juse saw a reality show on 'reality tv' , didnt bother to check the show's name but it was about New Zealand's airport & boarder or something.
anyway, something just made me wonder - did people lose their mind and heart?
the case was;
an old turkish man, bearly talking english (basic english only), is going through a normal yet idiotic item check.
a "nice" female officer asks him if he got food with him, the old man tries to explain he got "jelly", but he actually meant honey, just he couldnt explain himself.
anyway, the female officer preforms a search through the old man's belongings, and finds two fruits (grapefruits if i remembe correctly) and the honey jar.
the female officer immediatly tells the other officers to have a body search on him. they humiliate him completley, and find nothing else ofcourse. so the old man organizes as the stupid female officer speaks to the camera, saying: "yea we're doing our job very well in here, people should know its illegal to enter New Zealand with those forbidden items".
...WTF I SAY...
anyway, the old man organizes himself, only to be warned by another officer that he got 14 days to pay a fine of 200 NZ $ for trying to enter New Zealand with two grapefruits and a honey jar. (!)
the old man, that looks like hell on earth, is pleading the officer to let the whole thing go, since he's bearly an english speaking person.. not to mention not having 200 NZ $ at all.
the cocky officer announce with a super-hero pride - rules are rules, we cant let anyone bypass them, take it as a lesson for the next time.
the old man finally paid through his group members' help.

what the [IMAGE] is wrong with NZ ?
i could understand the fuss about drugs, dangerous weapons, stolen properties etc.. but grapefruits and a jar of honey? god.
your laws suck huge balls.

WHERE ARE YOUR MIND SUPERKILL. dont u know that is freakin dangerous!?! u can easely set fire to the honey jar and use it as a molotov to funk up the whole plane and stuff.. and the two grapefruits he could have put under his shirt to make it looks like he had boobs, and seduce the pilots to crashing into the white house.. NZ .. keep up the good law work !!

seriously though that is retarded :P

Not that retarded certain countries have restrictions on things like food where you have to declare them and pay tax often as well

no import smuggle smuggle
cough grape fruits and honey are invasive species too! >.<

No they're not.

honey's a species?

Represent.

hehe wait 'til the kiwi(s) get here :>

Wonder what would happen with a civilian from Palestina with grapefruits and a jar of honey crossing the israel-palestinian border.

quote:Originally posted by PulpWonder what would happen with a civilian from Palestina with grapefruits and a jar of honey crossing the israel-palestinian border.



hah--err.. sorry.

Its true NZ is a complete backwater. Aviod at all costs.

The show I think you're referring to is called border patrol and it follows customs officers and stuff. They also act this way to every single person they deal with on the show, so its not like they were picking on JUST him.

In New Zealand they have strict rules because they are trying to protect the "clean green" image that we apparantly have. Anyways, if they stop a person who hardly speaks english they try to explain it best to them at customs. Whenever I've re-entered New Zealand from being overseas there are ALOT of non english speaking people and they do explain it very carefully to ALL people that they must declare certain items but some people think they can get away with it or dont listen at all. Dealing with that many non english speaking people they do realise they have to explain these things and try they're best.

I know it seems harsh but thats just how it is here.

Wow that has to be my longest post like... ever. ^___^keke

I was thinking of going to New Zealand for the geology...you sit right on very interesting tectonic plate boundaries.

Only in New Zealand. Losing the World Cup and now this!?!

quote:Originally posted by Milkman DanThey also act this way to every single person they deal with on the show, so its not like they were picking on JUST him.

In New Zealand they have strict rules because they are trying to protect the "clean green" image that we apparantly have. Anyways, if they stop a person who hardly speaks english they try to explain it best to them at customs. Whenever I've re-entered New Zealand from being overseas there are ALOT of non english speaking people and they do explain it very carefully to ALL people that they must declare certain items but some people think they can get away with it or dont listen at all. Dealing with that many non english speaking people they do realise they have to explain these things and try they're best.

I know it seems harsh but thats just how it is here.

Wow that has to be my longest post like... ever. ^___^keke


about the red part - wow, thanks for making my point even bigger.

but anyway, i'm not talking about the lack of english by the old man's side, i'm more like trying to understans what in goddamn hell is worth 200$ fine in bringing some grapefruits that you're going to eat later anyway?

