FliesLikeABrick
March 12, 2005, 3:28 am
This is the official petition to get him unbanned, and obviously his name taken out of the word filter. Please see posts in these two threads:
http://archive.forums.soldat.pl/topic.php?topic_id=21616
edit: gotta find the right second link that i wanted here
[IMAGE] has done a lot to help the community recently, releasing programs, passing on word of bugs with hopes of getting them fixed, and overall being participatory (on IRC and via MSN with soldat players).
The biggest reason that I have to get him unbanned is the pending release of quite possibly his biggest contribution tothe community: his nickname registration service. I feel that this alone could revolutionize the community, and outweighs any damage that he may have done in the past. Furthermore, he could be effective in publicly helping awareness of hacking, bugs, and other technical issues of soldat. those who build and those who [once] destroy something like a program are those who understand it best, and can help the most.
Anyway, onto the dirty details of his NickAuth service:
It runs on a central server, hosted on a U13 computer (needs windows). Any server owner wishing to participate simply gives some information to
[IMAGE] or myself, and within minutes their server can be connected to the service. Here's how it works:
-Any user wishing to register his name just fills out one registration (hopefully he will be unbanned to officially release the URL and explain it all, I want to wait until he is ready). This one registration will protect their nickname on any servers connected to the service...
-The protection is via IP. If someone tries joining from an ip that doesnt match the one in the user database, they get a [Server Message] saying that authentication failed or something equivalent, and they are then kicked.
-You may wonder, "What about people with dynamic IPs?" He has that covered: he also coded an application that runs on the client computer, and updates their IP in the database every XXX seconds, as the user wants to have it, it can be adjusted easily in the dyn update file. (NR-DynIP is the name of the update app.) the update client has simple settings for how often to update, your username in the database, and the current name that you use in game and want to keep protected. Any of these settings can be changed and take effect immediately. With one account in the user database, you can easily change the name that you want to protect as you change clans etc etc.
Thats all there is to it! I really think this is an amazing piece of programming, and it is what many many people have asked for in the past, as you all realize that Soldat has no built in authentication, and people can be easily impersonated (and all too often are).
I strongly feel that
[IMAGE] can be trusted, and many others have come to agree. After a contribution of this magnitude to the Soldat community, I think that his unban and this petition should be considered.
I think that he should be unbanned so that he may write the official release thread for this brilliant work, as well as provide support for it, and other soldat related issues.
I understand how much offense some of you may take because of the fact that he was the developer of hacks and trainers, as I was a great anti-hacking advocate myself. I still despise hackers, but I respect those who can turn around their motivation and provide help to those they once harmed, I have seen it happen a couple times in the past.
Please show your support, or voice any valid arguments you may have for or against his unban.
Milkman Dan
March 12, 2005, 3:31 am
I didnt read all that but 3nesce is cool
i decree he must be unbanned
JiggaBlue
March 12, 2005, 3:50 am
Woah, that name protection would be sweet.
[IMAGE] should be unbanned for sure. If flies trusts him, i do too.
Deleted User
March 12, 2005, 3:55 am
I say unban him, he has been playing in the TPG soldat servers for the past 2 months and hasnt caused much havoc at all, another one of his unreleased programs is called SSBot (soldat server bot) which allows you to view activity in the server from IRC, and can listen for ingame commands, such as !admin which will request an admin, and the bot will then send a message to the channel it is stating who requested the admin and a quick link to it.. Like this
quote:<^CTF1^> (1:30:18 PM) ATTENTION: An admin has been requested by TestPlayer.
<^CTF1^> SERVER: soldat://raven1.tpg.com.au:23073
He said he will be releasing this soon, I think this program would also revolutionize the whole soldat scene.
UNBAN! UNBAN! UNBAN! UNBAN! UNBAN! UNBAN! UNBAN!
Vijchtidoodah
March 12, 2005, 3:56 am
I will accept it, as long as someone checks the program and that file that runs on the client server for any kind of malicious code -- I trust your word, Flies, but I'd still like to make sure that he isn't pulling a fast one on us.
Pulp
March 12, 2005, 3:59 am
Guess it's our duty to give him the advantage of doubt and forgive him for what he did. There's no certainty he will or won't hack ever again,so it's on us to trust him. And it's on him to show thankfulness to our forgiveness, to don't harm our trust in him.
FliesLikeABrick
March 12, 2005, 4:02 am
Vijch I've already seen the packets going in and out of my server, they are all clean. I have tested the apps myself, just because a couple other people wanted to hear some proof that it is all clean. It is.
n00bface
March 12, 2005, 4:05 am
I don't care what he's doing, I think he should remain banned for everything he's done in the past. Seems like a pretty easy way to get out of a ban - start hacking, then stop and get a lot of respect from everyone in the community. Freaking awesome.
Deleted User
March 12, 2005, 4:09 am
Ask yourself this, and the post your opinion: how many months ago was it that he released his last trainer?
3 months and 2 weeks ago.
FliesLikeABrick
March 12, 2005, 4:12 am
[IMAGE] says:
hmm last one was 2 weeks before christmas
Dathker
March 12, 2005, 4:17 am
hackers are cool, and they are apart of teh community too. why doesn't everyone just deal with it?
Michal
March 12, 2005, 4:18 am
I also think he should remain banned.
He committed crimes against Soldat, and for that he should not be forgiven.
His current contributions do not seem particularely useful to me.
Vijchtidoodah
March 12, 2005, 4:35 am
quote:Originally posted by Michal
He committed crimes against Soldat, and for that he should not be forgiven.
lol
He has broken the sacred commandments instituteded by the lord of shareware and poisoned our brotherhood! There is only one punishment...
DEATH!
Michal (and those before him) brings up a good point. However, I think that instead of letting him be punished and that's it, he should be given a second chance only after he has truly proven himself rehabilitated.
