Here I am again, talking to the general public when I'm sure the only ppl who I am not even talking to will answer to me.
But hack, that's what we're here for right? :)

a quick review of today's Soldat activities can quickly show you that the community (european one anyways) is being directed and manipulated by newbies.

TNL was the only resort where you could actualy find some responsabilty and basic sense.
Its dead now, SCTFL sure isn't such a big attraction for the old clans, as the matter of fact every single one of the old clans are very inactive, I'm not talking about clans like EF or MN or(they aint vets, not by players, and not by clan age)

Look at the main attraction now, IPC2, OXID tourny, Gathers, SummerCup.. etc etc all are admined by newbies, who less then a year ago were plain noobs who were just starting to learn about the big world of soldat.
They did not develope the skills needed to run anything related to soldat, even though their intentions are good.

1.2.1 sure disapointed most of the vetrens who just ditched the game, became inactive, still play now'n'then but mostly inactive.
so you hardly see any BA members play, you don't see the SaD tourny and you probably won't anytime soon, I won't start the list of all the old clans we all liked back then.

Is this what today's newbies has to expect in the future? a period of time when they have their fun with their spraying guns untill a new version comes in favour of the new guys and they get screwed over?

Is this what every soldat player has to expect? a sure end to his fun and the way he knew the game?

Do we really want the game to change every 6 months so we get a completly new way that eliminates any sort of expirience we gained through all our hard practice?

Its a shame, because the game has so much potential, a community, ANY community should be run by the old (not age related) ones who were there much before and have much more expirience thus are much more qualified to make decisions that will change the face of the community.

Its very easy to gain power and control, you just pay for some servers and start a thing of your own, the noobs will rush into your channel just to play. its so easy to make a sight and start a tourny with new and "EXCITING" rules.
The hard part is to make sure the good players enjoy it, because that noobs will enjoy anything since the game is all new to them.
noobs eventualy become better, but good players don't become anything, they either go out of the scene, or stay and try to make a change. the latter doesn't happen much since its just a game.
With every good player that leaves the game you loose more quality.
And that's a shame.

Think about it, and stop being so eager to think you're good or not, expirience and practice is the way to be good, you aint born with Soldat skills...

Things'll change guv.

Probably.

I think in any game/game community things happen like in the Soldat Community. In every Community old vets quit and new players(new players aren't noobs everytime) start their own thing and new Clans will grow up. You have to and you will live with it, or you quit and let things go their way. It isnt that annoying as you describe it(just my oppinion)

Ok new players with spray guns are annoying ;)

quote:Originally posted by bl00dy_n0seOk new players with spray guns are annoying ;)
Indeed.

Wasn't gather a tompenny idea? I think he's the player that started the most soldat related initiatives and he has been around pretty long. Summercup is a tnl part, and aren't all the tnl admins veterans? So your theory doesn't hold very strong.

Also I don't know excactly where do you think the problem lies? The n00b initiatives only put some innovation in the scene, they don't replace the old ones, unless they are better and more people will play those, but why would that be wrong?

So, where excactly is the problem in your eyes and how do you think it should go? A strong scene hierarchy looks pretty creepy in my eyes.

1- Tompenny is just 1 guy and far from being qualified to run anything
2- he isn't running the gathers anymore, atm the ones that are, are far from being vetrens, no don't bring up those inactive admins who has an op there.
3- Summercup has nothing to do with TNL (You're thinking about pwnage cup)
4- n00bish initiative doesn't help since they don't do it right and they set up bad standards for others (who think that PHP skills are enough to make a tourny).
5- do try to check your facts, its as you just made up some new one and disagreed with them.

I don't care about hirarchy, I don't mind someone who is playing less then me to run stuff, but the facts and basic sense tells you that someone who has been around longer knows how to predict future problems much better, he knows the community much better and thus has a better chance of creating something good and stable.

TNL admins are vetrens, and here comes the problem, they are not active and don't care much about soldat anymore, WHY? because the new players took over with the help of the new version.
They are all over the place, making it much harder to find quality games even in "top of the line" leagues.

You see clans with 0 team work ,win games, you see them making mistakes that make it so obvious they haven't been playing long enough to beat you.
But it doesn't matter, since the new version allows them to use something in a certin way that will give them enough edge to win unless you do the exact same.

So that's what I'm thinking, if this happened to us, it can happen to them as well, and one day maybe the spas will become overpowered and all those sprayers will become absolute and after getting so good with the autos they will feel robbed by seeing new players with no expiriece beat them so easly.

Chakra, I know what you're talking about, but I also know better, so I "Hope for the best but prepare for the wrost"

Stop trying to run soldat like its a dictorialship

So I presume that you're implying yourself as a veteran, since you're saying that "All noobs use Autos." Well, considering that 5 guns out of 10 are autos, I would say that not all, but only 50% of them use autos.

Being a Veteran of Soldat doesn't mean that they will automatically know the skills to start a tourney. If only Veterans ran the tourneys, then how will the new people get in? Without the occasional starter clan, how can there be competition?

A true soldat player doesn't specialize in only 1 weapon, he/she specializes in all 10. Sure, there will be changes, but you should be able to adapt to it, instead of whining about how all your exp. will go to waste. Plus, there is much more to soldat then just shooting, you can gain much experience by just moving around the map a few times, I'm sure that'll increase your speed, and isn't that experience that wouldn't depend on the weapon balance?

If we accepted your idea, then we might as well have no new patches, no new clans, and no tourneys. Just like things the way they are, and hey, give the newbies a chance, you were one too once.

quote:Originally posted by Leo Da Lunerfox
... since you're saying that "All noobs use Autos." Well,

Never said that or implied that, read my post again.

quote:Originally posted by Leo Da Lunerfox
Being a Veteran of Soldat doesn't mean that they will automatically know the skills to start a tourney.


Again, never said it read again, the exact phrase I used was "Has a better chance of creating something better" which makes sense, which is probably the reason why you manipulated my words.. (harder to counter things who makes sense)

quote:Originally posted by Leo Da Lunerfox
A true soldat player doesn't specialize in only 1 weapon, he/she specializes in all 10. Sure, there will be changes, but you should be able to adapt to it, instead of whining about how all your exp. will go to waste. Plus, there is much more to soldat then just shooting, you can gain much experience by just moving around the map a few times, I'm sure that'll increase your speed, and isn't that experience that wouldn't depend on the weapon balance?

