While getting a bit anoyed about those very close mid-air knife-kills one idea flashed into my mind: What if the knife's damage would somehow be determined by the distance it was thrown over? This wouldn't have to be very big damage-difference, but at least so that you won't be able to kill an enemy at full health by just throwing the knife at him while standing right next to him. This would be a solution for killing with knife right when spawning, as well as one for those mentioned mid-air kills, wich I find do far too much damage for how easy they are.

So, thoughts?

[Edit]
Ok, I'm pretty sure that a charge-up time like LazehBoi suggested would be the best idea for balancing the knife:
quote:Originally posted by LazehBoi
[...]I think the power should be influenced by say... A charge up time. The longer you charge it up for, the faster the knife gets thrown. It could be thrown like a grenade that way.[...]

The knife damage is currently influenced by speed. I don't get why close attacks should do less damage?

Leave the knife alone. Please. Just... leave it alone. If you mess with the knife too much, I honestly think a large portion of Soldat players would stop playing.

nah... leave the knife. its great right now... michal already screwed up the machineguns (all of them) and i dont want the knife become useless : /

I like the knife the way it is but why would you want it to do less damage when you're closer? shouldn't it be more?

numgun, none of the autos were screwed up. Bursting isn't hard at all.

The autos were balanced - finally.
It was just an idea about the knife. Why it should do less damage when being really close to the enemy? 1. Spawnkilling. It's very anoying and in my opinion also unfair that when someone goes for the flag, for example on Run, an enemy spawns and instantly kills the enemy flagcarrier right when he is about to leave. He doesn't have a chance, since you're also invincible at first. This is only possible with knife, not even with Law it's possible anymore due to Startup-Time and Delay. 2. Mid-air kills. As I already said, in my opinion it's too easy killing people when they pass by in the air with knife. I'm a knifeuser myself, I like the knife, but still in my opinion it's a bit too strong with this big advantage in very close combat.

When you toss the knife, you lose it. That's the price you pay, and as aggravated as I get when I get killed over and over by knives, it's a fair enough one.

I honestly see no real big problem with knives being too strong... And I never use them.

quote:Originally posted by YoMammasMammaWhen you toss the knife, you lose it. That's the price you pay, and as aggravated as I get when I get killed over and over by knives, it's a fair enough one.

I honestly see no real big problem with knives being too strong... And I never use them.

In comparison to the other secondaries, I find it to be the most overpowered, but hey, that's me.
I think the power should be influenced by say... A charge up time. The longer you charge it up for, the faster the knife gets thrown. It could be thrown like a grenade that way.

Also, you can always pick the knife up again once you've thrown it, so taking out the enemy flag carrier when you've spawned doesn't mean losing it, and that is where it can be the most irritating.

I'm with LazehBoi. The chargeup time also sounds good. And yes, even if you lose the knife, you mostly don't have more than 1 enemy around at once, so you can always pick it up again. And you still have the primary, so that's not a problem. And yep, that's what I mean LazehBoi. Knife doesn't necessarily feel very overpowered or anything, buut compared to the other secs..

I like the knife because of the fact that its such a quick weapon, which is the way a knife should be. Quick and to the point.

Knifes are good backups. In a close fire situation and your ruger/auto/barret/minigun is reloading, the knife is the best solution if there's nothing else. I mean, in tunnels where its very close quarters, the knife is great.

quote:Originally posted by YoMammasMammaWhen you toss the knife, you lose it. That's the price you pay, and as aggravated as I get when I get killed over and over by knives, it's a fair enough one.

I honestly see no real big problem with knives being too strong... And I never use them.


Amen, just leave it alone.

The knife is fine. You deserve to get killed if you let a knife-wielding opponent get that close to you. A SPAS+nade combo should deter any knifers.

Bad idea. the knife is fine now.

Thanks F3nyx, at least you wrote something to reason your opinion. "It's fine, leave it the hell alone" isn't a really convincing argument :P And again. I don't find it very anoying or really overpowered, but just compared to the other secondaries, bla.

I'm with LazehBoi (or rather he is with me ^^).
The knife should be somewhat like grenades with throwing, so it won't be the most noob-friendly secondary (like it is now.)

The knife is good as it is. It's a knife for christ sakes.

I also believe the knife needs some tweaking. On maps like viet it happens loads of times that you can not even begin your escape because of a quick knife throw in your face.

The solution of LazehBoi sounds mighty fine to me. Bring the skills back to the knife! :)

I like that... Makes the knife require some amount of skill to use, but it isn't nerfed all the way to the Nerf football factorty.

quote:Originally posted by Keron Cystnumgun, none of the autos were screwed up. Bursting isn't hard at all.


bursting sucks i say... and u know it!
and i hope it becomes optional.

The autos are finally fine now. Perhaps AK needs a bit tweaking compared to Steyr, and MP5 might have to be slightly less strong if you ask me, but that's not the topic now.
About the knife again: Now that I've finally played a cw again, I'm totally sure that such a charge up time or something similiar HAS to be in the game. Now that Law got nerfed nearly everyone is using knife. Or how often do you see someone using Law? Or even Socom? Rarely, very rarely. The knife is more than a simple secondary that is a help if you are for example out of ammo now. In most situations, even when you're about to die, you can just change to the knife and easily kill the enemy. Especially throws from up to down are really easy. This charge up time would make knife need a lot more skill I guess, just like with the Law now. In 1.2.1 LAW was overpowered, but at least on publics not necessarily overused (in cws though), but this time it seems like the whole Soldat community changed to knife. Don't get me wrong, I'm generally far from being a knife-hater - I've used knife and nothing but knife as my secondary for a really long time now. But with this nice balance we got now, it's just over the top.

I use LAW & SOCOM more than I ever use Knife...

What happened to the chainsaw? Won't anyone think about the children? :(
Just kidding, probably not the best place to post...

Christ, the leave the knife the hell alone. We already raped the Law in the ass; I don't want to lose another secondary.

It's fine the way it is.

So you think knife is just as useful as Socom and LAW? Not perhaps a whole lot more or so? No? Btw, you say you don't wanna lose a secondary. Means you used LAW, and don't use it anymore now that it got balanced?
Anyway, look. Socom isn't well used as a primary. It's usefull for killing an enemy you've already hurt with another weapon. LAW also can't be used as a primary weapon, with the delay it's just too slow for that, doesn't mean it's not useful at all. But with knife, it's no problem to rush to the enemy and instantly kill it, or kill someone inbetween a firefight, no matter when, knife is almost anytime useful, like LAW used to be. Now that LAW isn't that useful anymore, why should the knife be? It's a SECONDARY weapon, it shouldn't be up with the primaries, but it nearly is.

No it isn't fine the way it is , it's getting more used then a lot of primaries.

In real life if you throw a knife it won't always hit your target with the edge of the knife...

Well, IRL grenades don't automatically detect that they've touched a human and explode, either.

quote:Originally posted by HitmanChrist, the leave the knife the hell alone. We already raped the Law in the ass; I don't want to lose another secondary.

They're secondaries for a reason. And LAW is fine.

No, that is what the knife is there for.

Knife is fine now. Knife is in fact a good COUNTER for spawn killing. When I spawn and someone tries to kill me, I'll just use my knife. Besides, it's a stupid idea and it makes no logic that throwing knife from CLOSE doesn't kill but throwing it from far does. Knife has a bad range when you compare it to socom and law and it takes the most skill and definitely shouldn't be nerfed in any way.

Guns are too easy to use too lets nerf them.

If it takes the most skill, why is everyone using it? It's not only good to counter spawnkilling but even better to spawnkill with. And read the edit dragonslayer

I think knife is OK the way it is.
and the idea with this "power-up-time" is pathetic, i mean i would stop play soldat if the knife will get this.
the law is already screwed!
So PLS let the knife be a knife!

That might be more difficult to implement, since all the other "power-up times" were just the "reload" rate; you'll notice that the M79 has a "power-up time" because you can only fire it that much. Of course if you just want to take the easy way out, if this is implemented then you won't be able to left-click and swing your knife half as rapidly as you can now...

god it's a knife if you dont like it don't use it if you keep getting killed by it YOU SUCK, DONT GET THAT CLOSE how RETARDED do you have to be to see a guy with a knife and run right up to him!
btw everything is easier to use at close range don't go picking on the knife just because someone pwned you!

quote:Originally posted by a-four-year-old
... DONT GET THAT CLOSE...

*steam vents*
*refrains from swearing*
I'll take it you just read the topic title and made some guesses on why the topic was started.

Spawnkillers come right next to you so you have no time to get away.

The knife is overpowered it does either 90% or 100% dmg and havn't seen it do dmg under that on me. When it did 90% dmg on me it hitted the fot at really low speed wich is more rediculus. It should only do full dmg when you come in with high speed. Knife can be thrown quite far and still kill. and then when knife has more dmg than m79 is ridiculus. Getting killed by knife doesn't meen you suck, like complaining about getting killed by m79.

Oh my dear, people don't realize: It's a GAME, just a friggin game, NOBODY cares about realism..

quote:Originally posted by a-4-year-oldgod it's a knife if you dont like it don't use it if you keep getting killed by it YOU SUCK, DONT GET THAT CLOSE how RETARDED do you have to be to see a guy with a knife and run right up to him!
btw everything is easier to use at close range don't go picking on the knife just because someone pwned you!

Your nick suits you well.

quote:Originally posted by Keron CystThat might be more difficult to implement, since all the other "power-up times" were just the "reload" rate; you'll notice that the M79 has a "power-up time" because you can only fire it that much. Of course if you just want to take the easy way out, if this is implemented then you won't be able to left-click and swing your knife half as rapidly as you can now...

I don't think it'd be hard to implement, since that's just the way the nades are already programmed.

