this is for EVERYONE who's posted this link:
http://217.160.163.211/globalvote2004/

Listen to me very carefully, because I'm TIRED of saying htis in every F*CkING thread about Bush winning the election.

First off: The total votes cast in that so called "election" didn't even break 1 million. We had multiple millions of votes in each state so stop treating this SURVEY like it was some sort of world election.

Secondly: who the f*ck CARES? I'm sorry world, but this is our leader we were voting for. Not yours. I understand the election had a lot to do with international politics, but most of you are not privy to the information we are. You arn't here, you don't care about our domestic issues, which, I'm sorry, weigh much heavier on my plate than what we're going to do in Iraq.

The "world" has looked at the people of the US and told us to "get that guy out" but in favor of whom? Kerry in terms of what he stands for is SO freaking similar to Bush it makes me sick. But that's your mind set. The world "doesn't want Bush." That is the most ignorant f*cking excuse to vote for someone. That's like just blindly picking the name from the hat. I know I've joked about this, but it's seriously not even funny when you as*holes start citing it as evidence. The long lost son of Hitler could have run against Bush and you would have told the American people to "vote for Hitler!" So you know what? F*CK OFF.

Kerry did not have the same sort of "tight grip on the wheel" that Bush has. For better for worse a very large portion of our country is scared of terrorist attacks, and as such will vote for who they see to be stronger. That man was simply Bush. That's all it came down to. The man running against Bush appeared weak willed before him, and as such lost the election.

That isn't the fault of the American people, it's the fault of the f*cked up 2 party system we're rocking, and frankly we've got no legitiment way to change it.

On the news today I saw a correspondent from Great Brittain say, "We understand him being voted into office the first time, no one could have known. But this time he won the popular vote in spite of what he's done. To the people of America: that is inexcusable"

Lady.

Go run ass first into a d*ck field!

You have no concept of the domestic issues we face OR it would seem, the international ones. Because Kerry would not handle Iraq from this current vantage any different than Bush. It's that simple. We're in and we're stuck and there is nothing we can do about it except slog through till it's done.

So stop patronizing the people of the US for not going along with the World's vote. It wasn't your f*cking election and it wasn't only about your f*cking issues.

Amen.

hey guys..check this link out..

bush won! OMG!!

http://217.160.163.211/globalvote2004/

Wow...you're so funny. Did you think that up all by yourself or did your ferrets help you? :)

Seriously Lumpy wtf happened to you? :P

bush cheated... a example is that if you have a traffic violation and it was during the election you were to be arrested if you voted...aimed at people that he knew wouldn't vote for him
my busdriver told me that

I'd love to see evidence for that DT, because aside from that it's just the rantings of a clinically retarded bus driver.

Bush won the popular vote this time, so it's not like he won by some systematic technicality.

quote:Secondly: who the f*ck CARES? I'm sorry world, but this is our leader we were voting for. Not yours. I understand the election had a lot to do with international politics, but most of you are not privy to the information we are. You arn't here, you don't care about our domestic issues, which, I'm sorry, weigh much heavier on my plate than what we're going to do in Iraq.


The economy of the US is based on globalistic, multi-nationalistic politics. Every civilian of the world got a meaning about the US Elections, as they should have because the US is the most important country. What the US-governement decides also inflects us, the world. The measures taken by the governement for the domestic issues also means that there are savings/investments on other issues, economical issues, military issues, etc.

I care about politics in all countries of the world, as most Europeans do. We don't have a narrow minded vision, cause we know the world IS MORE than just Europe, part of the UN, IMF, WHO, etc...

quote:
The "world" has looked at the people of the US and told us to "get that guy out" but in favor of whom? Kerry in terms of what he stands for is SO freaking similar to Bush it makes me sick. But that's your mind set. The world "doesn't want Bush." That is the most ignorant f*cking excuse to vote for someone. That's like just blindly picking the name from the hat. I know I've joked about this, but it's seriously not even funny when you as*holes start citing it as evidence. The long lost son of Hitler could have run against Bush and you would have told the American people to "vote for Hitler!" So you know what? F*CK OFF.


