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Spawn killing.
Soldat Forums - Soldat Talk - General Discussions
Deleted User
August 26, 2005, 3:04 am
Really, is there a problem with this? Spawnkilling is damn hard. Some guy tried kicking me for spawn killing. I asked him "Why can't you just counter-attack me?" "BECUZ IT TAKES 6 SECONDS FOR RELOAD NOOB" "You're using a barret, and you're saying it's my problem?" "YES STOP SPAWNCAMPING"
Best part: I killed him 6 times in a row by "spawn camping" with the chainsaw. Really, even if he was using a barret, he could use just about any secondary weapon to counter-it.
Spawn camping gets 2 thumbs up from me d(''d)

117
August 26, 2005, 3:11 am
Spawning is for n00bs and gets annoying. How would you like it if a person with a barret and rlly good timing and aim pwned u everytime you spawn.

Sure spawnkilling is damn hard, but doing it wont give you anything except a bad reputation on the server. Soon ppl will hate you for it.

Just stop it.

Deleted User
August 26, 2005, 3:16 am
You get about a second of invincibility, so it's not hard to stop spawnkilling. And no, I won't stop spawnkilling because one of the reasons I use the chainsaw is to spawnkill.

TheRelinquished
August 26, 2005, 3:18 am
Honestly, have some courtesy. Why make the game less fun for others?

If it were me that you were spawning, I would probably be able to get out of it (for one, since I don't use the barret), but not everyone can. Chances are, I'd probably put all my focus into hunting you though. For some reason seeing the words "Killed By Tex" over and over makes people cease doing stupid things.

It's not cool man. Don't turn friendly games into grudge matches by pissing people off. You'll get yours if you do.

MikeShinoda.pheonix
August 26, 2005, 3:35 am
It is just something that you need to learn to deal with if your going to enjoy this game.

_Mancer_
August 26, 2005, 3:39 am
Don't spawnkill, you are a newbie if you do. Plain and simple :<

Deleted User
August 26, 2005, 3:42 am
hmmm....i personaly dont care if i get spawn killed...if it pisses you off....walk away for a minute...its a game...

Deleted User
August 26, 2005, 4:10 am
quote:Originally posted by _Mancer_Don't spawnkill, you are a newbie if you do. Plain and simple :<


Agreed.

Spawnkilling isnt hard, its as simple as nade spamming the spawn area and unleashing a full clip on everyone appearing. There are other ways as well, but all in all its rather newbish.

Now, I know there is a few second immunity when you first respawn, ever consider the fact the person might be typing about something after they died, or that they're choosing new weapons? You shouldnt die right on respawn. When you respawn, it usually is supposed to mean a few seconds of tranquility until you fly back in to have some more uber fun killing moments.

Also, this was a rather useless topic to make - just here to stir up controversy imho.

Deleted User
August 26, 2005, 4:28 am
Spawnkilling is the same thing as a regular fight, except the other person gets 1 second of invincibility. Really, all you have to do is start flying to avoid grenades. And if you're using a barret or m79, pull out your knife (I hate people who knife me when they spawn :( )

Deleted User
August 26, 2005, 4:56 am
Quaint.

Someday you'll learn, young one.

Beren
August 26, 2005, 5:25 am
Just becuase I love playing devil's advocate, I do give a few props for your blatant lack of remorse, and security in your slightly offensive practices, though I don't approve of spawnkilling.

_Mancer_
August 26, 2005, 5:36 am
quote:Originally posted by ZambinoSpawnkilling is the same thing as a regular fight, except the other person gets 1 second of invincibility. Really, all you have to do is start flying to avoid grenades. And if you're using a barret or m79, pull out your knife (I hate people who knife me when they spawn :( )


Have you ever considered the factor of, picking a weapon and secondary, and the off chance that they could spawn on a grenade (once the invisibility is over, they instantly die.)

Stop spawnkilling and get your kills the fair way cheapass.

Happy Camper
August 26, 2005, 5:41 am
if anyone has played with me in U13, and my team is getting spawned the (Please refrain from swearing) out of, then you know my opinion on spawn camping, and you know what happens when you do it repididly to me.

