I'm affraid of oppening this topic but.. we need to do something about this weapon.
It's a way overused AND overpowered..
We've been disscusing it pretty much in the beta forums but.. we didn't get any solution yet.
There are some ideas about it but I ain't sure I can tell them.. :o
The good barret user could kill anyone from the edge of the screen while the enemy (with the auto or any other weapon) can't even start shoting him..
That's not realy fair, is it? so a solution for that is spraying which is REALY ANNOYING AND LAME.

Just want your oppinions, do you agree the barret is indeed overpowered?
Do you think there's any way to prevent it from being overpowered?

The first barret thread. The many ideas are the following:

- Making it prone-only fire (in mid-air too)
- No fire at all while moving
- Give it a small charge-up time (for M79 too).

Keep this thread clean folks.

- Making it prone-only fire (in mid-air too)
- No fire at all while moving

I like those 2 points and agree that barret is overpowered atm!
I hate it when a barreter hits me while running/jetting with full speed again and again! you can't do anything, just take barret and play the same and let the game turn into a barret-only match and that's not the way soldat should be played

The problem with the barret should first be taken from a certain perspective....whats wrong with it?

I believe myself that most consider the problem to be that a quick aim with barret can remove an enemy before the opponent has a chance to attack. In what genius method can this be crippled in a way that it is fair?

Forcing a barret user towards camping could deliver us towards something more irritating, and a clever user could still maneuver and be ready to fire first no matter if you implemented any of Demonic's suggestions.


I believe this problem would take some incredible ingenuity..

I think making ammo a problem would help, giving it 4 ammo should work so a quearter of the time its easy to take a barreter out because it takes ages to reload

quote:Originally posted by Bugs Revengeso a solution for that is spraying which is REALY ANNOYING AND LAME.

So is Barret.

Worst thing i know is when a barretard stops to aim and shoot. :(
And making it prone only would only cause a mass camper invasion.
I don't like campers. :(
Sorry for the unconstructive post.

demonic, i completely agree with that. and bump the power down to headshot-only one hit kill, but two shots to body, and three to leg.

Those are bad ideas. How would it make anything better if you were only allowed to camp with it?
Did anyone ever enjoy a game with barret campers? Thats just a complete ruin of gameplay.
A better idea is doing the complete opposite, make it impossible to fire if standing still/proning.
That'd sure mess up barretards like instant-Remedy!

I'm really a big fan of the prone-only fire.
no-one is going to be able to run with a 2m (or 2.50 , dunno) rifle , sniping someone else at the other side of the screen. but i guess you'll need to set the fire-delay much lower (in real life the barret fires alot quicker).

Grtz , DePhille

@DePhille
But why do we even speak about realism? Does it help us in balancing a game? I don't think so.
This game shouldn't be realistic, this game should just be fun to play, and fair for everyone.

So I stick with my idea of a delay, which would work this way:
You press the fire button, and after a given amount of time (Shouldn't be that long) the Barret fires. There'd be no way to stop the bullet again after you've pressed the fire button. This way a barreter would really need to think about his shot, for example if the enemy could have time to flee to cover and such. This would make Barret require skill finally, and you'd still have a chance to defeat the barreter when you see him.

If at all possible, can a solution be found thats capable within the weapons editor?

Why is the popular suggestion to make it easier to camp with? Barreters are annoying, but camping barreters are the most annoying of them all. Lowering the damage to headshot only kill would just make it a slightly more powerful ruger with a long reload. The problem with the barret is that it's too easy to use, especially with the new "skillful" autos. A charge-up time should turn off most of the new barretwhores, thus fixing most of the problem. An ammo decrease would help, as well.

This is entirely IMO, but after all that is what this forum is for...

The Barret is the only sniper rifle in the game. On top of this power, which is extraordinary when put in the proper hands (I've seen people who could shadow snipe one shot, get my position, and hit me for the kill right afterwards even when I'm moving fast), we have the power of the one-hit kill.

The real-life Barret M82A1 is a beast. If you get hit in the chest or head you're dead, and if you get hit in an extremity it's likely to get blown off, so you're possibly dead there as well. My proposal would require a change in game mechanics, but I think it would help. Let's say you're approching the enemy base and you get hit in the leg with a Barret shot. You take a significant amount of damage, maybe most of your health is gone, and you suffer a massive amount of bink short-term and a bit of bink long-term that does not subside until you get to a health pack. IMO, at the moment the gun is too easy to use. You die even when hit in the leg. If it was reduced to this, with head/body shots killing and leg/foot shots badly injuring, maybe it would add a degree of skill to the usage of the weapon so that those who use it would be more "snipers" than grenadiers.

Hmm, I myself like the idea of the barret doing the headshot=kill, 2 to body, 2.5 to legs, with an increased firing rate. This will make it weaker than the ruger in one sense, but will still have the scope and the potential to kill with 1 shot.

My suggestion!
10 bullets
1 Headshot= Kill
2 shots to body
2.5 to legs
and as compensation for the decreased damage increase the firing rate significantly, similar to what the deagles\spas\ruger fire at, as well as adding a bink after each shot :o

The ruger will be more powerful on body\leg shots, and the sniper rifle will have to go mainly for headshots but still would have a chance to kill them if they hit them in the body

I win QED

We already have a ruger, this would probably kill the barret, (but I'll approve it anyway) you loose. Also I fixed your post, for it had an error Keron Cyst would make. -Demonic

Chakra: I guess so but i think it's faster to change something in the code (add a feature) than to find a setting where less (you can't stop all the whining) people whine against barret users.

MisterX: I think balancing the weapons is more important than making the game look 1% more realistic. If i didn't use the example of how the barret would like in real-life i wouldn't have had any comment about making Soldat too realistic; no-one would probably notice.

Anyway , how about making the mouse move by itself? like in CounterStrike (*Cough*Cough* , atleast theres one good thing in it.). I really think that the barret should kill an opponent instantly when firing in the head or stomach , and two bullets for the legs (legshot = -70/100 health). That isn't easy to code i guess (since it's better to make it randomly move) but i really think that should solve most of the barret-problem (as far as there is any in my opinion).

Grtz , DePhille

Well the way it works here is, the more people that agree on the same thing, the more likely we'll do it and let you test it. Anyone agree with anything? Simply post and say so.

People, Soldiers are a few pixels tall: the head is one pixel big. If anyone could hit that on purpouse, he'd have a Mouse instead of a hand probably. Making the barret a two shot killer would destroy it utterly: it has always been used to blast foes with one blow from around a screen long range, not to mention the Ruger would simply be better than it, since it has a higher RoF.

^^I'm glad someone finally said that.

I think the barret just needs to have more movement inaccuracy put on it, as well as perhaps slightly decreasing the RoF.

I've never been a fan of delays on weapons, they detract from the fun of the game. While they do require more skill, they can sometimes slow down the pace and make it much harder for newbies to adjust to.

I'm all for weakening the barret a little, but do we really need to chop off it's legs and tie a 50kg weight to its neck?

