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Soldat Forums - Soldat Talk - General Discussions
Deleted User
April 30, 2005, 4:03 am
Not directed towards anyone specifically:

The weapons are fine as they are. Any strategy is fine. People really need to stop b*tching about weapon balance and spray. First of all, silent saying that DE spray is harder to avoid than AK or Aug is laughable. DE has such short range it's hardly even possible to spray them. If you're pretty far from your opponent, then the DE shots will be spread. If you're close enough to hit effectively, then it's definitely not spray. And again, 7 rounds versus 30 and 40 rounds respectively.

I also hear alot of "you spray when coming over the hill" tossed around soldat. Well, if you're so much of a predictable dumbass that you can be sprayed at the same place every game, then you deserve to be sprayed.

Any time I decide to minimi, it's considered spray. I can even pull up demos of me shooting only at sighted players and get whined at. It fires a little bit faster than the AK, has a slightly larger clip, yet has almost twice the reloading time. People need to learn how to adapt, instead of using their same old generic strat and whining when they are too lazy to figure out a counter.

I could give a damn if people spray. The only time I say "nice spray" is when people are whining about spray and are spraying themselves. Then I hear some horrible excuse, like "I was aiming at your bullets" despite the fact that I wasn't shooting.

Whatever, the hypocrisy will continue, as well as the whining. I could name a fair share of people who whine at spray equally as much as they dish it out.

In conclusion:

1. Preferably stop b*tching about spray and weapon balance.
2. If you cannot control yourself from number 1, don't spray yourself.
3. If you deny number 2, then there's a good chance you're full of sh*t.
4. If you are not number 3 (highly unlikely), then you're slightly better off. Just keep working on number 1 until you stop pissing me off.

-

Words taken from YoZiZzO in a post off Fractured Soldat. I hope you whiners kiss YoZ's fat booty.

All I really want to say is, shut up. I mean, if you hate Soldat so much, leave? This applies to all online videogames in my opinion. Even Monopoly. Flame me, or kiss me, I don't care anymore. Ban ban ban! ^_______^

vash763
April 30, 2005, 4:36 am
I completely agree

*kiss* (cause u said to)

Deleted User
April 30, 2005, 4:58 am
Everyone should just use M79's.
*smooch*

lieroguy
April 30, 2005, 5:27 am
I agree wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, this post will eventually leave the front page and people won't see it and the newbs won't pay attention anyway. Remember a couple of days ago when there were two posts right after each other, each by two different people but with the same subject and same question?

As retarded as people are, it should not be so surprizing that our every action has to be restricted by their idocy. We can't just *kill* them. Well, not legaly, anyway.

MikeShinoda.pheonix
April 30, 2005, 5:54 am
I agree with you S4R, but all you can do is ignore, this post will probably not change anything. It's a shame you can't enjoy this game anymore without someone complaining about something every 3 lines of text.

The funny thing is that everyone that DOES complain will totally agree with you. I love it.

Icarius
April 30, 2005, 6:15 am
I have to laugh at the ammount of times you say Spray, I can't help but think of the /piss command.

Captain Ben
April 30, 2005, 7:43 am
It's a good thing campers didn't come up at all...

reckon
April 30, 2005, 8:08 am
As long as there are whiners in the game of soldat, we'll never hear the end of spraying and praying.

Captain Ben
April 30, 2005, 9:06 am
Anyway, I found a way around the 'barretards' and sprayers...

ThaD
April 30, 2005, 9:38 am
"The weapons are fine as they are."

dream on, you can't play competitively Soldat anymore


Denacke
April 30, 2005, 10:04 am
quote:Originally posted by ThaD"The weapons are fine as they are."

dream on, you can't play competitively Soldat anymore



agreed.

Deleted User
April 30, 2005, 10:04 am
The god's know i agree S4R.. Whining should be illegal!
Though there's really not much you can do about it, except countering them, as the targets they make of them selfs..
I allways track down the first moron, pissing me of.. It's actually quite a rush killing someone you sort of hate..
Good Hunt m8!

grand_diablo
April 30, 2005, 11:28 am
the TNL guys are working on alternative weapon inis, and those they have worked out so far, are nice.

