Whenever I play infilitration mode, it seems that 9 out of every 10 times bravo team wins. This is because of

A) Multiple campers all around base, including a minimal two by flag
B) Bravo Respawns too quickly
C) Levels are often built too difficult for Alpha.
An Example is the one level where you have to go through base, get your flag at bottom, which people guard and camp around, then manage to survive and make it top top and get the cap, which involves dealing with more campers.

Maybe Alpha just sucks.
If you don't like it, don't play Inf.
Spawn times are the same for each team.
Make your own map if you are sooo mad.

omg liek im so mad nubs liek u 4lways flm teh thredz.

I'm just saying, it seems that alpha always loses, and no one ever wants to play for alpha, and that camping ruins it.

Don't smash everything he says into the ground like that. I think he's right. The camping around the flag is an issue.

It should be discouraged somehow... Dunno, maybe like an 'under the basket'-penalty as in basketball? Like slowly decreasing health if you stay around the flag for too long.

Yea that sounds good.

Infiltration is a delicate balance. Make the map too direct and open and people will camp the hell out of it and never let Alpha get by. It could be argued that Bravo is merely doing a good job, yet their obvious advantage outweighs that claim for the most part. Make a map more secure and I feel you have Bravos running down to spawn kill Alpha when they get the chance.

However, I don't think it's just the camping that's at issue here. It's teamwork in Soldat in general. Too many individuals trying to get the points and not enough team movement, as with CTF, and it shows twice as much in infiltration. I disagree with this 9/10 Bravo wins claim...I played the other day and the ratio was much more balanced, almost 1 I believe (5/5). And people were still camping the maps to end during some games..but also to no avail. It's rare I've seen the entire Bravo team camp, and during those times I've just left the game...sucks the fun right out of things.

But wait? What's this? A solution that involves using a modded barret which wouldn't be so camping friendly? Or even the removal of the barret from ones server? Sounds crazy enough to work...so let's just ignore it and whine about barrets and campers.

Yeah, as The Geologist said, too many individuals and not enough teamwork.

I'm just pointing out the fact that on some levels it can be a major issue, especially with majors who cant take directions for [CENSORED], they just run in like suicidal retards looking to die. It's not a rant, it's the truth.

EDIT: btw Geo, It's 1 out of every 10 in my situation suggested, simply a mere exageration.

It could be that you LOSE points for staying in the area of flag(or radius if it is not in enclosed space), so you could still do it, but with a slight penalty, it would open up space, and allow alphas a chance at the flag.

There could be more exit routes out of enclosed spaces too, especially with walls acting as cover fire.

Why is that being rude? This is an issue, we agree with you (I think?), and we want to see some change.

Edit: Suggestions follow naturally from that.

quote:Originally posted by tRaQsit seems that 9 out of every 10 times bravo team wins.


btw, 9/10 Bravo wins? 1/10 Alpha wins? That's the same thing.

Any of these suggestions sound good to me. People could do things against the problem now, however, instead of waiting.

quote:Originally posted by tRaQsNot to be rude,but I wasn't meaning to look for suggestions guys, sorry. I'm just saying though that On some levels it can be a major issue, especially with majors who cant take directions for [CENSORED], they just run in like suicidal retards looking to die.


Then say it next time.://

a perfect map would be warehouse, the best inf map

Alpha is easy, you're players just dont got the mad leet cappin skills liek i do

I totally agree that Bravo tends to win quite a lot because of camping. However, I always choose to play Alpha unless I get automatically put on Bravo. It's just more fun, especially when you own the entire camping Bravo team and steal their flag.

Actually most the time I play I play on alpha and most the time we win ^__^

In my experience, Alpha will usually win 6 times out of 10. And I'd say Alpha has the advantage on most maps too.

As far as ive seen it all depends on the people playing, its not always one team that wins. I personally like campers when im on Alpha. They are usually too stupid to move so it makes for a very satisfying kill the second time around.

I used to play inf a lot, 'twas much fun and it could always be anyone's game. Then inf_Fortress and inf_Invasion started showing up on all the servers--those two are the maps that are just plain badly designed and one-sided, and it seemed like every time I tried to find a server they were all playing those two maps at the time... I need to get back to playing inf though.

Anyhoo, the reason the two maps suck is pretty simple:

In the Fortress' case, all Bravo team has to do is camp the white flag that's so ingeniously placed in a narrow tunnel that they can access from their spawn point faster than Alpha team can. Then it's just a matter of killing the flagger when they come down to score; and of course, there's no escape from the Bravo members' barrets in such a situation.

I can't even comprehend how someone can come to the conclusion that Invasion would make even a mediocre map. The very concept behind it ruins it--Since Alpha team spawns with the objective, it's in a constant state of capture, meaning Bravo team can't get any points. The only conceivable way Bravo team can win on such a map is if literally every team member spawn camped Alpha team; and even then it'd take forever. Thank sweet Jesus McChrist that (as far as I know) this map isn't in circulation anymore.


Other than that, I have no real complaints about infiltration mode. If Alpha team is losing consistently, they're probably just being retarded and rushing straight into the enemy fire; and if Bravo team is, it's probably because they're not communicating and/or organized. Some Bravo players tend not to understand that charging the Alpha spawn isn't effective either.

Alpha teams have noob players. bravo have good.

lowhunter your an idiot

I must say, Load of bull [CENSORED].