Indeed that's the biggest part of the practice, ofcourse I'm talking about a team effort which is much more them moving better, the movment part comes much faster, but to have good team work it takes alot of practice for most clans.
ty for making my point a bit more clear, I was actually reffering to what you've said, that the real part is much more then aiming, and when new versions creates an ability to counter ALL of that which you've specified very good up there just by using a certin weapon in a certin way, that's just as if you got a new game and you no longer have the Soldat you know and love.
For example, spraying with an AK, if you read it as "all auto users are noobs" well mate I can't teach you reading comprehension, although I was very good at it in school :)

quote:Originally posted by Leo Da Lunerfox
If we accepted your idea, then we might as well have no new patches, no new clans, and no tourneys. Just like things the way they are, and hey, give the newbies a chance, you were one too once.


Now what exactly was my idea? for more expirienced ppl to run things?
Can you please explain to me what is wrong with wanting more expirience in the administration? (without manipulating my words pls)

ppl keep refering to a "newbie" as a curse, I don't.
Its a simple stage everyone has to go through, where you don't know alot about Soldat.
Stop being so defensive when someone calls you a newbie, think about it, maybe you are?
Why don't ask "Why?" and maybe try and learn something :)
I always ask "why?" when someone calls me a noob in some public, ofcourse mostly I just get "(Please refrain from swearing)" or "because you suck (Please refrain from swearing)er".
From me though, you'll get a specified answer and some tips which you can either ignore or try to apply.

yea the world is slowing going mad...

1.2.1 dissapointed barretards. M79 is to strong, though.

quote:Originally posted by Okhack, that's what we're here for right? :)


Sorry, just had to point that out :P

Well,in my opinion MM should just try to remove the bugs from soldat and then it would be perfect to me and many others i think.(Okay,except from le sprayage...must good EU clans here spray)

Blame bink. It made me to almost stop playing after 2 years.

OK, i think that maybe you're starting to face your own mortality dude.
welcome to the world ;)
the young always take over from the old. such is life. it happens incrementally. and so slowly that you never even notice it happening. until all of a sudden you look around and realise that you don't recognise where you are any more. or who these people are around you.
its a natural reaction to shout out N00B!!!!11 and to proclaim that no-one around you is as much of a vet as you are. all that time and fun you had with something has changed. and you're not sure into what.
soldat will be around for a good while yet mate. the tourny hosts will change. the amounts of tournys will fluctuate. and the people playing in them will change.
but what soldat needs are members of the community who are willing to give the time and effort. to host and compete. but to have fun and welcome those who are willing to join in.
without that it may just degenerate into a few public ctf's where you cant get a game for minigun surfers ;P

look there is a time in life where you have to move on... people do stop playing soldat...
clans can't survive forever... thats what i hate about most of the people here they are always trying to hang onto the past they never accept new clans or new players they just call them newbs...
OK i think you just need to walk out of the square box you call the world of soldat and embrace the future

...god..
the young take over the world?
I'm assuming you haven't been working anywhere in your life?
Or maybe you have been working in your father's work place and got a quick promotion.
I can tell you that, you don't go into a working place with 0 expirience and become the boss.
You have to earn it, learn from others, become a better worker proov yourself.

But then again, its the internet you're not the first who I see manipulating words into meaningless and unrelevents senetences.
You might as well talk about world hunger as if it has something to do with Soldat.

Its a GAME! not the real world (although your description does not belong to the real world either).
If you want to be good at a game, or anything while you at it, you have to PRACTICE!
Its that simple! when you make a game so easy! it becomes boring and less attractive! since we're playing each other, so if its too easy for 1 person its too hard for someone else! see the problem here?

quote:IPC2, OXID tourny, Gathers, SummerCupp

Admined by newbies?

I think that even newbie can create some interesting CUP/League etc. On the other hand, leagues such as TNL are admined by veterans. They know soldat/soldat comunity quite well and they are well experienced. As far as experience is concerned, it is quite important.

An Essay Entitled; Ok's reply to me. and his true meanings and sadness with the world ;(

Abstract.
now in order to analyse exactly what yr trying to say to me. i have taken your argument word for word, line by line, to try and decide what it is thats annoying you.

Main.
let us begin.

quote:Originally posted by Ok...god..
the young take over the world?
I'm assuming you haven't been working anywhere in your life?


you assume wrong. end. im not going to branch off into launching expletives at you. you're obviously ticked off with what you percieve as players appearing to think theyre 'da bomb' without having earnt the right.

quote:
Or maybe you have been working in your father's work place and got a quick promotion.


hardly. as you're stipulating as to my origins with obviously the intent to insult me i'll enlighten you. i grew up on a council estate (government subsidised housing for low income/single parent/badly off/etc families for our non-UK international friends). let alone had a rich daddy who bought me cars and gave me some cut responsibility easy job.
so personal issues aside i expect the rest of your post shall be a clean cut argument based on fact and not vendetta. so i shall ignore this poke at me and remain impartial in the name of science.

quote:
I can tell you that, you don't go into a working place with 0 expirience and become the boss.


now forgive me, i'm confused. you're informing me that life doesnt deal you a good hand for no reason right?

then...

why are you bothered by the new comers to soldat who seem to be good at the game, despite being, as people in the gaming and computer world would describe as being a noob? surely they've earnt it by practice? either through playing it to relax in their spare time, or through deciding to train as hard as they can so they can play against the better players and not get owned by them....

quote:
You have to earn it, learn from others, become a better worker proov yourself.


hang on, so NOW you're saying that its ok if they earn their skills by practice or training....
...
and btw its proove. not proov. but thats being picky. we shall continue!

quote:
But then again, its the internet you're not the first who I see manipulating words into meaningless and unrelevents senetences.


well excuse me Mr Fancy Pants. because in my mind, it sure as hell ain't me thats contradicting himself every other sentence.

quote:
You might as well talk about world hunger as if it has something to do with Soldat.


