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Deleted User
September 6, 2005, 8:27 am
I have a few nags I'd like to discuss with the community, mainly concerning CTF:

First, work as a team. Working as a team helps your side achieve their goal and become the best. Working as a team does not include running towards the enemy base when someone steals your flag. Working as a team does not including running about as the opposite team floods into your base. The enemy flag is important, but when your team is getting swamped they need every man there to help.

Second, just because something doesn't go your way or your team isn't working well together, do not call them (Please refrain from swearing)s, or retards, or incompetent/stupid/(Please refrain from swearing)/lame/slow or any combination of detrimental terms. The best way to help motivate your team is with helpful insight or intelligent commands. Your team isn't playing well? Fine, HELP THEM learn, don't say "my team is (Please refrain from swearing) lololol". People learn best when encouraged, and rather than rave about how awesome you are while your team flounders, provide them with some insight and advice to help you win. And certainly, do not change teams just because you're losing. That is extremely unfair, as teams should always be balanced in a CTF match.

Third, try to keep an even balance of weapons for your team. If you see that several people are using the barret or m79, try using an automatic weapon or the desert eagles, to help promote a well balanced team.

Fourth, do not spawncamp. It is impolite, rude, and makes people hate you quicker than if you had insulted them. Everyone wants a chance to play the game, not spawn and die repeatedly. I don't care if they "can" knife you, sometimes its very hard to do that with 3-4 people nade-spamming your base. Which is another thing. It is perfectly okay to "steal" medkits and nade boxes, but don't get pissed when it happens to you, and don't play solely to steal the other teams boxes. Its pretty lame if that's your only strategy.

Fifth, if you join a CTF game, be prepared to handle the flag or score for your team. Do not sit there with the flag when you can score. It is very rude to the other players of your team. Also, do not beg or demand the flag so you can score. The point of CTF is that its a team game, and whomever has managed to capture the flag deserves the points for his risks and hard work, so do not beg.

Finally, do not join a match and assume you have control over your team. You are no tactician. You've never seen battle, know what a war is like, and unless you're the general of some real and true army, then I don't want your advice on how to play. As a matter of fact, don't talk at all during a match. I want to enjoy the game, not listen to how some cricket punched you in the (Please refrain from swearing), and I certainly don't want to hear "double" or "triple" or "multi" - EVERYONE gets them, at least one or two a day, it is not so rare that it needs proclamation. If in doubt, just don't say anything. Communicate with your team, inform them of necessary threats or information, and keep your incidents with your dog to yourself.

Thank you.

_Mancer_
September 6, 2005, 8:46 am
"First, work as a team. Working as a team helps your side achieve their goal and become the best. Working as a team does not include running towards the enemy base when someone steals your flag. Working as a team does not including running about as the opposite team floods into your base. The enemy flag is important, but when your team is getting swamped they need every man there to help."

Agreed... people.. if your flagger is about to cap, and hes wounded, and you SEE people comming at him, DONT EXPECT HES GOING TO CAP, because chances are hes going to get owned right before he caps and you'll hear a few "WTF"s after

117
September 6, 2005, 9:18 am
Another thing is think before you do things. If your team is yelling "ENEMY AT BASE! ENEMY AT BASE!" and the flagger is no where near the base, don't return the flag, the enemy team will steal it, immediately. IF you're a flagger and low on ammo, you can spray the area to deter your pursuers, and it wont be counted as spawning as long as you keep moving away.

Captain Ben
September 6, 2005, 9:46 am
All I can think of is pressing 'Y' and saying 'top', 'low' or 'mid'.

117
September 6, 2005, 10:00 am
EFC= Top... somehow most team mates won't understand that... gah, it happens so many times...

m00`
September 6, 2005, 10:30 am
quote:Originally posted by Captain BenAll I can think of is pressing 'Y' and saying 'top', 'low' or 'mid'.


or using taunts :o

NavySeal
September 6, 2005, 10:54 am
Campers are worse, the see the flag carrier running away and still just lay down and wait for enemy to come.

117
September 6, 2005, 1:09 pm
Oh, today i had some good moments. A knifer was chasing me as a flagger, and just as he was about to kill me with melee, my team mate came from nowhere and blasted the guy...

Also, pasing team mates the flag is a good idea, if you have no health kits, and going to die, or if you know the person is better at playing 'block the enemies'. Honestly, stop hoggin the flag...

STEELIX
September 6, 2005, 1:52 pm
I enjoy talking during a match, though.

