I see a lot of anti-american sentiment on these forums. Most of it coming from people who live in other countries. And even more from people who live within the continental US. I feel your pain boys and girls, because USA is obviously an evil empire. Myself I was born in the USSR, and raised in Russia. I moved to America about 4 years ago when I was 17.

This is a serious thread, so please don't spam it much. I want to know what has USA done to ruin YOUR life? I mean I am sure Americans had dome something personal to you judging from what you guys write in this forum.

So please give me some feedback, I want to know where all the hate is coming from. Hitman you go first.

quote:What has the USA done to ruin YOUR life?It gave you an internet connection.

ALL teenagers I know has some kind of racial prejudice against me and my country. I don't hate the whole country, that would be dumb. Oh yeah and it hasn't ruin my country, but the comments about my nationality and my country really hurt...

Usa has done nothing to ruin my life lol

Jerry Springer, Ricki Lake, mcdonalds, gangster rap, baseball hats, Disneyland, teenagers with microphones and a list of ways to pronounce l33t words over CS, fat guys in cowboy hats, massive commercialism, and you talk funny(ier than us).

Plus you have the most horrific gun crime in the world. The amount of murders through guns is 10x that than all of europe (again, statistics taken from dramatic british news articles).

You're the priority source of all things related to mainstream media and flood it with average high-cost crap, sitcom after sitcom, sellable musician after musician, you flood the rest of the world with this media that overflows our own through mass.

Half your population is (probably) full of god-fearing bush-supporters that doubtlessly have archaic unfair and wrong fallacies and beliefs, some of which their more important ones are simply overlooked through personal preference.


..but despite any of these criticisms, America is one of my favourite countries.

Two brits get on a plane, and wouldn't give each other the time of day. Two americans get on a plane, and after the 'howdys' they could be talking all the way to Japan.

Though their media is overflowed with averageness, what other country could produce classics like Simpons and Family Guy, Friends, and all those gripping dramas like 24 and Without a Trace, and garantee at least 5 absolutely classic movies per year that'll make us laugh, cry, and be thrilled?

What other country has kept at least some watch over the entire world, hosting to UN, and removing the most famous evil man of these past two decades? (granted not perfectly, but what war goes well?)

And how about all that technology and software and mass production? Computers, cars, shoes, drinks, clothes... almost all major brands originate from there, and usually respected for their quality.

Hell I could go on all day. Fact is, America is 'the' biggest country around, and I don't mean in measurement. The world looks to America because alot of things come from there and happen there.

The reason USA is despised by some though, is for their obvious and major faults. And like with many things, the faults are all that can be seen or are shown. And with a country as 'big' as America, they show up like a boil on Kylie's arse.


Remember France's nuclear tests in the atlantic? 'course not...you don't care. What about Britain's flooding of europe with thugs and hooligans causing millions in damages and injuries every football world cup? Japan's youth crisis? what youth crisis.. Germany has the most major Class-A drug problem in students in the world. South Africa is mostly racist to whites. Islam....well jesus you must know.

All these countries have as many problems, but they simply don't matter as much because they're not 'big'. America is in the spotlight, and it's hairy palms hide it's beauty.

america is the centre of attention, 2 buildings get boomed, the whole world goes phsyco, when somthing as big as what happens in america happens, people dont give a rats tail...

Chakra is so wise its godly

/bow

Seriously, that actually taught me something

taxed me :|

seems like most of the "USA haters" havent replied here...

Unless they can post some good reasons my belief will be that they hate USA because we are more powerful.

good post chakra btw :)

and hitman, lol you guys arent gonna stop with this are you?

america raped my grandmother!

quote:Originally posted by Chakra[long post]


You forgot Sarah Jessica Parker.

Chakra you forgot big-guys-in-small-bathing-suit incidents.Like on that weather commercial.And by the way I think I owned you earlier today ^^
But Americans have screwed Canada around,I may be 13 but my uncle knows politics and we talk a lot..

Ok, i dont like most of the people from U.S.A because alot of my friends usto life there, and were forced to move here, due to racisim and critizism of there backround and color, its very sad.

I dont think its right, i dont have anything like physically against US like color just what they say about others, and all the crime that goes one there, personally i would never want to live there because it freaks me out from all the stuff i see on the news i would only come for a visit if anything, and for a short period of time.

Dont get me wrong though, im not saying that all Americans are like this, but alot of them are, but i guess thats the way it is everywhere "Good People" "Bad People" but i really wouldnt know what its really like to live there, so this is what i think from the things i hear and see.

quote:Originally posted by Messiah

Dont get me wrong though, im not saying that all Americans are like this, but alot of them are, but i guess thats the way it is everywhere "Good People" "Bad People" but i really wouldnt know what its really like to live there, so this is what i think from the things i hear and see.


How do you know that most of the people in the US are like this? I think you're taking the actions of the minority to be those of the majority, my friend. Even if you see things on the news, one incident or even twenty incidents aren't applicible to the majority of the American population. I'm curious where your friends were from in order to make it bad enough for them to move to another country, when I see "colored" people as well as people with "backgrounds" around me every day, doing quite well in their day to day lives.

Chakra good post. I ran a check on it, and it does not look like you copied it from somewhere. Or at least you rearranged the words. Anyway.. That post was nice, and you no doubt had been rehearsing it for a while in your head. But you completely avoided my question. The question was what has American done to you personally to produce any hateful feelings. You obviously do not have any hateful feelings, but you graced us with your response nevertheless. Thanks, I guess.

Messiah same goes to you. I know many people who know many people, but I specifically asked a question. What has America done to YOU to make your life worse. Not your friends, not some people you know, not that girl that had that cousin, who moved from USA during the Vietnam war.

I know there are a bunch of people in this forum who constantly bash USA. I want to hear what USA has done to you or your family to make your life worse.

Saying magical words like "McDonald's" or "Jerry Springer" does not count.

Chakra, great post. There is a lotta crap that the US brings into the world, but also all kindsa stuff we have done... It feels too much like everyone judges us on the garbage they hear on TV and other news media, and never think about anything good.

edit: Yes i know this is supposed to be a bash USA post, but there always has to be someone on the other side of the argument

FliesLikeABrick, this is supposed to be about things that ruin your life. :P

BMF, U.S.A hasnt done anything to be "Directly" but indirectly so, not to me just friends.

Geologist i see what you mea , i shouldnt be judging other Americans from what i hear around me, but sometimes its true, and lots of Canadian's are anti-american.

Messaih can you please read THE GODDAMN TITLE?

I don't care what your friends told you. Bring them in here, and let them tell the stories. I don't want no GODDAMN HEARSAY in here. I want some PERSONAL EXPERIENCES.



Is it so damn hard to UNDERSTAND MY SIMPLE QUESTION?

Ok, my bad it dont affect me i love people from USA :D, End of Story.

Well put Chakra, well put.

The US of A didn't do anything to ruin my live, I think many people are just jealous. But they can't admit it.


quote:Origianlly posted by Chakra:
You're the priority source of all things related to mainstream media and flood it with average high-cost crap, sitcom after sitcom, sellable musician after musician, you flood the rest of the world with this media that overflows our own through mass.


I particularly agree with this. But then again, america is the biggest producer of mainstream crap because it is the biggest country, to which we all look up.

quote:Originally posted by BMFMessaih can you please read THE GODDAMN TITLE?

I don't care what your friends told you. Bring them in here, and let them tell the stories. I don't want no GODDAMN HEARSAY in here. I want some PERSONAL EXPERIENCES.



Is it so damn hard to UNDERSTAND MY SIMPLE QUESTION?
Sorry, I just felt this had to be quoted.

Well the US arrested my mother for suspected terrorist activity because she sent money to charity for aid in Iraq. They sent her to Guantánamo Bay without telling our family. One day we just came home and the house was torn up, my mom gone. The police refused to investigate it. 9 months later we were told that she was going to be tried by a tribunal court in two weeks. We were never told the outcome of her trial, it's been three months and we've had no contact with her. The government now runs wiretaps on our phones and moniters our movements. After I got American Dynasty from our local liberary, our house was searched again and $2000 worth of damage was done to our property. There has been no reimbursement.
Actually no. I'm just kidding. But this COULD happen, thanks to the Patriot Act. Seriously, the laws allow the Feds to do this, and more.

The US hasn't done anything to ruin my life personally however, BMF. I'm actually a little surprised at this. It seems like they've done SOMETHING...hmm. I'll think about it more.

you're a moron. Yes if you read those laws and everything word for word it would allow those kind of things, but you completely forget the fact that Constituional rights have to be preserved in accordance with any other law. Think about then rewrite your little fairy tale.

