Ah yes, the ruger. Not really an eye-stinging problem, but it's worth a topic.

Have you ever tried going against two good rugerers while they are defending a hill? It's a really difficult task to best them, especially because of the high rate of fire.

My suggestion is making it like it was intended in 1.3: slow the fire rate to around 40. It was still a tool of mass destruction that way, but it had a steeper learning curve and it took more challange fighting with it.

The firing rate does seem slightly too fast.

I'm really not sure how to go about altering the Ruger, or if it's even necessary. Like last version's beta testing term, it's very hard to find a decent way to tweak the Ruger and have it remain the same overall.

I believe the ruger should have 2-3 more seconds off reload. Slightly less then m79.

Please dont kill my ruger any more! Trust me, I know from experience that it is not the easiest gun to use.

You'd think in open areas it is easy, but in fact its pretty hard to get a shot hitting mid air. It usually takes 2-3 reloads.

Also, its extremley hard to take down 2 people at once with it. Consider that, since 60% of the time you will be going head-to-head against 2 people.

We ( the beta testers ) did have a 'different' ideal for the ruger, but Michal decided against it voting it to be too boring. I can't remember it exactly, but it was basically a 2-hit-always kill, with a slower rate of fire, around about 37-38.

Maybe the damage should be tweaked so that you have to make at least one headshot to kill with two shots. Elsewise it seems like a pair of ruger users could be nigh invincible.

But I don't like rugers. So don't listen to me. =P

Making it fire slower is not the solution, if you make it slower than it is already, there will be dead ruger users all over the place from the autos. Basically what would happen is the ruger guy would get one shot off, by that time the bullets from the auto would be hitting, throwing off the aim . Then they either kill you with their first clip, or get you while you're reloading.

Unless autos are going to be nerfed.

My suggestions for the ruger: Leave it as it is right now. I really don't think its overpowered at all and this isn't my weapons bias speaking here. There are hardly any people that can use the ruger decently as it is (who haven't been using it for months already). You make it more difficult, you cut down on ruger use by a huge amount.

THINK OF THE NEWBS

The hardest part of balancing weapons is that you have to think in the new situation, not just the old one. Like I said, a slightly slower rate of fire gave us a still powerfull ruger, and when we removed bink from it, it dominated the battlefield, even though it had significant time between two shots.

I'm just saying that if every other gun gets balanced, the ruger will need a tweak too, even if it's a small one.

Yeh, don't remove the bink or anything, that's too much of an advantage, something that gives it just a tiny little boost. I dunno, maybe faster reload time with a slightly longer fire delay?

We did have a pretty good idea on ruger balance before Michal wanted to keep it this way. We could go back to that, or we could just up the bink a little on the ruger. As a rugerer myself, the bink don't really mean [CENSORED] when shot. Which is just wrong.

Well I agree with demonics, (and the spray is awful), but the time should be reduced indeed.

I agree on ruger being too powerfull. I often compare this gun towards deagles, and it feels far more powerful than deagles in this version.

A tweak would definatly be good in my opinion. Some more time inbetween shots could do the trick.

On the beta testing solution that was not implemented, I do think that was a bit overdone concerning toning it down. It should not be nerfed that harsh imo :)

I second raising the bink. That's all it really needs. Soldat 1.3 didn't take advantage of the bink feature as much as it should have.

About the reload:

the ruger so far seems to have been reloading with...watchacall it?... speed loaders? As in: When you reload, you reload every single bullet over again, and the once that you already had left in clip will go lost.

In real life you reload a rifle with Cylinder repeating mechanism by putting a new bullet in at a time, unless you have a speed loader.

My suggestion is that you should be able to reload the Ruger in the same manner as the Spas-12... you reload one bullet at a time instead of the whole clip at once.

itll put a nice feel to it. ^^

quote:Originally posted by Zegoviaput a nice feel to it. ^^


Or to make it feel even more 'rifley', after each bullet, you manualy cock the reloading bolt to reload the next bullet from the clip, fire that, repeat, and when the clip is empty you reload another clip. You could operate the bolt by pressing the fire button again or make a separate 'bolt' button.

Will this be too much trouble than its worth?

This is used on The Trenches (a ww1 half-life mod)http://www.thetrenches.net/

I'm not sure if this will fit into soldat well, but I like it on The Trenches because you realy get the feeling that its a bolt-action weapon instead of a slow semi-automatic.

Well, I suppose with the weapons editor, it could be given a clip of one with a reload time between shots...

..getting a bit fancy though aren't we.