""Oh my dear, people don't realize: It's a GAME, just a friggin game, NOBODY cares about realism..""

Then leave the knife how it is?


""mid-air kills wich I find do far too much damage for how easy they are.""

And the barret isnt easy to kill with..


""for example on Run, an enemy spawns and instantly kills the enemy flagcarrier right when he is about to leave. He doesn't have a chance, since you're also invincible at first. ""

yay someone with talent?



Like you said, it's only a game.

you people are just pissed that you suck. kick em spawners or knife em back, corse you are probably the people tryig to remove the kick vote because you where kicked because you where camping all game saying "it was strategic" than someone pwned you and your all "omg hax!!! time to complain in the forums" *typing* "someone killed me with a knife while /piss ing must change knife so they cant kill me" i hate people

quote:Originally posted by GeneralLeave the knife alone. Please. Just... leave it alone. If you mess with the knife too much, I honestly think a large portion of Soldat players would stop playing.

Exactly, the knife is perfect the way it is.

leave the knife alone and bring the law back and then we would get rid of atleast half the knifers

Thing is, the LAW is practically a long-range exploding knife that reloads (albeit slowly).

I dont really feel like I get killed with the knife too often. In fact, I dont mind being killed with a knife at all!

Just dont get too close to knifers- Stay on top of them- And maybe even knife them first, or kill them by other means.

I think the knife might be the type of weapon a lot of new players have issues with. You really have to watch out for knifers, and keep out of their way. For newbies, who have a hard time moving around the map quickly and staying above their enemies, the knife is probably extremely frustrating... But really, you get used to it!

It is similar to the barret. A lot of people dont understand that you have to use some smart tactics (and even sometimes just plain out avoid) barreters... But once you figure it out, it isnt too hard to avoid them. I sometimes wonder how many people know how much the AUG rocks the barret :-p I know that the barreters dont know, because they always try to snipe me while i have a stream of fire on them.

Well... Since the new path the AUG really hasnt been as useful against the barret. In fact, I'm starting to have problems with barreters again :-)

Still- Usually my most 'accepted' (aka, I dont jump up and down and scream 'bull (Please refrain from swearing)') deaths are via knife. A knife nerf would definitely see a temporary drop in player interest at least.

I can just picture us after a knife nerf talking about 'how fun it used to be'. I hate it when I have to think back and talk about how fun things used to be, it is really depressing.

quote:Originally posted by GeneralLeave the knife alone. Please. Just... leave it alone. If you mess with the knife too much, I honestly think a large portion of Soldat players would stop playing.


Exactamundo man. nice post

quote:you people are just pissed that you suck. kick em spawners or knife em back, corse you are probably the people tryig to remove the kick vote because you where kicked because you where camping all game saying "it was strategic" than someone pwned you and your all "omg hax!!! time to complain in the forums" *typing* "someone killed me with a knife while /piss ing must change knife so they cant kill me" i hate people
quote:""Oh my dear, people don't realize: It's a GAME, just a friggin game, NOBODY cares about realism..""

Then leave the knife how it is?

Like I've also mentioned before. People play soldat for their pleasure, stop being egoistic and think of others. Try to take another secundary then knife...

quote:""mid-air kills wich I find do far too much damage for how easy they are.""

And the barret isnt easy to kill with..

First of all : Knife is SECONDARY , Barret is a PRIMARY. Altough I agree barret is easy, but that has nothing to do with this topic. If you're trying to balance a secondary you have to compare it to the rest of secondaries.

quote:""for example on Run, an enemy spawns and instantly kills the enemy flagcarrier right when he is about to leave. He doesn't have a chance, since you're also invincible at first. ""

yay someone with talent?

That's just plain easy,

quote:Originally posted by General
Leave the knife alone. Please. Just... leave it alone. If you mess with the knife too much, I honestly think a large portion of Soldat players would stop playing.

Well the LAW was nerfed along with the other weapons, and I don't hear of many people quitting soldat. You think people wouldn't leave if we just make every weapon more powerfull again? I think there also a lot of people leaving because of these overpowerd weapons, and if they don't leave they start "whining", so imo you don't solve anything being conservative

-Sorry for the long post :). but I'm just getting tired of reading things like "just leave it alone" etc, that isn't discussing .. imo that is "whining".-

quote:Originally posted by wormywyrm[...] A knife nerf would definitely see a temporary drop in player interest at least. [...]
At first thanks for the constructive post, by far more intelligent then most of the other posts here. Still I don't agree. I don't think this would necessarily weaken the interest of the players. In fact it would make the knife be more challenging, just like it was done with the LAW now. And in my opinion that's just an advantage.
About that tactics thing: But just compare it to other weapons. For sure there's always a helpful tactic against any weapon, but who says it's really justified that you need more or less special tactics to avoid knives? And also, the need of such tactics can always slow down the game. For example with M79. For sure it's a lot easier to deal with M79-users if you just move very slowly and more likely defend yourself against them then trying to capture the flag in CTF. But that's not what this gamemode is about for the player. And if you always had to move that slowly it would definately destroy some fun Soldat has. (I hope that was understandable, I'm a little confused atm myself o.O )

quote:Originally posted by Zamorak ""mid-air kills wich I find do far too much damage for how easy they are.""

And the barret isnt easy to kill with..
I've always been a barret-hater, since 1.05b I guess. But that's not the topic here, is it?

misterx i have a bone to pick with you, *stays calm* first you complain that the knife is to easy but wait wtf you yourself like it you say my posts are not consructive but look at your sig! omg you hipocrit!! i can't belive you would whine about one of your fav. weapons YOUR THE ONE WHOSE WHINING!!!!!!! if you think weapons are cheap and easy y don't you try them out before you "complain barrets are easy cus they can kill me im gonna go complain about the knife because i need to vent some steam because im too stupid and too nooby to use proper tactics and kill players you complain about:
-spawners
-knives
-barreters
-me whining about how nooby you really are
you make me sick, i would never play soldat with such a whiny person

I wonder if you're actually serious or more likely joking, but I can tell you: I've experienced anything I'm complaining about, and yes, I've also tried Barret to be convinced of my opinion. And please, you don't know me nor have you ever seen me playing I'm sure, so don't talk about thing you don't know.

Your post amuses me, a-4-year-old. You claim MisterX, who has made relatively thought-out and coherent posts that contain strong arguments, of whining; a charge that is, ironically, better aimed at you, given the clear lack of forethought in your post, which is devoid of any coherency and holds no real argument.
I am also amused by how you "*stay calm*" and then immediately explode in a smorgasbord of "wtf"s, "omg"s, "nooby", bad grammar, and liberal use of exclamation marks and capital letters.
Calm down, dude, and try to give an actual argument in your next post. The way you're acting makes it appear as though you have no argument against MisterX's, and are thus resorting to throwing tantrums.



As for the issue at hand, some excellent points have been brought up. Although I did indeed say earlier that knives are, overall, okay, I have come to believe that:
1) The principle of the matter outweighs the knife's annoyance factor, the latter being purely subjective anyway. The "principle" is that the knife, a secondary, or backup, weapon, is indeed being used with as much frequency and success as most primaries.
2) The lengths that must be made to deal with an enemy knifer indeed slow gameplay in a game that is made to be fast and furious. Yes, knives insta-kill, which promotes a "fast and furious" game, but as knives are used more and more, people will become more proficient at dodging them.

Thus, although I admit that nerfing the knife to some extent would only prove beneficial to me, seeing as how I do not use knife myself (and thus introducing some amount of bias into the argument), I conclude that such a course of action would indeed prove overall to be beneficial to the game.
My suggested method of nerfing? Lower damage for leg hits, and grenade throw-style.

Give it some start up time, that would kill poeople knifing at spawn and it would still be effective.

@YoMammasMamma
Thanks for the feedback and the post. Though I don't think lowering the knife's damage is necessary and would do it good. Because with such a grenade-like charge-up-time it would already be nerfed pretty drastically, and by far enough I guess.

Yea Vendetta, this would be one way of nerfing it, but would only cover the spawnkilling. Still, this alone would've been an advantage for the new Soldat version and has already been suggested while the beta tests. But even though it seemed like most of the other beta testers agreed, it wasn't implemented. Too bad.

if knife ever gets changed, I would quit.

i once suggested this idea - to make it like the grenade - the longer you hold it, the further - and therefore stronger - it goes.

although my knife is a good companion of mine and i need it the way it is...

quote:if knife ever gets changed, I would quit.

Yay lets make a list of everyone who quits when it gets changed.

LAW got nerfed , Auto's had a big change. Now don't say you're going to leave if one other weapon get's a change. If you think that would make the knife a useless weapon, care to explain.

just fix the law, keep the knife and everything would be back to normal

I tried throwing the knife while pressing the fire button, it seems to help aiming. If you let go of the fire button, it launches. Maybe if you did that, it could go further?

quote:Originally posted by m00`just fix the law, keep the knife and everything would be back to normal

It was a more or less long discussion in the beta forums about the LAW, and Michal finally decided to make the LAW the way it is now, fortunately. So it's nowhere near "bugged".

ok yomamasmama ill grant you your wish (for now) i have a (hopefully calm) argument

-the knife is to get you out of a sticky situation:
you are playing a great ctf (ctf_run) game both teams have flaggers, you kill all the reds (your on blue) you are using a minimi and have to reload (zzzzzz...) the flagger is shooting at you... BUT WAIT! you have a knife! quickly knife the flagger and return the flag as the reds are respawning.