DeMonIc: I can't agree on that one , the heads aren't one pixel tall , in fact they are way bigger than they appear it seems.
Try firing a guy flying up with 50-100 ping , if you aim him in the chest: headshot , if you try to give him a haircut: headshot , it's really easier than you think ; 50%of barret shots are headshot , the other 30 are in the legs and 20 in the stomach.

Perhaps the vision range should also be knocked down.
Like if you go prone you can only see as far as if you were crouched.

i disagree on only being prone when using. here's my idea:

[Barret M82A1]
Damage=495
FireInterval=240
Ammo=10
ReloadTime=320
Speed=550
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=6 to 9
Bink=70
MovementAcc=4
that's right, i decreased bink and movement acc. opinions please.

" People, Soldiers are a few pixels tall: the head is one pixel big. If anyone could hit that on purpouse, he'd have a Mouse instead of a hand probably. Making the barret a two shot killer would destroy it utterly: it has always been used to blast foes with one blow from around a screen long range, not to mention the Ruger would simply be better than it, since it has a higher RoF."

To compensate for this I am saying to increase the rate of fire significantly... Have the barret able to dump its shots after shots as fast as the ruger takes them, and all will be well with the reduced damage :)

ok when you have the barrett there should be no cursor.

Well, I like the idea of legs shot = 2
Head shot = 1.
BUT.. there's the lag thinggy which makes it impossible to hit someone's head while u realy intend to.
I have always 100 ping so I try to hit someone with barret, not his head, coz then most likely I will see it hit, but it wouldn't kill. :|

is there any way the engine can tell where bullets are coming from? i think that a legshot from certain angles shouldnt kill. but if you get in the legs vertically, because of the penetration the barrett has, it should be a one hit kill. but if the bullet hits the legs from the side wehre the bullet wouldnt go through any other part of the body, make it -50 health. one little thing about the barrett, i think the camera shouldnt follow the bullet when in sniper mode.

quote:Originally posted by DeMonIcPeople, Soldiers are a few pixels tall: the head is one pixel big. If anyone could hit that on purpouse, he'd have a Mouse instead of a hand probably. Making the barret a two shot killer would destroy it utterly: it has always been used to blast foes with one blow from around a screen long range, not to mention the Ruger would simply be better than it, since it has a higher RoF.


Demonic, you are absolutely right. I propose that Barret stay 1 shot kill everywhere (if people really want to cry, make it head and chest and leave them 1% life on limb shots, which is easily followed up by a socom shot). I do believe that the main problem with Barret is its moving accuracy and lack of bink when first being shot. I have found that even though I unload a few Steyr shots into a Barret, he still nails me almost 100% of the time if he's even decent with a Barret. I propose that the Barret gets slightly more bink when being shot (I saw there was an increase in the server, but I haven't had a chance to see how much it effects it) and a little more bink when moving. This would allow people to be able to survive a Barret more often, while still keeping the Barret a useful weapon.

Another way to make the barret not as good would to leave most things the way they are, just decrease the accuracy. The bullet count would not change, and it would still be a one hit kill. It would just be harder to hit the person.

First off, don't give it a scope. A OSK weapon shouldn't have any more advantages like this. Make the bink a little higher, maybe 20-30% higher than it is right now. Give the gun 3 bullets, make the reload time shorter.

I think that it doesn't necessarily need to be completely nerfed, just enough to make it unpopular. If you give it more MoveAcc, which I'm sure is possible to overcome, it will result in camping, making it a less attractive option for clan wars (since proning isn't going to get you the flag), and maybe publics. I'm sure 12 people camping in a server wouldn't be fun, so people would start using other weapons, which brings up discussions for other weapons (namely M79, but this isn't the right thread).

Other ideas could be decreasing its power a bit - not enough to make it a two-hit-kill weapon, but enough to confuse the Barret users, or increasing the Reload/FireInterval a bit - maybe half a second to a second.

Bink.
Even though barret supposedly has "bink" most players who can get used to aiming, the bink is non existant

I was thinking that we should add a significantly larger MovementAcc. or whatever that stat is to the barret, so as to cripple it a bit if the user is moving. However, I'm not an experienced Barret user, so I can't give a true opinion.

Have barret be extremely inaccurate if moving.

Then we'll have campers? Have the gun reload twice as slow if shot while in prone/crouch?

I'm just brainstorming here....... but I agree something has to be done.

There have been many times my clan has been scrimming some noob clan, or I'm going 1v1 low against someone in a pub...... and I'll be absolutely OWNING them. I'm 15-2, I've gotten 3 caps on them..... its pathetic..... then he just grabs barret, and he'll go 10-0 from then on... it's ridiculous...

I guess I'm lame. I just disagree with the entire situation. At most you could prevent the barret from killing on a leg shot, but even that's stretching it. I like the barret and I think that it's a worthwhile weapon. It requires some strategy to beat in the case of very skilled barreters, but otherwise it's just an M79 that shoots really far in a straight line.

I just don't see a way to get around the problem you people have with the barret unless you just ban it on your server.

Sorry to disappoint.

You do have a good point, Relinquished. Maybe the answer to balancing the barret doesn't lay in the barret itself, but the guns around it.

A suggestion would be to automatically bink the Barrett always. The barret would stay moderately binked, but would be reduced if he stands still, or reduced more if he ducks or goes prone (even more). However, this would encourage more camping.

I really like the idea of removing the cursor when not zoomed in. But this would raise camping numbers.

Maybe it should be self-binked while not zoomed; it would be nice to be able to have self, and regular bink at the same time.

I really like the idea of not being able to fire unless prone. Maybe you could also fire if you are behind a sand bag or box?

quote:Originally posted by ZamorakBink.
Even though barret supposedly has "bink" most players who can get used to aiming, the bink is non existant


The bink is still exsistant though, and with the bink the only range typically possible to hit your shot is quite close. At further distances with bink the randomness of the bullet renders teh shot quite difficult. However I think most barret users tend to wait for the bink to settle by retreating or getting closer to attempt their shot.

Anyways I said it before I am right on this one ;)
Head shot kills
Body + legs do not, reduce barret firing time significantly so the barret can be fired repeatedly, quickly.

This would allow the barret to function more efficiently when in constant motion but still allows the ability to camp. This I think overall would reduce camping as many would choose to remain in motion .
Do it do it now :P

quote:Originally posted by Chakra`If at all possible, can a solution be found thats capable within the weapons editor?


My guess would have to be either bumping either the movement bink/bink up a few numbers. It's way too easy to use, and way too hard to try and counter.

Time for me to torpedo and sink the ideas of this thread.

2 shot barret:
- Ruger would easily beat it.
- Using SOCOM for plus power wouldn't compensate the big advantage of slower fire rate, it doesn't work well with Ruger now either (although the mechanism and kill speed is similiar)
- Having it fire as (almost) fast as the ruger would only give us 2 weapons which are almost identical.

More bink and more movement acc:
- A good barret user releases his movement keys before firing, thus negating movement acc. penalties.
- More bink would just leave us with barreters coming up really close and more campers, besides bink is easily tricked by an experienced barretard.

Prone only-fire:
- We want to balance ten weapons, not totally nerf one. (Thus banning it from servers isn't an option Relinquished.)
- If a barret user would have to prone everytime he had to fire, he'd have to spend an additional two or three more seconds on killing someone, which is too slow for this game.
- This indeed would make it newbie-unfriendly, but it'd leave it neglected in clan wars too, publics would be flooded with campers.

