Well I've been playing Starcraft in a polish server for a long time.
I've gotten used to seeing the "Nazi Defence" map, I even entered it once to see what's the deal, when the game starts its says "Kill all the jews", the jews ofcourse being the enemie you have to defend against.

Then right in the National memorial day for the Holocuast I came into a forum in some site, and noticed a nice area called "Serious Debates"
Then I saw a topic called "The Holocuast" so I went in. and this is what I saw:
http://forums.torrentspy.com/showthread.php?t=16109

I tried answering and replying to it, but after 3 posts from my side I realized its useless you can't really debate a subject when one side is basing ideas over ridiculus statments and claims that can and have been easly proven false.

I promised myself I won't enter that forum again, but I just did for the first time to bring you that link.

20 minutes ago I entered a german server, since I have good ping in german servers and it was quite full.
I noticed there's a hacker (speed hacker) not a rare thing in public these days.
Problem was (for me) his nick was "Jews Killer", So I wrote "not only your nick is offensive but you also hack", he didn't even reply.
But there was another guy who replyed "jew cock sucker".

I guess there isn't much of a reason for me to post it, this isn't a new subject, and for real, a genocide cannot be seriously dedated for right or wrong.

So you might say I just wanted to post it to reliefe some of the bad feeling those 3 incounters had brought me.

:(

You should try reading the news.

This reaction in the online community is a direct reflection of what's really going on in the world today. France has been under the spotlight for some time now as the number of anti-semetic crimes has been on the rise -- something like a 45% increase in only one year. It's gotten so bad around parts of Europe that many Jews are moving away.

And you aren't the only recipient of those kinds of remarks. People who can't even tell what my religion is - jewish or not - have condescendingly ridiculed me by calling me a Jew. In fact, several popular people on these very forums who post frequently have done just that.

The fact is that the world is getting to be more hostile. Jews have been the natural scapegoat for everyone else's anger and hatred for thousands of years. They aren't the only ones who are the recipients of this kind of misjudgement, but they are, and have been, the majority of the victims since the dawn of the religion.

I don't expect you to read the whole thread I gave link to.
But eventualy in my last post I said just 1 last thing who was actualy relevent and actualy had a point, unlike the former debate on this undebatable subject.
Those were my last words for them, and I decided those will be my last word to each and every anti semi person I will ever meet.

"Hello, my name is Ofer, I'm jewish and I've been living all my life in Israel which is a jewish based country, I served in the Israeli army for 3 years which is one of the quality armies in the world, and there is nothing you (or any of your kind) can do about it!"

Whenever I say that, I think of all the past victims of these ridiculus hate, who wished and dreamed of a day when a jewish person can say those words.

I actualy don't watch the news, on some occasions I do, but mostly not.
There's nothing good on there any how.
I didn't know about these actualy, I find it surprising.
I'm not worried though, unlike past times they have a place to come to where they will be accepted and welcomed and will gain full protection.

And BTW, the use of the word "jew" as an adjactive was imbraced by my own fellow israelians here in Soldat, I find it disturbing. I used it a couple of times myself, but now I realize its gotten way too far.
A french guy named Ouchek keeps refering to me as a jew, I'm sure he means no harm by it.
But its getting to be a bad habbit.
I really wish ppl will stop saying "jew" every second.
Its bringing me bad assosiations to the movie Shindler's List.
When that girl kept yelling "Goodbye jews, goodbye jews"

Racism is just a stupid way of people attempting to feel superior.

Just take in stride. "That's right, I'm a jew. I'm also not a racist like you."

That won't help much, they don't see racism as a bad thing, they see it as a necessity.
Though it sounda good and rimes well :)

Im catholic but if I knew those racist sons of [IMAGE] out of him

Make that another forum member that's a racist...at least we kicked him from the game so we didn't have to put up with him.

Hmm, I have a feeling that all of this anti-semitic wave is happening in Europe because there's much disillusion with Israel's occupation/existence. It is recent because the recent intefada hasn't died out yet, and there's still war going on in the middle east. People will voice their opinions, verbally and physically, for good or for bad, weather we like it or not. I think this is perfectly predictable. I'm also content that theres at least one place in the world where Jews might have their social/racist ideal peace of mind, and that is Israel. Rough example: You won't see an "Aryan Association" or any such organizations in Israel, or any other anti-semitic sentiments of the like.

I agree with you, OK, there's no point arguing about racial ideals - none are/were proven right or wrong to date, so it's an illegitimate arguement from the get-go.

I have had this happen to me, in Soldat or other games. I am Jewish, but imagine what would happen if I had said my other side of ethnicity, Chinese. But, I killed that S.O.B. anyway. Also, one of my friends in my old town(see below), who was black, played a game on the internet. He picks an icon who is also black, and he plays against a white supremacist, who is dishing out racist jokes. We killed him, anyway. [IMAGE]ing unbelievable.

My own school is so [IMAGE]ing ignorant, that these people can dish out racist jokes like bacon in a mining camp(crappy, I know). In my school/town, there are roughly 4 African-Americans in the school, I'm guessing roughly 25 or so in my town, 2 Latin-Americans in the school, I'm guessing 20 in the town. There are 820 students. My old town had literally 50 to 100 times more diversity than this piece of crap "utopian" suburb. They can make jokes about both of my ethnicities, but when I try to make a stand, they run away. It's full of republicans, who know nothing about the issues.

