Hmm. I just want to see if anyone else agrees with me here.
I have 2 problems with the m79:
Reload time and M79 Jumping.

The reload time should be atleast a second longer. Just to make sure that the m79er doesn't get more than enough chances of shooting, escaping, shooting, escaping.

M79 jumping is probably the most annoying thing that can happen to the other team. I'm sure everyone has experienced holding the flag for a long time, then being shot down by an m79er who was 200 feet above you at one point.

Again, I don't have a strong opinion on these, just as long as others seem to agree with me.

Disagree! Disagree! m79 is fine in reload time. m79 jumping is awesome, and it takes down health from the player each time he/she boosts. Also why dont you just boost yourself with a nade.. duh.

I definently agree with the reload time being a half second/second longer.

I think that's all in map design, my friend. If you're in a position to be air-raided by an M79er, then maybe you're waiting in the wrong place, hmmm?

Not ridiculing you, I know how frustrating it feels, but I think these things just happen. It's not worth modding the game for.

I concur with the jumping. The reload I can't agree with. But I would like to see a slightly more significant bink. I've witnessed numerous m79rs being sprayed to no effect, though our testing-server has changed that! I will have to see what it's like..

I think that the reload is fine at the moment, but i do agree that the m79 jumping can be frustrating at times in which i think the amount you are shot up when m79 jumping should be brought down a bit.

If I'm not mistaken, the beta server's weapon mod has weakened M79 jumping.

As for the +1 second reload, I believe that would be a major nerf, since you'd be dead if you'd miss your first shot with the M79. Instead I suggest a small charge-time, so one would have to hold the fire button before blasting someone. That would also weaken M79 jumping a bit too.

Make the reload time a little longer, and don't touch the m79 jumping, it's a tactical part of the game....

Ok as a m79'er Ill try to be as objective as possible.

First, m79 is a popular weapon on pubs, ill agree, but additions such as increasing its bink will kill its usefulness in clanwars. Its pretty difficult right now to kill a sprayer which is just staying away and running away with a m79, it would be even more difficult with increased bink because now even if you get close, theres a better chance you will miss. I think theres 2 kind of balance to m79, 1 of Pubs and 1 of clanwars, please stay away from ruining m79 in clanwars just because its overused a whole lot in public servers.

Second, I agree with Rune, reducing its damage to reduce m79 jumping is not necesary. I also think m79 jumping is a very tactical part of the game, and anyone can boost with nades anyways, so its not like boosting is only available to m79 users. Thier boosts are just more effective.

Last, I think you should not change damage or bink, and instead concentrate on adding a bit more reload if you really want to change m79. I personally wouldnt mind something like 195-205 reload instead of the current 180 if you leave damage and bink where it is right now.

On publics, weapons that kill faster are always more popular. I have noticed that the 4 most popular weapons in publics are m79, barret, ruger, and desert eagles and those are the 4 weapons which kill the fastest. It just seems the people who havent been playing too long think they will do better with these weapons because they kill faster.

Everyone hated minigun boosting, m79 boosting is pretty much the same. The damage the player takes isn't much of a problem. Changing the bink an/or reload time seem like a good solution. I tough of giving it a small startuptime, but I guess I won't get much support for this idea.

The M79 definitely doesn't need a longer reload time... 3 seconds is already a HUGE window in which the M79 user is helpless. The jump seriously needs to be nerfed, though.

Well, I agree to Mielos. In my opinion M79 needs a delay, one like the LAW has now. I'm not sure if this would solve the problem, but definitely worth testing imho.
Simply increasing the bink wouldn't do much I think. The "problem" with the M79 is, that in ctf mostly both "sides" rush to each other in order to get the enemy flag. So it's very easy for an M79user to get to the enemy, and kill him in close range. That's very easy and too effective. So if you'd increase the bink, you still wouldn't be able to make the M79user get binked if you don't spray. A delay on the other hand could solve the problem, because it'd a) take the M79user longer to shoot b) it'd be harder.

