first id like to warn you all that this is very long. im speedboaT85, and my friend is the other guy. tell me your thoughts on this debate we had. hes my friend, and i wanted to keep this debate FRIENDLY, but i think hes a stupid and closed minded person after this.


speedboaT85: allow me to explain peacefully my way of belief
speedboaT85: and please do not follow with petty insults
MSNisbetter90: alright
speedboaT85: being an atheist, is, on the whole, part of a great acceptance, accepting a reality where YOU ARE MORTAL
speedboaT85: ....
speedboaT85: theres more
MSNisbetter90: wow thats tempting
speedboaT85: wait im not done
speedboaT85: atheists are people who were never taught religion from birth usual
speedboaT85: i wasnt brought to church until i was 6
speedboaT85: you know, until i was able to think for myself in a sense
MSNisbetter90: not at 6
speedboaT85: i was still able to think about things taylor
MSNisbetter90: ok fine continue
speedboaT85: ok
speedboaT85: now
speedboaT85: also, its about this
speedboaT85: there are some people
speedboaT85: most notably teenage girls
speedboaT85: that get so caught up in THEIR reality
speedboaT85: in THEIR own little world
speedboaT85: where all that matters is their grades, what they look like, who theyre going out with, and what car theyll drive
speedboaT85: they, are alot like christians
speedboaT85: or acually
speedboaT85: just about any religious people
speedboaT85: not to be descriminate against christians, i hate all religions
speedboaT85: except buddhism
speedboaT85: which is basically just a philosophy on how to live a simple life and to be happy
speedboaT85: but thats another story, for another debate
speedboaT85: moving on
speedboaT85: religious folk tend to get caught up in their own world
speedboaT85: and i wonder sometimes
speedboaT85: what makes them so special, what makes them think humanity is so special
speedboaT85: we, earth, are just a tiny speck of dust, in a vast endless universe
speedboaT85: what makes us so significant, that we, and only we have a god, and a heaven. and a hell
MSNisbetter90: no
MSNisbetter90: its that we are here
MSNisbetter90: we dont know whats out there
speedboaT85: nothing so far taylor
MSNisbetter90: so of course we think we are "special" daniel
MSNisbetter90: what the hell else would we think
speedboaT85: .....
speedboaT85: just to me, ive considered the vastness of the universe
speedboaT85: and i feel sorry for those who get so caught up in their own society, and human culture
speedboaT85: that they seem to forget their own insignificance
speedboaT85: taylor, im about to wake you up
speedboaT85: YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL
speedboaT85: WHAT YOU DO HERE DOES NOT MATTER
MSNisbetter90: who teh [IMAGE] said I was
speedboaT85: if you died tomorrow, or if you died 60 years from now
speedboaT85: do you think it would make a difference in the world
MSNisbetter90: could
MSNisbetter90: i could cure cancer
MSNisbetter90: i could end a disease
MSNisbetter90: that would make a difference
speedboaT85: talyor, there is no fate, unless you already know how to do it. then your guess is as good as those who have been studying the disease for 20 years
MSNisbetter90: well whats stopping me form studying the disease right now
speedboaT85: which goes into why im pro-abortion
speedboaT85: nothing taylor
speedboaT85: and if you can find a cure, by all means, please do
MSNisbetter90: and then ive made a difference
speedboaT85: yes
speedboaT85: but until you do make the difference
speedboaT85: the difference is not there
MSNisbetter90: again
MSNisbetter90: not true
MSNisbetter90: in my lifetime
MSNisbetter90: whether ill be famous
MSNisbetter90: or humble
MSNisbetter90: i would have changed someone
MSNisbetter90: amde them remember me
MSNisbetter90: and whne i die
MSNisbetter90: i could have a big funeral
speedboaT85: taylor, you are insignificant
MSNisbetter90: full of people i have touched
speedboaT85: you dont matter, unless you make yourself matter
speedboaT85: if someone remembers you when you die
speedboaT85: thats all good and well
speedboaT85: but if theres nothing special about him
speedboaT85: special about you*
MSNisbetter90: god damn u are so [IMAGE]in negative
speedboaT85: then your story will not be passed on
MSNisbetter90: dude!
MSNisbetter90: what if i save a guys life
MSNisbetter90: hel rembe rhtat
MSNisbetter90: that
speedboaT85: then maybe his family will remember you
MSNisbetter90: and tell the story
speedboaT85: aye, but it wont be in the family for generations
speedboaT85: they wont gatehr round grandpa to hear the story about how taylor henderson saves his great grandson 120 years ago
MSNisbetter90: u cant say that
speedboaT85: :-MSNisbetter90: U CANT SAY ANYTHING DANIEL
MSNisbetter90: u negativity is [IMAGE]ing riduculous
MSNisbetter90: the way u view life
MSNisbetter90: is that we just here
speedboaT85: dont just call me pessimist
MSNisbetter90: we cant change anything
speedboaT85: try and read between the lines
speedboaT85: im not pessimist, im realistic
