About weapon balance, i calculated something for semi-autos and autos, damage/s:

Deagles: 43.7
Mp5: 105.8
Ak: 87.7
AUG: 81.2
Spas-12: 102.3
Ruger 77: 75.0
FN Minimi: 80.0

Socom: 78.4

In that list, i have calculated something with speeds, so it might not be 100% accurate, but it surely gives the way..

Why is now most used weapon ferfed to minimum stage?
Why is the most powerful auto STILL even MORE powerful when compared to others than before??

Spas seems to be Ok, i think, maybe a bit nerfing (7.5-12.5) would be nice.


And dont tell me that i dont knwo what i am talking about.

I have played many clanwars and Gathers to test out the weapon balance.

I noticed that Mp5 was just most used, and im sure that not everyone has calculated those, they have felt it.


Weapon mods, it would be nice to have one update to update a weapons.
Because:
a) - If there is no update, there might be clanwars where some team win with some WM, and some with other, which just means whining.

b) - All servers wont use same weapons mod for sure, if there was v1.3.1, everyone HAS to have it and so servers are balanced also.


Also, why was top of B2b modded, and more jet added?

Why cabt all weapons just have ~5-10% danage difference, nerf then which ar most used, to make less used to become more used..



and also... As i see: Rugers power hasnt been decreased, reload dime has been increased

On 1.2.1 Ruger and DE were almost 100% same dmg (mp5 came at 3rd place), now, ruger does that 75 damage, if the damage hasnt been decreased, it means that MP5, AK, MINIMI AND AUG HAS BEEN MADE MORE POWERFUL THAN IN 1.2.1!!!

You have totally failed testers, so is MM, whole Soldat 1.3 make it even bugger Autofest.

Now the problem is not Spraying, now it is Autos in general.. Thank you.

I think the balance is pretty damn good(better than before)[This is also coming from a deagle user, a weapon which is hard as f!ck now].

But yeah Spas and HK seem a little overpowered, they needed to be toned down a TAD.

quote:Originally posted by MarbireI think the balance is pretty damn good(better than before)[This is also coming from a deagle user, a weapon which is hard as f!ck now].

But yeah Spas and HK seem possible a little overpowered, they needed to be toned down a TAD.


You say balance is good because you use deagles, so you don't care about the other weapons that got really sh***, you only have to deal with a a little less power for this version, but to ak/steyr/minimi you have to add that "self-bink" ...

Yes, but:

MM: Autos are nerfed.
Players: HOORAY!!!

and then...

On 1.2.1 Ruger and DE were almost 100% same dmg, so i can see there 1.2.1 rugers damage, but look at Mp5 damage... :| <- Is that what really happened, just made weapons harder to hit and more powerful?

And since the law is "hold to shoot" its worthless for quick shots. I though I noteced something odd about the autos.

Im happy with the new weapon balance. As a rugertard, i like Ruger is more 1.2 likeish. I like it cos i played whole 1.2 with Ruger and drop to 1.2.1 was harsh :|

Anyways, i actually use every single weapon (not minigun, nor chainsaw that much) in cw's, and i cant whine anymore of dropping eg. Deagles' damage near to socom. I just use another one instead. I see it from all the angles (well, nobody isnt still perfect).

Actually im kinda happy what 1.2.1 done to me, it made me use all the weapons.

Dont mind the sleepy fins talking... I know its messy... :|

Ok, you know what? You do better. Right now. Make a weapon mod on your own that blows this away.

Oh, and that one also!

It seems that 1 shot weapons (M79 5% less range, LAW has that startup time..) are heavily nerfed, and utos made more inaccurate bu more powerful, GG!


quote:Originally posted by LazehBoiOk, you know what? You do better. Right now. Make a weapon mod on your own that blows this away.
What would it help, if 1 server would use it, would all clans whhc pla with us agree to that, i think no.. That is the main problem.

If Soldat had that Central computer to store those weapon mods, servers would download them and use them, changin mod would be easy for all servers..

Teh Panda: I dont mean that they nerfed some weapon, that i cant play now.

Look at my first post, compare those damages, and look at the bottom of the post...

I think you see: Mp5 is more powerful than in 1.2.1!?

even if it isnt, it is STILL most used weapon now..