N1nj@
March 12, 2005, 4:41 am
ya i dont find that name protection all that useful either. It is useful, but I don't think name stealing is a problem in Soldat or in other games as well. Everyone that are decent wants his/her own special alias ingame, with the exception of one or two morons, but other than that, it doesn't really help. Hope you understand what I am saying..its late at night..
and I also think he should stay banned from the forum, this program thingy is nothing compare to all his hackings and damages that has already done to the community IMO...so ya...
EndertheXenocide
March 12, 2005, 4:41 am
For my whole opinion on the subject: I say unban him. I can understand that one person who does such ridicule things should be banned for an extremely long time. Almost like someone who stole something valueable from a Museum or Jewerly Store (going into an Analogy). They caught doing it once, everyone hates him for doing it. Yet he may do it again, and then gets caught again (I understand I am keeping the whole prison time out of this). He does it again and may teach others how to get away with doing it. Yet he finally just gives up on doing these bad deeds and finds a way to help out all Security Issues that were a problem. Some will never trust him again probably. But others will get respect from this individual for doing a great act for all of his misbehaviors. Some day yes he may turn bad again. But more than likely not. If he has grown-up a little and matured. He probably has grown out of Hacking. So I say trust him only to an extent. But yes, Unban him.
Captain Ben
March 12, 2005, 4:49 am
okay-dokay, supported. unban him, but keep an eye on him...
Kazuki
March 12, 2005, 5:41 am
I really have no say on this topic. The only thing I can honestly state is that I trust Brick and I think that he's intelligent enough to see past any little 'plan' that
[IMAGE] might have.
Leo Da Lunerfox
March 12, 2005, 6:37 am
I havn't ever used his stuff, or even knew of his site before someone showed it to me (After it was closed) but I say give him another chance, the occasional hacker in every few servers isn't that bad, and with his willingness to close the site down on his own, I think he can be trusted. One thing though, if he DOES get unbanned, you guys make sure you don't make fun or blame him for anything, or he'd probably say "man F*** this" and go back to hacking...unbanning him would mean that we forgive him, so there would be no mention on it whatsoever if he does get unbanned.
Rambo_6
March 12, 2005, 6:49 am
since this is a smaller community (compared to those in CS, Warcraft, etc.), i think it is easier to trust one another, and get to know people better. I've been to #soldat.forums and seen 3n3sc3 posting there, he really seems like a nice guy now.
Plus, try to think of other games which countless trainers have been made for. There's wallhacks for CS, Fly hacks for Delta Force, and so on. And they've been made and remade by countless people! Meanwhile, here we are disputing a guy who made a couple hax for soldat. Whoop de do. Most of them barely work anyways, since the person who uses them usually gets flood\cheat kicked in the first 2 minutes because of his excessive use of the program.
My [dumb] cousin has been banned from many servers in the first minute of his arrival. Heck, our community is so good at noticing (and vote kicking) people who use trainers, it takes all the fun out of the cheating for the people who use them!
Plus, Brick is the manager of one of Soldat's top servers/sites. If he's wrong, i'll eat my hat.
Milkman Dan
March 12, 2005, 7:38 am
And this hat you speak of, is it a metaphorical hat or real hat...
that fuking sniper
March 12, 2005, 7:43 am
I have no say on the issue of his acceptance back into the community, nor do I trust the judgement of others, mostly because it won't directly affect me in any way either way :P
At any rate, about his name program - I still think it will do more harm to the community than good. I'm not for "copywriting" nicknames and whatnot.
Vijchtidoodah
March 12, 2005, 7:50 am
Hehe, I have dibs on "Soldier".
No, it'll definitely keep people from impersonating respected players (which several hackers have begun doing) and you'll always know that the exact person who you're talking to is the one and only player (unless you're on a server that doesn't have this program). I just feel sorry for everyone named Hitman.
FliesLikeABrick
March 12, 2005, 7:51 am
edit: vij beat me to the reply, but this is for TFS
ok, this should be my only sarcastic post in this thread..
come on.. "copyrighting" (sp. for you)??
styx, lets make the forums all anonymous, no registrations please... this is ALL about artistic protection of our works, especially our nicknames! Please disallow all protection, because names are everything to do with artistic protection, which is why copyright was the perfect thing to call it!
</sarcasm>
TFS, take a step back, dont care about what affects you nor what doesnt. Just answer the question, or at least support the answers you threw out there. How does it do harm? How in the world is this copyrighting? Do you even know what copyrighting pertains to, and how it is put into affect?
Google It
that fuking sniper
March 12, 2005, 8:07 am
It does harm because my perception of "harm" in this case, as well as many other things, might be different from yours. I think that impersonators are easily differenciated from the original victims. Obviously, impostors would use other people's names to ultimately defame them. If anyone is to care enough about any case of impersonation, they should know the person being impersonated and notice the obvious difference between the behavior of the victim and the impostor. Aside from this, I think online reputation is completely pointless and neglicable unless it has some direct effect on one's outside life.
That said, the fact that people who are not impostors that might try a name that's already been registered (or copyrighted, thanks for the spell check) and reserved would be turned off is more damaging than good simply because it stops the person from having his complete way with the game.
How in the world is this copyrighting? It has the same effect, and it is what I meant by it when I put that word in quotation marks to signify a comparison.
And finally: Yes, I do know what copyrighting pertains to and how it is put into effect:
cop·y·right Audio pronunciation of "copyright" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kp-rt)
n. Abbr. c. or cop.
The legal right granted to an author, composer, playwright, publisher, or distributor to exclusive publication, production, sale, or distribution of a literary, musical, dramatic, or artistic work.