Enough about my hatred of my town, it has a great school district, and I'll live through the high-school years. Of course Jews are the scapegoat. As if nothing has changed since Sumeria(where Abraham originally lived). But, again, what do you expect? Most of the issues in the world today deal with Southwest Asia(I prefer not to say Middle East. It's just a geography thing).

To close this, [IMAGE] George Bush and anyone else who supports the Iraq War. Can you believe people in my town try to support the war? It's easy to shut them up on that, but it took me a while to convince 1 kid to not like this new, crappy, social security plan. I don't want risks, give me guaranteed money, but this is a different story, for another topic.

Wow. That was my $0.02. I'm Lastpatriot.

I live in the south(Florida) and there are a lot more black people down here than in the north.
And northerners seem to be not near as nice as southerners, so whenever they see a black person they just like go into shock and stare at them, i've seen it happen in Michigan.
But southerners are used to them 'cause we see plenty of them every day, so there's really no racist problems down here.

And my school is apperantly very good, 'cause there's a whole bunch of korean, chinese, indonesian and all kinds of people who come here just for the school, and there's no racism against them either.

The south is friendly.
=D

http://www.wannaskate.com/soldat/pix.htm
ermm....

Mein kampf was (rather disgistingly) a very interesting read. It shows that no one is pure evil/all bad. Many of Hitlers governement and economical reforms helped bring a country that had suffered (albeit unfairly) due to the blame pushed onto them for the first world war, he helped bring that country back up to their feet and actually begin to progress toward a stable and modernized society. Then, he killed the jews. Things kinds went downhill from there...

quote:Originally posted by lastpatriot
[IMAGE] George Bush and anyone else who supports the Iraq War. Can you believe people in my town try to support the war? It's easy to shut them up on that, but it took me a while to convince 1 kid to not like this new, crappy, social security plan. I don't want risks, give me guaranteed money, but this is a different story, for another topic.

I have 2 Suv's, George Bush rocks, Iraq War is needed, I've got nothing against Saudi Arabia unlike you and ease off on saying [IMAGE]

Ok, one question - why do you even care?
so a pathetic kid tries to act tough on the net and dish out racist insults. why do you even let it get to you? its probably a zit faced fat kid with social problems taking his anger out anyway.

Because racism is something that you should definitely care about. It's people who didn't care enough in the first place that let the massacres in Rwanda, Sudan, Australia, America, Iraq, Turkey, France, Germany, Croatia, Russia, Cambodia, Indonesia, Japan, Vietnam, India, and many other places happen.

In case you haven't noticed, racism leads to genocide. And there's plenty of both that has occured because people didn't care enough, and that is currently happening because people don't care enough. Chances are that you don't even know about half of the genocides that are happening in the world around you. Why? Because people don't care.

So don't say, "Oh, it's just some zit-faced kid." If he learns that he can get away with that kind of bull[IMAGE], what's to stop him from beating up a Jew when he's older. What's to stop him from ignoring the genocides that are happening around him just because he doesn't care, and in the end, becoming one of those that don't do anying only to become just the same as those committing the crimes?

Why do we need the Iraq war? I hope you're being sarcastic.

"Just cause". If the Bush administration cared so much about the world, he would have sent more money, troops if necessary, to help Rwanda and/or Liberia. Even a fraction of the 151 billion dollars sent to Iraq could have helped these 2 nations. But it didn't happen. Why? They don't have natural resources(Rwanda has...fertile soil, and Liberia has diamonds, not as much as Mesopotamia has oil).

P.S. I have nothing against people of Saudi Arabian descent. What I don't like is shipping off money which could be used elsewhere to a select few.

Lastpatriot, there are plenty of resources in those countries that could have easily been exploited. There are other major reasons we never got involved (and it began with the Clinton administration, not Bush, and Powell's genocide report is another matter).

First, those countries are in Africa. That may sound racist or not, but it really comes down to the fact that, after Europe moved out of Africa and left it in disarray, nobody has wanted anything to do with it.

Second, as far as Rwanda is concerned, they knew that we were deathly afraid of another Somalian incident and used that knowledge to scare us away. It was quite brilliant, in fact, how they murdered six Dutch soldiers to not only get the Dutch to pull out - the largest military contributor to the UN forces in Rwanda - but also the US, and, as a result, there weren't enough troops to hold the massacre at bay so we all left it alone.

Third, public support. The people didn't want to do anything, they didn't want to know about it, and they just wanted to live in peace. The government did a good job of reflecting these sentiments by sidestepping the whole genocide issue by saying that "acts of genocide" were occuring and not genocide itself so that, according to the Genocide Convention, because there was no genocide we didn't have to commit any troops.

Fourth, we knew nothing about these countries. It's not a good tactic to try to begin a war in which your enemy has an extreme advantage (re Vietnam and Somalia). So, we paratrooped a few people in to evacuate all Europeans and then left.

Yes, it was a result of us not caring enough in the beginning to do the research before anything started, but it wasn't Bush's fault. He could never have begun a war a decade after the killings began while we still don't want anything to do with those countries. On the other hand, it's very easy to start a war with a bunch of Middle Eastern countries after pushing the country into a frenzy after we were attacked by Middle Eastern people.

