I'll say this once and I'll say this now, but don't EVER inquire me about it.

The New Order of the Ages Will Begin Anew.

2012 is the rumoured date of the beginning of the Golden Age. The new papacy will celebrate the grand entrance to this new age.

Mark these words.

um... wat?

[code]Dec. 12 2012

12 12 12

12/2 12/2 12/2
= 6 6 6[/code]

The end is near.

http://exodus2006.com/2012.htm

Oh no.

well, there's been a lot of apocalypses we've "survived" through..more like, never happened.
But who knows!!!!

Another one of these? I thought the last one said we'd all be dead in the fifth day of the fifth month in 2005. Yeah...right.

why divide by 2? to force it to be 666?

it would make more sense if it was supposed to happen on June 6 2006

quote:why divide by 2? to force it to be 666?
Because of the 2 beasts in Revelation who will bring about the end.
(and it coincides with the date in 2012 ;) )

pfft, was this thought up by the mormons?
i mean honestly, first its in 2004, now its this.
whats wierd about it, back in the B.C. days, if you saw a five headed dog that spoke in several languages, people called you a saint.
nowadays, they call you crazy and send you to a padded white room with a nice sweater.

Umm im supposed to die in april 2063, so.... mittens

YAY!

Wait... Hell dosn't exist. Poop.

quote:Originally posted by Wikipedia
According to spiritualist writer Bob Frissell, John Major Jenkins and others, humankind will ascend into a higher state of collective consciousness.

On New Year's 1999 in PNG, there were riots every where. Apparently the world would end at midnight. Anyway, isn't there an asteroid on a collision course with Earth?
That's disturbing and all, but the tension is taken away, because it needs another 829.4 years to impact.

4 8 15 16 23 42

oh noes, in 2012 i'm 22 yay, i die when i'm 22 whoho!

1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89...

Ah, shucks.

quote:Originally posted by DeMonIc1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89...

Let me guess, you just read The Da Vinci Code?

... Each number is combined with the number behind it to result in the number in front of it.

Hahahhaha Melba thats my favourite TV show :)

doesnt the Maya calendar end in 2012?

yea it does

so we all dying or what?

No, we aren't 'dieing'. :P

WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIEEEE

I sure am not dying.

I'm planning to read the Da Vinci code, and yes, those numbers were in that. Aside that, that list was created by an italian mathematitian ( bare with me, I can't remember his name atm ), and it works like Kaz said.

Yeah, we're probably all dying, as we did in 1978 when pope Paul VI died, and then again in 2000 when our computers forgot how to count. And in those movies, where something extremely fatal kills us all. You know it's true. Or when the sun hits the Earth in a few years. Or that super volcano in Wyoming. Maybe even those aliens from Mars.

So many possibilities. We could waste our lives theorising how and when we'll die. Or worry about important things, like what kind of shoes we're going to wear to the store.

Whatevs, yo. Whatevs.

quote:Originally posted by enjoyincubusOr when the sun hits the Earth in a few years


Actually has quite a lot of scientific foundation, but it's going to happen in like 5 billion years.

Lapis: where are the rings? D:

quote:So many possibilities. We could waste our lives theorising how and when we'll die. Or worry about important things, like what kind of shoes we're going to wear to the store.
That reminds me, I need new shoes ;p

@Meandor: Never got them, but it didn't help that I entered a fake address. Besides that, I work around PC's all day, so.. magnetic rings?..

Keep discussing the topic, gentlemen. I want to see where this goes.

When you look at the geologic time scale and some of the catastrophic events that have been recorded (i.e. layers of ash that wrap around most of the world, areas of glass created by meteor impact, etc) and compare the relative timing to the disappearence/appearence of species, you get a mixed picture. Catastrophic events dropped in amongst times of relative calm and slow change can occur at any time...taking a glance out into the universe and at all the asteroids doesn't exactly offer any comfort. We're watching for such bodies, of course, but the fact that one could just as easily clip our planet and wipe things out gives testiment to the likelyhood of an eventual impact. It's happened before...check out the Gulf of Mexico, among other areas.

Geologist, I was hoping you could answer this:
When Mount Vesuvius erupted, how did the volcanic ash harden? Did it rain or what?
Anyway, it's amazing how hundreds of centuuries ago, people new so much about planets and everything.

quote:Originally posted by Lapis_Lazuli@Meandor: Never got them, but it didn't help that I entered a fake address. Besides that, I work around PC's all day, so.. magnetic rings?..