I'm also one of those who hate M79 boosting, as well as nade boosting in general. I don't see how this is a very tactical part of the game. It might be your own fault if you don't notice a booster getting into your base. But if the enemy gets to your flag and boosts away with it, it's simply unfair. You have no chance to follow. I doesn't even take any skill to boost. So I really don't see why this shouldn't be called lame. An unfair advantage that needs nearly no skill to practive, in my opinion that's lame.

quote:Originally posted by MisterXWell, I agree to Mielos. In my opinion M79 needs a delay, one like the LAW has now. I'm not sure if this would solve the problem, but definitely worth testing imho.
Fire-delays seem really popular all of a sudden. I know I'm going to incur swarms of forumers shouting "SOLDAT IS NOT REALISTIC" by saying this, but fire-delays only make sense for a) bulky, cumbersome systems that require electrical ignition of a propellant (the LAW) and b) throwable weapons, since you have to wind up for the throw (grenades, knife).

Soldat is mainly about firearms. Firearms fire the instant the hammer strikes the projectile, period. Using a delay to nerf a weapon like the M79 or Barret makes no sense whatsoever.

I'm hoping this is just a fad brought on by all the talk about the LAW delay, but if its popularity continues then pretty soon we won't even discuss rates of fire or bullet speed/damage or accuracy, we'll just debate how long the delay should be.

SOLDAT IS NOT REALISTIC ;)
You know, we are talking about 1-hit-kill weapons here. I don't see any connection to the autos. By the way, you have given no real argument against it, have you? Only saying "It's stupid" isn't convincing..

MisterX I disagree. As I stated in my previous posts m79 is only overused in pubs but that has been that case since I have been playing soldat. In all my versions, I have noticed that the most used weapons in publics are the m79, barret, ruger and deagles and the basic similarity I see between those is that they all kill relatively quickly. Which weapons will a m79 beat if it is going against another player with a different weapon but equal skill as the player using m79? The only weapons I can honestly say are mp5, spas, and maybe the desert eagles, because every other weapon can simply pick apart the m79 user from long range and then dodge its bullets rather easily.

1. m79 does not need a startup time, this would simply be stupid and redundant because m79 is not "overpowered", just overused. Implementing a delay to more weapons woul djust slow down the game even more. And didnt we learn a lesson from what happened to LAW with the delay time? Lets just not make the same mistake again.
2. Bink would not significantly drop usage of m79, because in public servers, where everyone is everywhere, people arent paying attention, m79 will still get those kills rather easily. In pubs very few people chase, very few people play tactically, and that is a major reason why m79 prospers in the public servers. However bink will severely damage people who use m79 in clanwars, because now if someone is playing a defensive style and simply staying away from the m79 user and spraying a ruger or auto, the m79 has no chance other than getting close and trying to hit with 1 shot(the m79 user has basically 1 chance). With bink getting close and then missing is a much larger possibility.
3. I consider m79 boosting tactical because its like in psychology, a "Flight or Fight" response. If you decide to boost and try to run away, you are giving up attempting to kill the enemy and thus risking getting killed by the enemy you didnt kill or getting double teamed if someone is waiting in front of you for you, on the contrary if you try to kill the enemy and not boost, you are risking getting killed by someone else who may have just respawned, or missing and then getting killed by the same person you couldnt kill. And saying killing a m79 booster is impossible is absolutely false, I can easily kill m79 boosters with ak74, and many people have killed me when I m79 boost.
4. I think reducing m79 in publics is more possible through increasing reload time, since this would cause less m79 shots to be fired per round and m79 users getting killed more often, this should cause a decline in m79 users.

quote:Originally posted by MisterXSOLDAT IS NOT REALISTIC ;)
You know, we are talking about 1-hit-kill weapons here. I don't see any connection to the autos. By the way, you have given no real argument against it, have you? Only saying "It's stupid" isn't convincing..
I didn't mention autos...? Not sure what you mean.