Pulp, palastenians are going through borders with all of their personal equipment sometimes, yet nothing happens. they wont get a fine for having anything that's for sure. its either going into interregations for having a weapon, or just keep going.
so no, nothing will happen if they go through a border with grapefruits and a jar of honey, dumb nazi.

quote:
but anyway, i'm not talking about the lack of english by the old man's side, i'm more like trying to understans what in goddamn hell is worth 200$ fine in bringing some grapefruits that you're going to eat later anyway?

How do they know he will eat it? Even if he did, fruits from foreign countries can carry a lot of harmful stuff with them. Like in the united states, we have a lot of problems because of people bringing in foreign agriculture. Just near my house, no less than 2 miles away, we are no longer aloud to walk on the path by 2 lakes because they built up a lot of algae (which came to the united states when it was carried by foreign agriculture) and sealed off the river filling it up. 3 years later it's stuffed up and all the fish* died and drifted to the side and now the whole area smells like [IMAGE]. You know that pond with all the German toads exploding? That's happening because of some bacteria foreign horses brought with them to a racetrack by that pond (Or so they think..)

That is why they need to be strict with their import/export rules. It's obvious he was clueless and had no intention to do anything bad with the grapefruit (obviously), but that goes for just about every person who brought a problem with them.

* those fish were all a type of bass. Ironically those bass were also accidentally carried into the country by a foreigner and dumped into the lake. The bass then consumed nearly all of the other fish inside the lake besides the Northerns (It used to be a popular lake for fishing wall-eye :( ).

Border Security by any chance? Or On the Borderline or something?

Wow, that sucks.

quote:Originally posted by Unlucky 13Border Security by any chance? Or On the Borderline or something?

That one with Grant Bowler?
The Sydney harbour has the same issue with starfish.
A japanese prawn trawler's bilge water contained starfish eggs.
Now they're killing all of the sea life. It's taken very seriously in Australia.
I got threatened with a stripsearch!

quote:Pulp, palastenians are going through borders with all of their personal equipment sometimes, yet nothing happens. they wont get a fine for having anything that's for sure. its either going into interregations for having a weapon, or just keep going.
so no, nothing will happen if they go through a border with grapefruits and a jar of honey, dumb nazi.

I saw the documentary "checkpoint" ( http://www.amythosfilms.com/checkpoint.htm ) about the checkpoints in Israel, SK. I rather believe the images and words of decent journalists, than another meaning based on ambiguous facts.

If you call me a nazi again in the future, it will only prove your stupidity, vapidity, ignorance, etc...

I'm not going to discuss this any further as we already have proven in other threads about a similar subject the next thing : there is no possibility to have a decent conversation with you about this subject. (If that's your fault, or mine, that's on you, I don't care.)

Now back over to New-Zealand.

You believe a documentary you watched to be better than the account of someone who actually lives there? Have you actually been to Israel?

Absolutely, Geologist.

As i rather believe what I read in the papers about the US as a US-civilian will tell me about the US. Journalists are most of the time much more informed about the subjects they write as a random person.

And, of course, there is the "objectivity versus subjectivity-case".

To give you an example, my grandfather told me a lot of stories about WWII, and i never distrusted his words, but sometimes i knew he made the wrong conclusion, cause of the knowledge we have know about WWII. For me, a scientific book about WWII has more value than the authenthic words of my grandfather, how harsh that maybe sound.

It's basically quite hard to give an objective view when you are involved in any way with the subject, although subjective information will also help to make the information as objective as it should be.

SK's words are just a very small map in the big Israel-folder. Conclusions will be only made after reading the whole folder, although i won't neglect the noble deed of discussing the authenticity of any map before reading and conluding.

:D Danke.

quote:Originally posted by The GeologistI was thinking of going to New Zealand for the geology...you sit right on very interesting tectonic plate boundaries.

you should! then we can meet up and have a lan party and drink V :D

lol...I just might. Seriously. My campus has a program for studying abroad in New Zealand. If this pans out I'd have roughly a semester there between the two (?) islands. While I won't bring grapefruits and other goodies into the country, it would be refreshing to actually know someone in the area should I end up in a certain city.

