poses. Alpha waiting for flag, not unethical, not spawnkilling, as in your question, you are just waiting, not killing. last one is definately unethical, abusing bugs, and you anyone who does it should get kicked. though it is fun flying up there and shooting the ground on which they stand with a m79, sending them backwards and respawning them, returning your team's flag.

Low down and simple, the ethics of any game resort to the fairness.

The fairness is all about the the balance of the challenge. Giving yourself too much of an advantage poses far less a challenge for you, and too difficult for your opponent.

Camping for example is at most a questionable subject because of the above. Hiding somewhere too difficult for most to reach is clearly unfair. And using cheats is the extremity and is clearly in violation of fairness - and thus the challenge.


(god I love myself.)

Camping? Can be a relatively effective strategy for defending.
Camping with barret? Why camp with anything else? As long as you can tolerate constant complaining.
Inf spawn camping while waiting for flag? It's frustrating for blue and can be avoided. Personally, I go wait somewhere else until the flag comes back (usually some place where I can observe the spawn/flag area) or go try to find the flagger, but I don't necessarily think somebody should be kicked for hanging out. I might think they're a coward opportunist though...
b2b hiding behind the spawn? People who do that are gutless cowards who are afraid to fight someone face-to-face. In my opinion that is the unintentional result of Michal reinstating the old physics with newer maps made with the 1.1.x physics in mind.

I guess my "Soldat moral code" is anything goes unless it is exploiting bugs or aspects of maps or gameplay that are unintentional. If it was meant to be in the game, it's ok. Poly bugs, law bugs, knife bugs and the like are on the same level with hacks in my mind. With each additional update, Michal eliminates more and more of these exploits.

I sort of agree with Chakra here. IMO, you can do anything the game was designed for you to do. I don't like spawn camping, and it could be avoided if more spawns were like B2B instead of Viet. But Camping, Barretting, using a Minimi or an M79, I don't care. The only thing that pisses me off is hiding behind polygons/hacking/m79 jumping out of the arena (b2b).

I don't think people will ever stop whining about the barrett. And I don't think I'll ever care.

Is it cheap when YOU do it? It's really your decision and there will be no clear opinion...

You know the world is in bad shape when people are talking about ETHICS of a game...and camping.

Would you rather have at our throats over the people who run our country, or would you rather get together and play a game of Soldat? A fair game of Soldat... I dunno, Famine, you decide.

I guess the only way to know what's moral and what's not is by listening to the players around you. Sometimes people will get annoyed at something you're doing. If it happens over and over, you should try to improve on that. I think Mirrorman said it in the best way possible. Short and with a simple mask.

ahh wtf ..who cares, everyone whines cries and pisses other people off. there is nothing okay and not okay. just do wtf you want to do. i know, i do it too

I think camping is ok in moderate amounts, hiding on b2b is lame but if they do it, you do it, staying at the flag on an inf is fine, spawn camping it depends whether you actually intend to kill players as they spawn or if you were just running around and they spawn near you

It pretty much goes as: "Whatever is meant to be done in the game is ethical. If someone does soemthing that was not meant to be done in the game, it is unethical."

Question is: what is meant to be included in the game and what wasnt?

I know for sure that camping is ethical, the barret was given extra sight range on prone and crouch modes, so the game designer must have intended it to be like that, and have that advantage.

The thing about flying atop the spawn in B2b, depends. Who'se to say they knew that Michal left that top spot open just for "waiting" un-noticed. Then again, who knows if Michal made that big, tall wall to keep people from climbing it?

This is all moral crap that I tend not to deal with too much. I disrespect those using "cheap" (easy) tactics, but then again, they're just doing what they feel is cool/smart/nifty/1337 to do to beat the enemy, just as I use the ole' conventional way of playing Soldat. :)

If you get pinned by a camper, well thats too bad, even though it's cheap, you've been out played and you're dead, getting frustrated and whining aint going to do anything. But i do admit you can only camp for a certain amount of time before it is considered "REALLY cheap".

..not another one of these threads..