-remember old knife only games... they where great! just showing off skillz and pwning ppl

-don't nerf your favorite secondary MisterX

oh and about the *calms down*, *angry rage* i never said a singly (pleas refrain from swering thingy) you can check

Calling me a noob just because I have a different opinion is childish enough, no matter wich words youve used.
But still, finally an argument. And I can even see the point. Still I think this Charge-Up-Time could do the knife good. For sure the charge-up-time shouldnt be too long, but it could be long enough to fairly balance the knife but keep it for such emergency-situations.

Exactly. The knife would still be quite effective as an emergency backup, but use of it as a primary would be somewhat more discouraged (and I have seen knives used more as a primary quite frequently).

but... but... *stops and thinks* the charge up time isnt gonna do anything:
1. spawners will stab (until u kick them)
2. if its not long everyone will just hold until it is thrown if it is long than the knife is gonna suck alot just don't touch it
3. fyi i didn't call you a noob because i have a different opinion, i called you a noob because your opinion is retarded and can't work
4. if you mess with something, just to fix your problem, more people will complain about the weapon.
leave the knife alone and go play the game!

quote:Originally posted by a-4-year-oldbut... but... *stops and thinks* the charge up time isnt gonna do anything:
1. spawners will stab (until u kick them)
2. if its not long everyone will just hold until it is thrown if it is long than the knife is gonna suck alot just don't touch it

1. Stabbing isn't nearly as useful as throwing. You'd need to stab with the knife in the exact right moment, that's a damn lot harder than just throwing it.
2. For sure, people will hold it down until it throws. What do you think is the idea ment for? It'll just take a little longer to throw the knife, that's the whole idea..
I'll just skip 3 and 4, no comment on that..

what??? 3 and 4 are my favorite ones! anyway,
1. stabbing a spawning person is easier than stabbing a not spawning person (read more carefully)
2. if you make a charge up time it ruins the idea of having the knife in the first place. charge up time can be the difference between camper stew and dead meat! just dont screw up the knife
3. again your just mad that a guy with a knife can pwn you in midair live with it

You can't just use a Knife yourself as you spawn?

Nothing is wrong with the knife at all.

Hmm...I just remembered something...I wouldn't even think of a "start up time" for a knife would be realistic. It is possible to quickly flick your knife instead of actually winding up and throwing.

Besides, nowadays the knife rarely kills due to...what netcode crap, I dunno. All I know is the knife barely kills anymore :\

Barely kills? What kind of horrendous server are you playing on?

Yea it almost always kills... sometimes you get hit and have barly any life left...but most of the time it kills.

no it doesn't kill you on lagged up servers (damn you mods!!!!!)
edit: charge up time is stupid just stop posting amd lets all let retarded subjects die
its not that overpowered (you lose it when you kill someone, you can get it back but someone will kill you by the time you find it) just shut up!

a-4-year-old, after playing you it's pritty obvious your secondary isnt the knife. We both were pritty even in those games and I dont use it as my secondary either. Imagine someone who actually DOES use it a fair amount of time, and who doesnt make sloppy mis-shots like you and me. It is basically a one shot M79 that you can pick up and shoot again like the law bug... A nerf is needed, because right now it's ridiculous.

People... Stop being stupid for one second please...

I don't mean to be an *ss or anything, but wtf man. If you are going to throw a knife. You don't just stand there and "charge up" before you throw it. NO. You f*cking throw the damn knife. Which is EXACTLY what you should be able to do in Soldat. That's my opinion. If you feel differently... You suck.

^^ Well, now it seems that the "realism" argument is trying to worm its way back into the conversation. However, if you would like to talk about realism, and about how you don't have to charge up in real life to throw a knife, I would like to point out that holding two Desert Eagle pistols and firing both while keeping a 100% steady aim is impossible (it's hard enough with only one of them, let alone two). Soldat is not solely about realism, and none of the weapons were nerfed because of the "realism" factor, they were nerfed because they were unbalanced.

However, back to the discussion of the charge up time. I've noticed that none of the knifers complained when the LAW got a startup time (and a horrendously buggy firing technique that takes anywhere from the mythical .2 seconds - 2 whole seconds to fire). The knife has been compared to the LAW in many aspects it seems, one of which being that they are supposedly one use only and that they both tend to be instant kills. However, what people are failing to realize is that not only does the LAW have that buggy chargeup now, but you also have to STAND STILL, leaving you very vulnerable. I feel that the chargeup for the knife would even things out a little more, especially seeing as it tends to be an instant kill (or close to it) with every kill, and you can pick it up quickly (instead of waiting forever to reload like the LAW). That's my two cents on the topic.

PS - Btw, what I don't think people are realizing also is that the knifes power was actually INCREASED in 1.3 (at least from the stats I've seen, and it wasn't very much).

MisterX lol on your pic knife is your fav wp

I think he already mentioned that somewhere himself jebus, nicely said solohan

quote:Originally posted by ShadesPeople... Stop being stupid for one second please...

I don't mean to be an *ss or anything, but wtf man. If you are going to throw a knife. You don't just stand there and "charge up" before you throw it. NO. You f*cking throw the damn knife. Which is EXACTLY what you should be able to do in Soldat. That's my opinion. If you feel differently... You suck.


someone is finally getting it charge up time is retarded!!!!!!!
no need to make the knife (Please refrain from swearing) just change the law back to being not so (Please refrain from swearing)y

quote:Originally posted by a-4-year-oldquote:Originally posted by ShadesPeople... Stop being stupid for one second please...

I don't mean to be an *ss or anything, but wtf man. If you are going to throw a knife. You don't just stand there and "charge up" before you throw it. NO. You f*cking throw the damn knife. Which is EXACTLY what you should be able to do in Soldat. That's my opinion. If you feel differently... You suck.


someone is finally getting it charge up time is retarded!!!!!!!
no need to make the knife (Please refrain from swearing) just change the law back to being not so (Please refrain from swearing)y

No you see no one wasnt ridiculously easy to use secondary weapons. They want a balanced game, not crap.

If you change it back to how it was before, people will start complaining about it. Better to change knife in someway and you people who often use knife, you know its overpowered why else would you use it, you just wont admit it.

Yea it is kinda overpowered... i mean it is a one hit kill weapon like the M79... or the barret.

Yeah, and it's the 1-hit killers that're really starting to pull the game down now--there are too many reliable ones. LAW is unreliable and forces you still, and chainsaw forces you right up to the enemy's face and is impractical in the air, but the knife... It's an IPM (Instant Pwnage Machine) that you can immediately use again as soon as you pick it (or another one) up again.

Additionally, a grenade-style charge-up throw is also actually more realistic. Think about it--a baseball pitcher doesn't toss a fastball instantaneously. He has to bring his arm back and then swing it forward to produce the force necessary to get the ball over home plate. Same concept if said pitcher were throwing knives.

a pitcher is not chucking a knife at someone a knife is different, you see:
you throw a knife by holding the the tip of it (or bottom) and flick it so it spins in the air so you wouldn't need to charge up like a pitcher.
btw the knife needs to be one hit kill because that is the whole point of the knife a quick kill so you can keep the game going quickly. if you make a charge up time you will end up messing with the whole game you will make a wepon usless and make the game too tactical!

Alright, we now know that such a charge-up-time is totally unrealistic, wich nobody really cares about. Soldat itself is a completely unrealistic anyway, so might we stop this discussion about realism now, please?

i think this is the first time i atually agree with you *gasp!* 0_0 omg stop the presses!!!!!!!!!!
yes really you guys need to find a way to deal with people with real skill and stop whining.

Im actually mostly talking about your posts concerning the realism if you didn't understand this. And still I wonder why you consider this whole thread with it's ideas being "whining". What is the difference between criticism and whining for you? Is there any? Or is whining only criticism that doesn't mirror your opinion? At least it seems to be like this, because for me "whining" means complaining about something without really having experience with it. But I can tell you, I'm playing this game I'm addicted to since about 3 years now, I DO have experience with Soldat and especially the knife I'm using since a long time now. So I'm really curious why you consider this being "whining".

whining (to me) is posting about being tired of "mid-air kills" and saying it would be "realistic to have some sort of charge up time" and really your whole argument is that you are sick of one hit kills, which happens to be the reason the knife is in the game, a quick kill so you don't die, which is the point of the game right? killing and staying alive? right? that is whining

criticism is pinting out a problem with something (you did do that) and give a reasonable logical solution (you almost did) without making a bigger problem than what you where trying to solve (oops missed the boat on that one)

mister x im sure your a skillful player, just not as much of a knife primary person, but really, alot of majors out there need a good knifing!

It's funny how people think that you can't have an opinion against a weapon you use.
It's even funnier how much people are whining because their overpowered secondary's usefulness is in discussion.
And it's even funnier when said people drastically post nothing but "Leave the knife, it's fine.", as if it's going to do anything!
Anyway, MisterX, you're just wasting your time. a-4-year-old is spitting it out like a broken record now.

Doody doody doody doody doo. Lets see here. We have the Socom, knife, LAW and chainsaw. The socom kills in about four to five hits and shoots twice as fast as the desert eagles, I think. The knife, well, it's the only secondary, no... Weapon in the entire game that can kill a guy in mid air, point blank and instantly without the user worrying about killing themselves or about bink. Then they can pick it back up and immediately do it to the next guy. The knife can even be thrown while you have that moment of invincibility when you spawn. That's a bit much for a secondary weapon, don't you think?

Seeing as most people play sucky old CTF, two or more people will usually be going at each other in the classic head-on collision.

Against a chainsaw, it's incredibly likely the guy with the chainsaw is going to get raped because he has to get to point blank, which is where the knifer won't miss. Ever.

Against a LAW, the LAW-man is pretty much a sitting duck. Easy throw for the decent knifer.