Oversimplified vision on NON-US people, as NON-US people have on Americans. No use for a reaction.

quote:
Kerry did not have the same sort of "tight grip on the wheel" that Bush has. For better for worse a very large portion of our country is scared of terrorist attacks, and as such will vote for who they see to be stronger. That man was simply Bush. That's all it came down to. The man running against Bush appeared weak willed before him, and as such lost the election.


As we aren't paranormal gifted and most of us don't had a look at the psychological tests (if he ever had one) of Kerry, we can decide this paragraph of Bush/Kerry is just a subjective thought, your meaning, the meaning of ONE man.

quote:
That isn't the fault of the American people, it's the fault of the f*cked up 2 party system we're rocking, and frankly we've got no legitiment way to change it.


True. The known problem : particracy versus democracy.

quote:
On the news today I saw a correspondent from Great Brittain say, "We understand him being voted into office the first time, no one could have known. But this time he won the popular vote in spite of what he's done. To the people of America: that is inexcusable"

Lady.

Go run ass first into a d*ck field!

You have no concept of the domestic issues we face OR it would seem, the international ones. Because Kerry would not handle Iraq from this current vantage any different than Bush. It's that simple. We're in and we're stuck and there is nothing we can do about it except slog through till it's done.



Strange World. Do i really have to copy more than over a million hilarious quotes of the FOX news ? of from O'Reilly ?
I know it's strange for YOU, but WE actually care about international politics.

Kerry's vision on Iraq was/is different from Bush one. Kerry notices the increasing instability in Iraq, the slow building on the reconstruction, the more room that is created for new possible terrorists... He saw the war in Iraq as an distraction on the REAL terroristic problem, the al-qaida terrorists with as leader Osama Bin Laden.

We all ( SHOULD ! ) know Iraq wasn't a danger for the Western world, for the US, the war in Iraq wasn't an answer on 9/11, but still a lot of people seems to think it was...

quote:So stop patronizing the people of the US for not going along with the World's vote. It wasn't your f*cking election and it wasn't only about your f*cking issues.


Be happy we actually care about you. We are interested in the US politics.
Just remember this : 'We got a meaning, you got the vote'.

I concur with SP.

There are a LOT more people who are of legal voting age in Australia than 7509.

It was always known democracy degenerates into despotism

I don't know if i'm the first to post that site but i did in the BUSH WON! topic. Let me just say that I think it's important to know what other people outside our country think because we affect everyone. I don't really care that it had less a million voters on that site at least I get to see what these people believe. You may not give a [:-censored] what they think but I and other people do so stfu. Pulp sure does make a whole lot more sense than you do SP

Meh I was just yelling because I was frusterated with debating the topic on this forum and on the others. I'll try and calm down and respond to a few of these, cuz that 2 AM rant of mine cost me some debate ground. Reading it now I certainly came across as that "dumb American" view I despise so much.

My issue is people have been citing that piece of evidence and pointing to the people of the US like we're a bunch of dumb clods. And I understand that, being as the US is kinda in everyone's buisness, there's of course reason for your intrest in the election. But see, what I'm saying is your inerests and the inerests of people who live here are drasticly different. And Pulp I do sincerely hope you're not watching FOX for your American news, that station's about as "fair and balanced" as Charles Manson.

quote:
Kerry's vision on Iraq was/is different from Bush one. Kerry notices the increasing instability in Iraq, the slow building on the reconstruction, the more room that is created for new possible terrorists... He saw the war in Iraq as an distraction on the REAL terroristic problem, the al-qaida terrorists with as leader Osama Bin Laden.


You don't think Bush realizes there's instability? I mean I know the guy is clinically retarded, but I think even he could see that. What I say Bush and Kerry would handle Iraq the same I mean just that. We are in and we're committed, and you didn't address this point. It's not like if Kerry was elected Iraq would magically be solved, and if I'm not mistaken that's a major consern on the international community's plates.

Really I'm not trying to defend Bush or his actions, and I'll say right now, I did not vote for him. What I'm trying to defend is the people of the US, because Bush wasn't reelected without reason. It's not because we like pissing off the world, it's because a very good portion of us are scared. We're scared of terrorist attacks and war. These are fears I personally believe were amplified by Bush, not quelled. But, as the last election said, I am in the minority with that view point.