Yeh thats happens in Australia too, I live in West Aus and to get into South Australia u have to surrender ur honey fruit nuts etc. Well not ur nuts but peanuts lol. Its for quarantine so fruit flies and other pest diseases cant get in.

Tehehehe, your fate will rest in my hands :D

Geologist, if you do go there, don't bring up sports. Or the nataional anthem.

Or call them all Australians like one of the royal family did.

just watched another episode and yea, its called border patrol.
its basiclly the same thing over again.. people getting fines of 200$ for bringing along fruits.
with one exception of a german folk that brought a joint, he got sent back to germany.. that's understandble but fruits? :/

there was a chinese woman that brought some kind of soup, the item checker found it and told her in a very nasty tone "whats this?? couldnt you tell me you had these??" - while the woman cant even speak english, she just kept crying while waiting for her daughter to explain what's going on to her. eventually they had to pay 200$.. jesus [IMAGE]ing christ, a mother coming over from china with all of their crappy conditions over there, to visit her daughter in a place where she thought has abit more sense than china, eventually getting yelled at and had to pay money for a minor problem such as bringing along food.

they also showed a scene from an older episode where a chinese had to pay 100,000$ for having some sort of duck meat in her bag.

i mean sure, if it meant so much for them that some foods are "illegal" in NZ then they could just confiscate them and let the person go off with a warning. its not like its a harmfull act such as rape or murder that the person MUST be punished.

Superkill: Read what i said and you will understand.....pest bugs are bad and spread.

That's all well and good when you're talking about items that can actually spread things non-indigenous lifeforms into other lands. Honey does not spread anything. Soap does not spread anything. I believe both of theses were confiscated and reason for fines? The fruits and meat I could see as being potantially dangerous. But come on...$100,000 for duck meat? Real criminals get off for less than that. I agree with SK in that they should just confiscate the items in question without needless or ineffective fines, which don't even appear to be doing much from what's been described. It only looks like they're commercializing the trend if they have a whole show devoted to busting people who don't know or don't care to listen to their rules :/

Send a letter to customs NZ and ask them about it, theres a pretty good reason for why they do it...


and besides, NZ is poor ^__^ :O

quote:Originally posted by LazehBoiOr call them all Australians like one of the royal family did.


Actually, it was Tony Blair's wife :P

New Zealand is seriously impeccable. No cockroaches or anything...
I can understand the seriousness of bringing fruits and so and so along from other countries, and I guess, either New Zealand should use more signs saying in assorted languages, the fines and penalties for bringing fruit and such, but as Geologist said, $100,000 for duck meat?
A firm warning and conviscation would be way better.

They do have signs in different languages and stress to all people that you MUST declare food stuffs but when nobody does, then they need to do something about it. Its too much of a risk to let someone with food get through and possibly ruin the environment and the only thing that makes this country desirable.

I thought that was the Haka...

quote:Originally posted by frogboyquote:Originally posted by LazehBoiOr call them all Australians like one of the royal family did.


Actually, it was Tony Blair's wife :P


Close enough.

quote:Originally posted by Milkman DanIts too much of a risk to let someone with food get through and possibly ruin the environment and the only thing that makes this country desirable.


Because we all know the people or culture have nothing to offer :/

Exactly!

Cough.haka.cough...

What about the freakin haka?!?!

quote:Originally posted by The GeologistBecause we all know the people or culture have nothing to offer :/


Exactly, they can't even pronounce "fish and chips" properly.

What about govna?

if u want to start a war with them, throw som fruit over the border

quote:Originally posted by frogboyquote:Originally posted by The GeologistBecause we all know the people or culture have nothing to offer :/


Exactly, they can't even pronounce "fish and chips" properly.

Thats a load of crap, only austalians [IMAGE] about the apparant mispronounciation (lol did i spell that right?) of fish and chips. AND if they think we say that then i can say that they say it as "feesh and cheeps", i mean, austalians couldnt even say my first name right when i used to live there.

quote:Originally posted by frogboy
Exactly, they can't even pronounce "fish and chips" properly.