Keep discussing the topic, gentlemen. I want to see where this goes.

Someone got a pair of rip-off rings then?

Wow. They'll sell 'em on E-bay.

Was your fake address 123 ABC Street by any chance?


Anywho, my luck says I am hit by a car before then anyway.

The asteroid in collision course with earth is called will 2. the stardust is trying to intercept it so that scientists can eliminate it. The fibonacci sequence has nothing to do it. i use the fibonacci sequence every day. Although im not to sure, try this relative to phi. If someone is born unrelative to phi, that means something bad will happen. Phi is the golden ratio. Or if you gat an A+ in your algebra test. that's near impossible for normal people.

Say what? Are you telling me some Indians who can't talk english, and only walk around in their underwear predicted the world would end in 2012, or where they too lazy to go on and thought, meh, 12-12-2012 is a nice number, lets stop here and have a beer.

Ok, normally I don't buy apocalypse theries, but... This one's making me a tad nervous.

quote:Originally posted by Captain BenGeologist, I was hoping you could answer this:
When Mount Vesuvius erupted, how did the volcanic ash harden? Did it rain or what?


Consider this: When Mt. Vesuvius erupted in its most famous historical sense (which, unless memory fails me, was a pretty explosive eruption) the eruption itself was very fast. History says that people living in the area could see the lights of lava being pushed onto the surface in the night sky, so the fact that a volcano is venting gas/lava is only a hint of things to come...the actual eruption was very fast. On this note, you have materials that are under temperature and pressure conditions within the volcano and below the ground being rapidly extruded onto the earths surface. Long story short the sudden drops in temperature and pressure cause the ash (often suspended within gases and accompanying other superheated material) cause the minerals inside the ask to cool and crystalize.

The rock is called a "tuff" when it's mostly ash, and even though it is "ash" in a sense, the material is composed of superheated minerals. These minerals come into contact, they cool, compact (to a degree), and interlock. Of course, you can have crystals and pieces of rock in this ash mix as well, and oftentimes you do. The ash moves downslope from the volcano with the gasses and behaves more like a liquid because of its superheated state, but as temps drop the ash falls out and transfers its heat to whatever it lands on as well as the air. So when they cool they don't form an ordered crysal structure, instead creating something much like glass. In fact, if you compress these ass tuffs, they can become what you call "welded" tuffs, in which some glass actually forms due to the heat left over and the compression on the ash. So, in a sense, you can think of tiny bits of glass forming between pieces of ash throughout the rocks which helps to hold everything together. This isn't glass in the traditional sense, only that it's made of quartz (SiO2) that's rapidly moved from a heated state and cooled to surface temperatures.

Basically, your ash is mostly silica and rock material that is superheated while in the volcano, blown out onto the surface, and then rapidly cooled during the movement and fall down to the surface. As it builds up, weight builds up, and the temperature is great enough to make a cohesive rock and in some instances "weld" parts together to form a type of glass. The ash might not be strong enough to be a rock at first, but the heat present and weight added on top can compress the ash into a cohesive, sturdy rock. Google "pyroclastic flows" and you'll get a lot more info, because that is what this type of volcanic eruption produced.

Hope that explains it...if I rambled too much or said something you don't get, lemme know.

Edit: Rain could have helped to cool and crystalize the ash to an extent, and the ash itself was raining down around the whole area as well as being moved down hillslope with superheated gases. I'm not sure if it rained after the eruption, but it would have helped to in a sense "flash" cool the ash to create glass like structures.

To show you that I really could not care about Apocalypse theories, I will say this:

Why December 12th?! We're gonna miss Christmas! ;_;

quote:The new papacy will celebrate the grand entrance to this new age.
So this Ratzinger, Pope Benedict XVI, will be involved in this...

Yup, the Hitler Youth member got the papacy...god help us.

Hmm, has anyone looked up "apocalypse predictions" in Google yet? I got to one site that had 22 failed ones for the year of 1988. That's that many failed predictions in one year. Thank you. Swoosh.

Vijch, in Ratzingler's age, I doubt you could find 5 people who weren't Hitler Youth members.

4/21/88 is my birthday... 4 + 21 = 25
12/12/12

i'm be 25 at that time.... BUM BUM BUM!!!

... What?

quote:Originally posted by DeMonIcVijch, in Ratzingler's age, I doubt you could find 5 people who weren't Hitler Youth members.


