Gen. Gustav Hagglund of Finland, the chairman of the European Union Military Committee: "We don't know if the United States will have forever the resources, or the interest, to defend Europe".

I suggest that all Europeans (Estonians included) start thanking the US for keeping you safe...

To keep Europeans safe...from what? Actually the internal problems in some europeans countries are far more dangerous than any outsider menace. And US had neither done anything nor could do to solve foreign problems

are you trying to start another whose-balls-r-bigger debate?

Gustav Hagglund? never heard of him. And he's finnish?

Do i care? no one would touch us. The US didnt even donate that much money to Asia

quote:Originally posted by pallocoTo keep Europeans safe...from what?


eeh.. aliens?

Oh, aliens, well if aliens ever reached this planet or they would either exterminate us without problem or they would let us alone.

That is why EU exists, because we dont get along well with each other...

Allow me to provide a more sophisticated response to the few who will understand.

The reason you have not heard of this highly respected General, is because he represents a body that is almost nonexistent. In fact, the use of ?EU? and ?military? in the same sentence is laughable to begin with.

Concerning the threats this General is addressing, I trust that the Chairman of the European Union Military Committee, is more informed than any of us as to what threats those might be.

To conclude another rather dull response; cooperation is more than just giving a group of countries the same name. In this case you call it the ?European Union?. A ?Union? means that all bodies assist each other, whereas in this case, each country still holds its personal interests above those of the ?Union?. A successful implementation of the ?Union? concept can be seen in the United States of America.

You live in [IMAGE]ing poor Israel supported by the US goverment what do you know about Europe?!§?!?!?

quote:Originally posted by IDF-RIPstaIn fact, the use of #8220;EU#8221; and #8220;military#8221; in the same sentence is laughable to begin with.
In fact, the use of #8220;Palestinians#8221; and #8220;military#8221; in the same sentence is laughable to begin with. Yet many israelies die because of them. You can continue laughing because I suppose you know EU military is much larger than Palestinian's


quote:Originally posted by IDF-RIPstaA successful implementation of the #8220;Union#8221; concept can be seen in the United States of America.
That is why they had the secession war, because it was successful.
You cant really expect an union of this type to get implemented so quickly without the use of force. Specially ,as I said before, when there are countries with very serious internal problems like Spain.

The Soviet Union has been dead for almost 15 years now. Without an external threat Europeans can possibly protect themselves. Unless they start another World War. And United States will always have to step in if there is Genocide going on in the world or in Europe. It is a well known fact that the European nations prefer to sit with thumbs up their asses than do anything. (Think Serbia, Kuwait '91, Sudan, Somalia, etc.)

quote:Originally posted by ClanKwHDo i care? no one would touch us. The US didnt even donate that much money to Asia

We're to busy buying McDonalds.

Hey Vid3o, how much money did you donate to the tsunami victims? I am just a college student, but i wired 40 dollars over the internet to Red Cross. How much money did YOU donate? You little ungratful illiterate f&ck. How much did your FAMILY donate to the victims? I don't think USA should donate any money AT ALL, it all has to come from private donations.

ClanKwH, have you heard about the Cold War? It's that thing that has been going between USA and Soviet Union for maybe 50 years, and Soviets lost. Well, USA spent hundreds of billions of dollars on it. They were stationed all over Europe so that Soviet tanks would not roll all the way out to Portugal.

Have you heard of war in Kuwait in 1991, or the bombing of Yugoslavia? Those were two little wars where USA stopped a dictator from killing innocent people. USA spent about 80 billion dollars on both of those wars. And let me tell you something, the EU were sitting with thumbs up their asses all the time.

You little asshole, USA does not owe you a cent. On your own time, go and check how much private donations come from USA to the tsunami victims. And how much humanitarian aid USA provides to the world.
If you are too lazy I can tell you. Last year 40% of all the humanitarian aid in the world came from USA. So shut you damn mouth, crawl back into your hole and die. Next time before posting open a web site and read, because you make me very mad.

quote:Originally posted by pallocoTo keep Europeans safe...from what? Actually the internal problems in some europeans countries are far more dangerous than any outsider menace. And US had neither done anything nor could do to solve foreign problems


Dude...you must really have your head in your ass. Do you remember the little "war" that occured in Europe, 50 years ago? The 60 million people who died? The millions of dollars in aid given by the US to European nations that was never repaid?