Against a Socom, you have to stay back if you want to kill him. When you stay back, it means it takes longer to get to their base, which means the knifer is more likely to spawn and spawnkill you as you grab his flag thanks to that second of invincibility, or his team mates will rip you apart with no losses because you're a (Please refrain from swearing) for using a secondary as a primary.
Well, yeah.

you think too much,
1-a knifer usually dies the 2nd time he ATTEMTS to kill people
2-a barret can kill a knifer easy
3-a law has a chance but it shouldn't have a charge up time (stated before)
4-any gun can kill a knifer if they are any good at all
5-spawn knifing is an anti-spawner thing
6-most people only use the knife after missing/running out of ammo before reloading
7-knife is useless in realistic mode
8-you have to be retarded to go boxing with the knifer
9-you didn't complain in 1.2.1 so the other weps are the ones that are unbalanced
10-i cant think of anything else
11-the knife IS fine there is no (good) reason for changing it
12-no more complaining and find a way to deal with knifers (hmmmmmmm... perhaps the knife would help here...)

quote:Originally posted by a-4-year-oldyou think too much,
1-a knifer usually dies the 2nd time he ATTEMTS to kill people
2-a barret can kill a knifer easy
3-a law has a chance but it shouldn't have a charge up time (stated before)
4-any gun can kill a knifer if they are any good at all
5-spawn knifing is an anti-spawner thing
6-most people only use the knife after missing/running out of ammo before reloading
7-knife is useless in realistic mode
8-you have to be retarded to go boxing with the knifer
9-you didn't complain in 1.2.1 so the other weps are the ones that are unbalanced
10-i cant think of anything else
11-the knife IS fine there is no (good) reason for changing it
12-no more complaining and find a way to deal with knifers (hmmmmmmm... perhaps the knife would help here...)

1. If you're going to put emphasis on a word, make sure the word is spelled correctly. At point blank, missing doesn't happen. I thought you knew that already?
2. Depends on the situation. What if the barret just fired?
3. Everything has a chance. The LAW's chance is HIGHLY UNLIKELY.
4. Well d'uh. It's just that a knife has the advantage in common situations.
5. You don't even make sense here.
6. Don't see any point here, other than stating the obvious.
7. Correct.
8. Also correct. Doesn't mean anything, though.
9. Like you'd know. All of the weapons were made a tad worse, that didn't happen to the knife at all.
10. urmom
11. Your opinion, no matter how misguided and wrong it may be.
12. So. If you were playing before 1.2.1 (Which i'm doubting, actually), you would have seen the arseload of barrets we had. People don't like everything being the same, or being forced to use the same secondary simply because it's better.

Also, isn't it funny you mentioned 1 of the secondary weapons out of 4, just to agree in that the LAW doesn't have an equal chance? You're obviously comparing the knife to the primaries, and you shouldn't.

Hay, it just dawned on me how pointless this discussions is. Bye.

1-chainsaw never had a chance anyway
2-2 knifers 1-1 is very fun
3-socom could kill it if they had aim
4-now the law blows and it's a target for any weapon
5-1.2.1 was great and had no problems really
6-the knife is the only thing that has the power it should have (other than barret/m79)
7-the knife SHOULD (i spelled it right) be compared to the primaries because that is what you are tring to kill, some guy with a primary
8-if you where smart and used those "tactics" you always talk about you would not be at point blank, ever (unless afk)
9-the knife is still a backup it is eather a terrible primary or a great secondary(check #7) it's main perpes is to take out an enemy
10-if the barret just fired tough thats the way the barret works
11-some ppl don't use secondaries at all
12-it IS a pointless discussion because no matter what the knife wont change or ill be saying hello to stick soldiers III!

I personally LOVE the knife. I don't see whats so wrong about it. Here are my reasons why knife isnt so "cheap"

- knife is shortest range weapon besides chainsaw
- knife only will kill in one hit if thrown flat or downward against a full health opponent
- knife is somewhat easy to dodge for some people
- knife is slower than most other guns so you have to do a little predicting where it will land

And why do you complain about being spawned by a knife? If you do, you should also post complaints about barret, m79, spas, nades, law, and saw as well.
The law isnt that underpowered anyways, if you can continue to aim while holding down the button, it isnt that bad :o

quote:Originally posted by ugapaI personally LOVE the knife. I don't see whats so wrong about it. Here are my reasons why knife isnt so "cheap"

- knife is shortest range weapon besides chainsaw
- knife only will kill in one hit if thrown flat or downward against a full health opponent
- knife is somewhat easy to dodge for some people
- knife is slower than most other guns so you have to do a little predicting where it will land

And why do you complain about being spawned by a knife? If you do, you should also post complaints about barret, m79, spas, nades, law, and saw as well.
The law isnt that underpowered anyways, if you can continue to aim while holding down the button, it isnt that bad :o


you are my new hero *throws away pic of dad*

quote:Originally posted by ugapaAnd why do you complain about being spawned by a knife? If you do, you should also post complaints about barret, m79, spas, nades, law, and saw as well.
It's not about spawnkilling someone with knife, but getting killed with the knife by someone else just spawning, for example while you're getting the enemy flag. That's only possible with the knife at the moment, and it was made impossible to do such thing with the LAW via startup-time for a good reason.
I won't reply to your other points now, there are by far enough arguments in this thread already :)

the best way then is to have a loading time then, at spawn?

This would only solve the problem with spawnkilling. But that's not the only situation where I find that the Knife shouldn't be as strong as it's now. A charge-up time would also prevent the knifer from being able to spawnkill, but also balance the whole knife.

The thing is, that the knife is cheaply easy compared to the other secondaries when it comes to "common combat-range". If the kill is from farther, ok, that needs a lot of skill. But it's way easy to just push the lil button from a small range and kill the enemy, while someone with a
..socom has to pump half the clip into the enemy to kill,
..LAW has to find stable ground, aim, charge and shoot,
..chainsaw has to catch his enemy in order to dismember him.

Those three are balanced out, fine. The knife isn't. The charge-up time would make it a harder weapon. Currently 9.5 of 10 people use it.

quote:Originally posted by DeMonIcThe thing is, that the knife is cheaply easy compared to the other secondaries when it comes to "common combat-range". If the kill is from farther, ok, that needs a lot of skill. But it's way easy to just push the lil button from a small range and kill the enemy, while someone with a
..socom has to pump half the clip into the enemy to kill,
..LAW has to find stable ground, aim, charge and shoot,
..chainsaw has to catch his enemy in order to dismember him.

Those three are balanced out, fine. The knife isn't. The charge-up time would make it a harder weapon. Currently 9.5 of 10 people use it.

Yep, that's just what I mean. For sure it's one of the a bit harder to use weapons when you throw it on higher distances. But who cares about that when it's mostly used on really, really short distances? And even on a bit further distances it can still be very easy when throwing it at someone who is standing below you.

And about the knife only servers: i dont think the charge up time would take the fun, because it doesnt change the knife itself!
Could be even more fun cuz skill matters more.

the whole point of the knife is a:
1-quick kill
2-short distance
3-easily kill a guy who is a potencial threat
4-backup weapon

if you grabbed the flag and a knifer is out to get you use the new roll/air/backflip thing it works
that is about the only situation where the knife takes little skill (and of cores mid air kills) but mid air kills never happen to me cuz i:
1-knife the guy before he gets me
2-not close to him at all
3-kill him at a distance
4-its easy to kill someone with only a knife

just don't mess it up and there is no problem

4-year-old, I doubt that you understood even one sentance of what the SN guys, LazehBoi and me said. It's not about what do you think it was meant for, it's about balanced. It's imbalanced now, and this is a suggestion about how to balance it properly.

If the charge up would be implemented, it would still be a quick kill on long / short distance, and would suffice as a backup weapon, but you'd actually need something else besides pubic hair to use it properly.. the magical word is 'skill'.

ehh there has to be a better way than a charge up time... mabe just take it out! wow that would be loads more fun than a chargeup time!
but seriously if you really want a chargeuptime how long would you want it to be:
a-bout as long as a nade
b-bout as long as a law
c-bout as long as the rugers in between fires
d-no charge up time cus its a stupid idea

..the throw power would be equal to how long you 'charge' the knife? :P

whats the max power before you finally throw it?

We are only talking about the idea(s) in general here. Getting too specific about that would be rather useless here. We can't test it out ourselves, so how can we know what's best? If Michal decides that the charge-up time is a good idea, we'll find out what the best settings for this are in a beta test soon enough, believe me.

i still think its retarded but ill spare the bandwith and not bother telling you

Hm, I was skeptical when I first saw the thread name but now that I see what "charge up time" means I agree with it, I hate knifetards :p I would'nt want the charge up time to be too long, just a second or so, it would still give enough time to dodge by then. All in all, I think it would be a nice add on

The majority of those who hate the knife are barret p00ns period. Nothing like takin out you idiots who hide behind that pos by goin upside your head with a knife. Quit whineing knifes fine.

...And how many "barret p00ns" are there in this thread, Gameover? I myself rarely use barret and play mostly deathmatches, so camping is not something I take habit to. Knife would still do fine for killing campers if there was grenade throw-style anyhow; you'd simply have to time the attack a little more carefully.

Spawn also wouldn't be affected significantly because there is that moment of invulnerability, once again all you have to do is time your throw.

The main point of this alteration would be to place the knife into a standing that is more on level with the other secondaries. Right now it is not rare to see it used as a primary, and with great success.

That's it. It wouldn't take any or nearly no advantages of the knife, it would only make the knifer be a bit more vulnerable.

btw GAMEOVER: I hate Barret, I always did, and I can assure you that none of the other SN guys that posted here use it. So I don't think you're any right with what you're saying.

quote:Originally posted by GAMEOVERThe majority of those who hate the knife are barret p00ns period. Nothing like takin out you idiots who hide behind that pos by goin upside your head with a knife. Quit whineing knifes fine.


