YES!!! IN YOUR CREEPY FACE KERRY!!

Both candidates werent a too good choice, but the US citizen definitely picked the worse one (once again). :/

GD, what do you honestly know about american polotics? ( honest question) living in austria, I'm sure your country as polotical issues of it's own, so instead of whining how bush is evil, and a retard, and whatever else most of the pre-pubesent, "think how my mommy, and daddy tell me", belive in the media, un-educated children around here think their opinion is. I want honest polotical reasons of why you dislike bush. Jeesus, I'm so tired of all day hearing people gripe about how kerry lost, kerry didn't lose, THE NOOB QUIT!!!! do you understand what a consession IS??? it means, "nah, I guess I really didn't want to, here ya go" so I don't want to hear( or read....whatever) a single complaint on how the election was rigged,goofed, screwed up, whatever, ok, your "golden boy of the people" quit, threw in the towel, called it a day, ADMITTED THAT HE WAS TOO MUCH OF A WUSS TO BE PRESIDENT!

I may not totally agree with bush on everything, but when it's a retard, or communisim ( kerry...) I'll chose the retard. any day.

noobile...you are like the physical manifestation of irony. its traditional for the losing candidate to conceed before he loses officially, just like its traditional for each candidate to vote for each other.

kerry --> communism? i can't see the link.
Someone enlighten me please :(

It's neither good nor bad that he won, it just depends on how you look at it.

Thank you Buddah :P

Guys seriously. People like GD, go [:-censored] yourself. You look to the american voters and say "get that guy out" when for all you know it's Hitler's long lost son running against Bush. I voted for Kerry, but I wasn't really that happy about it. The two were nearly identicle on all issues save for like... Abortion.

Even if Bush was out of office we'd still be stuck in Iraq. This won't change [:-censored].

[edit]

and t, shaddup. Your guy is responsible for the biggest increase in our national deficit of all time among many other problems. I seriously hope you didn't just vote on your religious lines like some people I know. That sort of crap is just plain scary.

Allrighty Denake.... sit down, grab a cup of coffee, this'll take a minute
Kerry:
Supports SOCALIZED medecine ( governmentally funded)
Supports SOCALIZED welfare ( governmentally funded, by taxpayers dollars )
Supports many SOCIAL "Special needs" programs
Supports "affarmative action" ( I'll explain why I'm against this in a bit, so stop the hitler garbage now)
Supports " a global test" I.E. ( from what I've gathered) to stop all military action, re organize, and retry (I'll explain this too...)


AGAINST the 2nd ammendment(right to bear arms)
AGAINST fiscal spending reform (see: what he supports)
AGAINST military upkeep (not that I agree with this "war",but brokendown equipment sucks rectal sphincter)
AGAINST gay "marrage" ( do you really give a flying [:-censored...] what two people do? )


Now to my explanation of why kerry is a pinko commie bas7ard, firstly, he supports making the american public as dependant as humanly possile on, the government ( welfare, medecine, special"needs" programs, affermative action) All of these things, makes YOU as an american citizen dependant on the government, for oh, say, your penicillin shot, because you boinked too many hookers. Who's responsible for picking up the working ladies? you, not all of america, money for these things has to come from somewhere, and why should you have to pay for their transgressions? Not good in my book, look at Germany, Canada, England, I have friends who live there, and come HERE for healthcare ( non-emergency type stuff, duh ). Why? because socalized medecine does NOT work. The "welfare" system.... sheesh, what a joke, basically says, sell your house,car, most of your possessions, quit your job, move into governmentally funded housing ( read : ghetto ) spit out nine or ten kids, adn we'll give you money. guess where that money comes from? the american taxpayer. yep, you and I are paying for Dasheeke, and Shantrey, and the white trash to sit around, spit out kids, and do nothing. ( oooh, was I "politically incorrect saying that? bite me.) Next, we'll open the can of worms that is "Affarmative Action" In a nutshell, it states that buisness cannot discriminate, good, fine, they shouldn't, However, because of these things called "lobbyists" AA has gotten to the point, where buisnessess HAVE to hire people of other color,creed,whatever because "lobbyists" said they werent doing enough. That means, that your local fire department,police,emergency medical personell, HAVE to have at least one person of other ethnicity, even if, a white guy is more qualified. IMHO thats crap, total utter crap. Why should I have to hire a guy who isn't as qualified as somone else, soley based on the color of his/her skin, that sounds kinda like reverse-racisim to me doesn't it? Works the same for college tuition loans/grants too. I was Denied a grant because I wasn't tan enough, while the college up here is 70%white, 10%black, 20%other. money was still there, I applied two months before school even started, but no, I have to fork out 27,000.00 out of pocket, because I'm white. Moving on, this " global test"..STUPID IDEA PAL!! I'm not saying that gorgey was right invading another soverign nation, that had made NO acts of agression directly against us EVER, but, you can't go into a place, rip out it's ruling authority, take over for a while, and then ....leave. no. that leads to nothing but problems, because here are these people, who have nothing at all to do with bushies "war" but have no political direction/recourse. meaning that I can go over, and take over the place, as long as I have more guns than the next guy. Wich leads to more needless fighting,death....etc. etc.


Now, being against MY right to keep and bear arms, slightly rubs me the wrong way, yes, there is temperance there, I have no NEED to have a browning M2 in my living room, but what civvie does? However, having automatic assault rifles, yes, I agree with the average citizen's need to keep and bear those ( you swiss people have it made, lemme tell ya..) This country( Ironically....Arial Assault....) was founded by the modern day equivilance of terrorists. think about it, a group of people who left, started their own place, and fought off opression by the dirtiest means necessary, and possible, and prevailed. It was written into the constitution to keep and bear arms, in case anyone tries to take this place back, and opress the people again. You try, we shoot, that simple pal. Now many of you say" that'll never happen""not in this day and age" uh huh, they said that while genghis Kahn was taking over the known world at the time too.... he'll never reach here.. they couldn't, Anything that can happen, will. On another note, Fiscal spending reform. what was the defecit? 800Bil? so, making taxpayers pay more taxes for stuff that they do already, but the gov't divvies up the cash, and allocates it as needed as per social needs, is going to lessen the defecit? I don't remember that being a right answer on my economics tests, infact, I remember that being wrong, because the gov't overspends on things that the "social programs need", ooh, and don't forget overhead, 70cents out of every dollar paid in taxes goes to "administrative" costs ( I.E. the stupid bint who licks the stamps, or presses "start" on the copy machine) Rediculous. Military upkeep. a very touchy topic with me, as it hits home on more levels than most, if not all, can understand. Kerry has a proven voting record of voting against upping the budget for solders in combat for things like, oh radios, ballistic vests, ammo, new boots. As great as this military is, and as sophisticated,and advanced as they are, they need basic things like boots, half the time, while I was working, the batteries would fall out of the radio, because they didn't fit properly anymore, ammo was a *reasonably* scarse thing. Two clips, per week per person, per weapon, that equates to roughly 80 rounds for the average infantryman to use just as marksmanship upkeep, per week. I shoot 3 times more than that in one session, per week. Anyhoo... Kerry also Voted AGAINST gay marrage. Now, yes, I am a registered republican, However, The divorce rate in this country is abhorring, nearly 40%of all marrages end in divorce, great job folks. Stastically speaking, gay and lesbian couples stay together 10-15 years longer than the average non-homosexual couple, I guess they've got the living partner thing figured out, why NOT let them get married? Oh, it's a relegious thing? I do remember somthing from Highschool government classes about a seperation of church and state, now I may be taking it wrong, but that seems like jesus is trying to tell this country how to decide it's issues, not the citizens, ok, sure 9 states voted gay marrage down completely...ok, so gay's can't get married in those states, but what about the rest of them? and why does the federal government have to rear it's ugly head in somthing that is a states descion as to wether or not it can be done, because when you get married, it's not a federal mandate, it's a state's? And this commie voted against it, "hero of the people" as he was once called. so much for that. he can be a hero to every single other person, just not the roughly 6% of openly gay couples in america, so out of the 281,421,906 people in america, 16,885,314 were abandoned. Equal rights? no.


Arial Assaut: tradition, no. It's a niceity. All of the votes werent even counted when he made that descion, he saw the popular vote numbers were insurmountable, and knew that if he did get into office, his approval rating would be less than bushies was a week ago, and what socalist would want the people not liking him? that leads to dissent, dissent makes people angry, and if the populace is angry, they might revolt against him, and his descions. That and the fact that the democrats lost more seats in the house, and senate, and he be in the same posotion that gorgey was in when 4 years ago, when he tried to get a bunch of laws, and bills passed, and they were blocked by senate, because they were mad that george had won. He did the smart thing giving up, he knew he was screwed, and he's got 4 years to re-plan and re-think strageties, mabye re-decide his stance on some issues.



Information was gathered from the following sites

http://www.answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=271269
http://sitesearch.aflcio.org/search/?sp-q=John+Kerry&x=0&y=0&sp-a=sp1002b6e1&sp-p=all&sp-f=ISO-8859-1&sp-s=1&sp-k=&parentdir=issuespolitics


http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/DTTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=01000US&-ds_name=DEC_2000_SF1_U&-_lang=en&-mt_name=DEC_2000_SF1_U_P001&-format=&-CONTEXT=dt

You have friends who come here for medicine? Non-cosmetic drugs are
partially covered and are still much cheaper there than in America. The
canadians I know are proud of their healthcare system.

On the subject of guns... The second article of the bill of rights
specifically states that you have right to bear arms as required for a
well regulated Militia. Common people have no use for objects
primarily used as weapons.

http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Amend.html

Edit: No offence, but you might try trimming down your paragraphs. You did a good job with them.

In a perfect soceity, yes, no-one has a use for a device specifically employed to kill, however, when written, the common man, WAS the militia, and that is how things still are in some places of america. For example, we'll say that, canada, or mexico decides that it's a bright idea to invade america,whats the first thing that be encountered? I know personally how well one single motivated man, when threatened, can defend himself, and his country with fervency, cunning, and skill. It says you live in america, so I will pose to you the same scenario I posed earlier, if invaded, would you do anything? or just sit there and wait to die,be captured,tortured,or worse. And how are you to do anything, if disarmed? That, imho, is why most other countries wouldn't even think about waging a land war with us, they think that we're all gun toting maniacs, who'll kill you for looking at us wrong. While untrue, the vast majority of americans are armed, and should be considered dangerous when threatened. Which brings me back to the beginning of this response, we don't live in a perfect soceity, therefore, you have need, and use for a weapon. When somone comes into your house, and threatens you, and your family, how will you react? I know that they're dead as soon as they come completely into my house, a 3&1/2 inch solid piece of hollowpointed copper with a lead core says so, IF I feel threatened, if not, I'll make them wish they threatened me by ejecting that shell, and using the 00 rock salt that follows it. Same thing goes for my country, if I feel threatened, I'm not gonna chicken out and hide in some cave, or basement, and hope it blows over quickly, Me and My M1 garand, and about 150 rounds of ammo are going to do their damndest to stop whatever threat comes my way. till I run out of ammo, or die fighting for my country.

quote:GD, what do you honestly know about american polotics? ( honest question) living in austria quote:Guys seriously. People like GD, go [:-censored] yourself.
You look to the american voters and say "get that guy out" when for all you know it's Hitler's long lost son running against Bush.here's what you two got to realise.
outside of america we still have access to your media and culture, everyone is aware, everyone knows something.
but whats more, we have our own media, litterature and point of views to add to that.
that makes us able to come up with our own conclusions.
and thats why people like you, SP, probably should stfu before calling people like GD a fsck.
cause that was really uncalled for!

