( search forums )
The Final Evolution: Weapon Editor
Soldat Forums - Misc - The Lounge
Cold Fusion
December 6, 2004, 7:03 pm
After two and a half years of Soldat, there is one thing that still separates the community and is always a talking point. That, of course, is weapon balance. Love it or loathe it, the weapon balance has caused countless troubles over the years. You all know the story, so I won't ramble on about it, but it's tearing the game and the community apart.

THE SOLUTION - WEAPON EDITOR

Yes, the weapon editor will pretty much be the only thing that will save Soldat in the long-term. After all this time Michal, you still haven't reached a balance which is accepted by the majority of people, so I wouldn't expect that to change now.

The key to getting the balance right is for the people who play the game, us, to decide what the balance should be. Now I'll have a quick explain to those people who don't understand the concept of such an idea.

The weapon editor would be able to edit the values that determine the characteristics and strengths of each gun; speed/power of bullet/bink effect etc. Once these have been changed, they would be uploaded to the server. <Insert technical stuff here> You would then be forced to play by the weapon values that the server states. An essential thing here is that the weapon value settings can be changed quickly, so that you can have one server which can play different settings without being restarted all the time.

So, what are the positives to this idea? Firstly, people would be able to make their own balance. Obviously you have to use the servers' weapon balance, so you can't just make a superweapon and use it on every server. No, this isn't what the weapon editor does. What does this mean? It means the end to heated rants about the weapon balance. If you don't like a particular server's weapon balance, find another. It would also open up a whole new world of gameplay, but that's just a side-issue.

The only opposition to this idea is that it would split up the community. Well, the community is split enough as it is and so people are deciding not to play. With the current balance, people find that Soldat is just not fun anymore. I would like to think that after a short time, most of the players would come to a balance that the majority of people like.

MOVING ON. If you agree that the weapon editor needs to be released as soon as possible, then just post underneath. The more people who reply to this thread, the more ammunition we'll have in order to get Michal to code and release this quicker. It should be your top priority.

*Cold Fusion*

THE SUMMARY

1. CODE AND RELEASE WEAPON EDITOR
2. POST UNDERNEATH SAYING THAT IDEA IS GREAT
3. ???
4. PROFIT!

Hektik Sniper
December 6, 2004, 7:03 pm
Agreed, The weapon editor is the only thing thats going to keep people playing soldat.

Jaz
December 6, 2004, 7:07 pm
/me signs petition. Weapon balance as it is sucks total balls. Dunno what you were thinking when you came up with that power for autos, its unbelievable.

Shyo
December 6, 2004, 7:08 pm
*signs in blood*

Melba
December 6, 2004, 7:12 pm
mhm

DerF-
December 6, 2004, 7:13 pm
Actually, I think it is a quite good balance as it is now. I don't find any gun very overpowerd anymore...

Anyway, think about that 90% of all soldat players are more or less noobs. They don't know anything about the game and sure does not know anything about the weapons. The idea is good, but I think that those 90% will ruin the game totally with their own settings on their own servers.

Hektik Sniper
December 6, 2004, 7:15 pm
But then the 10% of people that are good, which imo makes up the top european clans, Would get better weapon balanced for use in leagues. We would be better off without the 900% of n00bs anyway.

Jaz
December 6, 2004, 7:23 pm
Well example of balance:

Ive used m79 for 2 years but at the moment get the same amount as kills as deaths. With minimi however which iv'e used twice I may add in my whole soldat career. I manage like 10 kills every 2-5 deaths. Now.....tell me that is balanced and you deserve a slap.

Simple solution:

Weaken autos, remove binks. For weaken autos either make them slower, less bullets or weaken there power....I would suggest weaken there power.

Advanced solution:

Weapon editor...

Overall solution

Do the simple solution for now as fast as possible. Then when the weapon editor is released we can decide if its worth it.

Tha Doggfather
December 6, 2004, 7:27 pm
/me signs

also, make the bink effect a factor you can change in the weapon editor (if it's possible).

damnnation
December 6, 2004, 7:36 pm
[IMAGE] that weapon editor i hate it'l make soldat even suck

Hektik Sniper
December 6, 2004, 7:37 pm
Try posting some reasons for being against it not just "[IMAGE] the weapon editor" Scared of losing your precious spray cannons maybe? ;p

Artex
December 6, 2004, 7:40 pm
Uhm, yea right Damnation *gets his laugh of the day*.. As soldat isn't near breaking down to the -100% now, it'll be if nothing will be taken care off about this weapon balance.

And with that, Artex signs *Remove the silly overpowered stuff now, end. Artex.*

Deleted User
December 6, 2004, 7:43 pm
Ooh second petition today.
*signs*

Jonih
December 6, 2004, 7:52 pm
Yes please.
*signs*

_Mancer_
December 6, 2004, 7:52 pm
I think we shouldn't have it, and I can explain why.

If we have the weapons editor, basically all servers will be changed. Wheres the skill in using a barret that doesnt kill in 1 hit? Or using a steyr that kills in 3 hits? The skill of the game will be scattered. In 1 server you may be god with ruger, in the next, your terrible.

I agree it might be 'fun' and 'some' servers will use it correctly to balance the weapons, but I can just forsee what will happen.

*doesnt sign*

Hektik Sniper
December 6, 2004, 7:54 pm
Well, there are plenty of servers that no one plays on now? So what would be different. Nearly all games have ways to modify them like this, and it doesnt break their communties up. The only reason that we REALLY need this is to balance it fairly for leagues. Because as it stands for now it is just NOT fair at all.

deejii
December 6, 2004, 7:55 pm
indeed *signs*

Hektik Sniper
December 6, 2004, 8:01 pm
Same thread with different replies can be found over here: http://forums.tnl.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=640

Zuup
December 6, 2004, 8:14 pm
*signs*

The Geologist
December 6, 2004, 8:37 pm
I agree with Tha Daggfather...make the bink something that can be changed. All these problems with autos would be considerably lessened with a bit less bink...leave the power as is.

On that same note, I also see the merit in Mancers post...the variability could become really annoying at times. Perhaps it would be possible for the editor to change the weapons/settings in such fashions that they become what they were in past versions? It may be better than a bunch of random settings for guns.

Noobile
December 6, 2004, 8:41 pm
/burns the petition

this is not in any way a solution, infact, imho, this will be the death of soldat. soo many weapon variants, people will never play online, because of one single thing. Trust. Trust in your weapon, trust in your abilities with that weapon, trust in your knowledge of how to operate that weapon, trust in your knowledge of how to counter any situation with that weapon. When the editor comes out, it won't be a "blanket" editor, noobserverA will have the mini-law hybrid, and noobserverB will have slow autos, that shoot spitballs. the general public won' go from server a to b knowing how to operate their choice of weapons, in any circumstance. The Corps issued me a Colt M16 A-4, now why in god's name would they give me a H&K G-36 and expect me to know how to operate it, successfully? This proorted idea of a "weapons editor" has to be the single SUTPIDEST idea I've ever heard ( no offense Michal, if you actually did suggest this, I don't remember you saying it.....).

Screw the weapons editor, don't ever code it michal, ever. Doing so will kill soldat faster than a speeding barrett bullett.


/pees on the petition's ashes

Jaakarhu
December 6, 2004, 8:45 pm
i agree with Derf-
if every server has its own settings, its totally [IMAGE]ed up.

wait for Soldat 1.2.2 :p

Deleted User
December 6, 2004, 8:50 pm
I want to see the editor released, but I really don't think a silly petition in the Lounge will get Michal to code it faster. I asked about it in 1.2.1 beta testing and he said he would get round to it soon, so just be patient.