I still think a small charge-time before firing would be a sufficient weakening (for every one shot weapon, duh). It'd just take a while to get used to, but that additional half a second before firing would give quite a chance to anyone facing a barretard, since one could have time to bink him or get in cover before the shot is released.

quote:Originally posted by MarbireHave barret be extremely inaccurate if moving.

Then we'll have campers? Have the gun reload twice as slow if shot while in prone/crouch?
That may work with the anti-camping, but it seems realy weird that it will take longer to reload when prone as in real life it will be a bit easier if anything.

First of all , the diea about the camera not following the bullet anymore is great; this also stops camping AND balances the weapon a bit more (It's already extremely accurate).

Secondly , why not make the mouse move?
It doesn't nerf the gun at all , it just stops the 100% killing rate thats all.

Maybe add recoil to it just like realistic? Barrets aren't popular in realistic mode. Just an idea.

Scope is only used by newbie players who camp, otherwise it barely comes into play. It's not the thing that makes the barret inbalanced, therefore it should be kept, to preserve the real 'Sniper' attribute of the weapon.

Recoil? To what end? By the time you can shoot again, you have already re-adjusted your aim. Barret is unpopular in realistic mode because every other gun that kills with one shot has a higher fire rate.

IMO there is enough camping already in soldat, so prone-only firing and more movement inaccuracy would only cause irritation.

I prefer the bink solution combined with 2 shot:
1 shot kill except in the legs, and a bigger bink.

I think it should stay is it is but with a law style delay as DeMonIc said. That will not nerf it too much but would require a bit more skill to use it.

quote:Originally posted by SPARTAN_IIIdemonic, i completely agree with that. and bump the power down to headshot-only one hit kill, but two shots to body, and three to leg.


Then you would just have to speed up the inter time shot...Three to a leg? ... a rugar kills anywhere in two HELLO??? you would have to make every gun weaker...Turning the barret into a scoping rugar is not gonna solve the problem...

How to avoid campers? Make it impossible to fire while standing still/crouching/proning.

Barret campers does not fill any valid function. They just ruin the game play. And any self respecting player knows not, or dares not, to camp with a barret anyway, it's just not good for Soldat.

If one after all decides to do so, camp, then you can be certain he's just out to destroy the game.
So why not deprive him of that possibility? Is it even possible to disagree with this?

I really, really dislike the idea about Barret only killing in 1 shot when it hits the head or anything else. Look, in games like CS this works, because there, making a headshot actually requires skill. I guess there, mostly those headshots are purposely done and not just because of great luck. But how can you actually aim at a specific part of the enemys' body in Soldat? You can't! So it would be totally random whether or not you die if you get hit by a Barret or not.

I still believe the delay as explained would work:
quote:Originally posted by MisterXSo I stick with my idea of a delay, which would work this way:
You press the fire button, and after a given amount of time (Shouldn't be that long) the Barret fires. There'd be no way to stop the bullet again after you've pressed the fire button. This way a barreter would really need to think about his shot, for example if the enemy could have time to flee to cover and such. This would make Barret require skill finally, and you'd still have a chance to defeat the barreter when you see him.

@Avskum
Yes, you can disagree :) Especially in Michal's point of view: He also wants the game to be fun for everyone, not only totally balanced and fair. Perhaps for team games it would be more fair if barreters couldn't camp anymore, but it's simply fun for many players I guess, if only because it's still a sniper weapon. I doubt Michal would ever agree to making Barret unable to fire while standing still, crouching or proning.
And yet again, the idea of a delay would also be helpful against barretcampers. You'd be able to get much closer to the camper, and perhaps even get to cover before he can shoot. Not speaking of the aiming getting a little harder.

Does anyone think the ammo clip should at least be lowered. How ofton do you reload your barret? You pretty much die before you get to reload....

Important EDIT: I know the barret does need a nerf...HOWEVER If we do nerf the barret a bit, everyone will run to te m79. Then Soldat will go from the Barret - M79 era straight to the just plain M79 era...

quote:Originally posted by Mister AngryDoes anyone think the ammo clip should at least be lowered. How ofton do you reload your barret? You pretty much die before you get to reload....This is a great idea. Most of the ideas here focus on a straightforward nerf of the Barret. However, decreasing the clip size would reduce the Barret's ability to continuously dominate games, while allowing it to retain its essential capabilities such as the scope and one-shot-kill. I'd say a clip holding 4 or 5 rounds would solve the problem nicely.

That's an idea, though it won't solve the problem we actually have with Barret. The problem is the chance 1 guy has (or more likely doesn't have) against 1 barreter, not how the Barret does in the whole game, mainly. Still it might be a good change.

A relatively skilled barreter while still own in a 3v3 clan war, regardless if he has 10 rounds, or 5 rounds....maybe they should bake it 2 rounds....

A delay, like the law, is starting to sound like a good idea to me.

As I said, my idea for a delay would be different. You would press the fire button, it'd take a while until it fires. But you'd have no chance to stop your bullet again once you've pressed the button. This would also require much more thinking. Now you see an enemy, you click and fine, he's dead without having a chance to react. But with such a delay you'd have to think about if he has a chance to get to cover or to bink you before you can shoot.
Please comment on this idea, it seems to be a little unnoticed here :)

quote:Originally posted by DeMonIcTime for me to torpedo and sink the ideas of this thread.

2 shot barret:
- Ruger would easily beat it.
- Using SOCOM for plus power wouldn't compensate the big advantage of slower fire rate, it doesn't work well with Ruger now either (although the mechanism and kill speed is similiar)
- Having it fire as (almost) fast as the ruger would only give us 2 weapons which are almost identical.

More bink and more movement acc:
- A good barret user releases his movement keys before firing, thus negating movement acc. penalties.
- More bink would just leave us with barreters coming up really close and more campers, besides bink is easily tricked by an experienced barretard.

Prone only-fire:
- We want to balance ten weapons, not totally nerf one. (Thus banning it from servers isn't an option Relinquished.)
- If a barret user would have to prone everytime he had to fire, he'd have to spend an additional two or three more seconds on killing someone, which is too slow for this game.
- This indeed would make it newbie-unfriendly, but it'd leave it neglected in clan wars too, publics would be flooded with campers.

I still think a small charge-time before firing would be a sufficient weakening (for every one shot weapon, duh). It'd just take a while to get used to, but that additional half a second before firing would give quite a chance to anyone facing a barretard, since one could have time to bink him or get in cover before the shot is released.


Exactly, thus it would be harder to use and harder to master. Newbie barreters wouldn't be such a big problem then.

I still think that slightly increasing the MovementAcc and leaving everything else the same would work best. Giving the Barret drastic changes just wouldn't work.

I've played another game with barret only and i changed my mind a bit:
The barret's power is perfect , the reload time is too , same for the delays and for the bink.
But the accuracy is a tiny bit too good , maybe instead of a greater accuracy a smaller one?
Anyway , it's just an idea , i need to test it to make sure.