The world owes us everything. If it weren't for the US you'd all be speaking German.

quote:Originally posted by ClanKwHDo i care? no one would touch us. The US didnt even donate that much money to Asia


Are you nuts? Are you an idiot? We've donated the second most amount of money (behind Japan) the same time we're bogged down in Iraq. Ironic, isn't it?

Oh yea, we also sent AN ENTIRE CARRIER TASK FORCE over there, which is worth a lot in an out of itself.. And whos the one distributing the majority of the aid?

You're right, the US of A.

And anyway, whats this Finnish guys point? That the EU needs to create some superarmy?

And I have to agree with BMF here; the US is always halting a genocide or repulsing some illegal invasion while the rest of the world is wacking off to Michael Moore or whining about there being too many McDonalds.

Just SHUT UP and open a history book; you'll see the US has done more than you've imagined for the world.

Oh jesus christ, not another [IMAGE]ing debate.

ClanKwH, wild assumptions will get you nowhere. You know nothing about Israel; hence, I suggest you either study the subject or refrain from making such comments.
I lived in Germany for over 10 years. My education is mostly German.

I needn't remind you that any nation can suffer casualties at the hand of terrorists.

But if, hypothetically speaking, we were to pit any European nation against Israel, which do you think would win? I think there is no need for guessing; the odds are clearly in our favor.

There was also a small interference in Kosovo, as I recall... well... it wasn't small, after all... you did need the US forces because you simply could not handle a bunch of barbarians with AKs. Does that sound familiar, ClanKwH? Maybe your useless industries should start developing a sort of Viagra for military deficiencies.

With all points raised, I still don't see Europeans thanking the US for their efforts to keep them safe.

By the way, The General meant to say that Europe needs defense plans of their own.

Marine will you marry me

Build your armies, mass your tanks and troops...but there's one thing no union can stand up to (not even the mighty man love between Marine and BMF). That would be the power of geology! The rocks you look down on every day will outlast you all, and they laugh about it! Oh yes, they laugh...but they also grow vengeful, and demand...no, thirst for the blood of all of you non-believers! Be warned! Be warned! Praise be to the syenite and its lack of all things quartz...

The Geologist, I expected a more serious response from you...

Let's all stand back, and watch a million Muslims with sticks and stones march to Berlin, overthrow the government and cover all women in black fabric from head to toe.

I personally, think that the US should remove all its troops from Europe, apply financial sanctions, and let the Europeans sink to third world countrymen. Mr. Donald Rumsfeld said it well, the EU can easily be called "Old Europe".

*thanks the states for being alive to this date*
*wonders if all retarted israelis play soldat*

quote:Originally posted by IDF-RIPstaThe Geologist, I expected a more serious response from you...



Heaven forbid someone try and add a little levity into yet another one of these threads before things degenerate into another name calling bash fest. I'm sorry...I'll withhold further comments, while you guys hash this one out, until I have something thoughtful to say.

told ya ;]


quote:Originally posted by Marinequote:Originally posted by pallocoTo keep Europeans safe...from what? Actually the internal problems in some europeans countries are far more dangerous than any outsider menace. And US had neither done anything nor could do to solve foreign problems


Dude...you must really have your head in your ass. Do you remember the little "war" that occured in Europe, 50 years ago? The 60 million people who died? The millions of dollars in aid given by the US to European nations that was never repaid?

The world owes us everything. If it weren't for the US you'd all be speaking German.




well actually if it weren't Pearl Harbor we'd all be speaking german. Thx Hirohito! :)

quote:Originally posted by Marinequote:Originally posted by pallocoTo keep Europeans safe...from what? Actually the internal problems in some europeans countries are far more dangerous than any outsider menace. And US had neither done anything nor could do to solve foreign problems


Dude...you must really have your head in your ass. Do you remember the little "war" that occured in Europe, 50 years ago? The 60 million people who died? The millions of dollars in aid given by the US to European nations that was never repaid?

The world owes us everything. If it weren't for the US you'd all be speaking German.