Deleted User
September 6, 2005, 2:25 pm
I appreciate the third point, as a proud Steyrtard I always ruin the happy one-shot-owning party :p

But what the hell is the last point ? What's the link between a real army officer and Soldat ?!

I also don't see why people should not chat during the match, if it's not a clanwar or something.. c'mon, it's a G.A.M.E., some of you guys take it really too seriously.. -)

lastpatriot
September 6, 2005, 2:30 pm
Lao, that would piss everyone off, to have some guy trying to lead the team with "tactics".


Deleted User
September 6, 2005, 2:36 pm
Agreed, but I still don't see what an army officer and a soldat player have in common. But english is not my mother tongue, so maybe there's some joke or something I just didn't realise -)

Deleted User
September 6, 2005, 4:01 pm
quote:Also, pasing team mates the flag is a good idea, if you have no health kits, and going to die, or if you know the person is better at playing 'block the enemies'. Honestly, stop hoggin the flag...


Passing the flag on low health has gotten me loved and hated >_<
For example, I see an m79 going to hit me, I throw the flag and it goes sailing away from the enemy and into a teammates hands.
Otherwise, I throw the flag and it goes right to the enemy...
There should be a way to aim where you're throwing the flag.

Rune
September 6, 2005, 6:00 pm
Some people could learn a lot from #2 ;o

Keron Cyst
September 6, 2005, 6:18 pm
quote:Originally posted by 117EFC= Top... somehow most team mates won't understand that... gah, it happens so many times...
I put "Enemy FC" so at least they get some sense of the purpose of the command :-P

I do everything Lapis' said except for the last one; I don't see why I shouldn't be considered a tactician, or at least a "warner"; my taunts are composed of almost nothing but CTF team commands.

.alex.oner.
September 6, 2005, 6:25 pm
pretty much all pub servers are crap, so if you are about to play one dont get to excited, cause lots will lame..

i can also name quite a few clans that lame as hell, one incident was pretty recent, b2b was fine game, then voland (2nd map), because we beat them on the previous match they started to lame like hell, all 3 minimi, and despite the lameness of the spray, they still didnt win.. overall game ended in a tie, but well-known clans you would expect not to lame so much, obviously i am wrong.. and i am pretty sure 1 member of that clan will read this, then come up with some lame argument..

*cough*{EF}*cough*skoskav*cough*

ps/ i have demo the whole of voland, so pretty pointless denieing it..

STEELIX
September 6, 2005, 6:53 pm
Very subtly changing the subject, Alex.

Elephant_Hunter
September 6, 2005, 7:24 pm
I can't say I agree with everything. I know what you're talking about, but it's all contestable material. The points I agree with are more behind-the-lines than anything. For instance, I see what you mean by your team "running about as the opposite team floods into your base", but some people are good at that. They know they can hold off the enemy before he scores, and they do their job well. So in a sense, that first point is at odds with your second point. The third point is interesting, but sometimes I enjoy playing against a team of barret-users. I think there needs to be diversity of diversity :P

Bluntly, I'm a m79 berserker and spawncamper at heart -.- Just try to see the other side of the fence. I play with the strategy available. If somebody acts like a jerk, that is his problem. I will not stop being myself for somebody who can't find a mature way of making his opinion known. There's a spawner who spawns to be an idiot, and one who holds off enemy forces while his team takes the flag.

About the last bit, I don't think you are totally accurate. Leading a soldat team has little or nothing to do with commanding an actual army. Experience in a three dimensional battlefield does not translate to the soldat world at all. I do think excessive bragging is unnecessary. There's a point where it's playful and anything beyond that is kinda annoying.

.alex.oner.
September 6, 2005, 7:59 pm
quote:Originally posted by STEELIXVery subtly changing the subject, Alex.


this topic is about ctf, and i was ranting on about a ctf game, and how people dont respect others, whineing, spraying, and other lame things.. all on topic right? correct me if im wrong..

Deleted User
September 6, 2005, 8:24 pm
Hmm...I don't think I remember all the times I've been yelled at cuz I took my teammate's flag after he dies.

"WTF!? GIVE ME MY FLAG BACK (Please refrain from swearing)ER"

Deleted User
September 6, 2005, 9:43 pm
Yeah, those are lamers more focused on scoring higher points rather then making sure their team actually scores and wins.

