I remember 'The Prophecies'. The long debates about the Weapons Editor, and its effect on Soldat. Most of us saw it as a menace that would annihilate Soldat as we know it: others saw it as some sort of Messiah, that would rid us of Weapon balance problems forever.

Apperantly, we were all wrong, because we didn't count in one factor.

That you're all dang lazy. People still whine about the weapon balance, they still blame the Beta testers for f*cking up their precious weaponry, and that everyone uses >insertweaponnamehere< and how annoying those >weapon<tards are.

We have the Weapons editor. How much effort would it take for someone to make a better and improved weapons.ini, get it hosted on a server, and fixing it to be better and better until it reaches perfection.

Unsatisfied? Stop whining, stand up and fight! The tools are given, use them wisely, and don't expect others to make your steps for you.

Ramen.

(I am lazy but I don't complain)

go demonics go!

This doesn't really help the majority of us who have no admin access to any server not hosted off our own connection.

Yeah, that's the fun part. Because you have to ask someone who has a server, and is willing to help you. Those people aren't that hard to find, you know.

My excuse is the same as b00stAs.

problem is, it isn't universal, and it's kind of like with weapon mods "my way or the highway." people will disagree on weapon mods rendering them useless to all but the person who modded em.

quote:Originally posted by b00stARamen.

(I am lazy but I don't complain)


go pastafarians, go!

w00t spam!

FSM is my master. But, yeah, I'm too [CENSORED]ing lazy to really tinker with everything to re-balance it.

Reasons I won't make a weapon modded server.

1. I can't stay in the same server forever
2. I don't know how to make a dedicated server, so if I happen to leave...everyone doesn't get kicked out.
3. Hardly anyone will stay in my server...
4. WTF? NO M79 OR BARRET?!?! *[insert newb's name here] left the server*
5. seeing "(WM)" infront of a server scares off people

Maybe if I knew how to make a dedicated server, I'll probably password it and have cool people from the forums join...but remove the Barret, and if I'm real ticked off with one hit kill weapons, the m79 too.

quote:Originally posted by Mister Angry
5. seeing "(WM)" infront of a server scares off people


That's cos most ppl just make stupid gunzors, barrets that shoot rambo flame arrows and [CENSORED]. *thumbs down*

See, id make a wm server, i have actually made several attempts to balance out the weapons. As listed above, the problems include a) I cant really get a server, b) No one takes a wm seriously and c) There are SO many lame, and pointless wm servers filled with some uber powerful setup, everyone else doesnt bother going to wm servers.

Another problem is, have you ever been to a (wm) server? The amount, of newbies that join, is just undescribable. NO one, I say, NO one, or RARELY will ever be in a server, or even a 1.2.1 mod. No one good EVER visits them, because of c). You'd have to make the thing private to prevent an overflow of newbies from rushing in.

Btw, the fact that the default filter is set to (wm) might be 25% of this problem. O_o;

Well...it's been mentioned a couple of times, but here's my take on the whole WM thing. You insist that WM servers are the savior of balance issues, but at the same time, all the "balance issues" that you betas corrected were made because of abuse in CW's. Now, with that point in mind, realize that you cannot use WM in CW's, you have to play with the weapons that you originally balanced for CW use, but which seems to not be as balanced as you thought (though maybe more balanced than 1.2.1, that's still up in the air for me). So it would seem that you have some sort of backwards logic in the matter of WM's being the savior of weapons balance issues. That's my take on it anyways.

Wow, good point, I never thought of cw's. All that wm's are really saving is newbies from being bored for another hour, and perhaps some more legitimate public play, but thats about it.

Actually, you could probably try and use a WM in a clanwar if you can convince the other team to do so. As long as it's fair they should have no problems with it. And if the admins of a league see the weapons as unfair, they'll do something about it - I recall the last season of TNL making it mandatory to use a certain weapons mod, since people complained about certain weapons being overused.