First off, Avskum, I didn't say that he knew nothing about american polotics, I asked what he did know, but I'll forgive you for that one, sometimes I mis things when I'm reading also. However, I didnt call GD a "fsck", I was trying to prove a point, in america, the news media is a very "Liberal" leaning institution, or it Favors the Democratic Party, so the news you get, on your television, is firstly biased by american media, and secondly biased by the swiss media, and don't tell me they don't do it, Everyone is biased in some way or another, so you have an opinion,of an opinion, translated into another language, read by somone who doesn't get the whole story.


quote: Both candidates werent a too good choice, but the US citizen definitely picked the worse one (once again). :/
so exactly what does he know about american polotics? living in austria, I'm sure that his information is filtered, and packaged, and re-written, and interrpreted before it even reaches his country. I was asking his take, hence the (honest question) bit...

If Canada or Mexico decided to invade the US (very unlikely, but just to go along with your example) then the US has it's own Army to deal with such a threat. Just like no state has the right to declare war on a nation, neither can you. The best choice may be to just sit and wait. You'd have no chance without an organised unit, and if they caught you with a hot gun then you would more likely be killed. The enemy has just as much, if not more training than you.

As for your assertion that the American media has a liberal bias, this could be true, but so does the rest of the world. You might ask, "Why does the opinion of our fellow nations have to do with the Media having a liberal bias? And why should I care what they think? This is my country!"

The media could seem to have a liberal bias because they have to accept all foreign opinions as possible solutions. If they did not then the United States wouldn't have much of a news force, would we? Equal coverage means everyone has a voice.

Why should we care what other countries think? Because we are all in this messed up world together. Kim Jong-il was probably wondering the same thing when he started building his weapons stockpile, and look at what the world thinks of him now.

This is my country and it's yours too. I'm more than prepared to accept President Bush for another 4 years of duty, and I hope he can get us out of this hole we are in. I agree that people should stop complaining and look towards giving the country a better future.

----

Just to relate to those of you who posted before, I cursed when I heard the results of the polls and grinded my teeth every bit as much as you guys did. I am sure any republican would have done the same if Kerry won.

Goddammit i hate Bush. I wish Kerry would have won the election.

Wow i'm not going to get into this. I am going to post this site lunerfox showed me though http://217.160.163.211/globalvote2004/ It shows votes on the election from places other than the US. There was feedback from americans saying that thes People who don't live in the US shouldn't give a [:-censored] who wins the race. Obviously whoever said this is very ignorant considering the US is the most powerful country in the world

Pfft...those people have every right to care about the outcome of these elections. If those opionions/votes mean jack squat is another issue, however.

Edit: W00t...400 posts!

binz take that [:-censored] off. I've said why in another thread but I'll do it again, just for you.

The rest of the world is of the "not bush" mindset. What you people don't seem to freaking get kis Kerry was nearly EXACTLY the same as Bush save for a few issues such as abortion and social security spending. In terms of their international politics they would end up behaving (from this point)nearly exactly the same. Even with Kerry in office we'd still be up to our nuts in Iraq with no way out, we'd still be pissing off the world, and nothing would change. The rest of the world isn't educated on the local issues effecting our votes, so their little "vote" means [:-censored] to the average American. Sorry, but it's the truth. It's not your election it's ours.

On a related note Bush won the popular vote this time. He won because Kerry looked like a pussy next to him, and we're stuck with Bush until 2008. The rest of the world is just going to have to deal with it, just like we do.

n00bile, this is funny coming from me, but make your posts short and to the point. No one is going to read that essay you posted up above.

thank God

LOL, people from USA do not know what communism is. By what you said you are calling Germany, Canada and England communists.

Palloco, ARe those the words I wrote? do you ANYWHERE see in that 6 page rant me calling germany, canada, or england commies? NO I did not. I didn't put any "hidden meanings" anywhere in that. I know well what communism is, I've studied Marxism, Leninism, and Maoism quite a bit, They arent true socalist nations, more a representative socal system.

SP and everyoe else who read my rantings... sorry, I did get kinda worked up there. but it all has a good point (imo)

John Kerry would be considered conservative in many countries, so you might as well be calling those countries communist if you say Kerry is headed that direction.

*cough* cheated *cough*

The rest of the world is of the "not bush" mindset because we are in Iraq and therefore dislike the person who put us there

my best friend is Iraq... hes on the front lines to...

BUSH WON!! FOUR MORE YEARS!

Most of you guys are very young, so you just repeat stuff that your parents told you, and your parents are (obviously) not very intelligent. Others (like Social Poison) are relatively old, but they still need to pull their heads out of their asses.

Bush won, thank god. Kerry is nothing but talk. Democrats are NOTHING but talk. They jack up the taxes, they give out money as Welfare, or supposedly "free" medical care. Democtrats are building socialism, and socialism does not work.
Many of you go, "OMG I HATE BUSH SO MUCH WTF LOL!!!111". When I ask, why do you hate Bush? The answer is: "Oh I dont know LOL, IRAQ??? LOL wtf, Bush is IDIOT LOL!!"
Bush did not ruin the economy. Economy went into SLIGHT depression at the end of Clinton's administration, because of the collapse of .com companies. Then combined with September 11, economy went down some more. None of which is Bush's fault. War in Iraq is the right thing, we are fighting for freedom of a nation. Those who say it is wrong, need to reconsider their values. Soon there will be a great and free Iraq.

Kerry like Clinton and like all the democrats is full of BS. They want to impose taxes on the rich to help the poor. They take away from the rich to help the poor. I heard something like that before, and it was called COMMUNISM. Thank god that common sense won.

USA has once again shown that they do not give a crap about what Europe thinks of them. Europe will ONLY support USA when there are Soviet tanks on the streets of Berlin. Everybody forgot that just 15 years ago USA was the only reason why Soviets did not overrun Europe. The only time Europe will EVER support USA, is when they are in trouble. Even when Clinton was at the helm, once he tried to do something in Serbia, the whole Europe ganged up on him.

USA is still the greatest country and the most powerful nation. We are the beacon of freedom. We stand alone once again to defeat the Islamic-terrorist threat. Our president is not some half-assed phony, but a decisive man who has shown his commitment to the people.

Anybody who voted for Kerry because they "hate Bush" is an idiot. You too Social Poison. Because those people cant ever explain to me why the hate Bush. Except because he "ruined the economy" or "IRaq LOL", and I talked about those issues already.

Thank you, and God Bless America.

bleh Bush is a [IMAGE]ing asshole
that's my oppinion do I have to explain why?

Aren't you the smart one? Trying to insult most the forum and say "God Bless America" in the same reading.

I'm more insulted that Americans could be so cold and dimwitted, and that I live among them.

People need to use the proper meaning of communism, as well as when it will and will not happen.

blackdevil0742, you can't explain why. You just say things you have no idea what they mean.

You just said "LOL Bush is an ASSHOLE LOL WTF!!!"

if you don't EXPLAIN what you say, then dont bother SAYING IT. All you liberals morons do, is say some useless [:-censored], and never EXPLAIN IT. You dont HAVE to explain it, because you CANT explain why Bush is an "asshole", because you have none of your own ideas. ALl your opinions are from the liberal media, that bashes USA every chance they get. You don't think for yourself, you just blurp something out. And that's the LIBERAL WAY!

I want one single liberal on this forum explain WHY they hate bush.

Things like:
-- Iraq LOL look at IRAQ LOL WTF
or
-- Bush [IMAGE]ed the economy man LOL
are NOT reasons.

I want some REAL reasoning. I want to see your thought process, because so far, it is just pointless Bush-bashing.

Elephant Hunter, here is an idea for you - move to Canada, or ... shut your mouth?

Have you noticed that only conservatives so far give clear explanations to their positions? I want ONE liberal on this forum, to start using his HEAD. And then come out and say something and BACK IT UP.

lol...a moderator that doesn't know how to use the edit button ;)
People on both sides of the issue can give plenty of reasons for why Bush or Kerry may be bad...you assume too much BMF. Looking at a portion of these forums and making blanket statements. Your so called "liberals" can give you very well spoken arguements against Bush; try listening to some NPR or other associated media and stop argueing with teenagers.

I am not "arguing" with anybody. Anything you say, I have heard it before. I just want the people who visit this board to use their brain once in a while. Nobody gave me a "well spoken" anti-Bush argument, all comments come down to "Bush is an idiot", no explanation.

And I know how to use an Edit button, sometimes I choose not to.


EDIT I have read this thread again, I am yet to read a response of a Kerry supporter that carefully explains his position

Bush is not moral. For BMF I shall state my reasoning.


First off he is against Stem Cell research, saying it is "destroying life to save life". Really? Well lets look at iraq, thousands of innocent die there and why to "save" more life. I guess Bush is a flip flopper like Kerry. Why cant he make up his mind!?

quote:USA is still the greatest country and the most powerful nation. We are the beacon of freedom. We stand alone once again to defeat the Islamic-terrorist threat.

Seriously, I know you were born in Russia I believe, but have you ever been anywhere else in the world? How old were you when you left Russia? Personally I dislike the whole "America is the greatest country in the world". Especially when you get less then half the enjoyment of life then Italy, Germany, Britain, Ireland, Prague, and more. Atleast they have a NICE CULTURE. America culture is too fast, too emphasized on "success" and money.

quote:Elephant Hunter, here is an idea for you - move to Canada, or ... shut your mouth?

Edit : Okay.

Oh c'mon elephant, do you really believe your post is worth to answer?

LOL dude, it is the second time you erase a big post. At least it is good to know you can change of mind, but I suggest you to first tcarefully think what to say and then write it, and not waste so many time.

Well, he asked me to stop talking about it... so I did. It makes sense to answer.

There is absolutely no direct link between the ideas of Kerry today and the communism ideology.

Calling Kerry a communist is complete nonsense. Declaring things like this only gives us a view on your limited world view, on your limited knowledge of global politics, history, etc.

Pulp, what's limited, obviously, is your understanding of communistic ideals, The only real difference, between himself, and oh, Lenin, is that Lenin had the balls to take the hell over, kerry want's people to elect him, because he's such an egomaniac. I've seen kerry give speaches, "me, me, me...bush bad, I have a plan" really about sums up two hours of watching him speak. what don't you get between kerry and commies, he's a red diaper doper baby if I ever understood one. My world view is in no way limited, nor is my understanding of the american polotical system. Global polotics,I admit, I'm not as educated as I'd like to be, but since I live in america, and will most likely live here for the rest of this life, I don't feel an overwhelming need to learn how Japanese government works, from what I've seen on television, it's a pretty violent way to get somthing done.

another sign that americans are stupid -> bush suxx0rs

So, Noobile, if I'm right, you claim that Kerry found his ideas, his ideology in Marxism-Leninism.

"According to Lenin, the first step of the long-term process of developing a communist society is a revolutionary seizure of political power; in Marxist terms, the domination of the bourgeoisie is to be replaced by the domination of the working class. In Marxist literature this political stage is called the "dictatorship of the proletariat". Lenin argued that the revolution would occur first in less developed nations, and would require a "vanguard of the proletariat" composed of a relatively small, tightly organized communist party of de-classed intellectuals and workers. Marx had theorized, however, that revolution would first occur in the heavily industrialised countries of the West, making no mention of a communist party or a vanguard."