I remember seeing a bunch of people using Cold_Fusion's mod for clan wars in 1.2.1 and didn't the famous Soldat Gather use it, too?

Where did you get all those numbers from? Explain.

Yes, it was made for TNL3?

And, 1 gather server used it for some time..

If i now make a mod, i think no one would care, no one knows me, and im not saying that i could do perfect mod, but still, just compare those damagevalues and see. :/

No matter who makes it, just needs a bit balancing still..

I asked some help from michal how does speed affect to weapon damage..

Heres the answer: "I don't think you'll get much info from thinking like that. It is true that the player has 100 health at start but I can't really say how the speed affects the damage. It's all math done by the CPU."

In other words: Only CPU knows how to do the math.

And, now as i said before, Mp5 is stronger than in 1.2.1, michal refuses to tell the formula to calculate how speed affects to damages.

But if i knew the right formula (i use now pretty close one, at least Spas'es damage is very close :o) it would make damages more even..

i've noticed that the people saying that the balance is fine don't have to worry about not being able to aim anymore. i've said it once and i'll say it again, give the deagle and the ruger some recoil and see how fast these people who say balance is fine come in and say it isn't fine.

quote:Originally posted by N1nj@Where did you get all those numbers from? Explain.


From weapons.ini.
I think there is some "def. speed" which might be 200 (with my formula, the damage is close to real one ;o) where to compare..

If weapon does 100 damage and speed is 150, weapon does 75 damage, because 150 is 75% from 200..

If weapon does 200 damage, speed is 220, weapon would do 220 damage, because 220 is 110% from 200..

This is how i calculated:

(Damage / interval) * 60

And speed is affected: def. speed - weapon damage / 20 (2 because of def speed is 200..)..

I think it gives pretty close damages, those are from NEAR, jsut 1 pixel from weapon barrell or so, to body, with no target and weapon moving..

-------

quote:Originally posted by solohan50i've noticed that the people saying that the balance is fine don't have to worry about not being able to aim anymore. i've said it once and i'll say it again, give the deagle and the ruger some recoil and see how fast these people who say balance is fine come in and say it isn't fine.


First of all, im not blming the self bink, it has notinh to do with tis whining ;P

Im trying to help, i dont thin that all Mp5 clanwars are interesting, i have had such a hell on some clanwars and gathers that i had to come to whine about it to here :|

that wasn't directed at you Claw, that was directed more towards Panda and marbire who both stated that they're a deagler and a "ruger-tard", respectively.

quote:Originally posted by solohan50that wasn't directed at you Claw, that was directed more towards Panda and marbire who both stated that they're a deagler and a "ruger-tard", respectively.
Well, sorry, my mistake.

quote:Originally posted by GoreYou say balance is good because you use deagles, so you don't care about the other weapons that got really sh***, you only have to deal with a a little less power for this version, but to ak/steyr/minimi you have to add that "self-bink" ...


No..... I say balance is good because Deagles are harder, and so are autos...... everything is. Killing takes more skill. I use deagles, but I have tried other weapons. And this is my opinion after a few days, so I'll give it more. I've seen new versions come and go, it's rare that anyone likes it the first couple days. And I do, so it's a good sign.

But yeah, LAW is the worst secondary now tho lol. The delay was too much.

What are these numbers representing exactly? Are you trying to tell me a single bullet from the HKMP5 does double the damage of the desert eagles shot? Obviously speed takes a HUGE hand in the damage done so those numbers are kind of meaningless. Also what are these clan wars you have had where everyone uses MP5s? Ive been playing 1.3 since release and although spas users and mp5 users were frequent on public servers for the first few hours, everything has balanced out since then and im now seeing a wide variety of weapons in the field.

The autos ARE NOT as powerfull as they were in 1.2.1, dont even try to argue that. In 1.2.1 I used the AK47 frequently and the first weapon I ever "mastered" was the MP5. Eventually I stopped using these weapons because I felt cheap playing with them. But now thanks to bink they are much more reasonable, I can no longer gun down two full health soldats in one clip of the MP5 with out a great deal more skill and strat.