MSNisbetter90: no ur not
MSNisbetter90: daniel
MSNisbetter90: if u view life
MSNisbetter90: as just being there
MSNisbetter90: and not making a difference
MSNisbetter90: or anythinga t all
MSNisbetter90: then u really should just die
MSNisbetter90: and let people that want to make a change
MSNisbetter90: go on
MSNisbetter90: without ur negatiity
speedboaT85: taylor, i believe that no matter what lies beyond the mystery of death, life is pointless
speedboaT85: im not negative taylor
MSNisbetter90: oh my god
speedboaT85: im realistic
MSNisbetter90: life is pointless
MSNisbetter90: thats not negative
MSNisbetter90: ok daniel
speedboaT85: whats the point then taylor
speedboaT85: ask why?
MSNisbetter90: ur not realistic
MSNisbetter90: realistic is saying
MSNisbetter90: ok I may be able to make a difference
MSNisbetter90: but ill hve to work hard
speedboaT85: a difference in human society
MSNisbetter90: not "life is pointless"
speedboaT85: a difference in space, and tiem
speedboaT85: but heres the big one
speedboaT85: whats the point, of making a difference
MSNisbetter90: becuz u might help people
speedboaT85: why
speedboaT85: everyone dies anyway
MSNisbetter90: what the [IMAGE] is wrong with you man?
speedboaT85: taylor
speedboaT85: im a happy person
speedboaT85: whether you believe it or not
MSNisbetter90: u can lie you know
speedboaT85: i believe that no matter how pointless life is, im going to live it out with pure beliggerance
speedboaT85: because i am human
speedboaT85: my brain receives pleasure from playing video games
speedboaT85: so i will continue to do so, my body feels discomfort from pain
speedboaT85: so i avoid it when possible
MSNisbetter90: wow
MSNisbetter90: thats really original
speedboaT85: my body gains pleasure from sex, so il do it when possible
MSNisbetter90: hahaha
MSNisbetter90: uh huh
speedboaT85: because i am human
speedboaT85: my existance is hollow, and even tho i know that, ill continue to live it, and enjoy it to the fullest
speedboaT85: see you think differently
speedboaT85: you somehow think that a human, is any better than a flower
speedboaT85: or an animal
speedboaT85: they both live
speedboaT85: they both die
speedboaT85: they both need food
speedboaT85: and water
MSNisbetter90: but we are different from those animals
MSNisbetter90: and flowers
MSNisbetter90: we are humans
speedboaT85: a flower is pointless, but beautiful nonetheless
MSNisbetter90: we breathe we construct
MSNisbetter90: we change things
MSNisbetter90: a flower cannot
MSNisbetter90: we do things
MSNisbetter90: a animal cannot
speedboaT85: humans are animals, animals that have learned to communicate in complex ways. we are animals that have learned to think and not let instinct rule us. but despite this
speedboaT85: we are animals nonetheless
MSNisbetter90: ha
speedboaT85: but, we have created a society, that makes us forget this taylor
speedboaT85: we have created a society that conforms our minds to think that we are special, that we are different
speedboaT85: because we can think
speedboaT85: but are we really that much different than animals
speedboaT85: animals construct
speedboaT85: they build nests
MSNisbetter90: daniel
MSNisbetter90: look around you
speedboaT85: and they live only to mate.feed.kill.repeat
MSNisbetter90: this is everytihgn a human has made
MSNisbetter90: we dont build nests
MSNisbetter90: we build HOUSES
speedboaT85: houses
MSNisbetter90: we dont use twigs
speedboaT85: houeses are nests
MSNisbetter90: we use wood
speedboaT85: same thing
speedboaT85: smaller scale
MSNisbetter90: no
MSNisbetter90: a nest is a bunch of twigs
MSNisbetter90: a house has plumbing
MSNisbetter90: ac
speedboaT85: do they not both come from trees
MSNisbetter90: everything a humna needs to survive
MSNisbetter90: not bric
MSNisbetter90: k
speedboaT85: all creations of man
speedboaT85: just like animals we create, but we are more intelligent, so we create more complex things
MSNisbetter90: daniel u amke it like we have no purpose here we are nothing more than advnaced animals
MSNisbetter90: we are humans
MSNisbetter90: if we all thot like that
speedboaT85: that is my philosophy
MSNisbetter90: this would wuld be bland and unexciting
MSNisbetter90: nothign would happen
speedboaT85: untrue
MSNisbetter90: we would all grunt and eat
speedboaT85: i think like that
speedboaT85: yet, i still live amongsth our society, and fit in well
speedboaT85: you couldnt pick me out of a crowd
speedboaT85: im not naked and illiterate
speedboaT85: i dont kill things with my hands and eat their raw flesh
MSNisbetter90: but if we belive that we are nothing
MSNisbetter90: our civilization would just retreat back to the stone age
speedboaT85: taylor, we are nothing
speedboaT85: no it wouldnt
speedboaT85: because of the human urge to please itself
MSNisbetter90: my god listen to yourself
speedboaT85: i guaruntee you that many scientists would have similar philosophies to mine
MSNisbetter90: you know why
MSNisbetter90: becuz they are athiests
speedboaT85: aye
speedboaT85: because they are scientists
MSNisbetter90: what?