As I said, it has a similar effect of restricting those who haven't reserved the right to play under a certain 'copyrighted' (or registered, for the sake of correct terminology) alias from playing under it to restricting rights of people to publish, produce, sell, or distribute of literary, musical, dramatic, or artistic work without due permission. :)
FliesLikeABrick
March 12, 2005, 8:37 am
I'm still not 100% sure where you're going with that all, but thanks for explaining it rather than turning this into a flamefest
Vijchtidoodah
March 12, 2005, 8:48 am
quote:Originally posted by that fuking sniperI think that impersonators are easily differenciated from the original victims. O...If anyone is to care enough about any case of impersonation, they should know the person being impersonated and notice the obvious difference between the behavior of the victim and the impostor. Aside from this, I think online reputation is completely pointless and neglicable unless it has some direct effect on one's outside life.
Impersonators cannor be distinguishable from the real person if a player has never met the real person before. This normally wouldn't be a problem in a very popular game, but in soldat, that person is likely to have a strong first impression and will most likely meet up with them again in another server.
Now you say that this isn't a big deal because you think that an online reputation is completely pointless. However, other people aren't so pessimistic. The internet is a little alcove for many people to escape the pressures of living and if you make that experience miserable, then you'll end up finding situations in which, like Paramud's friend, people may be emotionally disturbed.
I know that sounds cheesy, but it's true for a lot of people.
frogboy
March 12, 2005, 9:04 am
Well, as Styx
said:
quote:Show me you want to _really_ help by taking all your trainer downloads offline and put up a public apollogy to all Soldat players out there for the trouble you have caused to server ops, clan players and anyone who has tried to enjoy a 'fair' game of Soldat online.
Until then /ban
He has already taken all his trainers offline, and if Brick trusts him, then I'm sure we can all trust him.
Captain Ben
March 12, 2005, 9:23 am
wellll- wait! what kind of hacks did he make? i understand the programs he can make that are good, but what did he do that was so bad?
Vijchtidoodah
March 12, 2005, 9:28 am
Captain Ben, it doesn't really matter what he did, but the fact that he did it.
Frogboy, I'd like to see that public apology, and it better be long and in-depth.
that fuking sniper
March 12, 2005, 9:37 am
Vijchtidoodah: I'm not so pessimistic, really. In fact, I know some people online that I wish I knew in real life. That still doesn't change my perspective of reputation, because I don't think any online friends who consider themselves friends would judge you by a change of reputation. I used to actually care about my image and would be very disturbed if someone impersonated me in an attempt to slander my name. It stands that I can still identify with the feeling that others have about their respective reputations and their being undermined. It's not like I'm all that different. Lately, however, I chose my friends (both online and in real life, as a sort of priciple) carefully out of a select group of people whom I've grown to know for quite some time now, and those won't really care about my reputation any more than I would. Therefore it also stands that my view of the tradeoff in this little name registration program is different than the majority's.
JiggaBlue
March 12, 2005, 9:52 am
I feel he should be unbanned, but not have to give an apology for his trainers. He made nothing that edited soldat or that was meant for public play. He should give an apology for hosting hacks/anims that edit soldat. Also, the nick reg isn't for all servers anyway, just a select few that join in on it.
Deleted User
March 12, 2005, 10:59 am
Being forced to give an apology is unsincere, therefore making the apology pointless and invalid.
grand_diablo
March 12, 2005, 1:07 pm
Humh, we dont have that much of problems with name stealers... yet. But dont forget, Soldat is growing (its currently also being shown on German television), and therefore such a thing might prove useful in the future even if we dont need it so much at the moment.
So, I guess we should give him a chance.
Some suggestions on the tool:
- Don't do it via IP. Do it via a password thing (at least alternatively). So instead of running that IP updater application, the user should have the possibility to log in this system via his browser, and once he has done so, he should be able to play on the protected servers (so the IP is taken from the login via browser instead of being updated by a permanently running app.)
I like the overall idea of this and might give it a try on my server, but I - as someone with a dynmaic IP - wouldnt like to have such an IP updater running on my comp.
Captain Ben
March 12, 2005, 1:23 pm
quote:Originally posted by VijchtidoodahCaptain Ben, it doesn't really matter what he did, but the fact that he did it.
wtf? i know he did something, but what was it?
trainers, hacks, ...?
Pulp
March 12, 2005, 4:01 pm
He was more an all-rounder, Captain Ben. He programmed hacks/cheats, trainer, and distributed those on his website/server. He also made a program to crash soldatservers on purpose, using this one even turned out his hobby for a while.
Anyway, i said i'm able to forgive him on the conditions brick posted in his euh.. posts.
FliesLikeABrick
March 12, 2005, 5:22 pm
im not sure that crashing servers required a program, and i know that n00bface crashed some servers in his day too.
FliesLikeABrick
March 12, 2005, 5:42 pm
n00bface=jackass
since the bug is fixed now, might as well tell you how it worked:
ready? this is really complex... you just telnet to the server and it crashed
mar77a
March 12, 2005, 8:46 pm
Emm, vostok or cornernote said that that way of crashing the server still works...
LazehBoi
March 12, 2005, 8:49 pm
quote:Originally posted by Rambo_6 since this is a smaller community (compared to those in CS, Warcraft, etc.), i think it is easier to trust one another, and get to know people better. I've been to #soldat.forums and seen 3n3sc3 posting there, he really seems like a nice guy now.
You can post on IRC? Odd.
I don't see why not, but I recall Sticks saying differently a while ago.
It's up to him, basically...
FliesLikeABrick
March 12, 2005, 9:04 pm
mar77a they were saying that you could still get admin powers without a password, but they were wrong. It just says "admin connected" before disconnecting them with a bad password. There is no more server crash or admin bug
Deleted User
March 13, 2005, 12:22 am
Woopdydoo, he made some hacks. Nothing wrong with hackers. I sign this petition, unban him and let's see whether or not "THE COMMUNITY WITH CRUMBLE".