Anyways, some comments: If for example at ctf_b2b you're sitting on the rock, and a teammate you know is good asks you to give him the flag, chances are either he knows how to defend it, or he thinks you're better off returning rather then holding. Usually i just give it to him, other times im the one asking.

Other things, the ffc holds some importance. If you're in a ctf server and its 5v5, your whole team charges top at ctf run and captures the enemy flag to find the base empty, and then bumps into the whole team on the way back, just remember if the ffc dies and they return the flag, thats pretty much 1 more point for your enemies: Cover the ffc at all costs; always have an escort if you're not sure the ffc's path back to the base isnt 100% safe.

T-Money
September 6, 2005, 10:02 pm
quote:Originally posted by Lapis_Lazuli
Second, just because something doesn't go your way or your team isn't working well together, do not call them (Please refrain from swearing)s, or retards, or incompetent/stupid/(Please refrain from swearing)/lame/slow or any combination of detrimental terms. The best way to help motivate your team is with helpful insight or intelligent commands. Your team isn't playing well? Fine, HELP THEM learn, don't say "my team is (Please refrain from swearing) lololol". People learn best when encouraged, and rather than rave about how awesome you are while your team flounders, provide them with some insight and advice to help you win. And certainly, do not change teams just because you're losing. That is extremely unfair, as teams should always be balanced in a CTF match.


Well put. Nothing bothers me more than this, especially if the person complaining about their team is shlt.

Elephant_Hunter
September 6, 2005, 11:06 pm
quote:Originally posted by ExtracideYeah, those are lamers more focused on scoring higher points rather then making sure their team actually scores and wins.


Oh, this is the first time I can whole-heartedly agree with Extracide. Kodak moment!

Chakra`
September 6, 2005, 11:56 pm
quote:Originally posted by Lapis_LazuliFinally, do not join a match and assume you have control over your team. You are no tactician. You've never seen battle, know what a war is like, and unless you're the general of some real and true army, then I don't want your advice on how to play.



Wut in the name of Kazuki's Aunt Jeramia's nuclear fallout base full of kalishnikov ak47s and nazi memorabilia are you talking about soldier!

I been playin' Soldat since you were still s***ting in your pants son, and I served my country in the Falklands, Thailand, and Amsterdam, thus if you've ever been in the field you'd know the dangers i've seen, like rabid sheep or hormonely inbalanced transexuals. So when I give you a notion of insight live in the game while my team is falling 5 flags behind the enemy with half my team camping and the other half trying to m79 jump onto the roof, I espect you to register obey and execute!

DO I MAKE MYSELF CLEAR SOLDIER

Deleted User
September 7, 2005, 12:37 am
quote:Originally posted by Chakra`quote:Originally posted by Lapis_LazuliFinally, do not join a match and assume you have control over your team. You are no tactician. You've never seen battle, know what a war is like, and unless you're the general of some real and true army, then I don't want your advice on how to play.



Wut in the name of Kazuki's Aunt Jeramia's nuclear fallout base full of kalishnikov ak47s and nazi memorabilia are you talking about soldier!

I been playin' Soldat since you were still s***ting in your pants son, and I served my country in the Falklands, Thailand, and Amsterdam, thus if you've ever been in the field you'd know the dangers i've seen, like rabid sheep or hormonely inbalanced transexuals. So when I give you a notion of insight live in the game while my team is falling 5 flags behind the enemy with half my team camping and the other half trying to m79 jump onto the roof, I espect you to register obey and execute!

DO I MAKE MYSELF CLEAR SOLDIER


I'm already registered, and I hate hearing some random person tell me "initiate teh atteck omega- go top route every one" or "snek atk them at ther base". I never would have guessed that I should probably kill the opposing team.

a-4-year-old
September 7, 2005, 12:51 am
i don't like it when some people have taunts as where the efc is because it mostly comes out like this...
major: enemy flag carrier low!!!!!!!
*major gets pwned O_O omg!*
major: enemy flag carrier low!!!!!!!
major: medic!
major: enemy flag carrier low!!!!!!!
major: medic!
a-4-year-old:omg stfu stupid spammer!
major: enemy flag carrier low!!!!!!!
a-4-year-old:STFU
major: enemy flag carrier low!!!!!!!
yourself as joined alfa team
major: enemy flag carrier low!!!!!!!
major: teams!!!!!
major: enemy flag carrier low!!!!!!!
a-4-year-old: omg teams are 4-5 stfu
major: enemy flag carrier low!!!!!!!
major: medic!
major: enemy flag carrier low!!!!!!!
you have voted to kick major
major: enemy flag carrier low!!!!!!!
major: medic!
major has been voted to leave the game
a-4-year-old:noob
a-4-year-old:lol nice,
yourself:ty
*keep playing soldat*
*fun*
*thats how soldat is supposed to be (fun)*