MSNisbetter90: that proves to me nothing
speedboaT85: taylor
MSNisbetter90: daniel
speedboaT85: does your religion teach you that animals do not have souls
speedboaT85: science teaches that we are not much different than a plant
speedboaT85: we grow, we age, we die
speedboaT85: we eat, we breathe we live
MSNisbetter90: but its whats between those age die
speedboaT85: we reproduce
MSNisbetter90: thats makes us VERY different from the plant
MSNisbetter90: no dude
MSNisbetter90: we drive cars
MSNisbetter90: we gain experience in things
MSNisbetter90: we learn things
MSNisbetter90: we teach things
speedboaT85: so do animals
MSNisbetter90: we spread wisom
speedboaT85: my dog can shake hands
speedboaT85: he learned that
MSNisbetter90: congrats
MSNisbetter90: can he construct a computer?
MSNisbetter90: can he drive a car?
speedboaT85: no, because hes not as intelligent
MSNisbetter90: can he do taxes?
MSNisbetter90: right
MSNisbetter90: we are VERY different from the dog
MSNisbetter90: and the plant
speedboaT85: taylor
speedboaT85: can a retarded person do all that?
speedboaT85: hes human
MSNisbetter90: yes but he has a brain malfunction
speedboaT85: a low IQ
MSNisbetter90: due to birth defects
MSNisbetter90: maybe the parents smoked while pregnant
MSNisbetter90: maybe alcohol
MSNisbetter90: maybe it was beaten
speedboaT85: a retard and the dog are very much alike
MSNisbetter90: wow thats nice
speedboaT85: the dog can learn
speedboaT85: the retard can to
speedboaT85: by teh same method
speedboaT85: reward them when they get it right
MSNisbetter90: but can those two make a building stand tall in the sky
MSNisbetter90: create a new sceince
speedboaT85: a dog cannot do taxes because he is physically unable
MSNisbetter90: make new technology
MSNisbetter90: right
MSNisbetter90: but we are
speedboaT85: as well as not being intelligent enough
MSNisbetter90: makes us different fcrom the dog
MSNisbetter90: difference there daniel
MSNisbetter90: are u blind
speedboaT85: you are not listening to me
speedboaT85: we are both mammals
speedboaT85: we both mate, feed, kill and repeat the cycle
MSNisbetter90: u look at life as the most summed up thing possible
MSNisbetter90: daniel if im correct
MSNisbetter90: we dont eat mate feed kill only
MSNisbetter90: we go to school
MSNisbetter90: we get educations
MSNisbetter90: we meet people
MSNisbetter90: we have feelings
MSNisbetter90: we have opinions
MSNisbetter90: we create thigns beautiful
MSNisbetter90: and things ugly
MSNisbetter90: we live our lives
MSNisbetter90: we drive cars
MSNisbetter90: we pay money for our children to go to school
MSNisbetter90: we retire
MSNisbetter90: we die old and happy (sometimes)
MSNisbetter90: we get sick
MSNisbetter90: we die
MSNisbetter90: we have a mate
MSNisbetter90: we kiss her/him
MSNisbetter90: we love her/him
MSNisbetter90: a passionate love
speedboaT85: taylor, your only talking about the mental sense
MSNisbetter90: no
MSNisbetter90: im tlakin about what happens in our lifes
MSNisbetter90: not in the dogs
MSNisbetter90: or the plants
speedboaT85: taylor
speedboaT85: education and school
speedboaT85: all creations of mankind
speedboaT85: they are not things that have always been, only to be acomplished by humans
MSNisbetter90: yes and if we were the dogs
MSNisbetter90: it would be created
MSNisbetter90: thus making a differnece
speedboaT85: dogs do not have opinions, becaus they are driven by instinct
speedboaT85: they do not have the intelligence to think
MSNisbetter90: but we do
MSNisbetter90: difference
speedboaT85: but we are still very much alike in the physical sense
speedboaT85: yes taylor theres a difference, but your trying to make things complicated
speedboaT85: when its really all quite simple
MSNisbetter90: no im not
MSNisbetter90: ur looking at it too simply
speedboaT85: of course there are differences
speedboaT85: but your not even comprehending what im trying to say
MSNisbetter90: yes daniel i have
MSNisbetter90: ur saying all we do it mate feed kill
MSNisbetter90: im saying
speedboaT85: no....
MSNisbetter90: we do MUCH more than that
speedboaT85: have you not been listening
MSNisbetter90: speedboaT85: we both mate, feed, kill and repeat the cycle
MSNisbetter90: ?
speedboaT85: i didnt say thats all we do
MSNisbetter90: we both
speedboaT85: aye
speedboaT85: we both do that
MSNisbetter90: repeat the cycle
MSNisbetter90: dont see any mention of anything else
speedboaT85: the dogs eats poo, and pisses on the floor, while the human eats chicken, and pisses in the toilet
speedboaT85: but, despite that difference
speedboaT85: we all still mate, feed, kill, and repeat that cycle of life
MSNisbetter90: daniel
MSNisbetter90: we dont have a simularity as in a dog
MSNisbetter90: except amybe that we both have eyes
MSNisbetter90: something small and irrelevant
MSNisbetter90: look i have to go
speedboaT85: taylor, i view you today, as a closed minded individual
MSNisbetter90: I really hope u grow up one day and realize what uve been saying
MSNisbetter90: good bye
MSNisbetter90 signed off at 9:33:43 PM.