Grtz , DePhille

By adding delay to pretty much every weapon, like its being suggested right now, you are slowing down the game to a very large extent. Second, you are balancing weapons out by making them all similiar to eachother, which would reduce and eliminate certain "perspectives" or "dimensions" of different playing styles. I do not think delay should be added to ANY WEAPON in this next version update, resorting to other methods of balance will be more logical and may work much better after we look at hte case with what happened to the LAW.

I'm crossposting this (with some alterations) from the M79 thread because it seems relevant here too... I promise I won't do this often, mods.

Fire-delays seem really popular all of a sudden. I know I'm going to incur swarms of forumers shouting "SOLDAT IS NOT REALISTIC!" by saying this, but fire-delays only make sense for a) bulky, cumbersome systems that require electrical ignition of a propellant (the LAW) and b) throwable weapons, since you have to wind up for the throw (grenades, knife).

Soldat is mainly about firearms. Firearms fire the instant the hammer strikes the projectile, period. Fire-delays are an irrational way to balance gun-type weapons. They have no basis in the real world, and meanwhile we have an abundance of far more realistic ways to balance weapons. Why not stick with those?

I'm hoping this is just a fad brought on by all the talk about the LAW delay.

quote:Originally posted by Kazuki
I still think that slightly increasing the MovementAcc and leaving everything else the same would work best. Giving the Barret drastic changes just wouldn't work.

But this won't solve the problem we have with Barret, I guess. More MovementAcc will make the barreters be more and more unable to fire while moving. But most barreters stand still for only a split second to fire anyway, because then you are totally uninfluenced by MovementAcc. So I guess unfortunately nothing would really change.

How about if you can't shoot while prone but still have the scope.

I find camping barret users much easier to deal with then normal ones :o

Instead of nerfing the barret, you should bring the other weapons to it's level.

But once again, I don't want to change the barret, really. I never ever use a Barret, but even so, I still don't want to change it. Just wouldn't be the same.

What about giving the gun a consistent bink while outside of zoom, then when zoomed (or prone/crouch) have the bink lower?

quote:Originally posted by some_random_loserInstead of nerfing the barret, you should bring the other weapons to it's level.

This way Soldat would get easier and easier, until no skill would be needed anymore at all. Something like instagib with auto-atiming for every weapon would be balanced, but fun? Definitely not.

I believe that it has much people saying missed thing, here in brazil, the TM very is valued, until a little more than the CTF because of the lack of servers, and a great part of the players is barretards. I believe that in all game of shot always the Kill will have Arka One Shot To Kill, as well as has in the UT, CS, Quake and etc... It would be a great error to more still limit barret, already it is a weapon of very slow recharge, and requires ability for play it with good performance sufficiently. What it must be fact, is to learn to coexist this problem, as well as I is trying. ;]

Thanks. Sorry for bad english XD~

So adorable. At least he's trying :) - Demonic

Ah well, about the barret..I really hate that weapon, people that use it don't need any skills..and I gotta say that I respected people that kept using it in 1.2.1, because back then it was hard to kill with it.
Now in 1.3..it's just crap, evrybody can just kill easily, it's doesn't requite any special kills, let's call it "point and click".
Anyways I believe, that it should be binked more, to make it harder.
and I hate it seriously, buuut, I don't mind people picking it, as long as the WHOLE team pick it, and they don't camp.

quote:Originally posted by OuchekAh well, about the barret..I really hate that weapon, people that use it don't need any skills..and I gotta say that I respected people that kept using it in 1.2.1, because back then it was hard to kill with it.
Now in 1.3..it's just crap, evrybody can just kill easily, it's doesn't requite any special kills, let's call it "point and click".
Anyways I believe, that it should be binked more, to make it harder.
and I hate it seriously, buuut, I don't mind people picking it, as long as the WHOLE team pick it, and they don't camp.


Back in 1.1.5 with the barret if you had a person down and to your left it was impossible to miss with the barret :P (Or maybe it was down and to the right?)

Either way the barret is harder than it use to be

I am warming up to the idea of implimenting a delay...

I think the delay coupled WITH the removal of the cursor/sniper line unless prone...only prone...(you would have more proned campers...which is ok...because if they miss...they have to stand up...and by the time they do...they're dead)..would be a strong enough way to nerf the barret. It'd still be a strong weapon in the sense that it still has instagib capabilities...however it becomes a respectable weapon once again.

I'd say change the Barret to hit 90% or so to the chest which would still make headshots one hit kills and would likely kill any slightly wounded soldier in the chest anyway, give it a small delay (to require greater skill to get a one hit kill on the head), and increasing bink a bit. I'm already testing this on a weapon mod (except it's shooting flame arrows right now which defeats the purpose because flame arrows are one hit kills with a direct hit regardless of the damage.) To all those that think that would make the Barret just another Ruger, try it for yourself on a weapon mod and you'll notice it's not.

Removing the cursor too would be over-nerfing it I think. I mean, no one except peope who have a crosshair for a contact-lense can aim without a crosshair with the barret, because the long time between two shots you can't rely on re-adjusting your aim judging by your last bullet.

Phoenix star, maybe in pubs it would be neat to have a barret like that, people are mostly injured when you encounter them, but in competitive games a weapon like that would be useless. For once it's hard to make a headshot on purpouse, because the Soldier's aren't very big and the netcode isn't perfect. Barret has always been a one-shotter, why take that away?

well, for those "it is too easy to use" -players:

If it is too easy to use, why dont you use it, im sure you want to win clanwars.
"..It needs no skill.." Name a good barretard and go a 1v1 with barrett, more skilled will win.

It has moving bink, NO ONE can be 100% accurate, because it sometimes shoots at random directions.
Once you miss, you are dead.

Remove the crosshair:
Would make it very hard, but then there should be no such big moving bink.

Only crouch weapon:
Wanna see campers in clanwars?

IMO, Soldier should be slower with barrett.

arg, as i've just posted in the m79 topic..
I don't think delay would be a good idea, actualy it would be a bad one.
you'r taking the example of the LAW, but you'r forgetting two major facts..
1.LAW IS A SECONDARY WEAPON.
2.LAW HAS NO BINK.

now, when a barret user would see an enemy, he would have the delay.. while trying to shot him his enemy would spray his ass already and the barretuser would have no chance beating him (i'm talking about both skilled guys.)
Moreover, it would reduce the whole fun of the game and the barret using (NO, I'M not a barret using but I'm talking for them as well, there's no need to nerf it that much, there must be other way.

Bugs it shows that you're not a barret user, since your suggestion and the reasons / argument behind it is very unstable. Soldat's a fast paced game, and if prone-only fire was implemented, barreters would be slowed down so much that they would not stand a chance in normal battle anymore. Out of the two weakening options, the charge-time is the better one, because barret users would still have the advantage of movement.

