On my way back from U13, I must say that I am profusely disappointed with the intelligence of people these days.

To spare you a bunch of pointless mambo jambo: What good are campers if I can't rely on them for defense? If I see the majority of my team camping in my base, I'm going to assume that I can let enemies through and they'll take care of them while I happily prance back. I mean, isn't that the point of camping? To provide defense so that your flag won't captured and so that it'll give your lonely teammate some time to run away with the flag while the enemy respawns. I guess they may have been doing it just so they can pick their noses. I don't know about you, but if I'm coming back to the Bravo base with the Alpha flag after killing half of their team all on my own, I don't like to be comfronted by the other half on my right and the freshly spawned half on my left side, especially if I know that I had pretty much my whole team "defending" the base.

If you're going to camp in the base, you better be prepared to take on the responsibility. Don't think that just because you're going to hang back, you're going to get some time to relax. If you can't provide descent defense for the team, then you better be out there killing the enemy along my side.

Well, if the campers on your team suck, then what I usually do is grab a spas and a law, and just push the campers off their spots or bink them to hell, they usually start [CENSORED]ing until you tell them to get up and do something. They either leave and make room for a more supportive player or get off their arse and move. If they stay there, they're in for some annoyance. =3

And yes, I agree. Some soldat players, really dont have much common sense or ability to play such simple games DECENTLY at all. I mean, c'mon. Camping is about as easy as playing those flash banner games where you supposedly win a prize for doing something rediculously easy (Example: Shoot the ducks! ; Knock out Osama! etc...)

Yeah I know, It annoys me that people camp period but...If you're gonna be on my team camping like the lame one you are then at least hit something. I've noticed this too but never bothered to say anything. But whats even funnier is when almost all of your teammates are camping their base, and yet ONE person manages to get through all of them, steal the flag, and capture it.

In my opinion, Campers are retarded and here's my reason why.

1. If they're camping the flag and the enemy manages to take it and run they'll remain in their position.
2. If they miss and is proned, many will remain in their proned state and let you murder them.
3. They never guard their back.
4. They will locate the cheapest sniping spot possible and will reamin there throughout the game.
5. Even if their cover is blown, a camper will never move.
6. Many think they are the king of Soldat because they manage to make a simple shot while hiding in a bush.

Meh, but then again who cares what I think =
Ha! Extacide I like that, I'm so gonna try that when I'm Annoyed...

This could almost be a general rant about the skill of your team in general vs the skill of the other team.

A good camper can definatly help the defense of the base, but if the player is [CENSORED]ty then they're [CENSORED]ty. That's all there is to it. The only difference is a bad player who's camping can't serve as fodder for you.

I was in that game..or at least one of them , if you've had multiple bad episodes. And it was horrible..and it's also interesting how almost everyone to reply so far has jumped on the barretard boat and proceeded to burn it. To the best of my knowledge (or at least speaking of the incident I saw piss off Kaz ;D), it was not people camping in the traditional sense (with a barret) so much as they were hanging around in base and getting blown to bits with every wave of Alphas.

So your whining because they sucked or because they didn't do a damn thing?

Haha, Mister Angry, I like all your points. I don't know if they're all necessarily true, but it seems to be so.

Social Poison, they can't all be that bad. I'm almost certain that they just weren't trying. Seriously, if there are 4 campers in the Bravo base at Kampf, and 3 Alpha players manage to all go in there, eliminate the campers, and run away with the flag, then the cause isn't just that the campers suck that badly. I honestly believe that no one can be that bad at Soldat.

As a response to Extacide and Mister Angry, I wasn't saying that campers suck or that they're annoying, but if they try to camp and do a bad job or they just don't tend to their responsibilities as a defender, then obviously, they should stop and figure out some other way of doing things, so that at least they're helping the team somewhat. My main problem is that I'm wasting trust on people who can't really be trusted with keeping the base safe.