I actually think your freind is right.

speedboaT85: YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL
speedboaT85: WHAT YOU DO HERE DOES NOT MATTER
MSNisbetter90: who teh said I was
speedboaT85: if you died tomorrow, or if you died 60 years from now
speedboaT85: do you think it would make a difference in the world
MSNisbetter90: could
MSNisbetter90: i could cure cancer
MSNisbetter90: i could end a disease
MSNisbetter90: that would make a difference

to say that would be to believe in fate. anyone could cure cancer, its all a matter of whos determined enough to do it.

Aerial, I believe in fate

Saying "It could" does not show belief in fate. I agree with your friend as well.

You're comparing apples to oranges here...of course human life doesn't matter in the course/span of the universe. The entire human existance is only a fraction of the greater time scale, and is even small compared to the Earths geologic time scale much less the time scale of the whole universe. So no, our actions might not be significant in terms of the whole universe...but in terms of our universe, and the human experience, they're very relevent. Instead of rambling on, I'll hit the high points...

1) "humans are animals, animals that have learned to communicate in complex ways. we are animals that have learned to think and not let instinct rule us"

If you think that we don't let instinct rule as as humans, you're sadly mistaken. Take a look around you and you'll see the human instincts played out in nearly many of society throughout history. The urge to get the most attractive mate, attractions to certain physical characteristics. The urges for shelter, for communication and touch, for stimulation, etc, etc...all of these are based from instinct, and the human animal, as it were, will never be separated from instinct.

2) "atheists are people who were never taught religion from birth usual"

Aside from needing some work on your grammar, the assumption of this statement is nearly laughable. Someone could just as easily find God or religion even if they weren't "taught religion from birth usual". Do you know how many priests or holy men lose the faith? I don't, but they certainly have a reputable education on religion, so why would they become athiest? Your logic needs work...

3) "talyor, there is no fate"

This is a pretty funny statement when you consider how often you refer to the overly predictable and practically binding nature of things like the "human urge for pleasure", as well as your many comparisons between humans and animals. It seems as though you've created an alternate fate for humanity; to follow the same routine as animals: to eat, breed, and die.