Well the biggest problem with trying to get a clan to do a CW with you when you're using a WM is that you have the advantage of having played with it whereas they don't. A league is a slightly different matter, as every clan uses the same WM and have time to practice with it. Also, with a league, you don't normally just get up and leave because of rule changes or whatever, because it's not like there's 100 more soldat leagues you can join that are really official. Personally, I think that it'd be a big hassle to find a clan who's willing to put themselves at a disadvantage by playing WM with another clan outside of a league, and probably won't happen very often.

And btw....IE only has that many users because it comes bundled with Windows and most people are too stupid to realize that IE sucks....I guarantee that if Firefox got bundled with Windows (or any other OS company that had a monopoly in the PC market), it's numbers would jump too. :-P

Actualy , most complaints were about alot of server using horrible balances and you have to get used to everyone everytime.
Which is partialy true, alot of server turned (WM)...
I personaly don't go in there, I don't find a ruger with law shots very amuzing.
Its not as bad as they thought it would.

Plus most complaints are about bink, self bink and bugs.
You can't change it in the editor, not in the 1.2.1 anyways.

The point is it would be alot better if all the weapons were balanced instead of having to remove weapons.

Unfortanately, an agreeable balance is just impossible because people get mad when 1 weapon has an advantage over another.

"98% of the teenage population will try, does or has tried smoking pot.
If you're one of the 98% who has, copy & paste this into your signature."

LMAO

Im not complaining about weapon balance, i think the balance is perfect. Its just a matter of how good you are. I won games where all weapons were allowed, and only used my knife. Even though i won. This is a good example of the good weapon balance.

Well well well. This thread did prove to be interesting so far.

The first thing I noticed about your posts is that you only see an option in hosting a WM server yourself. However, the correct and civilised method would be presenting your weapon mod on the forums, talk with some server owners and get the civilised-soldat-players to test and play in the server.

The other thing that caught my eye is the "newbies who join the servers". Now, during the beta test, we had to choose between making a weapon balance that is ideal for Clan Wars and civilised games or a weapon balance which is fun and exciting for the common newbie. We chose the first option, and I think we made the right choice.

PG mondragon: Just an interesting thing that I'd like to point out regarding your post. Try to see the situation from a different angle: do you think Soldat is crammed with so many newbies that you can win a DM game using knife only, or that you are so good with the knife that DM doesn't prove a challange? Or is the knife a bit overpowered, therefore easy to dominate with? That's the most complex question that comes up in connection with the weapon balance in a common Soldat-player's mind. (Note, I don't find the knife overpowered, just too newbie friendly.)

quote:I won games where all weapons were allowed, and only used my knife. Even though i won. This is a good example of the good weapon balance.

You call that proof of a good balance?

Well I don't think I'll ever be happy if anything can kill in one shot, it's just irritating no matter how skilled the one using it is. And I don't think barret-users etc will accept their favorite weapon to become a two-shot killer.

I wouldn't mind the barret if there was more bink and MM fixed the accurate shot you get when you prone while flying. I don't know how many times I've binked a barretard with 3-5 bullets and he still kills me. So all I'm asking for is enough bink to make the barret unusable when being binked.

Well, unfortunately for those of us on the receiving end of that barret bullet, there's not much that can be done to nerf the barret without making it completely unusable. And as much as a lot of people would like that, making the barret and m79 unusable would in itself be unbalanced, and just a waste of a weapons option.

But Demonics, I understand why you and the other betas made the new weapon balance to be more CW friendly, but I still don't see how a WM could be the answer to weapons balance issues in CW's, unless you somehow found a way to get the entire CW community to use it (and the only way to do that is to cram it down their throats with a new soldat verion :-P).

And btw, I don't like to complain about knives too often, but for those of you who say that knife isn't overpowered, I think you're sadly mistaken. I would like to see someone win a match with just one of the other secondaries. Try winning that DM with only Socom, or better yet, Chainsaw. Or, even better yet, try beating that same DM with the "new and improved" LAW. I would think that this in itself would show how skewed the knife is in comparison to the other secondaries.