Edit: I am just going to point a thing or two out here because I do not want to spam BMF's thread, as I am anxious to see why people are so biased against the USA. I called you a moron because everything you said is based on bias and proves nothing. Nothing has ever been done directly to you [nor to anyone you know I suspect] and what you said added absolutely nothing to this thread. You just attempted to stir up more garbage like BMF is trying to sort through.

Of course Constituional rights have to be preserved, which is why its so wierd that the Patriot Act was ever passed. But the fact is The Patriot Act is in direct opposition to the Constitution in almost every way. Therefore the entire Act should be null and void. But it's not. These laws have been applied and will be applied again. And why not interpret these laws word for word? If it says the feds can arrest you without telling anyone, shouldn't you be concerned about that? Simmer down with the name calling too, if you would. We're not in third grade here...

I was not going to reply to your post Jello. But I specifically asked maybe FOURTEEN TIMES please DO NOT SPAM THE DAMN TOPIC. You don't have a story to tell, but I am sure others do. After all I know for a fact that there are a few USA-haters out there, I am waiting for their reply. So please let me ask you again nicely, DONT SPAM THIS GODDAMN TOPIC AND ANSWER THE SIMPLE QUESTION JESUS CHRIST IS THIS SO HARD. I mean we are not in the third grade anymore.

DON'T POST HERE UNLESS YOU HAVE A STORY TO TELL. AND NO JELLO FICTIONAL STORIES DO NOT COUNT.

Surely the best anyone is going to come up with is some story about how an individual or group of yanks pissed them off in some way or another ....into which someone'll say "but you can't judge the whole by just that experience" and then we all go play with our new toy remote control cars?

Last I checked, USA hasn't invaded any countries against their will (my Iraqi friends who live here seem to approve), they haven't dumped toxic waste on someone's doorstep, and they haven't kidnapped any tourists for ransom. The main reason people hate America is because of their stereotypical confidence, which when true can grate a little. Otherwise what the sweet f*ck can you expect?

At best America's actions in the Middle-East have sparked new life into terrorism and thats a thorn in the entire world's side, but as things go that seems about as under control as it can be.

This thread ain't gonna go far man.

There are so many people that dispise United States. And they will show up in every thread and bash you for being American, or supporting the US. But where are they now? I actually gave everybody a chance to vent their frustration with United States. The fact of the matter is that nobody here has a solid reason to "hate" America. Except for plain old envy.

This thread is not going to go far. But that's the whole point.

Well, I think that's really the whole point Chakra; America hasn't done anything to ruin anybody's life on these forums. So, by asking everybody who hates America, which from what I've seen is nobody, and nobody coming up with any good reasons, he's basically indirectly telling them to quit their whining.quote: So please give me some feedback, I want to know where all the hate is coming from. Hitman you go first.BMF, as I told you on MSN yesterday, I'm an American citizen, I have an American passport and I don't hate America, nor the American people. The only thing I dislike, and disagree with is Bush and his government.

Edit: Should have refreshed before I posted. As you can see, BMF has just confirmed my point.

How could we hate a country of mostly immigrants, how could we hate our possible ancestors...

A better question would be :

- "What makes you 'american' ?"
* "Euh, hmm, hMm, gimme a minute, hmmzz, well.., euhm, i think, hmm, dunno, but, got an american ID though..."
- "Exactly."

An 'american' is undefinable. Same as for a Belgian, a Frenchman, etc...

So what's the point in hating the undefinable ... The abstract pleasure ?

( For all the European 'America-haters', take a look at http://www.ellisisland.com/indexHistory.html , or just go visit the wonderful country and meet the Americans ... who wouldn't differ much from the man or woman you are ... as you'll notice soon once you're there ... )

I still dislike you, BMF, but that's not cause you're american/russian. It's cause the impression I got of you on these forums. The same disliking impression I have for the current leaders in American politics.

But do I hate America or the Americans ? Hell, no !

Hitman the funny thing is that you were one of the few people who actually answered the correct question.

America isn't what most people hate. It's the Bush administration that most people don't like. That and many people don't appreciate the troops we have in their countries. We have troops in Saudi Arabia doing nothing, when there's mass genocide going on in Africa that the UN won't touch.

So you are saying that people dislike the Bush administration because UN would not do anything about Sudan? That makes a whole lot of sense.

I WISH AMERICA WAS NEVER HERE! I WISH IT WOULD OF NEVER BEEN THOUGHT UP! THAT WAY WE WOULD HAVE NO ELETRIC, CARS, MOST GASSES, DESIESE CURES, OR THE INTERNET! BOOO AMERICA! BOOOOOOOOOOOOO SPIDER MAN IS GAY! BOOOO, I WISH AMERICA WAS NEVER HERE SO IRAQ WOULD STILL BE UNDER THE LEADERSHIP OF A DICTATOR BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. I WISH AMERICA WAS NEVER HERE SO COLORED PEOPLE WOULD STILL BE SLAVES IN THIS BRITISH LAND!!!!! I WISH AMERICA WAS GONE SO WE COULD NEVER HELP NO ONE IN ANY WAR AND NEVER HAVE A LOT OF THE EVERY DAY MODERN APPLIANCES!

I WISH THERE WAS NO AMERICA SO THERE WAS NO WARM BATHS! I WISH THERE WAS NO AC OR HEAT! BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

Imbasels.

You're the only imbecile here. Like the world wouldn't have come up with those things if America didn't exist. Half of the things you listed weren't even invented in the US.

And lay off the caps, it makes you sound even more retarded than you are now.

RIAA closed Suprnova!! :P

quote:Originally posted by MadsniperI WISH AMERICA WAS NEVER HERE! I WISH IT WOULD OF NEVER BEEN THOUGHT UP! THAT WAY WE WOULD HAVE NO ELETRIC, CARS, MOST GASSES, DESIESE CURES, OR THE INTERNET! BOOO AMERICA! BOOOOOOOOOOOOO SPIDER MAN IS GAY! BOOOO, I WISH AMERICA WAS NEVER HERE SO IRAQ WOULD STILL BE UNDER THE LEADERSHIP OF A DICTATOR BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. I WISH AMERICA WAS NEVER HERE SO COLORED PEOPLE WOULD STILL BE SLAVES IN THIS BRITISH LAND!!!!! I WISH AMERICA WAS GONE SO WE COULD NEVER HELP NO ONE IN ANY WAR AND NEVER HAVE A LOT OF THE EVERY DAY MODERN APPLIANCES!

I WISH THERE WAS NO AMERICA SO THERE WAS NO WARM BATHS! I WISH THERE WAS NO AC OR HEAT! BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

Imbasels.

Muahahahahahahah. I bolded true statements.

Hehehe
"Colored people would still be slaves"?? They were AMERICA'S slaves. We freed them after enslaving them for years. Yeah, real generous. If your so interested in colored people, why do you live on the property of Native Americans, oh rightous one?

And in retrospect, I suppose my previous posts were sort of spam. And this one too, actually. Its the Bash Pit, get over it.

It's the Lounge basically. But it is safe to say that USA had not ruined the lives of anybody in this forum. Now every american hater will be directed here so he can vent his anger.

/me shakes Hitman's hand

he is one of the select few who figured out what the whole point of this thread is

USA are Tansforming my contry (Canada) into a copy of the USA which is bad. Now our country with the "OMFG-uber-important-dramatic-terrorist-attack-on-WTC" (so uber more dramatic than the FLOOD in Southern-Asia) want to put more and more money in our "defence" which is completely useless. That makes Budget for Education and Health smaller, again, that's bad.
Our TV news will talk more and more about scary things and the population will become more and more paranoid.
Fast-food will completely flood our country resulting in what? You know it.

So, USA have not done something PERSONNALY to ruin my life, but they ruinnig my country so it affects me.

USA did not do anything to ruin your life. Period. End of story. You are giving us these far-fetched accusations of how USA is supposedly influencing your government into changing its economic policy to increase the military budget. Let's not forget that the Canadian military is virtually non-existant, because in case of an attack, USA will be there to help you guys. So your country is protected by US military, and you don't have to build your own military. But now when USA *supposedly* asks to increase your military budget a little this is how you return the favor?
Putting money in "defence" is completely useless in Canada, BECAUSE THE UNITED STATES MILITARY PROVIDES THE DEFENCE FOR YOU, YOU LITTLE PRICK.

This is why I love Canada. Anyway, back to the topic.

Judge Man, fast food chains are the real problem in foreign countries. I went abroad a couple of times, and it is really a sad site. There are American soldiers on the streets rouding people up and forcing them to go to McDonald's and Wendy's restaurants. And they don't even have the Dollar Menu.
Oh wait.. There is nobody forcing your dumbass to go to McDonald's. YOU BLAME USA BECAUSE YOU CAN'T CONTROL YOURSELF AND EAT ALL THE CRAP AT MCDONALDS?? Are you OUT OF YOUR GODDAMN MIND? Do you blame Ford or BMW because you bought their car and killed yourself in it? Are you really so dumb? What does AMERICA have to do with you eating at McDonald's or Burger King.