Long story short, I just briefly glanced through your arguement and I can't say I agree with you. There's a word for someone like you (and no, this isn't meant in an insulting manner...only a factual one)...you're a hedonist. Not necessarily an athiest. And you appear to be just as closed minded as your friend on the matter since neither of you appear to move from your respective opinions.

what i gather, is that i have some beliefs and opinions on the way things work in this universe, and apparently, i havent expressed them clearly enough. humans are animals whove learned to control their instincts to a certain degree. when i say that we eat. breed. and die. i know that there are millions of other things we do, but most of them center around these things. and its a cycle. its really me just trying to explain to him why im an atheist, and what makes me so sure of things. but i suppose its too complicated a matter for me to put it into words for him, or any of you to understand.

Now you're just being an ass. "Too complicated for any of us to understand?" Since when were you a professor? Got that bachelors degree in philosophy yet? No? Then stfu about this being "too complicated for us to understand". Your so called arguements for your athiesm hardly, if ever, mention the exietence of a higher power. Even Christians know they're mortal, and the fact that they might be self absorbed really means jack squat. From what I see, the only thing you're sure about is the way you see things in life...you may think you're giving an explaination, but you're only tossing out observations with little backing. The next time you debate your athiest nature, debate the existence of a higher power and not human nature. If you can't see the difference between the two then you need to do a little more thinkin' on the ol' thinkin' pot.

im an asshole now? its as if your trying to misinterperet what im saying purely to start confrontation. what i meant was that i wasnt able to word it so that you know what im talking about. i wasnt trying to call you stupid.

lol...not trying to be confrontational, I just don't like seeing people dumb down the forums by assuming what people are and are not capable of understanding. Nice sig by the way...how long do you think it'll stay up?

i took it down.

Humans and ants are the tier of social structure. We have never overcome insticts, simply worked them to create society. It's something called evolution. What about fate? Fate is an mental construct, you cannot prove nor disprove it's existance. Aerial Assualt just took the wrong way of describing his beliefs.

You would do much better as a secular humanist. Indifference goes a long way towards befriending christians, and anyways the term "Athiest" seems to get most everybody mad. That's assuming you are really in it for the long run. Most likely you retain the primary morals your parents had and you're in self denial of a religion you deeply are involved with.

Atheism = Bull[:-censored]. There HAS to be a supernatural force to have started the universe. The big bang theory is bullcrap. Even if it is true, where did the hydrogen cloud that suposedly exploded come from? Another collapsed universe is what I've been told. Where did THAT universe come from? Another cloud? Wheres that cloud come from?

It just loops. Therefore, the only answer is, it had to be divine intervention.

so an invisible man in the sky created it all seems more logical to you?

Atheism has nothing with logic and rationalism.

Atheism = "personal religion" that says that there is no God (though God's existence is unverifiable from definition, so it's pretty stupid to claim that he doesn't exist. It's just your belief that he doesn't exist)

Moreover the "Invisible man in the sky" is just your poor imagination. You could say that God is invisible monkey on a cloud and it would mean the same - that human mind is to limited to understand nature of God.

Your first statement is a touch wrong...some of the basic roots of atheistic claims are based off of logical proofs created to prove/disprove the existence of God. I'm not saying if they're correct or not...but logic does have a place within atheism. I do, however, agree with your latter statements...and in part it is claims like that which give rise to other beliefs about god (i.e. He/she/it is out there, but simply watches and doesn't act...or, he created us and left, and so on, and so forth..). We simply do not know.

Meh, this whole thing about instinct... Well, heres a piece that I've learned while reading an encyclopedia about biology: The 'superior intellect/intelligence' humans have over other animals lies in the developement of our brain. Homosapiens have the most developed brain so far, and is capable of many things, as research proved: A section dedicated to understanding language and signs. A section dedicated as a "brighter way of seeing things", as it were. That means we have basic instincts that we've inherited through our ancestral species and also a hyper-instinct that is subject to basic rules of normal instinct, but directs the animal to act in more elaborate, complicated, and sometimes efficient ways to solve things. Therefore our motives in terms of basic instincts havent really changed, its just the way our minds are capable of devising plans to execute what actions the instincts dictate.

As for the arguement about the existence of a supernatural diety of some kind or another: A theory that suggests an unprovable thing is an empty statement in the fact that it has no proof of what it claims to be true. And if the statement is empty, it doesnt necessarily mean its false, it just means its unprovable. The counter arguement that there *isnt* a God or a diety is just as empty as its counter arguement. Prove once and for all that there is no God, and you'd make world history.

