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The Law
Soldat Forums - Soldat Talk - Weapon Balance Discussion
October 25, 2005, 2:51 am
Heh, as aforementioned I beleive the law has a bit too long of a start up time. SInce it's merely a hit and miss weapon, it should have a fairly equal ratio of hits and misses. Often i find that by the time you crouch, pull it out, wait for the small amount of reloading time/start up time, it's already to late since the enemy gets too close for it to be practical.

Also, the slight start up time is difficult to factor in when firing, since you have to move your mouse for a split second to hit the enemy.

Perhaps making the startup time slightly shorter will help with making the law a more useful tool.

There's my opinion, now add yours.

October 25, 2005, 4:09 am
I think the delay time should be abolished entirely. I realize that it was put in because people hardly ever missed with the LAW, abusing it quite severely.

An alternate solution to this problem that I think would be ineresting to try would be to slow down the missile. Not by a large factor, so as not to destroy what little realism Soldat has, but enough to be noticeable.

October 25, 2005, 4:19 am
I can only tell I love the LAW the way it is now. I've been using knife since it has been implemented I guess, but now I changed to LAW. Not because I think it's better, but because I think it needs a lot more "skill" than knife, and I always liked challenges. Compared to the Socom the LAW is very fine in my opinion. The only thing that has to be changed is the knife, it's just by far too easy for it's incredible strength.
And you know, I'm still for the idea of having the knife have a nade-like throwability, so maybe even knife could become a "skill-weapon".

October 25, 2005, 4:37 am
I'm halfway between agreeing with Mister X and Rambo. I think that the LAW does need a slight cut in start-up time. However, I just played on CTF Ownage with its 1.2.1 settings, and using the LAW was a ton easier. Too easy, as a matter of fact. I think that getting rid of the start-up time altogether might be out of the question.

As far as slowing the missle down goes, I'm not quite sure about that one. I don't think we can do that withought lowering its distance and damage down. =|

Edit: Once again, I agree with Aegis, though I still believe it needs a slight cut-down.

October 25, 2005, 4:42 am
I love the way the LAW is now. Having the ability to use it actually counts for something the way it is. IT actually seems more useful now that it is harder to use, because less people expect it.

October 25, 2005, 4:43 am
How about a VERY short delay like the knife has? Nobody ever had any trouble with the delay on the knife-throw -- most players have learned to use it to their advantage -- so perhaps a delay that short might achieve a happy middle ground.

October 25, 2005, 5:14 am
The charge-up time is way too high. Your opponent has a lot of time to spam you with nades or bink the hell out of you before the LAW fires. Furthermore, it doesn't seem to kill on hit as often as it used to in 1.2.1, in my experience.

And no, the LAW is not useful at all anymore. So far I've only seen 3 people use it in clanwars, using it for blindshots mostly.

October 25, 2005, 5:49 am
Well, I found that it isn't the LAW's ".3 second delay" that makes it really hard to use, it's the fact that it really seems to have a variable delay. More often than not, I would crouch and hold the trigger and nothing would happen, and I crouched for well over 1 or 2 whole seconds. Now, granted, I haven't played with LAW recently, so it may be a tad different now. IMHO, the .3 delay isn't the problem, it's the wildly varying delay that makes it nearly useless.

October 25, 2005, 6:27 am
there's a delay on the knife?

anyways, I think that the problem doesn't lie so much in the law, as in the other secondaries. I think that with a little cut back on the law start up time, and a nade throwing effect to the knife that it would do the trick

Bugs Revenge
October 25, 2005, 11:53 am
Nah, don't u remember how the LAW was abushed for rushing flagcarriers?
I agree with Mr.X that it's a skilled weapon now.. a bit less startup time may help.
(-2-4 ticks, nothing more than that)

October 25, 2005, 10:35 pm
quote:Originally posted by vash763there's a delay on the knife?

anyways, I think that the problem doesn't lie so much in the law, as in the other secondaries. I think that with a little cut back on the law start up time, and a nade throwing effect to the knife that it would do the trick
Yes. There's a little wind-up animation that takes about .2 sec before the knife is actually thrown. Once you get used to it, you don't really notice.