Psyker
September 7, 2005, 1:22 am
here's another tip

don't play in a pub expecting team work

TheRelinquished
September 7, 2005, 2:34 am
I'm very glad to see a post like this, what with my recent experiences in CTF, and am equally pleased at the reception it has received. However, while I whole-heartedly the majority of these points, I seem to find contradiction among them.

My primary source of vexation has got to be the final point. While I agree that it is....presumptuous to "take control" of a team as soon as you enter a server, I not only believe that chatting during a game is fun (so long as you do so at oppourtune times and don't whine about "typekillers"), but that it can also be beneficial between teammates--and I mean beyond phrases such as "FFC down" or "Enemies in base!". Giving advice, such as saying, "Spas and Autos please help stop the campers in mid" on a map such as KampF, is a very constructive, and simple form of strategy. Also, asking 2-3 people to "follow high/low" to form a strike team is a simple but deadly form of organization.

This concept is synergistic with your other points: not assuming control; keeping weapons balance; giving intelligent insight/advice; and just "working as a team".

Personally, I try not to order people around, and I certainly don't tell people what to use (or what not to use), but I appreciate that when I ask for volunteers to follow me into a tunnel that some people listen. I happen to be pretty good at scrambling, and I can usually open up a base well enough for someone to get a flag. The problem is getting people behind me to make the cap.

I think that the real problem here is just phrasing what you say. Request, don't command. Because no sits down at their PC to get told what to do, and people who volunteer to do something tend to put more into it anyway.

But this is probably an obvious point that I'm just expounding....But it was worth it....

~TheRelinquished

Kazuki
September 7, 2005, 4:53 am
quote:Originally posted by Chakra`
Wut in the name of Kazuki's Aunt Jeramia's nuclear fallout base full of kalishnikov ak47s and nazi memorabilia are you talking about soldier!


:O She better leave those AK47's to me in her will. She better; in return for all these years of keeping herself a secret from me.

Aaanyway, I'm probably guilty of most of the things Lapis said, and I accept that. I don't know why, but I haven't changed it. I'm a large whiner at heart, and there's no doubting it. Everyone probably knows that by now.

But to me, it always seems like a team provides more negativity than benefit in my case. It always seems that in the most important moments, my teammates are always there to:

Nade spam me to Hell, whether I'm trying to get out of my base or the enemy team's base.
Steal my kill after a well-planned duel or 2 on 1. After the many DE bullets that I miss, finally I get the chance to defeat my opponent, and just before that last bullet hits, one of my teammates comes along with a knife or M79 and takes the kill.
It seems that when I need to kill someone the most, like an EFC or a threat to the FFC, my teammates are always there to offer their "I'll get in the way of your knife/bullet" services.
In lots of the games I play, my team will not be seen charging along-side me. Maybe it's just that they do so at different times, but it always seems like they superglue themselves to the base and nothing can change that.

Again, I'm not saying everyone is like that, and it could be just me looking at the wrong way from the wrong perspective. Every now and then I do witness quality moments, like a team rush that ends up in the whole team guiding the FFC back to our base.

But while we're on the topic of nags; the thing that pisses me off the most (and it happens in private games and clanwars, too, which pisses me off more) is the increasingly annoying nade spamming. For those of you that don't know what I'm talking about, the best way of explaining it would probably be to show you how a player acts while doing it:

An M79-er drops into the enemy base from the roof route of ctf_Voland. He shoots his M79 at the EFC, only to miss him and the other two players in that Box of Hell. So what does he do? *panic!* *NADE NADE NADE!* *E! E! E! E! E!* ... After lobbing all 5 of his nades all over the place, he kills all three of his enemies, returns the flag because it gets blasted to him, and then accidentally commits suicide by stepping on his own grenade, thus not allowing the enemy team to get a free revenging kill. And there you go, gentlemen; a heroic-looking display which forced the player to use 3 WHOLE DIFFERENT BUTTONS! Amazing!

Deleted User
September 7, 2005, 5:18 am
hmmm.. I wonder who you are refering to Kaz ;).