Anyway, I'll clarify my argument. Fire delays are an irrational way to balance gun-type weapons. They have no basis in the real world, and meanwhile we have an abundance of far more realistic ways to balance weapons. Why not stick with those?

1. Which lesson did we learn from what happened to the LAW? It became a greatly balanced weapon that needs skill and is fun to use, yet very effective. So what? :)
2. That's correct, I'm not saying anything different. Even in 1.3, if you defend with a ruger, I don't think you'll have problems avoiding getting killed by the M79 user. But that's not my point :) I'll refer to that later on.
3. I disagree here. You even have an advantage if you don't kill the enemies. If you meet an enemy on your way to the flag, you'll a) most likely get hurt b) have 1 more guy that'll respawn when you capture the flag. So as long as you boost in the base unnoticed, you even have several advantages. When trying to get away with the flag you'll have no problem mostly, because you still have teammates who will most likely have killed the enemies you let through.
But you misunderstood me: The M79 boosting I ment is when the booster is carrying the flag and is simply boosting away. Your chances killing the booster, for example on b2b, are somewhere near zero, because the booster gets out of sight inbetween a second, so you can only spray him. If you really kill the booster then, it's simply luck.

So, a few things I have to get clear:
I'm not saying M79 is overused, that clearly says it's overpowered. I'm saying it's overpowered, totally ignoring if it's overused or not. Even if there'd be only 1 guy on earth who'd use it in 1.3, I still wouldn't change my mind.

The problem with the M79 is the same with Barret, only the distance is different. You would say a deagler can easily kill an M79user. But when? Look, people rush to each other on each map. Doesn't matter if it's B2b or Nuubia. So an M79user gets really close to his enemies very fast. And on close ranges, it's really extremely easy to kill with M79. But that's the way it is on most maps, in most games, mostly in Soldat in general. I know you can easily avoid being killed by a M79user, you only need to spray him to death or camp as if you didn't have legs. But I'm talking about "normal" playing here. And there, M79 definitely is very easy. I mean, very easy..

[Edit]
Gosh. Why, why do people always think realism is an argument?! I don't mean to offend you Fenyx, but who the hell cares about realism in a game? We want to balance a game, so it's fun for everyone, yet also balanced and fair for everyone, no matter which weapon he uses. Realism is totally uninteresting then!

Ugh...the M79 is quite fine as it is. Many people complain that it's too easy to kill with in close quarters. Got an issue? Learn to stay the [CENSORED] away from people who have what is effectively a big cannon in their hands. Perhaps, just perhaps, we could stop stop stop stop STOP making weapons worse in order to heed the prayers of people who aren't strong against said weapons. There are many peopl, Judge Man, Poop, etc etc etc who are very effective with the M79. Noob shots happen, but noob shots happen with every weapon, so just buckle down and get him on the respawn.

This might just be me, but personally I think this is pretty much on a par with the whinings about the Barret in the last version. "Boo hoo, the Barret's too strong, let's nerf it." Substitute the word "M79" for "Barret" and you pretty much have what you all are describing; nerfing the M79. It is already fantastically difficult to make a good shot with the M79. Think about it. The M79 has a single shot, just one shot, and if you miss your opponent you're almost certainly screwed unless he/she is a giant flaming noob. A three-second reload is already dangerously long.

The jump might be irritating to some. I hate it myself, but then again I do it all the time as well so I guess it all works out. Just as the gun cannot be effectively used by somebody who is unskilled, neither can it be used as a booster by somebody who is unskilled. You have to work out the angle and the timing perfectly, sometimes in a split second, or you could be dead.

The M79 is fine as it is. Noob shots and boosting are just part of the game, and if you haven't learned to deal with them by now then you shouldn't complain.