Autos became stronger, not so much by damage points, but by the fact that they now affect the enemie's aim drastically (and bullets ricochet), and as they shoot in a high frequency, also constantly. The combination of this is called minimi: Auto + 50 bullets clip. Sorry, there were just too many games i have seen this theory proven, when someone who wouldnt have reached a lot suddenly was on top of the stats after switching to minimi.

To say "if you get sprayed on the same place over and over, you deserve it" is imo quite ignorant. If people can avoid spray, they usually do it. Now, where can you avoid the sprayage on top of ctf_Viet, in the middle upper part on Laos, in the ctf_Run tunnel, ctf_Maya upper part, ctf_Equinox tunnels (thank god this map isnt played very often), and in general in tunnel like parts of a map. Prove me wrong.

Just compare it:
Encounter it with deagles?
Nah, minimi has a greater reach, and before you really got the right angle, youre dead usually.

Barret or Ruger maybe?
Maybe if you run and hide. But not in a tunnel. Bink galore!

Spas?
You'll normally die before you come even close enough.

M79?
Maybe more chance in narrow tunnels, but you'll get binked before usually.

so all you can do, is spray back -> so the match ends up in a sprayfest, like so often clanwars do.
Thats why I greatly support the ambitions of creating a "fair" weapons.ini. The barret problem was solved ok, the bink effect is a nice idea. But unfortunately this advantage for autos has not been compensated by lowering their general damage.

Mini Man
April 30, 2005, 11:29 am
Lol i agree too..
But honestly...wheres a game without whiners?

lastpatriot
April 30, 2005, 11:52 am
I agree, but every game has whiners. Yes, even online Monopoly has them. I hate how Barret users whine about bink, when you have the most powerful weapon in the game. And a secondary weapon(why do all "snipers" use the LAW as their second? Wouldn't it be smarter to use the SOCOM? Or maybe I have been playing with noobs lately.)

zoldat
April 30, 2005, 12:13 pm
i think spray is cool :P
when u jump behind a barrel or sandbag to avoid a havy bullet rain and everybody runs for cover

.alex.oner.
April 30, 2005, 12:25 pm
eh, i just dont use autos that often :) spraying gets annoying when done repeativley, but normaly you can play fine if you ignore it..

grand_diablo
April 30, 2005, 1:03 pm
quote:Originally posted by .alex.oner.eh, i just dont use autos that often :) spraying gets annoying when done repeativley, but normaly you can play fine if you ignore it..


that depends on who you play against. Fine, if they got one sprayer, its ok. If there are two of them, it depends. One minimi/ak and one mp5 (as mp5 is not as annoying and has a small clip) its at my personal tolerance border. But some clans - i wont state any names, those who I mean usually know it - take 2 minimis, or 3 automatics at all, preferably - but not only - when they are about to lose. Too bad the "were behind, lets spray them with 2 minimis and 1 ak" tactic works quite often :X

Melba
April 30, 2005, 3:41 pm
Minimi is GAYGAYGAY!

:(

Keron Cyst
April 30, 2005, 5:03 pm
quote:Originally posted by grand_diablo... To say "if you get sprayed on the same place over and over, you deserve it" is imo quite ignorant. If people can avoid spray, they usually do it. Now, where can you avoid the sprayage on top of ctf_Viet, in the middle upper part on Laos, in the ctf_Run tunnel, ctf_Maya upper part, ctf_Equinox tunnels (thank god this map isnt played very often), and in general in tunnel like parts of a map. Prove me wrong.

Just compare it:
Encounter it with deagles?
Nah, minimi has a greater reach, and before you really got the right angle, youre dead usually.

Barret or Ruger maybe?
Maybe if you run and hide. But not in a tunnel. Bink galore!

Spas?
You'll normally die before you come even close enough.

