Anyone who's played the new version is familiar with auto-bink, which causes automatic weapons to become increasingly inaccurate when fired in long bursts, and is indicated by increasing size of the aim reticle. Auto-bink, though similar in effect, is not to be confused with earlier iterations of bink, such as that which makes the Barret wildly inaccurate when its user is being shot.

Recoil is only present in Realistic Mode and affects all guns to one degree or another. When the gun is fired, the aim reticle jerks upward. With automatic weapons, the longer the burst, the more recoil each shot causes. Thus the first shot in a burst barely affects aim at all, the second more severely and so on. Releasing the trigger instantly (I believe) restores the weapon's stability.

For automatic weapons, both of these features serve exactly the same purpose -- to keep players from unloading an entire MP5/AK-74/AUG/Minimi clip in a single burst while maintaining perfect accuracy.

So -- why have both? Why didn't Michal simply introduce recoil to normal mode rather than add a new and redundant feature? Doesn't straightforward recoil make more sense than random inaccuracy, anyway? And, finally, does it really make sense to have both acting simultaneously in Realistic Mode? (not that many people will care about the last question)

I would really like to see true recoil acting upon automatic weapons in normal mode. The utter randomness of auto-bink gives skilled players nothing to build upon, while recoil, though an impediment to auto-spraying, allows for such possiblities as "walking" a stream of bullets across an ascending target. Basically, it keeps spraying to a minimum while rewarding players for learning each weapon's particular strength of recoil.

no. keep self bink, recoil is for real mode

^^ That sort of kneejerk response is the only reason I can imagine for Michal creating auto-bink rather than bringing over recoil. People would get upset about normal mode getting "too realistic" if recoil were added, even though auto-bink is just recoil's retarded sibling. But an unfamiliar feature like auto-bink doesn't set off that kind of alarm.

I don't think there should be any self-bink personally. But whatever, I don't really care.

Auto-bink on barret I think is a good idea, though. Requires a barreteer to be a little faster.

The option of recoil was logically put forward to Michal during beta, into which he took it into consideration.

He quite simply said "no I don't like it."

yah recoil in normal mode, is too much of a step further, it would RUIN normal mode as we know it, self bink is less noticable

No, you'd be a sprayer for daring to question it, and would have to get used to it.

Its a good idea, but there are to many loud whiners

i like the way it is now. it makes it nice and balanced

Minigun sucks and lags now even more because of autobink.

quote:Originally posted by KarvinenMinigun sucks and lags now even more because of autobink.


You know that it only lags your machine, because it can't handle drawing so many particles?

Gee...People still isnt happy. They already nerfed the autos in speed, power and stability. Now they want the recoil too.
Hey, I got an idea! Lets raise the power of the deagles to two hit kills with more speed and accuracy, the ruger more speed and the barret with a shorter delay. Oh yeah then we should make a slower delay with the autos, lower the damage adn increase the self bink and add in a recoil.

quote:They already nerfed the autos in speed, power and stability. Now they want the recoil too. Actually, replacing auto-bink with recoil would improve automatics, as I explained in the first post.

quote:Originally posted by F3nyxquote:They already nerfed the autos in speed, power and stability. Now they want the recoil too. Actually, replacing auto-bink with recoil would improve automatics, as I explained in the first post.


Exactly why we have auto bink and not recoil.

Auto-bink on Barrett is outright useless because the Barrett needs too long between shots for the barretard to actually care about him being binked.

quote:Originally posted by F3nyxI would really like to see true recoil acting upon automatic weapons in normal mode. The utter randomness of auto-bink gives skilled players nothing to build upon, while recoil, though an impediment to auto-spraying, allows for such possiblities as "walking" a stream of bullets across an ascending target. Basically, it keeps spraying to a minimum while rewarding players for learning each weapon's particular strength of recoil.


YES. This is partly why I love Real Mode.
A mtliplayer game should be about skill as much as possible; moving up is a recognizable pattern and therefore something that can be mastered. Random weapon-waving can't be mastered, and so it's basically just there so people don't be tards. How bout having the best of both worlds, and emulating the Real Mode recoil?

They are different and you can feel the difference. Leave as is and accept it.

Minigun = lag...

Ok, here's how you play soldat 1.3:

Choose a weapon.

Play it in realistic until you realise that you can't empty an entire clip. Alternatively, attack electronic shockers that are programmed to electrocute u if you fire more than three bullets without a pause.

Switch of realistic and voila, you know how to avoid self bink, or you know how to avoid self bink but you have burn marks all over your arms.

117 -- I think you misunderstand. I don't have fire discipline problems, I'm quite good at firing in short bursts. I just want to eliminate a redundancy.

Mickle -- of course they're different, I spent some time explaining exactly how. But they serve exactly the same purpose and they aren't both needed.