**Keep in mind that I'm not endorsing the wars or Bush or saying anything against them.

hey man, just ignore those threads and those guys. it makes no sense discussing with them because, like you said, they will just dig out totally senseless stuff and call it an argument.

teh perfect chance to post teh link!
www.savedarfur.org

vijcht, obviously i wasnt talking about racism itself. i wasnt saying it should be ignored, and that nobody should care about it.
i was pretty much talking about gaming racism, eg. - someone acts like a nazi in a server.
wasnt talking about anything big.

as far as i'm concerned to the idiots that nazi around in game servers on the internet, they dont bother me the slightest. and even if they did, how am i supposed to stop them from acting this way? they arent going to listen to anything you say if its against racism.

"In case you haven't noticed, racism leads to genocide"
yea, tell me about it.

what's gonna stop that zit faced kid from beating up a jew? lol, i dont know what about you but fat zit faced internet racists are less scary than teddy bears.
this is why the internet pretty much have the freedom of speaking your opinion. dont get me wrong, i dont justify the racists, i'm just saying they shouldnt even be taken care of cause they change absolutley nothing. and that's why reallife nazis are being hunted.

quote:Originally posted by Alamohey man, just ignore those threads and those guys. it makes no sense discussing with them because, like you said, they will just dig out totally senseless stuff and call it an argument.

agreed.

First of all, I am against any kind of racism, and I find it unbelievably stupid how some ppl tend to perform their true mentality on the anonymous net. I dont care is someone is a jew or not, cause I simply dont care about religion. Its the character that makes a person, not their belief.

But, there is the other side of the medal too. Like Ok posted this link |http://www.wannaskate.com/soldat/pix.htm| which imo shows, that especially (but not only) israelians tend to overuse the word "nazi". That might not seem to be a big problem in many european countries, but calling a German, or in this case Austrian a nazi for _no apparent reason_ is not a proof of intelligence imo.

We (Team Austria) were talking on Teamspeak, coming to the opinion, that its going to be a laggy match, because the pings of team israel were ranging from 80-166. Then Ir0n said "JEW" without any context (wth? Shall I be insulted if he calls me a catholic?), but Team .il was immediately reacting rather hostile, which ended in some kind of little flamewar between Ir0n and ReDev1l. Not that this is something I usually care about a lot, and I admit that Ir0n wasnt very friendly too, but - I somehow expected that - it didn't take very long and ReDev1l started off overusing the n-word. Apparently you guys should know, that in Germany and Austria "nazi" is a _serious insult_. And it's not only you overusing that word.
Also official representatives of the jews act like that. Like the head of the "central council of the jews" in Austria does it. Whenever there is any kind criticism against the jewish community, even if it is constructive and has a good reason, he calls it antisemitic. Sorry to say, but acting that oversensitivity doesnt make em more popular.

Of course all that does not excuse any kind of racism against jews or other people. But calling an Austrian or German a nazi for no real reason is some kind of racism too, as you "put them into one drawer" with people who killed millions of jews ~60 years ago and people who still support what happened in the times of WW2. Think about that please, its not always the other's fault ;)

What i dont understand is why they say that nazis killed 6 million jews, i dont think there was that many at that time..

Brace yourself, m00`.

huh.. why?

Ghaa...m00', come on. I can't believe you just said that, but I'll give you a chance. Why don't you think that there were that many Jews at the time?

i dont know i read an article and i've been convinced, and i dont really think they would've had the technology to slaughter 6 million jews at that period of time using gas chambers or any other kind of torturing device

EDIT:

And how would they know that there was 6 million i dont understand, it even says in article that they even claimed that 9 million had died in a newspaper. Doesnt anyone think that this is just a run for some money from germany or who ever is giving them money for all what happened.

What article was this and how could the most efficient army of the 20th century have not had the technology to kill so many when the only problem they had was that bullets were "too expensive"?

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/holohoax.htm
this article just too convincing i dont know which side to believe :P

Not another organization to bring down the general reputation of Christians...

Lol, what a sham. The fact that there research was not scientifically carried out or even backed by any evidence in any way aside, they contradict themselves in a many places: most notable is how they blatantly accuse Anne Frank's Diary of being a hoax and then turn around and use it as written evidence that the holocaust never existed (through faulty reasoning by the way -- that Auschwitz was too small). They also state that most Jews died of disease and starvation, and then say that the Holocaust was a lie because ALL of the Jews couldn't fit into the gas chambers (in reality, only about 2 million Jews died in the gas chambers). Not only that, but they never state either what their numbers were or where they got them from so that we can do the arithmetic ourselves to cross-check.

All this is only in the first few paragraphs!

"With all this money at stake for Israel, it is easy to comprehend why this Holocaust hoax is so secretly guarded. The Jewish name for Holocaust is "Shoah." In Zionist circles, it is known as "Shoah Business." If nothing else, this unbelievable coverup demonstrates the irrepressible Zionist influence and control of our country."

Ah, the true nature of the article arises...

Edit: Shall I continue to point out inconsistencies or is this enough to get you to reread the article with a little more of a level head?

Further reading: Chemistry is not the Science, [url="http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/auschwitz/auschwitz-faq-06.html">Zyklon B information.

quote:Originally posted by grand_diablo[...] |http://www.wannaskate.com/soldat/pix.htm|[...]


He says 'BTW, I'm Austrian' on the bottom of the page. We all know, Hitler was Austrian ;)

Omfg, you know what, I also saw alot of movies, actualy I saw alot of documantries.
I can see new ones made every year, since we here in Israel expirience the Holocuast memories each year all over again. for 1 and half days.
I wouldn't call it brainwashed because there aren't talks about how should we hate or how should we act towords someone, there are only talks of what happened and how important is to remember it and thank god we have our own country now to make sure it won't happen again.