Judge Man do you have any REAL reasons why USA is ruining YOUR life?

Ah [IMAGE] it they think different over there...

quote:Originally posted by ClanKwHRIAA closed Suprnova!! :P

it wasnt RIAA, it was MPAA (Motion-Picture American Assosiation or something).
anyway i blame USA for wiggers.
and BMF, calm down.. you're losing it.. get something to drink.

I think pulp has sound statement here, and no one has acknowledged it. People hate things associated with the USA, but can you say is that enough grounds to place hate on the concept of the USA itself? What I see most to define America is capitalism, and agressive foreign policy (in some cases imperialistic). People can justify hating things that define the USA, such as the later one I mentioned. And if the point of this topic is to ask if the USA has ruined your life, to stop people from whining about it, something doesn't have to ruin your life for you to hate it.

WOW BMF, that really made you angry.

I know that USA and Defending for Ourselves cause im not a STUPID DUMB PRICK. But with the event of 11 sept. 2001, with all the panic created by americans about security and all terrorist attack possible anytime anywhere, our government started to put more money in defence. ITS TRUE.

And for Fast-Food, did i say i wasn'T able to control so i always end eating a big Mac?? NO! I just say that USA are influencing our country in a bad way, making it into USA junoir. IT affects my life cause it affect my country, it not directly to me. It won't make me change, i will not become some Fat paranoid moron that knows nothing about the world except for his country. I'm not talking about you there, nt a insult. If it affect you, then im sorry.

I guess we should all live in Siberia or Iraq. I sure would be better to live there. j/k

quote:Originally posted by Judge_Man

I know that USA and Defending for Ourselves cause im not a STUPID DUMB PRICK. But with the event of 11 sept. 2001, with all the panic created by americans about security and all terrorist attack possible anytime anywhere, our government started to put more money in defence. ITS TRUE.


Holy crap! Heaven forbid your country put some money into it's own defence after watching it's neighbor lose ~3000 people in a terrorist attack. Bad USA...Bad!! (I just had to bold that part 'cause it was so funny and nonsensical).

/me gets a ruler to smack some smarts into teh USA

Blah...seriously though. Give some kind of reason why/how the USA is turning Canada into a "USA Junior" (much less how it ruined your life). Don't just act like the US is using fast food and assorted crap to influence Canadians into a more Americanized state. Your country has just as much of a hand in the McDonalds thriving on your street corner as the US does. But oh no! Scarey things on the news! I can't think for myself or find an independant news source because I'm blinded by this big bad media stemming from the US.

Is that the image you want to portray of your fellow Canadians? I doubt it. So lets hear some better reasoning.

USA would have put 150 Gazillion dollars in defence and it would had prevent the WTC attack. You can't really stop terrorist attack unless you put a laser shield around your country (exaggerating, but you know what i mean)

I did not say i can't think by myself, but a lot of people can't and a LOT of people just think what they see on the news is true. So making our news like the USA's one will make people more hmm fearfull for nothing.

BTW, quote:I know that USA and Defending for Ourselves cause im not a STUPID DUMB PRICK. that was for letting BMF knows that it's useless to insult people like that with prejudice.

Yeah, I lost it, sorry Judge Man.

But it is so funny when people say "OH USA is ruining our culture with Eminem and McDonald's!!" What kind of culture do you have if a bunch of Hip Hop artists and a fast food restaurant chain can influence your culture in such a big way??

I have to give BMF the upper hand in 90% of the posts in this thread... You guys are all missing the point of posting what the USA has done to personally affect you directly, not our bad influence on your culture etc etc etc

I know, i said it 3 times that it does not affect me directly but anyway..

Peace.

USA ruined my life... I have to waste my CAD and Wood Shop classes learning dumb ass imperial system because USA for some reason won't switch to metric.

Its nice to see someone as patriotic as you are BMF. Australia could use some people like you.

quote:Originally posted by Spectralsomething doesn't have to ruin your life for you to hate it.

sums it up.

quote:Originally posted by karmazonALL teenagers I know has some kind of racial prejudice against me and my country. I don't hate the whole country, that would be dumb. Oh yeah and it hasn't ruin my country, but the comments about my nationality and my country really hurt...

Not really, I never had anything against usa. Only hate russians living in estonia. Heh bad excuse or smt. Merry christmas.

I'm impressed. BMF really showed you guys up.

He gets all the publicity he wants and you guys fell for it... although the true issue here is the Military, as BMF pointed out. He believes that because "we" are providing a military defence for another country, they ought to be subject to our laws, regulations and ideology. How does that make the rest of the world feel?

A little angry?

Well that's too bad. If you speak your mind then you'll be called a prick and then be ignored. BMF is doing a good job of expressing American values. This is not sarcasm, boys and girls... it's what he has been showing us all along.

Any statements against his ideas are a blatent outcry against America.

Alas BMF, we all have different opinions. I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this. One politician is as good as the next, a target for the problems people encounter everyday and ones we'll see tomarrow.

Did you actually think you would change someone's mind by making an issue of their beliefs? Sure, you can always make them look like idiots... but why? Do you enjoy hurting people? I won't go into detail, but you might consider a different method en route of progressive thinking instead of feeding on pain and frustration.

I admit these people may be avoiding the question. You say that all the other countries (targeting europeans) are ignorant of the real issue. This would be like me calling russians bum fucking whores and then asking why everyone hates America. Of course you would be a tad distracted.

My Answer in Previous Topic

bucky brad, I don't like being called patriotic. I actually think that patriotism is a bad thing, because patriotism is pride. And pride is a mortal sin. However I love the country that I live in, and I hate when people bash it for no reason.


Elephant Hunter, I never said that Canada should be like USA just because USA provides military protection for them. However it is amusing when guys like Judge Man say "USA wants us to increase the military budget". Canadian military budget is so small because they have almost no military, thanks to USA. And when USA asks for a small favor back, they start crying.

Elephant Hunter thanks for completely missing the point of this thread. You showed yourself as a tool once again. I asked a very simple question, that you can't give an answer to. But why do you feel compelled to post anyway?

Michal, thank you for your response. Americans really need to switch to the damn metric system.

Amen to that!

*Curses the English for ever conceiving such a ridiculous measuring sytem*

Elephant, you are one of those who do not respect different oppinions, so I am surprised you bring that message here, when BMF showed respect when the other oppinion has some sort of basis.

What's a metric system?

Sent me back to itself

quote:Originally posted by DroopyWhat's a metric system?


It's what you use to measure things. In most parts of the world, lengths are divided into meters and its many prefixes which has a base of ten. But in America, we had the idiotic idea of being different (probably to show our separation from England) and chose to divide things into inches and feet with a base of twelve so that the system was easily dividable by many more numbers.

You know what i think? If you are not american or live in america, shut the [IMAGE] of whats going on in America ( get me Hitman?!)

Danny, go read the whole thread next time before making an ass of yourself yet again.

quote:BMF, as I told you on MSN yesterday, I'm an American citizen, I have an American passport and I don't hate America, nor the American people. The only thing I dislike, and disagree with is Bush and his government.

Thanks Vijchtidoodah.

BMF: Why do you think patriotism is a bad thing? I love my country too, and like you, hate people who bash it for no reason. But if you love your country, you will fight for it when it's invaded, right? Please explain, why do you think that patriotism is a bad thing. (in more "understandable" words please, I dont like thos long fancy words:))
(just for the record: I dont hate America-I just think your goverment is corrpt-, this is NOT a flamin post, I'm just curious, becouse I cant understand that a person think patriotism is bad, so be cool about it, and yes, I'm more of a patriot myself)

quote:Originally posted by frogboyDanny, go read the whole thread next time before making an ass of yourself yet again.

quote:BMF, as I told you on MSN yesterday, I'm an American citizen, I have an American passport and I don't hate America, nor the American people. The only thing I dislike, and disagree with is Bush and his government.


I think you are the ass. I only replied like that when i saw some comments about American from non-americans. End of story. Let's just drop it.

EDIT!

So the smartass wrote me an email:

[IMAGE]

"I am an American; I have an American passport"

ROFL hahahahahaha. That is the most retarded thing i have heard!

Hitman is right. The fact that you added his email into your post just makes you
look like an even bigger ass.

quote:I think you are the ass.

OH THE WIT!! OH SUCH WITTY PHRASING! YOU INSULTED ME BADLY :(((((

There is a big difference between being an American and having an American passport. I doubt that Hitman has ever been to, let alone lived in the USA. Hitman is definately losing his style.

vijchtidoodah, the imperial system (the one with feet, inches) was invented and used in china, then used in europe (before returning to metric) then finally used in america. can't blame them for it, it was the chinese.

RAWR I CANT BELIEVE IT!