Ymies
December 6, 2004, 8:52 pm
signage

Artex
December 6, 2004, 8:53 pm
Yea, you said it, wait for another lame version of soldat, which will have built-in-boob-antialiaser.. Yes for Weapon-Editor only available for leagues :p

Cold Fusion
December 6, 2004, 8:59 pm
quote:Originally posted by StalkyI want to see the editor released, but I really don't think a silly petition in the Lounge will get Michal to code it faster. I asked about it in 1.2.1 beta testing and he said he would get round to it soon, so just be patient.


A large amount of people aren't prepared to wait another 6 months plus for this.

---

To the people who think that each server will have a different setting:

I imagine the editor would bring about a tiny increase in the variation of servers. There would absolutely be no chance that every server would have different settings. A common balance would be found quickly, and then servers would probably adopt a <insert league server settings> that they do already now, with the addition of other servers with some play modes.

Thinking about the extremes which aren't going to happen doesn't help anyone. Also remember that there would also be the default setting servers for all those who disagree.

Obviously if there aren't many default servers it'd show that a large amount of people are in support of changing them. As I said before, there's not much point waiting for 1.2.2 for Michal to change the weapons again, because he doesn't play the game as much as we do, and there is a large difference between casually playing and playing competitive matches on a smaller scale. :)

Aquarius
December 6, 2004, 9:01 pm
I love Weapon Editor idea, but not because weapon balance. I love it because it could be a powerfull tool for mod creators.

/me signs

Ymies
December 6, 2004, 9:16 pm
hmmhmm why not to collect a group of ppl and spend time with them thinking and testing and possibly ending to a good balance ?

Aquarius
December 6, 2004, 9:29 pm
Because the group of people would be the most hated people in Soldat. Besides, "perfect balance" is not possible.

Michal
December 6, 2004, 9:52 pm
I think that weapons balance is perfect as it is. But, a weapons editor would open up many possibilities for modding and playing styles which I would really like. I hope that not every good dedicated server feels the need to change the weapons stats, so I can play with the classic feel that I'm so used to. So I guess I sign the "petition" even though weapon balance is fine now in my opinion.

peemonkey
December 6, 2004, 10:36 pm
keeeeep it how it is.

coolsi
December 6, 2004, 10:42 pm
Signed

Vijchtidoodah
December 6, 2004, 10:50 pm
It's Michal's game, not yours. He's done a wonderful job balancing the weapons and I see no need to change anything.

Kazuki
December 6, 2004, 10:56 pm
I really don't feel like arguing with most of the posters here. To make it simple, I leave Soldat's future in Michals hands completely. That means that I support his decisions and flow with whatever results are thrown.

On the other hand, I don't exactly disagree with your opinion. I think that I'll just stay neutral for now.

grand_diablo
December 6, 2004, 11:03 pm
Im against a weapon editor and FOR the simple solution of Jaz.

Like Jaakarhu and Derf mentioned, every server would start having totally different weapon powers, leading to the consequence that you wont be able to play constantly good with different weps, as they'd have different power on each server. Then again, there would be new clanwar rules set up, each league with its own wep rules + the different settings on the publics. Omg, it would screw it up.

No popular online shooter has needed a weapons editor to survive, not even CS. All we need to do is to make Soldat more popular and keep its community constantly growing, and it wont die that soon.

iLLskiLLs
December 7, 2004, 2:19 am
Umm, Let me think for a second....ok I've got my answer, NO! Why? I Like the weapon Balance. If you people cant be satisfied(which you cant) then i suggest live with it. You cant have your cake and eat it too.

I for one don't like the idea of, getting Used to different gun(s) every [IMAGE]ing time i join a dfferent server. I don't see much good coming out of this at all.

kkazican
December 7, 2004, 2:26 am
quote:Originally posted by JazWell example of balance:

Ive used m79 for 2 years but at the moment get the same amount as kills as deaths. With minimi however which iv'e used twice I may add in my whole soldat career. I manage like 10 kills every 2-5 deaths. Now.....tell me that is balanced and you deserve a slap.

Simple solution:

Weaken autos, remove binks. For weaken autos either make them slower, less bullets or weaken there power....I would suggest weaken there power.

Advanced solution:

Weapon editor...

Overall solution

Do the simple solution for now as fast as possible. Then when the weapon editor is released we can decide if its worth it.


I think it is balanced. Perhaps you just haven't realize you are naturally better with automatics than a semiautomatic 1 shot per 3 seconds weapon.

I for one have tried automatic weapons and mp5, minimi, ak-74, minigun I suck with all of those even though they are supposidly "overpowered" I still get about 4/5 with it (which is bad for me)

I am for and against this idea. On the one side we will see a lot more "fair" servers where as the noob who likes barrets and created the server that has the automatic 50 round barret and the 1 round every other gun would be fun I guess. But if we join on of the good servers in the game (about 15/250) then what will their standards of weapons be? There will be no "balanced" server because one server will favor automatics while another might favor semi automatics. then if you find a server that the weapons are somehow balanced the 10 player limit will impede on how often you actually can play on it and since the other good servers don't have the weapon stats you like you decide to get off of soldat. Skip 1 month later soldat has a community of 200 people with 300 servers and 40 players. Oh joyous day it will be when those weapon editors come out.

FliesLikeABrick
December 7, 2004, 2:31 am
k, well when this feature kills soldat, U13 will still be there because i won't be using it

Surfpup
December 7, 2004, 2:42 am
wow... i must say.. them barrets get on my fkin nerves and sp00ge with his ruger pisses me off alot, but other than that the weapons are pretty much balanced..

Chakra
December 7, 2004, 4:34 am
People are looking at the weapon editor in a negative light because they feel the servers and the community will become too randomised and flooded with unpredictability.

I think different however. It's easily believable that there'll be a fruitbowl of personally customised servers, but only the most dedicated and professional ever bother to change the default characteristics to their servers.
Otherwise, the random-factor is left to non-dedicated.

Also, as much confusion as there may seem to be, there 'will' be certain mods that stand out.
Most likely with their own websites or even their own forums. Servers will recognise this, most likely through fame and word of mouth, and host them. Everyone is not gonna try introducing some amazing weapons mod into the world, and if they do, it'll end up as ignored as most of our interface mods are. These things require 'fame' to span through a game's community, and only a few will achieve this for reasons of obvious preference.


Of course everyone may dabble with the editor, but more than likely just a few will become popular enough to be mainstream. If anything this will bring the community closer together, as we'll rejoin specific servers and see familiar faces. People will become personal with the people who host servers as discussions over the mods will take place.


Otherwise, why must you people be so paranoid? It's going to ruin the current weapon balance? don't be a idiot, there'll be plenty of default setting servers. And just because the editor is believed to be accessable, don't believe that it'll completley randomise Soldat. Your paranoia is making you naive.

*signs*

frogboy
December 7, 2004, 4:53 am
Signed.

Deleted User
December 7, 2004, 6:15 am
Weapon editor = bad idea
Well currently weapon balance is good.
And as meny dudes said that will be totaly randomness... if some one don't like abouht one weapon he will make it worst on hes own server... and that will make lots of troubles IF every weapon is difrent in every server there are not point in training... and i don't belive there will be lots of "default settings"

And I think Micheal is best balancer what we can get he is maked balances for this game to every version. Why some one here think he can make better balance? (what is better balance?)