[/rant]

Yeah, I think the M79 is fine (other than the jump). Heres a secret: M79s are SO EASY to dodge. Unless you are within the range that the grenade hits you before your reaction speed can kick in (about 1.5 inches away on the screen), a simple roll or prone-boost is all it takes to get out of the way.
Maybe if we made the grenade much more visible, it would solve the problem by making everyone improve thier dodging skills.

As for the jumping: I want it to stay, but just be reduced. Getting to the top of the map in b2b is excessive. It would be good if you could boost yourself about 1 screen height high. that would be fair. I use M79 jumping to get behind bases to saw EFCs, but im willing to give that up.

By "normal talking" you seem to be reffering to pubs. In clanwars, it is by no means "easy" to get close to the enemy with a m79 unless the enemy is a complete idiot or noob.

In a pub, mostly everyone is rushing, nobody is playing tactically, therefore getting closer to the opponent with m79 is a whole lot easier(since the opponent is not avoiding you), and that my friend, is the major reason why m79 is a overused(not overpowered) weapon in public servers.

back to my original points now:
1. Thats your opinion, but not many agree with you, most people think its way too difficult to use. Also if you add delay to m79(and barret like people suggested in the other thread), you are balancing out weapons by making them the same as eachother(or similiar to eachother), this reduces and probably eliminates unique styles of playing. Also adding delay will require making major modifications to otehr weapons as well, which some of the mods have stated they are staying away from doing.
2. People do not rush eachother on every map in clanwars, this may be the case in pubs, but is far from the case in clanwars. Only unexperienced players will rush without a tactic in a clanwar.
3. Once again I was simply giving you the reason why I think m79 boosting is tactical. You have to make a choice, Fleeing or Fighting, with pros and cons to each choice. You missed the fact that if you let someone pass, you are risking that player grabbing your flag even if you grab thiers, its a equal tradeoff in the situation. Also a m79 booster on b2b who is going main route or up will have a difficult time killing anybody, so his teammate will have to deal with 2 people, which can be a pain. You said that killing a enemy flag carrier booster is impossible, I disagree by experience, because almost always, theres another enemy waiting for you somewhere, and if you run into him, the player behind you will catch up and it will lead to you getting double teamed and killed. This is even more a case against clans using ventrillo and teamspeak(almost all of them now).

Hmm, ok... to recap..

You all 'mostly' seem to agree that the m79 is fine as it is.

None the less, it can't be denied that m79 is one of, perhaps 'the' most used weapons in today's publics. Can anyone tell me why exactly?

Not used in serious matches? That's terribly wrong.

Soldat is a fast paced 2D game with small maps, because maps with big spaces are barely playable and tend to be boring (there are a few exceptions). M79 is sheer destruction on close range, and because most maps are closed, it's overpowered there, because one can get close enough so that bink is useless. On wide and big maps, the M79 has another advantage: it being able to boost. That makes it universaly strong on all maps, in all situations, which leads to the conclusion that it is overpowered (even if only by a notch.)

Suggestion: give it a little start up time. Little less than what the LAW has now. A startup time would be easy to get used to, so it would only bug players for a week or so, but it would weaken M79 boosting [harder to do] and it'd give players a chance in close quarters [that one extra half second is enough to bink the enemy].

Please note that I use M79 as one of my primaries, so don't even try to say that I'm trying to utterly nerf it.

^^Agree. Many players in publics choose the M79 for the same reason they choose the Barret: power. The M79 is extremely powerful; I know that's what attracted me to it when I was but a little nublet.

Demonic wants to give a startup to everything. heh

I already proposed a change which can reduce m79 usage in publics, increased reload to around 195 or 200 from the current 180.

Chakra read my previous posts, I think I said why its overused in publics. Ill say it again nonetheless, its because in publics, getting close to a opponent is very very easy, because the opponent is not playing tacticly, not paying attention, not trying to dodge your m79, and because there is simply more people in publics, so theres a much larger possibility that atleast 1 person will be close to your m79's range. Also fast killing weapons have been popular in publics since I started playing, these are m79, barret, deagles and ruger.