But the most important source of information I have is my grandma who saw in their own eyes a chimney, and from that chimney came a black smoke, and it kept coming out.
simultaneously groups of ppl, or to be exact jews, were lead in that direction of that "factory" and never came back.
Later on she realized that black smoke was due to burning human bodies.
That happened in warsaw, the most infamous consintration camp of all.

You want more proof? there are alot of living old ppl who had the worst job in the world, taking the bodies from the gas chambers into those crematoriums.
You want more? just go into the local library , you want more?! go into the net! you want more? watch one of the hundered of movies on the holocuast.
There is a new now one, called "I Am David" go watch it.
Ignorance and Innocense were the main reasons for the Holocuast so I'm sorry if I'm a bit hostile atm.

Diablo, I absolutly agree, calling someone a nazi is too harsh. Being a nazi is much more then just hating jews (yes I know it wasn't the case) I also asked the IL team to stop refering themsels as "jews" and joke about how being a jew is a bad thing.
I will also ask them to stop calling others nazis for every little thing.
You have to understand that Israelis can be very sensetive about that subject. do try to say "Israelis" and not jews... after all, I don't call you by your religion when I refer to your location do I?
Its not that being a jew is bad thing its just a sensetive subject and a sensetive word.

I do appologize in the name of the IL team. atm you might say the IL team is just a bunch of kids can play very well but blures out whatever they want.

Lol, you can tell that OK is upset when he becomes unintelligible.

m00 in all of your stupid anti israeli posts i've never encounter such an idiotic one.
congratulate yourself, you're a dumbass now.

I consider "Idiot" as a much harsher situation then a "dumbass".
You call someone a dumbass for touching some girl's ass in a party.
Not for denying a massacr of 6 million human beings just because of an "Article"..
Sheesh...

BTW :
(20:34:48) (@Blinches) I would visit there
(20:35:04) (@Blinches) But I don't like visiting places where I can commit suicide by screaming "I'm jewish" :S
(20:38:05) (+Timmy|TgW|oO) oO
(20:38:12) (+Timmy|TgW|oO) no
(20:38:17) (+Timmy|TgW|oO) you wouldnt get killed here
(20:38:29) (+Timmy|TgW|oO) if you dont come to a nazi party
(20:38:30) (+Timmy|TgW|oO) :)
(20:39:16) (@Blinches) There are nazi parties over there?
(20:39:23) (+Timmy|TgW|oO) mmm illegal but yes
(20:39:25) (+Timmy|TgW|oO) sometimes
(20:39:42) (@Blinches) You know my dream is to take an Israeli millitary platune of our spacial forces
(20:39:56) (@Blinches) Crash into one of those parties and yell, "THE JEWS ARE HERE!!!!!"

people are to damn serious these days...
theres only one way to deal with these things...
eat some pie and shut up








people on the internet have no consiquences to what they say...

quote:Originally posted by Ok
Diablo, I absolutly agree, calling someone a nazi is too harsh. Being a nazi is much more then just hating jews (yes I know it wasn't the case) I also asked the IL team to stop refering themsels as "jews" and joke about how being a jew is a bad thing.
I will also ask them to stop calling others nazis for every little thing.
You have to understand that Israelis can be very sensetive about that subject. do try to say "Israelis" and not jews... after all, I don't call you by your religion when I refer to your location do I?
Its not that being a jew is bad thing its just a sensetive subject and a sensetive word.

I do appologize in the name of the IL team. atm you might say the IL team is just a bunch of kids can play very well but blures out whatever they want.


Heh, accepted. I dun think that "JEWS!" was meant in a bad manner, there were those "laggy jew" jokes going around, especially in gathers, and actually jewish players came up with calling it "jew power" when they played good. And as I said, it refered to our TS talk cause we expected a laggy match ^^
Dun take it too serious as long as we dont connect really hostile attributes with "jew", I wouldnt feel insulted by "CATHOLIC" eventhough im not religious at all.

Whatever, I guess our next match wont be interrupted by such an incident, as we all learned from that :]

quote:Originally posted by m00`i dont know i read an article and i've been convinced, and i dont really think they would've had the technology to slaughter 6 million jews at that period of time using gas chambers or any other kind of torturing device

EDIT:

And how would they know that there was 6 million i dont understand, it even says in article that they even claimed that 9 million had died in a newspaper. Doesnt anyone think that this is just a run for some money from germany or who ever is giving them money for all what happened.


You scare the [IMAGE] out of me m00 :|

What kind of technology do you think they needed? They would send them into the "showers" and they would drop Zyklon-B on them, which is Hydrocyanic acid i think? They would dump these little pellets on them and they would turn to gas and suffocate them all fast and efficiently then they would just have to dump the bodies and keep repeating the process. Go read Yijch's post and then look up some other articles on your own to get the facts straight. The holocaust did happen and you havn't posted anything that shows legitimate proof

-=Edit
Make m00' a muppet for being so ignorant

quote:Originally posted by SuperKillm00 in all of your stupid anti israeli posts i've never encounter such an idiotic one.
congratulate yourself, you're a dumbass now.


god i have nothing agaisnt israel and im not rascist seriously wtf is wrong with you i make a post about my opinion and then i get flamed, as Ok said everyone dis agreed with him onthat forum topic he posted and hes complaining about that, and you guys are doing the exact same thing here give me a break, some people have opinions you know, everyime you get called a jew you think somones being rascist. Just to let you know im not rascist and i have nothing against jewish people, but im sick of you whining and making topics about this kind of stuff, what about palestine i dont see any palestinians in this forum whining about what u guys are doing to them, why? oh wait i know why ITS BECAUSE 90% of them DONT HAVE THE INTERNET. While you guys just make new topcis all the time about this kind of stuff, your being just as bad was the germans were in ww2.



edit: thank you Ok for answering my questions..