F3nyx
August 26, 2005, 5:47 am
My personal policy on spawnkilling is that I always try to let the other person aim at me BEFORE I start shooting at them. If they're using the Barret or M79, however, I have no remorse about shooting them before they're done loading.

Of course, if I'm in the spawn room of CTF_Voland and a friendly flag carrier is making his escape, I'll shoot/grenade any spawning opponents without delay. Screw honor, I want that cap.

That room in Voland is a fairly interesting situation... does throwing grenades up into the room from the flag pad constitute spawn-killing? What about sniping opponents as the emerge onto the flag pad? Sometimes it's rather hard to draw the line.

The only time I remember spawn killing being a real problem was when the chainsaw was first introduced. Holy crap, that thing could easily massacre a whole spawning team. I haven't seen anybody get truly, indisputably spawnkilled for a LONG time.

The one-second delay is enough time to pull and throw a knife, anyway, so if you get spawnkilled it's pretty much your own fault.

117
August 26, 2005, 6:29 am
But u see, some ppl dont use knives, take Spartan_III for example. Hes a thorough bred law user.

Elephant_Hunter
August 26, 2005, 6:32 am
Extacide and _Mancer_, calling a person a newbie as an insult is a sign of your own immaturity. If you have ever been in a honorable clan, you learn to respect such things. In the real world there are no rules against spawnkilling. There's no punishment for campers. If you can't hold yourself then you will bring your name and clan down with you.

If you cross paths with a real new person, don't hesitate to lend a helping hand. Teach him how to play, not what you believe. There are times when spawncamping is not necessary, but there are other times when it can make all the difference. Camping in the open is idiocy, although stragetically hiding behind scenery adds to the zest of the game. There's nothing more satisfying than saying "gg" at the end of a round, especially if your team has just lost horribly.

Is this is what you openly rebel against? I don't know if it's to hate or to act arrogant, but I'm asking you to stop teaching people to complain. You're not making our community any better.

_Mancer_
August 26, 2005, 7:01 am
quote:Originally posted by Elephant_HunterExtacide and _Mancer_, calling a person a newbie as an insult is a sign of your own immaturity. If you have ever been in a honorable clan, you learn to respect such things. In the real world there are no rules against spawnkilling. There's no punishment for campers. If you can't hold yourself then you will bring your name and clan down with you.

If you cross paths with a real new person, don't hesitate to lend a helping hand. Teach him how to play, not what you believe. There are times when spawncamping is not necessary, but there are other times when it can make all the difference. Camping in the open is idiocy, although stragetically hiding behind scenery adds to the zest of the game. There's nothing more satisfying than saying "gg" at the end of a round, especially if your team has just lost horribly.

Is this is what you openly rebel against? I don't know if it's to hate or to act arrogant, but I'm asking you to stop teaching people to complain. You're not making our community any better.


..Did I even say once I complain about it ingame?

quote:There's no punishment for campers. If you can't hold yourself then you will bring your name and clan down with you.

quote:In the real world

I kinda chuckled at those.

Beren
August 26, 2005, 7:07 am
Let's make a pool right now to see how many posts from now this will be in the bash pit. I put 20 credits on...under 4 posts. Maybe I'm being a bit rash, it could be too few. (Of course, I'm doing nothing but expiditing the process with my post, maybe I'll add something to the conversation to justify it.)

Hmm, I'm hardly decided one way or the other on the topic, but I just got to thinking, what's the moment of invincibility in there for if not to compensate for spawnkilling. So since it's in there, can we assume spawnkilling is duely compensated for and therefor fair and legitimate, or is that too far of a leap...? (Do you follow my line of reasoning?)

Mind you, I'm not sold one way or the other. (I'm terribly non-commital)

Elephant_Hunter
August 26, 2005, 7:31 am
Okay, I have to admit. _Mancer_ has been a good boy. I've never seen him complain in-game. Well, maybe a long long time ago, but I believe he's changed for the better. In my mind I had you clustered in with Extacide. Sorry.

Beren makes a good point. What are your thoughts on the temporary invincibility of a newly spawned soldat? Is there something that needs to be changed here? In my opinion it's long enough, but what if MM were to add a server-side option to change the time? Would that should satisfy most people?