Edit: Geo almost hit it right in the center. They weren't all camping with barrets, but rather hanging around doing almost nothing. They spawn, look for grenades, and run around, but they "asplode" at some time in the process. I don't think you were there though, Geo. It happens a lot, so I'm sure you were there during one or more of those instances. I literally had to be the only defense of the base. Alpha waves kept flowing in. If it wasn't for my teammates distracting the enemy by being easy targets, I probably would have had a much harder time with it. I got many triples in the timespan of a minute or so. I had almost a 2:1 ratio at the end of the match without scoring, which is amazing for me since with my style of play, it's like commiting suicide. Eventually it got me wondering: "What the hell are my teammates doing? KILL SOMETHING!"

Famine, the second one.

quote:Originally posted by FamineSo your whining because they sucked or because they didn't do a damn thing?


They didn't do a damn thing because they sucked.

That's why when (if) I camp, I make sure not to miss, and to pursue the flagger guns blazing if he actually gets away.

Kazuki, I think you're my favorite player. Or at least, my favorite that I deal with often enough to remember. For one, I highly sympathize with that sad, sad game. I mean, with that many snipers, they should've been god-shotting left and right, picking off people they couldn't even see. And as for base invaders, they should've been turned into pulp.

Sadly, not all campers are good at what they do. Even though the ones that are good are hounded as "skill-less abominations" or some such. Which brings me to another point of respect for you. I'm glad that you still extend the campers, not only respect for their style of gameplay, but the benefit of the doubt. I appreciate such a fair opinion, and support it highly. I mean, soldat is an easy game no matter how you play it. No one can blame a certain style of play for someone's skill or lack thereof. And there is a definate limit, for a person of average or greater mental capacity, to which one can be bad at soldat.

A worthy rant, Kazuki. Hope to catch you in the near future.

Hahaha, I agree with you. I hate it when im spawning up and I see the flag taken away then a camper misses with his little snoopy barret and still is crouched and stays there crouched. Then I have to boost about to get the flag back but yeh its so [CENSORED]. I also hate it when snipers are in the other team and they just hide then you run by and they snipe you @_@ then you come back for revenge, and they snipe you. Lmfaoo.

When the campers just plain suck at camping is indeed the only time I'll agry that camping is retarded.

Do camping right, and you can be a real asset; I once made someone think there were three barrets camping in the lower path in Laos, when it was really just me crouched behind the alpha-side crate with a ruger. It's also great because you can piss off like half the team, and they all come after you instead of just taking a different route. For that kind of camping I tend not to use barret unless I happen to pick one up on the way or something, though.

When there's a stalemate situation going on in b2b with the teams having each other's flags, I also like to grab a barret and fire at the enemy flagger from the middle alcove; It can take a couple shots to get the aim right, but you can actually kill the flagger and cause some real confusion and panic on the enemy team. Good fun.


...Camping does have its dark side, though. For those who may want to know how to camp (more) properly, here's a list of tips:

Change your position. Any sniper worth his salt knows to move to another location regularly; as opponents get shot the first few times, they'll wisen up and come up with a course of action to counter you.
Crates are your friend. They can save you time and again, especially if the enemy has to approach from below. Just be careful, as the crates don't cover your head too well... But then again, bushes don't either.
Barret is not the only camping weapon. Conceivably any weapon can be used for camping, although the ruger is obviously one of the better choices. I've held back enemies ducked behind a crate with a shotgun.
Be prepared for close-range combat. Any camper, acting offensively or defensively, will find themselves face-to-face with the enemy. Hone your skills with the knife, chainsaw, or USSOCOM, but LAWs are best for single long-range strikes, and are useless in such situations. If the opportunity arises, you should grab any primaries that are lying around to use as secondaries.
Watch your back. Keep track of enemy movement on different paths, and get ready to possibly intercept the enemy flagger if your flag is captured.
Don't be gratuitous. Camping is not always a good option, much less the best one. Before deciding to start camping, measure the situation; are there already teammates camping? Is your team's offense having trouble capturing the flag? How is the enemy approaching your base, and with what weapons? Every player that camps is a player that isn't attacking, and no war was ever won without an offense.

