Hey everyone, now that the bashing of 1.3 has died down and the law isnt such a hot topic, I thought Id bring up some of my concern on the balancing of the secondary weapons. In the last version of soldat the main secondary weapons I saw used were the knife, socom and law (the saw was broken so I can understand people skipping it).

In this version I have noticed the law and socom use has dropped, the law is now hard to get quick kills with thanks to the start up time and I never see anyone using it. The SOCOM damage was nerfed and the saw was fixed. All of these were good fixes, but wait? What about the knife? The knife is all I see used really, aside from a few socom users. It's as if all the good secondary weapons were nerfed a bit and the knife stayed the same, I can see why people are flocking to it now.

I suggest that the knife is nerfed down to the level of the other secondary weapons, give it some bink like all the other one-hit kills I think thats more than fair. Also it needs some start up time before it throws, it's ridiculous getting in close to a player and unloading on him, and he kills you faster by switching weapons and pressing f.

I know you guys are going to say I should just get better, but thats really not the problem here. The knife has a huge advantage compared to the other secondary weapons, ive even used it as a primary and done pritty well (on a public server mind you).

Now theres the issue of the chainsaw, it gets neglected like a brunette barbie. I suggest that the chainsaw gets a lunge attack, one that can only be used from the ground like the law. It wont have nearly the range of a knife throw but it will be an aimable jump making the chainsaw much more useable. Heres a few images I made up to help illastrate my idea;
This shows the area of attack and the range of the lunge
[IMAGE]
This gives you an example of the lunge being used
[IMAGE]
Heres a picture that lets you contrast the knifes range compared to the saw lunge.
[IMAGE]

Now in theory you could use jets after the lunge and continue to fly in the direction you originaly jumped in, I feel this is balanced because not only do soldats move slow in the air, but the attack only can be done while on the ground.

What do you guys think?

I like this idea, but chainsaw matches are probably the funnest thing to do right now, cause i jsut got done playing one with a few other ppl.

The chainsaw is rejected alot, yes. Maybe this would help. I'm in favor of this. All we have now is go prone in the air and superman at someone haha

Interesting...MM did make the chainsaw a whole lot better but...i find myself passing though a person like 3 times before they die -_-

Mr. Angry I think thats probably lag your getting (im getting it alot in this version too). It's also the reason your knife hits arent regestering. I think less servers are using ping restrictions or something.

Chainsaw can actually be as deadly as any primary. You just have to know how to maneuver.

i would like to see the chainsaw dropp and fall down and then kill someone

For the first time lately I've been using the chainsaw seriously, It's actually better than I thought. I think now in close quarters map I'll use chainsaw rather than my regular LAW.
I'm not sure how a lunge could work, as in the keys used, but it does not sound like a bad idea.
For making the chainsaw better, I think it would be good if the chainsaw was deadly while rolling. Right now you can use it while rolling but I don't think it causes any damage (no "ammo" is used either).

As a vivid socom user, I finds the self bink of it a bit too much. I used to use the socom as my primary and the barret or ruger for long range shots. Now, i'm using the ruger as the primary and chainsaw for close up work.

Running around with the chainsaw alot these days, I find by experiance that something like this suggestion would really help. The chainsaw is quite limited in tactics and adding a special feature would expand it's capabilities.

Edit: Shouldn't this be in the Suggestions?

Woah.. if chainsaw had a lunge that would be so f-cking cool. I approve of this.

Glad you guys agree with me on the lunge idea (although im sure someone else has suggested it before). Ill confess my secondary is the saw, so I do have a bias :p but I still think it's a pritty balanced idea.

I agree, that's a good idea. Would make the chainsaw much more useful. It's rarely used as it is. People either favor knife or LAW.

That may prevent campage, cos people would reveal themselves

Hey vendetta, we just got done playing not too long ago.
I like the idea of a lunge attack, but how quick would the lunge be?
As for the secondary weapons, what if another one was added?
I like the idea of having c4 plastique expolsive. It be obvious to see if you were looking for it, but it could pack a deadly punch. A nade sized explosion and you get only one a spawn, unless someone drops theirs.

I'd guess it would be as quick as balanced it.

"it needs some start up time before it throws"

I agree 100%, because really, who can throw a knife instantly in real life, you have to kinda 'wind up' like a pitcher.

"the knife has a huge advantage compared to the other secondary weapons"

Yes it does.

i use LAW, Socom, and Chainsaw myself.

quote:Originally posted by reckonHey vendetta, we just got done playing not too long ago.
I like the idea of a lunge attack, but how quick would the lunge be?
As for the secondary weapons, what if another one was added?
I like the idea of having c4 plastique expolsive. It be obvious to see if you were looking for it, but it could pack a deadly punch. A nade sized explosion and you get only one a spawn, unless someone drops theirs.


I was having a few thoughts after the post, I figured the lunge could be activated just by pressing "w" while on the ground. Instead of a normal jump you would jump in the direction your curser was aimed. The jump would be the same speed and distance of a regular jump but you could aim it.

My alternative idea was that you could have a faster, longer range jump. The difference here is that you would need to be crouched with the saw, then click the left mouse button to do the saw leap. You wouldnt be able to be running while doing the attack or anything, but the leap would be much longer and faster than a normal jump.

Reckon what gun were you using in the game? Thats usualy how I remember people :P

mp5/knife combo, you were using desert eagles.

quote:Originally posted by reckonmp5/knife combo, you were using desert eagles.