Deleted User
August 26, 2005, 7:43 am
Well, my opinion rests: Spawnkilling is lame. If you cant play legitimately, why bother?

Elephant_Hunter
August 26, 2005, 8:05 am
I play to win. It's legitimate because it's logical. If you're not going to be productive and look into suggestions to -fix- spawnkilling when I try to see your side, then I will disregard all your further short-sighted 'opinions'. You spam our games, you spam our forums (5.71 posts a day... and a Captain? he's only been posting here since last month) and you sure don't impress anybody with those one-liners. The least you could've done was give reasons and act like an adult about it. Not too hard to be more responsible than the other person.

Mielos
August 26, 2005, 11:48 am
quote:In the real world there are no rules against spawnkilling. There's no punishment for campers

In the real world... We don't suddenly spawn in a small blue or red coloured room, in the real world there is a third dimension....

ffs Soldat is a game, people play games for amusement. If you like to spoil it for others, that's just pathetic

Spawnkilling can tough easily be fixed if the spawnpoints weren't all located at the same spot,

Deleted User
August 26, 2005, 12:47 pm
And in real life, there are rules to how you fight a war. You don't use chemical weapons on the battlefield in real life (ever since WWI, I do believe), and you don't spawnkill in Soldat.

Please note that of course it is sometimes inevitable (going after efc, escaping/escorting ffc, etc.), but spawnkilling for the sake of spawnkilling is just retarded.

Snowden
August 26, 2005, 1:05 pm
quote:Originally posted by SnowdenThere is a difference between spawnkilling and spawncamping. A single spawnkill is usually an impulsive, neccesary act. When you grab the flag right when the enemy team spawns, extremely common on Viet and Death, they'll probably kill you if you don't kill them as they spawn. In DM games, in the intense struggle to rack points, spawnkilling is so commonplace that you just have to accept it. Coupled with the fact that spawnkilling isn't too difficult to avoid (see above), I think it is a perfectly acceptable aspect of the game.

Spawncamping is a seperate issue. In spawn camping, one, two, three, or an entire time of enemy players set up camp in the general vicinity of your spawn, killing you and your team over and over again as you spawn. This almost always occurs because the teams are unfair, either literally (6 vs. 4) or in terms of skill. A 5 player team with 4 excellent attacking players against a weak, defensive team with only 1 excellent player makes it easy for the superior team to steamroll the weak one. Spawncamping naturally opens itself up to the dominant team, making it difficult to avoid and frustrating for the weak team. Not only does your team already suck, but now you are being deprived of any possibility of changing the tide, because you can't even leave your base. Spawncamping, or imbalanced teams, is the real problem, not isolated spawnkills. I think a lot of players confuse the two.

Happy Camper
August 26, 2005, 1:34 pm
Wise words from Mr. Snowden

Elephant_Hunter
August 26, 2005, 3:50 pm
He makes a good point, and I agree with much of what he says.

... but I think there is more to it than camping in the spawn area. The "Steamroll" effect that you talk about is a precaution I take to make sure my team wins, but sometimes it doesn't even ensure that. I understand the frustration a recently spawned soldat would have, but I don't see how it's any different than any other situation where they are killed.

Say Bob the Sniper lays down in some bushes to protect the flag. Kamikazi Soldier comes in and is immediately shot down by Bob. This happens again and again, throughout the -entire- game. Kamikazi acts pissed and leaves. Sound familiar? It happens a lot.

You and I both understand that Kamikazi should've had an advantage, knowing where his opponent was located. He failed to use that knowledge, which was a key mistake. My point is that people who are spawned are in a very similar situation. They have an advantage (invincibility) and fail to use it.

Now, if somebody asks me to do something nicely, it'll probably get done. I try my best to see other people's standpoints. My main accusation against the anti-spawnkiller (camper?) bunch is that they tend to aggressivly put down people who don't agree.

LazehBoi
August 26, 2005, 3:54 pm
quote:Originally posted by _Mancer_quote:Originally posted by ZambinoSpawnkilling is the same thing as a regular fight, except the other person gets 1 second of invincibility. Really, all you have to do is start flying to avoid grenades. And if you're using a barret or m79, pull out your knife (I hate people who knife me when they spawn :( )


Have you ever considered the factor of, picking a weapon and secondary, and the off chance that they could spawn on a grenade (once the invisibility is over, they instantly die.)