Anyways, about the team, my team is pretty dumb in pubs. Thats why I usually dont play in pubs at all, they seem to hurt me more than helping, I would probably do better 1v5 ;|. They usually do everything kazuki said.

TheRelinquished
September 7, 2005, 6:01 am
Kazuki speaks truth. Though I admit a sick enjoyment that I derive from a nade kill that results of some idiot standing over my last-ditch nade after he kills me. But I think we all grin at that. I think....

Most pointed was the "block your bullets and knife services" comment, which is a particular issue of mine, since I use the Spas-12 and knife almost always. It's ridiculously hard to spas someone if your teammate refuses to lose contact with your barrel. And I'm amazed at how good my mates are at playing "catch the knife".

Kazuki? Won't you turn away from good, and use your powers for awesome? Just....switch to my team. Deagles and Spas are the yin and yang of soldat. They should be united.

Amen.

*snickers*

This has been a relatively unintelligent post by--
~TheRelinquished

Kazuki
September 7, 2005, 10:19 pm
Poop - Haha, I wasn't referring to you. Though you do get annoying sometimes in that way, I still <3 you. Don't even listen to my whining. I can't control myself sometimes <_<

Relinquished - Now that I look at your signature, I notice that I've played with you while you're under the name Tex. :P I thought I hadn't played with you before.

As an addition to my post, I wanted to say that teamplay isn't all negative. Your teammates do help you in the match itself, in the sense that they take a large load off by actually doing some killing, etc. So they do help you out some. I was just saying that they tend to be very annoying most of the time. :|

Also, I thought I'd add an interesting fact; in the U13 East Pub server stats, grenade kills are in third place. There are around 160,000 grenade kills recorded, just a bit less than Barret and M79, and a bit more than Desert Eagles and Ruger. If you want to take a look for yourself, click here.

Deleted User
September 7, 2005, 10:19 pm
Don't count on anyone, unless you're playing with your clan, its up to you to get the job done, because in the end they will try to get the most points they can and not care about protecting you.

Deleted User
September 7, 2005, 11:05 pm
Im an addicted nade spammer.... I need help. Anyways, I find that soldat has gotten to be less fun recently for me due to all the idiots on public servers because of many of the previously mentioned points. I tend to just idle now on my computer and play when people ask for scrims or something.

Hitman
September 8, 2005, 7:18 pm
I love you, Chakra.

Gortaak
September 8, 2005, 7:37 pm
when ever i play ctf games, i always try to go as back up, if not cap the flag, a nice tactic i like to use if my teammate has the flag, is act as a bullet shield for him, which most people do not do, if i see someone spraying at him, ill jump in front of it, or try an occupy the other guys at the base, and provide covering fire to help him escape, and one thing i think is a must, is one person acting as a guard to help the ffc, if our flag is gone, nothing is more annoying then holding the flag by your self, when you get attacked by 3 or 4 of the other team, how are you supposed to defend your self, i can see takin on 1 or 2 MEBEY 3 ( highly unlikly unless your one lucky mo fo). i think that you should be prepared to die for the ffc, and not be too worried about your score

Yukwunhang
September 9, 2005, 7:31 am
quote:my teammates are always there to offer their "I'll get in the way of your knife/bullet" services
Hahaha. [IMAGE]

DT
September 9, 2005, 8:46 pm
I play CTF all the time and man there are so many idiots there...
Geting over 65 kills and yet we lose...
In public CTF no one uses teamwork.
No one.
Zero.
Nada.
Not even me.

wormdundee
September 9, 2005, 11:43 pm
Haha, I don't even attempt teamwork in publics. I go around killing people, returning flags, and capturing flags all over the place, hoping that my teammates will be intelligent enough to do something useful.

So many times I have returned the flag, our flagger is standing within 10 feet of it, and he cannot bloody cap! What the hell is wrong with these people? Usually what happens is that I return the flag at least 5 times, and of course our flagger never caps it. Then, the other team returns the flag once, always at a time when I don't happen to be near their base, and they cap right away.

Every. Single. Time.


GAMEOVER
September 10, 2005, 12:00 am
Well if im on a less skilled team I will guard (not camp) our own flag because its pointless when your team cant defend the flag leaving you with the enemies flag and them with yours while you get swarmed by higher skilled players. Anyone can grab a flag and run killing people off is the harder part.

Deleted User
September 10, 2005, 1:02 am
Yeah, I hate it when they can't even prevent your spawn area from being over run.