When I go against a team of elite sniper Alphas or when they tend to camp the area around the black flag, I always end up losing. Please, The server's I go to, Alpha has a 5/10 chance to win.

You probably play in servers which are overloaded with elite snipers.... Because I find that My team loses half the time, or almost all the time, depending on what they're doing. And the usual reason for losing is that they'll do a shotty job of doing a lamer's favorite pastime -_-

*enemy reaches base*
*Bravo fires and misses*
*waits 3 secnds*
*goes through the un-prone process*
*gets ready to begin the persuit*
*Alpha scores...*

OR

*enemy comes to base*
*bravo fires*
*kills the alpha*
*another alpha charges in right behind*
*kills bravo camper*
*grabs flag*
*bravo respawns and gets ready to chase*
*Alpha team scores*

Bravo attacking alpha base (and lingering there) is a bigger problem than bravo camping in their own base, which is basically what they're supposed to do.

quote:Originally posted by ráz0rAlpha is easy, you're players just dont got the mad leet cappin skills liek i do


Or you could try and start a conversation.
Traos, I don't know where you come from or what servers you play, but here in Australia, it's pretty even.

I was on bravo and it was the alfa team that was camping, one was at the stat. gun conveniently placed within shooting range of the ONLY place bravo could leave the spawnpoint, thus making it impossible to actually play. the only reason inf is umbalanced is because of crappy maps.

Well, my favorite map is inf_Outpost. Not only does it have 2 places where you can effectively camp (bridge & turret), but it also spawn camping deternets. That's not to say some retards from Alpha will fly up into Bravo's alcolve, or vice-verca, but I like it. It's got the right ammount of death polys and powerups (I love that pred kit in the tunnel), but it's not so that Alpha is screwed, it's a fairly short map.

One time I got like 60 kills camping on the gun. Bots are stupid.

quote:[i]One time I got like 60 kills camping on the gun. Bots are stupid.

Playing against bots is stupid. >_>

No side wins the game or has any impact on what will determine the outcome its the players who do that. Any side can win thats all there is to it.

quote:Originally posted by a-4-year-oldthe only reason inf is unbalanced is because of crappy maps.


Pretty Much.

quote:Originally posted by GAMEOVERActually most the time I play I play on alpha and most the time we win ^__^


i agree... i usually play for alpha, cause i don't think bravo defends as a team, but usually we, alpha, manage to set up a few tactics and stuff.. alpha usually win.. that is if u ask me..

it's amazing how tactics always wins over ego-play(as i prefer to call it) and random spray.. It always works..

Maybe you should see playing on the alpha team as a challenge, not an unfairness?

Most inf maps are actually fun, but like said before, inf_fortress and inf_invasion are too unbalanced.

inf_fortress = Alpha wins:

-Too many entrances

-Spawnkillers with barrets can easily kill people that respawn in their sight

-Stat guns are only used by alpha, bacause when you come flying from above, you're dead, but when using a couple of grenades or grenade auncher, or you attack them from the rear, they're usually screwed.

-The tight corridors make it impossible to play a good match, because you just can't hit them when you're chasing them.

-As for flag campers on inf_fortress, bravo usually guards the flag destination (white "flag"). Was it meant to go like this?

inf_invasion = Bravo wins

-this map is too small for a good infiltration game

-3 proned barrets (hidden) + 2 stat guns can easily kill around 10 rushing alpha's.

-Bravo has the high ground (top of the bunker) while there is no (come on, do you call that jet?) jet

-The water near the red spawning point is the perfect place for irritating bravo spawnkillers.

ofcourse some maps aren't even, but in the end, no one really playes them anyway.. maps like INF_invasion can also be won by alpha.. it depends on approach!

invasion? As in that reverse Inf map where the Alpha team gets the flag right away and has to carry it in? I've seen bravo win that twice. An m79 jumper has a pretty good chance of getting through. Fortress is definatly tough for Bravo too.


The thing is definatly a teamwork issue. Take Outpost for example. If alpha just wants to run one person at a time at the initial outpost area (just past the hill where Blue likes to wait) then they're going to get smoked and bad. However, there comes that time when a bunch of alphas spawn at once and charge out at the same time. Hell even working in teams of two is better than some of these alpha players.

The key to Bravo winning is when you're on bravo, force alpha to kill you twice before they can get to the flag. By that I mean wait at least a spawn time's run away from the black flag, so when you die you can get a second chance as you come out of the spawn. On maps like Fortress you don't really have that opportunity because of the layout.

Anyways... I've seen red win just as much as blue. Stop whining :P

The biggest problem with INF is there are too many variables affecting gameplay.

Because INF has a one sided objective, the maps can be very unbalanced.
Then you have the player skill
Then if the players use barret or not.


Whereas in CTF: most maps are balanced (symmetrically, or near) so only player skill comes in.

Well duh, there's no doubt Its easier for the defenders.
Even if its just a normal CTF map.
Defenders have the luxury of respawning and defending again.
In a 3vs3 CTF for examples, the teams who wants to cap has to kill 6 players, or atleast 4. (twice each one).

Add the factor of Inf when the defending team has hieght advantage and its obvious they'll win.
A good suggestion is making inf mode in a way that the attackers have a bigger team then the defenders.
Like Inf won't be balanced like CTf. it will have 6-4 in the favour of attack.