The map editor for Soldat is very poor.

-Instead of basing it on triangles (which can be combined to make any polygon), just use polygons... This would make making surfaces a lot easier. If you can't do that, make the vertex snapping much better. When I make a flat surface to walk on, the player gets stuck because one triangle is slightly higher than the other. Prevent that. Make snapping much more lenient.

-Make the grid actually useful. What use is the grid if is only relative to the view, and not the room itself. In other words, when you move the view, it moves with you.

-Make vertices snappable to the grid. This would aid in making perfect squares and such

-Make scenery easily deletable. In other words, you can select scenery you have already placed. In type boxes, you can enter how wide and tall it is, along with the transparency.

-Instead of ALT being the multiple polygon selector, have a drag box. Just like in windows, you click then drag a box, then let go. Everything in the box is selected.

-Have spawnpoints be selectable, like the scenery. Right now, you can only just delete them. You should also be able to select a whole group of them and move them, or copy and paste them.

-Have more options in general for maps. For example, bmp images should be able to be the background, instead of a lame two color gradient.

That's all I can think of for now.






EDIT* If you really want to be advanced with this thing, and add a whole new creative range to map designers, follow this suggestion.

-Have more options with polygons. Instead of having a dropdown box for the settings like "normal", "ice", and "lava", have a list for each polygon for the characteristics. The possible characteristics should be as follows:

--red players collide
--blue players collide
--red bullets collide
--blue bullets collide
--heals red
--heals blue
--hurts red
--hurts blue
--kills red
--kills blue
--frictions red
--frictions blue
--red can slide (like ice)
--blue can slide

So for example what is now called a "normal" polygon, would (with this system I came up with) be a polygon with the "red players collide", "blue players collide", "red bullets collide", and "blue bullets collide" characteristics. Follow me?

This would make map making much more fun, but do you think it would not be fun to play? Would it make things overly complicated to play? Would players be frustrated when they go to attack someone and find out that it was secretely a blue bullets collide polygon, for example?







The game itelf is well designed, although I think there should be a built in self destruct key. This way you could make a hard decision to make yourself explode. You'd kill yourself, but possibly many others.

Super N00b

Moved to map maker suggestions.

Michal released the source code of the map maker. There already are a few alternative map editors now, but I'm not sure how far they got.

In the end you can still do it yourself, if you're that desperate.

Mmm, i like new polys options :P

Games like Soldat, with terrain which has completely manipulationable slope, are programmed to function on triangular polygons and cannot be have any greater # of vertices, although I do agree it'd be cool...

I love the idea of vertices snapping perfectly to grid B-)

I don't think a .BMP background is needed. Rather, it'd be awesome if the gradient could be four, two for the left & right!

A drag box could really ruin maps, so undo should also undo polygon movement [if it doesn't already].

I love the idea of selectable spawn pts. and scenery. I hope these can be implemented.

quote:Originally posted by b00stAMichal released the source code of the map maker. There already are a few alternative map editors now, but I'm not sure how far they got.

In the end you can still do it yourself, if you're that desperate.
I think, that he can't. Because he's Super N00b.

quote:Originally posted by Super N00b
--red players collide
--blue players collide
--red bullets collide
--blue bullets collide
--heals red
--heals blue
--hurts red
--hurts blue
--kills red
--kills blue
--frictions red
--frictions blue
--red can slide (like ice)
--blue can slide


hmm this things can't change by the map maker.. its the engine of soldat were u have to add this...

but thats i like very much, allways'll fight for more options in soldat ;)

most of the other idias looks like if they are able to realize.

again... like them

Suggestions, the final list I'd say:

-Now I know what you're saying about the polygons. Everything is based on triangles, not polygons. So like I said, make snapping better.

-Also make it an option for vertices to snap with other vertices, the grid, or not at all.

-The undo and delete options for the spawn points and flag points are stupid. That whole menu should be a drop down menu like the one for the type of polygon (kill, hurts, heals, etc). Only one can be selected. Then simply have a mode (it should be up there in the tabs with polygons, scenery, and info, and paths) where one can select, create, and move these things. As for polygons with the control+rightclick = delete, have it for spawn points as well.

-When a polygon is made with no width (by accident), there's no way to select it again. A couple of maps I made were ruined. I accidetally made a thin triangle, that showed in the compiled map, but couldn't be selected in the editor. Possible an option should be available to select a certain number polygon.

-The lines that show that a triangle is selected are horrible. They're not solid or crisp. You can't really see where an edge ends.

-When you zoom in really far, clicking becomes askewed significantly.