Moose -- thanks for understanding :(

I like this idea. Auto-bink feels like a random disturbance when you're firing, but with recoil you have a feel of what's going to happen.

Well, when you look at it there is quite a large difference between recoil and self-bink. For one, recoil has an immediate effect on the weapon (right from the first shot) while self-bink usually takes a few shots before starts to take effect. Secondly, recoil affects the bullet much more than self-bink does.

Bringing a recoiled automatic into realistic mode would completely obliterate it. However, you do make an interesting point. If we were to basically modify the amount of recoil from realistic mode to fit normal mode ... It would be a risky call, though, as many players, mostly veterans, are crapping their pants shouting things like "WHY TEH HELL DID U BRING RECOIL INTO NORMAL MODE I QUIT".

I don't understand what you mean by recoil and self-bink serving the same purpose, though. Self-bink is there to even autos out with the rest of the weapons, while recoil is there to make the game more realistic, give you a hard time with shooting, and piss you off when you shoot a ruger bullet because your cursor goes way off and you can't see anyone that may be charging at you from your side. :P I don't really see all weapons having a modified recoil in normal mode because that would just ruin it. However, if you're talking about replacing self-bink with recoil, then it wouldn't be such a bad idea (not that it's a horrid one; it's just a figure of speech, I suppose), as long as it serves the same purpose as self-bink.

Edit: Also, I agree with you on the topic of both self-bink and recoil bein in effect in realistic mode.

I don't believe it, im actually getting better in realistic mode. Must be the taser.

Can a chainsaw actually recoil?

if we brought recoil into normal mode, it would defeat the purpose of realistic mode?

Maybe soldat is training us for other games, by teaching us that firing too much will get u punished.

The one thing i can't get across is ruger recoil, how does one control it?

Honestly, if i had to choose, i would pick recoil over self bink, makes the game feel realistic.

quote:I don't understand what you mean by recoil and self-bink serving the same purpose, though. Self-bink is there to even autos out with the rest of the weapons, while recoil is there to make the game more realistic, give you a hard time with shooting, and piss you off when you shoot a ruger bullet because your cursor goes way off and you can't see anyone that may be charging at you from your side. :P I don't really see all weapons having a modified recoil in normal mode because that would just ruin it.Whoops, I was overgeneralizing a little. I'm ONLY talking about automatics here, which I should make clear before I make that kind of assertion. What I meant was that auto-bink is basically random recoil for automatics, which is not what I actually said. Oops.

I wouldn't really mind if recoil were applied to all weapons in normal mode. BUT -- that's not a position that's even worth advocating. All I'm talking about here is replacing auto-bink with recoil for automatics. Non-automatic weapons would be left untouched.

Then I don't see a problem at all with this idea. I don't think it would have any effect. However, there are two methods of implementing this idea:

1) Eliminate self-bink, transfer recoil over from realistic mode for automatics only and tone it down a bit. This would mean that self-bink as we know it now would effect the bullets right from the first one.
2) Tweak self-bink so that it works just like recoil except that it gets activated after a few shots, just like self-bink does now, and call it recoil.

I prefer the second, just because people are already getting used to self-bink, so changing it again would cause more chaos. The only worry I have about this is that, like I said before, some people might start whining because recoil was implemented in normal mode. <_<

Or we could just quote my previous post here and mention that Michal was apposed to the idea of recoil!

OR WE COULD JUST BE n00bs and skip the entire thing and make every weap have 10 times more ammo than the minigun and a fireinterval of 1 lololololololol....
Now that i think of it, your second idea is like realistic mode, it only kicks in after a certain number of shots/

And now I have to put up the question of...
WHY?Seriously, what's wrong with the current system?

As I said before:
quote:The utter randomness of auto-bink gives skilled players nothing to build upon, while recoil, though an impediment to auto-spraying, allows for such possiblities as "walking" a stream of bullets across an ascending target. Basically, it keeps spraying to a minimum while rewarding players for learning each weapon's particular strength of recoil.

It's not that the present system is fatally flawed, it's quite an improvement in fact. But it's not the best solution.

Chakra: yeah, that does kind of put a damper on the argument, but it's still worth discussing IMO. When the idea of recoil was brought up to MM during beta testing, was it recoil for ALL guns or recoil for autos only?

I don't think what guns it was thought to be put to was illustrated. It basically spawned with
"hey what if we add recoil? that'd solve the auto spray problem."

Then it wandered to "well what if we do something different, like your crosshair doesn't move, but your aim goes bad after spraying too long?"

Which eventually gave Michal the idea of Self Bink, after he said "recoil? hmm, no. That wouldn't work."



Michal said he was hoping the beta forums would be made public, but not postable in. Just so people could have a laugh and see what we went through. Hey b00sta, we gonna do that?