W in the name of F!! now im just cluching my face in confusion. i think you may have gone off the rails. what has this got to do with anything?

wait, are you trying to say that when i drew a comparison between:
A) a constant influx of new talent into soldat, a game that is fairly easy to reach an intermediate level of competance at, inevitably leading to new clans being formed and that not being such a bad thing
and
B) life being relective of this, because eventually the young will supercede the old. if you have so many new people coming into something then they cannot all be accomodated. And that the olds will soon get ticked off with the new and will GRADUALLY move on to better things (from their point of view). Thus it is up to the new to fill the boots of the old. Life in essence is circular.

that i'm drawing paralles between two things that are mutually exclusive? (go google the expression)
in which case you maybe right. but id like to hear why you think its happening then rather than whinging about it all the time. i think maybe you should just remember that its just a game. dont be angry at being killed by a new person. its gonna happen.

quote:
Its a GAME! not the real world (although your description does not belong to the real world either).


hang on... didn't i just say that? you're doing it again. taking one argument. and then flipping it round and using it to try to make your point....
so why are you letting it get to you if you so above it? and i know you think you're above it because of this dam post preaching mr high and mighty.
and so my explantion doesnt fit in the real world huh? well go on then chief. you tell how life is if not circular?


quote:
If you want to be good at a game, or anything while you at it, you have to PRACTICE!


at last something we agree on. however i dont think that the rewards for their practice should be a load of abuse from narked players.... *looks at Ok*

quote:
Its that simple! when you make a game so easy! it becomes boring and less attractive! since we're playing each other, so if its too easy for 1 person its too hard for someone else! see the problem here?


No. i dont see what your problem is in that sentence at all. in fact. you're just speaking gibberish now. the last stop of the insane in the train station of life i feel.
i THINK, you may be saying that soldat is not too hard to pick up and play right? and that by being easily accessible its easy for newbies to come along and kill a vet a few times. which is what is annoying you right? being killed by people you see as beneath you?
BUT if soldat is made harder to get very good at, then we'll have NO decent new players BUT the vets will kick ass. which is far from ideal either... am i anywhere close?

Conclusion.
So, to conclude. There are a lot of new players in soldat. Yes. Is this annoying? Well yes and no. it depends how seriously you play when in a public. and how much you still yearn to play in the passworded [BA]RampantSex with all the vets. Should it be harder for them to get good? should they have to graft more in order to be able to take on the elite? this would have the desired knock on effect of giving the vets something to play for because with skill they could always win. or at least more easily take on newbies.
But as for new players coming along who arent too bad, its going to happen. whether or not you think they deserve it. although you both condemn them for thinking they're great and in the very next sentence say that its ok to be good if you work hard, i think you're just an annoyed person wanting to vent at something you cant control.
My advice: get a hooby. learn to code. play an instrument or a sport. get a gf. Or maybe most of all heed your own advice and your signature. remember its just a game. and its all OK.

Love from Me!
xx!

i love the soldat world like it is at the moment. no gun annoys me, no tournaments annoy me...

maybe it's just because i am one of the mentioned noobs :p

Well that's what I get for argueing with a good english speaker.
ey? ;)
I wish I could say my expectations would be confirmed, but other then a great essay again about manipulating words into arguments you can deal with, there's nothing into what you said.

As you know, I was a noob once upon a time, some of my clan memembers who I see as a GREAT players were noobs not so long ago.

I can give you a list of 10 players who started playing a year ago and I consider them now VERY good players.

I also said it over and over and over and over again, "I want noobs to need to practice inorder to be good"
And you keep talking about them being good is my problem.
Hell NOT! I always go for the weak team so I'll have a challange to deal with.
MY problem is with noobs who are not good at the game yet they still provide a huge challange thx to a certin weapon used in a certin way.

That is my problem, spraying as you can tell requiers no skill, ALOT of skills can improve it Abit, but its not like a vet sprayer will easly take a noob sprayer.
Besides, if we'll all spray the game will become much more boring and stale.

I understand you really got offeneded by my post, I had no intention of insulting you, if I had I would have done a better job at it and you wouldn't need to "assume" like you do now.

The comment about your father is actually a true assumption by me, I mean if you did start a job you would know that the young don't take over the world because they're young, they do when they earn it and the old become absolute.
So I assumed another possiblity that you work in your father's work place and got a good position easly and thus didn't expirience the feeling of being new at work.

I know I'm right since the fact support my claims..
IMMIDIATLY after 1.2.1 came out, almost without any delay the soldat world started changing, as if a new game arrived.
in 1.2 some got pissed and left because the autos became too annoying, but most of us got used to it.'

1.2.1 was just too much, clans that 2 week before 1.2.1 were beaten easly by my clan (and for the right reason, they had 0 team work and bad aim) just took alineup of autos and sprayedand won.
little by little the difference betwin the weaker clans and the stronger clans became more blurred until it became upside down.
Since the stronger clans refused to start spraying back, for the obvious reason! other then winning we like an intense game not a boring one.

So now you see today even the older newbies who are here for a year! started getting annoying from the sprayage, the problem is, newbies will always be around and there will always be new ones, and they will do anything they can to win since they have the disadvatage of having no skills nor the knowlage to win.

Its plain and simple, the better players should win the, better team work should win.
Atm its just who sprays first, no matter how much skills you got when it comes to soldat.

P.s:
I thank you for the interest in my private life :)
I can assure you that I can have a strong opinion about alot of things without losing sleep over it.

my advice to you:
keep your essay skills to the essays, try to avoid insulting others because you can't deal with their argument properly, and if you're going to put my words on display and manipulate them again, do try to think why are you doing it and what good will it do to you, you might notice you already disagree with yourself.
I urge you to look at my posts and see how they ALWAYS turn from a personal note when I answer you to a general disscusion and descriptions of my opinions towords to problem.
While your post was 100% back talk to me and about me, something that certinly won't help the discussion

'try to avoid insulting others because you can't deal with their argument properly'

This made me laugh a little, because you were the one who started with the insults in the first place.. You thought you had I_am_ahab all figured out, and you made accusations at his PERSONAL life.

Oh yes, that 'back talk' does help the discussion Ok.. You see, what he's doing is setting you straight. Although you're not completely wrong, I really think you're making a big deal out of nothing. All he's suggesting
is that you stop (Please refrain from swearing)ing, and go with the flow..

Fact of the matter is, everything he said is completely correct, and you know it.. You're just too proud to accept your own defeat.

