Recently I've found myself becoming detached from the main forums, and found that I lurk the Bash Pit, Lounge, places where your post count doesn't increase. And when you do this as I do, you see topics like this: [URL]

This topic recieved much attention and response from the Bash Pit community at large. Now it's not that topic in broad I'm here to talk about, it's something said in the above thread.

Posted by Popseed(speaking to a Mr.White_Ninja): "i have no doubt you're the kind of person who plays 3 hours every day trying to get better at the game (you wont, you either got it or you dont)."

Now, allow me to explain...

I consider, as many to I'm sure, Soldat to be a game of parity, meaning that by and large anyone can be the best player in the universe at any time if they try hard enough. It's COMPLETELY and utterly up to everyone to decide exactly how good you want to be at this silly game. And despite Popseed's opinion, this is the reality of Soldat, and it's not just me who knows it, history even laughs at Popseed's view. I mean, has anyone ever heard the quote, "Practice makes perfect!"? Becuase I'm positive it wasn't limited to everything except Soldat. Now I'm going to stop riding Popseed's case about this, his was just the most recent example I could find. But back on topic, parity is what makes Soldat so attractive to those who first discover it, and what makes it (in large part) so addictive to those who still play it after a year or two. The bottom line is that anyone can win any soldat game; league; tourney; or pie eating contest if they indeed have the desire to do so, and I'm sick of hearing all these "accomplished" players saying that if you suck you suck and there's no hope for you. Because that's exactly the attitude that's going to send this community into damnation one day, what decent, experienced players need to do is to embrace new players like White_Ninja and let them know that with time, they can improve SUBSTANTIALLY. Because if you're a noob having trouble grasping the basics of Soldat, or you take losing too damn seriously, and then a large part of the community is feeding you this bull[IMAGE] about never getting better, you would have no reason to continue playing. And I don't believe it to be anybody's job to kill off the community one-by-one. Don't get me wrong here, the majority of the community is great, and they realize it's worth the effort to reach out to newer players, to help them learn and to provide them with some guidance. Because that's what makes Michal's work worth it in part. Soldat is a great game, and has a great community, we just need to bear in mind that it's partly our responsibility to enlarge the general knowledge of Soldat, and to help the community grow in any way we can.

In closing, I just want to make it perfectly clear that this is NOT a direct shot at Popseed and really doesn't have much to do with him at all. He just provided me with the meat of my argument. So I'd like to apologize to any person(s) that I may have offended during the course of my rant.

~The End

I completely agree.

Well, I'm not necessarily a noob. My K:D ratio on average is 3:1 or better. But I do agree with what you're trying to say. I think the problem lies more in general hostility, not in welcoming new players.

/clap...clap..clap.clap.clap.clap

It makes a ton of sense. unlike other games, soldat skill isn't determined by how long you have been playing ; its determined by skill. I think thats what makes it so appealing to others. And we all are sick of those who bash. Honestly, where did appreciation for "trying" go?

Ya, I had a friend start playing, and on the first game he played EVER, he did quite well. I think that comes from the other games he's played, but still. Most people start out with no skill in the game, because they have never played it before. That's the usual case anyway..

Skill=Reactions to situations, eye and hand coordination and dont forget your finger muscels.
The 2 first things will born with you and you cant change it much. Though you can train your muscels to react faster.

Soldat is a pretty easy game to learn. I got used to it in 2 days of first playing. Sure, some people have been around for a longer time, but it doesn't make them superior in anyway. I myself am open to noobs, and i try to help them as much as possible. I even set up a "Noob's Training Server" from time to time!
I hope more Soldat players become more noob friendly.

If you've seen the demos, you will agree that much more is wrong with some people's attitudes towards the game.

I believe you can call it the "I don't care about the game, I want to win because I just can't stand losing" attitude.

I play....2 times a week, maybe. I dont loose a lot, if at all. Killwise anyway.

Yea, I kinda agree and kinda don't.

You see, there are many factors here.

First off, you have experience. The more you play, the better you will become, to an extent. This is of course limited.

Limited to what?

The constraints that are your body, your physical form.

You have limitations of the brain, such as reaction time.

You have limitations of the body, such as actual coordination and movement speed of the muscles in your arms and hands.

These limitation will "cap" your playing ability at some level, though many of us will not reach this level.

So, practice does not make perfect. Practice simply makes us as good as we can be.

Harrr the veterans are gods... they are to be worshiped they are perfect XD
Bring me more sacrificial noobs i say!!!
White ninja is the leet based on his avatar and signature...

transit, learn how to use paragraphs. ;)

also, perfect practice makes perfect.

well there are things which may be impossible to learn in soldat, those which come with instinct. Like in clanwars, people can be extremely good but make bad decisions: not covering the flag, changing routes, etc, which take a whole lot of instinct, which you can't really change.

let's not forget about anticipation which is extremely useful in clanwars

But come on, weren't most of us the type of players who walked accross the map and wondered why we couldn't get to high places?