Your reply shows signs of retarded maturity, and selfish nature.
Apperantly you do not look at the needs of the many, simply because you are satisfied with things how they are, for you: nice and easy.

Also, you did not bring up a valid point in the argument, which leads me to the conclusion that you're just spamming around, and didn't even care to read the replies of the last few pages.

I don't use the barret much either, and I think that there are a bit too many knife users - even though I use knife sometimes.

im not a knife user, and i say keep it, but bring back the law and see what happens please, and fix that invisable rocket bug :o

do not bring the law back please, I actually am starting to like it more then the knife now because of its long distance

what you mean? it had the same distance it was just easier to use, the knife is overused, bring the law back and then see what happens

The problem isn't the fact that it's overused, the problem is the reason for why it's overused: it's too strong/useful, not what a secondary weapon should be like.

ffs your whining about a damn knife lmao if they should nerf anything it should be the barret and this is my opinion you dont like it too bad voice yours all you want but dont critisize mine.

That is no reason not to nerf the knife, this thread is meant to balance the knife with the rest of the secondaries so please start a new thread if you want to nerf the barrret. btw before you start posting such useless things, try playing without your good old knife...

Imo chainsaw is just as good as knife.. nerfing knife ( which establishing a 'charge-up time' would certainly be ) would most probably lead to nerfing the chainsaw as well..
Then, we would have a perfect world for m79/barret + soccom guys, but who cares, they've invaded the pubbies already :p

No, I think the knife is not overpowered.. it's one of the easiest weapons to dodge and it's quite unreliable, too..

quote:Originally posted by MielosThat is no reason not to nerf the knife, this thread is meant to balance the knife with the rest of the secondaries so please start a new thread if you want to nerf the barrret. btw before you start posting such useless things, try playing without your good old knife...


The knife is balanced with all the secondarys you idiot. Law has range 1 shot kill. Chainsaw owns knife close range being able to throw the knife balances this. Socom is ultra fast and powerful with an ultra fast reload time and your saying secondarys arent balance? You quit posting useless things and learn how to play without crying..

quote:Originally posted by GAMEOVERThe knife is balanced with all the secondarys you idiot. Law has range 1 shot kill. Chainsaw owns knife close range being able to throw the knife balances this. Socom is ultra fast and powerful with an ultra fast reload time and your saying secondarys arent balance? You quit posting useless things and learn how to play without crying..

You don't know much about Soldat, do you? At least what you've written doesn't show that you have any experience in playing Soldat. You really think that throwing a knife is as useful as the chainsaw? I could also say "Steyr and Socom are equally strong. Steyr kills with a few shots and is extremely fast, but Socom can still pwn the Steyerer if none of shots hit". But is that a good comparison? No.
And please, if you really think you need to insult anyone here, just leave the thread. You've already given your argument ("knife is balanced you idiot"), we now know your opinion, fine.

Do you want to prove that they are equal GO? I'll take a knife and you try to counter me with the chainsaw, wanna try? By the time your Law fires the knifer is in close range, and you can't drop the law pick it up and shoot again. And you can't get close to the knifer with your chainsaw. You could try it with soccom tough you'll have to keep running away and shoot him

Wtf? Alright. Dont even touch the knife. Its fine, its balanced with every gun, GO is right. I dont even use the knife anymore, and i have absolutely no problem with it, or even being killed by it, because I know for a fact it takes skill to time hard kills, and it makes a reliable save when your reloading and on your last limb.

Saw vs Knife? GO is right. The knife is thrown, thus it can be dodged. A saw cant be dodged, only avoided. Lets say bob is running through the middle at ctf_run. Jimmy is coming from the opposite way, running with a saw. Bob sees jimmy thinking hes an easy knife kill, so he switches to his knife, and throws it. Jimmy, knowing how to dodge knives, quickly backrolls aside, avoiding the knife. Bob then flies up in the air and pulls out his primary just as jimmy lunges a perfectly timed attack and saws bob in half. The knife has been beaten.

Law vs Knife. Bob is flying through voland and jimmy is coming down from his base, seeing bob charging up to him. Bob pulls out a knife and attempts to time a knife from above. Jimmy, quickly thinks and pulls out a law, crouches and fires a round before bob attempts his throw. Knife has been beaten.

Socom vs Knife. Jimmy, just having killed an opponent with his minimi and running out of ammo, treads through ctf_maya through the top, reloading, hoping for no encounters. Just then, bob flies over the peak, and attempts to knife jimmy. Jimmy, then avoids bob, by running backwards, making it impossible for bob to throw and hit jimmy. Jimmy then pulls out a socom, and continuously barrages bob with waves of socom bullets while hopping backwards. Before bob switches to his primary, he dies.

These are just examples of instances where each secondary is having its advantages used. They all cant be used in the same instances, and they all have advantages over eachother. Nerfing one, would mean nerfing the other 3 to equal them. Besides, I havent even involved all the possibilties of secondary vs secondary, nor have i even mentioned primary vs secondary.

Fine, you've written much about theory. Too bad it isn't the same when actually playing the game. I guess I've played enough clanwars to know that it isn't easy to avoid a knife that's thrown from about 1 meter away. And for being a knifer myself, I also know that throwing the knife from this distance and instantly killing is also very easy in most situations. And you either seem to be pretty naive or you play with the wrong people if you think that it's easier to avoid a knife than avoiding a chainsaw-user.

Ive played in clanwars myself, and i too am a knife user. If you cant dodge a knife user or know well enough how to avoid being knifed, and then bring up a topic suggesting to nerf the thing, thats just plain sad - whats even more sad is trying to justify the purpose by saying your a knifer yourself, taking a blow for the team.

All those situations have happened to me. Im sorry if you cant comprehend tips on avoiding being knifed.

I already know what you're going to say next too. -_-;;

It all depends on the situation given. For sure there are also many situations wich you can easily dodge the knife in. But especially in those close mid-air fights, when both fighters are standing next to each other (let's say 1/2 meter distance), and the knifer suddenly picks out the knife, it's impossible to dodge this. The 1 second or even less you got when the other guy takes out his knife, you think this short moment is enough to get away and dodge this very fast-flying projectile? Definately not. For sure you can still say "Of course that's possible blabla in theory", but theory definately shouldn't be overrated.

A chainsaw is really easy avoided , and a knife flies really fast. Your dodging theory won't work most of the time.

Ok, knife is effective up close. Even THEN its still possible to avoid by just killing the damn guy before he even gets close enough. I can agree its 100% impossible to dodge if they get up close and flip it out, but what you're not getting is that this is the only situation where its 100% impossible to dodge unless the thrower somehow misses. You might as well say chainsaw is too powerful, you can just as easily switch weapons when you foresee yourself colliding with your target, pull it out and BAM they're sawed.

So, I beleive we've in a sense agreed, that the knife is infact avoidable, and its only perfect up close. Now, we do this:

Heres a little chart.

Weapon: | Distance:

Socom | Mid-close
Knife | Close
Chainsaw | VERY close
LAW | Far-mid

As we see by this little chart, every weapon has its advantage from its distance, and at certain ranges, they're all avoidable - infact, you could say other weapons are too powerful, looking at the disadvantages of a knife.

I know im pointing out the obvious, but you arent seeing it quite clearly, so im making it as clear as day. The knife is infact balanced. Got any more disagreements with the above stated? All of this isnt based on theory, its based on my experience, and general knowledge of soldat.

Yes, I still disagree. For example the Socom can also be used on high distances very good, as long as you're trained with it. And the knife can also be used on mid distances pretty good. But that's all a matter of definition as well as opinion, as well as experience. I'm still of the opinion that the knife is too useful, concerning its usefulness combined with its easiness. But I guess I'll cut the discussion right here. You see, I'm of my opinion, you're of yours, we both can't convince each other, and it's definately not about the opinions of the two of us. And since we're both given all of our arguments several times now, I guess everything is said so far..
But don't you at least agree that the knife is overused? And if you do so, what do you think is the reason for that?

The only real usefulness i see with knife is in a few ways: It can save you, it can help you clear out a mob, and it can provide a better secondary (Which you can do by just killing a guy with a primary, then tossing your secondary and picking up the gun)

You also need to consider the usefulnes of other secondary's. The socom is powerful, with a plethora of rounds and an extremely fast reload - its almost an indefinite auto with a quick delay inbetween 12 rounds, and shorter distance. Its there if you have no ammo, and in some cases can be used as your primary.

The saw unlike the knife is capable of making multiple up close kills. This is possible only in crowded games, but then again, multiple knife kills are only possible if you get lucky in a crowded map as well. Also, just think of the saw as, killing them if you walk through them. It makes returning the flag easy because as you rip through them you return the flag as well.

The law is just a free kill, and a nice way to kill a running efc. I agree though that its lost some of its efficiency now that its harder to hit people with the thing.

Well, michal may have nerfed my favorite guns, but ill fight to keep my last remaining favorite (other then saw which he actually made better) gun unnerfed.

As I see it, it's a problem of balancing LAW and knife.. and since LAW has been nerfed, knife has to be nerfed too!!!11

.. oh, wait.. the soccom.. I forgot.. but, did I really ? Actually, soccom is far more usefull than knife..
The first thing is, than in mid/long distances, soccom is imo almost comparable with deagles..
The second thing is, that using knife takes a lot of skill and a bit of luck as well, to at least hit your target.. while soccom is easy to use and very practical for anyone, who's moving has not ceased to plain pushing the forward button..
The last thing is.. when using soccom, your nerves do not suffer from bullets which hit your target but either for unstable damage or for no damage at all.. on the other hand, as a knifer, and this is something you just have to admit dear MisterX, you have the temptation to type or say something really nasty everytime your successful throw was worthless in the end.. which happens to at least 30% of throws.