Stop spawnkilling and get your kills the fair way cheapass.

Or else... What exactly?
I'm not trying to side with anyone, but there is no reason why he can't be cheap other than to obey 'moral code'.

Hoodlum
August 26, 2005, 4:09 pm
quote:Originally posted by _Mancer_Don't spawnkill, you are a newbie if you do. Plain and simple :<
Quoted for the truth.

Deleted User
August 26, 2005, 4:45 pm
I've died more times than I lived when I tried to spawnkill, let's just leave it at that.

Deleted User
August 26, 2005, 5:56 pm
kids dont complain about spawn killing, its natural, i dont do it but if someone is spawn killing you then you counter it with a knife or choose ruger instead of barett. lol damnnoobs spawn kills

_Mancer_
August 26, 2005, 7:18 pm
I stand corrected by Snowden.

Deleted User
August 26, 2005, 7:55 pm
Imho, I only find spawning legitimate if you just captured the flag, and are making a getaway and a few soldats just concidentially respawn as you capture the flag, so you eliminate them as you make your getaway. Other variations such as a team flying in for the flag and the team killing everyone spawning and chasing the ffc THEN flying back to escort the ffc.

Another situation which id find ok is if one or more persons just flew into your base to kill your ffc, and you happen to get caught in the crossfire just as you spawn. Sometimes its a neccessity to kill everyone else to limit down any threats and to make killing the efc much more easier. Infact, id prefer to spawn just as the enemy teamed up on the efc so i could get a whack on a weakened enemy.

Anyother situation, is just lame to do it. (Unless I missed one...)

Deleted User
August 26, 2005, 10:35 pm
well if your doing deathmatch and all of a sudden they spawn right in front of you

Deleted User
August 26, 2005, 11:38 pm
Hmm...I don't think you people play aganist the "Elite Spawncampers". Well, yeah I rarely see them but those are the worse spawncampers -_-. They're usually armed with a barret and enjoys hiding at a good distance. They always shoot you the exact moment your one second of invic...(whatever) is over. Having a spawn longer than four seconds increases the fustration...

SeanCapsAss
August 27, 2005, 1:06 am
quote:Originally posted by _Mancer_Don't spawnkill, you are a newbie if you do. Plain and simple :<


but if you do it in a clan match youre cool right?

_Mancer_
August 27, 2005, 1:08 am
quote:Originally posted by SeanCapsAssquote:Originally posted by _Mancer_Don't spawnkill, you are a newbie if you do. Plain and simple :<


but if you do it in a clan match youre cool right?


Why would I do it in a clanmatch?

Deleted User
August 27, 2005, 4:26 am
What a pointless topic, once again made for controversy. -_-;

GAMEOVER
August 27, 2005, 6:08 am
I dont care what anyone says I will do it if I have to, for example I was lookin for efc at their base just last game I played and couldnt find him so i killed everything that spawned til he showed then got him wtf am i supose to do run and get gunned down instantly or let them have time to kill me because their ffc isnt around?? nope dont think so..

UGK
August 27, 2005, 6:09 am
quote:Originally posted by Hoodlumquote:Originally posted by _Mancer_Don't spawnkill, you are a newbie if you do. Plain and simple :<
Quoted for the truth.


i tried to spawn but i just get countered..8(

TheRelinquished
August 27, 2005, 6:04 pm
Oh dear....

Elephant, I think you take this game far too seriously. You seem to be convinced that winning any way you can is the best path for you. And I can respect a strong desire to win. I, however, cannot respect an inability to see how your ambitions can wipe away common courtesy between gamers.

You speak of respect for the rookie population of Soldat, and how we should offer them a helping hand, and I agree with this. But what of the veterans and the prime players? Do they get no respect? Do you not see that ill-bred strategies like spawning just spoil it for some? You want to see "gg" after every game, so why not try to make it a "good game"?

