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Soldat Forums - Soldat Talk - Weapon Balance Discussion
October 26, 2005, 4:39 am
I am really liking the 1.3.0 saw, with its increased range, ammo, slower reload, etc.

The main problem is that its hits register far less than it did before. However, this is probably an issue with lag, and not with the saw itself.

The main issue I want to bring up is the idea of hit locations for the saw. Honestly, what's the point of doing 99% damage if you miss thier torso or head? Hitting someone with a saw is difficult enough that it should reward you with a kill. Having to aim with the saw should be unnecessary, and totally ruins the whole concept of the saw. Most of the time its instant kill, but its frustating to sometimes manage to hit someone with a saw in a grueling duel against a deagler, and deal insufficient damage to him and then die in his next shot. Or sawing a spas user, only to have him turn around and own you in the face.

So what I'm saying is to up the saw damage to 99999999 or something, so that the hit location percentages cant affect it significantly.

Deleted User
October 27, 2005, 12:16 am
I support this.
Maybe bump its ammo up a bit as well. 50 or so sound good?

October 27, 2005, 3:55 am
Yeah, the saw should be instakill.

October 27, 2005, 3:55 am
I can't agree more. It really needs that boost to compete with the knife.

October 27, 2005, 12:54 pm
Ah, the ammo is already set for 80, bulbcock.

October 27, 2005, 2:18 pm
For those of you not around the days of 1.1.4, the saw 'was' insta-kill. It was deeply unliked for this, as spawnkilling became quite an issue with it.

October 27, 2005, 2:19 pm
Please play in the server before you make topics, mkay?

Even if the damage was set insanely high, the net-code isn't fool-proof, so hits that deal zero damage would still occour.

October 27, 2005, 8:51 pm
I've been in the server at least 5 times but no one else ever does.

I understand that the zero-damage-hits are sometimes the result of lag, so thats why is specifically pointed it out in the first paragraph:
"The main problem is that its hits register far less than it did before. However, this is probably an issue with lag, and not with the saw itself."

What this thread is about is about its inconsistent ability to deal 100% damage. I'm talking about the fact that it sometimes deals 99% damage. I thought I was pretty clear of this in my post... =/
wait hold on, is the board supposed to be about the discussion of current 1.3 weapons or the new weapons in the server? I thought it was for the 1.3 weapons. that would only make sense, so you guys could hear the public opinion on the problems before trying to make a solution.

@Chakra: I think spawnkilling can be reduced if the invincibiltiy time from respawn is increased an extra .4 seconds or so. That would give them enough time to get out of the way. Also, I think its already long enough anyways, because any decent player would notice a sawer at thier spawn and just jump up right after they respawn. Spawnkilling is only a problem for "good" people when there are multiple people doing it, with guns.

October 30, 2005, 1:20 am
Saw has got to be the most useless weapon if ya ask me anless some guy can catch up to a guy without getting shot dead b4 they even get there.

October 30, 2005, 9:48 pm

November 2, 2005, 1:01 am
^two wonderful and well backed-up comments by <10 posters.

i think that the ssaw (if you didn't read my post about maps for swarmer, that stands for supa secksy assault weapon)'s reload time should be increased to 104, the new time is 52, and that's waaay too short for 80 ammo. and swarmer, the hits don't seem to register as much because the fireinterval is now 6 instead of 4. i believe it should be changed back to 4. desirably 3, but 4's fine. if fireinterval gets lowered, ammo would have to be upped to 100 to make the "clip" last about as long.

November 3, 2005, 3:20 am
When I think about it the saw shouldn't be instant kill. For you to deserve that kill you must slice through him, not just crop his arm a bit.

What I am bothered by though are the zero-damage hits. Could be lag, but at least half of the times it's because of the "slow" fire rate. Often when you and the enemy run towards eachother at high speed the saw misses because he ran between the saw's chops. I tried by changing the saw's FireInterval from 4 to 3, along with Damage to 900 (2 hits = ~90% health loss). There were almost no zero-damage hits, so a good contact usually guaranteed a kill, while just a small touch reduced the health.

I believe this could make the chainsaw a true contestant again.

November 3, 2005, 7:23 pm
yeah, but "cropping someones arm" is basically killing them if it was real life. no soldier is going to keep fighting with one arm dangling loosely by some flaps of skin.
There shouldnt even be a noticeable fire interval. In real life a saw doesnt burst fire... the blade is constantly dangerous, not every fraction of a second. It should have 1 fire interval and a ton of ammo.
And I dunno why my old reply got deleted... I thought it was more informative than "agreed".