(on another note, I'm not liking the ruger on the balance testing server right now. The speed of the projectile has been reduced by a whopping 2% (!!)... doesn't sound significant, but it means the ruger takes on average 3 shots to kill now. At least thats what it seems like. Anyone else get that?)

Slowing down the ruger's bullet is not the way to go. I think maybe a decrease in moving accuracy (by only 1 or 2 points) would help to put it on par with the other weapons. Also, I'd like it to be a two hit kill again. I've switched to ak since 1.3 came out, because I don't like it when i hit them twice and they still have a sliver of life left. A sliver is still one more shot though, even though the damage from the bullet would be overkill. There's a huge difference between 2 hits and 3 hits when your using a low ammo capacity, slow firing weapon like the ruger.

I agree with papa smurf, 2 shots will in most cases leave em with minimum health it almost forces you to use socom as a secondary. 2 shots should deffinatly kill with this gun. Adding more bink isnt the answer you already have a tough time shooting and killing 1 person when getting sprayed at by 1 or(in most cases) more guys. You have to take into account everything that happens in a game rather then just picking up the weapon itself, shooting it, and saying its overpowered. Trust me its not overpowered if anything its under powered. I can take out your average ruger user with an AK almost every time so try different scenarios guys. Here are comments I agree with and some responses to a few of em.

quote:Mancer wrote,
I know from experience that it is not the easiest gun to use.
You'd think in open areas it is easy, but in fact its pretty hard to get a shot hitting mid air. It usually takes 2-3 reloads.
Also, its extremley hard to take down 2 people at once with it. Consider that, since 60% of the time you will be going head-to-head against 2 people.

Hes absolutely right, Autos will crush a ruger user in most situations and an uneven match up will almost always happen getting nailed with 1 auto is hard enough to let off and kill em let alone 2 or more autos nailin you.


quote:Chakra wrote,
We ( the beta testers ) did have a 'different' ideal for the ruger, but Michal decided against it voting it to be too boring.

MM has to agree and work with you beta testers on this weapon as well as all others in order for their to be a good medium. Who cares if it seems boring its what your public wants.


quote:wormdundee wrote,
Making it fire slower is not the solution, if you make it slower than it is already, there will be dead ruger users all over the place from the autos. Basically what would happen is the ruger guy would get one shot off, by that time the bullets from the auto would be hitting, throwing off the aim . Then they either kill you with their first clip, or get you while you're reloading.

I agree with everything he said, nothing more to add.


quote:Demonic wrote,
I'm just saying that if every other gun gets balanced, the ruger will need a tweak too, even if it's a small one.

I agree, tweaking all other weapons and not adding to the ruger will be a mistake.

Yea rugers pretty good iv tryed it a few times and i normally end up dead when iv used all 4 bullets and im reloading then for some reason im omost immediatly sniped.

quote:Originally posted by papasurf31Slowing down the ruger's bullet is not the way to go. I think maybe a decrease in moving accuracy (by only 1 or 2 points) would help to put it on par with the other weapons. Also, I'd like it to be a two hit kill again. I've switched to ak since 1.3 came out, because I don't like it when i hit them twice and they still have a sliver of life left. A sliver is still one more shot though, even though the damage from the bullet would be overkill. There's a huge difference between 2 hits and 3 hits when your using a low ammo capacity, slow firing weapon like the ruger.


Signed, Agreed, Stamped.

I would be fine with the ruger if it was back to 2 hit kill BUT longer intervals on shots.

quote:Originally posted by OuchekWell I agree with demonics, (and the spray is awful), but the time should be reduced indeed.

The main sprayer is talking now.
For sure 1.3 verison
You should fix this:
The powerfull of those guns: Barret HK

Me, and many more realistic players think that ruger is overpowered.. its a freaking 4 bulletted barret!! Its easy to use and kills by 1 shot to head.. that sucks! I mean..... barret is the 1 shot kills gun.. not freaking ruger. so PLZ do something for that sissygun.

Well majority of people dont play in RS servs and in these non RS servs the Ruger is nothing like it is for you guys. I suggest a diff weapon balance for RS but you should do that on your own. I doubt MM will wanna take even more time to make a seperate weapons.ini just for the few RS players out there. Mod your server make your mod known get with other hardcore RS players and form a league of some sort where weapon balance is agreed upon and enforced.

Vito, you can't center weapon balance around realistic mode. I love both modes myself, but it's indisputable that most people play normal mode exclusively.