MArine, stfu and open an atlas. Germany and Italy are INSIDE Europe.

quote:Originally posted by palloco

MArine, stfu and open an atlas. Germany and Italy are INSIDE Europe.


Your point being?

Read what i said and marine reply

quote:The world owes us everything.

No, you owe Europe, because chances are the USA as we know it wouldn't exist without Europeans settling there.

Anyway, stop with the [IMAGE]ing debating, there are 2 or 3 threads open with debates at the moment. Surely even one is enough, considering most of these are on almost the same subject.

Back to the topic: UE is a union that pretty much no one wanted or cared about, except people that would gain from it economically, that is banks and international traders. It's not like the USA, we don't have the same culture, ideals, language or anything. Beside the commercial aspect, it has no point.
In a time where we look forward to global peace you suggest to start having a globalized army, for no reason? Great idea.

quote:Originally posted by pallocoquote:Originally posted by IDF-RIPstaIn fact, the use of #8220;EU#8221; and #8220;military#8221; in the same sentence is laughable to begin with.
In fact, the use of #8220;Palestinians#8221; and #8220;military#8221; in the same sentence is laughable to begin with. Yet many israelies die because of them.

so?
i can also kill a person, does that mean anything? no.
stop being an idiot palloco, killing people doesnt make you an army.

From dictionary.com
Army: A large body of people organized and trained for land warfare.
warfare: The waging of war against an enemy; armed conflict.
Military operations marked by a specific characteristic: guerrilla warfare; chemical warfare.

I see lots of people, I see training for land warfare, I see weapons, I see tanks, I see missiles. SK, I may be an idiot but you are blind.

i'm not sure what you're trying to say.. try to be more clear cause personaly i'm sick of you talking in puzzles.

are you talking about the palestinian army? if so, where exactly do you see tanks ? o.O

Just to protect the readers of this topic for further nonsense.

quote:...or the bombing of Yugoslavia? Those were two little wars where USA stopped a dictator from killing innocent people.

Not America did, the NATO did. ( Ironically the NATO didn't prevent them from bombing, but bombed them cause of the civil war, Slobodan Milosevic, etc. The NATO bombed Yugoslav targets, Albanian fighters continued to attack Serbian forces and Kosovo Serb civilians, and Serbian/Yugoslav forces continued to fight Albanian rebels. )

To find out more, I'm sure you will, read this :

http://home.zonnet.nl/gerardvonhebel/yugoslavia.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_War

I wonder why you feel there is much to debate about in the first place.
Your own General, in charge of the EU's military, said so openly. So why not simply give in and admit that you know nothing in this matter, instead of resolving to European arrogance...

Your nations contribute nothing to this present day world. Why do you even bother arguing the point?
Name one recent UK contribution to the planet of ours. Maybe a French contribution? I know one... funding of Saddam Hussein's Iraq, establishment of business ventures in old Iraq, "strong" opposition against freeing the people of Iraq due to fear of losing those business ventures.

As for 2wai clan members, I'm starting to believe that you find it hard to formulate more than two sentences. Given that your mother-tongue is English... I think it's safe to say that you are more likely to be mistaken for a retard...

Keep in mind that a difference in opinion, especially a well formulated one, marks me out to be much more informed in the matters I choose to discuss, whereas your childish response, that probably indicates your hatred towards Israelis in general, shows that you know less than nothing and should therefore refrain from posting.

Ironically NATO is U.S. created puppet alliance to oppose the Soviet Union during the Cold War.

Sorry, i mixed 2 things:
PAlestinian army:I see lots of people, I see training for land warfare, I see weapons.
Israeli army: I see lots of people, I see training for land warfare, I see weapons, I see tanks, I see missiles.

ok Look at this Germany got a much better army than the US

ok look at this clankwh is a comedian

i hope it was a joke

quote:Your nations contribute nothing to this present day world. Why do you even bother arguing the point?
Name one recent UK contribution to the planet of ours. Maybe a French contribution? I know one... funding of Saddam Hussein's Iraq, establishment of business ventures in old Iraq, "strong" opposition against freeing the people of Iraq due to fear of losing those business ventures.