Startup or bink or whatever will significantly kill the m79 usage is clanwars, we should stick with alternative solutions which can reduce usage is publics but still let it keep the little usefulness it has now in clanwars. I think that solution is slightly increasing the reload time to 195.

I also posted why I think giving startup to so many weapons is bad. Ill post my reasons again.
1. You are balancing out weapons by making them similiar to eachother, which will eliminate unique styles of play.
2. You are slowing down the game further, the game has already slowed down somewhat due to selfbink.

In Soldat it's pretty easy to get close to an opponent regardless of the game being public or a clanwar. (In CW's, it pretty much depends on your enemy being ungarded by his teammate). Giving it more reload time wouldn't solve things, since the problem is in the fact that the M79er kills his enemy before he gets binked. A small start up time (which I don't understand how would make the weapons less unique) would give an additional time before the killer blast is made, thus giving a chance to bink the M79 user.

M79 is overused in publics, so what? We're talking about the fact that it is slightly overpowered, not that it is slightly too popular. Also one tenth of a second wouldn't slow down the game in any way, you could just keep pressing the fire button and keep it pressed when you want to shoot.

/evading other points that I've posted in the argument doesn't help you much either./

quote:1. You are balancing out weapons by making them similiar to eachother, which will eliminate unique styles of play.

So far this startup time is only proposed for one shot kill weapons. btw there are 5 automatics in soldat, that doesn't mean they are similiar. What other solution do you propose?

Look, I have got something to say about the m79, the barret and whole the delay thinngy..
At the momment the barret is about one level above all the other weapons, and the M79 is about the SAME LEVEL.
now, if you add delay for both of them the m79 would be just 2 levels under, none is gonna use it, there's no similar gun to the m79 so the m79ers who find it as fun in soldat MIGHT leave it :,(

the barret would be some under level as well, I would explain why..
you've perposed the delay since of the LAW right? but you've just forgot 2 important facts:
1.LAW IS A SECONDARY GUN.
2.LAW has NO bink.

so, when people see the LAW user they could shot him with autoguns let's say and just kill it this way, if he managed to shot he wouldn't get binked.
However, when u would use M79\BARRET which are PRIMARY weapons they would get sprayed, and wouldn't get even the smallest chance to beat ANY OTHER gun coz of the bink.
Removing the bink would also be a bad idea, coz then they would ALWAYS win if the player is skilled enough.

Don't use this delay for crying out load! it's a realy bad idea :
I'm a m79er, I even take myself as one of the best m79ers out there, and still.. some skilled or even avaraged autogunners could beat me since of the bink, just by spraying me \ shoting me at the momment that thay see me when I couldn't shot yet.. nerfing it even more wouldn't be fair AT ALL.
look in everymap where ppl start using autoguns all the m79s are gone.. that's coz they'r not overpowered...

PLEASE APPROVE MY POST THIS TIME AND STOP IGNORING MY POST AT THIS TOPIC, IT'S NOT FU6KING FAIR.


I only delete your posts if you keep saying the same sh*t from time to time. We heard you the first time. - Demonic

Demonic, I haven't post ANYTHING at this topic so none of the public could see "my same sh*t".. that's why I say that's not fair. I ain't repeating on my things.. just wanna sho2 it to this forum and not only the betatesters :\

Demonic, Are you in a clan? Have you recently played in a clanwar? Have you recently viewed a clanwar?
Theres a chance to bink a m79 user right now, how would a startup give a higher chance of binking the opponent? I dont really understand how you made that conclusion, if you say that its because it would take longer for the m79 to shoot, it would be thet same case with a higher reload.