Surfpup
March 13, 2005, 12:56 am
i agree.. everyone deserves a second chance! Besides, i like to see something new in soldat every now and then. unban him.
enjoyincubus
March 13, 2005, 2:44 am
Especially since Ardaen was treated quite well after his escapades. :)
117
March 13, 2005, 7:19 am
I dont think that's flies. LOL just kidding Anyway we'll see, but i probabaly wont use it. Unabnning him would be ok, but make sure he doesnt post bad stuff up
reckon
March 13, 2005, 8:35 am
Haha, I love threads that have "Official" in the title.
Has Michal endorsed this thread with his officiality?
SPARTAN_III
March 13, 2005, 11:34 am
i think he should be given probation, let the community decide the period. if in that time he creates no trainers, let him be welcomed again. should he create a trainer, let him remain banned indefinitely. if after his probationary period he creates a trainer, let he be banned again indefinitely.
and hang, draw and quarter him for good measure <-- j/k
Denacke
March 13, 2005, 11:39 am
quote:Originally posted by SPARTAN_IIIi think he should be given probation, let the community decide the period. if in that time he creates no trainers, let him be welcomed again. should he create a trainer, let him remain banned indefinitely. if after his probationary period he creates a trainer, let he be banned again indefinitely.
and hang, draw and quarter him for good measure <-- j/k
huh what's the point in that?
Poogle
March 13, 2005, 8:06 pm
Lemme say something?
3n3sc3, under the name of "mystikal", joined the RAW clan when it was still together. At the time, we were of course having a lot of trouble with people votekicking people, such as all the members of a team, or clan members. So 3n (and this is partly what got him into the clan) offered to make a program that would let us know who started a votekick. Tristan, the clan leader, thought this was great, until he found some lines of suspicious code in the program that didn't appear to have anything to do with votekicking. He discontinued use of the program, and eventually kicked 3n3sc3 out of the clan.
RAW has since then disbanded. A few days ago, playing in another CTF server, I saw 3n3sc3 and commented "Didn't you get kicked out of RAW for hacking?" or something like that. And he said, I quote: "no, I don't hack. I only make hacks."
So this name registering service sounds like a great idea. But I'm still pretty wary of anything 3n3sc3 offers to do, reformed or not. If someone's looked through the code for it, and it gets a regular (but hopefully irregular) inspection from time to time, I'm fine.
Hell, the guy's probably tickled pink that he's causing such a big argument right now.
Vostok 4
March 13, 2005, 8:21 pm
I say leave the ban. If he truly feels he can help the community he will release his stuff either way, and if he doesn't release it because he stays banned, well that says something about him doesn't it? That guy has created way more havoc, and just because he stopped distributing his trainers doesn't mean a 10yr old kid can find em in under 30 seconds.
Maybe he should have thought about wtf he was doing writing trainers for soldat in the first place, and the reprecussions it provides.
FliesLikeABrick
March 13, 2005, 9:04 pm
Poogle, I would appreciate it if you could find out more about this "suspicious code," because I highly doubt it was malicious... And I don't see how someone using the program can see the code in it, unless 3n3sc3 gave him the source code for some reason. Decompilers can only break the program down into machine code, and I'd like to see this claim substantiated with something more than just an accusation.
DeafBox
March 13, 2005, 9:47 pm
I agree with Vostock 4. Let him release his stuff, flies could do it for him and the forum ban could remian. The program is still out for everyone to use and the forum still remains hacker free (Y)
Zero Wiggles Murasame
March 13, 2005, 10:44 pm
I say unban. but we should be cautious though.
You Got KIlled
March 13, 2005, 11:44 pm
lol Zero your avatar amuses me. But anyway, let the guy be unbanned, or at least take his name out of the word filter, that is major humiliation. This new program sounds really cool, but it would great if we had someone that knew the ins and outs of soldat like the back of his hand. I myself have noticed many a hack that he didn't create, but very well could have, so doesn't that mean he could stop them, or at least detect them. The most annoying thing is seeing a superman hacker running across the screen, and not being able to votekick him. Also this new program seems good, someone could very well take your name before you do. Although the community is really close together, so it would definitely be easy to fix that. It would be really nice if we could actually stop the other hackers all together with nsc's help. I say UNBAN!
JiggaBlue
March 14, 2005, 12:36 am
quote:Originally posted by Vostok 4I say leave the ban. If he truly feels he can help the community he will release his stuff either way, and if he doesn't release it because he stays banned, well that says something about him doesn't it? That guy has created way more havoc, and just because he stopped distributing his trainers doesn't mean a 10yr old kid can find em in under 30 seconds.
Maybe he should have thought about wtf he was doing writing trainers for soldat in the first place, and the reprecussions it provides.
Think about what you said bro, would you help make a game better that your banned from? I think not. If we want his help in making the progs already talked about and he could even help greatly in anti-hack programs. I'm sure he won't want to release stuff he made and stay banned.
lastpatriot
March 14, 2005, 12:47 am
Look, the guy needs a second chance, so unban 3n3sc3, but watch him. Does it again, on a temporary ban. 3rd, Total ban.
Adin
March 14, 2005, 1:06 am
I played with him yesterday on one of the inet servers while the lobby was still down, (and it still is down today :|)
He seems pretty friendly if you ask me, give him a second chance I say.
BManx2000
March 14, 2005, 1:07 am
I like your system, but here's an improvement. Unban him, but watch him. If he does it again, ban him totally again for all eternity.
FliesLikeABrick
March 14, 2005, 1:33 am
i think people would watch him closely and ban him for anything wrong even if you guys didnt suggest it :P
Elephant_Hunter
March 14, 2005, 1:50 am
I hacked into a site and was tracked down by a private investigator as a sophomore in in highschool. I now realize it was wrong, but it is just a phase some of us go through. Lucky for me that my parents forgive my past, and they did not ban me from computers. They encourage doing good for people. You guys have openMapper (yes, i'm working on it ;D) and SMC to thank for that.
I did chat with him the other day and I swear it was not the same person I'd talked to 3 months earlier. 3n3sc3 is not so different from myself. Give it some thought.