So, yes.. I was stupid and mistaken, we all were.. this is not about making another balanced secondary useless, this should be about nerfing deagles.. ooops, soccom, I still confuse them in 1.3 -)))

Well I see the knife as the only weapon that is the most useful mid-air when you get close to you enemy but now that your talking about mid-air kills, the m79 is similar to the knife 8)

Oh wait, I came up with an idea that can screw knifers up for at least a while. You could change the knife angle and distance. :O

This is a great idea, i really think it needs implementing.

It would allow you to guage how far you want to throw it, and allow you to give it more arc when tossed. A beautiful addition that would make knifing require a whole new skill :D

Plus, the knife was the only gun that remained the same in the swap to 1.3. I think it needs a slight nerfing anyways.

Knife isn't really that bad. I suppose it could use a tone-down, though then people might say that the Soccom is too strong as a secondary weapon. The options we have here are:

1) De-nerf the LAW
2) Make the Combat Knife act as a nade, that being that the longer you hold the button, the farther the knife goes.

That's my opinion, anyway. I don't care the way things go, though it is getting boring using the LAW. It's just not as fun anymore.

Or we could just make the throw delay a tip larger.

quote:Originally posted by MisterXFine, you've written much about theory. Too bad it isn't the same when actually playing the game. I guess I've played enough clanwars to know that it isn't easy to avoid a knife that's thrown from about 1 meter away. And for being a knifer myself, I also know that throwing the knife from this distance and instantly killing is also very easy in most situations. And you either seem to be pretty naive or you play with the wrong people if you think that it's easier to avoid a knife than avoiding a chainsaw-user.


Arent you just mr bad ass know it all you dont know (Please refrain from swearing) go whipe your tears the knife when thrown from a distance is easy to avoid if you watch it. It flys slow as hell you are a complete idiot that throws a damn hissy when you hear something you dont agree with well thats too damn bad grow a pair and deal with it. The knife is very avoidable the longer the distance the more avoidable it is. Go try to knife (not throw) a chainsaw user you wont win 1 time. I have enough expierence to KNOW this. So before you go ahead and post some bs like your mr know it all these are the facts and thats just the bottem line. Now would you like some cheese with that whine?

BTW whats your ingame handle?

Knife doesn't go slow at all.
quote:Go try to knife (not throw) a chainsaw user you wont win 1 time.
I think everyone knows that. If a chainsaw comes close you simply throw your knife, the chainsawer doesn't have a chance then. are you always that 'friendly' ?

Chainsaw has a good attack distance on it now expecially for a secondary and for a chainsaw. I get nailed with saws all the time expecially by saw and nades (<~player name).

quote:Originally posted by GAMEOVERArent you just mr bad ass know it all you dont know (Please refrain from swearing) go whipe your tears the knife when thrown from a distance is easy to avoid if you watch it. It flys slow as hell you are a complete idiot that throws a damn hissy when you hear something you dont agree with well thats too damn bad grow a pair and deal with it. The knife is very avoidable the longer the distance the more avoidable it is. Go try to knife (not throw) a chainsaw user you wont win 1 time. I have enough expierence to KNOW this. So before you go ahead and post some bs like your mr know it all these are the facts and thats just the bottem line. Now would you like some cheese with that whine?

Nobody attacked you in this whole thread. There was no need for you to be mister trollface, and doing so only shows people how protective you are of your weapon (because you can't do (Please refrain from swearing) without it, I know). You obviously didn't read anything MisterX said, either, so I advise you shut the hell up and stay out of conversations like these because you don't contribute anything other than flames.

Again, none of the weapons need nerfing.

Also, about the knife vs saw, i too will occasionally run around saw only. I dont know what you guys are saying about the knife killing the sawer. The only real threat is something slowing me down, aka the spas or minigun. Other then that, im a walking tank.

Anyways, the only nerfing the knife needs is perhaps only have it instant kill from chest up. The wind up would just (Please refrain from swearing) up every good knifers aim, for some it would ruin it, for others it would be a delay in their knifing, still, itd be an annoying concept to implement and would definetly ruin the knife like the law was ruined.

quote:Originally posted by LazehBoiquote:Originally posted by GAMEOVERArent you just mr bad ass know it all you dont know (Please refrain from swearing) go whipe your tears the knife when thrown from a distance is easy to avoid if you watch it. It flys slow as hell you are a complete idiot that throws a damn hissy when you hear something you dont agree with well thats too damn bad grow a pair and deal with it. The knife is very avoidable the longer the distance the more avoidable it is. Go try to knife (not throw) a chainsaw user you wont win 1 time. I have enough expierence to KNOW this. So before you go ahead and post some bs like your mr know it all these are the facts and thats just the bottem line. Now would you like some cheese with that whine?

Nobody attacked you in this whole thread. There was no need for you to be mister trollface, and doing so only shows people how protective you are of your weapon (because you can't do (Please refrain from swearing) without it, I know). You obviously didn't read anything MisterX said, either, so I advise you shut the hell up and stay out of conversations like these because you don't contribute anything other than flames.


Stop suckin man ass he verbally attacked my opinion so I attacked his why dont you mind your own business and stfu and FYI I do use other secondarys. "You advise me" who are you? LMFAO someone attacks my opinion so I attack theirs and im the bad guy. Mind your own business, understand whats going on, and stop being so one sided actin like some damn keyboard warrior.

GO, the thing is that the knife problem we are talking about isn't about long-range throws: it's about close range, like 3-4 Soldier sized grid distances, where it's really cheap and easy to hit. And because everyone is running around with knife, no, a chainsaw won't be able to cut down the knifer at that distance, the socom won't have time to pump enough bullets into the opponent, and the LAW doesn't have time to land and charge up. 80% of Soldat's battles are in mid air, and it takes only a matter of microseconds until a knifer can get close enough to make a 100% kill throw.
And there's one major difference between MisterX attacking your opinion, and you attacking his: he didn't try to offend you, you were the one who started Trolling around.

quote:[i]Originally posted by GAMEOVER

Stop suckin man ass he verbally attacked my opinion so I attacked his why dont you mind your own business and stfu and FYI I do use other secondarys. "You advise me" who are you? LMFAO someone attacks my opinion so I attack theirs and im the bad guy. Mind your own business, understand whats going on, and stop being so one sided actin like some damn keyboard warrior.


omg thank you! someone finally! i hate these stupid noobs who wanna screw up the knife because they keep getting pwned its the law that needs the changes, lower the charge up time!!!!!

Making the knife act like a grenade is great idea, but then how are you gonna implent it? grenade has it own buttom so should knife have it to?

kinda offtopic: wow 7 pages, i thought it would only last for like 2

ontopic: or when you have the knife in your hand f could be it's button, just like it is now

Demonic.. there's no 100% kill throw.

One more thing.. most of you antiknife crusaders have posted in topics concerning barret or m79, mentioning how lame it is to whine about one-shot weapons, how easy they are to dodge and stuff..

So, why don't you learn to dodge knife as well ? If it's that you think knife is too strong for a secondary, let's get rid of minigun, which has always been considered lame and almost useless and make knife a primary -)

Let's try this again, shall we?

It's easy to dodge bullets. Every projectile is easy to dodge. But the closer you get to the opponent, the harder you dodge something.. right? So with basically all weapons, except the knife, M79 and Barret, you have to take time to hit the opponent multiple times, while he can hit you too. The one shotters get binked, so they have to get to a proper position so they can make that shot. Here comes the tricky part.. knife doesn't get binked, and it has to deliver one blow only, which is done quite fast (in comparison with the LAW, which has to be on ground first), and in the most common situations, is undodgable.

Exactly! It's not a matter how it does against this or that, but the mere fact of what it is! What we're talking about here is a weapon with no firing time, saw-range insta-kill, short-to-medium-range insta-kill, no load time, and it's air speed isn't bad by any means; it travels plenty faster than grenades and m79 shots. The one and only disadvantage to this weapon is that you have to drop it to throw it, and it's a very simple matter to pick it (or any other knife lying around, for that matter) up again, and then from there you can immediately toss the thing again.
No weapon can boast so much bang for so little buck. If you try you'll just find yourself stating either "theories" that claim otherwise than what actually takes place constantly in-game, or "knife flaws" that rarely occur and still leave the weapon as being much more effective than others anyway.

exactly! all bullets/progectiles are harder to dodge at close range (stop picking on the knives) and anywas you missed an importaint downside of the knifeYOU CAN'T THROW IT VERY FAR!!!!! *veins almost 'splode* that is the downside of the knife, same way as some other weapons if you wanna even the secondaries make them have much longer ranges (cept the law just no charge time) and just give the chainsaw a lunge attack or something (halo2lazerswordthingy???)

If you take a look at this topic, you'll see people have made knife kills of over 40 meters distance. Yes, they may have been flukes, but to achieve that kind of range, even as a fluke, requires either to throw the knife from a great height (attacking from above being a frequently-used knife strategy, as it allows greater distance), or the knife has to have some pretty decent range to begin with. This on top of the fact that it is not hard by any means to get close enough to someone to knife them even if range isn't amazing.

And even if THAT isn't so, it being a relatively short-range weapon doesn't make up for all of the other huge advantages it has.


I also cannot help but wonder why you think that altering all the other secondaries (which are fine as they are, not to mention the 1.2.1 LAW was practically a long-range knife with splash damage) would be more prudent course of action than a slight alteration of the knife alone, after which it would still remain a very effective weapon, and probably still be used the most anyhow. The only reason I can think of is that you can't stand the idea of your favorite killing toy being tampered with, and would rather go to rather impractical extremes to avoid it.