Overpowered, If you would like ill demonstrate why m79 is not overpowered. Ill use a socom and you can use a m79 and we will see who kills who ;o, saying its overpowered is only your opinion. Saying its overused however is a fact, I have heard atleast 1 person say every weapon is "overpowered", but not all weapons can be overpowered.

Im sorry Demonic if I "evaded" anything in your post, but it was most likely because I didnt see it. If you post the part I "evaded" again ill be sure to reply to it. And if you really want to start studying eachothers posts and pointing out the flaws in them, then ill let you know you have totally ignored my reasons why a higher reload time will work, instead you just posted your reason why it wouldnt work making it seem like I didnt even post a reason for why it would.

Mielos the solution ive proposed 3-4 times in this thread already is a bit higher reload time. Something like 195 instead of the current 180, IMO it would reduce usage in pubs while not severely damaging it in clanwars.

Bug's Revenge, that is exactly what ive been saying in this whole thread.

True that 'twas a bit hypocritical of me to say that you evaded my points, when I'd done the same thing (memory failure). I'd like to fix my error now though.

Having a longer reload time wouldn't be a big weakening, because like I said, the problem is in the firefight, and not between two firefights. It'd restrain M79 in public games, but not in clan wars (Voland, gah how I hate thee when there are 3 M79's!) because by the time your enemies respawn or you meet up with your opponents you'd have your M79 reloaded already.

Keep in mind that we want to balance both in clan wars and publics aswell. I think it's a grave mistake to try and prove your right in a balance issue discussion with a duel.

Naturally, our opinions differ, but saying "that's your opinion" or "others have said" are not legit grounds for a discussion (for once your primary is M79, so one could simply say that you're only trying to defend it, however that would be stupid too).

/ To answer your off-topic question: I've been in the infamous ::NbK:: and [BA], and have just recently retired from clan life. However at the moment I'm the leader of Team Hungary, so questioning my experiences in clan wars should be out of the discussion, thank you. /

notice the -Recently- in my questions. Styles change, the game has become way more defensive with the introduction of things such as ventrillo and teamspeak into clanwars. I can say around 4 months ago almost everyone was rushing, now almost every clanwar I play against a 'good' clan is very defensive, people wait for the others to attack instead of attacking wildly. Im not questioning your experience in clanwars, and im sorry if I insulted you with that, I was just trying to know how you are making a statement that " In Soldat it's pretty easy to get close to an opponent regardless of the game being public or a clanwar", because this is far from the case in most clanwars ive played in.

You said yourself that having a 1 second longer reload would be a big nerf on the first page. Im proposing basically a .25 or .33 second longer reload, this would restrain m79 overuse in public server like you said yourself in your previous post without damaging it in clanwars(thats my whole point ;|). M79 is not overused nor overpowered in clanwars. Voland is a map which compliments a good m79 user, just like viet is a map which compliments good mp5, deagle and other auto users, just like Run is a map which compliments good Ruger and Barret users. Saying that m79 is used alot on a specific map is not a good base for a argument. And I havent ever noticed 3 m79's on voland, I usually see 1 or 2 being used only in situations where both teams are holding the flag and are trying to return it.

I agree our opinions differ, the point I was trying to make with that part was that the m79 isnt overpowered, but it is overused in certain situations in publics. Everyone thinks a specific weapon is overpowered, and I have heard every weapon being called at one point or another "overpowered", but that doesnt mean every weapon IS overpowered.

And I just recently thought of another reason why a startup to so many weapons is not a good idea. Its because with a startup, we are steepening the learning curve, for new players its much harder to learn a m79/barret/knife/or law with a startup so they will switch to alternative weapons, and thats something I would say we dont want.

I can only repeat what I've said in the Barret thread: We do not want to ruin weapons because we dislike them. We actually want to balance each weapon, so it's fun for everyone and just as fair. Even if you agree on a delay now, this doesn't mean it will be in the final version. We're only talking about the balance in the beta now, which will be tested. If we test the delay and notice that it makes a weapon be useless, fine, we'll get rid of it now. But shouldn't we test it at least? If everyone disagrees now it won't even be tested, and I don't think that's the right way.