Tell me, where is the link with Kerry ?

"A similar, libertarian vision of a communist society is promoted by anarcho-communism. It is like Marxian communism in that it is characterised by a gift economy and the abolition of wage slavery and money, but disagrees with Marx that a proletarian dictatorship of the Paris Commune variety would be needed immediately after the overthrow of the bourgeoisie. Instead, the libertarians and anarcho-communists argue that "full" socialism, or communism (also known as anarchy), will be possible and that any statist solutions would revert society to another form of hierarchy similar or identical to capitalism."

Kerry as an anarchist ? Did we miss something ?

If Kerry is a communist (marxist-leninist) than the Democrats must be a Communist partie.

"Parties that describe themselves as communist have a goal of eventually realizing and being part of a global communist society. Therefore, the adjective communist applies to three things: individuals who are members of communist parties or who desire a communist society in the future, political parties which have a goal of reaching communism, and a theoretical future society where there is no government, only communism."

To end, this.


"Leninism versus Democratic Socialism.

According to Marx, the laws of class struggle would drive capitalism to evolve into socialism and then, eventually, to communism. However, in the early twentieth century, it seemed that capitalist society was as strong as ever, and the revolution that Marx predicted was nowhere yet to be found. As to how this fact should be interpreted led to a split among Marx's followers.

Some eventually concluded that a socialist society could be created without revolution and could be brought about through the process of reforming existing state institutions. This ideology became known as democratic socialism (not to be confused with social democracy) and formed the basis on which a number of political parties were founded, including the Social Democratic Party of Germany and the British Labour Party.

According to Lenin, however, Marx underestimated the power of capitalist imperialism and therefore a revolutionary seizure of the political power on behalf of the proletariat was needed to overthrow the capitalist system, so as to advance humanity towards communism.

The actual difference is the revolutionary character of the process. Communists consider revolution as a necessary step, while reformist socialists do not. These two currents of Marxism distinguished their respective methodologies after the second worker's international. During the rest of the 20th century, according to communist critics, reformist socialists did little beyond trying to mitigate the socially harmful effects of capitalism without making any real progress towards a classless society. On the other hand, according to reformists, the dictatorship of the proletariat was nothing else than dictatorship under the control of a communist party and remains in a state of near totalitarian dictatorship, or has transitioned into some form of parlimentary democracy or capitalism."

If Kerry is Lenin, then us democrats get to say Bush is Hitler.

quote:Originally posted by SigHunteranother sign that americans are stupid -> bush suxx0rs


Another sign that some Germans are ignorant.

Famine I moved to USA from Russia when I was almost 17. Before that I spent 6 months of my life in the Chech Republic. I had lived in USA for more than 4 years now. So yes, I know what is going on outside USA.
About stem cell research - good point. I dont know what to say, I dont really have a position on the issue. Bush is against stem cell research, but I dont think he is going to do anything about it. It is all up to the states. Like in Cali they allow stem cell research now, and I doubt Bush will prohibit that.
Again, I believe that the war in Iraq is ultimately the right thing to do. I doubt I can make you agree with me on this, unless you want to talk about it. You have my MSN.

Pulp your post was completely pointless. You made no argument. Instead you posted a summary of communistic ideology. Kerry is not a communist. But some of his ideas scare me. Think about it, the way he promised the tax cuts.
Kerry said that he will tax the rich more, and give money to working class. Kerry would take away from the rich and give to the poor. I have heard that story before, it is called communism. I am not saying he is communistic though, he is just a whore for votes. And a man of no principles.

were on the way to a revolution, and its going to be similar to communism, but modified to work. i have my own idealology that we should do away with all Arabic countries refusing to conform to the ways of the modern world. i'd like to see religion (apart from those which are more or less philosophic ways to live life such as buddhism) wiped from the face of the earth, most notably judaism, christianity, and Islam. religion is the problem, and if you ask me, the reason for almost all conflicts somehow or another.

I post a summary of the communist ideology to prove an ideology is more than a few thoughts.

As far as i can see here most of the ppl don't get the slightest idea what communism is.

quote:"Kerry said that he will tax the rich more, and give money to working class. Kerry would take away from the rich and give to the poor. I have heard that story before, it is called communism."


Do you Americans have ever heard of SOCIALISM, lol.

THERE IS MORE THAN COMMUNISM AND CAPITALISM !!!

Congratulations John Q. Obvious.

quote: i'd like to see religion (apart from those which are more or less philosophic ways to live life such as buddhism) wiped from the face of the earth, most notably judaism, christianity, and Islam. religion is the problem, and if you ask me, the reason for almost all conflicts somehow or another.


This is not the religions fault it is man's. Maybe we should tone down the effects of religion on society as a whole. Make it more "intimate" so to say instead of whiping them out.

quote:blackdevil0742, you can't explain why. You just say things you have no idea what they mean.

You just said "LOL Bush is an ASSHOLE LOL WTF!!!"

I ment do I have to explain to you why I think that he is a [IMAGE]ing asshole. isn't it obvous why I think like I do

You just proved my point. You cannot explain why Bush is an "asshole" because your statement is completely meaningless. You just blurt things out, and you do not back them up. That's how most liberal politicians work.

blackdevil0742, if you please, if you start running you gums, take your time to explain what you mean. Because it is not "obvious". I doubt you will give any explanation, because I doubt that you have any. Once again you are just blindly copying the liberal media in your country or the opinions of your parents.

Cheers

:O .. BMF, you're.. YOU'RE BACK ..

I am not really sure who I would have voted but I think kerry mainly because I dislike confrontations(ie:war) =P

quote:Originally posted by BMFYou just proved my point. You cannot explain why Bush is an "asshole" because your statement is completely meaningless. You just blurt things out, and you do not back them up. That's how most liberal politicians work.

blackdevil0742, if you please, if you start running you gums, take your time to explain what you mean. Because it is not "obvious". I doubt you will give any explanation, because I doubt that you have any. Once again you are just blindly copying the liberal media in your country or the opinions of your parents.

Cheers


lol...I actually agree. People need to learn the proper value of a valid arguement...as well as the fact that hollow statements don't mean squat. There are reasons I don't like Bush (i.e. his environmental policies, publications about the "Bush dynasty" from the father to the son..etc..). I don't really want to go into Bush bashing, however...what's done is done, no use for complaining now. Too many people on here simply making statements and not offering enough evidence to back those statements up..a little course in logic and critical thinking would go along way around here.

k k k if I must...I hate him because he screwed up the 9/11 , that he attacked Afganistan and Iraq and blamed them for the big mistake he made 9/11. Calling them terrorists, going against UN and the other countries in the world by attacking Iraq.

...

Afghanistan was being run by terrorists (the Taliban) housing terrorists (Al Qaeda, Jaish-e Muslimeen, etc.). Iraq was being run by a dictator (Saddam Hussein). It's not like anyone benefited from them being in power, but themselves. Now Afghanis and Iraqis will (eventually) have a government appointed by the people of their own countries, like many of the countries we live in today, and not taken over by force.

And what mistake did he make about 9/11? It's not like he contacted terrorists and asked them to bomb the towers as a publicity stunt... Bin Laden tried numerous times to blow up those towers years before Bush Junior was put into power.

quote:Afghanistan was being run by terrorists (the Taliban) housing terrorists (Al Qaeda, Jaish-e Muslimeen, etc.). Iraq was being run by a dictator (Saddam Hussein).

Maybe you don't know, but in 80's american government supported Talibans (when Talibans were against USRR). Yestarday good, now bad? :D
United States also supported Iraq and dictator Saddam Hussein in its fight against Iran. Before dictator good, now verrry bad :D

Why won't USA try with Kim Jong Il, his 100 000 000 hungry soldiers and a few A-BOMBs? What About Cuba, it has a dictator and it's not as strong as Noth Korea, maybe them? Oh... I forgot. No oil in there.

Things aren't that simple, Frogboy.

quote:Originally posted by AquariusMaybe you don't know, but in 80's american government supported Talibans (when Talibans were against USRR). Yestarday good, now bad? :D
United States also supported Iraq and dictator Saddam Hussein in its fight against Iran. Before dictator good, now verrry bad :D


Sure the president(s) during the 80s supported the Taliban and Saddam Hussein, but how do we know that GWB did too?

quote:
Why won't USA try with Kim Jong Il, his 100 000 000 hungry soldiers and a few A-BOMBs? What About Cuba, it has a dictator and it's not as strong as Noth Korea, maybe them? Oh... I forgot. No oil in there.

Economical reasons, it might not be economically possible to launch an attack on another country. Besides, neither North Korea or Cuba are believed to have had a link to Al Qaeda, unlike Iraq or Afghanistan, which is the whole point of his "War on Terrorism" - Bush still believes Iraq and Afghanistan were linked to Al Qaeda in some way.

Either way, as stated before, Kerry would have still kept people in Iraq, there wouldn't have been any difference in Iraq because of who America voted for.

quote:Originally posted by blackdevil0742k k k if I must...I hate him because he screwed up the 9/11 , that he attacked Afganistan and Iraq and blamed them for the big mistake he made 9/11. Calling them terrorists, going against UN and the other countries in the world by attacking Iraq.

...

blackdevil0742, Osama bin Laden was presented to the Clinton administration on a plate. However they refused to take him in. While Clinton was in power for 8 years, terrorists had been training all over the world. Bush had barely gotten into office when the 9/11 happen. For further information refer to Frogboy's post.
And also you called Bush an "asshole", and the things you said about him qualify him as a "bad leader". I am still waiting for an explanation from you why George Bush is an "asshole". A good explanation is: Bush cursed you out, Bush cut you off in traffic, Bush punched you in the throat, etc. Why DID you call GEORGE BUSH an ASSHOLE? I NEED SOME REASONS HERE.

quote:Originally posted by Aquariusquote:Afghanistan was being run by terrorists (the Taliban) housing terrorists (Al Qaeda, Jaish-e Muslimeen, etc.). Iraq was being run by a dictator (Saddam Hussein).

Maybe you don't know, but in 80's american government supported Talibans (when Talibans were against USRR). Yestarday good, now bad? :D
United States also supported Iraq and dictator Saddam Hussein in its fight against Iran. Before dictator good, now verrry bad :D

Why won't USA try with Kim Jong Il, his 100 000 000 hungry soldiers and a few A-BOMBs? What About Cuba, it has a dictator and it's not as strong as Noth Korea, maybe them? Oh... I forgot. No oil in there.


Yes, Aquarius, I know that. US Administration supported Bin Laden. Yes, they were friends with Saddam. And you know why they did that Aquarius? DO YOU KNOW WHY? Well it just so happened that at the time US were involved in this thing called Cold War. They were trying their best to stop the Soviet Union from spreading communist filth all over the world. And you know what else Aquarius? If it was not for the USA, you would be still under the Soviet rule.

USA were involved with Iraq/Aphghanistan in the 80's because they were doing everything to stop the Soviets. Yes, Meandor and Aquarius. If there was not USA, there would be tanks of the streets of your towns RIGHT NOW. And I am not even joking.

The time will come and we will rush across the 38th parallel and reunite North and South Korea. And we will let the South Koreans help their brothers from the North to set up a decent government. And there will be one Korea under the sun, united and strong. And you will not be there at that moment Aquarius, because all you can think of, are the ways to spill dirt on USA.