It's not so bad once you get some decent bink on them, but with the selfbink and something like 20m between you and your barreting foes, it's pointless to even try.

quote:Originally posted by Bugs Revengearg, as i've just posted in the m79 topic..
I don't think delay would be a good idea, actualy it would be a bad one.
you'r taking the example of the LAW, but you'r forgetting two major facts..
1.LAW IS A SECONDARY WEAPON.
2.LAW HAS NO BINK.

now, when a barret user would see an enemy, he would have the delay.. while trying to shot him his enemy would spray his ass already and the barretuser would have no chance beating him (i'm talking about both skilled guys.)
Moreover, it would reduce the whole fun of the game and the barret using (NO, I'M not a barret using but I'm talking for them as well, there's no need to nerf it that much, there must be other way.

I can only repeat myself again... we're here for discussion the balance for the beta version. This does not mean that what we get agreed on here has to influence the final version!

About the "Autouser meets Barretuser" thing: For sure, the autogunner will start shooting at the Barreter before he can do it. But that's what the delay would be ment for! Still, you're saying it as if the barreter would have a delay like 10 seconds. But that's just not the case. We'd even the delay-time and bink out, so both, the barreter and autouser would finally have the same chances, not only that the barreter has a chance to kill the autouser inbetween a second that he sees him, and the autouser not a chance at all. Because the latter is what it is like now.
And yes, it would definitely decrease the fun you can have with Barret. But think. What makes the Barret be so funny to use? It's incredible strengh! You can take out enemies in a split second and they can't even react. That's what makes the Barret be so funny. And this should remain, yes? No, definitely.. no.

Well I don't know, I realy don't
look, I hate barret, just like you.. but I don't want it to be overnerfed :\

There there, that's what the forum's for :)

I think we should start agreeing on something now (DELAY DELAY DELAY), so something can actually be put in the next beta weapons.ini.

quote:Originally posted by Bugs RevengeWell I don't know, I realy don't
look, I hate barret, just like you.. but I don't want it to be overnerfed :
I understand that you don't want it to be overnerfed. But although I hated the weapon ever since, I also don't want it to be ruined. I really want all the weapons to be nerfed, not only the ones I like for myself.
The delay is an opportunity in my opinion. It might turn out that it's useless while we're testing it. But we actually need to get to testing it! If everyone disagrees now, it won't be an option. Maybe then we won't find any other solution. But if we can actually test it, we can find out whether or not it ruins Barret. If it does, fine, we'll just get rid of it. But if it helps, then we have a great solution for a better balance.

Well, the point is that u wanna delay the barret with the m79..
It's not the same weapon at all and m79 doesn't deserves a delay.

I ain't sure the barret does anyway, only skilled barret user could tell you if this weapon would be overnerfed this way, you could check it out anyway, this weapon should be still enjoyable and PRIMARY :o

I still can't stand the idea of any of Soldat's firearm-type weapons getting a delay. Is it a gun, or isn't it? Soldat is fun because the guns behave like exaggerated versions of their real-life equivalents... if we start introducing bizarre factors like an arbitrary firing delay for the sake of balance, that's out the window.

@Bugs: Skilled barret user reporting :P I've also talked about this with another barretard (text_killer to be exact) and he agreed that the chargeuptime would be a fair tweak.

@F3nyx: When I first started using M79 I thought that the more I pushed the fire button, the longer the range was. Implement a charge sound, a small charge-up time, and voila, bizarreness turns into the fun feeling of "This is going to be huge, just listen to the charge!"

Demonic: Actually, a barret that's just barely not a one-hit kill to the chest shouldn't be useless. It should only take minimal extra fire (potentially from a SOCOM if the server is 1v1) to prevent such a nerf from being too drastic. The Barret is the only weapon that has a longer viewing range than normal, so a sniper should be able to switch weapons before the enemy even discovers his location.

EDIT: I just tested a barret that used my suggestion and it worked rather well. It wasn't always a one-hit kill, but if you were hit at all previously, a sniper shot would kill you, and a headshot would mean an instant kill. I also lowered the ammo a little just to see whether it was a good idea or if it would hardly nerf the Barret at all. It turned out to nerf the Barret for camping, but using it as an assault rifle was hardly nerfed at all. (In my opinion, the latter use requires more skill than any other weapon or tactic in the game, except for throwing a grenade against a wall and hitting someone behind you with it as it bounces off or throwing a grenade to keep other enemies away from a single enemy, and shooting an M79 grenade in front of the guy as he jumps, throwing him into the grenade as it explodes, both of which I have done to make someone look newbish compared to me.) In case anyone wants to tweak this a bit more themselves, I'll provide the exact values:

[Barret M82A1]
Damage=300
FireInterval=240
Ammo=8
ReloadTime=300
Speed=550
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=80
MovementAcc=6

Gee, how could I have forgotten that nerfing really just adds FUN to weapons?

No, actually the question "Why the hell doesn't the trigger make my gun fire?!" would remain foremost in my mind. You can shorten the range, lessen the damage and lengthen the reload time... I'd prefer that the dear M79, or even the more questionable Barret, be completely neutered or removed than be turned into this caricature you're proposing.

Like similiar suggestions, I think the upper 50-70% of the body (chest and head) should be instant kill and any hits below that should take away 80-90% health.

Objection 1: Barrett would become a "2 shot" weapon and Ruger could beat it.
Counter-objection: No. It would be no more a 2 shot weapon than the M79 is. With M79, you kill instantly most of the time, but sometimes you get only splash damage. One shot would still be the minimum required to kill, it just won't be guaranteed all the time.

Objection 2: It is too hard to aim for a specific part on a soldier's body, so it would just be random.
Counter-objection: Not really. Aiming in Soldat isn't a precise science, but precision is still a skill factor. Even if there is an element of randomness to it, the odds are still in favor of the Barretard. Remember that a hit to the legs would still delete 80-90% health, so it's not as if you can't break out the USSOCOM quickly to finish the job.

I also think the ammo should be lowered to 3-4 bullets. Like others have said, this would make domination with the Barret less effective.

Claw, I don't use the barret because:
1. It's boring
2. I like to respect my fellow players (most of the time >_>)

I'm just surprised all of the autos were nerfed alot and the two one shot kill weapons barely changed. I really hope 1.31 changes this.

Wow, took forever to read everything. Ok, time to start making mah contributions. :P

First off, I think the focus should be on making the thing harder to use rather then weaker. I think everyone can agree that being killed by a newbie whos played for 1 day is kind of annoying. In all honesty, making it weaker just ruins the concept of the Barret being a sniper rifle. As much as I hate the barret, its not a sniper rifle unless the thing hits hard.

Agree with:

- More bink

Autos dont help right now...anything that can mess up a barretards aim further would work.

- Less Ammo

I dont expect a barretard to go through 10 rounds that quickly, and whatever reduces the speed at which they kill would also help, forcing more strategy into the gun. 4-5 rounds would do it.

- Delay (Im sketchy on this)

This would definetly implement some difficulty in the gun, and would slow down barretards for a while. A delay similar to the LAW would work.

Disagree with

- Only able to fire while proning/in a still state.

This doesnt accomplish anything but forcing people to camp with the thing. Camping can be just as annoying as offensive barretards, especially when you're in a server absolutely FILLED with them.

- Damage Reduction

Ok, really, you cant turn a sniper rifle into a 2nd ruger. Regardless of what you compensate for, this is definetly a horrible idea. Shots should always kill regardless of whether they hit in the head OR chest.