We're not talking about killing your first-born young, dude. We're talking you having to hold that mouse button down for another fraction of a second for those longer knife throws.

wtf is a meter in soldat??? how could you find out the meters in a videogame??? why am i still typing???

There's no reason to nerf the knife, it's completely fine the way it is right now. If you nerfed the knife, all you'd accomplish is getting a good number of people to leave, the others would just switch to another weapon and be just as annoying. Spawnkilling can be easily avoided by knifing them yourself while you're invincible. Mid-air knife kills aren't all-too common, and alot of times they don't even connect.
All in all, the knife isn't annoying enough to be nerfed.

Leave the knife alone ffs, its one of the only weapons are are perfectly balanced...

quote:Spawnkilling can be easily avoided by knifing them yourself while you're invincible

Congratulations, so if you want to counter a knife you must use a knife yourself, then other secondaries are pretty much useless aren't they?

@Enesce, please read the whole topic before replying, you're simply repeating things, and as I also said before stop making comments like that, they are only good to increase your post count

quote:Originally posted by Mielosquote:Spawnkilling can be easily avoided by knifing them yourself while you're invincible

Congratulations, so if you want to counter a knife you must use a knife yourself, then other secondaries are pretty much useless aren't they?

You don't have to use knife, it's simply the quickest way. With the SOCOM, you can jet away and fire at them until they die, with the saw, you can just jump out and rip them to shreds, and with the LAW, you find a spot where you can sit long enough to fire it.

I agree with the notion of restoring the old LAW and leaving the knife alone.

If an enemy is in your base with a knife, your only chance is if you have a knife yourself, because you don't have time to jet away, if you leap with a saw you're an easy target, and you don't have time to crouch, charge and fire.

I won't bother posting what I have posted already. It's your responsibility to read my posts if you want to continue this argument instead of making an ass out of your mouth by repeating the same, not-backed-up crap over and over.

Bad idea ;0

quote:Originally posted by DeMonIcIf an enemy is in your base with a knife, your only chance is if you have a knife yourself, because you don't have time to jet away, if you leap with a saw you're an easy target, and you don't have time to crouch, charge and fire.


You don't have time to jet away? That's pathetic. If you have any skill at all, you can be in the air and killing people less than a second after you've spawned. The saw works because the spawnkiller is probably right next to you if he's spawning. If he isn't, he's a crappy spawnkiller.

The only secondary that can only beat a spawnkiller in the right conditions is the LAW, and that's because of 1.3.

quote:Originally posted by EnEsCeLeave the knife alone ffs, its one of the only weapons are are perfectly balanced...


You have obviously ignored my post explaining how knife is the most unbalanced weapon in the game.


As for Muffin's comments... If they're right next to you, then there really isn't going to be time to jet away, because they'll just jet on your tail and knife you anyway. I also imagine any good spawnkiller would keep some short distance from the spawns to avoid things like saw anyway, leaping in while throwing knife, picking said knife back up, and then heading back and repeating... Or something.
I suppose I wouldn't know though, since I don't spawn camp, and I almost never see any spawnkillers in all the public servers I play on. I've never even played on a private server, and it's the public ones that are supposed to have problems like this, right?
Hmmmm... That couldn't possibly mean that the whole spawnkiller problem is blown out of proportion, could it? Is it possible that all the points fired back and forth in this part of the argument is made up mostly theory? And anyone who's actually read the arguments and are qualified to make a post in this topic at this point knows what I said about making theories...

quote:Originally posted by YoMammasMammaAs for Muffin's comments... If they're right next to you, then there really isn't going to be time to jet away, because they'll just jet on your tail and knife you anyway. I also imagine any good spawnkiller would keep some short distance from the spawns to avoid things like saw anyway, leaping in while throwing knife, picking said knife back up, and then heading back and repeating... Or something.
I suppose I wouldn't know though, since I don't spawn camp, and I almost never see any spawnkillers in all the public servers I play on. I've never even played on a private server, and it's the public ones that are supposed to have problems like this, right?
Hmmmm... That couldn't possibly mean that the whole spawnkiller problem is blown out of proportion, could it? Is it possible that all the points fired back and forth in this part of the argument is made up mostly theory? And anyone who's actually read the arguments and are qualified to make a post in this topic at this point knows what I said about making theories...


I'm a spawnkiller to the core. I live for pissing people off, and spawning is a quick and easy way to do it. Every chance I get, I whip out my knife and start flipping off heads. Spawnkilling is easily beaten, especially when the killer is using a knife. All you have to do is something unexpected, such as rolling past him or backflipping and raining pain from the air. Plus, it's possible for him to miss, have his knife jam, not fully kill you, or the netcode bug and the knife disappear entirely. All of these reasons apply to regular play, too.
If you think nerfing the knife will drop the number of spawners, it won't. They'll just switch to a better weapon.

quote:Originally posted by Muffin
I'm a spawnkiller to the core. I live for pissing people off, and spawning is a quick and easy way to do it. Every chance I get, I whip out my knife and start flipping off heads. Spawnkilling is easily beaten, especially when the killer is using a knife. All you have to do is something unexpected, such as rolling past him or backflipping and raining pain from the air. Plus, it's possible for him to miss, have his knife jam, not fully kill you, or the netcode bug and the knife disappear entirely. All of these reasons apply to regular play, too.
If you think nerfing the knife will drop the number of spawners, it won't. They'll just switch to a better weapon.


well, i would have to think that spawnkilling is not so easy to beat if you do it all the time and it's "quick and easy". and as for people switching to a better weapon to spawn with, there is no other SECONDARY weapon that can be used as effectively to spawn as knife. saw is the closest weapon to that and that, unlike the knife, is easily avoided. there are primary weapons that can spawn (barret and m79), but even those are not nearly as simple as a knife to spawn with. and the fact that they're primary weapons takes them out of the conversation entirely, because this thread is about the balance of secondary weapons. and the knife undoubtedly has an edge on the other weapons, especially in spawnkilling.

quote:Originally posted by solohan50quote:Originally posted by Muffin
I'm a spawnkiller to the core. I live for pissing people off, and spawning is a quick and easy way to do it. Every chance I get, I whip out my knife and start flipping off heads. Spawnkilling is easily beaten, especially when the killer is using a knife. All you have to do is something unexpected, such as rolling past him or backflipping and raining pain from the air. Plus, it's possible for him to miss, have his knife jam, not fully kill you, or the netcode bug and the knife disappear entirely. All of these reasons apply to regular play, too.
If you think nerfing the knife will drop the number of spawners, it won't. They'll just switch to a better weapon.


well, i would have to think that spawnkilling is not so easy to beat if you do it all the time and it's "quick and easy". and as for people switching to a better weapon to spawn with, there is no other SECONDARY weapon that can be used as effectively to spawn as knife. saw is the closest weapon to that and that, unlike the knife, is easily avoided. there are primary weapons that can spawn (barret and m79), but even those are not nearly as simple as a knife to spawn with. and the fact that they're primary weapons takes them out of the conversation entirely, because this thread is about the balance of secondary weapons. and the knife undoubtedly has an edge on the other weapons, especially in spawnkilling.


I don't understand how you conclude that because something is quick and easy to start, it's hard to beat. Spawnkilling is easy to beat, plain and simple. A charge-up time wouldn't help much, either, people'd just use the shortest time and get a bit closer to you. A charge-up time would also ruin the entire point of the knife as a quick-acting back-up weapon. Admittedly, the knife is a bit overpowered compared to the rest of the secondaries, but it's not overpowered enough to warrant a nerf.

Muffin, if knife would work similiar to a grenade (meaning, the longer you hold it the farther it goes) wouldn't be a major nerf, but a tweak so it requires more skill to use than it does now. Like the LAW needs to be whipped out a bit before you can charge it to fire, the knife would have to be held for a longer while before you throw it, thus eliminating the easy spawn-kill / mid-air combat spoiler part of it. I think you, as a non-noobie knife user, can cope with that, and understand the effects of this tweak(NOT nerf).

no the knife you throw for christ sake if your good you dont get spawnkilled simple as that...

quote:Originally posted by DeMonIcMuffin, if knife would work similiar to a grenade (meaning, the longer you hold it the farther it goes) wouldn't be a major nerf, but a tweak so it requires more skill to use than it does now. Like the LAW needs to be whipped out a bit before you can charge it to fire, the knife would have to be held for a longer while before you throw it, thus eliminating the easy spawn-kill / mid-air combat spoiler part of it. I think you, as a non-noobie knife user, can cope with that, and understand the effects of this tweak(NOT nerf).


Many of the times I use the knife to save myself, I'm dead before the knife ever contacts the person shooting me. A grenade-like charge would have me dead before I even got to throw my knife. It would ruin the knife's point. Sure, it would take more "skill" to use, but it would just end up being an annoyance, like the LAW. Before, the LAW was fine. It wasn't all-too popular and was only annoying when camped. Now, nobody uses it. In five 30-minute games, I saw not one person use a LAW, simply because it's reaction time is too slow to do anything. I don't want this to happen to the knife.

quote:Originally posted by Muffin
Many of the times I use the knife to save myself, I'm dead before the knife ever contacts the person shooting me.
Then this happens because of a lack of skill or so. The knife can be thrown so extremely faster, it doesnt even take a second to take it out and throw it, so that's definately not an argument.