October 26, 2005, 2:11 am
Bugs' Revenge has the right idea. :D

Also, yeah, though it's very hard to notice once you get used to it, the knife does have an incredibly small start-up time.

October 26, 2005, 3:04 am
Perhaps experimenting with giving the LAW a slightly shorter start up time on the Offcial balance test server will determine if it is made more fair, or more of a cheap weapon.

I remember the law would be abused in 1.2.1. People would just sit at a corner and shoot you when you moved near them. It was almost foolproof.

October 26, 2005, 4:51 am
The reload time could be reduced by a small amount.

Deleted User
October 26, 2005, 1:51 pm
Theres basically two options, you can either bring knife down to the level of LAW, or bring LAW up to the level of knife. I think combining both things may be the best solution. Reducing laws startup so its .15 second or .1 is a good idea because it will reduce the pull out law and kill people but still increase the effectiveness of LAW. Then make a minor tweak to knife and all is well.

October 26, 2005, 11:59 pm
I disagree with Swarmer, since the law is a very impractical weapon to reload. The reload would have to be about the same as the minigun's (or slightly over) in order to make it as fair as the rest of the secondaries (and still giving it the original startup time).

October 27, 2005, 1:00 am
I agree that the reload time could be increased. I actually like splitting the reload time, so I reload a bit whenever I have time. But especially compared to the knife, it's even unfair that the reload time is that high, because you can simply pick the knife up again.

October 27, 2005, 3:33 am
I agree that the law should have a slightly smaller start up time.

I disagree to the reloading increase.

I think that giving the law some more splash (maybe something close to an extra half centimeter added to the current radius) could help as that would give the law some type of edge over the knife.
I doubt this is possible with this weapon system, but if it is, would someone please be kind enough to tell how to do so.

Deleted User
October 27, 2005, 9:45 pm
Well I have to agree with you Rambo, in my opnion, the law should be like it was in the previous versions...you can hit or miss that's the point.
And I'm not mentioning the lag which makes, 50% of the hits no kill.

October 29, 2005, 2:21 am
Perhaps MM could make it so that going prone with the LAW makes the startup time obsolete. This would make it more difficult for a LAW user to escape if he gets rushed, and it would make it a little easier for them to fire and possibly get a hit.

I personally think that idea would ultimately make the LAW the fairest.

Deleted User
October 29, 2005, 11:28 pm
I don't think the LAW was too good in 1.2.1. Yes, it was very easy to kill with but pointless to reload in a serious match. And thats just 1 kill. Maybe all the secondaries were too good in 1.2.1 but the LAW was definetly not the one that seriously needed to be nerfed.

October 31, 2005, 2:31 am
the LAW was fine the way it was in v1.2.1. i don't see how it was ever unbalanced. compared to the m79 the LAW was nerfed in v1.2.1 and worthless in v1.3. the long reload time and the fact you have to be on the ground to fire the weapon are huge disadvatages. it was my only one shot kill weapons and my best defence against m79ers. it was one of the more difficult one shot kill weapons out there. why did it get toned down at all?

October 31, 2005, 4:33 am
we need to stop toying with everything. from the begining the law was enrfed because of over flys and blind shots. people are good with the law, and noone can handle it. get rid of the startup time, it doesnt exist, on any missle/grenade launching apparatus in the world.

my 2 cents. it was my favorite weapon, and it got nerfed several times. im tired of having to relearn everything each enw version.

why make it prone so he can have less of a chance to dodge, because you missed, doesnt mean insta death. w/e.

Captain Ben
November 1, 2005, 6:05 am
Aside from the point, I really hate how once you kill the law user, if you choose to pick up a law, you need to endure the abhorrent task of reloading it. I think that if a player kills an opponent who dies with out using their law, players should be able to pick it up and use it right away.

November 4, 2005, 6:08 am
i just got off the new test server and i was thinking that what if the LAW start up time could be burned off by holding down the shoot button like on the mingun. you could see an incoming player, hold down the shoot button to get rid of the delay and THEN go prone or crouched to fire without a delay.

Deleted User
November 5, 2005, 9:40 pm
I don't see why the delay was ever put on in the first place. I never found it to be "unfair", even when I was on the receiving end of it. LAW used to be my favourite weapon, now I hate it.

I say, remove the delay.