As for 2wai clan members, I'm starting to believe that you find it hard to formulate more than two sentences. Given that your mother-tongue is English... I think it's safe to say that you are more likely to be mistaken for a retard...


With all respect, IDF-RIPsta, but this is complete nonsense.
I'll start with pointing out the last paragraph as a start. The 2Wai members involved in this conversation are Greek (n2j3), Swede (Mariachi) or Belgian (Pulp), I hope I don't have to say English isn't an official language in any of these countries. I also think our posts most of the time include quite a lot of sentences (you may duck in my archived posts) compared with the other posts i'm reading on this beloved forum.

Anyway, you completely lost me with the next sentence "Your nations contribute nothing to this present day world. Why do you even bother arguing the point?". I really hope when you read your own sentence again you'll understand immediately this is complete bollocks. As I like ( I seems to be the only one ) to prove my sayings, my thoughts with facts, i'll give you, foresee you, with the next information.

http://europa.eu.int/pol/agr/overview_en.htm , browse the left menu, and read, it'll take while, cause the EU is active in a lot of domains. Doing nothing to save our planet, you say ?

http://www.nato.int/ , Every European country is member of the NATO, go to the menu 'operations', and read. Doing nothing to save our planet, you say ?

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2062.html , an (uncomplete) overview of the yearly economic aid donor. Just to give you a 'view' on this. Visit http://www.oecd.org/ for more information. Doing nothing to save our planet, you say ?

http://ue.eu.int/cms3_fo/showPage.asp?id=248#9001;=en&mode=g & http://ue.eu.int/cms3_fo/showPage.asp?id=261#9001;=en&mode=g this probably will interest you more : ?Common Foreign and Security Policy? and the ?European Security and Defence Policy?. Again, have a browse and read.

And so I can go on for ages ?

I also feel the need to underline the fact that several countries ( Spain , The United Kingdom ?) were involved in the war in Iraq. I really don?t understand what you mean with ?Name one recent UK contribution to the planet of ours? , there is not any logic in pretending such things, especially not for the UK, at least if you see military contribution as a saving for this world, and i may assume from your other posts in this forum, you do.

Now, to the topic. I also do agree that the European Union is in need for a united army, or a defence force. Saying we?d be thankfull is a bit out of range in this case, as there was no American intervention in Europe for the last decades (the last intervention was in WW II, Note that Russia isn?t member of the EC so the Cold War isn?t a talk about here). The only reason I can see why General G. Hagglund is saying that we?d show acknowledgement for the US is for the fact that the US is fighting against terrorism to defend the ?western civilisation?. Cause I have certain doubts about the danger of terrorism in the EU and about the moral values of the western civilisation it would be wrong, for me, to be thankful.
I would also like to see the full speech of Gen. Hagglund and not just one sentence out of it, to see it in the right perspective.

Some pretty interesting URL?s about the europan defence, the European army:

http://www.iss-eu.org/chaillot/chai45e.pdf
http://www.ecsanet.org/conferences/ecsaworld3/seidelmann.htm

And if you would be so nice to check this url :

http://www.stopusa.be/home/texts.php?section=EA&langue=&Id=22573 , extremely interesting :)

Your friend resolved to pointing a general finger at the Israeli Soldat community. I took his childish nonsense to a lesser extreme and stated that all 2wai members are illiterate British. I did so merely to point out a pattern of behavior I do not support. I am aware that not all 2wai members are British.

I read the data in the sites you provided. Allow me to briefly list the contents and their concern to other nations except those of the EU:

Agriculture ? no concern
Audiovisual ? no concern and unimportant

Budget ? no concern except for ?Helping the Third World?. I would usually call this a significant contribution, if it weren?t for the opening statement: ?The remaining EU money?. How much? No one can tell.

Competition ? no concern
Consumers ? no concern

Culture ? The mere use of the word cannot be argued. Culture is of course present. It can be argued whether you can call it a contribution to the entire world.

Customs ? no concern

Development ? This chapter bears great importance. By the end of 2006, the EU and its member states will donate 39 billion Pound annually to poor countries. A sum that equals less than 0.002 of France?s GDP.
The site also claims that this figure is 0.34% higher than the contributions of the US. 0.34% of 39 Billion equal roughly 1.17 Billion. A figure I personally would not praise so highly. Also, the US has recently outdone all European contributions by 50% since the Tsunami disaster.
There is another interesting, yet very vague paragraph called ?Controlling their own destiny?. The meaning is unclear, and so are the means used for the purpose.