The ruger and Eagles took a hit but it was much deserved, these guns dominated death match next to the ridiculous autos. The eagles, the ruger and the autos now take much more skill increasing the balance and fun level of the game, and I couldnt be happier, because now I feel like im really mastering a weapon instead of using a strong weapon as a cruch.

Well, Im still seeing very limited use of weapons - they were fine the way they were. Deagles and Rugers dominated DM's because as a "Deagler" And "Ruger-tard" with good aim and good movements, your invincible. Now with these weapons weakened, You lose 1 key defense: Your offense.

To the people saying deagles are overpowered once again, pick them up and use them yourself. It takes quite a bit of practice to be able to master your aim - it did for me anyways. Ive tried using every weapon there is and won dm's using each - its not hard. The only things needing upgrading was the spas which i have to dump my deagles to use the spas for because deagles suck now, and the ruger and m79's reload time. Everything else was fine the way it was. If you cant face up to a deagler, "ruger-tard" or an auto user in a dm, then a little more practice of skill might be needed.

quote:[i]i have to dump my deagles to use the spas for because deagles suck now


Naw I started using them in 1.3, I think they are still a great gun. You have to use the speed increase of the shots to your advantage meaning you have to speed up your entire game really.

the b2b top was not modified, also theres not more jet. Mustve been other changes that caused m79 boosting to be more powerful now.

quote:Originally posted by VendettaWhat are these numbers representing exactly? Are you trying to tell me a single bullet from the HKMP5 does double the damage of the desert eagles shot? Obviously speed takes a HUGE hand in the damage done so those numbers are kind of meaningless. Also what are these clan wars you have had where everyone uses MP5s? Ive been playing 1.3 since release and although spas users and mp5 users were frequent on public servers for the first few hours, everything has balanced out since then and im now seeing a wide variety of weapons in the field.

The autos ARE NOT as powerfull as they were in 1.2.1, dont even try to argue that. In 1.2.1 I used the AK47 frequently and the first weapon I ever "mastered" was the MP5. Eventually I stopped using these weapons because I felt cheap playing with them. But now thanks to bink they are much more reasonable, I can no longer gun down two full health soldats in one clip of the MP5 with out a great deal more skill and strat.

The ruger and Eagles took a hit but it was much deserved, these guns dominated death match next to the ridiculous autos. The eagles, the ruger and the autos now take much more skill increasing the balance and fun level of the game, and I couldnt be happier, because now I feel like im really mastering a weapon instead of using a strong weapon as a cruch.


With this you mean.. you know better weapon balance than i do?

About it we can argue..

Read my whole post, "Damage/s"

Amount of average damage you can make in second.

Also, read all my posts to find out what i am meaning.

hmm, seems like mp5 and ruger are nerfed! :0
and the amouns arent so high, self bink just makes it worse, 2 mp5 with selfbink = Everything dies which is infornt of yuou......

But, still: Wheres the semi-autos > autos > barretts > semi-auots -idea on 1.3? :/


-----

" the b2b top was not modified, also theres not more jet. Mustve been other changes that caused m79 boosting to be more powerful now."

hmm, i think B2b was on list of modified maps... So, that allows ecf to go to the top, just kill himself, get the flag, kill, get the flag, kill..
and no one will know wtf is he doing..

I agree that mp5 is too strong now. It kills REALLY fast and has the least self-bink. I'd really suggest nerfing it a bit. I think Spas is good enough though. Ruger should be nerfed as well (if not damage, fire interval at least).

Overall, I think the balance is very good now though.

You people seem to think the MP5 works long range? No it doesnt, try playing a mini user with an MP5 on a bigger map. Unless your close or he sucks bad you dont have a chance, same kind of thing as the shotgun.

All the guns aside from the Barret, and Shot-gun (thanks to kick-back) do less damage than they did in 1.2.1 The Aug is less powerfull, the AK is less powerfull, the ruger is less powerfull, all the guns aside from the Barret and shotty are less powerfull. None of the guns you mentioned are more powerfull.

The balance now is near perfect IMO.