N1nj@
March 14, 2005, 1:50 am
quote:Originally posted by FliesLikeABricki think people would watch him closely and ban him for anything wrong even if you guys didnt suggest it :P
well, that's obvious and that's what he gets for making hacks in the first place. He deserved this kind of treatment.
FliesLikeABrick
March 14, 2005, 2:49 am
The quote below supports what i said earlier about what poogle said. The guy that had the app to disable the vote kicks didnt even have the source to look at, so there is no way whether he knew it did something other than what it was supposed to (which it didnt anyway). Don't make accusations you can't back up, it is unfair to others
[IMAGE] [Death gives us sleep, eternal youth, and immortality] says:
oh my god, that poogle dude is a
[IMAGE]ing liar
[IMAGE] [Death gives us sleep, eternal youth, and immortality] says:
the prog I made for them only disabled vote kicks, and he never had the source code to view anything...
reckon
March 14, 2005, 3:42 am
Another thing about Poogle: He sure does have alot of keen insight for only having 3 post here on this forum.
JiggaBlue
March 14, 2005, 3:43 am
I'd trust
[IMAGE], he doesnt seem a guy that lies about what he does.
Aegis
March 14, 2005, 3:53 am
It is my personal opinion that dwelling on the past history of a person is narrowminded. I for one believe in change. He should be unbanned. If any of his new, and very helpful programs ever proved to be malicious in any way, they could be removed. It's not like he's FORCING server admins to use his software, and they do provide a useful service to the community. Unless any one of you can prove, without doubt that he has any bad intentions you have no reason NOT to let him contribute to the community. I also support this because I respect Brick. He would not ask for this without reason.
Cookie`
March 14, 2005, 5:15 am
Styx you can't unban him :\ Theres other people on here that used speedhack once and got perma banned and they get no unban... why should the person who made multiple programs and used them get pardoned ?
No To Enecense or wahtever his name was
Elephant_Hunter
March 14, 2005, 5:21 am
Cookie, I don't believe anybody was "perma banned" from here for using speedhack. Styx is the admin of a forum, not a server.
m00`
March 14, 2005, 5:49 am
well people other than enesensnce that advertised his hacks were banned i think
n00bface
March 14, 2005, 5:57 am
quote:Originally posted by Elephant_HunterCookie, I don't believe anybody was "perma banned" from here for using speedhack. Styx is the admin of a forum, not a server.
styx used to be the admin of a server and people who cheated on his server were banned, and still are.
JiggaBlue
March 14, 2005, 6:12 am
Yeah, but they are not trying to help with useful programs.
n00bface
March 14, 2005, 6:21 am
But they are helpful by putting up servers, being an active part of non-soldatforum communities. I don't
[IMAGE] is trying to help either..he's just trying to find a way out of the mess he's made.
Deleted User
March 14, 2005, 6:32 am
man you guys get really serious about this stuff...hehe let me quote
"I still despise hackers, but I respect those who can turn around their motivation and provide help to those they once harmed" dunno how hacking a little game harms anyone hehe...i kind of like when people hack...kuz usually they suck...and i pwn them ^_^, its funny to watch em flying around the map...as for banning the guys name from forums, LOL that is so silly, whoever did that should read 1984....or even harry potter lol
Vostok 4
March 14, 2005, 6:46 am
quote:Originally posted by JiggaBluequote:Originally posted by Vostok 4I say leave the ban. If he truly feels he can help the community he will release his stuff either way, and if he doesn't release it because he stays banned, well that says something about him doesn't it? That guy has created way more havoc, and just because he stopped distributing his trainers doesn't mean a 10yr old kid can find em in under 30 seconds.
Maybe he should have thought about wtf he was doing writing trainers for soldat in the first place, and the reprecussions it provides.
Think about what you said bro, would you help make a game better that your banned from? I think not. If we want his help in making the progs already talked about and he could even help greatly in anti-hack programs. I'm sure he won't want to release stuff he made and stay banned.
Look at what I said in a different aspect. If he truly wants to show he means good will he will release this app REGARDLESS of his ban or not. If he DOESN'T, that means he just made the app to get back on the forums. I don't think its too much to ask regarding his past record, I mean cmon, it won't kill him to release something to gain a bit of trust.
Elephant_Hunter
March 14, 2005, 8:02 am
quote:Originally posted by Elephant_HunterCookie, I don't believe anybody was "perma banned" from here for using speedhack. Styx is the admin of a forum, not a server.
*ahem* If you had understood the simple context of my post, you may have noticed how I was pointing out the difference between banning on a forum and a server. It is impossible to cheat on a forum, whereas it's easy to cheat in Soldat. A number of things, such as posting hacks and posthunting, factor into forums that don't really matter in Soldat. The two are not suited for comparison at all.
Here's an example of what I might say to you to create the same misunderstanding, n00bface:
I've been banned multiple times on the laughingllammas server for NOT using cheats or wielding a sniper rifle when everybody else had one. This obviously spawned from n00bface telling his lackeys to do so. I believe he ought to be permanantly banned from the forums for supporting hacks.
Stupid, eh? I thought so.
quote:Originally posted by n00bface
styx used to be the admin of a server and people who cheated on his server were banned, and still are.
okay... and this means what? You've put up a fact, now you should comment on it.
JiggaBlue
March 14, 2005, 8:14 am
quote:Originally posted by Vostok 4quote:Originally posted by JiggaBluequote:Originally posted by Vostok 4I say leave the ban. If he truly feels he can help the community he will release his stuff either way, and if he doesn't release it because he stays banned, well that says something about him doesn't it? That guy has created way more havoc, and just because he stopped distributing his trainers doesn't mean a 10yr old kid can find em in under 30 seconds.
Maybe he should have thought about wtf he was doing writing trainers for soldat in the first place, and the reprecussions it provides.
Think about what you said bro, would you help make a game better that your banned from? I think not. If we want his help in making the progs already talked about and he could even help greatly in anti-hack programs. I'm sure he won't want to release stuff he made and stay banned.