Economic and Monetary Affairs ? no concern
Education, Training, Youth ? no concern
Employment and Social Affairs ? no concern
Energy ? no concern
Enlargement ? no concern
Enterprise ? no concern

Environment ? no concern. Paragraphs worth mentioning are:
?Taking a broader view? ? no specifics, no figures and no plans were presented. I conclude this as a statement, not obligation.
?International challenges? ? again, no specifics and no figures.

External relations ? The largest figure is 10 Billion. All figures amount to 23 Billion, which also isn?t a figure worth mentioning.

External Trade ? It is obvious that one can purchase and sell certain products. I have no vast knowledge of European products, except vehicles, that might be used as export items. Nor does the chapter make specific reference to items of trade. There are 25 countries in the EU and all account for 20% of global exports and imports. That?s less than 1% per country. Global economy could do without 25 countries with 1% of the pie.

Fisheries ? no concern. There are many oceans and many fish. The fish in mention serve the EU only.

Food Safety ? no concern

Foreign and Security Policy ? no concern. Opinions without the military force to support them are meaningless and disposable.

Fraud ? no concern

Humanitarian Aid ? No substantial contributions. All figures amount to 0.6 Billion.

Human Rights ? no concern. Contents of ?A global force for human rights? were mentioned before.

Information Society ? no concern
Institutional Affairs ? no concern
Internal Market ? no concern. The name alone suggests so.
Justice and Home Affairs ? no concern. Same as above.
Public Health ? no concern. Contributions are too few to account for.
Regional Policy ? no concern

Research and Innovation ? Key quote: ?will help the EU catch up with the US and Japan?. The EU is once again lagging behind. 25 countries are lagging behind Japan. Almost all EU member states have made the top 25, I congratulate you.

Taxation ? no concern
Transport ? no concern

As you can clearly see, Pulp, most of the chapters europa.eu.int do not affect the world in any way. I suggest you read the contents of the sites you chose, before I move to the next.
I hope you took the time to read my reply, as I took the time to read all the nonsense in the link you provided.

IT'S ALREADY DOWN TO CHILDISH NAME CALLING, END IT, END IT NOW!

Hmm, as far as I see there was more then 1 url mentioned in my post, most of them concern non-eu countries.

Besides that I also have to point out that Israel due it's internal conflict isn't contributing at all to this present world. I hope you'll understand that the money spent in the conflict between Israelians and Palestines isn't saving in any way this world. It's a war of stubborn versus stubborn with no winner, it's absolutely not a gain-gain situation and will never be. I think you'll agree with me in this.

I still want to know what you meant with "Name one recent UK contribution to the planet of ours" , and I would also like to see the full speech of General Hagglund.

And if you can, I hope you can, you may try to explain how Israel contribute to this ('present') world, what Israel does and a EU-country doesn't. Cause that's still not clear for me.

Kindly regards,

Evan

The problem with donations promised by countries are that money is always promised, but, disturbingly often not paid. Kofi Annan stressed this point the last weeks, having in mind the actual amount of money received compared to that promised when an earthquake levelled an iranian city some years ago (might be a year ago, of lesser consequence the exact time though).

Also, if we are to go in a contest of who gives the most, is it fair to compare nation with nation? Is Bahrain evil with their two million dollar donation compared to the US massive 350 million dollar donation so far? Of course, Bahrain only has a population of about 600 k whereas the US has almost 300 millions.

http://blogger.xs4all.nl/marcone/archive/2005/01/03/19687.aspx

(incidently, the page has a discussion afterwards that resembles this one in ways)

For a per capita comparison, facts from CNN and CIA.

(1.19 dollars were given per US citizen since that seems to be the topic, norway gives about 40 dollars per capita, still, I wudnt say that the norwegians are 3500% nicer ppl than the americans, furthermore, the US has large presence with their army, something that is undoubtedly costly)

According to this list, germany has donated a staggering 680 million dollars, hmm... which is more than the US contribution, at least according to CNN.
Im curious about your sources, since u havent posted a single one yet. I know pulp posted a [IMAGE]load of links, and that u were commenting on the first one, but, really, did u go through all the areas and have the educated opinion that most of those things has no importance for the outside world?