Even if people are spraying, team work is still an important issue, for instance: You can never expect to just charge into the enemy base, bullets first, without a care in the world of where your teammates might be.. and run away with the flag..if you go alone, you usually end up dead. And for the record, deagles/rugers seem to be coping just fine with autos.

i am about sick to death of people complaining.

i use every single weapon in moderation. i never, ever have any problems using whatever weapon effectively. bink got you down? stop trying to use a barrett on Arena2. Bink is the best thing thats ever happened to soldat, unless you were a barrettard in 1.2. ive been around for about 2 years and 3 months and i have to say that 1.2.1 has the most balanced weapons. before "n00b spray" people complained about "barret (Please refrain from swearing)". barret (Please refrain from swearing) were much worse. every single gun in this game has a counter weapon. the way it is now? the game is perfect. from this point on we just need more cool features like bullet time. soldat has been perfected, if you dont like the finished product, then do us all a favor and leave.

quote:Originally posted by AerialAssaulti am about sick to death of people complaining.

i use every single weapon in moderation. i never, ever have any problems using whatever weapon effectively. bink got you down? stop trying to use a barrett on Arena2. Bink is the best thing thats ever happened to soldat, unless you were a barrettard in 1.2. ive been around for about 2 years and 3 months and i have to say that 1.2.1 has the most balanced weapons. before "n00b spray" people complained about "barret (Please refrain from swearing)". barret (Please refrain from swearing) were much worse. every single gun in this game has a counter weapon. the way it is now? the game is perfect. from this point on we just need more cool features like bullet time. soldat has been perfected, if you dont like the finished product, then do us all a favor and leave.



Wow, somone who actualy thinks like me. I use whatever weapon I feel will do good on the map I'm on, it completely depends on my circumstances. I wish more people would realise this and just shut up an be happy, find a weapon they like, and actualy kill people. Because people only make these threads when they have a bad day and cant kill somone

"Think about it, and stop being so eager to think you're good or not, expirience and practice is the way to be good, you aint born with Soldat skills..."


You "aint" born with litteracy either.

I was an anti barret player for like, most of my Soldat career.....
I used minimie/styre/de's/m79 and some spas and ruger prior to 1.2.1 (ever since 1.1.2 or so)
And look at me now, the biggest whiner about autos, I also agree bink is a great feature, just not on all the weapons.
1.2.1 brought spraying, and it will stay even if bink will be removed, now ppl spray with Ruger, de's even spas and soccom!!. its a shame since that style makes a doll game, a bullet fest if both sides do it, and if only 1 side does it, its a massacar.

Let's not drag this into weapon balance. Ok, I think what you're saying is that newbies somehow have the power nowadays to come into the Soldat community and right away be able to overthrow the most powerful of players? If you're not, please correct me. :)

I don't exactly believe that to be true. While I can't be comletely sure of it, I can tell you from personal experience that when I go into a public server, I can make a difference in the CTF scores just by switching teams. I have the skills and the knowledge to easily defeat a partial team of players that have been playing for no longer than 2 months. I don't mean to boast. Sometimes I can literally control the flag capture scores if I want to. If I see that one team is heavily falling behind, I can switch to that team and help them catch up.

Despite all my babbling, what I'm really trying to say is that I don't experience what you do in an average day of Soldat. That's about it.

WARNING! SCROLL AHEAD!!!!

quote:"..newbies somehow have the power nowadays to come into the Soldat community and right away be able to overthrow the most powerful of players.."

(Please refrain from swearing) christ, that's an exact description of what I mean...
ty Kazuki, I feel that this is true, since I've been a "good player" in a "good clan" for a long time and in more then 1 clan.
I saw clans come and go, I saw players come and go, I can tell you that ever since 1.2.1 started the newbie community became skilled over night, you see players become good way too fast.
I remember SCTFL 3 for example when it was obvious who is a new player and who is old.
The styles were different, you could see the newbies evolve into better players.
Today its not that anymore, its just a matter of picking the right weapons.
Whenever I play vs a weaker clan, and we own them they immidiatly turn to spraying, which right away makes it twice as hard for us to cap, even though our aim is much better with other weapons.

I think game itself became too easy anyways, its much easier to kill, gets very frustrating for someone who has been playing the game for ages, and got used to the fact that if you use better tactics, have better aim, and apply good teamwork you'll do good.


And let me tell you a story about a game I just play, an official one.
It started off pretty well for us, 1 de, 1 styre and 1 m79 below (our lineup).
Their lineup at first was blurry, we came up to 2-0 pretty fast, then they realized it aint working since we kill them if they face us, so they tried m79 jumping, we adpated to that as well, but that was only after they managed to cap 1.
Then unfortunatly my door started ringing, it was my mom, apperently I forgot the key inside.
So I went to answer it, came back it was 2-2, then, they took 1 AK, and 1 Minimie and 1 barret campers below.
for 3 minutes they just sprayed and went back, then after reload sprayed again and moved on.
They realized they can't win that round since we were just better, we adapted to the m79 jumping, we adapted to the camping below, but there is notihng to be done against spraying other then spraying back, we took 2 styre above, tried to cap again, it was just too hard.
and trust me, they did not aim, they did not play better, if smarter players were using those weapons we would have lost that map probably since we didn't spray back.

This is my problem, when you are better, the other team can still stop you from winning, not thx to team work, not thx to skill, only thx to the new version.

Wouldn't you be frustrated?

P.S we were lucky since they did not spray right at first, they played normaly, attacked with a veriety of weapons tried all sorts of things, a "lame" clan would just take autos right away to make sure we don't have a chance at first.

P.S2 :P I expirience the same thing u do, when I switch teams and change the result by that, but I'm talking about players who know basics of CTF, but still lack team work and advanced dodging skills and aiming in hard situations, using nades in a smart way and so on...

I think I know what you mean. I remember that back in 1.1.5 and early 1.2 some people actually recognized me as a good player. I wouldn't know because I don't like to rank myself. In today's Soldat society, I'm just another one of the crowd. It seems like all of these "good" players are popping out of nowhere. Is that what you're trying to say? And yes, that would piss me off in a clanwar. It wouldn't be so bad in a mixed scrimmage, but a clanwar is different.