Look at what I said in a different aspect. If he truly wants to show he means good will he will release this app REGARDLESS of his ban or not. If he DOESN'T, that means he just made the app to get back on the forums. I don't think its too much to ask regarding his past record, I mean cmon, it won't kill him to release something to gain a bit of trust.
That still sounds dumb to me. Thats like writing a forum script for a forum you are banned from, he does want to show goodness and help the community, but if he is still banned he would most likly rather go program for a different game that would respect him for what he wants to make now, not his past. Plus, its not like if we unban him he can do anything worse then what he has already done. If he trys something cute, a ban isn't far away. There is nothing bad that come from a unban, only good.
n00bface
March 14, 2005, 8:36 am
quote:
That still sounds dumb to me. Thats like writing a forum script for a forum you are banned from, he does want to show goodness and help the community, but if he is still banned he would most likly rather go program for a different game that would respect him for what he wants to make now, not his past. Plus, its not like if we unban him he can do anything worse then what he has already done. If he trys something cute, a ban isn't far away. There is nothing bad that come from a unban, only good.
I hardly think any of us would give a
[IMAGE] if he decided to go program for a different game. He just seems to want to stick around, so we'd rather have him do something productive, as opposed to something very destructive. His new tool has nothing to do with the forums, so I don't see how your analogy of a forum programmer working on a forum has anything to do with the situation. But I will make an analogy just as irrelevant: A forum programmer makes passworded forums to release to the public; passworded forums which he cannot access.
Deleted User
March 14, 2005, 3:39 pm
Hey there people, I don't think you should ban this guy, especially id important people trust him. But it sounds as if some of you quite hate the chap - Even though hacking and cheating is a nasty business, isn't it precisely this kind of behaviour that creates new programmers.. somone who hacks a program will spend hours over it - just as many programmers will have created a virus in their lifetime, and learned in the experience. Um. What I wanted to say was mainly: computing wouldn't be what it is without all these kind of people, without this inquisitive spirit, so just live with it.
I'm for unbanning the chap.
End of rant
Tom
(I'm relatively new to Soldat, does that make me a noob? I played Liero lots..)
Judge_Man
March 14, 2005, 5:22 pm
I thrust Flies 100% so he should be un-banned. I didn't even knew he made something wrong until topics about him started to appear. Ok, he made some hacks/trainer. Does 50% of players use hacks? No, not even 2%. I don't see anymore hackers these days anyway. He removed his download as someone said and start to help the community with FLAB. Unless those 2 made an alliance to hack soldat (low chance to happen? Duh), i don't think he should remain banned.
Off Topic: Gotta love your sig JiggaBlue! Rofl
Vostok 4
March 14, 2005, 5:55 pm
quote:respect him for what he wants to make now, not his past.
Well that would be a perfect world wouldn't it? I'm going to respect him fully because he releases some nick impersonating app which does NOT take much skill to write (all he is doing is monitoring log files then banning on a non-matching IP). I'm going to completely ignore the fact that he made the experience of this game that much worse when you have 5 people a day coming on and hacking it up. I'm going to completely forget that, because he wants to change. I liked the analogy someone made to real crime. Is it wise to forget someone's past? Just because they said they have changed? Do you honestly think someone who spent THAT much time over the game (as thomas pointed out) to code a hack, will completely forget about it? He won't even think of coding the same hack for future versions? He will let that time die? Because these apps he's offering have no relevance to hooking the game, they are just based on monitoring output. What if, he doesn't tell anyone, but decides to modify the trainer for the next version for himself. Then he shows a friend, who after a week or two gets it from him. Then the friend leaks it. Oh well, THEN we should ban him because he did something bad again, but in 5 months he will apologize and weasel his way back in here.
It's not a question of his intentions now even, because we can't decide that, its a question of his ethics. They are obviously skewed because a proper "hacker" finds a vulnerable piece of code (in which there must be a vulnerability in Michal's anti-cheat code since there IS a cheat) then they NOTIFY THE DEVELOPER. Normally if there is no response from the developer then the Proof of Concept is released, but AFTER the game is a CHANCE to fix itself. Seeing as he just wanted to probably brag to everyone and become the attention fiending whore he is by releasing the hack immediately to the public.
Wanna know the difference between a good hacker and a bad hacker? Tank found a vulnerability in the code that HE WILL NOT DISCLOSE. Moreover, he provided a FIX! Now I know this guy can't release a patch or something for Soldat, but has he made ANY effort?
What I'm sayin is, stop living in a dreamworld where people change the way they say they will. People lie more often then telling the truth. The only substantial support he has is the word of FliesLikeABrick, for some people thats enough (justifiably) but for me, it is not because I've seen 3's type around before.
Felix
March 14, 2005, 6:37 pm
Just say, don't unbanned him sry, hate hackers.
Icarius
March 14, 2005, 7:22 pm
Unban him, for the greater good, who's saying we can't ban him if he
[IMAGE]s up anyway?
n00bface
March 14, 2005, 8:05 pm
Oh, I didn't even notice Elephant's post. The fact was that the people who were banned from this forum for speedhacking were banned from this forum because anyone who speedhacked on DNAgames server was banned here. It doesn't matter what you mean, because that's the point the other person was trying to make.
So to say it again - Yes, people were "perma-banned" from HERE for using speedhack.
FliesLikeABrick
March 14, 2005, 8:19 pm
quote:Well that would be a perfect world wouldn't it? I'm going to respect him fully because he releases some nick impersonating app which does NOT take much skill to write (all he is doing is monitoring log files then banning on a non-matching IP).
It doesn't ban, it actively kicks them from the server until they join with an unregistered nickname, or a registered name from a valid IP.