Whoa m00`, settle down. Nobody flamed you at all, we were all just so suprised at your ignorance.

But now I'm really going to have to flame you for your brash response...

First of all, your opinion was incredibly biased and based on false evidence from just one source. I think that gives us every right to be suprised that you took it as truth and went on about how the Holocaust did not happen. But it doesn't really matter anyway, because we're just throwing the facts back at you.

As for the Palestinian comment, that's only half true. Palestinians aren't posting here (or many other places, I've noticed) because they don't get ridiculed for their religion nearly as much as the Jews. It isn't because they don't have access to the internet. Yes, only around six or seven percent actually have computers and very few have internet in their homes because the cost is almost as much as their paycheck, but they have seen an incredible growth in internet cafes that are all packed almost all day long (source).

quote:Originally posted by m00`While you guys just make new topcis all the time about this kind of stuff, your being just as bad was the germans were in ww2.


Ah yes. You're absolutely right, m00`. I have to agree with you that causing the death toll of 50 million people is exactly the same as writing on a forum.

Well, this might not be completely off-topic, as it does relate to anti-semitism and hypocrisy: I was checking around some racist movements' sites today for a school project research and stumbled accross the aryan nations site: www.aryan-nations.org. If you notice, on the heading, it says something in Arabic, which translates into: "In the name of God, the merciful." This is an opening for the daily Muslim prayer, for those of you that don't know, and I simply started giggling erratically when I saw this. Assuming that the Aryan Nations organization is taking up Hitler's theory that all Jews are semites and that all semites are genetically inferior, they are contradicting themselves by putting a slogan of a religion that is stereotyped to be against the general being of all Jews, created by, *drumroll* yet another semitic people, the Arabs, to show their contempt for semites. Well done, Aryan Nations, you just proved that you make absolutely no sense with your own front page. Woo, I hope this cools some of you down, heh :P

Racist theories are like most religions, they contradict themselves when taken too far. I hope you learned your lesson, kids. And Vicht, it's not the internet that I'm afraid of. I mean, it's not like I was never called a 'piece of [IMAGE] sand nigger' by some angry white kid at school. I got used to it. 'Jew', however, is more common on the internet because it is taken more lightly, and therefore is concieved by many not-so-zealous people to be a trivial thing to say, nothing more than a bit of humor. I, however, don't support that sentiment and am against all barriers (mental) between humans, but then again I'm just myself.

quote:

quote:Originally posted by m00`While you guys just make new topcis all the time about this kind of stuff, your being just as bad was the germans were in ww2.


Ah yes. You're absolutely right, m00`. I have to agree with you that causing the death toll of 50 million people is exactly the same as writing on a forum. And threatening the reporters as well, i saw this 1-2 months ago. I dont think jewish people have the right to jump into palestine and settle in and leave palestinians a block of desert to live in and then come over and threaten and push them around.



dude wtf im talking about how israel is treating palestine not about posting in the forum, they take some land, settle in and then claim its theirs.

there was a show on tv were they showed jewish people actually threatening palestinians with guns and driving them of from their homes.

I find it unfair that israelian troops jump into palestine, claim some land, then get some people to settle in and leave a few palestinian families a block of desert and then charge into their homes and threaten them and tell them to get the [IMAGE] out, the jewish people even threatened the reporter that was there.

m00, just think.

quote:Originally posted by m00`What i dont understand is why they say that nazis killed 6 million jews, i dont think there was that many at that time..


lets ignore every fact of the truth for just a minute here; lets suppose you're right. lets suppose israel drives off palestinians from their homes for no reason at all.
how in the world does that connect to the quote i inserted above?
saying something like "the nazis didnt kill 6 million jews, there werent even that many jews then!" is pretty much like saying "i'm a retarded 10 year old that wanna shove my nose in people's buisness and try to make it look like i know something in history".

now lets bring back all the fact from the truth and lets talk seriously.
like i've said a million times to you m00, we dont charge their house for no reason. there is a reason for everything.
i wonder what will your conclusions be after you see some documentive films about the recent war on iraq. will you justify them just cause its officialy a war?
they arent being any "nicer" or more "friendly" than the israeli soldiers to the palestinians, but nobody should complain about that. (note i'm not talking about what they did to the prisoners)
both the american soldiers and the israeli soldiers have got reasons not to act like a peace patrol from switzerland.

so what if they dont have internet? its our fault? rofl, dont make me laugh.
we already supply them with PLENTY of stuff that israeli citizens dont get, so get your facts straight before opening your 13 year old mouth.

c'mon m00 this is not the first time we have this conversation. you always end up looking like an idiot. dont you ever learn?

You're not much better than him, SuperKill.

explain yourself then.

SK, palestinian homes get stormed into by israelian soldiers nearly every day, and then they claim they are terrorists the only terrorists in this situtation would be the israelian soldiers, im sick of the word 'terrorist' why are people terrorists for trying to drive israelian soldiers out of their land? If you dont want any violence then gtfo out of their land and stop settling in as if its your home.