Ah yes, I knew that argument would come up. But I can tell you that there were many people who weren't Hitler Youth members, about eleven million, and that's not counting the 45,500,000 casualties suffered, or the mass amounts of people who hated the Nazis, or the people who fled Nazi Germany, or even the few people who just didn't care but still weren't Nazis.

The fact is, there was a choice that young Ratzingler had to make, and he made the wrong one.

Well Nazi Germany was against homosexuality, maybe that's what convinced him.

Why is it the interesting topics conclude with Nazi references?

I swear, I could start a topic about window cleaners and someone would find a way to tie in the window cleaner of choice in Nazi Germany.

If he was voted as Pope then I think it does not really matter that he was in the Hitler youth...

What!?

He's the leader of the Catholic world. That's a HUGE deal. And he supported the group that slaughtered 45 million people who wanted nothing more than to continue living the way that they were, while he's supposed to serve as an infallible role-model for the rest of the world.

But of course, it's no big deal that young children are going to be raised to be a mirror of him; it's no big deal that he was convinced that jews, homosexuals, africans, gypsies, and many more people don't deserve to live; and it's no big deal that his personal hero growing up was someone who has the longest list of victims in human history.

Do you have any idea what you're saying?

Edit: All right, I settled down and wiped off the spittle that was slowly foaming around my mouth. I did some actual research because (judging from your post) it seemed that you wouldn't care enought to do it yourself.

Turns out that it was required by law to join the Hitler Youth and that he was never really enthusiastic about it (in fact, his mockery of Hitler as a youth forced his family to move several times). He was drafted three or four times and when he finally got back home, he was ordained (after being repatriated because of his desertion).

However, this doesn't mean I've let you off the hook for thinking that a Pope who was a former supporter of the Nazi party wasn't that big of a deal - even if it turned out that it wasn't true.

That's taking it a bit to the extreme... The hitler youth was pretty much like the boy scouts + Nazi propaganda. It does not mean that he supported and believed in the Nazis. And often, those who did not join the Hitler youth were considered suspect. Many Jewish boys joined and avoided persecution, does that mean they supported Hitler? I doubt it.
Joining was just a thing everyone did, obviously if Ratzinger was chosen as Pope by the holiest men in Catholicism then they know he's not exactly a Nazi. Besides, he was young. I think at 78 years old he has grown much wiser.

quote:Originally posted by Michal...obviously if Ratzinger was chosen as Pope by the holiest men in Catholicism then they know he's not exactly a Nazi.


Actually, many Cardinals lined up against his possible papacy...

Can we reach an accord at one focal point?

The human mind can easily be manipulated.

(removed--theory of contradiction override)

All I can gather from this is that it's probably best to never form an opinion or build upon an opinion, so's to not risk being wrong. If that's your goal in life.

You're confusing two things: the human mind, with human action. While someone can be manipulated to do many things, it is often very difficult to suppress that person's true opinions about what they are doing. What makes this so easy is usually fear. The Pope, for instance, was afraid that he would be punished if he didn't join the Hitler youth, whether he was afraid from the government or his own family's reaction doesn't matter. But while he was doing those things, it was known (or at least reported) that he wasn't ever very enthusiastic. But what about all of those other exceptions? Some may have truly hated the Jews, or may have just hated and needed something to focus that raw emotion at, while others may have seemed to agree with what they were doing but deep down (even unbeknownst to them) they were in rebellion. Yes, there are people whose minds actually are easily molded...but you would be hard-pressed to actually find one.

That is also the reason why you can't accept that people's beliefs are right, because even if they defend themselves and their beliefs, they may know that they are wrong -- which is why you must form opinions about everything that you can.

That statement hit me the hardest. How can you say that you should never form an opinion about anything? Opinions are what drive you. If you don't think and consider your surroundings and what they mean to you, then you're no better than those few people who accept everything that they are told and go out to kill some Jews and Blacks and Homosexuals because they actually think that those people are what have ruined their way of life.

Without opinions you have an empty shell sitting on top of your shoulders.

Not only that, but your entire reasoning is based off of one extremely naive premise: "you might be wrong." If it's your opinion, you can never be wrong. You might change your opinion with more information or consideration into the subject, but your original opinion was still absolutely correct at the time.

Also, even if you somehow still believe that you might be wrong, who cares? The only thing you'll lose by finding out that you're wrong is a little self-respect -- which will be easily made up through new knowledge and experience.