Now, I will not retract my remarks that this globalvote 2k4 was a bad source. It was. The "survey" was extremely poorly done. Check this out:

quote:
The top-voting countries were:
Country Votes
Germany 32315
United Kingdom 17641
Canada 8587
Poland 7829
Spain 3932
Japan 3885
New Zealand 3105
Netherlands 2582
France 2269
Switzerland 2235


We didn't get the "world's" vote on this. We got Germany and Great Brittain's vote. And actually I was mistaken. The total number of votes cast was less than 100,000, not a million. IMO this is too small a sample and done to too specific an area to be considered valid backing or evidence for... anything really. It's seriously a misleading bit of data.



The world has basically called the US a bunch of retards for voting Bush back in. Regardless of my vote, sorry, I take that personally. And if you're going to hold that view, yah. go [IMAGE] yourself.

[EDIT]

Pulp, how was my saying "The world tells us to get that guy out" oversimplified? That's exactly what we heard :-|

pulp is a yummie belgian lotsa <3<3<3

rofl thanks Denacke for lightening the thread ;)

Can we get back to *Soldat* now? And forget Bush and Kerry for [IMAGE]s sake?

Actually I set up a soldat game with a bunch of "George Bush" bots who ran around unarmed.... mmm... good times.

Ill tell you what happened to me..

I became stuck in niagara falls canada for like...4 friggn months..

with nothing to do!!

....?

quote:Originally posted by pallocoIt was always known democracy degenerates into despotism

No, it was anarchy (although I wouldn't say that anarchy degenerates).

This Thread Sucks. Stfu. Dole '08.

Really though, Bush > Kerry.

Unless you like paying HIGH taxes.

Bush > Kerry if you like the prospect of being DRAFTED.

oh... and stfu

Remember to vote Al Gore ^^

*chuckles*

Unfortunatly, I was 16 when the last elections rolled around, so I couldn't vote. Though if I recall correctly my dislike for bush at that point was limited to his complete lack of public speaking abilities.

Al Gore rockin' the full beard Grizzly Adams look on the Daily Show after he lost cracked me up

quote:Originally posted by Social PoisonI'd love to see evidence for that DT, because aside from that it's just the rantings of a clinically retarded bus driver.

Bush won the popular vote this time, so it's not like he won by some systematic technicality.

my bus drivers black and he got the letter and he had a traffic violation to... so i'm pretty sure thats the truth
and i'm sure if you dug around you would find more stuff about bush cheating to... or being cheap...

Did you see where I told that guy to "stfu" with a link showing that republicans increase the national debt more than democrat presidents? Or how I cited the actual figures that very dumb website put forward, showing it's research gathering methods did not warrant it to be a credible source? That's what we're looking for here again. For all we know you made that up :p

[IMAGE]

;o)

A plate full of steaming hot bullsh*t.

That's a funny little chart that has been making the rounds since the last election but just recoloring the states to coincide with this election. I'm sure it was posted in fun, but lest anyone take it seriously, I have some information regarding this study and about IQ in general if anybody cares. The book "IQ and Wealth of Nations" actually made up the IQ scores by assigning a seemingly arbitrary IQ score to the average income of the state as calcutlated from their income taxes (the higher the avergage income, the higher IQ score they assigned). The Economist did publish it, but later retracted it when they found out the basis of the information. One flaw in that logic is that the states that are near the top of the list also happen to be states with a higher cost of living which generally leads to higher income level. The higher cost of living tends to be concentrated around the big cities and heavily populated areas where people overwhelmingly vote democrat. Another flaw is that by definition, 100 is the median IQ with a standard deviation of 15 (so if your IQ is 115, you are one standard deviation above the median). This means that 1/2 of the population of the US is at or above 100, and half is at or below 100. If we assume that people who voted are the only ones being included in the chart, how did Bush win over 50% of the popular vote but no state with a score of over 100 went to Bush? There were even 2 states below 100 that went to Kerry.

Here's a site purporting to list the average IQs by state as correlated with the SAT test (probably a much more reliable predictor of IQ than the amount income taxes paid). The basic trend in IQ still exists to a certain degree, but remember the #1 rule of correlation: correlation does not mean causation.

The south as a trend has a much worse of an educational system than other parts of the country... I mean... it's not even debatable.

http://www.morganquitno.com/edrank.htm

Notice that a southern state doesn't even break the 50th percentile.

quote:
One flaw in that logic is that the states that are near the top of the list also happen to be states with a higher cost of living which generally leads to higher income level. The higher cost of living tends to be concentrated around the big cities and heavily populated areas where people overwhelmingly vote democrat.