I understand what your saying but a few problems.

1. Nobody is ever on the weapon balance test server, Ive tried to get people to join but it doesnt work, basically nobody gives a [CENSORED]e, theyll just whine when the new version is released
2. even if people start joining and get interested, there will be none or very few clanwars to test these changes on, it would just be a public server testing, which isnt good -_-.

quote: If I'm not mistaken, the beta server's weapon mod has weakened M79 jumping.

As for the +1 second reload, I believe that would be a major nerf, since you'd be dead if you'd miss your first shot with the M79. Instead I suggest a small charge-time, so one would have to hold the fire button before blasting someone. That would also weaken M79 jumping a bit too.

Shouldn't you be dead if you miss? You're using a one shot weapon, afterall.


quote:Disagree! Disagree! m79 is fine in reload time. m79 jumping is awesome, and it takes down health from the player each time he/she boosts. Also why dont you just boost yourself with a nade.. duh.

Wow, a little bit of health! Whoopdee do!
m79 is not good in reload. They can jump, and by the time they hit the ground they can fire again.
Ahh, why dont YOU boost yourself with a nade, and save the m79 shot?

hmm, well maybe the barret needs delay since it could kill from far distances, but let the m79 be, we've added some bink to it from 1.3..
besides, I don't think higher reload time would be smart, then you wouldn't be able to kill 2 guys at all..
Now I can hardly do double kills with m79 (without nades \ secondaries) so what then ? oO

No, i dont agree that the m79 is fine, its a barret with indefinite rounds and a faster fire rate with the capability of jumping and a disadvantage of range.

Suggestions:

- .1-3 second delay
- Firing pushes the user, like a spas or minigun.
- Longer reload
- More damage to user from shots, more range of damage to user if not for more damage.

Question: Many people in this thread are against a delay to m79, and some are even against changing m79 at all. Why was delay added to m79, bink increased to 45(from 25), damage reduced, and reload increased a little? This seems a bit of a radical change. Does a beta testers opinion matter more than a regular forumers opinion? I mean MisterX and Demonic are both beta testers and seem to be the biggest supporters of delay in this thread, while many other regular forum members either dont want delay or dont want to change m79 at all, and some(including myself) suggested a longer reload ONLY! It does seem to me that my opinion along with some others was disregarded and the change the beta testers wanted happened(I may just be paranoid). I know this isnt the new version and these changes arent final, but how can we be sure this same thing wont happen when it comes to introducing the new weapons.ini for the new version? Is this really public balance testing?

I also have another question which is unrelated to this thread.
Lets say 100 is a number which triggered the decision that we will have public balance testing for the new version. Honestly, how much of that 100 was due to hopefully not getting blamed for [screwing up] the next versions weapons?

Leave M79 alone! It's fine piece of art! You are n00b when you can't own player(s) with M79. It is not weapon's fault, m'kay.

Don't hit me, plz! : )

quote:Originally posted by Chakra`Hmm, ok... to recap..

You all 'mostly' seem to agree that the m79 is fine as it is.

None the less, it can't be denied that m79 is one of, perhaps 'the' most used weapons in today's publics. Can anyone tell me why exactly?


Allow me to try hun. In almost every game you have an equivalent of a mighty rocket-spewing pipe of doom. And in every game it is fairly popular. Allow me to digress from Soldat and take Quake for example. In Q1 it was all about rocketlauncher. Q2 they brought out that pesky railgun, and so we got a clash of two titans. Q3 kept those two weapons, having one excell in close quarter battles, and the other for taking out buggers from afar. To sum it up - rocket launcher pwnz because of high damage from direct hits and spash damage as a bonus.
It is popular in Soldat, however, because most fighting is done upclose, not on various distances like in FPSes. And because range is rarely an issue, you have everyone and their dog (and me) use m79.