Edit: About the growing population of "good" players; I thought until now that it was only natural because Soldat is a living, growing community. It's expected that other experienced players will eventually rise up from the ground. However, after reading what you're trying to explain to the whole board, I believe that there is a difference between a "good" player and an "experienced" player. Somehow, I'm not able to understand the differences between the two myself, but I hope you understand what I'm saying.

In a sense your right, but we were once noobs too and without this extra step we couldnt be who we are now. Todays "noob" can become tommorows "pro".

I understand that perfectly. The things I'm concerned about are become a pro too fast/easily, or being overflowed by so many pros that the word itself loses meaning.

There will always be "noobs" and pros..as long as anyone keeps playing soldat :X

quote:Originally posted by KazukiI understand that perfectly. The things I'm concerned about are become a pro too fast/easily, or being overflowed by so many pros that the word itself loses meaning.


Becoming a pro too fast/easily depends on who you are and how fast you pick up on games, meaning that A might not be as good as B, but they both started the same day, same time.

About the overflow of the word "pro", yes its being used by an outrageous amount of noobs, but it will most likely never stop, so we have to deal with the consequences.

imo all of the "new" topics by Ok are about him wanting to be recognised as a vet... wont work lad. put your money where your mouth is first. and btw its TomPenny not Tompenny.. + noddy isnt a noob.. so isnt suomi.. and i can run stuff if i want.. and if it dies.. what the fuzz.. atleast i gave it a shot.. not like you who only japs all day long.. do something so it will take away the everyday bore :P

quote:Originally posted by Avaraxi love the soldat world like it is at the moment. no gun annoys me, no tournaments annoy me...

maybe it's just because i am one of the mentioned noobs :p


hkm.. like a month ago you were screaming "barretard" when i shot you down.. ^^ strange isnt it?

Yes kazuki I know what you mean..
I'm actually reffering to the fact that its not about skills...
I have no doubt that if an expirienced player starts spraying back he will be able to beat those noobish sprayers, it won't be easy but eventually the expirience will take over it.
ofcrouse they will just see what u do and copy it since it won't be too complicated.

In past times inorder to copy the good players you had to practice it alot with your teammates, and even that wouldn't work sometimes since team work requirs chemistry, how much chemistry do you need to spray and stay away from you enemie as a team?
I won't start describing what team work is and all sorts of tactics that were applied once upon a time.

The game became too easy in short, a player can match up to a good and smart veteran very fast, since there is no need to be so smart/sneaky/expirienced.
The match I described earlier shows it perfectly, those players don't use much AK/Minimie I know since I played vs them in many ocasions (SEC tourny as well).
But for some reason they did better when a weapon they don't use mostly ...and I myself can testify I'm doing much better with an AK alot of times, I don't like using it since I feel there is no combat invloved and it gets very boring for me.
Also specificly I find all that spraying fest just too much , it makes the game so ugly and so annoying so it doesnt matter if I win or not...

Very frustrating, very annoying that any noob can force me to play the way he wants without putting an effort into it.

TompeNNY: No. :)

Something to think of:
Tompenny, you always claim you don't give a (Please refrain from swearing) about the community , you think most of them are (Please refrain from swearing)e, you say you don't give a (Please refrain from swearing) about what anyone thinks.
Then you make stuff like "gathers" and "awards".
Isn't that just an opportunity to gain power? all you kick/bans that eventually got your sorry ass kicked out of your own creation? (tompenny got kicked out of running the gathers for being an asshole).
Didn't you then try to ban everyone by using the channel owners you had?
Would it be so wrong to say that everything you do is just an attempt to gain power over others? all the kick/bans you have :) the awards thingy whom everyone claims to be just a popularity contest with no connection to reality?
You continue to make the mistake that your have the skills to run things.
sure you can script, you can build sites, you might even be able to program.
But you need to understand that that's not the skills needed to run a good community project, fact is once you left the gathers started growing, all those who refused to come in there, started playing once u left.
You go and accuse me of stuff you see in the mirror, which isn't new I can understand you are frustrated by how you get ripped of the fame you desire so much.
Maybe if you weren't acting like an asshole and actually think about the community insted of your own desires then you'll be famous and known for good and not for bad, maybe then ppl can trust you to make something good.

Now pls, if you don't give a (Please refrain from swearing) about soldat and its community why won't you just go away?

P.s: if you'll just dare to deny you said all those things, I have can get quotes ready to be pasted within a 5 minutes work, just say the word :)

I agree, but noobs come, vets quit, thats the way, and you can do nothing about it.

And what you meant by that post, there should not be ANY noob tourneys around, if you don't like them, dont pay attention on them.

E: If i understand right, you are upset that you have played for 3 years, and then tehre comes "noobs" who actually play very well with Deagles, and which makes them very good, since Deagles > others (well, except 1shot, 1kill's.. 100% accurate(are they?) and fast reaload..)

well, i understand your point then.. I have felt the same, the new versions dont bother because i can use lamost any of weapons, so if there is more bink and spray, i start to use Ak again, if less, then barrett. Thats the way to handle it.

im gonna step in here.
i under stand exactly what this post is about, while also accepting the fact of the way the world and its different levels evolve i must say that you vets , and us less known vets (been playing for 1 and a half years, on and off for the first half a year) have lost our edge. i used to relate soldat to fencing (with swords not building fences). you went into a bout unsure of what youll get and it was a battle of adapting to the foes style and not of strength, finese and not speed....like what that monk said in bullet proof monk.
but some where in the change of versions soldat has lost its honour. the times when you could declare a knife fight and people wouldnt interfere or pull out there gun once there losing. the times where you could be a crack shot with the rugar (like me) and not be kicked for hakin (i dont even know of a hacking program for soldat)an as said before, when one man could determine the difference in the games, and the heroes were begged to change sides. i remember when i took on 3 people alone in ctf and won, i tried that now, they all changesd to either m79 or barret and camped at my base while one of them continuly stole the flag and returned it. thats not tactics thats dishonour. i geuss though that it isnt the versions, or the guns, its the community. and lets admit it when was the last time we brought a newbie under our wing and taught him the way, i know i havent

Yes that's a major problem, I offered michal a good suggestion.
To have a group of respected players write a guide to the soldat world.
And explaination of how its built, cw's fcw's all sorts of slangs invented.
What is considered "lame" and what is considered "pro", could be very easy to explain. :)
Hard= pro, easy= lame. that's why ppl lame isn't it :) to make things easier for them.