Really? China? Hmm...you learn something new everyday. Thanks.

Well first off, think you're wrong about Canada not needing it's own defenses....even if America, the big nation that it is, is in the way, it's not guarenteed to be like that forever. And with President Bush at the Helm, i think Canada needs to take more precautions of an invasion from Texans. I'm obviously kidding, except the one thing i don't like about America is Bush.

O and also, America sparks some sort of a hatred in my father that he ends up taking out on me...he gets really pissed off, swearing and stuff about how American propaganda and all this stuff, he does it for some Canadian stuff too. Then he becomes all mean and stuff and starts saying [IMAGE] like, "I WILL DISMANTLE YOU" (to me :P)

Heh, me and BMF had a long "chat" about this.. I say that america is totally awesome cept for bush, even though he is the lesser of two evils.. (kerry is awful lol)

quote:Originally posted by SuperKillquote:Originally posted by ClanKwHRIAA closed Suprnova!! :P

anyway i blame USA for wiggers.




I blame Greek 10 - 24 year old males.

quote:Originally posted by DannyLBquote:Originally posted by frogboyDanny, go read the whole thread next time before making an ass of yourself yet again.

quote:BMF, as I told you on MSN yesterday, I'm an American citizen, I have an American passport and I don't hate America, nor the American people. The only thing I dislike, and disagree with is Bush and his government.


I think you are the ass. I only replied like that when i saw some comments about American from non-americans. End of story. Let's just drop it.

EDIT!

So the smartass wrote me an email:

[IMAGE]

"I am an American; I have an American passport"

ROFL hahahahahaha. That is the most retarded thing i have heard!
quote:Originally posted by BMFThere is a big difference between being an American and having an American passport. I doubt that Hitman has ever been to, let alone lived in the USA. Hitman is definately losing his style.
I am an American citizen for Christs sake! I have an American passport and I was registered as a citizen when I was born! My father's side of the family is American and have lived there for years; why do you think I got an American passport if I don't live, or was born, in America? Also, seeing as that is the only way you can get a passport without being born, or living, in the US, can't you maybe figure it out for yourself?

"Hmm, he's got an American passport but doesn't live there, so that probably means part of his family is American, which would also entitle him to US citizenship. So, he's probably a US citizen as well."

I always have to explain every single [IMAGE] they don't know.

I wrote you an e-mail because, as stated in my e-mail, I wanted to avoid another argument on the forums. Nice one DannyLB.

No matter if you agree or disagree in this thread you're gonna get flamed, even if you feed BMFs ego like so many of you have.

Heres one example of this:
quote:Originally posted by Elephant_HunterI'm impressed. BMF really showed you guys up.

Any statements against his ideas are a blatent outcry against America.

Alas BMF, we all have different opinions.

quote:Originally posted by BMFElephant Hunter thanks for completely missing the point of this thread. You showed yourself as a tool once again ... But why do you feel compelled to post anyway?

quote:Originally posted by PallocoElephant, you are one of those who do not respect different oppinions, so I am surprised you bring that message here, when BMF showed respect when the other oppinion has some sort of basis.


I admit America has produced some amazing things, but alot of these things are forced onto us through the food industry, media, cinema, and music culture. An example of how this has effected me is a group of friends I once had. These 'friends' were what most people refer to as 'wiggas'. Wiggas are people who live like theyre rappers. Anyway this group of Australian teenagers would listen to rap night and day constantly and actually live like they were the people rapping. Theyd talk like them, dress like them and it even changed their personality. They didnt give a [IMAGE]. I realised this when they broke into our house while we were on holiday and stole all my stuff. You could say it wasnt the music but they were all a clone of each other and they all acted like the rappers portray themselves to be. From listening to the music since a young age it has basically conditioned them into thinking a certain way.

In Australia it is hard to ignore the constant influence of American values through the media. Once these values become our own we can no longer see that they are being forced onto us.. and people who disagree with them are labelled 'america-haters'.

If you lay aside the historical reasons why other people would dislike the USA, and just tell you about behavior. Any creature, from an amoeba to a superpower, will act in the same way (in a broad sense). Everything resents it when something else is more powerful. Regardless of what the US has done to deserve or not deserve it, people will hate it because it is a more powerful superorganism than the one they belong to.

So, in a sense, they're jealous of our success in almost everything.

LOL marine. Maybe you act like an amoeba but the rest of us dont. When a superorganism is found many creatures fusionate with it, hating it is senseless for mindless creatures.

It was an analogy, too bad you can't understand that concept.

And this is slightly different. Is the rest of the world going to fusionate with the US? I doubt it.

LOL, why do you post that analogy when you admit it is different? Too bad you cant understand it.

You're obviously the one who can't understand it.

Listen Hitman.

First from your sentence "i am an american i have an american passport" You cant prove you are an american. I came to america almost 2 years ago and i too have an american passport. But does that make me a citizen? No! It makes me a resident. You must live for at least 5 years in America to be a citizen OR you have to be born here in America and you are already qualified as one.

Now dont call me dumbass and other words from your "rich" vocabulary. Sorry man, it's not my fault you didnt express yourself well.

Now please lets just drop this ok?

broken gerbil, so now America is to blame because a bunch of your half-witted friends broke into your house and stole your things? Is that a joke? What does American culture has to do with your friends being complete morons? Dude I listen to rap while I drive to school every day. That does not make me want to go and steal things. Music does not "condition" you to steal. I would get some help if I were you.

Danny you don't have a passport if you are not a citizen. You have a green card, stop lying.

Can you all PLEASE stop spamming this thread. And answer the POSTED QUESTION before Doggfather moves it to Bash Pit?

No BMF i do have a passport. See the thing is i never had my own, i was added on my moms, and i simply called to washington, paid a fee and they sent a passport ( + the additional paperwork) Indeed i have a green card. But i cant travel with it as a passport.

quote:Originally posted by broken_gerbil
I admit America has produced some amazing things, but alot of these things are forced onto us through the food industry, media, cinema, and music culture. An example of how this has effected me is a group of friends I once had. These 'friends' were what most people refer to as 'wiggas'. Wiggas are people who live like theyre rappers. Anyway this group of Australian teenagers would listen to rap night and day constantly and actually live like they were the people rapping. Theyd talk like them, dress like them and it even changed their personality. They didnt give a [IMAGE]. I realised this when they broke into our house while we were on holiday and stole all my stuff. You could say it wasnt the music but they were all a clone of each other and they all acted like the rappers portray themselves to be. From listening to the music since a young age it has basically conditioned them into thinking a certain way.

In Australia it is hard to ignore the constant influence of American values through the media. Once these values become our own we can no longer see that they are being forced onto us.. and people who disagree with them are labelled 'america-haters'.


That's seriously one of the weakest things I've ever heard. America or rap had nothing to do with your friends breaking into your house. If they don't know the difference between right and wrong, that's their mistake. They aren't puppets, and they aren't being controlled...they made the choice to break into your house, not the rap. In fact, it sounds like you saw your friends turning into big assholes from a ways out...so why didn't you choose to break off those relationships? I swear...it's like people have lost any sense of will power or control. Just mindless sheep to be controlled by music and video games...pathetic. Where were their parents before this happened, they weren't around to enforce any dicipline? After all, if the "rap" is turning your friends into these "bad" kids, I'm sure they were doing other stuff too, right? Pfft...nice try.

quote:Originally posted by MarineReloadedIf you lay aside the historical reasons why other people would dislike the USA, and just tell you about behavior. Any creature, from an amoeba to a superpower, will act in the same way (in a broad sense). Everything resents it when something else is more powerful. Regardless of what the US has done to deserve or not deserve it, people will hate it because it is a more powerful superorganism than the one they belong to.

So, in a sense, they're jealous of our success in almost everything.


Hmmm...maybe, no? For one thing, you're making a claim about every life form from single celled organisms up to nations and superpowers. A pretty foolish claim, considering the variety of creatures found between the two. There are plenty of examples in nature of "lesser" lifeforms sticking to the more powerful ones that they're supposed to resent so much. It's called a symbiotic relationship. There are tiny birds that clean the lice and bugs off giant rhinos...small fish that help clean bacteria and other things off of all kinds of sharks, there are plenty of tiny creatures/organisms living on and in your own human body. Where's the resentment there? There is none. So if you're going to use nature as an analogy, at least get it right.

well i can't disagree with marine's point that hate stems from the natural envy of those who have better.

While I agree the point may be valid (in theory)that others are envious of those who have better, his analogy is far from correct. And even if that point is correct...is it correct in this situation? Are all the problems (none of which we've really heard here) stemming from envy or jealousy? Hardly, and to think it can be boiled down to such things is fairly laughable.