On the other hand, if you choose to run away from an opinion because you might be wrong, then you're just a coward who runs away from any risk that comes his way, you're the Joseph Garcin of our time.

quote:The Pope, for instance, was afraid that he would be punished if he didn't join the Hitler youth, whether he was afraid from the government or his own family's reaction doesn't matter. But while he was doing those things, it was known (or at least reported) that he wasn't ever very enthusiastic. But what about all of those other exceptions? Some may have truly hated the Jews, or may have just hated and needed something to focus that raw emotion at, while others may have seemed to agree with what they were doing but deep down (even unbeknownst to them) they were in rebellion.

Joining the Hitler Youth was almost mandatory and involuntary. Kids really weren't given the option. When you're repeatedly taught you're a member of the superior race, day in day out, for ten years, it begins to sink in. It's amazing and quite stimulating to think what power can do to feeble minds. Actions, from my experience, are tied to upbringing. A boy raised by a well-thought father figure, always sure to reason before acting, has a better chance of reasoning before acting. Whereas a crazed man, acting on instinct, may yield a son with similar characteristics.

quote:That is also the reason why you can't accept that people's beliefs are right, because even if they defend themselves and their beliefs, they may know that they are wrong - which is why you must form opinions about everything that you can.

Point taken. In everything I've seen, there are tradeoffs. Only a few extreme beliefs that are truly wrong.

quote:That statement hit me the hardest. How can you say that you should never form an opinion about anything? Opinions are what drive you. If you don't think and consider your surroundings and what they mean to you, then you're no better than those few people who accept everything that they are told and go out to kill some Jews and Blacks and Homosexuals because they actually think that those people are what have ruined their way of life.

Opinions drive mankind. It does not have to be this way. Ask Rover what his stance is on abortion, or how he feels about the new tax codes. I never specifically said, "this is how I like to pretend I live my life." It's a very viable option, but I haven't succumbed just yet.

quote:Without opinions you have an empty shell sitting on top of your shoulders.

And will civilisation cease to exist?

quote:Not only that, but your entire reasoning is based off of one extremely naive premise: "you might be wrong." If it's your opinion, you can never be wrong. You might change your opinion with more information or consideration into the subject, but your original opinion was still absolutely correct at the time.

Only the outlandish remarks recieve this much...intepretation.


You've the ability to think. You've the ability to reason. In doing so, you're exercising natural laws.

However, just as you've the laws at work, I can utilise them also. I can use the laws to use you, unless you can see through it. To make things easier for me, I can hone my smooth-talking skills and move up through the ranks of society into a position of power. I can then draft an army of believers, teach them whatever propoganda I've decided to be worthwhile. After ten years of putting people to work, you've a society to follow your lead and direction.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this plan, no matter how terribly selfish it is. And you're attempting to erase freedom of thought from the books. Does it really matter? In the big scheme of things, no. Roll the dice, chances are it won't happen in your neighbourhood anyway. How unfortunate if it does.

My only point. Form opinions. You're right. Negate opinion. You're still right.
Manipulation is a form of opinion, but it operates through various exterior mediums and replaces personal opinion with someone else's views. You can say "why not just think for yourself?" It's really not that easy, when millions of people around you are all caught up in the same craze. Gone to Hitler Youth meetings for years. Parents preach the same material as the schools, which are definitely under strict Nazi control. The Gestapo roams the streets. Hitler speaks to your people on the radio every few nights. The country's dirt poor, in the middle of a depression. This man is not only restoring the greatness of the German people but will also establish the Third Reich and extend the German empire to encompass all superior German people.

Pile it all together, and it's just as crazy to say "don't listen, do what you want" as "don't form an opinion." Produce or die.

This is very helpful. Keep it up and I'll avoid Garcin at all costs. :)

First off, thank you for having this conversation with me, it's not every day that you challenge someone's ideas without them misunderstanding and getting upset. Now for the fun part.

What's interesting to note is that while we were performing our little opinionated dance, Pulp created this thread about a what he thought was a racism test (and, to some extent, it is). What it actually was has everything to do with our conversation and can help me out quite a bit because I think you're missing my point.

The test was designed to determine the difference between what we believe, what we think we believe, and what we want others to believe (take note that I'm using the word "believe" in a slightly different manner from the way it was used earlier). This harkens back to the idea of the ego, the superego, and the id. Basically, when we come into contact with society, we are constantly assessing everyone else's reactions to our presence. There is a secret code hidden in every gesture or tone of voice that the deepest parts of our mind is unraveling, and what we do with that information determines who we are throughout our entire lives.