Ah I see, yeah I try and use the eagles mostly but I suck badly with them in even a little bit of lag.

I don't get the logic of using your chainsaw to jump further, altough with all the knifing lately I think it would be fair if the knife gets a startuptime as happy camper mentioned. To make the chainsaw more balanced these ideas make more sense to me :

quote:i would like to see the chainsaw dropp and fall down and then kill someone
quote:For making the chainsaw better, I think it would be good if the chainsaw was deadly while rolling

Knife is imho ok, no need to nerf it.

I think the balance of secondary weapons isn't in improving the weaker ones, but weakening the stronger. (which is knife, at the moment) The Chainsaw lunge attack would be cool.. but do you want every second person running around in a public server with it? In the right hands, it's already lethal.
How about animations not stopping saw from shooting? That way the Backflip, roll and prone would all turn into deadly moves, since you'd do damage while changing your stance, which would give the chainsaw real power.

Lunge attack...interesting. I had the idea of making it possible to "throw" the chainsaw like you could a knife, except it will definetly not have the range of a knife. Considering a chainsaw is probably alot more heavier then a knife could ever be, the range will be very short and slow, so throwing at a person below you would require considerable timing.

Along with the rolling idea, maybe you can set it up like a rolling ball of death, where if you roll or backflip, the soldat turns into sonic the hedgehog without the hedgehog part for a moment, damaging or killing anyone who happens to be rolled upon or flies into the backflip.

Knives are fine imho. Not easy to use, doesnt kill 20% of the time, i think they should be left alone. Law is hard as it is, socom is practicly like an auto with its reload, but the poor chainsaw has been left neglected. Fix it i say fix it!

(moved from General Discussions to Game Suggestions)

The idea of lunging is a bit.... Halo2-ish, don't you think?

Although i am not agaist it. I think the chainsaw could use a tuning up in terms of kill distance. Make it's death radius slightly further out, and i'll be happy.

Some other good ideas in the thread are having the saw always work with animations, that should happen anyway IMO but its still a good idea. The saw could still be out durring the roll and spin all the way around the soldat as he rolls or does a backflip, that would be sweet too.

I agree that the saw should still be useable during the Roll, and Backflip animations.

But i heard that MM is still learning as he goes, as far as making soldat, so maybe he has just not found a way to do it just yet.

I like this idea. Its either this or the "deflect slow bullets" idea, and I like them both. Although deflecting stuff is fancier ;)

Do everything in this thread, and give it 100 ammo again!!11111

quote:Originally posted by Officer_BulbockI like this idea. Its either this or the "deflect slow bullets" idea, and I like them both. Although deflecting stuff is fancier ;)


i think just the Deflecting, and making it work during animations would make me happy, no need for a lunge really if we get thos two things.

Deflecting bullets with a chainsaw is a laughable idea.

But yeah an omnidirectional lunge attack would be pretty cool... I think it should automatically make you perform a long jump in a proned position (though the animation for the prone should reflect the direction you launch yourself in).

And the ability to attack during soldier animations is also a good idea.

I've been using the chainsaw more than the knife now. Chainsawing is an art, a lunge attack doesn't have to be made, you can do that by using prone and jetpack. I can get a good number of kills by doing this in mid air against flying snipers.

I agree that the knife should have a few seconds charge up. Maybe even just one second would do though.

quote:Originally posted by YoMammasMammaChainsaw can actually be as deadly as any primary. You just have to know how to maneuver.


he's right, but it has become weaker, and it usually doesn't kill when you run by them.

Also, if the lunge hits someone right away, it should do more damage, because the chain would still be spinning.
What if it hit you from a phenomenal height, the weight, or speed of the blade, should kill you.

The chainsaw is actually stronger than in 1.2.1, since the range and ammo was increased. The problem now is that the hits frequently fail to register ><

Lunge would be kinda fun, and definitely useful for attacking on the ground. I'd rather have it hit during animations though..

The Lunge Attack sounds pretty cool. I've also thought of something like a special attack for the chainsaw, but I didn't come up with anything. I really don't like that the chainsaw can only be used seriously in fun matches, but can't compete with the other secondaries. But I guess the idea still needs some thinking. Because with this attack, anyone using chainsaw would try to do that attack as often as possible. So if anyone sees someone else taking out his chainsaw, he would just take off with the jets and kill the chainsaw'er, I guess. But still, nice idea..
For the knife, I've also said all I would say about it here in my topic. I think the grenade-like charge-up-time would be the best idea given so far, and it would make the knife be on the same level like law and socom. Because it's just like you said. The Socom got nerfed, the LAW got heavily nerfed, but the knife? It didn't change. But now the Socom and LAW finally are real SECONDARIES. Knife isn't though, and that's just not right.. But a bink would be pretty useless. Knife is mostly used by taking it out and instantly throwing it away, bink wouldn't have any effect in this very short time. And if you mean a startup time like the LAW has (besides the Fire-Delay) this would only solve the problem of spawnkilling. People could still just use the knife when spawning, wait until the startup time is over and go on, just like it's usually done with LAW. But if you mean a delay like the LAW has, then that's also a good idea. Though I think making it be throwable like a grenade would make it more fair. But definately SOMETHING has to be changed.

Misterx you make some good points, however the chainsaw would still be usable with out doing the jump the same way it is now. I dont think the lunge would be useless, how-ever the more I think about it the more I like the idea of a big leap from crouch that would have to be reloaded. This version is still very playable and my knife gripe isnt a big deal, it would something id like to see changed in the next version just the same.