Take a look at this thread...the title of which is "What has the USA done to ruin YOUR life?". How can one even begin to argue it's the fault of the USA if some country or group or individual gets jealous and acts out against the USA or others? That's utterly ridiculous, and you know as well as I that anyone who acts out in jealousy or envy against another person or nation does so of their own accord and are thusly responsible. It's still not a reason that the USA has done something to ruin someones life.

the USA has done waaaaay more good then bad. it also protects about every country in the world and our army does more work than any other country. who beat hitler? the USA, not europe. who beat the Japanese? the USA. not China. the USA will also protect the European countries against any wars in the future. also why do people get jealous? i never get jealous and i noticed that i'm alot happier than alot of people. i'm not a rich American either.

The USA has done a lot of bad things. DU shells? Can't supply government funded healthcare for everyone? I mean, a lot of other industriliased nations have done it, why can't we? And...the war in Iraq anyone? Dragging down our allies with this "you're either with us or against us" rubbish?

A lot of you are just products of the system, spewing out the crap the biased, unreliable American media feeds you.

And American hegemony anyone?

don't get me wrong, I'm all for this war, I jsut thought it was imrpoperly handled, you have no clue how many errors were made in the planning of it.

Do you want to supply a health care for everyone? Do you want to fund it all out of your pocket asshole? Because I don't want to pay for some lazy bums to get free healthcare from my paycheck. There are enough people out there getting welfare, and unemployment money FROM MY CHECK. This is a free country, I don't want the government STEALING MONEY from me to pay for YOUR health care. Is that so damn hard to understand? WORK and PAY for your own damn health care. There are no free cheeseburgers in this country.

Oh, and when a thousand soldiers dies in a war. Per year. I consider that a successful war. Call me stupid. You talk about many errors and you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. If you had any idea, you would give me proof. And post it in a new thread. Because this thread is not for WAR DISCUSSION.

But back to the topic. Marine, has USA done anything to ruin YOUR life? If not please SHUT YOUR DAMN MOUTH. CAN YOU STOP SPAMMING THIS GODDAMN TOPIC.

No BMF, you shut your goddamn mouth. You walk around here like you know everything, but your so terribly misinformed it makes me sick. I support this War in Iraq, but people like you make me look bad.

First, I'll start off with the war. Yes, this IS a successful war. A very successful one. Its two years after the invasion and there's still a full scale insurgency going on.

Wait, enough sarcasm. Yes, it was a very successful victory tactically. But...do you not have any idea about this armor crisis? The tour of duty extendments? Have you been living in a rock for the past two years, BMF? It certainly seems like it.

And...it's not just the US soldiers deaths. Its Iraqi civilians. People who have no argument with us, whatsoever. Trying to go on with their daily lives. You know how many Iraqi civilians are dead? 100,000. Mostly from Coalition Airstrikes with our "precision" guided missles and bombs. How many people did Saddam kill? 300,000 (not including Iran-Iraq war, if you include that, than Bush is a criminal, too). Did we really need to kill that many? Did we, BMF?

BMF, we wouldn't need to pay extra to fund healthcare. Do you know how much is spent on the military every year? 1.5 Trillion. Put a chunk of that into healthcare, you've got yourself a party. We don't need all that for military. We do need military, but we need to concentrate it more on Special Forces operations.

And you know, did it ever occur to you? Some people may not be able to afford this? Maybe they're unemployed? Oh man, is that another highlighter of your King George's term, isn't it?

Bah. Most likely that was a half-ass written post, but its been a long day and I'll get back to you in a morning. I bet tomorrow I'll read my post and say "What was I thinking?" Anyway, goodnight.

Oh yea and this ISN'T off topic.

The topic is WHAT HAS USA DONE TO RUIN YOUR LIFE. AND YOU GO OFF ABOUT IRAQI WAR AND HEALTH CARE.

Yes, I heard about the armor "crisis". They did not build enough armored trucks for National Guard units, because they did not estimate the level of insurgency that would arise. That's the only thing you have come up with in your post. I want to know other MANY REASONS why this war was so HORRIBLY planned. You sited one thing, that has been beaten up by LIBERAL MEDIA because they have nothing else to say.

Oh, and if you are UNEMPLOYED. That is not MY PROBLEM. Go and find yourself a JOB. My parents came to this country with NOTHING, and we started working right away. Me included, since I was 16 to make a living. We never took a cent from this country. And I will NOT pay for UNEMPLOYED SHMUCKS. Do you want to? Go ahead. I will pass.

Oh and the topic of this thread was WHAT HAS USA DONE TO RUIN YOUR LIFE. So your post was COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC, unless you come up with a REALLY good reason REALLY fast.

Fat chance of that happening.

...

oh [IMAGE] it, someone might as well say it.

America has ruined my life because the internet is now filled with over-confident supercillious arrogant big headed cocky egotistical pretentious annoying patronaged 16-24 year olds who can't seem to evade a conversation about their countries politics or religious aspects that go into the needless and boring depths topics' like this one provides.

Not naming anyone specific, as there are indeed alot of them and not just here.

Sometimes, I just want the wars and the religions and the adam sandler movies to just pass me by without my attention or knowing!

Can I quote you on that last part?

Go nuts luv. By the way, have you actually noticed i'm making an amatuer comic featuring you? Check the bloody fan art section.

Holy crap. o_O I'll take a look. Thanks for the quote!

This entire thread is useless. Good work BMF, you've wasted everyone's time with your orgasmically pro-American bull[IMAGE] like Elephant, Palloco and Geologist?an embodiment of America, then yes i do hate America, and will march down the street chanting it until my feet bleed and my vocal chords break. But i know that not every American is as ignorant and egocentric as you.

Im sorry i had to resort to brute force to make you realise how much of a tool you are BMF, but ive come to realise that you dont respond to reason as a civilised person normally would. You label people America-haters just because they dont agree with you. You remind me so much of your president. You are a true patriot BMF, pitty you think everyone else should be too.

I dont hate America and am far from what i would call an America-hater, but i will never be an American-worshipper. And no matter how much you try to bludgeon me into subbmission with your stubbornness and your insults you will never make see America from your eyes. Sorry to tell you that BMF, but you need a wake-up call.

Just because I happen to agree with BMF on some accounts doesn't mean I'm sucking his cock. Could you exagerate a little more please? No? Then be quiet.

You can understand poor BMF's reason though. America does take alot of opinionated flak. More than any other nation. Even France.


Sometimes, I just want to give all of America a big hug. MMMmmmmm...

After seeing that comic, I'll give you a hug Chakra.

Edit: A big 'ol hug.

quote:Originally posted by broken_gerbilUSA has never ruined anyones life in these forums, because dead people can't post.


i cant agree more :p

quote:Originally posted by BMFThe topic is WHAT HAS USA DONE TO RUIN YOUR LIFE.


I don't see you telling us stories about how the USA ruined your life, all I see you doing is disagreeing with other people's points and telling people to tell you about how the USA ruined their lives or stop "spamming". So how about you tell us how the USA ruined yours, since you're still posting.

/me watches the point fly over frogboys head

...Where did the point go?

Over your head silly.

broken gerbil I made this thread because I thought that nobody in this forum had a real reason to hate America. And I proved my point because nobody could come up with a valid reason. You live in your own little world where I am some foul-mouthed brain-washed media propaganda tool. Dude, I would not even START any discussions in here, if you just asnwered the DAMN QUESTION.

Did America ruin YOUR life? NO. Then SHUT THE HELL UP, and GET OUT OF THIS THREAD.

You HATE the USA, but you can't even tell me WHY. I know WHY, because you are an IDIOT. But this is not what this thread is about. I am trying to find people who had the life ruined by the horrible USA. So far there are none. Or their comments had been lost in the flood of hate from dumbasses like you.

quote:Originally posted by broken_gerbilUSA has never ruined anyones life in these forums, because dead people can't post.

I dont hate America and am far from what i would call an America-hater
quote:Originally posted by BMFYou HATE the USA, but you can't even tell me WHY


Oh i dont recall saying i HATE the USA BMF. Now you're just putting words in my mouth.

Im gonna pay no heed to your insults and immature jibing, and shall spam this thread with yet another post. This thread isnt much good for anything else but slinging insults now BMF, because you've already proved your point that USA has ruined no Soldat Forum members life. Congratulations. Now go have your well deserved tug infront of the mirror.

As I said before, something doesn't have to ruin your life for you to hate it. If the point of this thread is to stop people from whining about the USA because it hasn't ruined their lives, it's not going to solve anything...people can easily hate something that hasn't affected them directly. Asking if the USA has ruined your life is stacking the deck horribly.

I agree with spectral here.
Also, most peeps dont even hate the US whatever the jargon is. Someone saying that "Bush is [IMAGE]ing retarded for going into Iraq" usually doesnt mean that that someone actually thinks Bush is retarded, its an exaggeration.