Also some moral codes, like not cursing someone who is owning u just because he's lagging or simply better.
or not hacking, and so on..
It might change the community a bit, atm hackers, sprayrse, campers have no problem doing what they r doing, since they just see other use the word "whine" as air to breathe..so they see the problem is you, not them, that is ofcourse untill they get bored and all of a sudden start hating the same thing they had done.

exactly, Ok my man you have a plan, i reckon you should write a guide that would explain soldat etticate to the masses. not me im lazy :P but you could. explain how crappy habits like camping and spraying are not only is ineffective but also bad for the community, but well always have those who will still do it. my sollution is go on private servers like u13. but you should still give the guide to soldat ettique a go

Yes, the problem is michal didn't answer me ;)
I guess he didnt like the idea, or just got tired of me spamming his email with my ideas :P

it's ok xD

Gathers are running good, and you dont necessarily need to be a good player to do good organization. Suomip for example is both: a good player and he is also doing well with the gather. He isnt a noob either. I dont know when he started soldating, but I wouldnt disqualify him in this matter just because he isnt playing for X (insert number) years already.

Think twice please, even players who play for 3 months only can have the skills to run a really good tournament/cup/league. Some learn faster, some learn slower, but the amount of spent time into Soldat can't be the only thing to grade them with.

About the old clan/new clan things: Thats the way things go, especially in E-Sports. The average existing time of a Soldat clan is 3 months as a max. A few of the newly founded one persist for a long time, the rest just gets inactive, merges with another clan or just closes. The number of those clans that "stand the test of time" is rising though, and you can find many members of dead old clans in newly formed teams, just in different constellations. Again, some of them will persist the way they are, others will break up and new teams will be formed. Its a neverending process and happening in every popular multiplayer game.
Don't forget, there is a sheer mass of newly founded clans, so even if only a small percentage persists, the total number is greater than the number of dying vet clans.

And there is one thing you forgot;

Today's newbs are the vets of tomorrow, and without those "newbs who are trying to run soldat events", the soldat scene would most likely die soon.

The way it works now is the base for a safe future and long existence of the community and therefore the game itself.

"Today's newbs are the vets of tomorrow, and without those "newbs who are trying to run soldat events", the soldat scene would most likely die soon."

Indeed, dunno about you, but I already see "old" newbies complain on today's community, I see veterans quiting the game and whining not because they got sick of the game, but because the game they new doesnt exsist anymore.
Soldat didn't just change, its almost a completely different thing (I'm talking about the clan world).

Also I'm not talking about being orginized you don't learn that through soldat.
I'm talking about expirience with a soldat community, knowing about problems before they happen and solving them.
Being able to dismiss something even if do it yourself because most players just don't like that.
That is something soumip can't do, and if you want I'll transfer some quotes of his to show you stuff that agreed being hated by most but he wouldn't eliminate them since he personaly like to do it.
I won't publicize it since it wouldn't be fair.

Everyone missed the whole point of this thread, you keep defending the newbies as if I'm blaming them of something.
I'm not, I'm saying if this happens to us and the game lost its whole meaning for so many players it will happen to the vets of tomorrow, which is the same newbies who you are treating as victims of this thread.

The fact is, the future isn't bright for them as it was for us pre 1.2.1.
I managed to enjoy the game for 2 years (ALOT of fun).
What I'm saying is that they won't get that far, since they won't feel the excitment of becoming good at the game, unique in your own way.
Everyone is spraying to win :) veriety is close to 0%... too hard to be unique no matter how skilled u r.

This really isn't a whining post (the first one), I had my share of fun, alot of it to be honest. soon my life won't allow me to be so active in soldat anyways, so even if the game changes, I wouldn't get to enjoy it for long.

But giving something back to the community is a nice way to pay back for everything I got.
I doubt anyone will see my point today, they will when they'll get sick of it.

P.s: dibo I've been looking all over for u meh, where the hell did u go?!

omg I've just gave up reading all of this in the middle of the first page.
however, most of the leagues run pretty fine..
so yeah, this version is pretty dissapointing but and we have to wait for the new version and hope for better, that's all.

You're just saying that because you...... ah crap I can't say that :S

quote:Originally posted by xSyneXx
You "aint" born with litteracy either.
My english teacher says "ain't" for the sake of crap.
AND I eat grits.



Anyway....
I like and use all of the weapons, with the exception of the minigun and maybe the barret.

A lot of times, I don't even look at which gun I pick, 'cause I don't really care which one I get.

"Everyone is spraying to win :)" What do you mean by "spray"?

I didn't read 3 pages but:

TNL isn't dead. SEC IS part of TNL. TNL3 will start "soon" (probably after summer, as alot of people are away atm). Not all the admins play regularly, but when the admins include Denacke and grand_diablo, do they really need to play every minute to prove themselves? I don't care about the new generation of soldatters much (deagle-brigade), but I sure as hell care about those older players, I've said on numerous occasions we are fighting a noob-war ;o

SaD tourny is starting in August, and this has been planned for some time.

We need a new version soon.

(SOrry if this has been posted in the other pages, but I didnt bother reading past the first page).

quote:Originally posted by Ok

But giving something back to the community is a nice way to pay back for everything I got.
I doubt anyone will see my point today, they will when they'll get sick of it.

P.s: dibo I've been looking all over for u meh, where the hell did u go?!



Well, I guess you are just "overplayed", that happens when you continously play a game. Also in Soldat, especially when one version starts lasting for a longer time, this version's weakness was the spraying that scared a lot of ppl away because new clans started being successfull with 3 automatics. But this trend is decreasing and maybe a new version will solve this entirely.
Tbh in March and April I was rather inactive because I almost got tired of the game and the spraying, because this trend was on it's peak at that time. I started playing actively again in May, and it felt a lot better because many clans started recognizing, that sacrifying the fun to be more successfull by spraying wont bring them far. This is a learning process that occurs again and again and again, with every new version.