Edot: That means I agree with Transit to a high extent.

i have to say i agree also .

Mmh, I would agree too, but i think u lose ur skill very fast. Everytime i didnt play for a week i needed 1 or 2 days to get my former skill back. ;S

in two days you can understand a game and be good at it... but... getting better at it all the time is determended by YOU skills, like your reaction to someone shoting... or your moving the mouse around and aiming with your eyes and prediction...

i mean once you know the weapons and maps... the only improvment that will help you is outside skills...

like a bike when you learn how to ride it only getting stronger(mustles) will make you go faster

quote:Originally posted by DeadMakerMmh, I would agree too, but i think u lose ur skill very fast. Everytime i didnt play for a week i needed 1 or 2 days to get my former skill back. ;S


thats because the game changes and so do the guns. Its easy to remember old versions, i can go back to 105 and rock it cos I remember it. but if you come back froma break and theres a new version, the guns arc is different etc makes you a nub again and you have to relearn it. Sucks.

I agree.
One mistake alot of people make on these forums is that just because a person is new here, they're new to the game. This is far from true in many cases. Not long ago I was in a server with White Ninja, and he was just as good, and in fact a little better than me. I get beaten in servers all the time by people who are never in the forums, but if they joined, I'm sure they'd be treated like n00bs, you know "I see you're new here, use the search function" "We think barret is lame" "Maybe you should join a clan" etc...
STOP ASSUMING THINGS. F'chrissake...

sure everyone can get good at it. But in my opinion it takes awhile before that happens though. Getting a good aim can be learned quite quickly I think. But learning how to read the game takes more time.
When people learn to do more advanced stuff like:

* playing the game by using almost only the deathconsole and flagmessages
* learn how players react on different moves(aswell as how they move themself)
* knowing when to support your teammate or not (flagprotection, attacking, defending or similar) to get the best score out from it and make basics for future cap meanwhile
* know your teammates behaviour
* and whatever I might have forgotten...

AND THE MOST IMPORTANT OF THEM ALL (I think, however this is like a summary for my other "*" arguments)
* know where almost all the enemies and teammates are constantly (even without taunts)(deathconsole + good at reading tactics and behaviour)
etc..

I agree with Transit whole-heartedly, and that's all I can really say about that.

ahh good points cbble, may be impossible for such things to be simply learned

the more u play, the more u get used to aim and evade. but its useless if u dont got hand coordination and reflexes.

i hate braggers like Poop that says "i play to win, not for fun" i mean.. wtf is this? a game is supposed to be for fun, not a competition. and degrading others doesnt make any sense.

wut determines if u r a good player, is not ur aim and evasion. but tactics and friendship with others.

i like getting along with everyone, but my style is kamikaze.. go, kill and without hope of returning lol but im trying to survive more cuz im usually #1 in every game with top deaths.

Lol, i only go into "suicide missions" when Im bored..and want to have funny demos:)
But ya, games should be fun and you should try to make it fun for everyone...and by calling people noobs(even if they are) wont make them have fun:/

quote:Originally posted by MakroX
i hate braggers like Poop that says "i play to win, not for fun" i mean.. wtf is this? a game is supposed to be for fun, not a competition.

I guess you disagree with the concept of clans then?

Going off topic a little, but competition is fun. Thats why we have them.

The real problem is, people taking it too seriously. Pride in soldat and your skills is a sensitive thing.

quote:Originally posted by MakroX
i hate braggers like Poop that says "i play to win, not for fun" i mean.. wtf is this?


Are you stupid?, how is saying "I play to win" Bragging. Last time i checked bragging is saying im better then everyone and showing off, which i never do.

quote:Originally posted by MakroX
a game is supposed to be for fun, not a competition. and degrading others doesnt make any sense.


Ever played ctf? when your on a team, the objective of your team is to beat the other team.
Ever played Deathmatch? Your supposed to beat other people
Ever played Teammatch? Your team is supposed to beat the other teams.

You get my point... All these forms of soldat seem like compititions to me. I dont have fun unless i win... Fun is a side thing.
Do you ever see me degrading anybody in a server? usually its only when someone makes a stupid mistake like standing in one place when the flag is right in front of you (remember that makrox)


quote:Originally posted by MakroX
wut determines if u r a good player, is not ur aim and evasion. but tactics and friendship with others.


LOL!!!!
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Anyways since stupid little makrox brought me into this thread, ill actually post something about the topic...

I somewhat agree with transit that the old players should not be harsh with the newer people. but ofcourse not everyone is gonna become elite with just practice...