Well I hate to say it but I agree with everything the topic starter said (aside from his MM and beta tester verbal attack)I LOVE the autos now and all the autos BINK? SO WHAT they are so much more effective now youd be dumb not to use em. What everyone forgot is SPEED = POWER and the autos have both. You pick up any auto and you can kill more then 1 person im pretty sure with 1 clip! Deagles and Ruger weapons I sorta used a lot in 1.2.1 their power was very well deserved because you cant just aim wildly and spray with em following a line you had to aim and take your time to make sure you hit and for that it paid off in power. Most deagle and ruger users I see now do very bad in K;D ratio and I dont wanna hear oh how can you possibly know its new 4-5 days yadda yadda.. Anyway I dont even care to talk about this anymore and this post was in no way meant to be disrespectful to neither MM nor the beta testers just want to thank you guys for turning me into an auto lover and congrats on a kick ass job with 1.3

Everyone whining put down your pos deagles and ruger which wasnt the majority of you in the 1st place and be like everyone else try those autos youll love em and since your already use to have to stop firing for aim just shoot the auto properly let off the fire button for 1 second out of every 2.5 - 3 seconds, youll be just as if not MORE effective then you were with them click fire click fire crap weapons.


Weapon balance should be based upon Speed, Power, Reload time, Shots per clip, and lost but not least difficulty level.

Gameover, you need more practice with the ruger/deagle before you write them off as crap. The new weapon balance calls for different strat thats all, for example the deagles take more hits now, however it has a faster fire rate. Use this to your advantage and plug them with 2 shots instead of one.

Well, i could do well with mp5, But, i dont just like when in clanwar there is 6 people stigin with 4 mp4's and maybe 2 Ak's..

Think about it, just shoot shoot and shoot, you cant rogonize your own bullets, you cant aim well, it goes to blindshooting...

Ah well, I'm using ak, and I have no trouble in using it as a "clickclick" weapon, I think I have even more accuracy than before when I'm using it that way. I like new balance, people just have to get used to it, I think.

Soon even you will be sticking with Mp5 :|

b2b has been modified, look at the hole in the middle... About the weapons, all that I think are fecked up are mp5 and law... All others seem to be just fine.

*sigh* Im KIND of getting used to the new weapon balance, i still hate it and would rather some weapons be left alone, but being the stubborn deagler I am i guess im making progress. I won two 2v1 ctf's, me being the "1", but i did horrible in a cw today, my first ever on 1.3 which was the first cw ive ever been in and lost...well...it was one of the few ive been in, and considering we lost horribly, just blah..

The only way this benefits me is that people will look at deaglers as ALOT more skilled then in 1.2.1 although it took enough skill as it is, and barretards will be even more noobish then they were in 1.2.1. If you think about it, Barretards benefited from all of this 100% and are probably the people calling this game balanced. All MM did was make it even more easier for the already easy to use barret to kill and survive, and give anyone else facing a barretard from 65% to 45% chance of killing them if they're any good.

For the record, MP5 was exceptionally powerful in 1.2.1. Not many people acknowledged it, as the mp5 could only top every other auto when at close quarters. The other autos held more superiority at range though.

Anyone who feared the dreaded minimi in 1.2.1, all you had to do was whip out a MP5 and get in close. You'd lose a little health but they'd be dead before you.


This has effectively unchanged. MP5 is a decent weapon, but only holds decent supremity at close range. Even at half a screens distance with the Mp5's innaccuracy, and now with self-bink, I can get a few ruger shots in and have him dead so long as I don't dance too close.

If you're a good player, you'll master your aim and be able to adjust to these difficulties. This is not a version for wussies.

Playing around a lot withe the mp5 last night I think everyones over rateing the thing.. 1 full clip will get you 1 to 2 kills tops so its not overpowered I as well as everyone else is just wrong.. To test my theory I went up against 2 people of my skill level one who used the deagles other the ruger in a DM while I used the mp5. When all was said and done we all finished very close around the 1;1 ratio. The mp5 has got to be the lousyest mid-long range weapon out and that will hurt you..

Those numbers are wack. Youre saying a socom does twice as much damage per second as the deagles? That seems retarded.


The mp5 and the other autos were already tough to use compared to barret, ruger, deagles, m79.... bink was not needed.

quote:Originally posted by GAMEOVERPlaying around a lot withe the mp5 last night I think everyones over rateing the thing.. 1 full clip will get you 1 to 2 kills tops so its not overpowered I as well as everyone else is just wrong.. To test my theory I went up against 2 people of my skill level one who used the deagles other the ruger in a DM while I used the mp5. When all was said and done we all finished very close around the 1;1 ratio. The mp5 has got to be the lousyest mid-long range weapon out and that will hurt you..