And SK when im talking about people from settlements threatening palestinians im talking about ISRAELIAN CIVILIANS IN THE SETTLEMENTS, what is their reason to threaten them?

And i also dont like how israelians show of their army 'omgz we in one of the strongest armies in the world we kickz all j0r asses' imo the only reason you have one of the strongest armies is because of al lthe money america pays you. I also recently heard on the news that america/israel wanted hamas or what ever that organisation is to disarm? whats up with that, just to make it easier for israel to kill all the palestinians? plz answer my questions

edit: how do you supply palestinians with more things than israelian civilians get? you take over their land and give israelian civilians houses and destroy palestinian houses, all you supply palestinians with is hatred and bullets in the face.

you think hamas defends the palestinians?
HAHA.
if there was a single religous jew in a crowd of 20 palestinians, the hamas would send a terrorist bomber to the middle of the crowd.

anyway.. again, you keep saying everything israel does wrong but you never know the reason for these actions.
saying "gtfo out of their land" is not an excuse. its not their land bible-wise and politicly-wise.
if my memory's right, the UN has voted 'yes' 57 years ago on an independent jewish israeli country.
mind backing up what you call "their land?"
you cant, which ruins your first statement of "why are you calling them terrorists".
if you're talking about israeli civilians that threat palestinians i cant state my opinion on them. the people you call "sattlers" are extremely religous people, and i dont think most of them are sane in the brain.
and if you havn't noticed, there is a huge fight between israel's government and the sattlers. they are being evicted from the territory they are in, so stop whining about that. they dont reflect israel at all.

with that being said, your statement over us being the bad guys and stealing their land is over.

now for the second part, the even funnier one. BOOHOO, cry me a river cause you're jealous of our army.
sure america pays us, but what do they pay us? you think they can afford handling their army and ours? maybe they can, but they dont.
they dont fund our army, we're pretty independant on that.
by the way, we never say or do anything to prove something like "omgz we're like teh pwnage army". but if that's the way you see our army then i wont complain ;d

for the last part - blah blah f*cking blah, get your facts <yawn> before... <yawn> speaking <falls asleep>.
you're getting boring.
-fuel
-electricity
-water
-no household taxes
things that the government would never let an israeli citizen get away with. so stop your whining before you know something.
yea we ruin terrorist's houses. cry me a river.

and why dont you answer about the nazi thing?

now this is israel how you see it:

*priminister wakes up*
uber-evil general: sir, the palestinians are expanding. something must be done.
priminister: WHAT?! call in the special force. DESTROY THEIR HOUSES!11!
*army destroys houses*

two words - wake up.

quote:Originally posted by SuperKill
yea we ruin terrorist's houses. cry me a river.


civilians..

you can do better than that.
reply to what i said about your quote about the nazis?
reply to anything i said above?

btw, families of the terrorist are civilians aswell, on the CNN they dont add that fact for some reason ;>

i have nothing else to say to you, you know what your doing is wrong

great comeback.
quote:c'mon m00 this is not the first time we have this conversation. you always end up looking like an idiot. dont you ever learn?

Everyday on the internet, I learn more and more how shockingly ignorant people are of real history. Of course no one knows everthing, but not understanding the holocast is like saying America didn't lose the Vietnam war because they had better equipment.

I perfectly understand you m00' for once I didn't know certain things that people think are obvious. Everyone learns something new each day.

The people who have replied before me saying that you are dumb and such are saying so because they were suprised to hear someone say the opposite of what most people know. Don't take it too hard, they aren't flaming you or anything. They were just overwhelmed(and a bit angry, because some racists say that on purpose).

**************************************************************

As to the Palestine/Israel conflict, I see no one is pointing out the core of it's problem. Now don't flame me on this, i'm just pointing out the facts. I will tell it in the most simple fashion.

The problem started in World War 2. War was raging and England was ruins by the Nazi(I didn't say Germen for a reason). They needed help in places which they were unwilling to shed any more blood for.

So they made an agreement with various rich Jewish business men saying the British would give land(current Israel) if they gave some funds. The men did so with eager dreams.

Then after that, the British made an agreement with Palestine forces stating they would give land(known today as Israel) if they lent them some of their forces until the end of the war. They did so with high hopes.

The war ended well but yet two nationalities faced a new problem. Both claimed that an agreement was made with the British which made the land their land. Nothing could be agreed on and so each started to use brutal force. This started a new war, which has not ended to this day. People take sides on either nation and dispise the other, but they seem to forget something. Where's the British? Where is their responsiblity?

quote:Originally posted by Green Barret
I perfectly understand you m00' for once I didn't know certain things that people think are obvious. Everyone learns something new each day.