Also, to reply to what you said earlier about
"if he really wanted to do good, he would release it anyway":
It is released in beta. the nickname registration server is up and running, and final testing is being done on its' actual performance in -game. I wasnt saying it wouldnt be released without his appearance here on the forums, but rather that I would prefer to have him come on here, make a thread about it, and help people set it up and everything, rather than have to have someone else do that and act as a middleman.
quote:I'm going to completely ignore the fact that he made the experience of this game that much worse when you have 5 people a day coming on and hacking it up. I'm going to completely forget that, because he wants to change. I liked the analogy someone made to real crime. Is it wise to forget someone's past? Just because they said they have changed? Do you honestly think someone who spent THAT much time over the game (as thomas pointed out) to code a hack, will completely forget about it? He won't even think of coding the same hack for future versions? He will let that time die? Because these apps he's offering have no relevance to hooking the game, they are just based on monitoring output. What if, he doesn't tell anyone, but decides to modify the trainer for the next version for himself. Then he shows a friend, who after a week or two gets it from him. Then the friend leaks it. Oh well, THEN we should ban him because he did something bad again, but in 5 months he will apologize and weasel his way back in here.
The last part of that in particular basically says that we are stupid and too trusting. When have we been wrong about something before? For the most part we respect styx's authority to ban who he wants, and we don't trust people back here. I'm not asking to change the forum policy on bans or anything, I feel that these circumstances provide for this particular ban to be reconsidered. This isn't some vicious cycle where banned people keep weasling their way back.
quote:It's not a question of his intentions now even, because we can't decide that, its a question of his ethics. They are obviously skewed because a proper "hacker" finds a vulnerable piece of code (in which there must be a vulnerability in Michal's anti-cheat code since there IS a cheat) then they NOTIFY THE DEVELOPER.
He would if he had a medium to talk to him on. the forums are far more convenient than via email. He has reported some bugs and holes through me to MM before, and I feel that he should be able to help him directly. Right now enesce is under the impression that MM wants nothing to do with him. I would like to point out that I recently PMmed styx and MM about this all.
And I just [a couple seconds ago] recieved a PM from styx saying that the ban has been lifted under a watchful eye.
thank you to all who have supported the review of this ban, as I hope this works out for the best.
Deleted User
March 14, 2005, 8:26 pm
I for one, am glad that he is back. However, I am ashamed at all of you who've argued over this and refused to allow enesce back to the forums.
Do not deny others what you demand for yourselves. If he turns back to the way he was, then ban him. I don't think there's any real harm in letting him visit the forums.
FliesLikeABrick
March 14, 2005, 8:40 pm
Ultimately, enesce's unban came from MM being open to him being allowed on the forums, this thread just showed the support (and otherwise discussion) regarding the topic.
Vostok 4
March 15, 2005, 4:17 am
Well he's back, we will see what happens but two things. FLABS:
quote:He would if he had a medium to talk to him on
O.o You realize this is 2005 and not 1994 when you had to sneak in to a BBS to leave a message right? Something that big can be said in the email imho: Listen if we take register 5 during your code execution you are not branching with your anti-cheat code properly, here is how to exploit it. I'm sure MM would read the email if it had a clever title such as "Vulnerability in Soldat Discovered, Source Code Included".
Lapis:
quote:Do not deny others what you demand for yourselves
Ain't that a U2 song? Crumbs from your table? :D Just curious if thats where you got it from hehe
Cookie`
March 15, 2005, 6:11 am
quote:Originally posted by n00bfaceOh, I didn't even notice Elephant's post. The fact was that the people who were banned from this forum for speedhacking were banned from this forum because anyone who speedhacked on DNAgames server was banned here. It doesn't matter what you mean, because that's the point the other person was trying to make.
So to say it again - Yes, people were "perma-banned" from HERE for using speedhack.
You sir are correcT! ^__^ Elephant is silly...
Enesce is not welcomed by me...
Deleted User
March 15, 2005, 6:15 am
Thank you everyone who supported getting me unbanned, especially FliesLikeABrick. I promise I wont dissappoint you all. The reason I shutdown my site was not so I could get back into the community, if you bothered to read my news I said it was because I felt my 'community' was going nowhere and that soldat been bashed enough. Infact, the shutdown poll closed on the exact same day this all started, 1 year of it is enough. Hopefully ill be releasing afew decent programs, and im always open for ideas no matter how hard they seem.
Cookie`
March 15, 2005, 6:33 am
idea: leave it would make me happy XD
Deleted User
March 15, 2005, 6:38 am
oh noes! the 9 post random doesnt like me. *plays violin*
TheRelinquished
March 15, 2005, 6:46 am
I find myself rather conflicted on this subject. As a member of the Soldat community I feel that hackers are a detriment to the game as a whole and that they should suffer the consequences of their actions. It's not some sacred writ that they're interrupting, it's just common courtesy. An ancient one at that. "Don't cheat" is about as common as it gets, after all.
However, those who have talent, even a great and terrible one, should be given a chance to use that talent for the benefit of everyone. And if he is willing to make recompense for any past offenses by indeed contributing to Soldat on a large scale, then perhaps he deserves a second chance.
And while I see some potential problems with the name authorization program, versus the "(#)" system now in place, with it presenting little great difference other than pleasing the handful of people who use the same nickname or who are just so uptight that they feel they need a way of keeping a name all to themselves, I also see great potential for the Call Admin program. That could be a great asset, and even an anti-hacking tool (ironically ^_^).
So, having now completely elucidated my thoughts, I believe I will elect to extend my vote of confidence towards him and say that he should be unbanned. After all, what's the real and permanent potential risk? If a man can be caught and banned once, he can be caught and banned again.
Vijchtidoodah
March 15, 2005, 7:03 am
Cookie, it's over. He's here to stay (unless he screws up, but I doubt that he will), so just let him be.
Enesce, you know better than to ridicule someone for their post count, and I would be especially careful now that you're on "probation".
Vostok 4
March 15, 2005, 8:04 am
LOL I love how his 2nd post back he already is an asshole. Sweet.