That jump doesn't even apply here. So what if more densely populated areas vote democrat? Does that change the fact that they're smarter than the average southerner? No.



Here's another one and it takes the states things right out of the picture. A study was conducted comparing viewers of the Daily Show to viewers of the O'Riley factor. If you're familiar with these two shows, you can easily make the assumption that Daily Show viewers are much more liberal... and O'Riley Factor viewers are much more conservative. Therefore Daily Show viewers: more likely to vote democrat, O'Riley Factor viewers: more likely to vote republican.

Still with me?

And now to show that Daily Show viewers are smarter than O'Riley Factor viewers:

quote:
Viewers of Jon Stewart?s show are more likely to have completed four years of college than people who watch ?The O?Reilly Factor,? according to Nielsen Media Research.


and

quote:
Comedy Central also touted a recent study by the University of Pennsylvania?s National Annenberg Election Survey, which said young viewers of ?The Daily Show? were more likely to answer questions about politics correctly than those who don?t.


Source

Believe it or not liberals arn't a bunch of stoned slackers. We know our stuff and ask questions... which is apparently much more than we can say for our "Sons of the South"

quote:That jump doesn't even apply here. So what if more densely populated areas vote democrat? Does that change the fact that they're smarter than the average southerner? No.I think you missed the point. The point isn't 'more densely populated areas tend to vote democrat.' The point is:
1. More densely populated areas (which tend to vote democrat) tend to have a higher cost of living.
2. A higher cost of living tends to lead to generally higher incomes (to accomadate the higher cost of living).
3. The "study" assumes higher income levels are reflective of higher IQ scores.
SO, this "study" basically concludes that just because a person lives in a densely populated area, they have a higher IQ.
I'm not saying whether they do or don't have higher IQs... just that this "study" does not prove it.

Ah, well with that much I would agree: Population density does not mean higher IQ. However, if you take a look at the chart I posted, it is actually based on the average intelligence of each state, hence it is much more valid for this discussion.

quote:Originally posted by Social PoisonBush > Kerry if you like the prospect of being DRAFTED.

oh... and stfu


Wrong idiot. The draft bill was rejected a LONG time ago by congress. Atleast 4 months ago, so no draft will be reinstated.

Learn wtf you are talking about before you talk at all.

That, and the Bush's raise in debt was because the USA went to war to protect YOUR ASS. You should thank them. The government has to spend money to progress. If you don't like it, go to Mexico or Canada, they aren't that far away.

Wrong idiot. The draft bill was rejected a LONG time ago by congress. Atleast 4 months ago, so no draft will be reinstated.

Does that mean he won't try again? Hey Kelba open your [IMAGE]ing eyes:

-Our troops are serving double tours
-Bush called people back from RETIREMENT to fill ranks
-We are, by our government's own admission, about 50,000 soldiers short to finish the job (I think it's much more)
-The international community has already said, "Yah right" to our request for more troops.

There's only one other place to go.

And really, it doesn't matter that I'm right or not about the possiblity of there being a draft. Many many many MANY people think there is going to be one. I'll tell you strait up right now, I'm scared of being drafted to go fight in a war I don't believe in. But if I die, then I'll be one of thousands who's tombstones say "I died for a cause I didn't believe in". And regardless of what Bush says, that cause wasn't freedom.

quote:
Learn wtf you are talking about before you talk at all.


At least I cite sources. Where's yours?

quote:
That, and the Bush's raise in debt was because the USA went to war to protect YOUR ASS. You should thank them. The government has to spend money to progress. If you don't like it, go to Mexico or Canada, they aren't that far.


Hey Kelba... how the [IMAGE] OUT of debt! Because in another 20 years that [:-censored]'s gonna compound and we're NOT going to be able to pay off even the INTREST anymore.

And what about the big big [IMAGE]ing tax cut? Huh? This is the first time in HISTORY a president has given a tax cut while increasing the national debt.

You ignorant [IMAGE]. I can't believe you fall for what Bush's administration says hook line and sinker.

quote:
Does that mean he won't try again? Hey Kelba open your eyes


No, he can try it again. It means congress will reject it again.