M79?
Maybe more chance in narrow tunnels, but you'll get binked before usually.

so all you can do, is spray back -> so the match ends up in a sprayfest, like so often clanwars do....

Perhaps increase auto gravity so their bullets don't fly as far?...

grand_diablo
April 30, 2005, 5:06 pm
would be too unrealistic. Itd be enough to lower their damage values by default.

Deleted User
April 30, 2005, 5:11 pm
When I get my server back up, I'm just gunna ban people that whine over and over. I've realized everyone whines, even me. I guess you can't help it. I may not whine much, but you can catch me every once in a while.

If there are 4 campers on ctf_Kampf, yeah, I whine. I say, stop camping and help the team out. and yeah, I do it over and over, 'til the point that I just leave. I just wish new players in Soldat would actually come to the forums, and read them.

Oh well. I guess you can't change a community this huge. :O

Deleted User
April 30, 2005, 5:20 pm
I personally agree with Grand Diablo, when such a high percentage of soldat players use 1 or 2 specific weapons, its pretty obvious that theres a certain advantage that weapon has over the others. There is currently about 5-6 active competitive clans in NA, out of them I can not name one person who uses either spas or mp5 in a clanwar/scrim.

obviously MM has stated before that weapon balance is not something he will work on in future releases, and thats the reason he has released a weapons editor...

I think a group of members, like the TNL staff is currently doing should attempt to atleast balance weapons so that each is used as frequently as all others, and if they can make this perfect "balace" they should obviously release their stats to the public, so others can use them.

Keron Cyst
April 30, 2005, 5:54 pm
quote:Originally posted by S4R... If there are 4 campers on ctf_Kampf, yeah, I whine. I say, stop camping and help the team out. and yeah, I do it over and over, 'til the point that I just leave. I just wish new players in Soldat would actually come to the forums, and read them....

The main reason for my pouting is for campers who sit there and stay camping even when their team's flag is being carried away :P

Don't change anything about the XM214', tho'. It's weak as it is, and it's really fun to test your calculation ability and try to fire a 'LAW missile at a Minigunner off-screen (I did that once) B)

Famine
April 30, 2005, 6:23 pm
Until the version comes out where I cannot die, then it is not BALANCED!

Marbire
April 30, 2005, 8:05 pm
I agree completely with Yoz's post...... although sometimes I do think autos can be overpowered, I don't think it's totally unstoppable.

Karvinen
April 30, 2005, 9:15 pm
I don't see many people whining about spraying&praying. "Camper" is the most common whine in my opinion.

murska
April 30, 2005, 11:07 pm
I find it annoying when someone shouts CAMPERS, and I reply: ...are useful at defence, they call ME a camper. Sure, I use sniper, but I rush, kill someone in close range, use secondary, 'nades, everything there is, reload, kill someone, stay alive and take the flag. I may camp sometimes, but not over a min at same place. I sometimes stay in cover, rush from cover to cover, wait in enemy base, get the flag and RUN RUN RUN. It's fun. As is staying in a place where guys can't see you have the flag. It's fun to see them running and shouting: Where is our flag.

Keron Cyst
May 1, 2005, 1:30 am
But the real campers are those who just sit there even when their flag is being carried away :P

Judge_Man
May 1, 2005, 6:20 am
quote:Originally posted by SwazoEveryone should just use M79's.
*smooch*

my dream!

But i totally agree with GD

Spectral
May 1, 2005, 6:29 am
the map ctf_Nuubia is good for all m79s. pick it during cw's

Nukem
May 1, 2005, 1:09 pm
what we have to keep in mind is that lowering the autos dmg wont stop ppl from spraying...
it will result in less use of autos, ok. so in total, there will be less spray. but for what price? all auto palyers that dont spray get screwed, too. and if someone uses an automaticc weapon, lower dmg wont stop him from spraying.

Deleted User
May 1, 2005, 4:51 pm
Geez, my whole point is Soldat is fine how it is. Nothing needs to be changed. In my opinion, all the guns are balanced out. The only reason why some guns are better than others are because it depends on who is holding the weapon. If you've never used a M79 before, and get hosed down by an auto, of course you're gunna think autos are overpowered. :O!