There is nothing unethical about camping, usually it just makes a game slow and boring. Besides, its in situations where (in public servers) two thirds of your team is camping right by your base, its not unethical, its just useless most of the time.
Spawncamping is however a bitch. U have no choice where to spawn, u drop down, and, if someone feels like killing u, the easiest way of surviving is a miss from the opponent. Yeah, u can jump and roll, but, usually ure dead before u can do anything useful.

going over the top in b2b is also [:-censored]ty, it takes a mini or a m79 to take someone down from there.

i'm anti camper and anti barret... and i know how to dodge them relitivly good... but i can not revel the secrets... for example when i pwned two campers (1 barreturd and one nade launcher it was awsome when i did... ) they leave and Never come back unless they use a different name.
/endrant
campers and barrets are for people who don't have skill and uses those gay tatics to make up for it.

Agreed DT ^ :)

please don't turn this into another camping/barret thread, there's been enough of those, what about some of the cheaper methods of winning? Is anyone gonna talk about spawncamping? AFK killing? Teamkilling? The Minigun? There's more important issues than just those two...

Now, some points of my view about these:

Camping? With barrett? Well, you can't really camp without any other weapon than that, actually, if we don't count M72 LAW. Camping itself is of course all right. There's nothing wrong with that, because camping can be considered as a defensive strategy; if you try to defend flag et cetera.

HOWEVER, there are limits of so called "defending". _Some_ people are camping with barrett, let's say in ctf_run, at the either side of tunnel near the base of ENEMY while their own flag is safely where it should be and there's no friendly flag carrier even nearby, claiming 'they're defending own flag'. What are they defending with that? The tunnel? Well, not their own flag at least.

But as I stated before, there is nothing wrong with camping as long as it is for defensive strategy. But since you can't really do anything about it right now, it is as much as useless to complain about camping AT ALL.

Now what comes to inf "spawn camping" (a good example, Warehouse), I can't say much about it, expect you should just make sure the friendly flag carrier gets safely back to his own base, just like a good team player should do. You never know what happens to him if you leave him alone.

And about m79 jumping to top of ctf_b2b while being a flag carrier (well, what other reason would be to go there) should not be accepted in any way which is fairly obvious.

Just some opinions of mine :)

EDIT: As a request of previous poster, I talk about those things as well ;)

Spawnkilling, well, is very annoying, but still, you can't really do much about it right now, can you? You just have to live with it, somehow :) And about AFK killing, yes, it's annoying but then again it's fairly useless unless you're in server which gives you some kind of stats, I think. And people look minigun down too much. It actually owns if used correctly. It isn't as useless as some people might think at first glance :)

anything is legal besides hacking. camping for example... if it was that big of a problem then Michael would have put something in to prevent it, maybe take away health if you stay in one place for too long, or maybe only if you camp on the offense or something... and yes it would warrant that big of a change if it was as big of a problem as some of you little girls make it out to be.

there was actually a rather long discussion going on in the "IdiotBox" on my site today, see below:

START AT THE BOTTOM AND READ UP, this is reverse chronological order

Alucard: genius empyrium...sheer genius

alucard: can you add total kills next to the top 100 ranks...that way i can tell who is new and who has actually been there for a while

Empyrium: for the site, maybe players could give eachother titles or something like that... Or just a comment box under their stats where we can put what we think of that player... just a suggestion though

Empyrium: Backtracking a little, it was as you said Judge Man, the guy I came across in that spot was too good, he always killed the first two through. And after that, he was picking us of as we spawned...

Sewer: Flies maybe you could add a flag-cap percentage. For example, the best I found among the big players is kkazican's 40%.. I think it's a worthy stat.

Sewer: and i like to saw-defend (camp?) in the flag spots on viet.

Sewer: B2b has those trees..

Alucard: that and i finally made the top ten on barret and law lists...WHEEEEHAAAAA

Alucard: people just don't like me because i am good at what i do (which is defending)...anyway...thatnks

Alucard: thanks for the vote of confidence judge man...unfortunately i was halfway camping last nite...too tired to really jump around and make hell...but i did move some of the time...

Judge Man: But as you said, we don't see campers there often in U13

Judge Man: And if he is too good and kill you everytime you pass falling fast in front of him, just fly all the way over and come back from behind with same tactic

Judge Man: after that i pass trought and go take flag to score but you can kill the guy by nading or going in if he missed shot its easy

Judge Man: hmmm Usualy when i get pwn by a camper there, i go out of blue base by the top and drop fast in front of him so its harder to hit me, then i shot under him so he go back in the hole and usualy after

Empyrium: done, that should work...