No reason to invade Cuba, Castro is going to die sooner or later. Then things will figure out by themselves. Cubans eat dirt right now, they live is horrible conditions. USA will build resorts there and casinos, and Cubans will make millions and millions because of that. But apparently you like them better right now, living in poverty.

Aquarius, you are a spineless and gutless individual. Your sole purpose is to slander the United States government, when WE saved your country from another 20 years under Soviet control.

What?? Its the truth!

BMF, the soviet union collapsed into itself. it imploded. things werent working out. they didnt handle their DOMESTIC ISSUES very well.

YEY GO BUSH!
NOW WE HAVE A FUNNY PRESIDENTIAL QUOTE EVERY DAY!!

Not having to wait for years for a kickass quote
(the bush quote's make less sense, but who cares?! they're funny!)

YAY!

quote:Originally posted by BMFThe time will come and we will rush across the 38th parallel and reunite North and South Korea. And we will let the South Koreans help their brothers from the North to set up a decent government. And there will be one Korea under the sun, united and strong.

And many, many years later every country will be democratic. And everyone will be happy.
Unfortunatelly global happiness is not possible.

quote:Aquarius, you are a spineless and gutless individual. Your sole purpose is to slander the United States government

Man, you really need a psychiatric treatment. I only showed that nothing is perfectly black or white on the world.

BMF, I think you should stop looking back at the past

"But we helped you in WW2, because of us there are no tanks in your streets RIGHT NOW!!"

Yes, the US did help many European countries in the past, but that's got nothing to do with the government we have right now. If people don't like the present government, that doesn't mean they don't like America, or that they don't appreciate the fact that past American governments helped them when they were in need. The fact of that matter is that you people are arguing about the current government, BMF, and what they do now, which has nothing to do with what America did in the past.

I am not going to get into this argument, because I already laid down my points in our last discussion, I just thought I might add this little note.

Aquarius your last post contained no valid points, except a random insult towards me. I assume that do not have any more facts/arguments to support your position.

Hitman, when you say "past" do you mean the conflict in Serbia, where the USA brought down a mass-murderer Milosevic? By the way England or Poland or UN did not move a finger. Oh yes, a distant past that is. Over six years go!! That's like before Christ.
I don't want to go into the "ancient history" like 1991, when Soviet Union finally collapsed under the economic pressure imposed by the USA.

Hitman you have no respect for the past, and you have a very limited understanding of Democratic vs. Republican philosophy. You have a little understanding of Bush's position on very many issues. Yes, I heard all your arguments. They all boil down to "Bush lied about weapons of mass destruction, we should not have invaded Iraq, we should have left that ruthless dictator rule the country." For some reason you forget the fact that he killed over 1,200,000 people over the course of 25 years.
For all I know the CIA made a mistake, not GW Bush. And now the CIA director is out of the job. And CIA will be desbanded as an organization by the end of Bush's second term.
Hitman I understand your "hate" for George Bush. You are young, and as a young person you want everybody in the world to be in "peace". Unfortunately your thought process does not go much further. You do not realize that sometimes freedom does not come for free. And sometimes, yes SOMETIMES, you have to FIGHT FOR PEACE.

The USA is alone again. This time we are not facing fascism or communism, we are facing radical Islam. As always our friends from yesterday left us alone. But it is not the first time, and we will be fine. Aquarius, just let us know next time you need your country saved from another foreign menace.

Stop being a smartass BMF. You know exactly what I mean.

Edit: ..and no, I'm not some 'World peace' hippy. I know in some cases war is nessesary, but in this case it wasn't.

What the [IMAGE] sakes!!!
i mean COME ON its all his fault that the war with iraq is happening...hes is soo stupid kerry isnt that good himself but u guys would be alot better with him...trust me..

Can you tell by the way he types that he's a preteen?

There are most likely many more reasons to why the 'majority' of the population did not want Bush in office, besides the f*cking war! Why do you people always have to make USA's interactions with other countries the main point? What about whatever happened inside the country? I know jack [:-censored], but there has to be some other reason besides our meddling with the Middle East.

Listen to Kazuki, he is a Colonel. By the way the "majority" wanted Bush for office. Because the "majority" still has heads on their shoulders.

AnzX Vi3t, thank you for proving my point. By the way I don't trust you, idiot. But your comment was priceless..
quote:Originally posted by AnzX Vi3thes a stupid money for [IMAGE] sakes!!!

Whatever that means, it was touching....

Bush effects the world in a much more direct way then many other political leaders across the globe. Right now, I view america as a global country. ANYTHING that happens there in some way effects everyone in the world.

If we keep being the world police, soon the world must then VOTE for our president.

That's about the stupidest thing I heard today. Famine, you are a smart kid, but you need to stop let the liberal schmucks poison your brain. Every country in the world is an influence to the world. Why don't we elect a president in Japan, because they sell us cars. And Japanese can elect the President of Venezuela, because Venezuela supplies them with oil. I don't think so.

Remember I said that you were smart for your age? Forget it

No, actually Famine has a point. What happens in America, in many cases, does affect the rest of the world. As the saying goes 'When America sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold'.

I mean, just think of the Wall Street Crash in 1929, although quite a while ago, it's still a perfect example of Famine's point.

Hmmm.. Yeah I see your point, you guys are absolutely right. Hey Hitman, you can elect my president, all you need to do is give 25% of your income in taxes to the United States government. That's how much I pay to vote for my president.

No?? Oh, I didnt think so. So how about a nice big cup of shut the [IMAGE] up instead?

Listen asshole, I don't see why you always have to get so [IMAGE]ing aggressive in every discussion, thus turning it into a argument. Whenever you're on the losing end, you always result to petty insults and smartass comments. You're just like all the other morons on this board.

Plus, notice the fact that I didn't agree on Famines point about the whole world voting for America's president, so stop hassling me like I did.quote:So how about a nice big cup of shut the [IMAGE] up insteadOh noes, did you come up with that insult all by yourself? Lame.

quote:Originally posted by BMF

Hitman you have no respect for the past, and you have a very limited understanding of Democratic vs. Republican philosophy.


Since nobody even bothered to clear that up while alot of the discussion is linked to the "philosophy of Republicans vs. Democrats", I'll try to do my best.

This started back when we had Jeffereson's govermental ideologies pitted against Hamilton's: Hamilton believed in big buisness; supporting large investments in big corporations; giving them tax cuts; implementing wide-spread industrialization and modernization of America; having a strong, orderly federal goverment; a good relationship with Britain (Back at the Napoleonic wars, Hamilton said that the US should side mainly with England, he believed it was the stronger faction that would endure Napoleon, and that the US had moral allegiance to that country since it was the US' "mother country"); having a tariff system (which would later be known as the American System) to strengthen the economy; focusing on factory industry and trade first, and farming/ranching second; necessary media censorship or time-of-crisis breaking some laws in the Constitution for a temporary time to bring about a greater, long-term good; elastic laws system which pretty much allowed the goverment to do what was necessary and proper for the country; a central federal bank; and a powerful army and navy. The supporters of Hamilton's theory, dubbed Hamiltonians, or Federalists, will later become what are now Republicans.

Jefferson believed in small, individual buisness; he believed the main focus of the goverment should be to further the buisness of common people rather than big buisness; he believed in slow, steady modernization and industrialization; taxing the rich more (since they can pay more) and the middle class less; having a loose, not-so-powerful goverment that would just be there to represent the US in total, but real power will be in state goverments; supporting France (the arguement was that since France helped us win the War of Independence, we should repay the debt and help them against their enemies, which were mainly Russia and Britain at the time); strict obedience to the constitution, almost never shrink away from its laws and values; totally open media and clear strict laws, not giving the goverment power to do what it wants most of the time, thus limiting corruption (as he put it); state banks; medium-power army and navy just enough to protect the US from its adversaries, nothing more, nothing less. The followers in Jeffereson's points of view were dubbed Jefferesonians, or States Rights men, later to be called Democrats.

If you ask me, this whole philosophy in today's terms is void, since most of the US is accustomed to Republican style thinking, and Democrats now dont really act as democrats anymore, they just oppose anything the other side does, which is retarded. There is no more diversity, so this whole bull[:-censored] that says the election actually means something or is going to change anything is just crap. Little would have changed if Kerry would have been elected. That's just me, though, I tried to be unbiased in my "clear up" above.

Oh, and about stuff happening in the country: most of the issues are all morality. I cant believe people are so goddamned idiotic to meddle in every other person's life and act like if everyone lives in their country its like they live in their house. I'm one of those people who say live and let live to all the moral arguements they have such a big fuss about in here. I dont care if I thought abortion was right or wrong, really, its all about the person that does it. My opinion or anyone else's, in this case should not matter to anyone. If someone thinks its wrong, then they can go ahead and not do it, if someone is fine with it, then theres practically no problem. But I dont believe in inflicting my *personal* moral views on other people and forcing them to live in a way that would satisfy me. Does that sound like Land of the Free, Home of the Brave to you? Not to me. Same issue with gay marriage, and Stem-cell research. People fighting and bickering ceaselessly over matters of opinion like little children remind me of the reason I'm so elitist when I consider the general public. Bleh :P

Hitman I will stop being aggressive when you stop acting like a little child. Oh and by the way, you insulted me first. Look at your signature. Do you actually think I will be nice to you, when you and your buddies call me names just because I voted for Bush? By the way, I did not vote for Bush, but I sure as hell did not vote for Kerry. Between Bush and Kerry I am very happy that Bush won the election.

Democrats vs Republicans in short..
Republicans want a small government, that does not impose too many taxes. Republicans want an environment where people could be free to do their business, without worrying about excessive taxes. Republicans want everybody to be reponsible for themselves.
Democrats want to "help the people". They want to take away MY money from MY check, and give it away to people who do not work. They want to take away MY money from MY check, and give it away to people who cannot afford health insurance. They want to take MY money from MY check, and give it away to people who cannot afford an education. I've seen it all before, it's called socialism.

Socialism = welfare = theft. My party is Libertarian, but I am sure as hell happy that the Republicans won. Enough of Clinton bull[:-censored]. USA is not about helping the poor who refuse to work. USA is about taking responsibility for your actions. I refuse to pay for somebody who refuses to work. And don't tell me a sad story about some guy in a small town who "just can't make it". You know what? This is not my problem. My parents moved from another country, and we started paying taxes from day one. We never required ANY help from this government. If there are some assholes in small towns who can't find jobs. Well that's too bad. Move to a big city.

Hitman, I will vote for whoever you tell me on the next election. I'll send you the forms by mail, so you can pay my taxes for four years. After that, I swear to God, I'll vote for whoever you tell me. Deal?!

quote:That's about the stupidest thing I heard today. Famine, you are a smart kid, but you need to stop let the liberal schmucks poison your brain. Every country in the world is an influence to the world. Why don't we elect a president in Japan, because they sell us cars. And Japanese can elect the President of Venezuela, because Venezuela supplies them with oil. I don't think so.

Listen BMF, USA has a MUCH MORE direct effect over the world then any other country. We ARE a super power. We should take responsibility and listen to the other countrie's ideas at least. For we are doing much more then making america "safer".


quote: USA is about taking responsibility for your actions.