Apperantly, if you make a good weapon mod, which is balanced, there is a fine chance of some of the beta testers noticing it, and it might end up being implemented. As for having the Clan war community use your weapon mod.. I agree, that's the hardest part. But first you could test it with some friendlies, in 3v3 conditions (like a Gather). After that, you could talk to some league-poncho's to host a league with your weapon mod. The road just seems long and rough, but it's not so complicated as one would think.

I could beat a knifer with a LAW :O
Too bad the LAW's .3 second start up time can range from .3-8.0 seconds.

Its much easier and more reasonable to let the beta testing team which is an orginized team for that sole purpose to work on that.
They have the servers (Not a euro one, but still) they have the players and they make the time for those kind of things, we shouldn't hate or curse them, we should try and give our adviced and arguments in the most convincing way, that's how you get things to change, not by by whining about 1 weapon and how you can no longer own with it.


As for the barret, the thing you need to think off is both sides, you need to allow the barret user the chance of hitting the target, while allowing the opponent a chance of stopping him.
Bink is indeed a great way, you just need to find the delicate balance betwin too much bink and too little, at 1.2.1 it was too much, on 1.3 its defenetly too little.

Also personaly I think that the more factors you add to the game (self bink ehm ehm and bink) the more complicated you make it , thus going a few steps back in the race for achieving the ultimate weapons balance.

The problem starts when the AK user wants his AK to remain the ultimate weapon, and the barret user wants an easy 1 shot kill each time.
And its just a matter of how many of each you have, more AK players? or Barret players?
I've said it a years ago, and I'll say it now. (and I'll probably say it again in the future)

You don't need to ask ppl what is overpowered, just play the game and see what weapons are being used the most.

Was it that hard to realize that autos were overpowered on 1.2.1? just watch some demos from cw's, or even join a public.
Was it that hard to realize barret was overpowered in 1.1.5?
Seriously, you don't need to ask if there's a war going on, if you the see the streets flooded with soldiers.

JUST LOOK around...

Well, right now, the most common weapons I see are (In %'s)

35% Barret
30% m79
15% mp5
7% ruger

13% Every other weapon

The weapon usage percentage i just made is 100% based on my experience in running around the community. At this moment, thats what I beleive it is. I mean before, it was sucking with your best weapon, then it was 100% spas, then 100% 1 shot killers, then a period of testing everyother gun for skill, give then back to 1 shot killers, and now we're at a state where theres still alot of 1 shot killers and alot more players adapting to the weapons, but not much.

The top 3 common weapons I usually see are, first the barret, then the ruger, and Mp5.

Wow, you must be lucky to never run into a horde of m79-whoring boobs. :F

^^^ I agree exta. In my server ([GMDP] CTF), my experience is that out of my 10-slot server, i normally have about 4 people with barrets, 4 people with m79's, me with my steyr and then maybe one other person using an mp5 or something else except steyr.

Yeah, the ctf servers are the worst. The dm servers aren't as bad, but I still find myself on servers where literally everyone is using a barret or m79.

Weapon balance is excellent in more contained circumstances, but the closed beta testing just wasn't capable of simulating a situation like the current one, unfortunately.

In the end, if you can find a way to tone down the instakiller usage, fix the LAW's lag issues, and fix the hit registration, no one will have any right to complain.

quote:Originally posted by T-Moneyquote:Originally posted by Mister Angry
5. seeing "(WM)" infront of a server scares off people


That's cos most ppl just make stupid gunzors, barrets that shoot rambo flame arrows and [CENSORED]. *thumbs down*


no, the mp5 is the one with the flame arrows, the barret has no load times :/

the only way i would even give a weapons mod server a shot would be if it said something like "(WM)1.2.1 weapons" or "(WM)weapon balance public"