And That I want weapon editor will kill soldat not help it grow when new dude come play he play first on some server then he change and change... then after few servers he notice there aren't same weapons. that only make that new guy think this sucks and he quit after he even start.
-Kouleman has spoken

m00`
December 7, 2004, 8:35 am
signed

coolsi
December 7, 2004, 9:12 am
quote:Originally posted by ChakraPeople are looking at the weapon editor in a negative light because they feel the servers and the community will become too randomised and flooded with unpredictability.

I think different however. It's easily believable that there'll be a fruitbowl of personally customised servers, but only the most dedicated and professional ever bother to change the default characteristics to their servers.
Otherwise, the random-factor is left to non-dedicated.

Also, as much confusion as there may seem to be, there 'will' be certain mods that stand out.
Most likely with their own websites or even their own forums. Servers will recognise this, most likely through fame and word of mouth, and host them. Everyone is not gonna try introducing some amazing weapons mod into the world, and if they do, it'll end up as ignored as most of our interface mods are. These things require 'fame' to span through a game's community, and only a few will achieve this for reasons of obvious preference.


Of course everyone may dabble with the editor, but more than likely just a few will become popular enough to be mainstream. If anything this will bring the community closer together, as we'll rejoin specific servers and see familiar faces. People will become personal with the people who host servers as discussions over the mods will take place.


Otherwise, why must you people be so paranoid? It's going to ruin the current weapon balance? don't be a idiot, there'll be plenty of default setting servers. And just because the editor is believed to be accessable, don't believe that it'll completley randomise Soldat. Your paranoia is making you naive.

*signs*

You took the words right out of my mouth...

flab
December 7, 2004, 10:31 am
i dont't think it will solve(/change) everything (/anything), but i'll sign anyway ;\

Chakra
December 7, 2004, 10:45 am
Oh no, poor me, i'm going to join a server with some [IMAGE]ed up mod where miniguns kill in one shot and barret does 1/10th damage. I only use one or two guns and they'll feel really different all the time 'cos of so many stupid mods and i've trained for years with them. Pleaseeee don't release the weapons editor. *Whimper*

Don't be scared children. Tell us why you think there won't be any default servers, and why every server is going to use some fruity custom mod of their own. Do you think old michal would be so daft as to not implement the name of the mod in use on the lobby?


----Server-----------------Players-----Map------ping--------Mode-----------------Mod------------------Server
LaughingLlama's CTF___12/20___ctf_b2b__125______CTF___N00bface's -10% autos 1.1__T1
[BAD] Server__________9/20____ctf_laos__58______CTF___Fragbait 1.1.5 mode 1.0____T1
Ultimate 13___________8/16____ctf_kampf 110____CTF_________-none-________________T1


..isn't it nice to look at? Now that we can all play what we want, and have the option to try infinite variations?

SuperKill
December 7, 2004, 12:10 pm
this could work with hard planning. i dont care playing on diffrent settings on diffrent servers. aslong as there's a "default" setting that most passworded servers\leagues will use, i'm fine with that.

El_Mariachi
December 7, 2004, 12:55 pm
U have my axe... err signature


KnOt
December 7, 2004, 2:02 pm
Quit whining noobs ;¬)

I did make a thread against the waapons editor a while back.. Because of the reasons derf mentioned, and more.. My opinion stays the same..

-Edit- OMG SUPERKILL STOELED MY AVATAR!!!

DeMonIc
December 7, 2004, 4:39 pm
Yeah, sure, there would be a few dedicated servers with cool weapon modes.But it [the weapon editor] will most likely turn the current public hell situation into somethin far worse than imaginable.So you people, whom sheltered yourselfes under the safe iron wings of the dedicated private servers, come out, stand under the sun, look around thee, and speak judgement over the common servers afterwards you played them and seen them: don't damn them without a trial.

Aquarius
December 7, 2004, 5:06 pm
God I hate people who are afraid of changes.
Remember that the people are making servers. If all servers would have different weapons, it would meant that people _want_ different settings.

DeMonIc
December 7, 2004, 5:38 pm
And a lot of people want vehicels in the game aswell.

Hektik Sniper
December 7, 2004, 5:54 pm
quote:Originally posted by AquariusGod I hate people who are afraid of changes.
Remember that the people are making servers. If all servers would have different weapons, it would meant that people _want_ different settings.


Exactly! Variety is GOOD!

SuperKill
December 7, 2004, 6:48 pm
quote:Originally posted by KnOt-Edit- OMG SUPERKILL STOELED MY AVATAR!!!

STFU! dont you DARE to take credits for that masterpiece.

Ok
December 7, 2004, 7:13 pm
Agrees *Sings twice*

Ok
December 7, 2004, 7:15 pm
Agrees *Sings twice* *Kiss and hugs Cold fusion*
Comment: bink effect should stay on the 1 shooters... but only on them (as it was planned in the first place).

now for my spammage:
you are all talking about publics server.
as if the soldat fun comes from them.
my fun comes from playing on server with ppl i know. on server we make or own. and the rest CAME from clan wars! wich brought the stratagy part and communicating with your mates.
going into publics was always my last option and i'm sure u prefer playing with your friends as well! there is NO doubt the weapons editor will help leagues! u can just look at the settings of that league and decide if u wanna join it.
and in that league u will not find any "lamers" to your taste.
Furthermore i gotta add that after reading this whole thread .
i can say this, i play with every weapon. i like veriety! i'm not the best with any of them. but i am good with all of them.
so if i go into a public where some n00bs made half the weapons weak as hell, ofcourse i can always leave and go to another server. but u ppl insisnt on coming in servers u dont like. as if u come into servers with only barret enabled now. BUT if u do insist just use the weapons that are good in that server.
i know for sure that a good player can be good with any weapons. aim can be gained very fast. its a matter of soldat wisdom that make the difference betwin a smart player and a good aimer.
in short! if u dont like a server dont go into it! just like u wouldnt now!
ONLY now u can know exactly what u will find before u even go in there. if u feel thats not good i guess u should stop making yourself suffer in server u dont like

bucky_brad
December 7, 2004, 7:36 pm
*signs*

kkazican
December 8, 2004, 12:10 am
quote:Originally posted by AquariusGod I hate people who are afraid of changes.
Remember that the people are making servers. If all servers would have different weapons, it would meant that people _want_ different settings.


Change is bad <--- taken directly from the Hersheys' Milk Chocolate comercial and if you think Hersheys is wrong then you can go to hell!

Jello
December 8, 2004, 2:45 am
I must side with DeMonIc on this one...
The hell that is public servers will become a festering cesspool of crazy-ass mods made by some noob who wants a minigun that shoots knifes. I'm sure there will be a few servers that remain fairly faithful to the old Soldat, but it seems to me like they would be near constantly full. I have very limited access to private servers, so public is pretty much all I've got. Don't ruin it just because you like to whine about weapons balances.

Bugs Revenge
December 8, 2004, 11:43 am
quote:Originally posted by JazWell example of balance:

Ive used m79 for 2 years but at the moment get the same amount as kills as deaths. With minimi however which iv'e used twice I may add in my whole soldat career. I manage like 10 kills every 2-5 deaths. Now.....tell me that is balanced and you deserve a slap.

Simple solution:

Weaken autos, remove binks. For weaken autos either make them slower, less bullets or weaken there power....I would suggest weaken there power.

Advanced solution:

Weapon editor...