They can't say Coca Cola, either.
KUKA KULA
FUSH UND CHUPS

It especially made me laugh, when I heard about the Turkish Prime Minister considered banning the Haka from the ANZAC day memorial, because it was too 'pornographic'.
Anyway, besides the customs incomes, New Zealand's biggest income is the haka XD

NZ's biggest income is tourism afaik, the haka does nothing and i have nfi where you got that idea from. as for the fish and chips and coca cola thing, thats a load of crap.

damn wheres gi.joe when you need him

DON'T YOU MEAN G.I JUE!?!

quote:Originally posted by Milkman DanIts too much of a risk to let someone with food get through and possibly ruin the environment and the only thing that makes this country desirable.


[where's the head banging smiley when you need it?] x100
1. its just goddamn FOOD, it wont ruin or make any enviromental damage and for sure it wont be the thing that will make NZ less desirable. yet idiotic border check that keeps taking alot of money from people, just for bringing along goddamned foods, will make people regret they ever thought about going.

2. FINE, suppose its logical not to enter with foods or whatever, money fines are still totally missplaced. you think its too much risky to let anyone enter with a fruit? take it away from him. but why do you have to take 200$ just cause he didnt read a section in the <whatever> paper he should read? its not like anyone even tries to hide it or anything, i'm sure that 100% of the people that got caught in the border for bringing a fruit, didnt know about the rule at all. fruits arent something you'd take a risk to get a 200$ fine for. bottom line - confiscate and stfu.

3. "Its too much of a risk to let someone with food" - why do you remind me of the canadian people in southpark movie?

quote:Originally posted by SuperKillwaaaaaaaa


It's their fault in the first place for not checking if the goods were allowed. And the food could have other organisms in it, such as bacteria or insects, which could affect the environment. The fine is there to deter people from doing it.

Well, it doesn't seem like the fine is deterring people, does it? Besides, there's so much other stuff that could have bacteria or insects on them, you'd have to take away all of the people's belongings and put them through a chemical shower before letting them in.

Not to mention the people themselves.

quote:[where's the head banging smiley when you need it?]
[IMAGE]

Rock on blue one.

[IMAGE]

quote:Originally posted by frogboy
It's their fault in the first place for not checking if the goods were allowed. And the food could have other organisms in it, such as bacteria or insects, which could affect the environment. The fine is there to deter people from doing it.


?
i hope you're joking.
well if they want to deter people from it by placing fines, it should be something reasonable like 30$ or so.. something symbolic.
not a price higher than i pay for speeding. (something that can actually kill, unlike fruits that can "HARM YOUR ENVIROMENT")

Actually, many countries have had HUGE problems with harmless looking plants that end up taking over and killing most of the wildlife in an area. For instance, there is a type of plant that was accidentally carried over to Brazil in a crate on a ship. Once it germinated, it grew uncontrollably as none of the animals on the island ate it and it secreted a poison that killed all plants around it. Now it's threatening the delicate balance of life as it is ruining the habitat for native species.

These things can be a very serious problem and should not be taken lightly. Yes, giving a fine for honey is a litte absurd, but standards have to be kept as we are the ones who are ultimately responsible for the land around us.

pssft :P

I can only agree with the people saying that the introduction of foreign species is a major problem for wildlife(top three with hunting and habitat loss). Australia got some sour grapes when introducing Bufo marinus. New Zeeland also have a rather delicate eco system due to its long time isolation from the rest of the world (including Australia). Not sure what problem honey is... Honey passed through the ass of bees, and, its high sugar content makes it pretty sterile for most bacteria. Maybe there is a slight chance of seeds and or pollen that could cause nasty hybrids or something.

Dont [IMAGE] NZ up, im moving there ;)

why are you moving to new zealand? :I

i was going to move to sweden and live in your closet :(

When my family went to New Zealand we asked some random guy where a fish and chip shop was. He was like "Eh?" My mum had to repeat it a few times and ended up having to say "Fush and chups" before he understood her. SO FUNNY.

n00bface you can travel with him and come live in my closet :O

quote:Originally posted by mariachiHoney passed through the ass of bees...


Lol, honey does not pass through the ass of bees, it comes from specialized glands on their abdomen.

lol @ Vijchtidoodah's smart talk

I like the fact that right now, and as I was writing that, my avatar was on the Truffle-Shuffle.

That would be wax you are thinking about?

I looked it up a lil closer, and, since i hadnt read that honey pass through the ass of bees, only heard it as a humorous comment from one of my professors, I tried to use the same line...
Anyways, there seems to be a few differing opinions about what way the honey comes out from the bee, but, it has been in the digestive system and out again, regardless it remains insect poop.



quote:Originally posted by Vijchtidoodahquote:Originally posted by mariachiHoney passed through the ass of bees...