The people who have replied before me saying that you are dumb and such are saying so because they were suprised to hear someone say the opposite of what most people know. Don't take it too hard, they aren't flaming you or something. They were just overwhelmed(and a bit angry, because some arses say that on purpose).


are you saying what m00 said about the 6 milion jews is correct, and everyone else here is just dumb and thought otherwise?
or better yet - are you saying 6 milion jews werent killed in the haulocost?
or am i mistaken and you meant something else?

btw, the british responsibillity took place in the UN voting.

geez SK, you think everything is a comeback, i wanna finish the argument and you want to continue it was never meant to piss you of or intended to continue the argument

What most of you don't understand is that extreme sources are almost always biased, such as the jewish and nazi propaganda. Saying either that 6 million jews were killed in concentration camps, or that almost none was (and that they just died because of the war, illnesses, and so on) is wrong. There are many lies in the documentaries about the holocaust, but to some extent, they're true. For instance, no jew was ever turned into soap - the incriminated soaps (found in the jews' tombs or in the camps) were analyzed and it was discovered that they contained no human greases at all. This fact can't be denied (do a research if you don't believe me, it's not secret information), yet it is not widely known. Why? Because it is part of the jewish propaganda that is currently stronger than other way of thought. On the other side, the defenders of the nazist part exagerate when they talk about this topic, so that their propaganda will look utterly stupid, if it is ever heard, since pretty much anyone objecting (and NOT denying) facts (as they are in current history) that regard the holocaust gets shot down with the accuse of anti-semitism.

quote:Originally posted by Meandor...since pretty much anyone objecting facts that regard the holocaust gets shot down with the accuse of anti-semitism.


I don't think anyone accused him of being anti-semetic.

quote:Originally posted by m00`I find it unfair that israelian troops jump into palestine, claim some land, then get some people to settle in and leave a few palestinian families a block of desert

Isreilis have the exact same block of desert, they've just cultivated it so wonderfully over the past few years that it can support an entire nation.

quote:Originally posted by Vijchtidoodahquote:Originally posted by Meandor...since pretty much anyone objecting facts that regard the holocaust gets shot down with the accuse of anti-semitism.


I don't think anyone accused him of being anti-semetic.



Yeah, but it often happens. I was talking in general.

quote:Originally posted by SuperKillgreat comeback.
c'mon m00 this is not the first time we have this conversation. you always end up looking like an idiot. dont you ever learn?



Its true :|
m00 you really seem to read articles from incredibly biased sources and then judge your entire opinion on them :| You need to view both sides of the story before you should create an opinion on it.

quote:Originally posted by m00`geez SK, you think everything is a comeback, i wanna finish the argument and you want to continue it was never meant to piss you of or intended to continue the argument

The reason why he wants to continue it is because you have no idea what your talking about, and you have managed to piss many people off with this arguement

Fair enough, bro'... i don't really know what it feels like to be wiped out, but i'm sure it's rough...! ;)

You know, there is a simple reason.
Nobody ever asks themselfs "Why would they do that?"
I'm sure you are all aware to the fact that Israel is not a nation of killers.
Its one of the most unracist place on earth, for the simpel fact, it was made in order ot block out racism.
In all 23 years of my life I did not encounter any racism towords Black ppl for example or actualy any other ppl just for their religion.
Its true, sometimes arrabs will get treated a bit badly for them being arrabs.
But that can be understandable after you get used to being scared of suicide bombers.
So you're a bit carefull, plus even the Israeli arrabs have a bit of hostile mentality. I can say the same to the whole eastern mentality.. even jews from Iraq and Marroco have it. Its a mentality so you get used to seeing someone that way.
But it doesnt bother me, I just know that from advance, for example my Math teacher is an arrab.
He's one of the smartest ppl I know, I love listening to him talking about how math was invented and how you can apply it on life itself :) (No I'm not a math freak).
His accent or religion does not bother me at all! though I do feel that some insticts in me tried to judge him when I first saw him.

But I have no problem with that, I have friends on the border who are fighting not only the terrorirst but also some ladies , jewish ladies that are there to "bother" the soldiers, and they comment and report every bad thing they see, even if its neccesery.
They really make it alot harder on the soldiers, its very hard controling an angry mob while dealing with some ladies telling you to be nice to them.

So we fight among ourselfs on that subject, so we make sure we stay reasonable. we also have rules. soldier who are cought use accesive force, are judged and go to jail for it.

Also you have to ask yourself, why on earth would Israel want to let some settlers live in some dangoers place and then make a platune of needed soldiers to gurad them!
Does it make sense to you?! 30 soldiers, guarding 3-4 familis.
Trust me niether the govrement nor the soldier like it.

Do you think we enjoy hearing about a new soldier who died each day? each of them has families, we don't like it. If you send soldiers into a hot zone, its only because you need it.
And no home is safe inside "Palastine", often you'll find a pregnant woman sitting on a coach that eventualy turns out to be a hiding place for a bazzoka.
So how can you lead this kinda of war? without being hostile and carefull?

I said more then once, the terrorist (The hamas for examle) are not helping their ppl, they have no problem killing palastinians for the "Cause". and they make sure that any will to make peace with Israel is gone very quickly by making the war wrose.

m00`, I have this feeling that you don't even believe what you say. Fact is you are a little kid, and sometimes when a kid feels he's being attacked he will say anything he knows just to turn to attacks on someone else.
So I feel you just turned this disccusion into a Palastinian/Israel disccusion because you realized your statment about the holocuast is not a very smart one nor a welcomed one here.

Its true, we didn't flame you, its just so hard to believe there are actualy ppl around the world who truely doubt what happened in the holocuast.

So I'll give you a friendly and none hostile tip for life:
"When you have nothing good to say, say NOTHING"

quote:Originally posted by Okand sometimes when a kid feels he's being attacked he will say anything he knows just to turn to attacks on someone else.
are you kidding? its obvious he makes stuff up to make himself look right.

make stuff up, what are you talking about...? im just talking about the things i hear, give me a break....

quote:The reason why he wants to continue it is because you have no idea what your talking about, and you have managed to piss many people off with this arguement

I said that i dont think there was 6 million jewish people in ww2 then an argument emerged, somone could of simply given me proog that there was 6 million jews at that time instead of starting a huge argument and getting people pissed of at me

the fact that we're in the year of 2005 and you need a proof of something with so much information about, says something.

