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Trench Warfare Integration
Soldat Forums - Soldat Talk - Game Improvements / Suggestions
Oliver Stannus
December 12, 2004, 3:26 pm
I'm not sure if this has been suggested before (the list that I was meant to read looked like it was under construction).

I would like to suggest a trench-warfare mode.

I understand that any mode such as this would be hard to implement with the contemporary open-ended map making system, though if it were possible it would be quite interesting.

The main mode could either be a simple capture-the-opposing-trench (where the winning team is that which takes the other's trench) or alternativley, a mode whereby one team is on defence, and the other on assault.

The maps would have to be large and mostly horizontal, have jets disallowed, and have an automatic "survival" mode engaged.

This could either lead to a system of wins by attrition or quick foot charges. Each end of the map could have a base, with a single command bunker with flag and grenades. Behind this, in redundant territory, an special artillery tool, similar to the stat. gun could be place and operated by soldiers (with some limitations on ammunition and/or reload time, as well as accuracy). This would be condusive to an environment where players conserve their lives (and ammunition if possible), and creating a more realistic mode of Soldat.

The flag point of view on a infiltration type map would be extra-realistic, as many trench battles of the Great War included bayonette charges whereby the commanding officer would carry a marker flag to show the spotters how far they had gone before they were killed.

This sort of game style would utilise single shot weapons such as Ruger, Barret or limited automatic weapons such as the Minimi (surprisingly useful as a trench style machine gun).

Other suggestions such as land mines and limited ammunition could be included as well. One might even deign to include limited artillery painting.

I understand the integration of such an idea would be nigh on impossible, and that most Soldat players (hence developers cashflow)prefer sensless automatic combat with fairly unrealistic and unlimited jets; which might as well be represented by spaceships flying around than by soldiers. However, I thought I might put my idea forward because I am more than a bit sick of maps like ctf_death and many deathmatch maps like it, where players zoom around like demented helicopters emptying clips into spawn points. I have seen some reasonable attempts at trench-warfare maps, and I understand that one could always argue that these are more than that which is required by an enthusiast of more-than-semi-realistic-combat.

I think that maps such as Lagrange are very good examples of my suggestion, and there are more than a few players who like to play those maps with only two teams and rifles (also using LAW's as artillery).

I see that this suggestion would be too hard to actuate, might be more trouble than it is worth, and too realistic when Soldat is designed to be mindless fragging (I probably have better chance of getting said suggestion included in a game such as Unreal Tournament), but I hope that someone, even map makers could take my suggestion, or elements thereof (such as less jets and more "real life" strategy) on board.

Thank you for anyone who reads this.

Meandor
December 12, 2004, 4:22 pm
I don't mind the idea: but i don't think i'd like it, or even if it'd be playable. I mean, games like this are usually 3d. The reason soldat doesn't work like this (i believe) is because, lacking a side-dimension, it develops in the air. So removing the 'air' space where players can go it'd turn into a plain 1-directional shooter, because all you can do is shoot and walk forward, getting killed in a few second because all your teammates are in a line and all the enemies are shooting in that same point.

Leo Da Lunerfox
December 12, 2004, 6:52 pm
Meandor explained it well, although you CAN crawl prone to avoid the shots, you'll have to be spaced pretty far out from your teammates to not have some noob jump in and throw nades everywhere and slaughter everyone. This type of mode, although very fun, is best only played with people you know.

Yin_Starrunner
December 13, 2004, 9:36 pm
First, lemme compliment you on your outstanding writing ability.

Second, I dont really liek the idea, sorry.

Jello
December 14, 2004, 1:53 am
I like it, I'd play it. Meandor makes an iteresting point that it would essetially become a one-D game. Why not? The first of its kind. Also, shouldn't this be in the suggestion forum?

Blackdeath
December 14, 2004, 3:17 am
It;d be a very different sort of game. LOL oh that reminds me of my map I made last Christmas ctf_WW1 lol zoomed out totally it takes 5 screen shots. Anyways it is a good concept but I guess it's sort of a niche thing...I like it.

Marine
December 14, 2004, 4:01 am
Haha this is hilarious. I'm in the stage right now of making a map titled just that "Trench Warfare."
It's a map with two teams starting out on either side. Their bases are very fortified.

As you walk to the enemies base (only one path) you encounter another bunker and a stat gun. From then on till the enemies stat and bunker, its a long field with trenches and bushes.