ThaD
May 1, 2005, 4:56 pm
as i said before: dream on

Deleted User
May 1, 2005, 6:47 pm
I agree S4R... but a little whining is just good for ya =)

grand_diablo
May 1, 2005, 11:49 pm
Eerrr

automatics have never received a weakening to encounter the bonus they gain from the bink effect. just look trough the weapons.ini collection that containts the damage settings from this and some older versions. Period.

Sure it depends on the map too, but if you take Viet for example, teams taking 2+ autos (minimi, ak, steyr, mp5 is acceptable as it is, simply cause of its low range and small clip.) are advantaged. This generally goes for flat and/or open maps. Lowering automatics damage woould compensate the bonus they received from the bink effect, so "grouping" them would not create such an advantage - leading to a wider variety of weapons used and a better playing experience.

On publics you either have a lot of barreters, usually 50%+ of them camping, like in 1.2.0 and before, or you experience a sprayfest full of minimi's and Aks. The barret problem was solved imo, the barret is fine as it is, the new problem are the automatics. Generally all weapons became too strong (see the weapons.ini history) as their power was increased with each version. TNL crew is working on balancing, and this is succeeding, slowly, but succeeding. This is what I see as a chance for future clanwars not ending up in a sprayfest when ppl who cant take a loss start overusing automatics once their situation gets severe.

Hanayo
May 4, 2005, 11:33 am
Sorry but i cant agree with you, S4R.
On most official maps automatics ARE lame. Maybe you never tried to play Dropdown or Viet in a clanwar against a "skilled" enemy using Minimis, Aks and Steyrs ...

We prefer clanwars without automatics. Luckily there are some clans like MD which agree with us and its much more fun to play with them.

Deleted User
May 4, 2005, 1:01 pm
You're not seeing the problem. It's not the guns, its the players that use them. That's why I'm fine with all the guns as they are now. Most players either don't know how to abuse them or are honorable enough not to abuse them. Anyone who does is just being a retard.

Deleted User
May 4, 2005, 1:13 pm
I like automatics... not the minimi though.. but anyways im using the deagles now

DeMonIc
May 4, 2005, 2:53 pm
In my opinion, the weapon balance of soldat is near perfect in one on one standards: each weapon can be countered by another weapon or tactic.
When it goes 2v2, or 3v3.. you need to do the counter tactic with 2, 3 people, and you can't win by only countering, since there won't be anyone who does the capping.

grand_diablo
May 4, 2005, 2:55 pm
quote:Originally posted by Lapis_LazuliYou're not seeing the problem. It's not the guns, its the players that use them. That's why I'm fine with all the guns as they are now. Most players either don't know how to abuse them or are honorable enough not to abuse them. Anyone who does is just being a retard.


I think you're wrong. If "grouping" certain weapons (mostly Ak & Minimi, sometimes Steyr) can compensate missing skill and turns matches around very often, then there must be something wrong. Of course, its the choice of the player which weapon to use, but still its the weapon turning the tide, not the player, since he wont become much more skillfull all of a sudden, when he decides to use Minimi/Ak.

MikeShinoda.pheonix
May 4, 2005, 5:16 pm
This version has managed to make the users of every weapon whine. Doesn't that mean its balanced?

Deleted User
May 4, 2005, 6:35 pm
i never see ne1 complain about spraying for some reason

lastpatriot
May 4, 2005, 8:59 pm
Me neither, it's always about barret users.