The camps were pretty horrific. Piles of dead jewish people were piled up in mass graves, practically skeletons with skin. God knows what would happen if history repeated itself.

quote:Originally posted by SuperKillthe fact that we're in the year of 2005 and you need a proof of something with so much information about, says something.


show me information from a good source, just because Ok says there was 6 million doesnt mean there was

The post I made before was done in a bit of hurry, so I might have left some things out.

The truth is that m00` said things without knowing of the impact of their meaning. This will, of course, result in at least one person getting angry. But m00' is getting too reckless. You know m00', you could simply do a google search and results would pour out. You don't have to blindly wrong things.

That's like bumping around in the dark and saying that something is on the ground which isn't there, when you could easily turn on the light next to you and see the truth.

Search "holocaust" I found a link quickly without any hassle

http://www.holocaustsurvivors.org/

quote:Originally posted by m00`quote:Originally posted by SuperKillthe fact that we're in the year of 2005 and you need a proof of something with so much information about, says something.


show me information from a good source, just because Ok says there was 6 million doesnt mean there was

i didnt even read Ok's posts.
stop showing us how immature you are.

LOL showing how immaturity you are?

quote:Originally posted by m00`quote:Originally posted by SuperKillthe fact that we're in the year of 2005 and you need a proof of something with so much information about, says something.


show me information from a good source, just because Ok says there was 6 million doesnt mean there was

Why do you NOT think there were 6 million jews?

quote:Originally posted by BManx2000quote:Originally posted by m00`quote:Originally posted by SuperKillthe fact that we're in the year of 2005 and you need a proof of something with so much information about, says something.


show me information from a good source, just because Ok says there was 6 million doesnt mean there was

Why do you NOT think there were 6 million jews?


Because it's a 'fact' based off a biased source and shouldn't be trusted. If you feel that you should trust such info just because everyone accepts it and believes it's true, you're limited.

quote:Originally posted by Meandorquote:Originally posted by BManx2000quote:Originally posted by m00`quote:Originally posted by SuperKillthe fact that we're in the year of 2005 and you need a proof of something with so much information about, says something.


show me information from a good source, just because Ok says there was 6 million doesnt mean there was

Why do you NOT think there were 6 million jews?


Because it's a 'fact' based off a biased source and shouldn't be trusted. If you feel that you should trust such info just because everyone accepts it and believes it's true, you're limited.

As opposed to making stuff up based on NO information?

Not normally, but just regarding to this topic. There are plenty of reason why they would do this, and I won't even begin because I don't have the time. That is because you just haven't taken the time to do a little research, or you'd have realized that such claims aren't unfounded at all. In short, I'll tell you this: any respectable international information source doesn't prohibit free speech. Yet, those who have that kind of information that you believe to be inexistant ('NO information') not only are unwelcome and tagged as nazi instantaneously, but even hampered, and in this case, arrested. This hasn't happened in a country with no civil rights, no, rather in that one country that prides itself for it's freedom of speech, and is called the land of the free, the USA; I am talking about what happened to Ernst Zundel. Look up his name in google, or if you prefer, here is one of the many articles that describe what happened to him http://www.ihr.org/news/030923Zundel.shtml
Why would they do that to a person just because he is writing bull(Please refrain from swearing), for how delicate the subject may be? It is clear that it is something that they do not want to be revealed. Why are they so afraid of him?
Had they ignored him, nobody would've cared - but this reveals there's a whole lot more untold behind.

It took them along time to deport him :|
He was not wanted ere in Canada :P Things like that can get you in alot of trouble because they are not welcomed here. There is basically zero tolerance for it.
Meandor he also distributed Nazi propaganda for well over 30 years which is one of the reasons why he was deported and jailed

maybe in a hundred, or two hundred years many humans will be part every race and racism will be gone, if we survive, not nuking eachother.

You keep talking about sources...news..internet.
Other then hundrad of documantry movies that were made by hollywood.
You can go around asking old vetren soldiers who served in the world war II.
I'm pretty sure some still live, they can tell you what they found when they entered those camps.
If the finding of piles of bodies and crematoriums is not enough for you.
I invite you to come to Israel, and talk to hundrad of old man and women who were in those camps.
But do it quickly, because its just a matter of time before they will all die.
And then ppl all around the world would be able to say "How can I trust those videos?, who's to tell me its not just old ppl who were payed to say those stuff".
Actualy you can say it now, maybe they made alot of wax images and put it in a pile, then filmed it so they in 60 years ppl will think there was a holocuast going on there.

I hope I'm making myself clear enough of how ridiculus this is.
How do I know if there were 6 million jew who got murdered in WW2?
I read it. so many times, saw it in so many movies.
Actualy my grandma herself didn't count each body back then.
You know who did? the Nazis, they had perfect reccords of what they had done.
They were so proud of it and their great system, they reccorded everything.
And thx to them we can say there were 6 millions ppl.
But then again, maybe the ones who read those documants lied? maybe it was less then 6 million?
Maybe it was "ONLY" 3 million? hell maybe only 100,000!! There are 5 that I know for sure, my grandma's family.
So I guess it's alright then...
I hope I made myself clear.
You see, m00`... even if you're right, you're still wrong. and that is the whole point here.