Personally, Id say that every lil help is help, and, boasting about charity isnt what saving lives is about.

Since you made a poor excuse for calling us retarded, im going to let it go, it only contradicts the ludicrous bull[IMAGE] about you being "more well informed" and being "well formulated".
Furthermore, calling any1 in 2Wai an israeli hater is just crazy talk. The only post from one of our members that can be judged childish is probably n2j3s, and, that one was teeming with sarcasm. The simple reason for some of us not agreeing with you is that we have differing opinions and dont like being called arrogant by someone, judging from a few of his latest statements, is just that very thing. I call many of the israeli in the community good friends.

About fishy french business (heh, what a gimmick ;) ) in iraq I have no doubt that it might be true, as much as I doubt the good being done by the USA when sponsoring the talibans back when the soviet was the big enemy. Does that mean that both the USA and France is incapable of good deeeds? Not imho.

I read about the finnish general and his statement, and, to a certain degree i agree with him. Strange enough, he didnt seem to think that the US is protecting us as we speak since he was confident that the EU can handle any threat that comes our way. Im sure we couldnt stand against the might of the US army, but then again, we are mostly on friendly terms, and, both regions has nuclear weapons enough to kill every living thing a few times and the some. Us arrogant Europeans might be a lil deaderer than simply dead.

Had the US come to the rescue if pearl harbor hadnt happened? who knows, but, saying that it was an altruistic course of action is by no means correct. Did the US help? Sure they did, and, I think everyone is grateful about that.

Anyways, im off to bed now. Gotta hand in a big ass report in ecological theory and its applications on friday. And, sad to say, ecologically speaking, the world would probably be better off without europeans and americans alike. ;)

-edit-
Frogboy, you are probably right as always damnit.

the quest for the longest most reproaching post continues ...

quote:Originally posted by pallocoquote:Originally posted by Marinequote:Originally posted by pallocoTo keep Europeans safe...from what? Actually the internal problems in some europeans countries are far more dangerous than any outsider menace. And US had neither done anything nor could do to solve foreign problems


Dude...you must really have your head in your ass. Do you remember the little "war" that occured in Europe, 50 years ago? The 60 million people who died? The millions of dollars in aid given by the US to European nations that was never repaid?

The world owes us everything. If it weren't for the US you'd all be speaking German.

MArine, stfu and open an atlas. Germany and Italy are INSIDE Europe.


Dude...duh. I never said they weren't.

What the hell is your point? Post something worth replying to.

quote:Originally posted by frogboyquote:The world owes us everything.

No, you owe Europe, because chances are the USA as we know it wouldn't exist without Europeans settling there.


Irrevelant.

quote:Anyway, stop with the [IMAGE]ing debating, there are 2 or 3 threads open with debates at the moment. Surely even one is enough, considering most of these are on almost the same subject.


You BE QUIET, and go play some Soldat if you don't like it. Really, you're just an obnoxious turd at this point. Post something relevant to the discussion or get out.

EDIT: and palloco, the Palestiniants don't have a standing army. They have different factions and groups of militia.

EDIT2: The US military is the most efficient and effective army in the world, end of story, next case.

EDIT3: Yes BMF.

quote:*wonders if all retarted israelis play soldat*

Erm, it seems IDF-RIPsta is good at copying and pasting facts, analysing numerical data [obviously an avid calculator user] ,living each day as it comes. Never questioning the thousands of presuppositions his claims are based on, he nevertheless fails to distinguish a noun from an adjective and its attributive usage thereof. In my afformentioned quotation i distinguish Israeli players from retarted israeli players [even by implication]. Just wanted to be clear on this.

[edit - added a barretlovin' rhyme]
In the words of King Ghidra:
"Getting paid like a biker with the best crank,
spraying like a high-ranked sniper in the Westbank"

Haha, it's times like this I love being in the middle of nowhere.