To the original poster: I have a policy for spawning, one that allows it under certain conditions. Those are that (a) I am capturing a flag or the FFC is running away and I'm trying to keep the new-spawned team away from him, or (b) someone spawns near me and I allow them the first shot (non-barret/M79), or (c) it's a one-time running chainsaw and I get -lucky-. Under all other conditions I chastize others as well as myself for spawning.

If there's no one in a base, and no flag, I'll try to find a safe place nearby to hide so that the spawning team won't force me to kill them. And I will actually back off from barrets and M79s so that they have a chance. It's no more than a courtesy. Respect for others who are trying to have fun like me. That's all I can say. I hope you can see my point.

And as for camping--it's legit as far as I'm concerned. Everyone knows that camp-spots are built into the game. MM handed us the ability to camp, just like he handed us the ability to blow away snipers by dodging behind obstacles and plugging them with two shells of 12 gauge ball bearings. But there will always be people to complain about that. : /

rabidhamster
August 27, 2005, 6:08 pm
grenades.

the answer is grenades.

if someone is getting spawn killed, they can easily nade the camper. all done. no more.

Elephant_Hunter
August 27, 2005, 7:19 pm
Relinquished, I think you have things a tad backwards. I'm not the one taking my gaming too seriously, it's the people who vote kick me when I spawn. It's the people who leave the game. They can't just play and have fun. And to the rest of you, of course I don't enjoy ruining other player's experiences. If you had played Soldat this entire time with no knowledge of the word spawncamper, then you would have no reason to complain. But there are outside influences, and popular culture has taught you it's okay to bash a player in-game. It's totally not.

Now, for some information on -me-. I am almost never bashed for spawnkilling, and haven't been for months. How? Because when the teams are uneven I change sides. When there's a lead on Red, I switch to Blue. I care much less for my own score than I do keeping players happy. If somebody asks me to stop something, I try to do so. But when I get "lame! nub stop using m79" from some dolt I've never heard of it's angering. If they don't want to reason, I am not going to listen.

Edit: Ohh, I just found something interesting....
quote: If you can't handle this "rascismic" activity in soldat, you might want to find a different game.

Or you could just ignore it.
HURR

That's something you should be arguing against. Stop buggin' poor folks like me :P

Mielos
August 27, 2005, 8:24 pm
quote:They can't just play and have fun.

No they can't, because you ruin it for them with your spawncamping.

Teh Panda
August 27, 2005, 8:26 pm
Im sick of these useless topics.. >_<

666 \o/

Deleted User
August 27, 2005, 8:44 pm
Spawnkilling is great. Kill after kill after kill, and they all get pissed off at you.

My policy is, if you can't beat the spawner, you don't have any right to (Please refrain from swearing) about it.

Deleted User
August 27, 2005, 10:50 pm
Yay, this reminds me of the famous 'pk' topics on all the forums of all the UO servers -))

Some people will always be talking about facing problems, challenging bad guys, becoming better and better and better.. unable to understand that not all the others live just by the game.. that most players want to have fun, not to be 'pro gamers'.

Elephant_Hunter
August 27, 2005, 10:58 pm
quote:Originally posted by Mielosquote:They can't just play and have fun.

No they can't, because you ruin it for them with your spawncamping.

That said absolutely nothing that hadn't been said before. If you can't come up with more than one line than don't bother responding at all.

I could just as easily say:
Yes they can, because I do and I get spawncamped in nearly every game.

Stop being so narrow-minded. It's possible to have fun and play a game without accusing people of silly things.

SuperKill
August 28, 2005, 12:00 am
snowden hit the nail right there.

in much simpler words,
there's spawnkilling on purpose, and spawnkilling by needs.
i'll give 2 examples;

*if someone is hiding at the base bushes in ctf_laos, and just waits for the other team members to spawn so he could kill them, that's the low kind of spawnkilling, spawnkilling on purpose.

*but if someone is just taking the flag, and then an enemy is spawning and rushing at him with an auto\knife, the attacker (that's taking the flag) has to try and kill the defender that just spawned, out of the sole purpose of carrying the flag safely.

nonetheless, i always feel uncomfortable when spawnkilling someone, whether its justified or not.
everytime i spawnkill someone (by needs or by mistake), i feel the urge to say sorry.

that fuking sniper
August 28, 2005, 12:31 am
Aye. And in response to SeanCapsAss, yes, many clans spawn kill or camp for a short period of time when 2-3 players get into the enemy base and one grabs the flag, while the others buy him time to get out.