Anyways, empathy is a basic emotion, its when you understand how someone else feels. I can imagine the horror of living in indonesia and having lost all your relatives. The disaster has not affected me personally other than that my friend got his house washed away, but, since I only feel sorry for him, its not valid according to the reasoning stressed in this thread by the creator?
Its even less valid feeling sorry for the victims of 9/11 , 'cause, it didnt affect me personally or anyone I know of.

Doesnt make sense, Ill just continue loathe fundamentalism and aggressive foreign policys and feel sorry for disaster victims.

mariarchi how the hell do you manage to turn this around and inside out?? Of course when your friend's house was washed away, you have a right to hate the tsunami (what??). But it does not make any sense to HATE a tsunami because a tsunami is natural thing like snow or rain. And USA did not cause the tsunami. Jesus christ mariachi, did anybody said a word about tsunami victims in here?

Wow dude, what a way to spam a topic.

broken gerbil, in your post you said you don't hate USA. But when I read it I thought you said you DO hate USA. My bad dude.

quote:Originally posted by BMFThe topic is WHAT HAS USA DONE TO RUIN YOUR LIFE. AND YOU GO OFF ABOUT IRAQI WAR AND HEALTH CARE.

Dude. Did it ever occur to you the USA may have ruined my uncles life, because he could not afford healthcare, lost his job, and died in the streets two months later? Did it not occur to you it could have ruined my life because I lost two relatives in Iraq? Did it not occur to you it could have ruined some innocent Iraqi's lives by giving them DU poisoning and killing their families?

quote:Yes, I heard about the armor "crisis". They did not build enough armored trucks for National Guard units, because they did not estimate the level of insurgency that would arise. That's the only thing you have come up with in your post. I want to know other MANY REASONS why this war was so HORRIBLY planned. You sited one thing, that has been beaten up by LIBERAL MEDIA because they have nothing else to say.

Actually, that IS a pretty big thing. We should have realized that a man whos supporters are part of a group of maniacs willing to die for their hopeless cause, that they won't just lay down their guns and walk home. We should have realized this would be more of a Vietnam instead of a WWII/frontline war. EVERYWHERE is the frontline in Iraq. See, the US Military is the most elite fighting force in the world. No other army can stand up to us. We would ANHILLATE THEM, as we did to the few forces that actually stood up for a face to face fight. But our army is good at fighting other armies, not insurgencies. We need to use more Special Operations forces to combat the insurgents, not the regular army. Let the regular army occupy and rebuild; let the Special Ops seek and destroy.

You also stated another reason how this war was badly planned: They did not estimate the level of insurgency that would arise. Well, you know, providing one or two divisions of the highly trained, specialized elite Republican Guard Iraqi fighting force DISAPPEARED before the fall of Baghdad. They knew if they tried to stand up to our army, they would be completely destroyed. They knew their only hope was to wage a guerilla war and force the US to back out, leaving the country open for retaking.
We also failed to seal off the borders to Iran and Syria, and as much as 50% of the "Insurgents" are Syrian or Iranian. And I'm sure the LIBERAL MEDIA has exploited the troops tours of duty extendments.

Oh yea. Another thing that makes me p/o'ed is how Bush decides to listen to Rumsfeld instead of (I believe it was?) General Tommy Franks. On the issue of how many troops to send. Rumsfeld believed that we should send in a small, highly elite force to take the country, Tommy Franks suggested a larger force. Bush listened to Rumsfeld. This is completely dumb, how do you occupy a country with a force that small? Especially when we congragate our forces in one area for an attack. We need to disperse the forces more evenly (or just get some more damn troops over there). We send a HUGE, GODDAMN ARMY to Fallujah; the insurgents get the crap scared out of them and run to Mosul. While we're planting an Iraqi flag in Fallujah, the insurgents and blowing up Humvees in Mosul. It's pathetic! We should have learned their strategies by now.


quote:Oh, and if you are UNEMPLOYED. That is not MY PROBLEM. Go and find yourself a JOB. My parents came to this country with NOTHING, and we started working right away. Me included, since I was 16 to make a living. We never took a cent from this country. And I will NOT pay for UNEMPLOYED SHMUCKS. Do you want to? Go ahead. I will pass.

Did you come to this country when Bush was in office?

quote:Oh and the topic of this thread was WHAT HAS USA DONE TO RUIN YOUR LIFE. So your post was COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC, unless you come up with a REALLY good reason REALLY fast.


Come on now, we can make another thread about this, but you know BMF, we should be on the same side on this argument. I support this war, and I admit this war was fully justified, but we can't blind ourselves to the fact that many errors were made in the planning and execution of it.
And dude. Some of these things are undefendable. Just admit we made some dumb mistakes, and carry on. No need to argue the impossible.

I am HATING these little anti-American twelve year olds who can't back up their reasoning.

HATE HATE HATE. Isn't the US giving the second most amount of money to the Tsunami Aid, behind Japan? And we're bogged down in Iraq? How ironic.

quote:Originally posted by Marine
Dude. Did it ever occur to you the USA may have ruined my uncles life, because he could not afford healthcare, lost his job, and died in the streets two months later? Did it not occur to you it could have ruined my life because I lost two relatives in Iraq? Did it not occur to you it could have ruined some innocent Iraqi's lives by giving them DU poisoning and killing their families?


BLAH BLAH BLAH.. USA didn't ruin your uncle's life. Your uncle lost his job, well that's his problem and not mine. This country does not owe you jack but a chance to make it in life. He didn't make it I don't know why. You have to try REALLY hard to die on the streets in USA. My family moved to this country (4 years ago) with nothing, I started on my first job two weeks after I got off the boat. I never asked nothing from nobody. I pay for my school. My parents help me with the bills and whatnot. But if I lose my job and wind up on the streets, believe me, I will not blame this country.

You lost two relatives in Iraq? I know the draft is such a horrible thing! I mean people are forced into the military, that's just awful. Oh wait.. There is no draft. Your relatives volunteered into the military, and they died like heroes. They died so your lazy ass would not have to fight the wars. THEY volunteered ok, it was THEIR choice. I am shipping as soon as I am done with school. And if I die, I will not blame USA. Because I make my own decisions, I make my own choices, and I pay the price.
There are no free cheeseburgers. If you can't accept responsibility, you need to move the hell out of this country.



Ok, you are a damn fence sitter. Do you know what it takes to manage and operate a 130,000 force that is thousands of miles away in god-forsaken Iraq and Kuwait? Well, I don't know what it's like. All I know is that they have lost a little over 1300 people in Iraq in a year and a half. And I call that a successful operation. Yes, they made a mistake, they did not predict a level of insurgency before they were planning the operation (2 years in advance). Keep in mind, this is the best army in the world. With the best thinkers behind it. And what happened? They did not build 5000 extra Humvees. Ok, they have factories now producing a million armored Humvees a second. That's the ONLY real problem that the Army has encountered.

Nobody can predict what is going to happen with a 100% accuracy. You sound like a dumbass fence sitter. This is not the Vietnam war. We are not losing 10,000 a year. We are not purposely murdering innocent civilians and expect them to love us. Believe me, those planners in the Army are smarter than you or me. You can't plan for everything.

Whatever dude, this is just pointless.

What unit are you in?

Dude, in a war thats justification is very controversial, and for the fact that the state of the art armor we should have been using was not supplied, and that troops tours of duties were extended beyond their control, I don't think it's their fault they died. I look up..to you know...the cowboy who ordered them there.

I like how you find the ONE POINT about the war you can counter, and let the rest just...sit.

I am going DEP after this semester. So I am not in a unit yet. I am just running my mouth.

Sorry BMF, I thought the analogy would come across as correct.

My main point wasnt about the cause of peoples misery, it was about the fact that we have every right to feel sorry for what happens to other ppl, therefore making it in my perspective valid to argue from their point of view.

The swedish government castrated ppl back in the mid 1900s, took them a long time to confess that they did. I understand the gypsies (who was part of the group where women was castrated) grief with the swedish government both past and present for both doing it and not confessing it or compensating it.
I wasnt castrated (or was I ha ha ha), still, I share their grief to some extent.

I wasnt in any of the towers, but, I share the feelings towards Al Qaida to some extent.

Im not living in a refugee camp bombed by israeli choppers, but, I share the refugees feelings towards the israeli government to some extent.

My family hasnt been blasted away by suicide bombers, still, same there, I share the frustration of the israeli to some extent.

This time I hope the point will not be evaded.

quote:You lost two relatives in Iraq? I know the draft is such a horrible thing! I mean people are forced into the military, that's just awful. Oh wait.. There is no draft. Your relatives volunteered into the military, and they died like heroes. They died so your lazy ass would not have to fight the wars. THEY volunteered ok, it was THEIR choice. I am shipping as soon as I am done with school. And if I die, I will not blame USA. Because I make my own decisions, I make my own choices, and I pay the price.
There are no free cheeseburgers. If you can't accept responsibility, you need to move the hell out of this country.