Really? When will bush take responsibility for his actions? Even in the debate question "What are 3 mistakes you made?" He didn't even answer it. His response was "In many wars, moves made maybe be a mistake when other tacticians review it". Bush's new campaign slogan should be "Pass the buck". When we didn't find WMD's he still bull[:-censored]ted his way out of it. He never takes blame for anything, becuase he is a BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN! He can do no wrong. The way Karl Rove used religion in this election was disgusting. You call democrats unmoral. "Gays ruin the sanctity of marriage". Well Rove ruins the sanctity of christianity in its whole.

quote:Republicans want a small government, that does not impose too many taxes. Republicans want an environment where people could be free to do their business, without worrying about excessive taxes. Republicans want everybody to be reponsible for themselves.
Democrats want to "help the people". They want to take away MY money from MY check, and give it away to people who do not work. They want to take away MY money from MY check, and give it away to people who cannot afford health insurance. They want to take MY money from MY check, and give it away to people who cannot afford an education. I've seen it all before, it's called socialism.

Before you state that I am stupid, listen to this rhetoric. You sound like a campaign ad for bush. I want to hear a "I am George Bush and I support this message". Maybe you should consider your views on politics too before you question others.

To sum up BMFs postings:

Everybody who would not have voted for Bush is US-hating, stupid preteen who has no respect for the past. o.O

@Melba: what about having a daily BMF quote?

"Soon there will be a great and free Iraq."
Omg, BMF, you made my day.

PS: BMF, There are people who dont have a job, no education and no health insurance, and its not their own fault...

quote:Originally posted by BMFHitman I will stop being aggressive when you stop acting like a little child. Oh and by the way, you insulted me first. Look at your signature. Do you actually think I will be nice to you, when you and your buddies call me names just because I voted for Bush? By the way, I did not vote for Bush, but I sure as hell did not vote for Kerry. Between Bush and Kerry I am very happy that Bush won the election.Seeing as you didn't vote for Bush, how am I insulting you? Also, acting like a little child? What the hell are you talking about?quote:Hitman, I will vote for whoever you tell me on the next election. I'll send you the forms by mail, so you can pay my taxes for four years. After that, I swear to God, I'll vote for whoever you tell me. Deal?!
I have a American passport. [IMAGE] paying your taxes to swing your vote, I'll vote for whomever I want myself. Thank you.

quote:Originally posted by grand_diablo
PS: BMF, There are people who dont have a job, no education and no health insurance, and its not their own fault...

Who's fault is it, MINE??? If you don't have a job or education, and you work at McDonald's, well that's too bad. But don't reach your hand in my pocket.
Grand Diablo, I bet that you don't hold a job, and you live off of your parents money.
Sure there are maybe handicapped people. I am willing to pay for them.. Down syndrome, autism, whatever, I can pay. Mmmm... Single mothers? I didn't get them pregnant. Why should I pay for welfare. Who else? Alcoholics, crack whores? I ain't paying for them either.
Old people who did not save enough through their lives? That's NOT MY FAULT. Be smart and save money.
Grand Diablo, when you make a statement support it with facts, so I don't have to go guessing who the hell do you mean, all right? One thing I do in my posts, is to try and justify everything I say.

Famine what I said is true, man! I don't understand why you keep arguing with me!! You may not agree with me on the issue of war. But Democrats DO want to take away money from the rich, and give it to the poor. Thats what John Kerry said in his compaign. And I don't think so.

Hitman how the hell do you have an american passport??? Dude, you should come and visit

EDIT I will make sweet man-love to you

BMF, you make it seem like Bush is all righteous and kerry is a sniveling fool. That is why I hate campaign ads, for any side.

Nothing can change my opinion about American goverment.

I'll just ask this. how can you let your own goverment use you like that? Do you realy belive there's anything good in this war or any other war fought by American soldiers?

Beliveing in ANY war is a crime!

quote:Originally posted by BMFquote:Originally posted by grand_diablo
PS: BMF, There are people who dont have a job, no education and no health insurance, and its not their own fault...

Who's fault is it, MINE??? If you don't have a job or education, and you work at McDonald's, well that's too bad. But don't reach your hand in my pocket.
...
Sure there are maybe handicapped people. I am willing to pay for them.. Down syndrome, autism, whatever, I can pay. Mmmm... Single mothers? I didn't get them pregnant. Why should I pay for welfare. Who else? Alcoholics, crack whores? I ain't paying for them either.
Old people who did not save enough through their lives? That's NOT MY FAULT. Be smart and save money.
Grand Diablo, when you make a statement support it with facts, so I don't have to go guessing who the hell do you mean, all right? One thing I do in my posts, is to try and justify everything I say.


Well, I meant people who came into such situations without their own fault, and that are not only physically or mentally handicapped ones. People that grew up in a bad family, or even lost their relatives due to some incidents (As that could be murder, accidents, catastrophes...). Like many people lose their houses every year, when the hurricans hit the US. If people build somewhere, where hurricans are expected, it might be at least partially their fault. But often hurricanes or other catastrophes hit people totally unprepared & unexpected.
Or when a company has to close down due to bad economy, and several people lose their jobs. Its not that jobs grow on trees. Sure its not the fault of those, who have a job and a good live, but why not take a small part to support those poor people until they have found another job. Of course, it should be somehow controled, that they do try to find a job. And if they do, why not support them? Else, show me the job tree...

Let's keep this very short.

BMF, if you had any responsibility in that body of you, if you had any proud for your nation, you'd stay in Russia. You're migrated to the US, and now you're saying things like :

quote:quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by grand_diablo

PS: BMF, There are people who dont have a job, no education and no health insurance, and its not their own fault...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Who's fault is it, MINE??? If you don't have a job or education, and you work at McDonald's, well that's too bad. But don't reach your hand in my pocket.
Grand Diablo, I bet that you don't hold a job, and you live off of your parents money.
Sure there are maybe handicapped people. I am willing to pay for them.. Down syndrome, autism, whatever, I can pay. Mmmm... Single mothers? I didn't get them pregnant. Why should I pay for welfare. Who else? Alcoholics, crack whores? I ain't paying for them either.
Old people who did not save enough through their lives? That's NOT MY FAULT. Be smart and save money.
Grand Diablo, when you make a statement support it with facts, so I don't have to go guessing who the hell do you mean, all right? One thing I do in my posts, is to try and justify everything I say.


My answer to this ?

I hope they'll send you back to Russia, so you you'll find at least any humanity back in that presumptuous body of you.

Calling socialism a theft is complete nonsense. Dunno if you had any education at all, if you ever read a book or a paper, but you're the most ignorant fool on this board, that's for sure.

I hope your family in Russia never, EVER, will read the crap you're writing here.

GO back to the place where you belong, try the find a job, support your family, try to get politically involved over there, but don't be a coward as you are now, don't preach the libertanian theory if you're just an egoist prick who lives in a country he only 'served' for four years. Jesus, you are dumb.


Out of my eyes !

quote:Originally posted by BMF
Democrats vs Republicans in short..
Republicans want a small government, that does not impose too many taxes. Republicans want an environment where people could be free to do their business, without worrying about excessive taxes. Republicans want everybody to be reponsible for themselves.
Democrats want to "help the people". They want to take away MY money from MY check, and give it away to people who do not work. They want to take away MY money from MY check, and give it away to people who cannot afford health insurance. They want to take MY money from MY check, and give it away to people who cannot afford an education. I've seen it all before, it's called socialism.

Socialism = welfare = theft. My party is Libertarian, but I am sure as hell happy that the Republicans won. Enough of Clinton bull[:-censored]. USA is not about helping the poor who refuse to work. USA is about taking responsibility for your actions. I refuse to pay for somebody who refuses to work. And don't tell me a sad story about some guy in a small town who "just can't make it". You know what? This is not my problem. My parents moved from another country, and we started paying taxes from day one. We never required ANY help from this government. If there are some assholes in small towns who can't find jobs. Well that's too bad. Move to a big city.


Dont we already do that? The income tax takes about 30% of what you make and gives it to the goverment. It's the goverment's choice what to do with the taxes, but its not like if the democrats win we're going to have taxes all of a sudden, we already do. Democrats are saying they will direct more money to those who need it, like poor people, and people with no life insurance (never heard a worse lie than that, seriously), and that's their main official arguement. Under a republican administration, we still pay taxes on almost everything we by, and our income, its just that the goverment has other plans on what to do with the money. So now they are still taking YOUR money from YOUR check and putting it in other places that they didnt really bother discussing. Most of the taxes propably end up in the military, and with today's wars and whatnot, I dont really know how many people would object to that. So for you, BMF, nothing would practically change. As for the military needing money like its actually weak, I also believe thats crap. The US could do alot better than it is right now, its just that street warfare is a tricky buisness, unlike many other battlefields.

Grand Diablo, of course we should help people who suffer in the hurricanes and snow storms and stuff like that. I am not saying that we should not. But when somebody loses his job as a steel worker, because the mill is closed, not my problem. He can go to a community college and change his profession. In one year I will graduate as a chemical engineer. And even if I get fired from one job, I will find next one in a snap. It is not my problem that some people go work straight from high school, and then lose their jobs. I don't want to sound cruel or mean, but that's the truth.

Droopy, the good in the Iraqi war is the liberation of the Iraqi people. If you do not understand that, we are on different pages here. And if ANY war is a crime, than maybe USA should not have participated in the COLD WAR. Did you like Soviet tanks on your streets Droopy? When USA fights for your country, its GOOD, when USA fights for Iraq, it is BAD. Please show me the difference between saving your country from USSR back in the 80-90s, and saving Iraq from Saddam.

Pulp, my homeland tried to build socialism, and it did not work. I don't think you ever read my posts anyway, but taking the money from my pocket is theft. Giving my money to some unemployed asshole is theft.
You are a teenager, eating your mom's dinners, and using your mom's DSL. I doubt you ever held a job. I doubt you have ever gived 25% of your paycheck to the government. I was born in the USSR, and my family moved to Russia. None of that is your business, and unless you have done something worthwhile with your life, except playing Soldat, you have no right to judge me.
This is a public forum, you little prick. Isn't it past your bedtime anyway?

TFS, Republicans support lower taxes. End of story. It's all about the money. As for the military? I am enlisting in a year, so it's all good. The more money the better.

I agree with some of BMFs views, but not all...however, calling him ignorant for these beliefs isn't needed. You're the one sounding ignorant Pulp, telling people to "go back to where they belong". Sounds like little more than feeble bigotry.

Dear, dear BMF.

This is an open letter to you.
Why ? Cause you deserve it. Cause you need it. Cause I want you to need it.


Let's start with what I don't know about you.

I don't know who your favorite philosopher is, I don't know how you see the development of a human being,
I don't know you're religious or not, I don't know what your (personal) ethical values are. I don't what your vision
on society is.

Now I'll tell you what you don't know about me.

My values, my philosophy. What I understand as living, as being here.

At first there is the search for the wisdom of life. We are here to prospect, to explore ourselves.
My mind is an instrument, working 24hours a day, collecting information, studying the collective comprehension,
considering several options a day, to gather and to process. That's what important is for me, myself, as an individual.
I'm searching for the meaning of my life, of our lives, of live. What is my role here ?
Is there a collective objective that's worth living for ?

At second there is an attempt to understand the universe as a whole.
Me, with in my hands a bag including all my questions, my doubts, my certainties ; travelling the paths of the philosophers,
the paths of worldleaders, the path of history and the future on earth, just a planet in this universe.