Also, quite a number of vets have a comeback, especially - but not only - when a new version comes out. I wonder whom we'll see again with the next Soldat version ^^
I dont think the problems are as severe as you describe them. Sure, noobs with a talent to organize things got to learn how the community works, as the Soldat scene is very unique. But instead about whining about this, we -as experienced players/vets/however youd call it- should assist them and/or give them the time to learn. Trial and error, its an ancient principle.
Of course there will always be people who dont want to be taught, but those wont stay in an important admin position for a long time. Suomip is not one of those. He doesnt seem to be so directly involved with the community, but this doesnt prove that he doesnt know how its working. Many "vets" seem a bit "distanced" and maybe this is a good thing, because too much closeness could dry out the grounds for new ideas to come up. We should hel ambitious and friendly noobs, but not my forcing them to do it how wed do it, but by still letting them go their own way.

quote:
P.s: dibo I've been looking all over for u meh, where the hell did u go?!


Im teh busy, but holidays start tommorow :D

Well that's true, every versions gets ppl to stop playing and some to come back.
But 1.2.1 brought it to new records, its a huge difference betwin 1.2.1 to to 1.2
I can't think of any major change actually in other versions, most vest quickly adapted and applied their expirience.
Which makes senes, we don't want a new game, part of the fun for me in soldat is the fact I've been playing it for a long time and I got good at it.
I wouldn't want to start a new game similiar to soldat, since it will be just pointless, why start over again ?
That's why so many playrs stopped playing, everyone keep saying that I whine because I aint as good as I used to be :) well I myself don't think so but my clan have, we are now forced to play a whole different game. so yes, its partialy true :)
But as you said, future versions will fix it, recently I came to realized the beloved pole has a bit of sense in his box :) so I have faith in him.

I think that even newbie can create some interesting CUP/League etc. On the other hand, leagues such as TNL are admined by veterans. They know soldat/soldat comunity quite well and they are well experienced. As far as experience is concerned, it is quite important.

quote:Originally posted by -Claw-"Everyone is spraying to win :)" What do you mean by "spray"?
Spraying is taking an auto and firing blindly into the distance in hoping that you'll hit someone. N00bs love to do this at their bases with the 'Minigun on ctf_Viet (I haven't seen that happen much recently, but then again I haven't played on ctf_Viet recently :-P).

MM will fix this or we will when the source code is reveled. I'm guessing it will take at least 5 years...

On the other hand, I don't see much wrong with 'spraying'. It's considered a cheap, dumb tactic but it works. There isn't a rule that is written that thou shalt not spray.

Besides, everyone was a 'noob' once. Sure, plenty of them won't change for a long time but there are at least a few that have great potential. Don't be so rough on them, give them some time to grow.

Also, more interested people(whether they suck or not) = more attention = more events like leagues. Currently Soldat is doing well and yet still growing. It's in the top 100 most played games right now competing with retail games. It all just takes some time.

(Sorry if some of the above doesn't make sence. I wrote this past midnight..)

meh, we are at the point where Ok is getting paranoid. "Look at the main attraction now, IPC2, OXID tourny, Gathers, SummerCup.." in some cases you are right, but overall you can't say all new is crap bleh bleh. I bet there are several ppl who made big and good tourneys in other games, where they were well known. As well as you think you are knowsn here... some of this ppl found out the world of soldat. Because they aren't in the community for years their skill for organisation is crap? If you are to cool for the 'newer' part of the community just create your own (Please refrain from swearing) for your 'vets' and feel happy, that you rescued the community once again! *hoorAy* But who the (Please refrain from swearing) is a 'noob' and who is a 'vet' in your eyes? A vet' isn't some1 who is playing for X (insert a number) years. It's just some1 who is active in IRC and this forums.. so he is known to the others. No matter what his skills are... he just needs to be nice and have friends in here. And this makes him a vet.. yeah gj. Other guys who were playing for a long time and know the community very well are just newbs because they don't think it's necessary to post answeres to your long posts that because they actually dun care. In my opinion atm there are just 4 vets around. That are Avskum, Donnie Darko, Rune and Suomip .. because that's their clan name. EVERY other guy is just a soldat player - nothing more. Sure some of them are new, but why do you care? Just because some1 of them can be better than you? Maby of the news ppl are also able to beat you with every gun you want. But they will stay newbs because you don*t know them since years... That dun make you better, guy.

Did you just say that they are the only vets becuase they are in SV?
Or am I imagining???

I said, that they can be called vets, because that is their clan. ALL other are just soldat players - not more. Or isn't that why we are all here? To play soldat? This "i am a vet, because I am cool" (Please refrain from swearing) is getting annoying.

Well first of all you aint cool, plus being cool has nothing to do with being a vet.
And ofcourse your clan does not make you a veteran ......
so no, they r not vets because of that reason..
All the little kids get offened when someone tells them "you're not a vet"
As if its a medal of honor, its no more then a status you're in. so get over it.
"I said, that they can be called vets, because that is their clan. ALL other are just soldat players "
Veterans for example have been around long enough to know that's craaaap. so there you go, your first idea of what veterans know that u dont.

whine whien spray overpowered auto minimi whine all crap whine lawcamp whine. So am I a vet now?
w/e .. as usually it makes no sense to talk with you. You got your own opionion and nothing - absolutely nothing - could ever change it.

No need to change it :)
Version is changing instead, apperently I'm not the only one who "whine whine whine + whatever you blabed over there"

minimiers and law campers art Veterans... their noobs, i know a FEW clans that rely on the minimi and law..

quote:Originally posted by OkNo need to change it :)
Version is changing instead, apperently I'm not the only one who "whine whine whine + whatever you blabed over there"

sure you aren't. I hate the law and minimi-(Please refrain from swearing), too. Almost everyone does. It was just an overacted manner of your 'vet-opinion'. I bet - and there is no doubt - that there are several 'newbs' out there, who can beat you with _every_ weapon you can imagine. Are they still nabs, because they don't play as long as you? There are several ppl out there able to make an own tournament.. bigger and much better than others. When I see 'vets' making well known tournaments that die for about 1 month because they dun have a server.. I think there is no need for further comments. Or when I see what happened to the first eu-cup made by 'vets'.. same there. After two months work it was to hard to create a palyoff-tree out of the remaining active teams. But if the new guys even don't get the chance, because they are news to the community.. what will happen? yeah, soldat will die, because there will be no new players. Or are you going to play soldat until you are 30 40 or 50 together with your 50 yrs old 'vets'? As gd wrote: "Today's newbs are the vets of tomorrow, and without those", so just try to give them a chance and don't classify all the players into two classes.