Lol, honey does not pass through the ass of bees, it comes from specialized glands on their abdomen.

Mariachi, there aren't "differing opinions" about where honey comes from. It's not a mystery of some long-lost civilization that has since ceased to exist. Yes, it partially passes through the digestive system as anything that comes out of any gland must. However, unlike feces, it is secreted through those glands and never comes anywhere near the bee's anus. Therefore, it is not poop, and no self-respecting entomologist will ever tell you otherwise.

Is it true honey is the only food that doesn't go off?

Well, Captain Ben, whereas other foods tend to spontaneously explode quite frequently, honey has a relatively stable molecular structure so that, while it does occassionally "go off", it only does so very rarely and under specific conditions.

We need an evil smile emoticon...

Oh god... Smilies make me want to scream.
Okay, is honey the only food which doesn't go bad?

Well, technically the devil can only tempt those who have weak consciences and a life of piety should remedy that, but food is a completely different matter right from the start. All food is pure evil. Especially McDonald's french fries.

This game is sad :(
I'll try again:
Is honey the only food which doesn't expire? By expiring, I mean losing it's taste over a given amount of time, not only giving of a foul smell, but it can also be hazardous to your health.
This is a great way to spend my 'sick' day.

Again, animals and plants tend to be the only things that expire and shed their mortal coils. While once living things do tend to begin to smell foul (especially birds) and expiring can (sometimes) be harmful to your health, food products such as honey do not, and will never die because they do not have a soul*.

*Actually, some fundamentalist Honey Rights Groups (HRG) do claim that honey does have a soul, but since they can neither differentiate between the different members of the honey race nor effectively communicate with the honey (though they've tried), higher church authorities have discredited these claims.

You guys have too much time.

Sealed, jarred and properly stored honey can last several lifetimes, Ben, but it has to be kept in proper storage conditions the whole time.

Yes, I understand it needs to be taken care of, you can't just leave it in a hot, humid desert.

Yes you can.

Seriously though...New Zealand, wtf?

H
A
K
A

Well, since you are the only one so far I have come across that claims it comes from abdominal glands, there does seem to be some dispute, doesnt it?

(I have seen a plethora of accounts that wax is secreted from glands, as is royal jelly and worker jelly, but that really isnt the same as honey now is it... also, the jellies arent secreted in the abdominal region).

Nectar is ingested, stored into the "honey stomach" where it is later regurgitated into the cells of the honeycomb. (thats a rough description anyways, feel free to fill in about wing flapping etc.)

Anyways, I dont see the need for example melatonin to pass through a digestive system, and apart from my ass being quite sweaty after playing soldat two hours straight, I wouldnt say that the sweat secreted by my sweatglands passed through my intestines. No self- respecting physiologist would say otherwise.

Ahhh, a good discussion with a slight hint of sarcasm on both sides, perfect way to start a day ;)

(btw, seeing as u do know something about bees, u dont happen to have beehives, maybe an entomological interest in general?)

quote:Originally posted by VijchtidoodahMariachi, there aren't "differing opinions" about where honey comes from. It's not a mystery of some long-lost civilization that has since ceased to exist. Yes, it partially passes through the digestive system as anything that comes out of any gland must. However, unlike feces, it is secreted through those glands and never comes anywhere near the bee's anus. Therefore, it is not poop, and no self-respecting entomologist will ever tell you otherwise.

The average chocolate bar has 8 insects in it! Full of nutrients!

If I'm not mistaken, you're both correct in a way.

Mariachi is right in the sense that bees take substances (pollen, water) into a stomach/digestive organ, yet there is more than one stomach. Not just a stomach in the digestive sense, but sort of like a tool for transportation.

Vijch is also correct in that the nectar collected is secreted rather than pushed out through the anus. Secreted pollen is then stored, dried, etc until it becomes honey.

And here I thought those biology classes I had to take were all fluff :P

Cows have four stomachs! Sea cucumbers eat through their anuses!