At third there is the exploration of the place of consciousness or will in the universe and the examination of the values of
goodness, truth and beauty. Again, a delicate search with as result a multitude of ideas, of thoughts. Hopefully forming
a theory once, doing an effort to codify the rules of human thought in order to promote rationality and the extension of
clear thinking.

The forth point : An examination of man's moral responsibilities and social obligations. A very important thought.
Is it moral responsible to live my philosophy ? Don't I have social obligations, as serving my nation with concrete deeds ?
Is it moral responsible to drive a luxury car ? Is it moral responsible to refuse any help to the poor ones ? Is it moral
responsible to work the biggest part of your life ?
What is moral responsible, what is social obligated is the result of an excessive amount of thoughts, ideas in the past.
Ideas and thoughts we practised in the last ages, decades, but STILL are disputable, and still will be in the future.


I hope this information clear things out a bit. It's not an opinion, but it's an important reminder when you feel like
insulting me again.
It's too easy to call thoughts and ideas immature, especially when the insults are based on dubious thoughts.
You'd respect the meaning of everyone on this forum, even if the young man is by example 14 and had never worked.

Ok, to business now.

quote:

Pulp, my homeland tried to build socialism, and it did not work. I don't think you ever read my posts anyway, but taking the money from my pocket is theft. Giving my money to some unemployed asshole is theft.
You are a teenager, eating your mom's dinners, and using your mom's DSL. I doubt you ever held a job. I doubt you have ever gived 25% of your paycheck to the government. I was born in the USSR, and my family moved to Russia. None of that is your business, and unless you have done something worthwhile with your life, except playing Soldat, you have no right to judge me.
This is a public forum, you little prick. Isn't it past your bedtime anyway?


First this. The only reason for my past post (Posted - 07 Nov 2004 : 20:02:20) was to face yourself with your thoughts, your
exaggerated arrogance. Playing the man is the weakest thing you can do in a discussion.

Your homeland tried to build Communism, I already told you that comparing socialism with communism is the same as comparing
conservatism with nazism. There is absolutely no valuable clue to call socialism a theft, a dictatorial regime.
(Do you read my posts?).
For the rest of your reply, you're obviously playing the man now.
I'm living alone, paying everything by myself, taking every day my responsibility. I worked for a longtime and taxes in Belgium are very high
( No problem to me, I like to pay taxes. Due the high taxes Belgium got by example the best health insurance in the world. Poor or rich, don't matter
everyone receives the same medical help. Another example, studying is free in Belgium untill your 18. So even poor people can
enjoy the best education.)
I won't react to the other remarks in your reply cause to me, they seems clueless.


I hope you took the time to read this.



Thanks.



(P.S. I know my english isn't that well, please try to understand my intention, my meaning. I wrote this first in a txt and copied it to here, so there are often half sentences...my mistake)

Are you trying to prove to me that you are not dumb? Because first of all, it is not working, and second of all I don't care about you all that much. You don't need to validate yourself to me.

And ehh.. the topic of this thread is Bush's win in the 2004 elections. You post relates to that how?..

Back to Bush, if anyone has seen fahrenheit 9/11 they'll get the true picture. I know it is some propaganda movie , but watch it and try to be objective about the situation....Smoke 'em out!
I've read an article that said:
People vote for the *strongest* leader, not the nicest one- Hitler,Mugabe.. (was Stalin elected??). Thats exactly the downside of democracy, but its the best system known to man.

If anyone even attempts to respond to Boer, I'll smack you.

BMF, I know that some things in Fahrenheit 9-11 are probably shown worse than they are. But there is also a lot of truth in it.

Doesn't George Bush profit from the Iraqui war, the Iraqui oil?
Don't many of his government members profit from that?
Won't many US companies (weapon's and oil industry for example) profit from thiswar?
Don't you find a lot of (ex-)politicians somewhere in a leading role in those companies?
Isn't there only one (or even none, dont remember it 100% exactly) child of those who made the final decision to attack Iraq among the soldiers there?

I don't support what Saddam did, but I dare to say, that the situation now (which is quite similar to the one in Gaza/Israel, with their suicide bombers) is worse than it was under Saddam Hussein. According to what I have read and seen so far, msot of the people could live an "ok" life down there. Quite poor, and not allowed to publicly say something against Saddam. But they didn't have to fear to be killed by some muslim extremist/US soldier mistaking you for some muslim extremist/...

That the US troops are fighting for the Iraqui people is the same lie, as the one with the weps of mass-destruction that have never been found. Don't believe everything George Bush and the Republicans tell you. Don't believe in everything the Democrats say either. Try to keep an objective view on everything, because like someone already wrote, your texts sometimes look like a Bush ad campaign...

PS: To not only reply on what you directed at Droopy: I doubt finding a new job or changing your profession is everywhere in the US that easy. And I guess the second choice costs money, that unemployed people usually lack.

quote:Originally posted by NoobileNow to my explanation of why kerry is a pinko commie bas7ard, firstly, he supports making the american public as dependant as humanly possile on, the government ( welfare, medecine, special"needs" programs, affermative action)

You call him communist for asking things that happen in more than half of the world. If you are unaware of the reality, it is your problem

When I saw Michael Moore's film I was still undecided about Bush/Kerry. But after I have seen that movie I finally made up my mind. Farenheit 9/11 is a collection of slander and un-supported accusations towards Bush and his administration. It is propaganda in the lowest of forms. For every fact mentioned in the movie, there are ten lies. Every Bush's mistake is blown out of proportions, none of his achievements were even mentioned. And nevertheless the Fat Pig (aka Michael Moore) keeps calling his work a "documentary".

I believe that Farenheit 9/11 ultimately backfired for the Democratic party. There were so many lies in that movie that people actually turned TO Bush after seeing it. I know that for me it was this way.

grand diablo, you raise very legitimate questions, some of them I do not know the answer to. Yes the contracts to rebuild Iraq were given mostly to the American companies. Simply because it was the Americans that toppled Saddam Hussein. However I believe that contracts were given to all the nations that are part of the coalition. Two-faced no-good countries like France obviously did not get anything, because their foreign policy comes down to "whatever USA does, we'll do the opposite". Of course nobody would let them take on any jobs in Iraq.

USA will not just pump all of the oil from Iraq like so many people think. The oil belongs to the Iraqi people, USA will BUY the oil from them. And the money will not go into the pockets of Hussein and his sons, but the money will go to the Iraqi people. It will be used to build hospitals, roads, schools, factories, everything that had been destroyed during the last thirty years of Saddam's reign.

Personally I believe that in the long run Iraq is better off. Just like Japan is better off in the long run, although they lost so many people in Hirosima and Nagasaki. Yes, there had been civilian casualties in this war. USA is trying their best to prevent them, but it is hard. But still you will see that in 10-15 years Iraq will be a completely transfored country, a state of Democracy in the Middle East.

This message was approved by George W Bush =)

I totally agree with BMF.

quote:Droopy, the good in the Iraqi war is the liberation of the Iraqi people. If you do not understand that, we are on different pages here. And if ANY war is a crime, than maybe USA should not have participated in the COLD WAR. Did you like Soviet tanks on your streets Droopy? When USA fights for your country, its GOOD, when USA fights for Iraq, it is BAD. Please show me the difference between saving your country from USSR back in the 80-90s, and saving Iraq from Saddam.

You didnt save our country. We were socialists already. We dont need American troops covering our backs. We cover our own backs.

About Iraq. It was all about oil and money. Sadam and "weapons of mass destruction" were a big fat lie. I'm suprised a guy like you cant see that.

Something strikes me about BMF's argument for justifying the war in Iraq - "We are fighting for the freedom of the Iraqi people". There is one word to describe that: NAIVE. Bush has NO reason to care about the welfare of the iraqi people (other than people who believe that's the reason for the war) so using that as an argument for the war is stupid. What does Bush gain from the war? Well, I'll leave it at that because then you enter the realm of theories and speculation, which is ugly.

Droopy if it was not for the United States, there would be Soviet tanks on your street right now. You can cover your back all you want, but the facts remain facts.

BManx2000, Bush gains political influence in the region. Hell, when USA was pumping millions into post-war Europe as a part of Marshall's plan, what was their gain? Nothing. When USA spent tens of billions of dollars to stop Milosevic, what was their gain? Nothing. You need to open your eyes sometimes, not everything is about money. Sure the United States will get a discount on Iraqi oil. Is that going to cover 200 billion pumped into that war already? I don't think so. Some people in this world still do things because they need to be done, not because they bring in cash.

Word bitch

quote:Originally posted by BManx2000What does Bush gain from the war?

Allies, trade...

quote:Originally posted by BMFBManx2000, Bush gains political influence in the region.


Funny, just recently you were spouting the virtues of liberating the iraqi people. I quote:
"Droopy, the good in the Iraqi war is the liberation of the Iraqi people."
"collapse of .com companies. Then combined with September 11, economy went down some more. None of which is Bush's fault. War in Iraq is the right thing, we are fighting for freedom of a nation. "
"We are the beacon of freedom."

BManx2000, by telling you what Bush GAINS in the war, I did not imply that everything I said before was WRONG. If you want to play a game of words, do it somewhere else. I did not contradict myself a single time in this thread (yet)

Of course USA gains alot of things in this war. We gain a valuable economic/political partner, (likely) discounts on oil, a democratic ally in the chaotic region called Middle East. And probably many other things that I can't think of right now. That does not change the fact that we are fighting on the side of Iraqi people and for the good of Iraqi people. Against some of the Iraqi people..

The question is, do iraqies really want to be liberated?
If you knew a bit of history what you are calling liberating was always called conquering, because obviously US place a puppet government there. France did to Spain in 1808 the same than US to Iraq now. Spanish were(and are) a bunch of fanatics that love the old times no matter if they are good or not. France was much advanced than Spain and offered them to get a Republic instead of being governed by the idiots of the kings. If you dont know what happened, look for it. And no, the situation is not the same than when US liberated Germany because germans are more open to changes.

I'm back...lets see
hm...

Over 500 Americans and literally countless Iraqis are dead because of a war that was supposedly fought to find weapons of mass destruction, did he find it?...


In Europe people are very concerned about the way President Bush acts...He is the most powerful man in the world, however he does not have any sense of responsability (does not give a damn [:-censored] about environmental problems, death penalty...). You Americans are so black or white.

You think that life is like Holywood that the good will win over the evil. You have not yet realised that we live in reality. Bush is such a hypocrite such a liar such an asshole..


Bush is an IDIOT and always will be, and any one who lies as much as he does will begin to believe there own lies as the truth. He thinks he can win the war on terror I think not. there are no winners in war. both sides lose, (people, property, money, friends, family, neibors, loved ones, pets, and possibly your own sole) The only way to win a war is to avoid creating a situation where war is the only option. I have to admit that ousting saddam may have been a good idea But it was the wrong way to do it.

Nice blackdevil, your post proves what BMF said.

noobile has WAY too much time on his hands

BMF: No seriously.. What DID America do for our country. No one won the Cold War. There were no (confirmed) attacks on both sides. You're acting like America saved the world from communism and nuclear war.

I'm not saying that the soviet union was the good side or anything couse I dont realy know much about the cold war. But please. Tell me what did America do for us?

One thing........ F**K Bush

I laugh at Zoldat's post, compared to the size of everyone else's.