HOWEVER

I do agree that leg shots should put a soldat to near death.

Personal Ideas

- Cursor moves on its own (Sways) slightly when you're aiming at a still point.

This would make camping slightly harder, and forces the camper to time his shots more then he would when just normally camping like he does now.

- Even more bink from enemy fire.

Needs more bink then mentioned above. >.>

- Less speed (Or less damage from a distance)

Im not sure about how speed would affect how powerful guns are from a distance or if its the overall power or WHATEVER it is that affects it, thing is, Barret needs to do less damage as the bullet flies farther and farther. Would nerf those annoying spawn campers completely.

In all honesty, the barret should again just be made harder to use rather then weaker. It should be set to a point that a newbie wont kill a thing in 1/5 shots. If making the bullets more random isnt the solution, I dont know what is, but all I know is, damage reduction is just not the solution.

I agree with Snowden that the Barret needs to have its damage lowered. I have tested a barret with 250-270 damage, and most of the time, it was still one-hit kill, but as long as you weren't previously hit, and you were hit in the legs or something, it wouldn't instantly kill you, unless the Barret was on berserker, in which case it would me one-hit kill no matter what unless you had a vest on, but I'm not sure how much that is useful for, so it might still be one-hit. In other words, damaged reduced to 250-270 and a small charge (not much, don't want to overnerf) would significantly make the Barret more fun and require more skill.

The problem as I see it is that an experianced barret user can run full speed and still point and click simply because he let go of the keys a fraction of a second. It could be solved various ways. The ones i can think of are...

- What if there's an extra accuracy penalty as long as the soldier is airbourne or basicly not in contact with the ground?
- As long as you have some kinetic energy in you (= moving left, right, up or down) the sight expands as if you were getting binked. Realistic? Well the .50 caliber anti-tank rifle weighs something like 20 kg. It wouldn't be a picknic aiming where you intend to.

Bleh, people still complain about the barret? Should have played 1.1.5, without bink. I really dont agree that teh barret should be touched anymore, since it's very difficult to shot in mid air and yes, it takes skill, believe it or not.

http://dyn.u13.net:6080/index.php?p=statsweapon&weaponname=Barret_M82A1&server=CTF -> This shows how in a private, barret is not used frequently, so i dont find it a problem between skilled players.

Another thing: Barret is intented as a sniper, defensive weapon, not as an offensive one, and it fits this description well.

hm, I tried the 5 bullet charge timed barret, and I kinda like it as well, I'll stick to it, I won't put my lovely barret down, whatever the version is :)

Again, just find the balance betwin too much bink, and too little.
in 1.2.1 barret was obviously dealt with.
Again ppl whined its too much and the bink was toned down, now just tone it up a bit, in the middle betwin before and now.
this how you find a BALANCE! not by trying 2 extremes and then giving up .

But if it's balanced with the current settings (1.3.1 beta settings) then why get rid of it and keep trying bink? Soldat is evolving, and through evolution we can see that bink is not enough.

Bink is surely enough.
in 1.2.1 every barretard out there whined.
It effected the use of barret.
Infact as soon as 1.2.1 came out! ALL the barret clans changed to AK!
Then the big "sprayer" cult came out.

How can you say bink isn't enough when it reduced the barret and m79 to be one of the rare weapons in the game from the most used one.

You forget that Self Bink came in, and Barret is now almost in the same role as it was in 1.2. With Charge Time, hopefully we can level the weapons. All I ask is go and try it out for more than 2 minutes, instead of whining your ass off about it on the forums. And if it shows that it utterly wrecks the barret and it makes other guns overpowered, we'll take it out.

Well, about all this 1.3.1 Weapon-Mod Balance Public Testing thingie. You know what? Who the [CENSORED] on earth gives a damn about Major's Major(1)'s and szukam_klanu[PL]'s option about Barret? At least I don't. In my opinion the public servers are the gathers of newbies, they don't even know what a clanwar or TNL/SCTFL are. It is not important to balance the public games, who the hell cares about those noobs? Honestly , people whine about barret, and meantime they use it too. What should we do? Oh noes! 1.3 is the paradise of barretards! Run for your lives! Oww come on... You want two-hit-kill Barret, huh? You want to dominate the whole game with your pro AK-spray? Yeah, sure that's the spirit...
I agree with people who say that Barret is overpowered, indeed it is, it became very easy to use in 1.3. I have used it since I started playing, it has been my main weapon, and it will remain forever (until I quit playing because of people who ruin the whole balance of it). Two-hit-kill Barret is the worst idea I have ever heard about, you want a second Ruger in the game? O rly? Good luck with it...
The charge time, hmm... that idea is much better, Barret won't be a point and click weapon anymore, it will need some skills, just like LAW (no you didn't nerf it, it is still powerful, but people don't use it, because they are just too lazy to learn it again)...
5 bullet, charge-timed Barret should be the solution of the problems, but I think will make the game more boring, because everyone will go back to AK and Steyr, you know, every knows, "I can't own you with aim, so I'll spray"...
Anyways, it's your decision, you are the ones who decide what will change in the new version and what will stay the same, and I think that the balance should be decided by the creator of the game, and not by Major(1)...
Good luck with it, you can ruin the game, or make it better, it only depends on you guys!

So for everyone saying that Barret is overnerfed in the current weapons.ini: Have you actually tried it? I'm neither a barreter, nor an M79-user, but I've just played with these 2 weapons on the TNL public server (with the current weapons.ini), and I didn't have a problem killing with both weapons. Obviously they were a little weaker, for sure. But they were nowhere near useless. Barret still has the same fairly easy aiming, so does the M79. It only takes you a little tiny bit longer to shoot, that's it. So please, actually test things before you complain about how much they ruin the game.

Yes, I tried both Barret and M79. I like the Barret this way, but it has no chance vs a steyr for example. Even if your reaction is much faster than the enemy's, you point at him, *charge-time* but meanwhile you charge the enemy starts to pump the bullets in you, and it binks, no chance of hitting him. Anyways, I like this 1.3.1 (TNL WM thingie) Barret.

No problems with them, huh? Not all of the players have a name of Major(1) and szukam_klanu[PL]...

quote: people don't use it, because they are just too lazy to learn it again
Or even closer to reality: they are fed up learning to play skilled with weapons as with every new version they will have to re-learn those skills. THAT'S the main problem.

The start-up time on the barrett acutally seems to work, even though i thought it sounded insane at first. Atleast it worked in that public server. Against better competition? Would probably be alright there too.

quote:Originally posted by text_killerNo problems with them, huh? Not all of the players have a name of Major(1) and szukam_klanu[PL]...

Yes, it's true, I've only played against noobs there I guess. But keep in mind that I'm never ever using Barret apart from fun between-the-real-match rounds, and still I didn't have a problem killing enemies. So I doubt a good barreter would have too few chances killing a good auto-user. By far less chances than before, thats for sure. But before a good auto-user didn't have a chance against a good barreter at all.