LONG LIVE AUSTRALIA!!11

OUR LAND IS GIRT BY SEAAAAAAA
Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
bla bla bla bla bla blaaaaaa
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
Advance Australia Fair!

...I don't know the words ;_;

You would like the full speech of the General? Ask mariachi, your clan member.
If you search for the speech, you might find it. I personally, read it in a magazine. The speech dates 20 January 2004. I found it to be amusing, and obviously, it served the purpose.

To answer another question of yours, I believe you are mistaken. I never claimed that my country contributes anything, you on the other hand do. Aren't the Europeans the ones so comfortable in their arrogance and twisted notions of self-importance? Like I said, I doubt that you read the contents of the links you provided. Most of it is irrelevant to other nations.

My sole intention in quoting this General, was that people like yourself, see what senior officials in Europe think about the importance of the US to their safety. Some members of this forum openly criticize the US instead of thanking them. Since this thread shifted from my original intentions, I thought it would be wise to inform you.

I have no problem in expressing appreciation for the actions of friendly countries. I thank the US for helping us establish the strongest country in the Middle East. I thank all US citizens for their ongoing support and understanding. Without you, we would not be well. I understand that expressing appreciation is difficult for you.

As for n2j3, once again he has written an entire post with no substantial content. His hatred towards Israel can clearly be seen (by implication and quotation), yet I doubt he knows anything about Israel.
In regards to my English, it will never be perfect, but I assure you it is much better than that of most British. In my defense, English is not my native tongue.

Final remarks:
I'm not trying to convince anyone, since that would be futile.
I read the entire site. I used the facts and figures presented there.
I do not ask you to agree with me, as I explained before; this has nothing to do with agreeing.
This is my last post in this topic.

Good day Gentlemen,

L. Samuel M. Shemer

quote:This is my last post in this topic.
THANK YOU!

"Final remarks:
I'm not trying to convince anyone, since that would be futile.
I read the entire site. I used the facts and figures presented there.
I do not ask you to agree with me, as I explained before; this has nothing to do with agreeing.
This is my last post in this topic."

Id say that you are not trying to convince someone since you dont seem to be capable of doing that.

Furthermore, Im aware of the links that Pulp posted, I was asking what grounds you had for the claims that the EU and the countries therein did nothing. Or that France is the only nation with fishy business.

Once again you avoid the issues at hand. To interpret the generals word as the truth is silly. Its one man of power who said something, the union is full of ppl who disagree with eachother and this is no exception.

So, if the kind gentlemen would be so kind to hop down from his selfmade piedestal and actually join in on the discussion and stop hiding behind twisted, groundless authoritarian arguments, we just might start to take offence by being called retarded by a dimwit who have the stomach to talk about arrogance when he is proving to be THE single most arrogant poster on these forums.

--edit--
Oh, I just have to add that its such a classic saying that its the last post in a topic. Much like a child indeed.
And, where the hell do u get the notion that n2 (or me?) is an israeli hater? Dont cry wolf.

MArine, then why do u say th ww2 was an internal problem? Germany and Italy are inside Europe, not inside any country, I said "internal problems in some europeans countries". An dhow can I have my head in my ass and still being able to check this and write?

Militias can be part of an army, just like in Vietnam and different factions are not part of the palestinian army, it is just the OLP.

quote:Originally posted by pallocoMArine, then why do u say th ww2 was an internal problem? Germany and Italy are inside Europe, not inside any country, I said "internal problems in some europeans countries". An dhow can I have my head in my ass and still being able to check this and write?

Militias can be part of an army, just like in Vietnam and different factions are not part of the palestinian army, it is just the OLP.


I DID NOT SAY WW2 WAS AN INTERNAL PROBLEM, YOU IDIOT! You're the one who said that!

Why the hell are you trying to argue with me? The simple fact is, if America fell during WWII, the world would be the Axis's for the taking.