November 3, 2005, 8:25 pm
I cant say anything against this weapon, I give tremendous respect to people like swarmer who use this thing as a primary. Ive developed pretty good countering manuvers against em but players like swarmer still nail me with this thing. Keep it the way it is, the only thing that bothers me is the obvious nade advantage you get while using this thing for some reason wether this is a bug or w/e this has to be fixed. For those who dont believe me that this exists as ive gotten into arguements with people about it ask players like swarmer, nades are more effective with the saw for some reason. I use a ruger my nades rarely kill dead on but when I try saw my nades kill dead on 90% of the time.

Deleted User
November 3, 2005, 10:31 pm
Chakra, I thought spawnkilling was huge in 1.1.4 because of the no respawn invincibility protection time? I like the current changes to chainsaw, 80 ammo is a good idea.

November 4, 2005, 12:29 am
thanks GO.
well, I dont think the nades do any more damage with saw. I get non-damaging nades all the time. Its just that when you use saw you are much more focused with nades, putting all your effort into thier aim. Using saw basically garuntees you using all your nades since thats the only ranged weapon you get.
Also, it seems like sometimes my nades never kill, but other times its always auto-kill. Its just a lag issue, so maybe that has something to do with your experience.
One thing for sure is that using only saw for a long time improves your skill with nades by A LOT, so yeah, they kind of are better. I remember used to being amazed by getting triple kills with a gun, but now going saw and nades only I get about 3 or 4 TKs per game.

November 4, 2005, 11:59 am
i think we should give insta-kill saw another shot, i miss 1.1.4 saw :(

December 4, 2005, 3:54 am
New balance out, but nothing radical has been done to the saw. If nothing is done to the damage nor fireinterval this will remain an underpowered weapon in 1.3.1.

I have a dream that one day a man can walk into a public server and get sawed as much as he gets a knife in him. I have a dream that on day saws will be as common as any other secondary in clan wars. I have a dream that one day the saw will have a fearsome reputation to be an effective weapon in the right hands.

December 5, 2005, 3:32 pm
underpowered? at least make an attempt to master the weapon before you go around calling it underpowered. i think it's a tad overpowered IMO and i'm glad that it dosen't always instant kill. it is the simgle most powerful weapon in the game. no other weapon can get as many kills in per "clip" than the SAW. some of things i do with it make me feel guilty. other players will get so pissed at me that they'll grab SAWs and try to single me out. i'm perfectly fine with it being a 99% instant kill weapon. i'd like to see a return to the 30 ammo clip. the 1.2.1 SAW took a little more skill to use because you had to time your reloads just right to compensate for the smaller clip. i don't like the greater range either. the 1.2.1 SAW was a little more balanced in that respect. i shouldn't run over top of someone while i'm upright and instant kill them if them are crouched or prone. the 1.2.1 SAW took a little more skill to master the crouched or prone kills, where as now you can just walk over them.

i agree on the hits not resitering online due to lag or net code issues. taking this into account the 1.2.1 SAW was a little more powerful. i'll go prone and do a mid-air SAW of an EFC m79er and not kill/hurt him and then turn around and get blased in the back with his m79. that's BS. if MM can fix the hit not resistering issue then the 1.3.1 should be just fine IMO, although i do stand by my argument that the 1.2.1 SAW was more balanced.

EDIT: i just got off a server where 90% of the SAW's didn't register as hits. i'd see the blood animation at i hit them but they would take no damage. that's got to be fixed in 1.3.1.

December 5, 2005, 5:52 pm
I pretty much agree with Algernon there; apart from the 1.2.1 stuff.

It's just problems with the net code/lag that make the saw bad... most of the time, it's very good.

December 5, 2005, 6:01 pm
I wouldent call it a 99% instant kill. It seems more like 70% to me. When you learn to use a weapon well then you start to notice all its little flaws.

I don't know about you but if someone gets hit by a saw in real life; no matter how small it is their gonna have a bad day.

Edit by MisterX: Realism is not an argument!

December 6, 2005, 11:58 am
Oh hush, Algernon. The saw was my primary until 1.2. I've probably used saw for longer than you've played Soldat. even without that in mind I'd take you on, b1tch, with the sock, spoon or panzerkampf and still ring yer bell.

Doesn't matter if it can do most kills per clip. You'll only wind up with less than a third of them hitting anyway.