...

Sure it does 1-2 kills with a clip, so does ak, so u think that weapon balance it ok?

Think about the speed which Mp5 uses to kill, compare to Ak, Deagles, Ruger... Then tell me were you right or not. :I

Why to use Deagles instead of Mp5?

I been using the mp5 a lot and the deagles just as a quick 2 weapon comparison, a good deagle shooter can kill an mp5 user faster.. ive done it many times already, aim for the head and let off 3 shots before they unload their whole clip.. if I were to change anything id make the deagles just a LITTLE bit stronger only because they deserve it as well as the ruger for being the harder weapons to use. Lets face it taking mouse click shots that have to constantly change direction as the enemy moves is harder then shooting any auto in bursts so what little ruger and deagles power advantaged had was very well deserved.

If I were MM I wouldnt have implemented self bink at all (not that its a bad idea) but instead all autos would not be fully automatic they'd be whats called burst fire (where itll shoot in bursts) and/or give the ruger and deagles a .3 second (or around there) stun effect for every shot.

quote:I agree that mp5 is too strong now. It kills REALLY fast and has the least self-bink. I'd really suggest nerfing it a bit. I think Spas is good enough though. Ruger should be nerfed as well (if not damage, fire interval at least).
Overall, I think the balance is very good now though.

Yes,its perfect now, i dont see any point changing on whats already done.

The ruger has been nerfed enough...its powerful because the person holding it has a good shot. HK is strong enough after taking some damage by the nerf.

Anyways, GO is right - its more difficult to use the single shot weapons because its all about pure accuracy and hitting them at a consistant rate. Desert Eagles were decently inaccurate so extra acccuracy was required to make far off shots, which now the reward for making long distance shots, is 1 more extra hit to kill (4). I mean, they arent that hard, but how often do you see deaglers high in the sky picking people off 3 shots in a row from across the screen - which now was upped to 4 unless you manage 3 head shots. The ruger, I have to admit had too quick of a reload time - its quite accurate and packed a punch, although i had no problem with the way it was before and disagree to nerfing it like they did.

I think that balance is fine. I use all guns and if you're good enough, there really should be no major advantage of a particular weapon over the other.

claw your calculations suck balls, and the mp5 is overpowered to everyone saying its not, short or long range, your comparing it to weapons like ruger and deagles, why dont you compare it with other autos like the steyr aug.

big whoop if mp5 is short ranged, just get close, it doesn't require that much more skill....

I find weapon balance to work out alright myself. I mainly use ruger, and the changes to it by no means cripple it--if anything using it is more interesting now. DEagles seem to have fallen behind ruger in usefulness, but that could just be because ruger has been my main for some time, and thus it's going to be better.
The autos I never saw any real problem with, but that doesn't mean they're worse off with binking. All it takes there is a small adjustment in use, bursting shots instead of unloading a stream of lead. MP5 is not overpowered, as not exactly everyone and their dog can use the thing very well at all from farther than short range, although I have seen use of the AK and Steyr decrease... Minimi is still king of longe-range killage.
Only thing that has really been irking me is getting constantly killed by the M79, but it's probably just a flaw with my own performance that's causing that.

All in all, I can't say the 1.3 changes were really needed all that much, considering that if you take away the guns that people complained about (autos, DEs, and ruger), what you had left was... Spas, Barret, and M79, pretty much, the three of which were able to hold their own well enough in my opinion. Not to say the changes in 1.3 are bad by any means though.

quote:Originally posted by m00`claw your calculations suck balls, and the mp5 is overpowered to everyone saying its not, short or long range, your comparing it to weapons like ruger and deagles, why dont you compare it with other autos like the steyr aug.

big whoop if mp5 is short ranged, just get close, it doesn't require that much more skill....


Alright, you try killing someone with an HK from 3/4th screen distance or farther. Its impossible, because the bink terribly ruins its range and the bullets dont reach - The best way to fight an hker is to take him out asap, stay away or counter him with another effective close ranged weapon.