In a quasi-conclusion, many people only hurt their team's chances of winning by camping, and many hate having to deal with campers. The reason why is that camping is a more mental approach to playing, but people tend to try it like they're assaulting the enemy head-first. Put some thought to it, and camping can be an all-around fun and challenging experience for everyone, regardless of who's on what end of the barrel.



...Maybe those pointers will help some people... Probably not, though :P

quote:Originally posted by TheRelinquishedA worthy rant, Kazuki. Hope to catch you in the near future.


Cheers. I'll keep a lookout for you. Thanks for the compliments, by the way. ;)

I'm glad you guys understand that I'm not picking on campers, nor am I suggesting that all campers are barreters, nor am I posting against the barret.

Good points, YoMammasMamma (<_<). You know what campers really hate? I've noticed that you can actually stop people from camping by making use of the terrain around you so as to position yourself in a place where you can hit them with your curved shots, and they can't hit you with their straight ones.

Yeah I was in that game. You were owning people with deagles, while I was harvesting campers with my saw. I find that the problem isnt the quality of campers, its just the strategy in general. one or two are fine, but when the whole team does it, they are just too easily clustered together and get picked off so fast.

Heres the real reason why mass-camping is ineffective: resource denial. After wave after wave of people trying to kill the campers, they soak up the teams health boxes and gernades. The resources respawn on the attackers side, and since there are not enough players to retrieve them, them campers have no way to heal themselves or to get more nades. This may not seem like a problem but its subtle effect adds up a lot when you realize that you have slow firing campers with no way to heal facing a lot of auto-weilding attackers who dont stop coming.
Basically, you need enough attackers to keep resources balanced.

What I like to do if my team camps is to keep hitting them with the saw if theyre on a ledge. then they fall off, and If its in b2b, its hard to get back up because of the limited jet fuel. Then they get owned, and they cry. Also, on voland, it annoys me if my teammate does that annoying prone-in-the-bridge-so-im-invisible thing. so when i respawn, before i reach the little cluster of grenades in that crevice, i toss mine at the base of the bridge. they explode on the camper, and he goes flying into the spikes. Violence is hilarious.

it's all boring since i stopped playin online...

awww poor peemonkey doesnt play online so he feels compelled to post useless posts in his spare time :P i agree Kazuki its annoying but it is about tactics not about skill. i suggest encouraging your team to try alternative tactics

HaHa kazu and you wondered why I got so pissed about em..

I get pissy, but I just keep playing. If I actually score, I scream out 'KEKEKEKE' and continue on my way.

quote:Originally posted by SwarmerWhat I like to do if my team camps is to keep hitting them with the saw if theyre on a ledge. then they fall off, and If its in b2b, its hard to get back up because of the limited jet fuel. Then they get owned, and they cry. Also, on voland, it annoys me if my teammate does that annoying prone-in-the-bridge-so-im-invisible thing. so when i respawn, before i reach the little cluster of grenades in that crevice, i toss mine at the base of the bridge. they explode on the camper, and he goes flying into the spikes. Violence is hilarious.


Hahahaha! I wonder if that actually stops them from camping, but the process is funny enough to do anyway.

Also, Taal, I did try to encourage them, but then they didn't listen, so I started whining. ;_;

quote:
Also, Taal, I did try to encourage them, but then they didn't listen, so I started whining. ;_;

Best solution for camping team-mates is switching to the other team -on the first chance- and showing them some real soldat gameplay with some talking like "You're losing-we own you-show us what you got" ,that type of tempting taunts.

Best solution is to enforce our superior knowledge and demand from the game by being elitist [CENSORED]s. Show 0-tolerance towards stupidity and 'noobish' behaviour, admin servers, and remove those who've still to grasp the most basic sense of effective combat.