Well, I think that during the cold war, the US started the development of a new government in Russia. However, Russia confirmed that the stats showed that there were many more problems with poverty, unemployment, and economy in general when USSR was a democracy. When it had "switched" over to communism, most of those problems had supposedly been fixed. It showed the world that what type of government works best depends on the country and it's leaders. That's how I remember it, but of course I'm probably wrong.

quote:Originally posted by blackdevil0742
Over 500 Americans and literally countless Iraqis are dead because of a war that was supposedly fought to find weapons of mass destruction, did he find it?...

"Supposedly" weapons of mass destruction were one of quite a few reasons to go into Iraq. Other reasons were to secure the region, look for terrorists, liberate Iraq, etc, etc. If you actually listened to Bush speak ONCE, you would know that WMDs were just one of many reasons.
quote:Originally posted by blackdevil0742In Europe people are very concerned about the way President Bush acts...He is the most powerful man in the world, however he does not have any sense of responsability (does not give a damn [:-censored] about environmental problems, death penalty...). You Americans are so black or white.

You say that Bush has no "sense of responsibility" but you state no reasons for saying that. I ask you for the third time, if you say something to me, please give me some facts.
You said that Bush "does not give a damn" about death penalty, actually he does. He has a certain position on death penalty, which you are not aware of. By the way, in America there are many people of mixed races, not just black or white.
quote:Originally posted by blackdevil0742
You think that life is like Holywood that the good will win over the evil. You have not yet realised that we live in reality. Bush is such a hypocrite such a liar such an asshole..


Bush is an IDIOT and always will be, and any one who lies as much as he does will begin to believe there own lies as the truth. He thinks he can win the war on terror I think not. there are no winners in war. both sides lose, (people, property, money, friends, family, neibors, loved ones, pets, and possibly your own sole) The only way to win a war is to avoid creating a situation where war is the only option. I have to admit that ousting saddam may have been a good idea But it was the wrong way to do it.

You call Bush a hypocrite, idiot, and an asshole, and again you do not give any reasons for that.
blackdevil, I think you are an idiot. Reasons? Everything you said in this thread so far is complete gibberish. I want to hear some REASONING, or I don't want to hear from you at all.

You can ask palloco, he may not agree with me, but he knows what I am talking about.

quote:Originally posted by DroopyBMF: No seriously.. What DID America do for our country. No one won the Cold War. There were no (confirmed) attacks on both sides. You're acting like America saved the world from communism and nuclear war.

I'm not saying that the soviet union was the good side or anything couse I dont realy know much about the cold war. But please. Tell me what did America do for us?

Maybe you are not aware of the fact that the USA invaded Normandy and stopped the Soviet army from advancing towards Portugal in 1944? Maybe you are not aware of the fact that USA spent billions and billions and billions of dollars to build up their army in 50s-80s, so that Soviet Union could not take over neighboring countries? Maybe you are not aware of the fact that every American gave away like a quater of his salary to support the nuclear race against Soviet Union for like 30 years?
Do you think USA LIKED the Cold war? They did that to save the world from USSR.

You are young and not very intelligent. You are not very intelligent because you say that "I dont realy know much about the cold war". Maybe you should open a book and read. If it was not for the USA, Soviet Union would still be standing tall. Ask your parents how they liked to live under Soviet occupation.

quote:Originally posted by BMF
quote:Originally posted by blackdevil0742You Americans are so black or white.

By the way, in America there are many people of mixed races, not just black or white.


Please tell me that was a joke.

Well, WMD was the first reason. Then when that didn't quite work out, Bush switched to "liberation." Kerry isn't the only one who changes position.

Omsion, I suggest you actually listen to what Bush had to say before he invaded Iraq. I love you morons get into an argument with your half-assed views, and you don't even know the simplest facts. Bush gave ALL the reasons to invade Iraq BEFORE he invaded it, INCLUDING the liberation, what was (what a coincidence) Bush's MAIN reason. Omsion get your facts straight, or shut your stupid mouth, I am seriously tired of you assholes talking about stuff you have NO idea about.

BManx, your sense of humor never let you down.

quote:Originally posted by BMFYou are young and not very intelligent. You are not very intelligent because you say that "I dont realy know much about the cold war". Maybe you should open a book and read. If it was not for the USA, Soviet Union would still be standing tall. Ask your parents how they liked to live under Soviet occupation.


The Cold War was also a time of constant fear for the two main powers, USA and USSR, and the pawn, Cuba. Everyone feared the worst, that nuclear holocaust would erupt at any moment. The tension just kept building, and building, and building, until it just dropped like a sack of potatos.

BMF, just because he doesn't know much about the Cold War doesn't mean he's unintelligent. That's very prejudice of you.

quote:Maybe you are not aware of the fact that the USA invaded Normandy and stopped the Soviet army from advancing towards Portugal in 1944? Maybe you are not aware of the fact that USA spent billions and billions and billions of dollars to build up their army in 50s-80s, so that Soviet Union could not take over neighboring countries? Maybe you are not aware of the fact that every American gave away like a quater of his salary to support the nuclear race against Soviet Union for like 30 years?
Do you think USA LIKED the Cold war? They did that to save the world from USSR.

You are young and not very intelligent. You are not very intelligent because you say that "I dont realy know much about the cold war". Maybe you should open a book and read. If it was not for the USA, Soviet Union would still be standing tall. Ask your parents how they liked to live under Soviet occupation.

Thank you for explaining that to me. I now see how importaint America is for the world and that without America we would proboably live under the Soviet dictature. Thank you very very much.

My country never lived under Soviet occupation. You proboably know that since you know so much about Slovenia that you dont need to open a book or maybe atlas and try finding my country.

You shouldnt call me uninteligent. You dont know me. Yes I am young. But that doesnt mean I think about girls and jerk off all the time. My country spends much more money on education than America. If you wanna get ahead in our country you need something more than just highschool. Please. Stop playing smart becouse it only makes you dumb.

Your country was never under Soviet control, because USA did not let the Soviets take control of it. Period.

Oh, c´mon BMF, Yugoslavia (or however its spelled in English) was under the control of Tito, who was also socialist and had bravely fought against the axis. In no way had US helped him, because he was more wiling to collaborate with USSR than with US

quote:Originally posted by BManx2000quote:Originally posted by BMF
quote:Originally posted by blackdevil0742You Americans are so black or white.

By the way, in America there are many people of mixed races, not just black or white.


Please tell me that was a joke.


...eh I didn't see at it in that way when I wrote that...sorry...
it doesn't seem that you care so mutch of what I say. hmm 'don't write stuff if you don't have anything to say'...but I'm telling you things that I see from my point of view.

BMF: What Palloco said.

Yugoslavia(Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia combined together) lasted from the end of WW2 till year 1991 when Slovenia left. We left 8 years after Josip Broz-TITO(respect) died. Here's what my parents said about socialism and life in Yugoslavia.
The idea of Socialism is that everyone is the same. There were no big differences between rich or poor. Everyone got their share so everyone was satisfied. Those were happy days. Rock was in the air(Igra rokenrol cijela Jugoslavija-If anyone understands:D) and... well.. happy times! Sounds good eh? Well. Every goverment has it's good things and bad things. The bad thing about socialism is that becouse everyone got their share, there wasnt enough money for other stuff.. Like soap(yeah I cant belive it eighter).
Anyways to the point.
I'm trying to say that Socialism and Communism(communism is kind of a step ahead of socialism) arent as bad as you expect. They sound good and work until the country gets a worng leader. This hapened in Russia, this happened in Yugoslavia. Thats why Communism fails. TITO lead Yugoslavia for a long time. When he died Everything went wrong. The money went to the wrong place. We started hating one another. The usual.
A simmilar thing happened in Russia when Lenin died. After Stalin took over(Lenin didnt want that to happen - I read the letter) and WW2 was over. Well.. You proboably know about hunger and the killings and stuff like that. Actualy it started happening before the end of the second world war.

I hope now you see that communism isnt THE EVIL and start looking at it from another angle.

This is a bit offtopic but:
I hate my goverment. It's full of litle scared tie-asses that would do everything for money. Thats why I like communism more than democrasy. Look at Cuba for instance.

When Bush gave a speech about Iraq, I believe he specificaly stated that the US might be attacked within 48 hours by Saddam.
He didn't say we WOULD be attacked, but he said we might be. Quite enough to panic more than a few housewifes, but plenty of room to squirm out of it when no WMDs turned up. Plus, what exactly has Iraq become now? It seems like the old out of the frying pan into the fire expression to me. Agreed that Saddam was terrible, but he wasn't a terrorist. There is a difference between a ruthless dictator and a terrorist, and I don't feel that we should fight him under the pretext of the War on TERROR. Of course now the country is quite a hotbed of terrorism, but since we're winning so well, we don't even have to worry! Another victory!

palloco, I am an idiot, I messed up on my history. USA never helped Yogoslavia, because they sided with USSR to begin with. Lol thats even worse.

Droopy... I don't know what your parents told you about socialism, but thats not how it really works. Socialism is a system where the government takes (alot of) money from the people, and distributes is more or less equally between everybody. That means that a hard working man who spends 12 hours a day at work, will get almost the same treatment as a bum, who does not work at all. In Socialism, if you work HARD, givernment takes your money, if you don't work at ALL, then government still provides for you. And there is not much incentive to work hard, since all the money gets taken away. And the soap dissapears not because somebody stole it, but because nobody wants to work. Socialism is bad, mmmkay?
And by the way Lenin was as evil as Stalin. He murdered alot of innocent people. And nothing was good with Tito, people just thought that everything was fine. But when he died the economy finally went to hell. Not because everybody was stealing, but because the whole Socialistic ideology is flawed. It is based on the assumption that all the people are created equally, and therefore will do EQUAL AMOUNTS OF WORK. Capitalism is based an the idea that all people were created equal, but that all people are LAZY, so if they don't work they are on their own. "Take from the rich, give to the poor" attitude had been tried time and again, and it never works.

Jello, you BELIEVE that Bush said the United States was going to be attacked within 24 hours?? What kind of a half-assed response is that?! What the hell is wrong with you? Did you bother to look for the TRANSCRIPT of his speech? Or are you pulling facts right out of your ass, just like your friend Droopy?
Bush never said anything about Saddam attacking in 48 hours. He said Saddam needs to give up power in 48 hrs, or USA is going to attack.

In any case, can we please let this thread die?

Guess what ? Spam !

On the communism issue:
Communism works and is great in theory, but doesnt work in reality.
let's end the communist talk there.

Stop arguing over politics~ It isn't doing anything positive~

SpamaSpamsSpamsSpamhSpamaSpamtSpamtSpameSpamrSpamySpam.

Socialism can be adpated to times. When it was formulated2 centuries ago the technolgy that we use did not exist. Back then a lazy man should simply be get in jail since it was very difficult to check who worked and who not. Now credit cards can be used, those who work are allowed to get luxury objects, while those who dont will be simply forced to work unles they like to survive by simply eating basic food and receiving health care.

lol, you dont relaise that people like bush (republicans?) have made the national debt rise and people like kerry (democrats?) have made it fall..

[IMAGE]

well done america :)

Ahh wassow, maybe you should learn how to spell and understand economics and politics before you post things. I dont like Bush, but there are reasons for the national debt raising. It is a tactic.

BMF: You have your views I have my views. I'll just stick with mine and back off. I can see we're getting nowhere with this "argument". Just do me one favor and stop calling me a [IMAGE]ing moron!

Dont reply. It's not worth looking at this topic again so.. I wont!