Jet Fueld will be 0 to slightly below minimal. Theres several trenches to duck in on your way there, and you will NEED to hide in them. It will be impossible just to run across the map current Soldat-style guns blazing, because since you can't fly you make cannon fodder for the enemies stat. You need to carefully creep across, in between cool down intervals for stat, and inch your way closer and closer to their base. M79 will ROCK in this mode, if you can use trajectory correctly to take out enemies in nearby trenches. Same with LAW if you fire it almost straight up.

Chakra
December 14, 2004, 4:46 am
Something like this could be very easily achieved with a lagrange-styled ctf in real mode. I've longed for the day for something like this to be honest.

Mechanoid
December 17, 2004, 11:41 am
quote:Originally posted by MarineHaha this is hilarious. I'm in the stage right now of making a map titled just that "Trench Warfare."
It's a map with two teams starting out on either side. Their bases are very fortified.

As you walk to the enemies base (only one path) you encounter another bunker and a stat gun. From then on till the enemies stat and bunker, its a long field with trenches and bushes.

Jet Fueld will be 0 to slightly below minimal. Theres several trenches to duck in on your way there, and you will NEED to hide in them. It will be impossible just to run across the map current Soldat-style guns blazing, because since you can't fly you make cannon fodder for the enemies stat. You need to carefully creep across, in between cool down intervals for stat, and inch your way closer and closer to their base. M79 will ROCK in this mode, if you can use trajectory correctly to take out enemies in nearby trenches. Same with LAW if you fire it almost straight up.


Suggestion implemented. :)
But really though, the majority of things you suggested can already be done through specialized mapping techniques like this.
As well:
- LAWS and M79s become long and short range mortars
- Stationary Guns become MG emplacements
- Server settings serve up specialized weapon settings like: Ruger-Barret-Minimi with Realistic turned ON, a high respawn time, on a TDM, or Infilration/CTF gameplay setting

Kickass suggestion, IMO.

Note: In trench warfare there is no around; only through, as trenches can extend from one mountain range to the next. So, despite being in a very 3D world, there really only was One dimension of travel. :/

Michal Marcinkowski
December 17, 2004, 2:23 pm
This would be fun. You can play this on ctf_Chernobyl, it is Trench-a-like. It is really fun to duck and shoot and conquer but the mode would have to have specific maps for it.

Unlucky 13
December 18, 2004, 3:44 am
Nice little suggestion, but on the map, maybe make the trenches "invisible"? you know, like... a fully opaque scenery in front of the trench, so you know it is there, but you dont know WHO is there. Makes it more suprising

Vijchtidoodah
December 18, 2004, 3:50 am
^That would be so evil...real soldiers never had to deal with the problem of not knowing who was standing next to them. And you could just use noncolliding polygons instead of scenery.

Leo Da Lunerfox
December 18, 2004, 4:47 am
The trick to making these maps are to make it so that it is possible to shoot out to the field when you stand, is possible to be hit with (Headshot) when crouched, and completely safe from direct fire when proned. Also, make it in this fashion:

Weak ACSII skills, but whatever
_______________ __________ ___________ ___________ _____________
\__| \__| |__/ |__/

That way, the map stays in balence because it is harder to go "Over the top" for both teams, while the conquered trenches are harder to defend because you don't get much of that 90degree polygon protection anymore.

Also, it works better if you make the length of the trenches to about 5 soldat lengths, that way, you can fit more soldat into each trench, and still have space to run around in.

My next map in the Timeline Project, WWI, will be done in that way. So check it out when it comes out

LumpyFerret
December 18, 2004, 4:53 am
it would be like ww1 and be a total stalemate..

for maby oh a couple of years??

haha

Marine
December 18, 2004, 4:54 am
You bet I will.

Michael: Yes, that is a good trench war map, but since theres more than one way around, it takes the trench-warfare strategy out of it.

Vassili_Zaitsev
December 18, 2004, 5:02 am
sounds like you could just make the map as an inf with the two flags rite near eachother and a map styled in the way you discribed.

i dont agree with God here. Soz, plz dont smite me!

Cookie.
December 20, 2004, 5:00 am
i like the idea would be loads of fun ^_^
could utilize the feature where your soldier raises gun over sandbag with collider ^_^ there would need to be maps for it though

Leo Da Lunerfox
December 20, 2004, 6:45 am
The best Trench Warfare map has to be Bunker Jungle by Droopy. Its a Lagrange style map with 2 bunkers on each side, and 2 hills on each end, and trenches on each side. He never released it, so I'm not gonna put it up here. But I do open a server that has this playing from time to time, and I get great replys on how good it is everytime.