The Palestinians have no standing army, if they did, why are they resorting to suicide bombings and guerilla tactics? If they had a standing army you'd see gun battles in the streets involving tanks and jets and thousands of soldiers.

quote:Originally posted by Marine
I DID NOT SAY WW2 WAS AN INTERNAL PROBLEM, YOU IDIOT! You're the one who said that!


quote:Originally posted by Marinequote:Originally posted by pallocoTo keep Europeans safe...from what? Actually the internal problems in some europeans countries are far more dangerous than any outsider menace. And US had neither done anything nor could do to solve foreign problems


Dude...you must really have your head in your ass. Do you remember the little "war" that occured in Europe, 50 years ago? The 60 million people who died? The millions of dollars in aid given by the US to European nations that was never repaid?


quote:Originally posted by Marine
Why the hell are you trying to argue with me? The simple fact is, if America fell during WWII, the world would be the Axis's for the taking.
Learn the difference between fact and conjeture.

quote:Originally posted by Marine
The Palestinians have no standing army, if they did, why are they resorting to suicide bombings and guerilla tactics?
So you are saying that Japan in the ww2 did not have army because they were resorting to suicide bombings and guerilla tactics?

they did clearly have an army, they fought well in the beginning, then they got desperate and started to kamikazee.. that's something diffrent.

palestinians dont have an army palloco.. its a simple fact.
stop trying to be special and accept the simple fact.
if they had an army, this whole confrontation would be a war.

The whole confrontation is a war. When did you signed peace with them?
Or are you saying that they had not supported the several wars of nations like Siria and Lebanon aginst Israel. Israel signed peace with those nations but not with Palestine, therefore you are at war, and you are at war because there are armies.
Would you say that French retreated from Spain in 1812 because of the terrorists? Spanish had no more weapons than their own hands yet they forced French out. Some Spanish were against French and some not, there were diferent factions sometimes even attacking themselves. And was not this a war? Conditions are the SAME than in Palestine and Iraq. And it was called Independence war. If your leaders are saying yours is not a war it is because they dont know what war means.

ah, they dont know what war means.
the world doesnt know what war means, palloco does.

you know what, screw it.
i've got nothing to argue with you about, you've proven yourself to be utterly dumb the last few days.

I provided definitions. I provided demonstrations. I showed I am dumb

quote:Originally posted by pallocoquote:Originally posted by Marine
I DID NOT SAY WW2 WAS AN INTERNAL PROBLEM, YOU IDIOT! You're the one who said that!


quote:Originally posted by Marinequote:Originally posted by pallocoTo keep Europeans safe...from what? Actually the internal problems in some europeans countries are far more dangerous than any outsider menace. And US had neither done anything nor could do to solve foreign problems


Dude...you must really have your head in your ass. Do you remember the little "war" that occured in Europe, 50 years ago? The 60 million people who died? The millions of dollars in aid given by the US to European nations that was never repaid?


quote:Originally posted by Marine
Why the hell are you trying to argue with me? The simple fact is, if America fell during WWII, the world would be the Axis's for the taking.
Learn the difference between fact and conjeture.

....

Wrong. You're wrong again, and you fail to make any point or to reply to my arguments.

quote:Originally posted by Marine
The Palestinians have no standing army, if they did, why are they resorting to suicide bombings and guerilla tactics?
So you are saying that Japan in the ww2 did not have army because they were resorting to suicide bombings and guerilla tactics?


Japan had a standing army. Japan fought in the open. You don't use a standing army to fight a guerilla war.

Yes, they had guerilla fighters and kamikaze, but that was at the end of the war, when they were being decimated by the US.

Learn your history.

quote:Originally posted by pallocoI provided definitions. I provided demonstrations. I showed I am dumb

yes WRONG ones.

"Japan fought in the open."
ROFL. Maybe you should check Iwo Jima fights, to tell you an easy name to remember, or ANY of the hundreds of isles where Japanese were hidden on the jungle causing havoc on US army no matter how decimated they were.
I thought that people on US learned at least their own history.


SK, then tell me the correct ones

I have to agree with palloco on that note...Japanese strategy was on that island in particular invovled heavy fortifications within the rocks and terrain of the island itself. A moderate portion of the island itself (only 8 square miles or so according to a few links I've seen) had been tunneled out and fortified.

http://www.iwojima.com/battle/battlea.htm
http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/WW2Timeline/LUTZ/iwo.html

Isn't this getting off topic a bit...if there even is a point to this topic anymore, aside from demanding thanks?

quote:
Isn't this getting off topic a bit...if there even is a point to this topic anymore


good point

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