[quote]Before, the LAW was fine. It wasn't all-too popular and was only annoying when camped. Now, nobody uses it. In five 30-minute games, I saw not one person use a LAW, simply because it's reaction time is too slow to do anything. I don't want this to happen to the knife.
The LAW definately was overused, at least in clanwars. You should've played clanwars in 1.2.1 if you didn't, I guess about 90% of the clans, or even more, used LAW only.
And no, I don't think this would happen to the knife. See, nowadays nobody uses the LAW simply because they got a much better alternative, the knife. No matter if it's overpowered or anything, it's simply better, obivously. Otherwise not nearly everyone would be using it. But if the knife would get "nerfed", not that many would use the knife anymore but also take the Socom or the LAW.

quote:Originally posted by MisterX
Then this happens because of a lack of skill or so. The knife can be thrown so extremely faster, it doesnt even take a second to take it out and throw it, so that's definately not an argument.

It happens because both of us are nearly dead when my minimi runs out, and the other guy still has some shots left in his gun. While he's shooting, I take out my knife and throw it and both of us end up dead. A grenade-charge would force me to switch to SOCOM for quick backup.

quote:The LAW definately was overused, at least in clanwars. You should've played clanwars in 1.2.1 if you didn't, I guess about 90% of the clans, or even more, used LAW only.
And no, I don't think this would happen to the knife. See, nowadays nobody uses the LAW simply because they got a much better alternative, the knife. No matter if it's overpowered or anything, it's simply better, obivously. Otherwise not nearly everyone would be using it. But if the knife would get "nerfed", not that many would use the knife anymore but also take the Socom or the LAW.


Which would leave people complaining about how the SOCOM does too much damage or how the LAW isn't slow enough. Every time you bring one weapon down, the others will get pushed up, and people will demand that the other weapons be nerfed. If the LAW was never nerfed, the knife and LAW kills would've balanced out, and this topic probably never would've been made. Instead, there would be a topic wanting more powerful SOCOM shots or a faster reload time for the chainsaw. Also, I avoid clans, so I never participate in clanwars.

Bah...a delay for the knife is totally unnecessary. The knife is fine as is, balance and all (and when I say that, it's because I think it is balanced...not because I failed to read anyones posts. Just because you post something saying it's unbalanced doesn't make it so.)

Long story short, if a knifer is pissing you off find alternatives. There's a definate rhythm to using/throwing a knife, and when one falls into that rhythm it's pretty easy to hack down people from a distance before they even know what hit 'em. But what kind of a game are we left with if every challenge or strong weapon is nerfed and pacified? It doesn't take you a second to warm up irl throwing a knife, there's no "charge up" time..you pull it and throw, and I'd prefer to see things stay just the way they are in that sense. Getting spawn knifed too much? Either learn to throw or try a saw. They're both great weapons.

Of all the weapons issues in this game, just leave the knife alone ffs.

As I see it, Soldat's weapon balance gets questioned in competitive games, in other words, clan wars. That's mainly because because publics are massly unorganised, and you're totally on your own, therefore you don't really feel the ups and downs of the current balance, as it was calibrated for organised team-games.

Now onto my second point. The majority of Soldat battle scenarios is the following: players are in the air, either going up or down, but they are in the air, and enclosing towards each other. As the range begins to become smaller and smaller, the knife's advantage raises because of its speed and accuracy on short range. It's simple math here: that means that the knife has an overwhelming advantage in the most common scenarios.
One could assume that this situation is solvable: you just have to keep a distance, attack with more caution, back off in battle. However, these solutions are killed by other factors in the game: if you attack with more caution, that is, more slowly, you get grinded up by the rush attack; keeping distance is pretty hard, because it's pretty easy to get close to someone fast; and finally, backing off isn't an option either, as your velocity from the rush will make your backing off slower, rendering you defenseless against a rushing attacker.

If I want to sum it up, I'd say that a weapons place in balance isn't disputable by looking at the weapon alone: you have to look at the scenarios, other weapons of the same caliber, and so on. This is why balance wasn't achievable with the damage-modification weapon mods of 1.2.1.

quote:Originally posted by MisterX
... And no, I don't think this would happen to the knife. See, nowadays nobody uses the LAW simply because they got a much better alternative, the knife. No matter if it's overpowered or anything, it's simply better, obivously. Otherwise not nearly everyone would be using it. But if the knife would get "nerfed", not that many would use the knife anymore but also take the Socom or the LAW.


Hah, of course it WOULD happen to the knife as well. People would have two better alternatives to knife/LAW, that is socom or saw, again.. I guess one of the latter ones would be nerfed soon, too..

I'm too lazy and busy to go through the whole topic again, so pardon me mr. Demoniac, but as far as I remember, the knife was the same in 1.2.1 as it is in 1.3 .. why didn't you whine about how easy it is to kill with it etc. etc. etc. ?
Probably because more people used LAW, right ? So in 1.2.1, you 'solved' your problem in a very childish way and archaic way ( those who know a bit about modern mmog games will understand.. ) by making strong thing weaker rather than spending some time by finding a more complex solution.
In 1.3, again, you are eager to 'solve' your problem in a way, which is quite appropriate to your age, I have to say. Maybe, if you were just a bit more experienced, I mean beyond your omgololol pwning in soldat, you would know that nerfing has been known to be the worse method of balancing anything for quite some time..

You don't need to go through the whole topic again, just the last few posts, and you'll get answers to some of your questions.

Truth to be told, LAW was overused enough to cover the power-trip capabilities of the knife. I don't know why you're referring to 'childish and archaic ways' (or my age..), but with the given weapon editor, the charge-up time was the best solution there was to create a LAW that requires skill to use, while keeping its devastating power(which is still present, I can assure you of that).

Like you said, the knife remained the same, but let's not forget that every weapon was changed so they have a steeper learning curve. That means that the knife is now easy to 'master' (master as in being able to use it in the most common situations effectively, and not "master as in being able to kill someone in a two screen distance") when compared to every other gun, which results in it being massively over used, both in publics and in competitive games(pretty much like the DE were in late 1.2.1).

You still refer to this suggestion as a 'nerf', while it is clearly not. It's just a tweak that would make the knife have a similiar learning curve to the other weapons.

You people who says it can't be thrown far, check it with m79 and you will see its almost equal

X=you
-= ground
m79
knife

X----------------------knife--------M79

an average lenght of the throw its quite long IMO.

http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl06-e.htm M79 in real world. it goes as far as 350m but normal is 150m, thats quite far do do you throw a knife about 100m or what. You don't just throw stuff that far like that. plus its still deadly under that time so yeah its overpowered. What makes a knife so deadly? you kan survive a stab in the stomach, arm, leg and body. you don't just die instantly.
But if you are hit in the head it should kill

Comparing Soldat with the real world seems to be the last refuge of the incompetent..

Btw, sorry Demoniac and other, I didn't mean to insult anyone.. it just seems to me, that if one takes a game so seriously as you do, (s)he should be able to solve problems seriously as well.

I think what you're trying to say is that the beta testers failed to solve the problem with enough foresight and/or consideration of its effects on the usage of the other weapons, a possibility that I agree may be quite the case. At any rate, I imagine it was not hard to miss things like the knife's dominance (as well as other unrelated problems) using the closed (and probably relatively lag-free) testing methodology that they did.

I also agree that NavySeal's argument, although by no means bad at first, completely fell apart when he mentioned real-life.


As for your argument that the problem would not be solved using the suggested method, I personally believe that the knife would remain a very useful secondary, maybe even remain at the top. It just wouldn't be over-the-top, since you still have to literally ram your opponent with the chainsaw, the LAW has its delay, and the USSOCOM isn't even instakill.

as far as clan wars go, i have an easier time killing the opponent using law rather then knife and vice versa for the main route. We could get rid of knife and law from the game or decrease the law shooting delay to half of what it is or shorter to make it somewhat balanced :o

EDIT: oops i mean i have an easier time killing the enemy going the alternate way :P

Now getting rid of weapons would result in a crazy (Please refrain from swearing) fest.

People People. Let's just join hands and sing Cumby-ya around a roaring campfire with marshmellows on a stick in the wilderness that is south dakota, USA. And as for this topic the knife is fine as it is because it is hard to use and yet when flying straight at someone easy enough to manage to kill them if you have a little practice. Fair enough. Also technically DeMonic I believe a "steep learning curve" is just a fancier way of saying "nerf" and "nerf" is just a mentally retarded person's way of saying lesser or not as good.

....... TAKE AWAY THE KNIFE!!!!! wtf... Mutha***** Hootnenany..... PUNt*** americo*

quote:Originally posted by Close Combat....... TAKE AWAY THE KNIFE!!!!! wtf... Mutha***** Hootnenany..... PUNt*** americo*


People like you are the reason why abortion is so popular. :(

abortion is murder!


but really the knife is fine, some people that use it, not so fine, have you ever considered the other secondarys are not powerfull enough? and there is a very lethal weapon for spawnkilling knifers... votekick

Please, leave the knife alone, if you let a knifer come that close to you, you die. If you let an autoer come that close to you, you die as well. If you will mess with the knife, you'd have to mess with the autoes. Plus, you don't see people on TV or in real life even charging up their knife.....

I don't like this suggestion.

exactly!

leave it alone, it really doesn't do very much anyway, just keep yer distance and your fine.

Now this is a good example of the bad variety of forum necromancy right here.

So, for those who never saw this topic the first time around: this issue's pretty much dead--knife's not gonna change, and I should know; I was one of the main players in this discussion, and was for the idea of nade-style throws.

for the luv of man kind

STOP comparing stuff
kkazican u r a RET@RD and a ur kRaZY so u shud be loked away


the knife is fine nice suggest but this going TOOOOOOOOOO far

I think that the argument that putting a charge up time on the knife would make it less effective for spawn killing is flawed. In my opinion all it would do is make knife less effective at stopping spawn killing since all the spawn killer has to do is start this throw earlier, and he has the time anyway since he has to wait for his victim's invincibilty to wear off.

9 pages of this topic? whoa...

anyway, my opinion stands as it is:
the knife is fine for me. ^^