Sometimes slapping on friendly-fire for a moment is fun too.

Kazuki we all know there is no such thing as a Bravo team, don't try to trick us.

quote:Originally posted by Chakra`
Sometimes slapping on friendly-fire for a moment is fun too.


Once in my server I was getting pissed at the camper noobs on my team so I enabled FF for a few seconds and butchered them all with the shotty...that pissed them off but the started moving.

quote:Originally posted by Kazuki
Good points, YoMammasMamma (<_<). You know what campers really hate? I've noticed that you can actually stop people from camping by making use of the terrain around you so as to position yourself in a place where you can hit them with your curved shots, and they can't hit you with their straight ones.


Yup, that's the kind of thing my previous post's "quasi-conclusion" would have been talking about had I made some pointers for fighting against campers--too many people just try to charge straight into the enemy base, leaving themselves wide open. When I join a server with bots on it, I usually don't even notice at first because all the players act just like them... Just running, firing, and dying. It's like the "Instakiller Loop's" younger sibling.

I think camping is fine. I think it's just funny and lame how when some campers:

-After telling you, "go, go ahead and attack I'll guard base!" they sit there with a Barrett, facing an open field or something, than someone walks along - perfect target, the camper fires, and he misses. Then the guy kills the camper whos to busy lying there reloading. I hate that.

-Maybe he's hiding, prone, facing towards their base, and an enemy who caps the flag runs down behind him and kills him. Just shoots him in the back as he's facing the other way, looking down his goddamn Barrett scope. Pisses me off man.

quote:Originally posted by MarineI think camping is fine. I think it's just funny and lame how when some campers:

-After telling you, "go, go ahead and attack I'll guard base!" they sit there with a Barrett, facing an open field or something, than someone walks along - perfect target, the camper fires, and he misses. Then the guy kills the camper whos to busy lying there reloading. I hate that.

-Maybe he's hiding, prone, facing towards their base, and an enemy who caps the flag runs down behind him and kills him. Just shoots him in the back as he's facing the other way, looking down his goddamn Barrett scope. Pisses me off man.


It pisses me off, that people resort to camping. Defending doesnt mean, *Ok, sit in 1 spot with a barret*. infact, it includes escorting, and covering. Camping rarely accomplishes what those can. A camper lodged in his base wont help you get out of a base with 3 people just as you get the flag.

Today, thanks to the help of 1 person, at ctf_run i flew in, captured the flag in a base with the WHOLE team, INSIDE the base and layered all around. I flew in JUST before the cap, grabbed it, and thanks to this guy who flew in next to me and took the kill, i made it out. Alive, and capped. If you're by yourself, people instantly think to kill you. If theres another person, it means you have another person to worry about, thus slight confusion and mayhem.

I have to give a little credit to campers. How they can sit in their same little spots game after game and still have fun doing it is beyond me.

I like having a few campers on my team. It leaves some defense for any enemies that might get by. If everyone is on offense and someone gets by (especially in the first round of the game) its an easy flag steal if they can get in and out before anyone spawns.

Campers that you can't rely on are just like any other player moving around with automatic weapons. Not everyone is going to kill every single person they run into 1 on 1, campers or other. Campers may fire and miss and die, but anyone else could take on that opponent and die. However, the campers that fire their shot and sit there reloading while they die and not even trying to pull out a secondary to TRY to live are different. It's still the same as what I just said, but I would expect anyone using a barret to have some common sense to switch to a secondary if they miss their shot. Oh well, eventually they'll figure it out... Right?... Right?...

Let's hope so, Cheese. :P

Camping during clan matches can actually be very very useful. For maps like maya, all we need is 1 or 2 players at the base with a barret/m79 as primary weapon and a m72 law as secondary, in case the first defender fails to kill the enemy, the second defender can kill the rest of the imcoming enemies. However a "unskillful" camper is unlikely to happen because people in clans are usually ok :P