I wouldn't dare to tell it was a soldiers choice to die in a war when he voluntary joined the army.

Just imagine, when a situation in the world became critical, became a war situation, a few people will decide to send troops to there. Now, imagine you're one of those soldiers and they just pointed you as a war-soldier, a soldier that will become in a war sitution, well, you'll NOT have the right to refuse, you'll NOT have a freedom of choice. If you declare, as a soldier, that you won't join the war, you will be forced to or you'll have to desert the army, which is of course penal, punishable !

So, a short summary, it's a choice to join the army, but for the love of God, it's not a choice to get involved in a war.

I'm pretty sure you heard the stories about deserting US soldiers seeking asylum in Canada cause they FEAR for their OWN life in the US.

Voluntary choice to go to war ? Yeah, right, try to make up stories better next time.

quote:Originally posted by BMF
There are no free cheeseburgers...you need to move the hell out of this country.


Not trying to offend anyone or pull things off topic, but I gotta admit..I love this. Can I quote you BMF?

quote:Ok, you are a damn fence sitter. Do you know what it takes to manage and operate a 130,000 force that is thousands of miles away in god-forsaken Iraq and Kuwait? Well, I don't know what it's like. All I know is that they have lost a little over 1300 people in Iraq in a year and a half. And I call that a successful operation. Yes, they made a mistake, they did not predict a level of insurgency before they were planning the operation (2 years in advance). Keep in mind, this is the best army in the world. With the best thinkers behind it. And what happened? They did not build 5000 extra Humvees.

Basically, we F-ED up. But it's too late to whine about it! We simply need to learn from our mistakes and put the past behind us. Every war has errors, but some of these were just...plain dumb. I think we did a good job planning, but some very dumb mistakes were made. A little too many for my comfort.

quote:Ok, they have factories now producing a million armored Humvees a second. That's the ONLY real problem that the Army has encountered.

No way.

quote:Nobody can predict what is going to happen with a 100% accuracy. You sound like a dumbass fence sitter. This is not the Vietnam war. We are not losing 10,000 a year. We are not purposely murdering innocent civilians and expect them to love us. Believe me, those planners in the Army are smarter than you or me. You can't plan for everything.

Yea, if they are the smartest, it seems like Bush aimed very low and settled for very little.

Geologist I can't believe you actually read through my post. I stole that phrase from somewhere else, so you can quote it all you want.


Pulp if you join the military, you sign a contract with the devil. You let others take complete control of your life, and in exchange you get an opportunity to kill other people. And also you get the benefits, and sign up bonus, and money for college. That's an all-volunteer army. You know the consequences beforehand. Once you are in the military, you do what they told you. Because that is how it works.

Volunteering for the Army is volunteering for war. Those assclows who deserted, and left the country need to be tracked down and brought before the tribunal. This is not 1960s, there is not draft. You go into the military, and you accept the responsibility. You sign your name under the dotted line, and you life is in the hands of others. Some people go reserve and National Guard because they get free education. And then they get sent to Iraq, so they start crying. Guess what, there are no cheeseburgers. You get what you signed up for.

Pulp judging from your posts you are still very young. Either that or you are midly retarded. People volunteer for war every day. Do you think that soldiers that get recruited daily do not realize there is a good chance they will get shipped to Iraq? It is a matter of honor, and duty, and paying your dues. You are used to everything being done for you. But believe it or not there are people who like to do things for themselves. There are people who like to fight their own battles.

And if some asswipe runs to Canada. Or refuses to deliver fuel. Or some other crap like that. He/she should rot in jail.





EDIT Marine I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you are right, maybe I am wrong. Maybe things would have been much different with another commander in chief. I don't know. We will just have to wait and see what happens I guess.

Oh things would have been much different with a another commander in chief. But who knows? The simple truth is this: The war was planned good, but we made some big ass mistakes in it. Just like any other war? These mistakes just seemed to blantantly stupid.

I guess we'll see how this turns out, anyway.

And I agree, those weiners who run to Canada, or reservists or National Guardsmen who sign up for the benefits then try to avoid getting shipped out, should face dire consqeuences. They just piss me off.

Being a soldier is just a job, BMF. Man, this is getting boring, i can perfectly predict your posts. I know there is a contract you sign, but i guess you also know that there is an interpretation of a contract.

You need to wake up, you're clearly to easily influenced by the propaganda on television, the paper, the things you hear. You're living in liberal democracy for Queens sake. The war is thousand miles away, there is no bloody chance that you will ever been blown away sipping coke on your desk while you earning money and becoming a so-called man. You live in a peacefully environment where the only chance being killed/murdered is by stitching in a cookie from Mary's Cookies cause she's still using too big pieces of sugar in her dough.
Stop the tough talking, you are totally not in the position to talk in that way. Become a man, shut your dirty mouth, and become a REAL man, a helping man, a man who isn't afraid to live.

Cause all what i see in your posts is 'FEAR', youngster.

Dare to live.

"There's this old American saying that applies well to Japan: There's no such thing as a free lunch. Well, there obviously is in America, otherwise they wouldn't all be so goddamn fat." -- Hiroshi Yamauchi

Pulp what have you ever done in your life besides eating your mom's dinners. As for me, I am shipping summer 2006.

i just dont like bush and his senators.
tv makes me think he USED the 11.9. to enlarge his respect and declare war to get oil fields -.-

quote:Originally posted by PulpJust imagine, when a situation in the world became critical, became a war situation, a few people will decide to send troops to there. Now, imagine you're one of those soldiers and they just pointed you as a war-soldier, a soldier that will become in a war sitution, well, you'll NOT have the right to refuse, you'll NOT have a freedom of choice. If you declare, as a soldier, that you won't join the war, you will be forced to or you'll have to desert the army, which is of course penal, punishable !


oh yea, its so weird for a US MARINE SOLDIER to think he's gonna be used as a war-soldier in wars!
it obviously should be something like this:

<US marine joins the army>
some high ranked dudes: ok, there's a war now and you're all being sent to iraq.
US marine: WTF??? i thought i'm here to play hockey. WTF ARMY SUX!!

right pulp?
---
i guess it IS like that in belgium. does belgium even have an army, pulp?
do you even know what you sign when you join the US army?
i'm positive you dont know, which makes your entire statement pointless.

US Marines and US Army are different branches of the military

Army, Marines, Air Force, and Navy



EDIT but yes Superkill summed up what i was trying to say

Although the US Army is a volunteer force, I don't have to point out a lot of soldiers come from poor rural backgrounds and see the military service as the only way to get a job or a college education...

It's just how you see it, most situations are not as simple as they may look.

Oh and, SuperKill, instead of investing tons of money in military we invest in social welfare, on you to decide what's the best.

Some facts. ( Feel free to interprete )

Israel:

Military expenditures - dollar figure:
Definition Field Listing Rank Order
$9.11 billion (FY03)

Military expenditures - percent of GDP:
Definition Field Listing Rank Order
8.7% (FY02)

Population below poverty line:
Definition Field Listing
18% (2001 est.)

Belgium:

ilitary expenditures - dollar figure:
Definition Field Listing Rank Order
$3.999 billion (2003)

Military expenditures - percent of GDP:
Definition Field Listing Rank Order
1.3% (2003)

Population below poverty line:
Definition Field Listing
4% (1989 est.)

( source : www.cia.gov )
( GDP = gross domestic product )

anyone see our 2004 election that's not in the US/Canada? I want to know how it looked like from an outsider's perspective. could you guys see the separation of ideas in parts of the country? Are your news networks familiar with the terms "red state/blue state"?

I dont want to sound like an ignorant american who's never stepped outta north america, and I know CNN's reaches are worldwide. But, how did the election in the US affect your life? I mean, unfortunately our reach is global, and in America we don't get any news outside of the country besides Iraq.

It's even hard to get foreign news that's about foreign things for the TV. We have to fetch things on the internet.

quote:Originally posted by Avaraxi just dont like bush and his senators.
tv makes me think he USED the 11.9. to enlarge his respect and declare war to get oil fields -.-


...what the hell?

Should I even reply to this statement, because it's overflowing with stupidity and ignorance?

Idiot. The legislative and executive branches are two different parts of government not controlled by either of eachother. And how did 9/11 help Bush get oil fields?

marine - now you know how i feel when m00 says that something about exploding a car and killing 80 innocent arabs ? ... or whatever that was.

pulp, no.
most people dont go to army to get a job or get richer, that's not the smartest way to become richer or have a job.
but even those that do go to army to get those goals, they know perfectly well the chances of getting involved in a combat or being sent to a forreign land due to a recent war.

now about the fundings of all those armies you pointed out, i wasnt asking you why doesnt belgium have an army, i was asking - if belgium doesnt have an army, why do you think you can get into an american's minds and reach his thoughts about their army? exactly, you cant

and a honest friendly question, i didnt realise what exactly you want to point out in that comparision you showed, since the population before poverty for israel and belgium are diffrent in those ways:

18% (2001 est.)
4% (1989 est.)

correct me if i'm wrong but isnt it alittle irrelevent to judge by data from 16 years ago ?