I'ts probably a bad idea to reply to this thread, but I'll do it anyway xD

I have to admit, the charge-up time on the barret sounded crazy at first, but as I thought about it it would probably be the best solution. Perhaps in the final version there could be a graphical effect, like while your charging up your usual crosshairs are replaced by a sniper-scope style one? It wouldn't have much effect on game-play (The charge-up is pretty short), but it would justify the charge-up because your looking through your scope and tighting up your aim before you fire.

quote:Originally posted by OkAgain, just find the balance betwin too much bink, and too little.
in 1.2.1 barret was obviously dealt with.
Again ppl whined its too much and the bink was toned down, now just tone it up a bit, in the middle betwin before and now.
this how you find a BALANCE! not by trying 2 extremes and then giving up .



This time I gotta agree with OK, there was no troubles with barret players in 1.2.1.

quote:Originally posted by OuchekThis time I gotta agree with OK, there was no troubles with barret players in 1.2.1.
Perhaps because it was easier to own your enemy in a lame way when spraying with AK?
And about increasing bink of the Barret: That's definitely not enough. It won't solve the problem we actually have with the Barret. The problem is that you don't have a chance once the barreter sees you, because you will be dead before you can shoot yourself. If you increased the bink, still the only way to defeat a barreter would be to blindly spray him. This really shouldn't be the only way to the defeat a barreter.

Alright, I just tried out the new, delayed Barret on the TNL server, and it gave me an idea for a sort of compromise between my old position (Barret should have no delay because that's too unrealistic) and the opinion of (extremely roughly) about 2/3 of the posters in here (Barret should have a delay). It's basically a hybrid of bink and delay.

Outline of the idea:
the Barret defaults to a "binked" state, but its accuracy increases from poor to perfect during the "charge time"after the firing button is pressed, the Barret actually fires as soon as one of the following occurs: (a) the mouse button is RELEASED or (b) the Barret "charges" to perfect accuracyif the Barret user is hit/binked while charging, the charging starts from the beginningSome minor details:
since the Barret would be more easily binked, the maximum bink would be less than its current maximum, so that quick, "unaimed" shots wouldn't be entirely hopelessas usual, the cursor would change size to reflect the weapon's accuracyThe upshot: a fairly similar effect to straightforward delay, but much more sensible. You can instantly fire a wild round, or you can take a moment to squeeze off a perfectly aimed shot. If you're getting binked by an auto and have your crosshairs on him, you can either hope that you'll stop getting binked for long enough to "charge" an accurate shot, or you can take your chances with a less accurate shot by releasing the mouse button.

Mainly, there would be no more instant unscoped kills from across the screen, but the Barret would still be able to fire instantly in a tight situation.

I'd love to post a new thread for this idea since I think it's a decent candidate for solving the current dispute, and I'm afraid people are starting to give up on this thread.

The only disadvantage I can think of so far: I'm pretty sure this couldn't be beta-tested through a weapon-mod, since no other weapon has this dual firing system.

The only real thing that makes barret annoying (imo) is people camping with it. Even if you spray them they still have pretty good aim because bink is affected less when prone/crouched. Maybe for the barret, you could make it so bink is equal when standing, crouched, or prone. It would still make crouching/prone useful for the scope, but it wouldn't really help camping if you get binked the same regardless.

Also, aside from publics, where are barrets REALLY a problem? For the most part, barreters in games with skilled players all go alt, and anyone going main route uses a semi, auto, or M79.

quote:Originally posted by AvskumThe start-up time on the barrett acutally seems to work, even though i thought it sounded insane at first. Atleast it worked in that public server. Against better competition? Would probably be alright there too.


You really think you stand a chance with a barret vs an auto user with this delay time?
pfftt

With the delay you're not even giving a man a chance to use his skills.
Vs a good auto player, even the BEST barretard wouldn't manage.
Vs a VERY good auto players the barret is pretty much useless.
I don't like the barret, never have, but atleast give them a chance to hit the target, make it harder to aim, not harder to shoot.
Bink was enough, just find the balance in the amount of bink.

I also support that guy above, who said that ppl are sick of learning to play the game from scratch everytime.

Barrett is a sniper weapon. Snipe people with it! Although you might want to bump up the firing rate ever so slightly or something to make up for the delay.

No. i want the barret the way it is, you already put an insane load time, removing the ammo and proning... it will be virtually IMPOSSIBLE to kill anything with a barret.

And just for spartan, he wants it for a 3 shot kill despite the fact the gun is so friggin powerful that it can punch through an engine block.

He just hates people who use barrets.

And don't talk of realism... you saw how fast real barrets can shoot.

But a startup time is okay, cos in snipers tend to exhale to steady the gun for firing

^ yep. i've been playing around with a mod that delays the barret but lowers the firing interval. it can fire more rapidly but you have to get a little closeer to your target to get a kill because the delay makes long-distance snipes much harder. it basically forces the barretards to get off their ass of go after the flag, but rewards them with a quicker firing interval. i think a delay in barret and quicker firing interval would be a good idea for 1.3.1. also, i'm against adding any more blink to it. it already has too much. the blink forces you camp, because how in the hell are you supposed to go after the flag when your rounds are leaving the barrel at 45* angles? that's BS.

quote:Originally posted by Phoenix Star of PBCI'd say change the Barret to hit 90% or so to the chest which would still make headshots one hit kills...
ok, listen, the barret is a .50 calibe antitank sniper rifle. if it hits you in the chest, you're done boy, and even if it were to hit you in foot, i knew of someone who was shot in the foot, and the bullet traveled up their leg into their lungs (really sick to think about), so i think that it should still be OHK, but should be fairly inaccurate while moving, and a startup time would probably be good too, just a small one tho, about half of LAW startup, so no point and click, but no wait half-a-second then pass go kinda thing.

i'm all for a delay. a warm up time would be nice as long as the shot interval is lowered to make it more rapid firing. also there should be next to nothing for blink. with this mod,

[Barret M82A1]
Damage=500
FireInterval=120
Ammo=10
ReloadTime=230
Speed=550
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=11
Bink=1
MovementAcc=6

the barret is much harder to aim, however it can fire more rapidly. if you can master the delay you will be rewarded with a quicker firing weapon. i've been testing it in my server and the hardcore barret guys seem to like it even though it does have a learing curve. there are no more camping "major" barretards either. it takes skill to master this moded barret and the n00bs seem to stay the hell away from it. camping kills are down too, and this because of the delay. the delay forces you to get off your ass and get in close to the enemy to kill. however if you master the weapon you can still make long distance shots. i think the delay i a really good idea. use my mod or play my server if you don't believe me.

How about ya keep the berret the same, but don't allow the player to switch to a secondary aswell? ... not only would this help balance, but it also has a realistic side; if you're running around with a 100 pound sniper rifle, it's not that easy to put it on your back and wip out a knife in less than a second.

Only problem is that this isn't possible through the weapon editor.

what about the idea of somehow making it so that if the cursor or the player is moving then its less accurate that way if you are running and jumping then its less accurate and also if the person you are aiming at is moving then it become less accurate. i dont know how that could be done but it would be pretty effective. this way you would not be so easily hit when you are running. in real life it cant be easy to aim and move the gun stedily.