To constantly argue something with no real proof with a hope of convincing a believer in the counter-arguement is like trying to catch the wind with a net.

quote:Originally posted by KelbaAtheism = Bull[:-censored]. There HAS to be a supernatural force to have started the universe. The big bang theory is bullcrap. Even if it is true, where did the hydrogen cloud that suposedly exploded come from? Another collapsed universe is what I've been told. Where did THAT universe come from? Another cloud? Wheres that cloud come from?

It just loops. Therefore, the only answer is, it had to be divine intervention.


Then where do you suppose the 'divine intervention' came from?

quote:Originally posted by AerialAssaultso an invisible man in the sky created it all seems more logical to you?


I really hate it when atheists try and use this little bit agains the creationists. If you're an athiest, and you subscibe to a belief on how the universe was started, then you in turn beleive what science has to say on the issue, right? Which means you believe in the Big Bang theory.

I'd like to point something out about this.

It is still called the Big Bang Theory. A theory is a well developed hypthosis with evidence to support it, but it is not law nor fact. We're talking basic scientific language here folks. Want to know what it's a theory? Here's a bit of dialogue.

Creationist: So how do you believe the universe was created?
Evolutionist: By the Big Bang
C: Alright... well... that may explain one spectrum... but what came before the Big Bang? What caused the big bang?
E: That would be the Big Implosion [ed: look it up]
C: Right, which is the point where everything in the universe collapsed into one singularity, correct?
E: Right.
C: Like a black hole.
E: Right.
C: Well, by your own science then you just don't know then do you?
E: Huh?
C: A singlularity is the once place known of to man where all kinomatics (physics of stuff in motion) breaks down. It no longer works. Or at least, that's what they keep saying. In actuality no one knows how a singularity actually works or what it's physics or functionality is really like. So in turn one could say you really don't know about the big implostion or frankly about the big bang
E: We know about the big bang
C: how?
E: the universe is expanding
C: That's a bit of a leap isn't it? The universe is expanding therefore it started in one spot and exploded outward?
E: Not really, it makes sense
C: Sure, but it also would make sense that some sort of negitive graviational force at the center of the universe is pushing everything apart. Or some region behond the universe is exerting a force on it, pulling it outward. You simply do not know, so stop acting like you do.

quote:Originally posted by n00bfacequote:Originally posted by KelbaAtheism = Bull[:-censored]. There HAS to be a supernatural force to have started the universe. The big bang theory is bullcrap. Even if it is true, where did the hydrogen cloud that suposedly exploded come from? Another collapsed universe is what I've been told. Where did THAT universe come from? Another cloud? Wheres that cloud come from?

It just loops. Therefore, the only answer is, it had to be divine intervention.


Then where do you suppose the 'divine intervention' came from?


To "come from something else", means that there was something before (so it exist in time), and it changed it's shape/state (so it exist in space). If God (a supernatural entity) is not limited by space nor by time, the question "where God came from" doesn't make any sense (it's like measuring distance in seconds).

It's not possible to use human logic/physics to describe/discuss about God IMO. Therefore any dicussion about God is pointless :D

In open (empty) space, there's no gravitational pull of any kind (with the exception of black holes), so in theory the universe will never quite "stop" expanding ever since the big bang happened. There was the initial powerful push that blew energy in form of matter towards all directions, and the force of the blow will gradually decay over time, but never really make a sudden *stop*. That's just a theory, though.

Science also discovered that black holes eventually "turn into" or generate matter that they had sucked in before, and reshaped it through their extreme pressure. A huge black hole or a series of lesser black holes might have caused the big implosion that would later lead into the big bang. Another theory.

The other so-called "Buddhist theory" states that the more spread out the energy gets as a result of the big bang, the more imminent will be the force to balance that spreading of energy by pulling it all back together into another big blob, creating another big bang and continuing a cycle that would never really end. So if this were true, who knows how many big bangs were there before the one that created us? Kinda cool when you think of things with that magnitude :P.

aye, it is. keep in mind by the way that i wasnt trying to convert him or anything, i was just explaining to him what i believed. i dont believe in fate, so therefore in my opinion, whether or not he'd cure cancer, is simply determined by whether or not he eventually does. there are plenty of relly smart people whove dedicated their lives to cure cancer, AIDS, the common cold...etc... but so far...nothin.

quote:Originally posted by that fuking sniperIn open (empty) space, there's no gravitational pull of any kind (with the exception of black holes)


Actually, that's not quite true. Gravity is a function of an inverse square, so while it becomes incredibly weak over distance, the force never disappears. So, basically, every object in the universe has a tiny, tiny gravtitational pull on every other object in the universe. Science fact!