Judge Man: Email: thelaziestman@hotmail.com Yeah lazy loll

Empyrium: email, msn, or what other way would you like it sent?

Judge Man: Ok Emp, i want the Screenshot

Judge Man: You are so Damn right! Like when you go in a Uber noobish server, You SO pwn them and you leave after one map cause its Too easy

Empyrium: Laos, there is one for alpha team... Could proly get a screenshot of it if you like.

FliesLikeABrick: if it is challenging to kill someone, that just means you can still get better. If it were easy to kill everyone you would get bored very quickly

Judge Man: Which map there is a " spot-that-make-a-camper-near-invinsible" ??

-SL- Nigger Jonas: Yeah, we did kill him many times. Though on some maps a camper in a certain spot isn't that easy to kill - possible though. But it's still annoying.

Judge Man: OR go 2 at a timein the tunnel, one suicide for the other to kill ALucard ITS not That hard to kill a camper ,YO! lol

Judge Man: Just don't go in the tunnel OR come for Their base and kill him in Da back lol . But when ive played with him he wasnt camping like that ....anyway...

-SL- Nigger Jonas: And I played with Alucard today - and he camped. In Run he just stayed in the tunnel near our base and if we tried to get to the tunnel he shot, and only moved (back) if he got killed. Other maps too.

Judge Man: I don't camp either but when there is one in a game, i don't start yelling at him like crazy, i just try different ways to kill him after he pwned me 2-3 times but Campers ARE killable

-SL- Nigger Jonas: But true, it is legal. That doesn't mean we couldn't consider campers assholes. Camping ruins the fun for others - I don't find camping much fun anyways.

Judge Man: Jonas Absolutly not, I have played with Alucard many times and he doesn't stay in one spot Killing everyone in sniper line, he stay in base killing peeps comming but HE moves

Judge Man: Right, camping is legal but almost 99% of players just hate campers and they think that defending is the same thing which is wrong. So, let peeps defend as they want. Just be better so u die less lol

-SL- Nigger Jonas: Well, if that's the definition, then Alucard definitely is camping, not defending.

FliesLikeABrick: the way i see it, camping is legal anyway. If it wasnt, then Michael would have put something in the game to discourage camping. There are many ways he could have done something.

Judge Man: Camping = you stay in ONE spot and kill like a chiken with a barret. Defending = You'r at your base and move to kill everyone trying to get the flag (harder than camping)

Judge Man: Alucard doesn't camp at all, he defend and he's good at this but some peeps just don't understand. Defending is NOT camping.

|US|Claw: Indeed, at least i love it but i don't like to get killed bu camping whore >8(

-SL- Nigger Jonas: What do you mean - camper? He's just a great defender - and a bit bad at pressing the movement keys.

Ezko: Nobody likes campers

quote:Originally posted by FliesLikeABrick
anything is legal besides hacking. camping for example... if it was that big of a problem then Michael would have put something in to prevent it, maybe take away health if you stay in one place for too long, or maybe only if you camp on the offense or something... and yes it would warrant that big of a change if it was as big of a problem as some of you little girls make it out to be.

there was actually a rather long discussion going on in the "IdiotBox" on my site today, see below:

START AT THE BOTTOM AND READ UP, this is reverse chronological order

Alucard: genius empyrium...sheer genius

alucard: can you add total kills next to the top 100 ranks...that way i can tell who is new and who has actually been there for a while

Empyrium: for the site, maybe players could give eachother titles or something like that... Or just a comment box under their stats where we can put what we think of that player... just a suggestion though

Empyrium: Backtracking a little, it was as you said Judge Man, the guy I came across in that spot was too good, he always killed the first two through. And after that, he was picking us of as we spawned...

Sewer: Flies maybe you could add a flag-cap percentage. For example, the best I found among the big players is kkazican's 40%.. I think it's a worthy stat.

Sewer: and i like to saw-defend (camp?) in the flag spots on viet.

Sewer: B2b has those trees..