This is pretty much a tactical equevalent of Snowden's description of spawnkilling. Usually, one player remains in the enemy base to spawncamp even while the others leave to capture the flag. That player is only there as temporary delay and will NEVER live beyond a second respawn of an enemy, beacuse then it would be 2-3 on 1 in their own ground. Not an easy fight.

Spawnkilling and spawncamping (brief spawncamping, that is) are instinctive tactical measures taken often in clanwars to ensure a capture or another important goal.

TheRelinquished
August 28, 2005, 5:39 am
-.-

Finally, some real sense. Sniper and Superkill have just put into words exactly what I've been trying to say. Only I tend to babble and get away from my point....

Spawnkilling is not a bad thing as long as it's a necessity. Use it tactically and not abusively, because anything can become annoying out of moderation. Like useless posts for instance....

Don't be an arse with it. I'm sure, Elephant, that you aren't. Maybe that's why you don't get complaints. But it's others I'm worried about. Spawning should be a stall tactic at best, not a bunch of free kills.

UGK
August 28, 2005, 8:22 am
quote:Originally posted by TheRelinquished-.-

Finally, some real sense. Sniper and Superkill have just put into words exactly what I've been trying to say. Only I tend to babble and get away from my point....

Spawnkilling is not a bad thing as long as it's a necessity. Use it tactically and not abusively, because anything can become annoying out of moderation. Like useless posts for instance....

Don't be an arse with it. I'm sure, Elephant, that you aren't. Maybe that's why you don't get complaints. But it's others I'm worried about. Spawning should be a stall tactic at best, not a bunch of free kills.


im sure spawnkilling is fun but dont abusse it either.^^^^^thats what i mean

Deleted User
August 28, 2005, 8:49 am
Ok. We get the point. Spawnkilling is bad, unless its used strategicly rather abusively. Zambino must die for making a useless topic. -_-;

Elephant_Hunter
August 28, 2005, 9:42 am
/me brings wood and lighter fluid

that fuking sniper
August 28, 2005, 10:22 am
How is this topic useless if it has already brought about a discussion and a point?

I'm sick of seeing every topic (even though a subject of which has already been discussed) be berrated by you idiots who not only have no legitimate reply, but are just swarming upon an ideal that screams "forum vet" if you lobby to close down every bit of healthy discussion going on thos forum. Disgusting.

If you want to close down worthless topics, there are hundreds (quite literally) waiting for you in the bash pit, which, as many may not know, was a place of actual normal discussion about calling people out and bashing them, but which is now filled with inane waste of forum space.

Losing faith in this community one moron at a time.

Mielos
August 28, 2005, 11:02 am
quote:That said absolutely nothing that hadn't been said before

I know that, but because you still said that sort of things . It didn't look like you understood it

quote:It's possible to have fun and play a game without accusing people of silly things.

And you still don't understand it? It isn't possible to just have fun and play the game, if you're getting spawncamped wich is very irritating.



BobJustBob
August 28, 2005, 2:55 pm
I will occasionly spawn camp but I will only do it if I am espacing with flag or a teammate is, I usually only do it once then leave with flag or to cover FFC.

Elephant_Hunter
August 28, 2005, 4:37 pm
TFS: There comes a time to for enemies to band together against a common innocent :P I don't seriously think this discussion is unhealthy, but the people who disagree with me do. Anyhow, once we start repeating ourselves is when I feel it's reasonable to cut the conversation short. I've had my fair share of argument in this matter.

Mielos: Anything's possible if you believe in yourself xD How do you think door-to-door ministers manage to put up with all that crap they get?

The Geologist
August 28, 2005, 9:41 pm
quote:Originally posted by MuffinSpawnkilling is great. Kill after kill after kill, and they all get pissed off at you.

My policy is, if you can't beat the spawner, you don't have any right to (Please refrain from swearing) about it.


Then I expect to hear nothing but good things out of your mouth if I see you in game and spawn you with a barret from halfway across the map.