Plus, I think your complaints are unfounded. There are tons of 1-shot-kill guns in realistic mode... the Desert Eagles and SPAS-12 also kill instantly on a good hit, and the Ruger has massive recoil issues.

im a pro rugertard and i say it is overpowered, compared to the other weapons, but only when you are fighing on a long distance or not moving(i count here just jumping up and flying, cause that doesnt affect your aim much). but have you seen anybody with ruger to shoot while running?no?cause its really hard to shoot while moving, you´ve got to get stable in the air for a bit of time.but ruger defense is really annoying, cause its nearly impossible to pass the guys.
and its really horrible in realistic mode :)

anyways, dont raise its bink, cause its hard to hit someone with it then.dont decrease the damage much, a 3 shot must would make it unusable(huh, my poor english :e ). but making it kill with headshot + any other hit = death would be okey

Timmy- If you were a pro ruger user youd know it isnt overpowered for the following..

Most other guns give you a 2 kill or more chance per clip most ruger users can only get 1 kill per clip and sometimes they dont even kill 1 person per clip.

True, but ruger fires 2-3 clips while other guns fire 1, so it evens out. (For example, if you add the killing time + shot intervall + reload times for the DE and compare it with the ruger's, you'd get two numbers close to each other. That's balance on paper.)

But your left defenseless during that reload time. Reload occurs a lot more often in the ruger as compared to most weapons which means your left defenseless a lot longer during a game then those who use other weapons, secondarys being aside.

The point is that you kill one of your attackers before the reload, so you only have to flee from another one (if any). Basically all of the guns have that advantage/disadvantage, so you can't really take that as a 'major weakness'.

How do you "flee" ??
The chances are you're going to die if it's a good player.


And you can't talk just in numbers ""but ruger reloads faster""

The ruger is fine as it is. The only time it is "overpowered" is MAYBE when you're against 1 guy at long range, and even then you might miss. Most of the time, though, you are up against 2 guys at a time and therefore screwed.

What are you people all up to? The ruger is already hard to use. It seems to shoot "randomly", sometimes i get something like 90° shotting angle.. But if someone can master it, he is a happy man. Why the hell do you want to ruin all these people's skill? They already have the skill you always wanted, so leave it that way. The same should go to every weapon. Leave the hell they are, and it will be fine. If you make weapons useless it won't mean it is "balanced". No, it never be. The question is, when will you understand that.

It seems you are misunderstanding something here. The Ruger might be hard to use for someone who doesn't use it very often or who generally isn't very experienced in Soldat. But if this doesn't fit to you, you'll understand that the Rugers aiming is not random. And the aiming might seem by far less hard then. It just isn't the "extreme skill weapon" you might think of when first using it.

I'm using the ruger for over a year and it is not overpowered.

If you can't kill a ruger while he's reloading and firing you most probably are worse than that player.
Ruger is a hard weapon to use , especially in RS mode. In RS mode i change to Steyr or HK but definitely not to ruger because it gets me killed too much.

I'd also like to completely destroy the comment "Those ruger-users always shoot me , the weapon is too strong" or "I'm facing two rugers and they get me killed everytime" or "That gun is the new barret in RS". There's one simple comment for that: Those players are better than you , face it. Personally I'm using the 'Sissygun' (Vito quote) and i get owned alot , your comments will be completely death after my few lines of counter-evidence.

As said before; Deagles , Spas , Barret , M79 , ... also offer one shot one kill , but ruger DOESN'T , it only kills when it hits in the head. It is,'t a 4bullet barret because of it's recoil , if you don't beleive me i'll play a match with you , you get to use ruger and you may choose my weapon. If you're not familiar with the gun then even i (and i'm a below-avergae player) will kill you more. By using the word Sissygun (or others using XXXXX-retard) you made my view on you clear , and i don't have to type it what i think about you now because you'll probably know it already.

Please stop such little-thoughtover comments guys. It seems that many players forget that not everyone is equal in skills. Ruger can be easily owned if you are a better player than the ruger-user , and i speak with expirience. I mostly use Ruger in clanwars along with my clanmate and we often get killed both by one player without sometimes hitting him (HS can prove this , Brad too for example :P).

That's my opinion but if you all think ruger is too strong i advice to increase the power of other weapons because all i hear is "Let's weaken that weapon".

//EDIT: I can't deny MisterX's opinion "Ruger is not the extreme skill weapon" , it's true but i think that differs from player to player. Also , It isn't the easiest one to use is it? that's why i think it should stay untouched.