Mariachi, anything your body produces must pass through your digestive system in order to be broken apart and/or transported. Melatonin, for example, must first come from food that was digested in your stomach and intestine (or just your small intestine if you're taking a manufactured pill) in order to be synthesized in your body. Likewise, the majority of sweat must be absorbed as water in your large intestine and then transported around your body and eventually reach your sudiferous glands. So, in a very recent timeframe, you ate the same stuff that's not only coming out of your anus, but that is also leaking around it.

As for how honey is produced, you may be correct. I know for a fact that wax is produced by glands in the abdominal region, but honey is probably a different story. It is probably more likely that it would just be harvested and dried, and then placed in the cells and dried some more, but I can't think of why it would pass through the abdominal glands. Nevertheless, it does not pass through the anus and is not poop.

I haven't studied this subject for quite some time and it sounds like you're currently studying it (or, at least, you have a teacher who knows about it), do you have any books that you could use for reference?

So... taking the subject off honey (hopefully), has anyone here read the Da Vinci Code?
Great book.

lol, why did I know that u would say that? :)

Before I posted my post I actually had a small note on that of course we could say that everything that we are has passed through our or our mothers digestive system at one point, but if that is what you were claiming it would be a pointless one, not really giving us any information. I see my mistake omitting it.
(Besides, depending on what parts of our body that we define as the digestive system, the claim may or may not be a correct one)

Still, I interpreted your claim that anything produced by a gland must pass through the digestive system, meaning any product of a gland must pass through the digestive system after its production. The way I see it your claim is therefore either wrong or pointless.

Whatever the case, I think there is no confusion about glands and their products anymore :)

I was obviously wrong trusting my professor literally, and I dare say you were wrong about the whole honey through abdominal glands thing. At the end of the day, its good fun learning stuff once and for all.
Ive looked through several of my physiology books (four) but havent found a definite answer. Im certain there are waxsecreting glands on the abdomen of honeybees and have found no evidence that there are honeyglands there. Eusocial insects like these bees and many (all?) ants have what is sometimes referred to as a social and a personal stomach. The social stomach comes first and this is where food is stored, treated with enzymes etc. Whatever is needed for personal nutrition is then leaked into the personal stomach and the rest is regurgitated (not produced by glands) back home. There is some talk of glands in the anterior region of bees possibly adding pheromones to the honey etc.
I will ask another professor as soon as I meet him.
I can easily see that it could be a simple honest mistake confusing honey with wax though.

And yes, im studying biology at the university. Funny thing about biology being such a vast subject is that regardless of how much u actually know u are constantly reminded about how much u really dont know :)

quote:Originally posted by El_MariachiStill, I interpreted your claim that anything produced by a gland must pass through the digestive system, meaning any product of a gland must pass through the digestive system after its production. The way I see it your claim is therefore either wrong or pointless.

Wrong, although some do pass through the digestive system, I was clearly talking about the fact that you first have to aquire what you create...I don't know any way to make that clearer other than to say that you most definitely do not spontaneously create the material needed to produce glandular secretions.

Beyond that, nobody is disputing what constitutes the digestive system. I think you may be confused.

Amazing how a topic about New Zealand's customs can suddenly turn into a 'heated' discussion about bees, how they produce honey and what people screte out of their abdominal regions. Very interesting, might I add.

*sigh*
I know that we cant create anything out of nothing, everyone does! Ergo, the statement was pointless, not wrong.

Seeing as we managed to find that honey isnt poop, and isnt secreted from abdominal glands, the questions has been answered. Other than that, its just been irrelevant burping of facts and interpretational difficulties. In other words, not very interesting, and even less productive.

nn

I actually found it very interesting and quite informative. Besides, don't you feel smarter having discussed something other than "Whats your fav wep combo" or "hoo want 2make halo mod wit me"?

Mariachi, I don't appreciate you telling me that my statements are poitless espeially when it was your own ignorance that I was correcting. Not only that, but very, very many people do believe that large objects can appear out of nowhere.

I enjoy these kinds of discussions, but not when the person I'm discussing with tells me three times in a row that my posts are irrelevant.

You, sir, are an ass.

Your post is irrelevant. Everyone knows the queen get all of the bees to vomit into a bucket, then the bucket is sent to EA Games where the advertising manager uses his sales fairy to turn the molecules into honey. The honey is then compacted into a Harry Potter game and sent back for collection.