Hmm, how long do i need to be around to be a veteran?

well, i played Soldat first time in 1.1.3, so am i vet?
But really started at 1.2..

I want to know what am i now. :P

quote:[i]

TompeNNY: No. :)

Something to think of:
Tompenny, you always claim you don't give a (Please refrain from swearing) about the community , you think most of them are (Please refrain from swearing)e, you say you don't give a (Please refrain from swearing) about what anyone thinks.
Then you make stuff like "gathers" and "awards".
Isn't that just an opportunity to gain power? all you kick/bans that eventually got your sorry ass kicked out of your own creation? (tompenny got kicked out of running the gathers for being an asshole).
Didn't you then try to ban everyone by using the channel owners you had?
Would it be so wrong to say that everything you do is just an attempt to gain power over others? all the kick/bans you have :) the awards thingy whom everyone claims to be just a popularity contest with no connection to reality?
You continue to make the mistake that your have the skills to run things.
sure you can script, you can build sites, you might even be able to program.
But you need to understand that that's not the skills needed to run a good community project, fact is once you left the gathers started growing, all those who refused to come in there, started playing once u left.
You go and accuse me of stuff you see in the mirror, which isn't new I can understand you are frustrated by how you get ripped of the fame you desire so much.
Maybe if you weren't acting like an asshole and actually think about the community insted of your own desires then you'll be famous and known for good and not for bad, maybe then ppl can trust you to make something good.

Now pls, if you don't give a (Please refrain from swearing) about soldat and its community why won't you just go away?

P.s: if you'll just dare to deny you said all those things, I have can get quotes ready to be pasted within a 5 minutes work, just say the word :)



I made the gather cose I was bored + mostly sucky ppl like you played on publics..
so the gather was made.. ^^ mankind always made new stuff to serve for a reason. my reason: i get bored a lot. is that a crime? ^^
you on the other hand, complain all the god damn time.. stfu already. who gives a (Please refrain from swearing) what you think? youre just another empty voice which japs all day long and doesnt do (Please refrain from swearing). as i said a million times before.. put your money where your mouth is.
--
to claw: now youre a soldat player ^^ isnt that enough?

talk about a hater. sit the fu-ck down and stfu. new players are what keeps soldat fresh. not stale lamers that only talk about how 1337 they are. these guys who make new leagues are what keeps soldat alive. so they did not see soldat when you did. they are no different. they are just in a diff. time frame then you. as for new versions.... so a new one came out... and your milk was fixed... don't stay all butt hurt cuz you can not get over on the game.... the only thing that is bad for soldat is peeps like you. grow bro.... hate only kills.

I actually agree with all of these opinions, Ok is kinda right, so is Tom Penny, and BBaG is actually totally right..

Thus we have the reason why almost none of the more quality players in soldat post in here.
So many "bad students" who just look for a reason to flame one another.
I never said "noobs stop make tournies"
I said "vets make more"
Btw tompenny, or anyone else who says "who the (Please refrain from swearing) cares", if you post and comment, you care alot :)
Aspacialy if you "whine" about my "whines" then "whine" about how I lag.. then "whine" about erm.. how I suck? god knows what else you'll find to whine about next.
And I'm talking as a true whiner! you really took whining to a new level, I won't be surprised if you'll start complaining about my name, reminds me of kinder garden when kids can't make smart comments so they try to put u down by saying stupid things that don't even make sense.

noobs of today sure is the vets of tommorow, but if you'll compare it to rael life, presednt bush was once a young polician indeed that doesnt mean a 25 years old policitian will be made a presedent now does it....
pls, go to school when it opens up, ask your reading comprehension teacher to try harder next time :\ unless you really are looking for reason to flame...


P.S: untill like 4-5 months ago I had about 4-5 posts in here (I have an account since 2003) its just that I'm collecting alot of bull(Please refrain from swearing) by this thread for the near future that will make all of this look so funny :)
I just can't wait ^_^

Well, can't whine about lag, "omg i'd win without your lag", should i say that to every american when me or they have 180-230 ping?

And Penny <-> Ok lag can not be that big.. lag shoudn't be reason to whine ;|

quote:Originally posted by Ok
I never said "noobs stop make tournies"
I said "vets make more"

but but vets dun make mistakes, eh? like letting teams pass with 5 strikes (rules say 3 strikes = kick), or going offline for about 1 month in the middle of the season or making crappy decisions where no decision is needed (SEC). All tourneys got their own (Please refrain from swearing) - no matter who admins em. ;)

But the main question is: why is a 'noob' actually a 'noob'? Because he is new, or because he isn't as good as a 'vet' in playing soldat? If a 'noob' is playing for about 3 months and is able to beat a 'vet' with every weapon.. is he still a 'noob'?

And thank you for the advise to go to school. But sadly I finnished it two years ago, so no need to go back... and I am not looking for reasons to flame. If you think so - your problem. But you should read your own postings first... and if you don't see it.. try to think about em ;).

A noob = newbie, no matter how good is he/she, if s/he is new, s/he is newbie and no veteran..

Can veteran be a bad player a "noob"?

No, it seems "newbie" is slightly different from "n00b" ACT. Newbies are people who are just new to something. N00bs are retards who make just about everything worse (and are new to something :-P) and swear at you for beating them. At least, that's the general impression I get.

quote:Originally posted by -Claw-
... lag shoudn't be reason to whine ;|
I whine about lag in general, not about any specific players :-D

Well yeah, but still the word "n00b"/"noob" has came from "newbie" ;)

well, i am used to play on lag, and i dont use words like "hit" and such, maybe "die" sometimes when someone survives from incredible amound of damage (because of that lag ;D)

quote:Originally posted by -Claw-
... still the word "n00b"/"noob" has came from "newbie"...
True, can't argue against that :-P
I don't usually play on servers with more than 200 Ping for me because the lag basically kills rifles and the LAW (which I use all the time; I even leave a server if it has it disabled most of the time).

I am a connection perfectionist. If I can't find a sever that has a ping under 110, I'll go and play with bots instead.