Teh Panda
May 4, 2005, 10:25 pm
CLOSE THE GENERAL DISCUSSION! ...
Well, its nothing but [IMAGE] here nowadays.

that fuking sniper
May 5, 2005, 5:28 am
Bah, consider the principle of not being satisfied with the weapon balance and still finding the complacency to not complain. I do this all the time. The only thing that bothers me is hypocrisy or senseless whining (as in not warranted). Hypocrisy can be seen all the time. Simply go to U13 with a fake nickname and our nice, known community members will initiate a kick vote because they don't know you. Happened with me alot. This happened to me just yesterday, when I was playing under '12345'. I don't point fingers at people because I have the courtesy of keeping them annonymous. I don't hate them or anything, but I'm just pointing out hypocrisy. People also [IMAGE] at you for using *insert weapon here* when they don't know you, but find it more understandable if they did. How do I know this? I've had countless false nicknames which I've used to conduct little experiments around areas where the people who play there think they are priviliged. I was vote-kicked the first time I was seen with a barret, and I suck at it. I came back with my original name and nobody complained. Nobody. My false names? Netherxil, 12345, Aladin, Grim Evergreen, Slodier (misspelled on purpose), and many others. I was called a sprayer using the AUG on kampf, and subsequently voted against, as well. This happened when I was shooting at players. I don't spray on kampf.

There you have it. For one, I'd say that, in my worthless, humble opinion, the weapons are not ballanced, but I still love this game and will continue to play it as a decent person and not [IMAGE] and whine on every opprotune moment.

That said, I'd be a hypocrite for this post, because I [IMAGE] and whine infront of my clan because I think it's reasonable to do it with people who I know very well, and would take it as a joke, rather than a complaint.

Captain Ben
May 5, 2005, 12:04 pm
I don't complain anymore. I just hate it how someone sits in a bush, kills you 3 times, and when you retaliate, WHAM!! You're a camper!
Anyone who's played No Mercy would see what I mean.

Avarax
May 5, 2005, 12:49 pm
autos & socom & ruger = spray
barret & law = camp
minigun = surf
m79 = boost
knife & chainsaw = spawnkill

almost every weapon has it own special use people keep complaining about. if you complain about spray or camping, complain about the others as well. but since almost every weapon has its special use everything is fine, spas and deagles dont, but i think deagles are strong anyways (though still balanced) and spas is VERY deadly when in the right hands so stop complaing as already said in this thread :O
i also like those guys which now say "yeah i totally agree with you!" which said in other threads "yeah, camping is so lame and minigun surfing :'(. deagles ARE WAY TO STRONG and rugers too, both 2 hit kill weapons with fast reload :'(!!!111"

if you are one of these, just say "ban all weapons, they are all lame."

i spray myself but whats the big deal? i dont b1tch around if someone else does.


Deleted User
May 6, 2005, 2:16 pm
u dint mention the deagles YEY

Keron Cyst
May 7, 2005, 12:00 am
@Avarax: I don't see how the rifle could be viewed as a "spray" weapon...

Deleted User
May 7, 2005, 12:34 am
yea.. what is there to spray? there's only one bullet.

Captain Ben
May 7, 2005, 1:10 am
Who knows? You might get lucky!

Deleted User
May 7, 2005, 3:33 am
what has sex to do with spraying?
...and who use chainsaw anyway?

Keron Cyst
May 7, 2005, 4:29 am
There are people who fly up to those hanging respawn platforms in ctf_Crashed and rip off soldatens' heads :-P

Da cHeeSeMaN
May 7, 2005, 10:10 am
aaaaaaaaaaaaaa the pink aaaaa my eyes aaaaaaaa omg stop whining about whiners whiner

SeanCapsAss
May 13, 2005, 2:30 pm
quote:Originally posted by PoopThere is currently about 5-6 active competitive clans in NA, out of them I can not name one person who uses either spas or mp5 in a clanwar/scrim.

I'm hurt :(

DT
May 13, 2005, 4:01 pm
heh the 2nd weapon is starting to be fun to use... not as powerful as deagles but still...
and the knife... its really good with my mp5

EspaceeMegadeth
May 15, 2005, 2:47 pm
Yeah you are right knife(its my secondary weapon too).Its fun to throww it.

vegkl
May 16, 2005, 8:43 pm
there is really no use in brinigin this up, in a game like this people will always find something to whine about.