The End

Damn you BMF you are correct about the speech.
But I believe my other points are still valid.
Damn.

Wassow, what Famine said. High surplus means that people are overtaxed. High deficit means that people are under taxed. Under taxed means high incentives for business to grow. When economy is recovering, it is good to let it grow for a while with low taxes. That's what Bush's administration is doing, I believe. I have only a basic knowledge of ecomony.

both parties have their own belief's. EACH work but it depends it which system you like. So dont say High Debts will [IMAGE] up america.

btw gj stealing my avatar

Hi BMF were have u been :D

In here doing a damn good job at defending himself.

Check the newspaper about kids scared of the draff so much that they toke te library hostage and demanded Bushes word that their will be no draff....
he better not... or else

Hehe. Those kids demanded a promise from Bush that he would not reinstate the draft by taking a library hostage? That's gotta be the stupidest thing I heard lately. Bush assured the public that there would be no draft in his every compaign speech. I think I heard him say "there would be no draft" about a hundred different times, including 3 times during the presidential debates. I guess those "kids" havent been watching TV or reading the news these last five or six months.

DT, God forbid you have to go out and serve you country huh?

quote:God forbid you have to go out and serve you country huh?

I wont fight in a war I dont believe in. Anyway I dont trust politics, so we will see how things go.

"There ought to be limits to freedom"- Goeorge W. Bush
That sums it all up.

mmeaney. I must be incredible stupid because I dont get what does it sum.
Freedom MUST be limited, was limited, is limited and will be limited forever.

quote:God forbid you have to go out and serve you country huh?
I'm not going to get innocent blood on my hands for any nation. You're sick and wrong if you think that's justice being done. Coming from a college student like you! You wouldn't be drafted anyways.

I am not saying I will dodge the draft. There's alternatives to killing people when a draft comes up. Ever heard of alternative service? During the vietnam war my uncle helped locals farm and sustain a food supply. When he came back he was just as much a war hero as anyone who had a star on their shirt.

freedom

? noun 1 the power or right to act, speak, or think freely. 2 the state of being free. 3 (freedom from) exemption or immunity from. 4 unrestricted use of something: the dog had the freedom of the house. 5 a special privilege or right of access, especially that of full citizenship of a particular city given to a public figure as an honour.

Freedom must be limited? We should not be able to act,speak or think completly freely? LAND OF THE FREE! Not land of the limited freedom.

Ok. I am going to kill you now. You believe i deserve to kill you because I am free.

quote:Originally posted by pallocoOk. I am going to kill you now. You believe i deserve to kill you because I am free.


lol...he makes a good point. You have to limit some of the freedoms people have, because it's pretty clear that some people enjoy killing, raping, mugging, extortion, and so on and so forth down the list. Don't be in such a rush to leap up and protect your freedom that you don't think ahead. Some "freedoms" must be limited for the good of society, and any of you who are so quick to say that "no freedom can be limited!" would agree with my in a heartbeat if you were on the recieving end of someone carrying out his freedom to steal your wallet or rape your grandma.

I lost what little faith in the American people I had when they brought that man back into office. I can understand it with the split vote and the corruption in the voting system in Florida, but this was a fair election this time. Sure, I didnt agree with Kerry on a looot of things, but seriously, our esteemed president can't even speak English well.

Im just wondering what you wear to a civil war.

mmeaney you are a complete tool. Your freedoms are limited every day. Ever heard of the police force that limits your freedom to steal and kill people? Ever heard of the speed restrictions on the highways? They limit your freedom to go a 100 miles per hour dude!! Ever heard of laws against rape, sex with minors, drug abuse, that sort of thing. Rings the bell eh?

YEAH! Screw the police, screw the traffic lights, screw all the ridiculous things that "limit" our freedom. Try not to be a typical liberal and think at least TWO steps ahead.

Elephant Hunter, I said it before, and I will say it again. The war in Iraq is a righteous war. Just like the second World War, just like the Vietnam war, just like the Cold war, or the war in Kuwait. In the military you do not kill innocent people, or at least you do your best to AVOID killing innocent people. We are doing the right thing, and yea I am enlisting after I get out of school.

Airpi to the civil war you'll wear my ass as a hat.

quote:DT, God forbid you have to go out and serve you country huh?
i already have...
i'm not doing it twice

Care to elaborate?

Don't want to spoil your toughts BMF, but that war won't end.Ever.The Bush cabinet prolly already decided to stay in Iraq for a long time...until they exhaust the oil there.If you think that war is about fighting terrorism, think again.It's about oil.

Wow, DeMonic, you really opened my eyes. You explained the whole situation to me in just two lines. You are so smart man! Are all the people in Hungary as smart as you?

I especcially liked this part: "The Bush cabinet prolly already decided to stay in Iraq for a long time". Wow, you really hit the nail on the head. You should prolly get the hell out of this thread, because here we are having a civilized discussion. If you want to butt in with your half-assed comments, do it at the dinner table at home. Here if say something, you stand by it, you don't just throw random phrases around.

So DeMonic I suggest that you unscrew yourself, and give me a solid argument to support your (idiotic) point of view. Or you are assed-out.

"but that war won't end"

LOL dude

Talking about throwing shit around, watch yourself...

quote:Originally posted by BMF
...
That's about the stupidest thing I heard today. Famine, you are a smart kid, but you need to stop let the liberal schmucks poison your brain.
...

quote:Originally posted by BMF
...
By the way I don't trust you, idiot
...

quote:Originally posted by BMF
...
because all you can think of, are the ways to spill dirt on USA
...

quote:Originally posted by BMFblackdevil0742, you can't explain why. You just say things you have no idea what they mean.

You just said "LOL Bush is an ASSHOLE LOL WTF!!!"

...
if you don't EXPLAIN what you say, then dont bother SAYING IT. All you liberals morons do
...

Elephant Hunter, here is an idea for you - move to Canada, or ... shut your mouth?


Get the fuck out of this thread? This is the bash pit. I'm tired of you masquerading like you're god.
.

LOL, loser's crying?

Say wha?...

LOL reply. Fear it

Baka palloco

It's my opinion that since the industrial revolution, America must be near constantly at war to sustain our economy.
Think about it. The periods of prosperity we have are directly after a major war (i.e. the fifties). The longest period
of time we've had without war since the fifties has been the eight years of the Clinton administration, and even then
we were bombing Iraq from time to time. The 90's are considered prosperous-a good economy, and they were a mere few years since the cold war ended and Russia became a democracy. Military action is America's main export.

Elephant Hunter, you need to decide if you want to suck up to me, or bash me. Make up your mind, you can't do everything at once. Unless you are John Kerry.

Jello, you keep surprising me with history facts I didn't know. "We were bombing Iraq from time to time".. Damn, I am speechless. I remember some action in Somalia in 93, I remember the whole Serbian intervention. But now you uncovered top secret Iraqi bombings apparently authorized by Clinton himself. How about that huh?!

quote:Originally posted by DeMonIcDon't want to spoil your toughts BMF, but that war won't end.Ever.The Bush cabinet prolly already decided to stay in Iraq for a long time...until they exhaust the oil there.If you think that war is about fighting terrorism, think again.It's about oil.


Oil exists elsewhere in the world, in plentyof other places including the US. Oil isn't the reason for this war. And BMF...you're not right about everything. If you think Iraq is a "righteous" war, you're sorely mistaken.

What is baka?

Baka Baka. I don't suck up to folks... and I tend to act mature unless they aren't.

BMF isn't going to change his opinion anytime soon, and neither is Geologist nor Famine. This arguement is obviously not about convincing, though, because all of you have been calling everyone who is gullible enough to believe you an idiot. It's an issue of pride. You're thinking, "Man, if I can post something bigger and better than him he'll look like real dumb." So you keep your cool and try to argue about tidbits of irrelivant crap like how other nations "owe" us or shit like the war in Iraq being started for oil. It's fucking pathetic.

Now king me bitch.

Afaik, natural resources in the US are not used, because they are "tactical resources".Recent research proved that we will be out of oil in about 10 years...so think for a bit: how much does it worth to have 60% of the worlds oil support when we're almost dryed out?Iraq was a good target, because at first glance, this war looks like a crusade against terrorism, so it gained support.Even if there would be a unified Iraq again, the US would keep it's army there, and put it's hand on the oil.Lot of other places hold oil, sure: but most of them are part of the UN.This is just my opinion, and I'm paranoid, so you don't have to believe me.Just think of this aswell.

Oil will run ou... what are we going to do when all of it s gone...
[IMAGE] we will have to be like midevil times with swords... but not hot oil to dump on your foes...
we need those damn water cars

What is baka, you fervellasberzas do carallo.

Sure. This war is for oil. That's why I'm paying two bucks a gallon for gas...

BMF, I was in no way implying that the bombing of Iraq was some sort of top secret information, and I would like to see where you got this idea. I was simply using it, along with other information to back up my claim that America must be constantly at war to sustain it's economy. And this time I'm not even attacking Bush, simply the entire system that put the war in place.

Next time, please give me a real response to my positions, instead of misinterpreting my post and whining about it.

quote:Originally posted by The GeologistIf you think Iraq is a "righteous" war, you're sorely mistaken.

Oh ok, if you put it that way.. Wow, you really opened my eyes.

Elephant Hunter, I am just trying to build a conversation here, I am not changing anybody's opinions. I just want everybody who posts in this thread, to give me some reasoning. Is that so hard?

DT I still want to know how you "served your country". Care to elaborate on this?

Jello, I did not know (completely forgot) that Clinton bombed Iraq at some point. I am a complete dumbass, and I made a fool of myself. After your first screw up with that Bush speech, I assumed that you had no idea what you were talking about. My bad, DAWG.

S'alright BMF, I think we worked out our differences over that Deathmatch.

And yes, BMF did pwn me on the server, but I maintained a respectable 2nd to 4th place rank in a server of ten

quote:Originally posted by pallocoWhat is baka, you fervellasberzas do carallo.


Baka: Idiot or foolish person.

Broken record: BMF.

quote:Elephant Hunter, I am just trying to build a conversation here, I am not changing anybody's opinions. I just want everybody who posts in this thread, to give me some reasoning. Is that so hard?

What's the cause for wanting some reasoning? You need to start answering your own questions before imposing them on other folks, or I won't take you seriously. Really now, what constitutes as solid evidence? Is it at your sole discretion? Because I know as soon as I do bring up something against ol' BMF then he'll just turn around huffing and puffing, saying my reasoning is without fact or base. You can't kid me anymore.

quote:Is that so hard?

Aesthetically, yes... Put on some of that yummy makeup and act like you don't hear me.

Hmmm.. I believe I gave all my reasons already in this thread. If you refuse to acknowledge them, that's another story.

My point exactly.

I just want to be friends

Sure. Anybody who argues as well as you is welcome to be my friend.

Will you be my special friend Elephant Hunter?

"MY ANUS IS BLEEDING"

Will you be my special friend BMF?

come on dude, thats just ghey, I cant believe you said that

BMF, just bend over. You know I dont like it when someone starts talking in the middle of it.

;)

TFS pull my hair

It just wouldn't be a threesome without Fabman, and Marbire crying in the background. :P

Yea...

Crying while he...beats off..?

heh
ye yah hi yea

Do I hear gay sex? :D

That'd be your selective hearing.

Geologist, crying because he can't get any from the gay triplet, haha.

(Yes, it's a joke. I don't mean to offend Marb or any of my past clanmates.)