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Realistic Mode Line-of-Sight
Soldat Forums - Soldat Talk - Game Improvements / Suggestions
F3nyx
November 9, 2004, 3:23 am
I'm a huge fan of Realistic Mode, especially the line-of-sight feature. For those not familiar with Realistic Mode, one of its primary deviations from normal Soldat is the player's inability to see any soldiers or bullets to which he/she has no line of sight. In other words, if there's a hill between you and me, we won't show up on each others' screens, although all terrain will be entirely visible.

While interesting and workable, this implementation has some issues:
It's often hard to tell what areas you have a line of sight to -- there might be a soldier standing on yonder patch of ground, but you can't discern whether you'd be able to see him. Or in a fight, an enemy might be just below your line of sight, but since you can't tell where your line of sight begins and ends you don't know to look for him.Though soldiers aren't visible beyond line of sight, crates are. So you can tell a soldier's walking through an area which you have no line of sight to -- you'll see a grenade or health crate suddenly disappear.It's pretty inconsistent. Why should terrain be visible, while soldiers aren't?
So, I propose that soldiers, crates, landscape objects (trees, bushes, barrels), flags, bullets, areas of open space and terrain, and everything else be ENTIRELY invisible when the player lacks a line of sight to them. Gray them out, black them out, whatever.

It would be a large change, but except for making it a bit harder for newbies to navigate the maps, this change would bring nothing but gameplay improvements, fixing all of the above problems.

Amendments, agreement? Vitriol? All are welcome.

Skate4Razors
November 9, 2004, 3:38 am
I think that's a good idea, I feel most people will hate this idea though. I would like to see the map and things fade out. I support it!

F3nyx
November 9, 2004, 3:43 am
As a clarification, I want this change ONLY IN REALISTIC MODE. I have no complaints about vision in normal Soldat. Just in case that wasn't clear...

FliesLikeABrick
November 9, 2004, 4:01 am
I don't play realistic much, but this would make sense to change.

off topic: holy sh*t f3nyx i havent seen you around in a long long time

Aquarius
November 9, 2004, 7:36 am
quote:Originally posted by F3nyx
It's pretty inconsistent. Why should terrain be visible, while soldiers aren't?

Because terrain is remembered.

And remember that "realistic" can't be 100% realistic (mostly because Soldat is 2D and 2D is not realistic. We leave in 3D space).

LazehBoi
November 9, 2004, 8:35 am
I like the idea, but I don't think older machines would. ;x

Jap_man
November 9, 2004, 11:02 am
The idea is good, though i'd rather keep realistic mode the way it is. o.O

think.tac
November 9, 2004, 12:03 pm
It's a good idea, but maybe just fixing the "dissapearing pickups" problem would be enough. I think more people would support that than would support everything out of your line of sight being totally invisible. I support both ideas though.

F3nyx
November 9, 2004, 2:31 pm
quote:Because terrain is remembered.

And remember that "realistic" can't be 100% realistic (mostly because Soldat is 2D and 2D is not realistic. We leave in 3D space).What do you mean by "terrain is remembered"? I'm guessing you mean something about the way it's displayed, but I don't really know much about that. Terrain should be kept in memory, perhaps even displayed but overlaid with black where invisible.

And it's not total realism I'm going for here, just consistency. Unless the systems for rendering soldiers and terrain are radically different, it wouldn't think it'd have that large an effect on processing.

Messiah
November 9, 2004, 2:34 pm
Good idea, but i dont play Realistic mode much ;( So meh

blackdevil0742
November 9, 2004, 2:41 pm
it's agood idea but as LazehBoi said older machines would have a big problem.

BManx2000
November 9, 2004, 7:37 pm
Then make it an option, duh :P
Anyway, some time ago I made an artist's rendering of what it would look like (minus the white lines, of course):
[IMAGE]

damnnation
November 9, 2004, 7:53 pm
hmm it looks good :D but i almost never play realistic mode

tntnik
November 9, 2004, 9:48 pm
BManx i almost complitally agree on ur *ahem* "Masterpiece" :)
the only thing is i think the lines shouldnt be that straight, and u should see space around u (infront of u i mean) a bit better, so newbs with knives wont dominate! ofcoarse the sutff behind u should not be seen, but since of ur 5 sences, with hearing, u could hear if someone is behind u, so if there is a guy behind u (not far) u should see him like he's in predator mode, so its like u hear him, but not sure. The same with anywhere near u, so a certain small space around u (a simple circle/radius will do), u can hear.

zyxstand
November 9, 2004, 11:04 pm
well i kinda like the idea but its very problematic:
it would DEFINITELY make the game play slower for the reason:

if u wanna make the terrain dissapear, the server would have to tell u what a player could and could not see and tell the computer what terrain to loead which would make the whole gameplay slower and also not too many ppl play soldat in realistic mode neways so its just a waste of time for Michal to work on this idea while there are many other better ideas to be worked on!