Overall solution

Do the simple solution for now as fast as possible. Then when the weapon editor is released we can decide if its worth it.

absolutly agreed..!
Jaz for the Soldat's leadership ^-^

Taxista
December 8, 2004, 1:58 pm
Well i do not agree with that because of course old timers can play only with their friends and in clan wars, but news players dont have that. they have to play in public servers.
And to start with weapons different in many server that they would be its a bit hard.
Sorry but i think u are just thinking in u, because ppl will put balance, even in leagues, with their taste. And there are few leagues now, if u have to choose "i dont like that weapons balance" u wont play in any league.
Let Michal do the changes, sometime will be good.

[S][K]Taxi

Will
December 8, 2004, 2:04 pm
if it wasnt possible to change the original guns and just make new ones that would be better, more of a weapon creator than editor.

Hektik Sniper
December 8, 2004, 2:23 pm
quote:[i]
Let Michal do the changes, sometime will be good.


No offense or anything to Michal, but he has had 3 years to balance it, and it still isnt right. Its time to let the community take over and do it right.

Jaz
December 8, 2004, 2:49 pm
quote:Originally posted by Bugs Revengequote:Originally posted by JazWell example of balance:

Ive used m79 for 2 years but at the moment get the same amount as kills as deaths. With minimi however which iv'e used twice I may add in my whole soldat career. I manage like 10 kills every 2-5 deaths. Now.....tell me that is balanced and you deserve a slap.

Simple solution:

Weaken autos, remove binks. For weaken autos either make them slower, less bullets or weaken there power....I would suggest weaken there power.

Advanced solution:

Weapon editor...

Overall solution

Do the simple solution for now as fast as possible. Then when the weapon editor is released we can decide if its worth it.

absolutly agreed..!
Jaz for the Soldat's leadership ^-^


I second that.

DeMonIc
December 8, 2004, 4:39 pm
^
|
Well I don't.Removing the bink would bring back 1.2.0.
Soldat ain't ready for the weapons editor yet...I mean, there are a lot of players, who are not part of the soldat forums...they are the majority.The weapon editor would screw their chances of becoming good players for good.As for the weapon balance...Michal is doing what the community expects from him.

Everyone, please, try and think outside of your box...think about others.Making soldat Private heaven wouldn't solve any weapon balance problem.

Hektik Sniper
December 8, 2004, 6:24 pm
Soldat doesnt need skill as it is, So the weapon editor wont hurt that.

Deleted User
December 8, 2004, 6:39 pm
hmmmm... I don't know... I will not sign now...

DeMonIc
December 8, 2004, 6:52 pm
Maybe soldat doesn't need skill..but then, why can't a player who played for 2 days kill you Hektik?Because you have more experience of the weapons and the game itself.If every server has different weapons, it will become impossible for the majority of the players to become experienced...

Chakra
December 8, 2004, 9:52 pm
No it won't.

What on earth is making you believe that every server is going to be full of madness with extreme differences? Please, honestly ask people what they would do with a weapons editor (outside of making a interface mod to mix with it). I sincerely doubt many public non-dedicated servers would even use modified weapons. There will always be a standard to work around, and 'mastery of weapons' will not be impossible or made redundant.




..christ it just came to me. Look at all the other games with mods of their own.

What's stopping Michal implementing a feature where you install a mod into your Soldat, and then having the lobby server only find others with the same mod? Uninstall it and your left with standard servers only. Just like Half Life, or whatever you kids play these days..

Ok
December 9, 2004, 3:58 am
quote:Originally posted by DeMonIc^
|
Well I don't.Removing the bink would bring back 1.2.0.
Soldat ain't ready for the weapons editor yet...I mean, there are a lot of players, who are not part of the soldat forums...they are the majority.The weapon editor would screw their chances of becoming good players for good.As for the weapon balance...Michal is doing what the community expects from him.

Everyone, please, try and think outside of your box...think about others.Making soldat Private heaven wouldn't solve any weapon balance problem.


WELL DUH!
i am not playing this game for you!
i am playing it for me!
do campers think of me when they camp? do sprayers think of me when they spray? do any of those think about how they are abusing overpowered weapons and ruining my fun just because they want to WIN!
no! they dont! sure! i can pwn their ass if i camp back! or spray back! or camp on sprayer and so on..
but i refuse to go so low! i like to fight! not to hide and shot. or shoot and run. i dont play to WIN! its just a goal! meant to have a meaning. i play for the intese.. and andrenalin the game creates. dieing without seeing my opponent creates no andrenalin for me! and i'[m sure not for that who killed me!
so i say screw u! u want to spray? u like this version? ok! have fun! play in leagues U like. where there are overpowered weapons u can abuse and feel neat when u win.
i will go to leagues with balanced weapons! and i can tell u that! there will be leagues like that! because funny enough we are smarter in soldat issues then michal! since i started playing this game michal just kept making weapons stronger and stronger! u dont add power to an unbalanced situation! u REDUCE power from the stronger one.
ppl complained about barret being overpowered. so he went and made almost all the other weapons stronger. !! i mean WTF? why not make the problematic weapon just weaker! what a twisted thinking!
there will always be players who will prefer the overpowered weapon and will abuse it JUST to win.
and those players will always complain when they dont get an overpowered weapon. and u can clearly see it because almost ALL the former barretards became sprayers now! a whole clan of barret campers i know turned to sprayers. just like that.

and when i ask ppl why did they change to an auto when i never saw them playing with just ak or just styre before these are the answeres i got from 2 well known players:
1- "everyone likes an easy kill"
2- "i changed to an auto when i couldnt do any good with other weapons"

in short: "i suck, no matter i'll just spray and pwn!"
thats is not what any game is about! games are about challaging u! and u getting better with it in time. making it more interesting and reaveling new ways of playing it.
if u just spray.. or just camp. u will just win!
so if u guys dont want the wep editor just because u like pwning without practicing and actualy be good! then screw u! you are the ones should be thinking of others.. not ME! cause i inspire for even and balance. u inspire to make this game EASY for u.

BadmB
December 9, 2004, 9:01 am
Hye Cold Fusion the weapon editor is a great! but do you have the link for download the editor???

BadmB......ASta La Vista...lol

Will
December 9, 2004, 11:50 am
erm.... there isnt a weapon editor yet.... n00b.

anyway

does it matter that the weapons arent balanced? look at half life 1 for example, they werent balanced but it was an amazing game.

Hektik Sniper
December 9, 2004, 12:51 pm
Half Life 1 was mainly aimed at Single Player. Soldat isnt. HL1 Didnt have big leagues that rely on the game being balanced. Soldat Does.

Toumaz
December 9, 2004, 1:41 pm
/me signs

josheat
December 9, 2004, 1:53 pm
hmmm, i think that the only gun that are over balanced, are the deagles. In every game i always get owned by em. I dont care about people using the barret anymore, because 50% of the time you can own them anyway.
They are absaloute maulers in close range, and decent in the long range. It gets quite annoying.

Liber_Lupus
December 9, 2004, 2:00 pm
dont play it then. I play with de's because its pure fun for me. I don't care for owning other players, i really suck now, but i still have a good time with de. I think it's unnecessary.

Meandor
December 9, 2004, 2:15 pm
barret

DeMonIc
December 9, 2004, 3:16 pm
quote:What's stopping Michal implementing a feature where you install a mod into your Soldat, and then having the lobby server only find others with the same mod? Uninstall it and your left with standard servers only. Just like Half Life, or whatever you kids play these days..
Okay, point taken.But wouldn't that make soldat a little bit..scrambled?I mean, soldat doesn't have as many players as Hl does...