The HK and chainsaw in terms of distance required are not much different - chainsaw just needs to be a little closer and cant fire bullets.

look, the f*cken distance doesn't matter, if your having trouble with distance, its not that hard to get close, and the maps in soldat arn't usually open, they have polygons all over the place, you hardly ever have to worry about long range, i can kill with the mp5 as easy as pie, if you find long range a problem then you either suck or your trying to find an excuse not to nerf the mp5

Sheesh people like to whine alot. MP5 is weak enough, you might as well complain that the chainsaw is too powerful as well.

mp5 = weak? wtf, you seriously just suck then....

Ive begun to use it as my main weapon, and i already have 500 kills on my 3rd day. You really have some issues - its ONLY strong upclose, and crappy from afar...its an up close weapon, like the spas and the chainsaw.

Why do I argue with this moron - hes determined to complain until this topic is finally locked. If you want to complain about over powered weapons, just look at the m79 or barret.

Why doesnt an admin just lock this already...

If you really think you've found a perfect balance, host a server with it and see what it gives. If it's liked it will get known don't worry.

I think that in 1.3 balance has become better. Not perfect tough but it's difficult to make a perfect balance.

You can't make a perfect balance by just calculating with some numbers, it's more complex then that.

doh this is just uber whine :S
i see no weapons which are overpowered. there is always a way to deal with every weapon
weapon balance is way better than the last one

well, play against 3x Mp5 and you can see it :|

And GAMEOVER, i see you use Mp5 by yourself, create topics like "Mp5 is not overpowered", scared? :0

get over your obsession with me :/ look at my u13 stats i have 3 or 4 weapons that you can clearly see I use a lot and scared of what?? you? rofl..

It is weird that you tell me facts about soldat, even i have played like 24 times more than you =o


well... 30% of kills with Mp5... then Deagles (from 1.2.1.. i think)..

And also, i saw you playing... ..with mp5 all the time :I

deagles ruger knife mp5 i use those 4 the most my game name is GAMEOVER{SL} check u13 east stats to see for yourself.

deagles ruger knife mp5 i use those 4 the most my game name is GAMEOVER check u13 east stats to see for yourself.

I know that, i have cheked them, to tell something, look at the stats of these players: NF|T5.GreenBall, NF|GreenBall, NF|Clawbug, NF|Claw, -[AtS]- Claw, Radio, lamer, SPASMAN!, Xackaz .... and see weapons... :|

Stick to the topic?

mp5, spaas damage irreal this version...

quote:irreal

irreal? Yes mp5 is overpowerd.

I like to think of it as most other weapons being underpowered...m79 is also a little overpowerful with that reload, and the disadvantage of other weapons makes barret way too useful.

I love it when people say if you miss you die...

God, of course the weapon balance isnt perfect and it might not be for a while.

Stop blaming your personal incompetence on the balance. "Boohoo the barret/m79 meanie shot me and I'm dead." We had an 1.2.1, with bink; you just have to shoot first.

Offtopic: You can shoot all you want...your dead when they decide to click on you..its more like um...YOUR dead if you miss not the barretard or m79er, and with weakened guns except for theres they have an even better chance of killing you easily.

Im getting tired of them..

Automatics rip apart barret people. You can't say the barret is overpowered.

The balance seems to be perfect atm. Overpowered mp5?... u r joking right?

quote:Originally posted by Stereokinetic PhenomenonThe balance seems to be perfect atm. Overpowered mp5?... u r joking right?


I guess you've missed the plenty of topics that were posted on it.

Heh, i have teh 1337 weapons mod! Barret has no reload time! ruger has a 200 ammo clip and no fire interval! m79 unloads a clip of 30 grenades per second! minigun firess instakill shotgun bullets and has no reload or startup time! Spas is INSTAKILLL. Deagles fire rockets that are also instakill. MP5 is INSTAKILL. Minimi fires normal grenades like a minelayer that also INSTAKILLS. chainsaw is a harakiri package : fire to detonate.

when ppl say the weapons are unbalanced, just turn em all up to instakill...

Well I took a break and came back to soldat 1.3... Now everyone is using the mp5 in deathmatch :| Oh well.

i totaly agree...

Yay for weapon balance!