Omsion
November 9, 2004, 11:47 pm
I don't think this would really affect the server. It would be player side, and their computer would determine what they could and could not see. So the server only has to track player location, bullets, etc (what they normally track). If someone moves into the player's los, the player's computer would determine when the enemy would be displayed.

tntnik
November 10, 2004, 12:16 am
i think that the map disapearing, when ur not looking that way is bad, instead i think it should be shaded (darkened) like BManx showed us in his picture, because having the map disapearing everywhere all the time will make u cunfused where u r going, may even make u sick (literally)

Deleted User
November 10, 2004, 4:02 am
i don't want the terrain to disappear! but as for the shadow thingo, i sorta like it. i never play realistic, but it sounds like a decent change.

die nadel
November 10, 2004, 4:09 am
it makes sense to change it just in realistic mode, but i never play realistic so i don't care

Boer
November 10, 2004, 12:57 pm
the terrain should fade out slowly with detail vanishing rapidley like memory thats fading. And your vision must be 180* like the sweeping vision in COMANDOS, not left or right as it is now.



F3nyx
November 10, 2004, 2:40 pm
I'd be happy with shading invisible areas as BManX suggests, but I'd still prefer "invisible" terrain to be truly invisible.

papasurf31
November 10, 2004, 9:13 pm
Nice pic BMan. I also think that players not in your line of sight but moving/shooting should also be partly visible, or semitransparent. This is like how the player can hear things, such as gun shots or footsteps.

BManx2000
November 10, 2004, 10:39 pm
Well, in soldat you can already hear the gunshots and footsteps, if you use headphones that is.

N1nj@
November 10, 2004, 11:05 pm
I like it =)

but this might take some time to implement.

Liquid Metal
November 11, 2004, 8:29 am
I think it should be something like Fog of war

BManx2000
November 11, 2004, 3:40 pm
Of course it's fog of war! What did you think we were talking about?

Deleted User
November 11, 2004, 5:29 pm
I like this idea. I think it'd be a great feature to implement, maybe even as "just an option".

I guess you could just think of it as a flashlight effect, then. You can see wherever the "flashlight" shines.

It's too bad so few of the servers out there play Realistic mode and the like. All I see are plain-jane deathmatches. -_-

tntnik
November 11, 2004, 11:41 pm
yea i agree, there is little servers with realistic mods, that y im hosting one
but anyway, as someone suggested having the terrain fade out slowlly is a good idea! BUT! it will be pretty hard to do, so i think for now the shading of not visible terrain is good enough, and yes as i said, if people r running near u / flying not far / shooting (which can be heard from far) should be partly visible even if they r out of sight, depending on how close they r to u; using headfones isnt really the same thing, since its hard to triangulate where they actually are...

Boer
November 21, 2004, 1:53 pm
Like in that bad movie daredevil, you see with your ears?
Maby those behind you should look like predator-mode , invisible and you see only their jetpack or muzzleflash, faintly?

Zero Wiggles Murasame
November 22, 2004, 4:52 am
I'm not too good in realistic because of line of sight. But I'll get used to it eventually.

Unlucky 13
November 23, 2004, 8:14 am
Yeah, nice idea, and I AM a fanatic of realistic! Oh, to add to teams, you should see what a teammate sees. That would be nice!

diediedie119
December 2, 2004, 9:06 pm
nice idea
i adore realistic mode
its a realy GOOD idea


eesahe
December 2, 2004, 9:13 pm
If the thing would be done, it would be kinda easy to make a hack which disables the effect.

diediedie119
December 4, 2004, 6:25 am
yes thats true but you could complicate it by this i mean get the simple code and add useless bits of code that don't do anything that way it would be harder to hack

Deleted User
December 4, 2004, 9:21 am
Thats a GOOOOOD idea!

BMF
December 4, 2004, 4:09 pm
Come on guys, you know how much work that would take?? Look, Realistic mode is a badass mode, ok? If you are not man enough to play it, dont play it. I am so tired of people complaining about fall damage and this and that. This is realistic damn it. Don't play it if you cant handle it.

diediedie119
December 4, 2004, 9:37 pm
yes i know how much work it'll take but if more than 1 person works on it it will finish faster ok BMF

Krieg
December 9, 2004, 8:59 pm
Bmanx2000, what a 1337 example, that would rock so much, i wouldn't mind being able to see where i can see unlike in some maps where people just phase into your veiw when their right infront of you to start off with