Chakra
December 9, 2004, 4:21 pm
no not really. We're a very tight-knit community, so what will most likely happen, if such a feature like the one you quoted happened, would that a very few select mods would dominate and become most popular (because thats where most others would be playing).

Of course, the mod may be downloadable from the server itself, which although handy, would be a bit daft; a prerequisite introduction to what the mod provides is necessary for the gamer.

Really it's not the weapons editor that could be at fault, but how mods are actually introduced into the game. We simply don't know.

Ok
December 10, 2004, 3:30 am
quote:Originally posted by josheathmmm, i think that the only gun that are over balanced, are the deagles. In every game i always get owned by em. I dont care about people using the barret anymore, because 50% of the time you can own them anyway.
They are absaloute maulers in close range, and decent in the long range. It gets quite annoying.


you gotta be kidding me! :S

grand_diablo
December 10, 2004, 3:08 pm
I can partially agree with Chakras opinion, but I think the Soldat community is still too small to be split into groups playing different "main mods", even if there are only a few. And who can guarantee that it will not end up in total server settings chaos? I think a weapon's editor would be a too risky invention at the moment, we should think about this again, when Soldat has become more popular, imho.

Since there are also multiplayer shooters, that "died" because of "overmodding". They didnt survive long enough for some main mods to be left (dun have names though).

At first we need to make Soldat, and some of its game modes more popular. The main gamemode is CTF with a huge mass of servers, compared to the rest. We can find at least some DM servers (if we count all at once and not the different DM modes), but almost no good Infiltration servers. And releasing a weapon's editor now would cause an even worse splitup, and I dont think Soldat would yet survive the time it takes to make the players choose their main mods.

Chakra
December 10, 2004, 4:28 pm
as an entire community? No it wouldn't survive. It would instead invent splinter communities.

I don't think that's an entirely bad thing though... 50 or so people at the very least per decent mod... if you've ever been in a clan you enjoy being with, I imagine it to be something akin to that on a larger scale. I prefer playing with friends and people I know a little to just publics.

And lets not forget the modding capabilities as a whole. Imagine those numerous Star Wars interfaces with real lasers, counterstrike mods with true-to-game weapons, and so on.

DeMonIc
December 10, 2004, 5:47 pm
We cannot predict the future, but one thing is for sure: the weapons editor will change soldat forever.A lot of new mods will come, and there will be an age of chaos, which will last for 1 version or so...and what comes after that, not even my crystal ball can tell ;)
Until we can't precisely describe every aspect of the editor, all discussions about it are in vain.We are just crawling in the darkness now.

mar77a
December 10, 2004, 6:01 pm
quote:Originally posted by Noobile/burns the petition

this is not in any way a solution, infact, imho, this will be the death of soldat. soo many weapon variants, people will never play online, because of one single thing. Trust. Trust in your weapon, trust in your abilities with that weapon, trust in your knowledge of how to operate that weapon, trust in your knowledge of how to counter any situation with that weapon. When the editor comes out, it won't be a "blanket" editor, noobserverA will have the mini-law hybrid, and noobserverB will have slow autos, that shoot spitballs. the general public won' go from server a to b knowing how to operate their choice of weapons, in any circumstance. The Corps issued me a Colt M16 A-4, now why in god's name would they give me a H&K G-36 and expect me to know how to operate it, successfully? This proorted idea of a "weapons editor" has to be the single SUTPIDEST idea I've ever heard ( no offense Michal, if you actually did suggest this, I don't remember you saying it.....).

Screw the weapons editor, don't ever code it michal, ever. Doing so will kill soldat faster than a speeding barrett bullett.


/pees on the petition's ashes


agree

grand_diablo
December 10, 2004, 6:06 pm
quote:Originally posted by DeMonIcWe cannot predict the future, but one thing is for sure: the weapons editor will change soldat forever.A lot of new mods will come, and there will be an age of chaos, which will last for 1 version or so...and what comes after that, not even my crystal ball can tell ;)
Until we can't precisely describe every aspect of the editor, all discussions about it are in vain.We are just crawling in the darkness now.


Youre right, demonic, but the bigger the community is, the bigger is also the chance for the game to survive this "Age of chaos".

Deleted User
December 10, 2004, 8:28 pm
Signed.

Unlucky 13
December 10, 2004, 10:22 pm
have no idea if said in last four pages/start post (in a rush) but the better the weapon power, the worse the bink effect/speed.
SIGNED
-Unlucky 13

Hanayo
December 11, 2004, 2:58 am
I want that weapon editor, but not for the public!
I dont like the idea of a splitted soldat community playing different settings/mods. But it would be cool if the community could influence the weapon settings in a direct way (indirect = influencing michal ;O). That means beta testers should be able to test new settings without michal (maybe a special version with external weapon settings or whatever)... and when they found a conclusion they should be able to make it public (a new version of weapon settings)...

-> no chaos
-> better settings for all

;o

MercyM
December 11, 2004, 10:04 am
Signed in

DeMonIc
December 11, 2004, 12:19 pm
quote:Originally posted by HanayoI want that weapon editor, but not for the public!
I dont like the idea of a splitted soldat community playing different settings/mods. But it would be cool if the community could influence the weapon settings in a direct way (indirect = influencing michal ;O). That means beta testers should be able to test new settings without michal (maybe a special version with external weapon settings or whatever)... and when they found a conclusion they should be able to make it public (a new version of weapon settings)...

-> no chaos
-> better settings for all

;o


I think you trust us beta testers way too much.What if it's leaked?That would be worse than realising it to public.

blackdevil0742
December 11, 2004, 5:43 pm
aahhh...the weapon editor

FragBait
December 12, 2004, 5:36 pm
I agree with derf and Jaakarhu.. If you do not like the current balance, you think it ruins the game, then simply stop playing.. As you would do with any other game.
This sounds to me too much like the days of whining about Barret, and the days in 1.05b when people used repeater, to make a Barret or M79 shoot like an auto.
Accept the game as it is, or stop playing..

Chakra
December 12, 2004, 5:50 pm
I imagine Soldat seems balanced for remarkably good auto users like them.

Why just accept something the way it is though?.. it seems clear by the very history of topics like these that at least or more than half the people have some kind of qualm with the balance.

Jaz
December 12, 2004, 6:04 pm
Obviously the auto abusers will love soldat just now because they completely cancel out other weapons now for someone who has played the game a mere week doesn't need skill to own someone with an auto.

DeMonIc
December 12, 2004, 6:25 pm
Heh..those who were loyal to the autos in the last version finally got their rewards..this version is theirs.And I highly doubt that there will be a time when everyone shuts up about the weapon balance.

Ok
December 13, 2004, 5:07 am
ofcourse no one will shut up!!
this game is being ballanced by someone who doesnt even know the community. i have no idea what are his plans for this game.
i honestly dont know why he keeps changing it and changing it :as much as i see it the whining only got wrose!
cant he learn from expirience?
it will never be close to good.