Alucard: that and i finally made the top ten on barret and law lists...WHEEEEHAAAAA

Alucard: people just don't like me because i am good at what i do (which is defending)...anyway...thatnks

Alucard: thanks for the vote of confidence judge man...unfortunately i was halfway camping last nite...too tired to really jump around and make hell...but i did move some of the time...

Judge Man: But as you said, we don't see campers there often in U13

Judge Man: And if he is too good and kill you everytime you pass falling fast in front of him, just fly all the way over and come back from behind with same tactic

Judge Man: after that i pass trought and go take flag to score but you can kill the guy by nading or going in if he missed shot its easy

Judge Man: hmmm Usualy when i get pwn by a camper there, i go out of blue base by the top and drop fast in front of him so its harder to hit me, then i shot under him so he go back in the hole and usualy after

Empyrium: done, that should work...

Judge Man: Email: thelaziestman@hotmail.com Yeah lazy loll

Empyrium: email, msn, or what other way would you like it sent?

Judge Man: Ok Emp, i want the Screenshot

Judge Man: You are so Damn right! Like when you go in a Uber noobish server, You SO pwn them and you leave after one map cause its Too easy

Empyrium: Laos, there is one for alpha team... Could proly get a screenshot of it if you like.

FliesLikeABrick: if it is challenging to kill someone, that just means you can still get better. If it were easy to kill everyone you would get bored very quickly

Judge Man: Which map there is a " spot-that-make-a-camper-near-invinsible" ??

-SL- Nigger Jonas: Yeah, we did kill him many times. Though on some maps a camper in a certain spot isn't that easy to kill - possible though. But it's still annoying.

Judge Man: OR go 2 at a timein the tunnel, one suicide for the other to kill ALucard ITS not That hard to kill a camper ,YO! lol

Judge Man: Just don't go in the tunnel OR come for Their base and kill him in Da back lol . But when ive played with him he wasnt camping like that ....anyway...

-SL- Nigger Jonas: And I played with Alucard today - and he camped. In Run he just stayed in the tunnel near our base and if we tried to get to the tunnel he shot, and only moved (back) if he got killed. Other maps too.

Judge Man: I don't camp either but when there is one in a game, i don't start yelling at him like crazy, i just try different ways to kill him after he pwned me 2-3 times but Campers ARE killable

-SL- Nigger Jonas: But true, it is legal. That doesn't mean we couldn't consider campers assholes. Camping ruins the fun for others - I don't find camping much fun anyways.

Judge Man: Jonas Absolutly not, I have played with Alucard many times and he doesn't stay in one spot Killing everyone in sniper line, he stay in base killing peeps comming but HE moves

Judge Man: Right, camping is legal but almost 99% of players just hate campers and they think that defending is the same thing which is wrong. So, let peeps defend as they want. Just be better so u die less lol

-SL- Nigger Jonas: Well, if that's the definition, then Alucard definitely is camping, not defending.

FliesLikeABrick: the way i see it, camping is legal anyway. If it wasnt, then Michael would have put something in the game to discourage camping. There are many ways he could have done something.

Judge Man: Camping = you stay in ONE spot and kill like a chiken with a barret. Defending = You'r at your base and move to kill everyone trying to get the flag (harder than camping)

Judge Man: Alucard doesn't camp at all, he defend and he's good at this but some peeps just don't understand. Defending is NOT camping.

|US|Claw: Indeed, at least i love it but i don't like to get killed bu camping whore >8(

-SL- Nigger Jonas: What do you mean - camper? He's just a great defender - and a bit bad at pressing the movement keys.

Ezko: Nobody likes campers





I suppose camping is a problem, but it all depends on how you handle it, keep your cool and don't explode... people admire the kind noob over the 1337 obcene idiot... avoid blowing up about it, if you're killed once by a camper, you most likely know where they are... so seek vengence

(O.T. Embarassing as it is... alucard was my former crew leader... I don't remember him being such a barreter though... [:P])

Ethics? LOL
Learn to have fun playing soldat or dont play, that is all.

hard to have fun when your always at a disadvantage becuse of campers and barreturds... i rather not have any advantages... people strive for advantages so much and pcik on the ones that do not have one... its just human nature...