Jumping... id nerf it by half in favour of larger splash damage radius. Reload time is fine as it is imho - if you and your barret-wielding opponent both miss, you have only that one second to blast him to bits.

quote:Originally posted by PoopQuestion: Many people in this thread are against a delay to m79, and some are even against changing m79 at all. Why was delay added to m79, bink increased to 45(from 25), damage reduced, and reload increased a little? This seems a bit of a radical change. Does a beta testers opinion matter more than a regular forumers opinion? I mean MisterX and Demonic are both beta testers and seem to be the biggest supporters of delay in this thread, while many other regular forum members either dont want delay or dont want to change m79 at all, and some(including myself) suggested a longer reload ONLY! It does seem to me that my opinion along with some others was disregarded and the change the beta testers wanted happened(I may just be paranoid). I know this isnt the new version and these changes arent final, but how can we be sure this same thing wont happen when it comes to introducing the new weapons.ini for the new version? Is this really public balance testing?

I also have another question which is unrelated to this thread.
Lets say 100 is a number which triggered the decision that we will have public balance testing for the new version. Honestly, how much of that 100 was due to hopefully not getting blamed for [screwing up] the next versions weapons?


Because MisterX and I are beta testers and happen to actually post arguments (thus creating a negotiation-link between the beta crew and the public) we're getting the blame? This isn't the final balance mind you, the changes were made so they can be tested. The public doesn't like it, then it gets booted, we can argue more, yay.

To your second question: None? The public is going to blame the beta testing crew anyway, whatever we do. It's not like we're going to get kancho-assasinated on the street by Ninjas who are yelling "FOR THE BALANCE", now is it?

Even though im not an m79 user im against the start up time itd ruin this weapon imo. I am 100% behind a reload increase though and adding a little more bink when being fired at wouldnt hurt.

quote:Originally posted by PoopQuestion: Many people in this thread are against a delay to m79, and some are even against changing m79 at all. Why was delay added to m79, bink increased to 45(from 25), damage reduced, and reload increased a little? This seems a bit of a radical change. Does a beta testers opinion matter more than a regular forumers opinion?


I alone made the changes. Please read the topic I created called 'Week 1'.

'All' of the changes suggested were introduced in a minor way - and thus creating a radical change together - to simply illustrate how each change had an effect. The current server balance is far from final or any of it definite.

Chakra.
That is not a good idea, the effect one change will have alone is way different from the effect 1 change will have along with many other changes, dont ya think?

Demonics:
So if im not mistaken, since the public seems to disapprove the startup to m79, it will be removed from the next update of the ini?

Also, I asked for a honest response with my other question. I even saw a few beta testers say one of the reasons they did this was so they dont get blamed. I just wanted to know how much that factored in.

why do my post keep getting deleted? as much as i dislike the m79, i don't support a delay or longer reload. i think the power needs to be tweeked, or at least the radius in which damage can be done with it. the m79 should be a one shot one kill weapon, HOWEVER, near misses should not result in one shot kills. more damage needs to be dealt to the user if it is fired at close ranges. point blank panic shots with the m79 shouldn't be able to blow up one soldat and leaver the other soldat firing the weapon comparitively unharmed.

Thats true Poop. However I was hoping that most individuals could at least use their imagination in this early part of the process to use the m79 on the new server and witness 'all' the various changes suggested at the same time, and try to imagine what kind of effect either one of the nerfing-effects would have individually. It's so not intended as a permenent, practical or 'fair' change.


As for why public balance was made... after 5 weeks of us beta testers doing nothing during the testing of 1.3.1 (merely a few bug fixes and a new balance), I inspired the rest of the team to work towards setting up this public balance (relatively easy), which works as a 'filler' for our inadequate efforts right now. We will soon be seeking new beta testers.

Lets not go into a discussion towards that in 'this' topic though.