Fragbait as for u.. if u think i stay because of the game. u r wrong.
i have been playing this game for almost erm.. 2 years.. (OMG!)
i had so much fun once upon a time. even in the times of barret campers.
because u could be fooled. and overcome.
this auto sprayage cannont be overcome since they dont at u! they shoot at the map (and u r in it) u cannot escape it. only in a few maps.
so why? honestly! why do we stay? why do chakra whine but still tries to change? why do I whine and still play?
i'll tell you why my dear nerrow minded friend. because i Like the way this game is organized.
i have my "friends" on the net. i have the ppl i like playing with. there are league i know and love. there are clans i know and love.
i'm not a huge gamer. i have 2 game i'm playing. both are very old.
soldat is fun for me not because of the game itself alone. because of the talking. the laughs. the teamplay.
so i try to keep the game fun for me. and i'm sure this is why all of uf whiners still play it.
the bink effecting on all weapons happened because barretards whined about the bink, so they said: if we're [IMAGE] all of them!
cause ofcoruse they dont mind changing to an auto insted of barret. i mind! i dont like usign overpowered weapons. not all of the time :and this is effecting even the clans i like playing with! i've been sprayed by clans i once adored.
its saddens me. and i wish to improve it. so excuse me for being hostile. but mind your own buisness. u didnt whine about 1.2. and i want it back. so lets me whine about 1.2.1 and stop this hypocratic attempts to sound neutral.. neutral ppl dont comment. they seat aside.
and as i am talking to fragbait i am talking to all of you out there who tell us to stop whining.
as much as u say : stop playing. i can tell you : stop reading.

Vijchtidoodah
December 13, 2004, 6:07 am
quote:i honestly dont know why he keeps changing it and changing it :as much as i see it the whining only got wrose!

You don't think that you may have answered your own question in the exact same sentence? People ask for changes (not whine, mind you, I have, to this day, never seen anyone whine about it) and Michal responds by mixing the requests of the people with his own intuition.
And as for that crap about not knowing the community, why do you think that he reads and responds to people's posts on this forum?

palloco
December 13, 2004, 11:23 am
Vijchtidoodah, dont care too much on Ok's words, he lives in his own world, and at this moment the only existing thread of these forums is this one.

Ok
December 13, 2004, 11:46 pm
very productive palloco as usual.
i really dont think it matters what he does inorder to community.
i look at the results.
the results are: the commuinity is being hurt by the new versions. most of them do not like it.
those who do like are those who inspire mostly to win. the one who dont like it are the ones who inspire to have fun.
those who inspire to win will not stick to this game much, since winning is not a motive for a long lasting relasionship.
therefor michal is hurting the loyal users of this game. and motivating players to play just to win.
that is a direct result to him not knowing the commuinty.
maybe he should go into leagues? and see what goes on there? this game is basing itself on leagues and orginized games.
this forum is being based on opinion from alot of player who play 1/3 then what i do.
and know 1/3 about this game then what i do.
i have no interest in this forum. only this thread, since this one is concerning me directly.

btw let me give u an example of how you improve rules in order to improve the game:
Soccer: if u go some years back. dunno how much exactly but in soccer it was allowed to pass the ball back to your goal keeper and he could pick it up in his hands.
this option was abused alot by teams who were in the lead and just wanted to waste time and escape hard situation in an easy way.
so they changed the rules and did not allow it anymore. today its NOT allowed. u can pass the ball to your goal keeper by foot but he cant use his hands to pick it up. so an attacker can still presure him.

this is how u improve a game. u look at the ways ppl abuse this game to stop from a game to develope nicely.
u can just compare it the former barret who was used to camp on players and made the game dole. and to the current autos who are used to spray and defend once u capped once and got the lead. if he would have played in leagues or atleast spactated some games. he would see how is this being abused. and find a way of his own to fix it. without every idiot in here influening his thoughts. i'm pretty sure he's smart enough to work out a way of his own.(i hope so anyways)
but apperently he doesnt bother. he prefer chosing some ppl he rely on and he mixed. and as u can see he did it wrong. isnt it time for a change in how he decides???
either that. or just get the damn weapons editor <_<
so everyone will get what they like.




Vijchtidoodah
December 13, 2004, 11:49 pm
Ok, can you just summarize your posts instead of writing all of that? Because I really don't want to read so much at once, especially when your grammar is that bad.

DeMonIc
December 14, 2004, 7:14 am
Ok, you fail to realize the true effects of the weapon editor.Try thinking outside of your little box.

palloco
December 14, 2004, 1:23 pm
How could someone know anything about community whne he stated he never plays in public severs nor he reads soldatforums?

frogboy
December 14, 2004, 1:26 pm
quote:Originally posted by VijchtidoodahOk, can you just summarize your posts instead of writing all of that? Because I really don't want to read so much at once, especially when your grammar is that bad.


It's probably about a paragraph, it's just Ok is a bit overzealous with his use of the enter key.

ddzNappy84
December 15, 2004, 12:31 am
If anything make things balanced, quicker rate of fire, weaker bullets, Make it so slower the bullet, more powerful, more powerful = slower reload rate.

If you had that kinda stuff, then I would totally sign it :)

iLLskiLLs
December 15, 2004, 12:58 am
Owell, it's not your game. How can you demand the developer of soldat(or any developer for any game) To let you Decide whats balanced and whatnot? I realise this is much smaller community then most multiplayer shooters, but I don't believe I have ever came across people demanding the future of the weapons be up to them and not the sole creator.

If the weapon balance was left in someone elses hands, that would make it your weapon balence and not soldats.

LazehBoi
December 15, 2004, 1:07 am
I don't want a weapon editor. Not saying that it'll suck, but i'm not looking forward to it.

Cookie.
December 15, 2004, 3:52 am
i want it mmm i could have a golden gun server 1 shot kills :OOOOO minigun rules the day! lol

LazehBoi
December 15, 2004, 7:24 am
I do admit that making the minigun totally weak, disabling everything else (including medkits and grenades) would be pretty awesome.

Dark_Noddy
December 16, 2004, 10:09 am
*Signed*

Ok
December 16, 2004, 1:15 pm
news flash.. my community is NOT your community..
incase u havent notice there are different communities in soldat even now.
btw i do play in publics. thats all i do now and days. its alot better then clan wars! less mass spraying. i actually see players use ruger and spas in publics.
the weapons editor will be GREAT for me and for MY commuinity.
you ppl say you are affraid it will devide the community and you will have less publics to play on. but when someone "whines" about this game you tell him to stop playing at all :)
i dont want to play with the sprayers or the campers. but i do like to play vs autos and even barrets (for veriety) but whenever someone uses it now, it creates an advantage for him. so u CANT get veriety + balance ingames now.. that limits the fun. even cancelign it totaly sometimes.

P.s:
if you dont like my grammer. dont read. if u dont like what i write. AGAIN dont read.
if it botheres u that much. JUST dont pay attention. if u enjoy whining about my posts. please do it on privates. if you're looking for some attention and the feeling you are "cool", please find somewhere else to do it.
i dont post to flame. i post to encourage the weapons editor because i think it will be good.
my grammer and the lenght of my posts have nothing to do with Soldat. ty :)

Cookie.
December 17, 2004, 12:39 am
"my community is NOT your community.."
oh yea well my community could beat the crap out of your community so blahhhh :PPPPPPPPP

Ok
December 17, 2004, 4:44 am
LOL :) your community probably SPRAY! :P ppppfttttt

Marine
December 17, 2004, 5:32 am
Definitely a no-no. I'd say a weapons editor would only be good if there were a dozen or so dedicated servers with the default weapons set. "Official" servers with round the clock admins online to monitor.

I think it'd sure be cool to balance out some weapons I think are to weak or to strong.

But.....

Weapons editor will be the death of Soldat.

The weapon balance is fine. If you don't like Soldat, like I, or anyone else, really gives a [IMAGE] on my favorite server.

Actually, on second thought, its not the weapons editor that will be the death of Soldat, its all the whiners like you guys.

Chakra
December 17, 2004, 6:07 am
..do you even read? what the [IMAGE] is with everyone thinking every little thing is going to be the death of soldat, or ruining soldat's spirit, or splitting the community into little pieces. You guys watch too much bloody TV!

