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Environment Complications & Map Specific WeaponMod
Soldat Forums - Soldat Talk - Game Improvements / Suggestions
Swarmer
October 26, 2005, 5:32 am
I'd like to see the ability to have more complicated things on maps.
Things like:

1) Polys that count how many and what kind of soldats (and maybe weapons) are on them, and the time they are on them.
2) An interactive "item", like the stat gun, that can be turned on or off. It will be called a "switch". There can be another switch that can be activated by damage or explosions.
3) Invisible polys that act as "zones". These could have the attributes described in #1.
4) Respawn or teleport polys. These could respawn the player back at the respawn point or teleport them to another poly.

Using these 4 things, mapmakers could make more complicated maps and use them as switches and counters for:

5) Polys that have changeable heal/damage rates.
6) Polys than can become "invisible", effectively disapearing.
7) Variables for the score.
8) A variable for jetpack fuel.
9) Variables for team assignments.
10) Map specific bots (limited abilities).

Also, maps should be able to have thier own weapon mods. The weapon settings could also even be affected by the environment.

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Using these changes, creative mappers could make thier own gamemodes and do things like this:


- Perfect Dark style king of the hill: Make a poly that a needs a certain number of soldats to set a trigger. This trigger could earn them a point after a certain amount of time. The timer could freeze if enemy soldats are on it.

- Have a switch that "turns off" polys that represent a bridge, revealing lava underneath, or perhaps a secret passage (ie a door).

- The map could be divided in half in two zones for the two teams. Remember, zones are invisible polys that cover an area. The zone of the first team would be the entire left side of the map, seperate from the other team. The switch in the middle toggles between heal/damage for the two zones. Or instead of a switch, a poly or zone that counts the number of soldats is the switch. the more soldats of the same team on it, the more damage the enemy zone receives and vice versa.

- A switch at the top that turns off all jetpacks for a certain amount of time.

- A poly that requires weapon specific users to stand on it. For example, the team earns a point if 3 chainsawers are standing on it simultaneously; then it respawns them.

- Having a zone at points around the map that earn a team a point if a member of the team is at each of the points simultaneously.

- A switch or zone that increases the damage of a certain weapon, like a SOCOM, to 4x damage, effectively making a weapon-specific beserker. Or one that nerfs a specific weapon for a specified interval of time.

- A poly that powers up whatever weapons lay on top of it.

- A "totem" (nice looking poly), that if "destroyed" (records enough damage to it (it could change color)), causes gameplay effects, such as giving weapon bonuses or disadvantages, or mixing teams up randomly.

- A poly that teleports you to another area of the map depending on your weapon: a sniper point if you have a barret, in the fray if you have an auto, or the enemy spawn if you have a saw >=)

- A switch that spawns dozens of bloodthirsty Boogiemen.

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These are just a few of the thousands of possibilities that exist. This would turn soldat into an epic game, converting it from its simple state to one of endless gametypes and possibilities.
The mapmaker would need a big upgrade. It would need to be able to handle triggers like in the StarCraft one. Simple knowledge of logic gates (IF, AND, OR, etc) and math and programming ( Zone1.damage()*Poly1.numOfSoldatsOn() ) would be needed by the mapmakers.

The concept stems from my belief that the map should interact with the game. It should not just be a location for the game to take place. It should define the attributes of the specific match. The map should be able to send messages (ie "Alpha Team Weapons gain x2 Damage for 30 seconds!", or "Door 1 now open"), define weapon settings, and generally be a major part of the game.

I think these changes would not be enormously difficult to implement, but the potential outcome is defintely worth giving this a try.

Keron Cyst
October 26, 2005, 6:18 pm
Count the time of how long a soldaten wielding a specific weapon is on a polygon? Dreams, all dreams... :-/

Maps with their own WMs? I don't think that's possible, the way the game's layout is programmed.

What's the point of a respawn polygon when you can have a polygon that teleports back to base? And yea, I like that, if it's possible (might need to rewrite the original .PMS layout, tho'). If it indeed is, then you should also be able to make some polygons teleport only members of a specific team.

And they should be able to teleport projectiles :-D

You can't "turn off polys." You can't edit or delete polygons or change polygons' attributes in a match at all.

quote:Originally posted by Swarmer... poly that teleports you to another area of the map depending on your weapon: a sniper point if you have a barret, in the fray if you have an auto, or the enemy spawn if you have a saw...

What's wrong with just getting there?