-Scenery is not selectable. To create a scenery ibject, it should be control+leftclick like everything else is (inconsistencies like this are horrible). Then, instead of being judged on how you drag it, you can simple type in the width and the height it should stretch to. And color should be changable too. Rotation should be judged by the dragging of a click, but also editable later. Also, it's stupid to have to delete something and remake it all over again cause you chose the wrong color. Then when you complile, it makes these changes permanent like always, so no changing of the actual soldat engine is required. And again, clicking delete first then clicking on the scenery object is stupid. Control+rightclick man.

-Paths. Just make the lines connecting points... neater. And by the way, the lines shouldn't really be colored, the points should, since the bot collides with points, not lines, to change actions.

-As for the action set up I mentioned... forget about it. It would require changing the actual soldat engine code. I didn't mean it for the map editor, I actually meant it for a future Soldat version possibly.

-No, now that I think about it, bmp backgrounds are stupid. 4 color gradients aren't too useful either.

-Yes, undo should undo polygon movement.

-Here is one suggestion that actually would require some engine changing of soldat. Make it possible to set the depth (z axis position) of triangles. Also make it possible to set the depths of scenery items; though I don't think this would require changing of the actual engine, just the map maker.




So there you have it. It's pretty screwed up. It's obvious it was hastily made. It was a pain to think all this through and make the right suggestions in the right way. I think it's beyond repair. One should start from scratch.

I'll attempt to make a new one. I'll see what the program needs to export and how, by looking at the code, then try to make my own program.


peace,
Supah

Dude, scrap the original; use MapMaker Plus B-)

quote:Originally posted by Super N00b... Now I know what you're saying about the polygons. Everything is based on triangles, not polygons. So like I said, make snapping better.... Also make it an option for vertices to snap with other vertices, the grid, or not at all....
Go to the Developers' Corner forum sub-body and download Anna's & Michal's Soldat PolyWorks (it's only at an experimental version right now; don't save your maps when using it).

quote:... When a polygon is made with no width (by accident), there's no way to select it again. A couple of maps I made were ruined. I accidetally made a thin triangle, that showed in the compiled map, but couldn't be selected in the editor. Possible an option should be available to select a certain number polygon....
There is an editor that can select polygons by # (don't know the name; I've only heard of it). And that's why you click Undo as soon as you make such a critical mistake ;-)

quote:... The lines that show that a triangle is selected are horrible. They're not solid or crisp. You can't really see where an edge ends....
Just flip through wireframe mode & normal mode, and if you're trying to connect two polygons, highlight them (multi-select) to see if there is any gap.

quote:... When you zoom in really far, clicking becomes askewed significantly....
What do you mean? Just zoom in and click, then.

quote:... Rotation should be judged by the dragging of a click....
Why? What's wrong with the current method?

quote:... Also, it's stupid to have to delete something and remake it all over again cause you chose the wrong color....
I agree, but I've gotten used to it :-P

quote:... undo should undo polygon movement....
Dude, use MapMaker Plus. It does that.

quote:... Make it possible to set the depth (z axis position) of triangles. Also make it possible to set the depths of scenery items; though I don't think this would require changing of the actual engine, just the map maker....
What would depth do? Are you trying to turn it into a 3D game? There's already transparency, if that's what you're thinking.

Dude, scrap the original; use MapMaker Plus B-)

quote:Originally posted by Super N00b... Now I know what you're saying about the polygons. Everything is based on triangles, not polygons. So like I said, make snapping better.... Also make it an option for vertices to snap with other vertices, the grid, or not at all....
Go to the Developers' Corner forum sub-body and download Anna's & Michal's Soldat PolyWorks (it's only at an experimental version right now; don't save your maps when using it).

quote:... When a polygon is made with no width (by accident), there's no way to select it again. A couple of maps I made were ruined. I accidetally made a thin triangle, that showed in the compiled map, but couldn't be selected in the editor. Possible an option should be available to select a certain number polygon....
There is an editor that can select polygons by # (don't know the name; I've only heard of it). And that's why you click Undo as soon as you make such a critical mistake ;-)

quote:... The lines that show that a triangle is selected are horrible. They're not solid or crisp. You can't really see where an edge ends....
Just flip through wireframe mode & normal mode, and if you're trying to connect two polygons, highlight them (multi-select) to see if there is any gap.

quote:... When you zoom in really far, clicking becomes askewed significantly....
What do you mean? Just zoom in and click, then.

quote:... Rotation should be judged by the dragging of a click....
Why? What's wrong with the current method?

quote:... Also, it's stupid to have to delete something and remake it all over again cause you chose the wrong color....
I agree, but I've gotten used to it :-P

quote:... undo should undo polygon movement....
Dude, use MapMaker Plus. It does that.

quote:... Make it possible to set the depth (z axis position) of triangles. Also make it possible to set the depths of scenery items; though I don't think this would require changing of the actual engine, just the map maker....
What would depth do? Are you trying to turn it into a 3D game? There's already transparency, if that's what you're thinking.[/beige]