ReDevil
December 17, 2004, 8:44 am
/me signs petition \o/

LazehBoi
December 17, 2004, 11:19 am
I guess it's a huge gamble if this thing is actually made. I think if theres a beta test for it, it should be tested for a very long amount of time.



...How and why was this reply posted twice?

mipit
December 18, 2004, 3:50 am
yess! we need that weapon edditor! *loads 4 tons of gunpowder into topic* is that enough i wanna shoot it!

Marine
December 18, 2004, 4:29 am
quote:Originally posted by Chakra..do you even read? what the [IMAGE] is with everyone thinking every little thing is going to be the death of soldat, or ruining soldat's spirit, or splitting the community into little pieces. You guys watch too much bloody TV!


Read Noobile's post, first page.

Chakra
December 18, 2004, 5:45 am
I don't see that post being valid if all this paranoia that every single god damn server is going to be a hellhole of unfamiliarity.

Theres certain ways to impliment such a tool into a game, and none of us have any clue how the weapons editor is to be introduced. Only then will we know the potential impact it'll have on Soldat. ALRIGHT?

Ok
December 18, 2004, 7:33 am
jee chaky you're really taking it too hard :)
the weapons editor will for sure create alot of server with different settings IN THE BEGINING.
its bound to happen. just here u can see ppl getting excited out of minigun with barret ability.
i dont think they realize it means EVERYONE can use it :)
so its not like they'll be the only ones killing by the dozen!
but they WILL realize it after they play. and with time everything will be setteled.
i am SURE the "soldat comunity" will just be dvided more clearly.
like the barret lovers will play with other barret lovers. and auto sprayers will play with other auto sprayers. and good old fashion soldatiers will just bring back 1.1.5 with a lil reduction in barrret accuracy (wich balances everything perfectly to my opinion).
and there for everyone will be happy! you will hear no whine Marin.. if u dont like whiners. then u really should want the weapons editor! becasuse no one will whine after it, think about it. how can u whine if u chose to except a certin weapons interface in some league or server :)
the comment : "if you dont like it, get it" will be much more usefull.

DeMonIc
December 18, 2004, 11:42 am
As I scavanged the information, soldat will have it's default weapon settings, and the weapon editor can make new weapons, or edit the old ones.Judging by that I think it'll be an external tool.Now, that narrows it down a bit..seeing as not everyone makes maps or interfaces, not everyone will make weapons, so public servers won't go down the drain, atleast not yet.
If it will be an internal tool, that means most probably every Soldier will make his own little weapons...publics would be doomed.
Anyway, I'm sure some members of the community would use it to make balance-edits, or total conversions.These probably will be free to download, right here on the forums, so we can use decent weapon settings.
Whatever will happen, the only way to avoid the full screwage of soldat gaming, would be that filters show the weapon settings, or they'd show servers with your settings.

Deleted User
December 21, 2004, 10:12 pm
Im neutral, I dont beleive we need it for everyone easy use. I feel that there as good as it can get at the moment.
I think that some of you only want it becuase the only thing that stops you from totally pwning a server with your m79 or barret overusage is pissing you off so much, like an ak for example. And giving you a weapons editor will just make the ak powerless (not in that server but in your own or with bots for that matter)
If you want to change the weapon ballance, make a mod. As chakra said, only a few mods will become mainstream, so alot of crap superweapon editing or pointless binking will not be done.

In summary, only change the weapon balance for mods, not widespread use. Im not all for people changing weaps just becuase the weapon they use all the time gets taken out by someone with a different weapon.


systemfeind
December 22, 2004, 2:00 pm
i would hate it because i dont want to have different weapons on every different server like said before.

and think of leagues. who has the right to make official league weapon stats? and if you dont like the weapon stats which have to be played in official wars you have to live with that, too, so its absolutely bull[IMAGE] to make such a program. leave soldats' weapons as they are!

Chakra
December 22, 2004, 2:49 pm
sigh...systemfeind, no offence luv, but read the thread before posting...seriously, 30 guys just said exactly what you did. You could've just cut-and-pasted and saved your keyboard valuable button-presses.

nazikilla
December 23, 2004, 11:57 pm
i have one question about the weapon editor (quickly signs petition) how would one edit the weapon stuff. wouldnt you have to completely change the exe to do so?

Ash Lambert
December 24, 2004, 10:22 am
nah. Weapon Editor = Stupid thing to do.
Who would decide which weapon balance is good enough for us? Ok? Chakra? ColdFusion? Hanayo?
Never ever one of you could decide this, cause your too much affected with your own frustrations...
Me can´t decide this neither.
I vote for better netcode and some bugfixing, thats all Soldat needs! ;P

Hektik Sniper
December 24, 2004, 10:42 am
sigh, Again read the thread. What we want to do with the weapon editor for TNL, is work with the clans to get a weapons set that is properly FAIR. As its stands it not fair at all. Clans are the biggest point in soldat, and they provide most of the servers, so when they are gone, have fun playing offline.

Ok
December 25, 2004, 4:00 am
thats the problem with this forums :its made of alot of players who obviously dont understand the meaning of the balance as it is atm.
i dont think there is a problem in publics. there isnt actually. a good player can deal with any weapon in publics since its not abused by a full lineup of a clan.
but unfurtunatly publics are not the future of soldat. AND as Hektik said, clans provide all your lovley public servers. even the clans that enjoy the spraying system will eventualy get sick of it since it is after all boring. just like barret camping is.
and btw m79 and barret arent the problem now. De's and Ruger and Mp5 wich became useless vs the spraying system. they werent the problem before. yet they got nerfed.

Jello
December 26, 2004, 2:18 am
Deagles, Ruger and MP5 are probably the weapons I use most, and they're not nerfed THAT much. Deagles especially are considerably non-nerfed. And isn't MP5 an auto anyways? Perhaps you ment M79...?

Deleted User
January 3, 2005, 3:25 pm
I SUPPORT THIS INITIATIVE

Will
January 6, 2005, 1:52 pm
if we had the weaponm editor us barret users could de-nerf the barret! WOOHOO! BRING BACK 1.0.5b BARRET!

(also the graphic because the new one sux)

Marine
January 7, 2005, 4:45 am
God, this is going to suck is Michal ever releases it. Especially with the hundreds of morons who will make their favorite weapon 1-2 hit kill, and nerf everything else. And it'll all be different every server, and will have to get used to different weapons in each server. Pft.

Michal Marcinkowski
January 9, 2005, 12:37 am
I don't think the weapons editor will be a final solution. Perfection can also be boring, so that's not the reason why I would make the weapons editor. I thought of it as a really cool thing for modders that would be able to modify any gun settings (bullet types, clips, animations, etc.). It would be a horrific task for me because of the way I programmed the weapons (that would mean a lot of Coke and hours without sunlight). However making a weapons editor that would just change rate of fire, damage and ammo would be more easy. I am willing to experiment that's why I might do it in the next version.
And I don't think there would be different weapons on every server because you can hardly find a customized server now. Admins are usualy lazy and will download the most popular weapons mod;).

Cold Fusion
January 9, 2005, 12:40 am
Aha! SOME SENSE!

PS: just change rate of fire, damage and ammo would be more easy. - And bink, don't forget a bink on/off option! ;)

I am willing to experiment that's why I might do it in the next version. - COME ONE TEH MICHAL.