Kaz, i'd rather jusst PLAY then argue half the time

HA! ethics in game....

quote:Originally posted by palloco
Ethics? LOL
Learn to have fun playing soldat or dont play, that is all.



..hackers seem to have alot of fun.

*slaps pallaco for being thick as [:-censored] all the time*

This is kinda off topic but do you guys think the m79 is cheap?

quote:Originally posted by Kirby_106
This is kinda off topic but do you guys think the m79 is cheap?

thanks for changing the subject... but i do think its kinda cheap but it does have a dissadvantage with range.

IMO, I don't see why one would choose it when the barrett is available. Expect perhaps the very meager splash damage, or the ability to shoot over hills.

I don't think M79 is cheap, it has alot of disadvantage in its range. And it's fun. BUT back on the subject... Chakra puts it nicely, there's a limit as to the lengths you can go to have fun.

quote:Originally posted by Spectral
last one is definately unethical, abusing bugs, and you anyone who does it should get kicked.

It's not a bug or cheat, it's the design of ctf_b2b and m79. The attacker has advantage over the flag carrier, try throwing lots of nades at someone camping behind the b2b wall.

Camping (sniping) is the only correct way of using barret.

Camping isn't the only correct way, you can snipe, but not camp... You can shoot enemies from afar, but still attack with others, as that is what CTF is for; teamplay. And the attacker doesn't have an advantage, that supposed advantage was unintentional, and is found as abuse.

If you are unable to fight against script kiddies you sux. All of them are idiots unable to stand against anyone, people who know to fight dont use them because they do not need anything to own.
Disadvantage against someone who uses a weapon of soldat? Dont you see how stupid is that affirmation?

Funny. hohoo says it's ok to use an m79 to hide behind the polys in b2b but then says barret should only be used while camping. Does that come across as humerous to anybody else? Just me? Ok...

*slaps pallaco again*

Look at the situation before commenting luv. This is soldat. Many of the weapons have different attributes and abilities, leaving us to question how beneficial some weapon-advantages are when compared to others. ie, eg, aka: fairness and the ethics involved in abusing them. Hence we're talking about it in this topic dude.

To put it simply, just because it's there don't mean it's right. Take wasps for example...

Mike has had dozens of versions to streamline the weapon balance. I think at this point it's close to as balanced as it will ever be. With the exception of blowing yourself out of polygons with the M79, I don't think there is a way to unethically abuse a weapon. If we took the barett out, everyone would complain abou the M79. If we took that out, everyone would complain about the ruger's high damage or the minimi's nearly bottomless magazine. Or something. Every game I've ever played online, someone's got something mean to say about the attacker being "unethical" because the guy being attacked doesn't have the skill to avoid dying. The fact that it is even brought up is a good indication of the age range of soldat players.

quote:Originally posted by kevith
Funny. hohoo says it's ok to use an m79 to hide behind the polys in b2b but then says barret should only be used while camping. Does that come across as humerous to anybody else? Just me? Ok...
It's as lame as barrett assaulting.

Lol when I opened this topic I thought somebody didnt like my signature :p

"To put it simply, just because it's there don't mean it's right. Take wasps for example..."

ugh? That is a nonsense. We need wasps, therefore you are saying we need barret

...

Ugh. I won't say it's nonesense because you can believe whatever you want to. The confusion comes from others' immorality. Some people are stuck in the midst of no knowing what to do, who to side with, and who to be like. Some don't have fun with what the game was meant to be, others aren't content with alternatives, and most aren't very happy with the forced changes (i.e. hacking, power abuse, etc.). One or more of those aren't right, which is most likely why we all have such different opinions. Truth is, if you stick to your thoughts and leave no room for compromise, you'll continue to argue.

My whole post might seem off-topic, or maybe even in no way relevant, but just think about it and you'll probably find some sort of connection.

I connect with your post completely Kazuki. They're all talking [:-censored] 'cept me!

Excuse me now while I go wasp-gathering.

lol, That just brought my hopes up, and then pummeled them into the ground. :P Good luck with the connection between wasps and your face. :D

You continue arguing therefore you you are leaving no room for compromise. And for what compromise? And who are you to say what is this game intended to be? Are you saying that firing barret is a bug of the game? The people complaining here were complaining about camping, which is absurd.