Poverty rate is still lower then 5 perc. , SuperKill.

quote:"pulp, no.
most people dont go to army to get a job or get richer, that's not the smartest way to become richer or have a job.
but even those that do go to army to get those goals, they know perfectly well the chances of getting involved in a combat or being sent to a forreign land due to a recent war."

My word versus your word. I know I'm right cause that's the situation in the US. ( I was talking about the US army as you'll obviously have noticed )

quote:now about the fundings of all those armies you pointed out, i wasnt asking you why doesnt belgium have an army, i was asking - if belgium doesnt have an army, why do you think you can get into an american's minds and reach his thoughts about their army? exactly, you cant

I'm pointing out that .. with the FACT there is still a quite large group of people that live in poverty the government STILL decide to invest 8,7 pct of their GDP in military. ( Belgium only invest 1,3 pct of their GDP in military with a much lower poverty-rate. )
It's on you to interprete this. If you find that ok or not.

You know what the funny thing is, SuperKill. You'r saying we don't have to believe the papers, the television about the situation in Israel. You're saying that journalists talk complete nonsense and even manipulate images.
Now, let me ask you one question, SuperKill.

How do YOU know anything about the situation in the US ?

Exactly, you believe the journalists, the israelian news, the israelian paper to give you an objective view about the situation in the US, in Iraq. The same journalists who also report about Israel.
( It's very important to understand this )


Have a nice day.

hah, lame try to convert what i'm saying against me.
well guess what, a close relative of mine was a marine.

you havn't answered to the second quote.

and,
"My word versus your word. I know I'm right cause that's the situation in the US."

lol, and after saying things like that do you still wonder why i keep name you as idiotic, childish and retarded?

quote:well guess what, a close relative of mine was a marine.

Come on, man, for the love of God, give me one serious response to what I'm saying.

quote:you havn't answered to the second quote.

Euh, I actually did.

quote:and,
"My word versus your word. I know I'm right cause that's the situation in the US."

lol, and after saying things like that do you still wonder why i keep name you as idiotic, childish and retarded?

Lol, this is getting too funny.
You don't have to disagree with everything I'm saying, SuperKill.
It's JUST A FACT that in certain rural backgrounds a military job is one of the only opportunities to get a 'decent' job, point.

It's not me versus you, I'm just trying to exchange some thoughts.

I wonder what your reply will be now. :)

ofcourse its a FACT, i never said its not true = i never said its not a FACT.
if you consider all the reasonable ways today to get a decent job, you'll notice alot more options sound much better then getting in the army, that was my point.

you havn't answered to what i said about;
you cant get in an american's mind.
the original question was - "do you know what you sign when you join the US army?"
too hard to answer that in a simple yes or no?
but anyway, you already showed you dont know, but you cover that with all the diffrent facts about belgium that nobody even cares about.

i'm not disagreeing with everything you say, just the most of it.. since your opinions are so messed up.
"It's not me versus you"
jesus christ you're nuts.

and what's so weird about what i said at first?
you have a hard time to believe i have a close relative that was a marine?

well i'm off for now.

But of course you sign a contract that says you can't desert the army, you have to go to the war if some people decide you have to go, that's not the point.
What i say is, you SHOULD have the right to decide as a soldier to break your contract, in a legal way, when there is no way to justify a war. There is no point, for ME, in being just another nameless martyr in a useless war. (I'm not talking about the war in Iraq or Israel, i just sketch a hypothetic situation.)

quote:and what's so weird about what i said at first?
you have a hard time to believe i have a close relative that was a marine?


Well, i don't have to point out the meaning of one man isn't enough to base an whole opinion on a situation, i think.

aprilninety, igonorant assholes like you don't get any news outside the country. I go to CNN.com every day, and get the news from there. What a dumbass, jeez.

Pulp are you seriously comparing the military bidget of Belgium and Israel? When was the last time Belgium was attacked? And by the way, military is never your only option. USA is not some third world country. I don't take any of that crap. If some 18 year old dude signs up for the military, because he has nothing else to do, it's because he is a dumbass who barely got out of high school.

" aprilninety, igonorant assholes like you don't get any news outside the country. I go to CNN.com every day, and get the news from there. What a dumbass, jeez."

^
|----- Why I hate the USA, breeds "civilized" westerners like those.

you misunderstood.

And that's why no one likes politics here in the bay area: afraid to get attacked by "politically-minded" people like you.

Sorry, if that hurt.

Yeah I am Russian. If you read any other posts in this thread, you would already have known that. Instead you come in here and make some random ass post, without even reading the rest of it.

so yeah, I am a "westerner", whatever the hell that means. And don't worry about the fact that I grew up in Russia.

quote:What i say is, you SHOULD have the right to decide as a soldier to break your contract, in a legal way, when there is no way to justify a war.?

Dude? So some [IMAGE]ass signs up for the military to get the benefits, and he ditches out when a war begins?

No. Definitely no. If you join the military, you make a committment, and you better be able to uphold that.

quote:What i say is, you SHOULD have the right to decide as a soldier to break your contract, in a legal way, when there is no way to justify a war. There is no point, for ME, in being just another nameless martyr in a useless war. (I'm not talking about the war in Iraq or Israel, i just sketch a hypothetic situation.)

no, simply no.
a contract is a contract. one of the reasons that USA got a strong army and belgium doesnt, is that probably in USA, people understand the importance of the army and what you sign on.
while in belgium, people like you (will) whine about contracts.

quote:
Well, i don't have to point out the meaning of one man isn't enough to base an whole opinion on a situation, i think.

uhm, you too are just one man. why are you being a hypocrite and say you cant base a whole opinion on a situation as a single man, when that's what you're trying to do?
besides, there was no arguement behind the fact that i stated about having a marine relative.
you accused me of hearing and believing too much to the global media, i showed you that's not true because i heard it from a reliable source. yes pulp, a marine soldier, that can be found around many other marine soldiers, and actually (unlike you) know what's going on in there, is a reliable source.

Some people base their opinion on SEVERAL reliable sources, SuperKill.
For me a US Marine (especially when he's still working for the US Army) isn't most likely an objective information source, but hey, it's on you to find that out, on you to find what you believe or not.

I hereby withdraw me out of this pointless "conversation". For me this feels like talking to a wall, and i'm pretty sure you feel the same, SK. You obviously understand not one thing from what i'm trying to say, and I, by myself, don't understand any of your arguments nor your logic.

May the Lord be with you in all the further decisions you'll (have to) take.

So long.

Pulp do you even read anybody's responses, except for yours? I just said in this thread, right before one of your posts, US Marines and US Army are entirely different parts of the US military.

You don't understand SK's logic?? Well maybe it is because you DON'T READ ANYBODY ELSE'S POSTS? So long dumbass, go talk in front of a mirror or something, I am sure you love the sound of your own voice.

I meant US Military instead of US Army. Simply a detail.

Believe me, i do read (probably as the only one) anybody else's posts, and try to understand what they're saying, as i said, just a little mistake by me, calm down.

Ok, yeah they are easy to confuse

BMF for the love of god, its obvious that pulp at least tries to reason. If the only way you feel you can make a difference in a discussion is by cheap shots like the one above, only commenting on things where you can point out what you perceive as a flaw, the constructive debate is lost, and, trying to reason with you is like feeding caviar to a pig.

mariachi you are an idiot, I already apologized to him. If you are not following the discussion at all, then go and post somewhere else. So far you made one post on the previous page that was complete gibberish. If you say that I do not build my argument, than you have no brain. If you say I am overly aggressive and I make you want to cry, well that's too bad. This is how I argue, if you don't like it get the hell out.

As far as giving caviar to a pig, I already fed your mom this morning. By the way, I never insulted you before.

Check a little closer on the time of my post and the time of your excuse, and you will see that there is a fat chance that I didnt see your excuse when I posted.
So, now its my turn to make an excuse to you and I allready offered u an explanation.

How you fail to see the relevance in my two posts with the same point is beyond me.

Even though you may be asking for personal reasons for hatred of the US, as in things that has happened to the individual, I argue that empathy for those who fall in that cathegory is a sufficient reason.

And, im not offended by the plethora of curses or a joke about my mom, im offended by the lack of constructivity. It always ends up as a trench war, two sides lobbing whatever they can find at eachother.

Well I do see you point somewhat. In any case, I made my arguments a long time ago, and this thread had gone to hell around page three.

hmm, Ill happily agree with u on that one BMF.