And want proof about the House rejecting the draft bill?

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=house+rejects+draft+bill&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t-151&fl=0&x=wrt

I Yahoo Searched it. Look at all the Links. Happy?



And Phantom WMD? We didn't know if they HAD WMD which is why we invaded. Don't believe the "He wants oil" [:-censored], it's just propaganda. If we wanted oil, we have a huge untouched resource in Montana. (If you want proof, Google it)

We have found scud missiles, and rockets that could carry nerve agents and such in Iraq. Nothing that big yet, but now there is the Russia problem...Russia was sneaking weapons out of Iraq right under our nose. Who knows what they took? Plus, we took out a dictator who was infringing on every Human Right you could think of. What is so bad about that? FFS, he gassed innocent people.

But no, all you do is sit home and bitch about how Bush sucks and has done jack[:-censored] for the USA/World.

The country is at war. Like I said, that's why we are in debt. Actually, the US has never been OUT of debt. It's a fact of life, nothing you can do about it.

The LEAST you could do is support American Soldiers, so they don't feel like [:-censored] fighting for a useless war. They are losing their lives for you, and this is how you show your gratitude.


Also, kinda off topic now, but South-Western states having a lower IQ isn't their fault. I'm not being racist or anything, but illegal immigrants don't exactly focus on an education...

You failed to adress one hang point. Why the hell did we have a tax cut? Defend that little diddy.

And if we didn't go in for WMDs what did we go in for?

quote:The LEAST you could do is support American Soldiers, so they don't feel like [:-censored] fighting for a useless war. They are losing their lives for you, and this is how you show your gratitude

When did I say anything about the American soldiers? Show me that setion of my post. I've got friends in Iraq, and a very close friend of mine ships off on the 14th. I'm saying goodbye to him, quite possibly forever. Unlike the people of the 60's, the anti-war people of today can differentiate between the troops and the war. Stop trying to pigeon hole me.

And again, how are they losing their lives for me. You have yet to adress that. How was Iraq a danger to my safety?



Look, I want nothing more than to be wrong about the possiblity of a draft. That's the honest truth. It's just we've been lied to so much by this administration about the war in Iraq I've got no reason to believe him.



So in short answer these questions:

How are the soldiers dying in Iraq protecting my safety?
Why did Bush enact a tax cut when he was in the middle of the greatest jump in our national debt in history?
Do you think it's impossible to be against a war without hating the troops?

quote:So in short answer these questions:

How are the soldiers dying in Iraq protecting my safety?
Why did Bush enact a tax cut when he was in the middle of the greatest jump in our national debt in history?
Do you think it's impossible to be against a war without hating the troops?

1. The reason the war started was because Saddam refused to disarm his weapons. We invaded to disarm them ourselves, and topple his regiem (sp?) to avoid further problems with him. The disarment was what was for our protection. We are still in the war because the world would hate us has Saddam Loyalists running about, so that is why we're still in Iraq. To eliminate them. First we fought for us, now we are fighting for the Iraqi people who would be screwed if we left them witht he loyalists.

2. I don't know to be honest. If I remember correctly, you brought this up when I mentioned Kerry would raise taxes a lot. He would....

"In the 12 years since the National Taxpayers Union began grading the voting records of members of Congress on tax-and-spending issues, Kerry has received the grade of "F" eleven times. In 1996, the one year Kerry did not receive an "F," he received a "D.""
- http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=4952

Both are crap on this issue.

3. And no I don't think it's impossible, but every past arguement I've seen about the war had the anti-war person being anti-support for our troops.

quote:The disarment was what was for our protection.

And THAT sir is where you and I differ. I do not believe this disarmement was for our protection, I don't believe we were in any sort of real danger in the first place.

2 - Sure, Kerry's a democrat and they have a history of raising taxes to help social services. It's just how the ball bounces. But that doesn't have squat to do with why Bush sucks so much :P

quote:
And no I don't think it's impossible, but every past arguement I've seen about the war had the anti-war person being anti-support for our troops.


I want a copy paste example. If you can, find a post by me that has this anti-troop sentiment. The thing is we don't hate the troops. I've got a lot of respect for a guy who'll go into a situation like that. I just don't buy into that the troops in Iraq are currently defending my freedom. I don't think many other people do either.