Now, if we take that information and incorporate it into our personality in a way that helps us get along in life without being branded as an outsider (which, under certain conditions means death), then we have plastered it onto what we want others to believe. And, like a folded towel out in the rain, the idea will slowly soak down into deeper levels as it is applied more and more. That's how it gets into the part of us that is what we think we believe -- we've tricked ourselves into thinking one thing so that there isn't a conflict anymore between what we act like we believe and what we really believe.

That's where your argument lies. The idea has been pounded into someone's head so many times that they think they believe it, when in actuality, they know, subliminally, that they don't agree. Most people go on and don't notice anything, while others, due to the mental stress, manifest their illness physically (Freud would say that we do it as punishment, but I don't believe that).

What people really believe, and by this I mean the nearly unalterable essence of our being, is so difficult to change that most people go on their entire adult lives with these same beliefs -- most of which are relics from our feral heritage.

What made it so easy for the Nazis to convince people to become racist is that it's natural for people to hate other races. But the extent of what people will do with their hate is intensely limited by that same area of consciousness. There are reports of prison camp guards becoming violently ill after being in the camps too long and scholars (rightfully, I believe) attributed this to the nature of what the guards were doing, which was later described by this phenomena: the friction between what we believe and what we think we believe.

Now onto your comments about opinion, I don't fully understand your stance on this subject as you've blurred the lines somewhat, but I'll try to respond to the best of my ability.

quote:Originally posted by enjoyincubus
And will civilisation cease to exist?

Civilization may or may not continue depending on your definition of the word. For instance, ants have a kind of civilization. They scurry about and do everything in their power to ensure the survival of the species. Humans act in the same way. We scurry about milling the grain, raising the cattle, and yes, even working at McDonalds. You may say that our initiative is the survival of ourselves, not society, but the whole idea of any family or brotherhood negates that point.

The difference between the two arises from one fundamental characteristic: man's capacity to think. While we can support civilization on our backs, what's holding up Humanity is our mind.

I didn't read any of these posts, just the lat sentence in vijcht's. speaking of the human mind holding us back. Did you know F1 cars are automatic, due to the fact that the human brain can't compute the information fasst enough, making automatic transmissions more efficient.

Yes, but contrarily, humans are intentionally kept in the loop for remote control military operations. I'm sure you can guess why.

By the way, that's not what I said anywhere in my post.

I may seem a bit late, but during the Great Depression, the Nazis must have seemed a good thing to the poverty-stricken civilians of Germany.
A bit more pointless rambling:
Every family in Germany had to have a picture of Hitler on their wall.
Has anyone here ever read The Wave? If not I recommend it.
Racism can be pretty spontaneous, a few years ago, people filled out a truthful survey, which required them to say which races they did and didn't like.
Asians, black people, etc were all included, but on the list there were 3 made up races.
Among them all, those 3 made up ones were the highest.

Very interesting Vijch, your reasoning is very good, I agree completely.

Just so you guys know, I'm not going to continue this discussion with enjoyincubus because he has just sent me a PM explaining how he never really believed in what he was saying.

I can't tell you how much this pisses me off so please don't ever try that [IMAGE] with me again.

If any of you out there have any points of your own, I'll do my best to discuss them with you, but you'd better have thought about what you're saying and believe it too.

Think about it this way:
If you wanted to be someone, you pretty much had to join the Nazi youth. Don't join it and you can forget good schools.

"what's holding up Humanity is our mind."

you did to say it

Vash, there's a huge difference between the mind holding us BACK and holding us UP.

By the way, incubus sort of explained his intentions, but I'm not sure I completely understand and, from what I do, I don't agree with most of it.

OH HEY GUYS, I JUST STUMBLED UPON A BUNCH OF NUMBERS AND A LOAD OF OLD RECORDS AND BELIFES! I WILL MAKE EVERYONE BELIEVE THAT NEXT WEEK WILL BE NATIONAL COOKING WEEK!

Like, I never get bad luck on Friday 13th's (next one is May, children!) so why should I believe anything like this? The majority of the time, people will just take whatever days they can and start saying.... OOOO NAUSTRADAMUS!

The majority of the time, it's just precursor bull[IMAGE] that people always seem to believe, but you'll find that if God or any other spiritual being REALLY didn't want us on this planet, they would of done it by now.

Really, it's all just crap people say to get noticed.

Zombies will devour us all!
That's a real man's way to die!