I think a good idea would be to remove the cursor from the gun somewhat like counterstrike does. When the scope is engaged the crosshair would then activate. This seems like it would make the barret really hard to aim unless the scope is engaged.

quote:Originally posted by im SpicyI think a good idea would be to remove the cursor from the gun somewhat like counterstrike does. When the scope is engaged the crosshair would then activate. This seems like it would make the barret really hard to aim unless the scope is engaged.

Scope is engaged = you crouch or prone. This would just make people camp with Barret, which also isn't the way a Barret, or any weapon in Soldat, should be.

The best idea ive heard for the barret is simply to have the cursor dissapear while standing, it would take a lot of skill and practice to use it as an assault weapon.

Before we can decide what to do with the Barrett, we have to know what the problems with it are.
I can't be bothered, but If someone posts why the Barrett is "Unbalanced" in a nice, orderly way, we can address them one-by-one.

quote:Originally posted by Officer_BulbockBefore we can decide what to do with the Barrett, we have to know what the problems with it are.
I can't be bothered, but If someone posts why the Barrett is "Unbalanced" in a nice, orderly way, we can address them one-by-one.

It has been said so many times, you should just read some posts, even if the thread is longer, instead of starting from the beginning again with a new post.
The problem, at least for me and what I've heard from most others, is the following: When you encounter a Barreter, your chances to survive are not based on your own skill, like it is when you encounter any other weapon-user, but it depends on the skill the Barreter has. So before you have a chance to react, he can already have killed you. But because of the, in my opinion, rather easy to learn aiming of the Barret, most of the time you don't have a chance, because you are dead already.
So the way it should be nerfed is that the enemy has the same chance to kill the Barreter at the same time.

Well, there's a big problem with that.
I've been playing with the barret for quite a while now, trying to understand it better.
First of all I found it so easy to own with it.
Barret + soccom, what else do you really need? seriously, just wayyy to easy.
Sure, its harder to hit while moving, but ruger is harder, de's are WAYYY harder.

But the problem is, Barret only has 1 shot , but that shot kills in 1.
So, we should make it harder to use, but allow a way to make sure that one can train alot , but I mean ALOT! in the full sense of the word so he eventualy be very good with it.
After 1 week of playing with barret, I found myself a match for someone who has been using it for 3 years! that's just wrong!

But then we have another problem! assuming we take 2 players, 1 trains barret , the other trains one of the other weapons, doesnt matter which.
You think it will matter how good the other guy is?
No weapon is good when you're already dead.

SO!!! I thought of a way to balance this, the problem begins with the fact that once you're in the barretard's vision range, you're already dead.
SOO!! when a barret is not laying or crouching, set his vision range to be smaller then any other vision range with any other weapons.
Do that, and you'll allow time for the auto user to bink him , and if the auto user is good he will have a chance to bink him fast enough to avoid being killed.

So just incase I wasn't making myself clear, shorten the barretard's vision just a bit, to give the other player that 1 mili second to respond before being killed on the spot.

It seems to me that there are two camps of people when it comes to fixing the barret: the Anti-Snipers and the Anti-Assaulters. What must first be determined before anything else is which one of views on the subject is more "correct." Before I continue, I'd just like to note that I am of the Anti-Assaulter persuasion.

The argument given by Anti-Snipers is consistently more an argument against camping/sniping in general than any problem the barret itself possesses; in perfectly plain terms, they believe the barret is unbalanced because it allows the player the ability to kill someone without ever being seen or endangered, and with no real warning to the target.

As an Anti-Assaulter, I fail to see the logic in such an argument, as the barret is clearly designed to be used as a sniping weapon in the game, its unique scoping ability and lethal power at very long ranges being obvious implementations toward that end. As far as I am concerned, the barret is unbalanced as a weapon because it equally lethal in an originally unintended role as an assault weapon as it is in its intended role as a sniping weapon.

Additionally, reducing the barret's potential in short-range combat will not result in a rise in camping--if someone wants to camp, they'll camp. Instead, there will be a rise in the number of M79 users; a gun that, while also generally considered unbalanced, will be undergoing its own changes, and so the best way to handle things from there is in its own topic. At any rate, the point is that the somewhat common fear of a rise in camping due to discouraging the barret's use as an assault weapon is a misconception, due to the tendency of players opting for the berret over the M79 alternative as opposed to opting to assault rather than camp.


As such, it is my belief as an Anti-Assaulter that the best method of balancing the barret is an approach that discourages its use as an assault weapon.

Discuss.

I don't really agree (Still a nice post, though :) ). The Barret in Soldat is just different to the sniper rifles of most other games. In most games you can see the snipers from a higher distance, you just can't shoot them, that's their advantage. But in Soldat that's not possible. Either you can see the barreter and also shoot him, or you can't see and therefore shoot him at all. But if you don't want to be seen when using Barret, you mostly have to camp. And I don't think that's an honourable way to play Soldat, it just doesn't really fit the gameplay in my opinion. So in my eyes it more or less has to be an assaulting-weapon, which it already is 1.3. So I'm concerned about keeping it be an assaulting-weapon, but balance it at this point.

i don't know about the other modes of play, but in CTF the barret has been nerfed in 1.3. sure it's easy to rack up kills but that means nothing in CTF. you need to CTF and the barret does not lend itself well to that. remember the combat snipers of 1.2.1? you know, the guys that didn't camp, but went afer the flag, and were good at it? the move accel on the barret is so bad in 1.3 that the rounds leave at wild angles. camping s the problem with barret but the large move accel only supports camping. i think the objective here should be to make the barret harder to AIM. give the barret a learning curve so that it is hard to aim, yet fires very accurately (low to no blink and move accel). cut back on the blink, get rid of the large move accel and then add a small firing delay.

Barret campers are not efficiatn in CTF , espacialy not now when you have bink.
Not to mention the fact that 2 barretards are hardly the match against 2 autos like AK for example, it takes ALOT of team work from the barret users to make sure they use their 2 shots efficiantly, while the auto users can just shoot randomly to any of the enemies then move to the rest.
What I'm saying is that barret is a bad weapon for team work, which means that in CTF it has less efficiancy in a world where bink actualy work (example: 1.2.1)

to solve the camping problem, just add a little bit of bink (because the amount atm is useless)and to make it a balanced weapon for assualt just shorten the range of his sight while walking.

IF you do that, you balance it with the m79 since m79ers have a shorter range of firing AND dont forget the time it takes for the bullet to reach you, so the m79er will have time to aim and shoot and by the time he actualy shoots the barret user can respond in time (needs less time to aim due to great accuracy from the barret).

And with auto/semi auto users, they'll have time to see him and bink him before he managed to point-click kill them!

Voila! you balanced the barret.

I don't know how the shortened field of view should work. Would there be black bars at the borders? I don't really think that's the best solution, and I suppose a good solution wouldn't be that easy to do for Michal.
Well, we got a solution now. It seems to be working very fine, balancing the Barret.
By the way: I'm sure it could also be otherwise, so that 2 barreters could very easily kill 2 AK-users. The just need to stay at distance and shoot. The AK shots are rather slow, so the barreters can evade. The Barrets bullets aren't slow, the AK users can't :) But since that's all theory and can be seen in different way, it's no use discussing this now I suppose :) Let's just hope the way Barret will be in 1.3.1 works.