BManx2000
March 15, 2005, 2:33 pm
I was afraid of this. Everywhere he posts he will be ridiculed by at least half a dozen people who want him to leave.
Vostok 4
March 15, 2005, 3:07 pm
BMan, the guy flamed someone because of their post count, thats oh so amazing and eleet. Cmon, its his 2nd post back, you think he would have the brains to act a bit nicer? Ie maybe: "Listen I know you don't trust me but give me some time"
Not "Oh noes the 9 post count doesn't like me" :/ Oh well, I'm sure people are still givin him a chance.
Deleted User
March 15, 2005, 4:02 pm
quote:Originally posted by EnEsCeoh noes! the 9 post random doesnt like me. *plays violin*
Cookie has been here for years, he just got a new account :) 2000 post random, more like.
Not supporting his views or anything, just sayin'...
BManx2000
March 15, 2005, 8:10 pm
quote:Originally posted by Vostok 4BMan, the guy flamed someone because of their post count, thats oh so amazing and eleet. Cmon, its his 2nd post back, you think he would have the brains to act a bit nicer? Ie maybe: "Listen I know you don't trust me but give me some time"
Not "Oh noes the 9 post count doesn't like me" :/ Oh well, I'm sure people are still givin him a chance.
And "idea: leave it would make me happy XD" is such a polite and appropriate welcome?
FliesLikeABrick
March 15, 2005, 8:13 pm
that wasnt a flame because of his post count, it was because of the sarcastic comment </enddefense>
N1nj@
March 15, 2005, 9:59 pm
quote:Originally posted by FliesLikeABrickthat wasnt a flame because of his post count, it was because of the sarcastic comment </enddefense>
dude, let him talk for himself, stop protecting like you are like her mother or something...sorry..
Cookie`
March 15, 2005, 10:57 pm
He is off to a good start though :P he's only broken one rule as far as i can see
"Image removed. See forum Rules"
Elephant_Hunter
March 15, 2005, 11:26 pm
> Members not complying with the signature rules will be given a warning until the removal of their signature.
Did he get a warning? Must've been a short one
you have 2 seconds to comply! :P
JiggaBlue
March 15, 2005, 11:26 pm
I'm sure none of you ever broke a rule.
Krios
March 16, 2005, 1:25 am
Though he made hacks and kind...of...ruined Soldat We should forgive him he deserves to be unbanned. He could do some real good.
FliesLikeABrick
March 16, 2005, 1:49 am
Ninj@ that is what the </enddefense> was for. I only said that one thing, and i know that standing up for him is just going to make me look like more of an ass than I already am
Vijchtidoodah
March 16, 2005, 3:12 am
Flies, standing up for what you believe is right shouldn't make you look like an ass unless you don't take into account other people's views. As far as I can tell, you have been considering what other people say, so anybody who says that you're an ass is really just talking about themselves.
arC
March 16, 2005, 3:57 am
quote: Unban him, for the greater good, who's saying we can't ban him if he
[IMAGE]s up anyway?
Well lets see, the program he's making takes our IPs.. and records our names.. imagine what he could do with our IPs.. jesus i cant believe so many people are falling for this... Once a hacker always a hacker. I mean, when it comes down to it, hacking just makes the normal player's game miserable, and now we're going to trust our names and IPs to an ex-hacker? I know I wont.
FliesLikeABrick
March 16, 2005, 4:05 am
Anyone could get your IP any number of ways. Any time you establish a direct IM with someone(netstat), any time you send them a file on AIM/MSN (netstat), any websites you go to(access logs, maybe even with the aid of traffic scripts), any server you play on(logs your name and ip), any forums you visit track your ip and your name(for admin use), even email headers have your IP in them (with the exception of when you use hotmail/gmail through a website.
People really cant do jack with your IP unless you dont have a firewall, in which case you would be getting trojans and worms all the time through your internet connection without doing anything to invite them in.
Someone having your name and IP dont mean anything. If they wanted any information about you, be it your IP/name/personal information, there are so many ways they could get it that it isnt even worth trying to hide it. I gave up trying to hide personal information a while ago, just because it isnt worth hiding. Anyone who wants it can get it any way they want
N1nj@
March 16, 2005, 4:45 am
quote:Originally posted by FliesLikeABrickNinj@ that is what the </enddefense> was for. I only said that one thing, and i know that standing up for him is just going to make me look like more of an ass than I already am
it's not really that. It's cool how you brought this unban thing up to help that poor guy out, but you just kinda overdone, if u know what i mean...
Icarius
March 16, 2005, 4:48 am
OH THE DRAMA.
So is he unbanned or not
JiggaBlue
March 16, 2005, 5:07 am
Flies owns you all anyway, so give him a break.
FliesLikeABrick
March 16, 2005, 5:11 am
whatever, what i wanted was accomplished, see it how you want. Maybe overdone by one means or another, but it worked and I believe it was for a valid reason.
Deleted User
March 16, 2005, 5:51 am
wtf does peoples IP's have to do with this petition?
-LOCKED FFS!!
frogboy
March 16, 2005, 8:17 am
lol stop haxing mai ip nsc i noe ur gona hax agen and ur progrmes hav virises in dem
...If he was going to do something like that, why would FliesLikeABrick (and apparently, Styx too*) trust Enesce?
EDIT: n00bface says Michal supported his unbanning too.
Sneaky Bstard
March 16, 2005, 8:46 am
whether or not he does that again still doesnt mean he isnt a moron,my opinion just :/
Icarius
March 16, 2005, 12:57 pm
Actually, he's hacking a game you couldn't hack to save your life, he's not a moron, just juvenile. But who cares anyway, it's sorted.
DT
March 16, 2005, 3:22 pm
like rasberrys to a basket... except a few might be missing.....[/crazytalkwithhidenmeaning]
Hackers are fickle and they can always go back to hacking... you have to be careful with them.