Michal
January 9, 2005, 1:11 am
I want this editor, I already have some great modding ideas :9
Changing rate of fire, damage, and ammo capacity is all I need :)

Edit: Muzzle velocity would be good too.

Chakra
January 9, 2005, 2:33 am
don't forget speed and arc of projectile!

grand_diablo
January 9, 2005, 2:20 pm
lol, I can already imagine some cheaters saying "No, its not a weapon hack, its of course the server's mod!" :P

To be honest, I don't really like the idea of a weapons editor, while Soldat is still such a "small" game. This experiment would imho be just too risky now.

But, gravity settings for maps (which affect the bullets too) would be great.

Aquarius
January 9, 2005, 2:46 pm
I LOVE THE WEAPON EDITOR IDEA!!!

Michal you are right. It will be a great and powerfull tool for mod creators.

It will be a great improvement, the same as autodownload of maps in 1.2.1. Did the map autodownload cause, that people stopped to play on standard maps? NO!!!

Don't listen those people, who think that the weapon editor will destroy Soldat. They don't understand the idea at all. They are cowards, they hate all changes!!! :D

DON'T LISTEN THEM AND MAKE THE WEAPON EDITOR FFS!!! YOU ARE RIGH, IT WILL BE GREAT AND SOLDAT SHALL LIVE FOREVER WITH THIS! :D

oops sorry I choosed bad font size :P

Michal Marcinkowski
January 9, 2005, 2:49 pm
Yes, rate of fire, damage, ammo, bink, recoil, speed and mass of bullet can be easily done with settings in a text file. I don't even have to make a program for it...
I was thinking that the weapons mod is a very risky solution, you will have to change your game style every time you enter a server with different weapon settings (even if there are only 3 different ones). This will be very confusing especially for new players. There should be a filter for servers with weapons mods and a warning before you enter the server. Also this will lead to many situations like this: lets say I rule with a gun on 1 weapon mod but on the other it is useless and I can't say really how good I am. There would be less identity with a weapon, therefore weapons would not give so much controversy and there would be less things to talk about on the forums ;).

Aquarius
January 9, 2005, 2:58 pm
It won't happen, because most people will play constantly only on standard servers.

This is not risky. Look at the servers today. 90% of them are CTF and DM servers with standard settings and standard maps. Just make the filter for the lobby, so people who want to choose standard Soldat server may do it easily. And weapon mods should have their names in Lobby for better recognition of different mods.

And with the weapon editor it should be possiblne not only to change weapon stats, but also weapon names (and maybe even look).

_Mancer_
January 9, 2005, 4:11 pm
quote:Originally posted by Michal MarcinkowskiYes, rate of fire, damage, ammo, bink, recoil, speed and mass of bullet can be easily done with settings in a text file. I don't even have to make a program for it...
I was thinking that the weapons mod is a very risky solution, you will have to change your game style every time you enter a server with different weapon settings (even if there are only 3 different ones). This will be very confusing especially for new players. There should be a filter for servers with weapons mods and a warning before you enter the server. Also this will lead to many situations like this: lets say I rule with a gun on 1 weapon mod but on the other it is useless and I can't say really how good I am. There would be less identity with a weapon, therefore weapons would not give so much controversy and there would be less things to talk about on the forums ;).


I think Michal just prooved that the weapons editor idea is bad in 1 paragraph...

Even the people who want weapons editor have nothing against this.

Weapons editor = Bad.

SERIAL KILLeR
January 9, 2005, 4:42 pm
It should be a custom mode like realistic where u can change the weapons so u can filter them out.
And u should be able to see the weapon stats or something when u enter a server.

damnnation
January 9, 2005, 4:57 pm
the weapon editor is gonna ruin soldat i can feel it so if it comes out i'm gonne stop playing soldat NAH!!

Aquarius
January 9, 2005, 4:58 pm
quote:Originally posted by _Mancer_quote:Originally posted by Michal MarcinkowskiYes, rate of fire, damage, ammo, bink, recoil, speed and mass of bullet can be easily done with settings in a text file. I don't even have to make a program for it...
I was thinking that the weapons mod is a very risky solution, you will have to change your game style every time you enter a server with different weapon settings (even if there are only 3 different ones). This will be very confusing especially for new players. There should be a filter for servers with weapons mods and a warning before you enter the server. Also this will lead to many situations like this: lets say I rule with a gun on 1 weapon mod but on the other it is useless and I can't say really how good I am. There would be less identity with a weapon, therefore weapons would not give so much controversy and there would be less things to talk about on the forums ;).


I think Michal just prooved that the weapons editor idea is bad in 1 paragraph...

Even the people who want weapons editor have nothing against this.

Weapons editor = Bad.


_Mancer_ = Bad.

Chakra
January 9, 2005, 5:13 pm
quote:Originally posted by Michal Marcinkowski Also this will lead to many situations like this: lets say I rule with a gun on 1 weapon mod but on the other it is useless and I can't say really how good I am. There would be less identity with a weapon, therefore weapons would not give so much controversy and there would be less things to talk about on the forums ;).


How would this ever be such a huge problem Mancer?

Use your imagination. The big man knows that joining any server without knowing what mod is playing is incredibly dumb. He'll find a way to have us 'know' whats playing where. This way, we can play with specific mods!

Of course, there'll be lots, and lots, and lots of mods out there. But how often will servers change their weapon settings for every day they feel like something new? That isn't going to happen. It's common sense. Certain mods will excel into minor fame (just like in every other game flooded with mods) and become played more than others.

grand_diablo
January 9, 2005, 8:06 pm
Even if you can filter out modded servers, I guess Soldat is still too small for such a big change. My worries about too much surprising elements were wiped away with the filtering idea, but still Soldat is yet too small. Id support a weapons editor release once Soldat is big enough (we dont need huge masses of players like CS, of course, but the game's community should grow some more before we do such a change).

Chakra
January 9, 2005, 8:44 pm
Could you explain how the size of the community effects it? i'm not sure what you really mean.

damnnation
January 9, 2005, 8:45 pm
there should only come a wep.editor when soldat is complete, everything is perfect and no bugs and stuff then it may be released but like g_d said soldat is still too small and not readdy for it yet

Michal
January 9, 2005, 9:01 pm
I think that most servers will still use default settings. And even if there is a lot of variation, for me that would be part of the fun, adapting to new scenarios. Besides, if someone makes it really unbalanced you could tell because everyone would be using the best gun ;) . It's true that most admins use standard maps in servers since they don't feel like getting custom ones, I think the same will apply for weapons settings, they just won't feel like getting the custom files.
I am really looking forward to the weapons editor. Who knows, maybe someone will make settings that are even more balanced then they are now. When it's first implemented it's probably going to be crazy, with many different settings, just like when map autodownloads were put in almost every server I went to had custom maps. But it will settle down, serious admins will choose the best weapon settings and there will be plenty of good servers.

Michal Marcinkowski
January 10, 2005, 1:31 pm
I just had this crazy idea while I was fixing the server. Why not release the weapon editor today!
The weapon damage is strictly server-side and therefore I can just make a version of the server that loads weapon damage from a file and done. We can all see how it works.
Of course I don't want chaos to spread out that's why I will enable this function only on passworded server for now, agreed?

palloco
January 10, 2005, 1:32 pm
k

Chakra
January 10, 2005, 1:33 pm
Sounds....fun!

The Geologist
January 10, 2005, 1:37 pm
My nipples are getting as hard as chrondum just thinking about it.

DeMonIc
January 10, 2005, 2:55 pm
quote:Originally posted by HitmanDid I mention how attractive you're looking today?