Grtz , DePhille

I've used the ruger a lot, so I have a good amount of experience with it. That being said, I don't find the ruger to be any more useful overall than any other gun.

Yes, in certain conditions, a good ruger user can be a force to be reckoned with; I personally find these times to be (as the ruger-wielder) when the target is at medium to long range, I'm on the ground with some form of cover, and the terrain is, for the most part, clear of obstacles. This is because the ruger can be inaccurate when you're having to move, especially in mid-air. The bullet's flight trajectory is also very straight, so there has to be a clear path between you and the target.

My suggestion? Make the ruger less accurate than it already is when moving. This way you are able to appease the players who claim that the ruger is too effective (to an extent at least), while at the same time you are able to keep the people who use the ruger happy because you're only reducing their ability to use the gun in a way that they already don't (or will learn better than to) regardlessly. People who claim the ruger is still underpowered we can then laugh at, because we'll all know that they never actually use it.

I aggree with DePhille...

Also my comment.. again. This Balance-thing won't get to anywhere. You can't make the weapons "balanced", because every player has different skills, a more skilled player may own you with any weapon, while a less skilled player may own you with only one-or-few weapon of his/her choice. Why the hell do you want to make the weapons "equal"? They never be. That is just simply impossible.

Anyways, to stay on topic: Don't touch the ruger.

MisterX: yeah, i know it isn't really "random", i have been using ruger since i play soldat (over 2 years now), and this "randomness" came in with bink. I know it can be handled, but not so easy. That's all. But true, without that "randomness" ruger would be more deadly as it is. Now it's "fine". It really requires skill - with the weapon and some dodge skills, etc - to kill.
Don't touch it.

in what context is the ruger overpowered, CW? in the public servers the ruger is weak as hell. i see ruger users doing OK on some of the larger maps but in the larger servers (20+) and smaller maps the rugers get throughly owned by autos. my ruger is a 2 shot kill weapon with low blink, but i still see ruger users getting beaten by minimis and spazs. i see rugers running away from autos, usually faling back, because the autos get in too close and due to the large blink on the ruger. is that normal? is it normal to fall back and run around all over the map with the ruger? i don't see anyone going after the flag using rugers, it's just not a strong enough weapon.

Make the reload time the same as before but just keep the damage the same as it is now.

From my time on RS, the thing is not that strong. Infact, its comparitively weak to autos if you cant kill the guy fast enough. The only difference from normal is that pretty much its 1 bullet less. If you make a clear head shot, BAM they're dead. Hit their legs or torso? Well, you got them near dead, just 1 more bullet. All of which you have to consider its major recoil, and the movement bink, making it very difficult to fire with, which definetly requires patient aiming. All of this, and you have some guy firing at you, with a good chance of killing you in a second.

Some of you can say im over exaggerating, but all of this everyone has to do unless they're dependant on lucky quick shots. My style in RS is usually super aggressive. Ill usually, and stupidly charge in blindly with a barret or deagles or my favored minimi, and kill anyone in sight, and take cover. Lots of times I wipe out the whole team, or close to it before im taken down. :D

Some of you are just trying to nerf weapons because select people are good with them.. thats not supposed to be the idea of weapon balance discussion, its supposed to well-round EVERYTHING, not just to knock one weapon down in favor of your own.

The ruger is fine as it is, though on the practice server I would like to see how a 2 hit kill ruger + slower firing intervals felt like.

Two hit kill with a slower firing interval should be the way the ruger is changed in this next version, encourage and reward precision and accuracy not fast unacurate shots. Almost everyone I see use this weapon will fire a whole clip off as fast as possible with what looks like not even aiming. The ruger is not a fast firing moderate powered weapon it is a relatively powerfull slow firing weapon used to hunt large game and id love to see it implemented back into soldat as just that.

My solution: Make ruger weak enough to be like it is now in Normal Mode in Realistic, and all the people that whine about ruger will be happy (including myself, I was never fond of how that gun was an ultimate "solo" gun)

quote:Originally posted by _Mancer_Some of you are just trying to nerf weapons because select people are good with them.. thats not supposed to be the idea of weapon balance discussion, its supposed to well-round EVERYTHING, not just to knock one weapon down in favor of your own.

The ruger is fine as it is, though on the practice server I would like to see how a 2 hit kill ruger + slower firing intervals felt like.


Lol, you sound like the Ruger version of me :O.

But anyway, i'm suprised and glad to see that it is not all 'its underpowerd! make it more powerfull because you only have 4 chances and thats unfair' comeing from this topic.