Swarmer
October 26, 2005, 9:02 pm
quote:Originally posted by Keron Cyst

Maps with their own WMs? I don't think that's possible, the way the game's layout is programmed.

It could just have its own weapons.ini file created whenever the map is loaded, and then reset it once its over. Or its own file could be another file required to run the map, along with the .pms file.

quote:
What's the point of a respawn polygon when you can have a polygon that teleports back to base?

Well, there wouldnt be much of a difference. It's just another way to think about it. It would be the same.


quote:
And they should be able to teleport projectiles :-D

YES!

quote:
You can't "turn off polys." You can't edit or delete polygons or change polygons' attributes in a match at all.

Well, not with the current version. But could it be changed so that it is possible? I dont know much about how soldat is coded, so maybe this would be difficult, but probably not impossible.

quote:
What's wrong with just getting there?

The maps could be made much larger if they had these, and so they would be much more useful.

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remember my concept is not just these specific changes, but the whole idea in general of having triggers and a more interactive environment.

a-4-year-old
October 26, 2005, 9:16 pm
ehh i don't think it is gonna happen, it would be abused anyway
it takes 100000000000000 people to stand on this poly to open the new "door poly" to the other teams flag!

Stern
October 26, 2005, 9:42 pm
I think this stuff would be amazingly cool. You could have a poly in some random hard to reach location that would teleport you to behind a soldat that's alone in realistic mode so you could just shoot him in the back of the head with a spas or stab him. And it would be hot to throw your knife into a portal and kill someone on the other side of the map.

Swarmer
October 26, 2005, 11:20 pm
lol i love that throw-knife-in-portal thing.

and a-4-year-old: well, obviously people could make terrible maps that need 100000000000000000 people to open a door. but no one is going to play them. but there will be people who make amazing maps that everyone will love. people make crappy maps all the time now, and the solution is to not play them. its pretty simple.

CottonTheMoth
October 27, 2005, 12:24 am
I can imagine a map which requires three people at least. :D Two people standing on buttons to open a door for player three to go into, and then press a button to keep the door open so players one and two can make it through. ^__^. Maze and training maps would be so much more fun :D

Deleted User
October 27, 2005, 12:54 am
We can play "battle room" like in Ender's Game.

Leet.

rabidhamster
October 27, 2005, 9:53 pm
meh, too hard too program. the only ones i like are:

teleport polys- love 'em, as long as the teleport to would be a labeled point in the map editor, and not another polygon. the points and polygons could have id numbers, ex. 3F and 3T. 3F is the id for the polygon, and 3T is the id for the point. therefore, if there were two 3Ts, soldat would randomly decide which point the player would be transported to. if two 3Fs, well, that's obvious.

map specific weapon mods- YES, as long as there is an option to turn it off. other options, like:
map editor- the only options would be which weapons to use, and use current weapons set. the .ini for the weapons stats would go in the \maps folder with the same name as the map.
in game- only one option, a checkbox labeled use map-specific weapon mods.

Deleted User
October 28, 2005, 1:13 am
Teleport polys would be nice for making mazes and simulating elevators.
Map-specific weapon mods would be neat too, especially if you could specify weapon graphics for them (although that is probably taking it too far)... Imagine an "Around the World" server that takes you from firing .44 Magnums and Barettas in the Bronx, to using snipers and rifles in the snow-capped Alps, to using high-powered autos and carpet bombs in the rain forests of Central America.

As for the special "interactive" polygons, probably the best way to go about it would be to make an entirely new variety of poly in addition to the ones we have now--the current polys for structuring a map, and the new polys for adding interactivity and effects.
The polys would function by setting various "switches" that define how the various parts of the game behave within their area, like: keeping weather effects from displaying inside (for caves or buildings), slowing down Soldat and ammo speed (for water, as I suggested in the water thread) or speeding them up, partial transparency (to make shadows, etc.), slow damage inside area (for poison gas and whatnot), and Lord knows what else. Perhaps you could even make them change color--an application that could be useful when combined with "map events" (coding/scripting) that could be assigned to them.

Scripts/coding, I assume, would be limited no matter what; which would be just as well considering not every mapper is gonna have any knowledge of how to code anyway.
Instead, I'd suggest a sort of "fill in the blank" thing that you can assign to the interactive polys. The map maker would have some text with some dropdown menus or fields at the blanks, leaving you with something like:

When *input value* is *menu item* number of *menu item* are *menu item*, do *menu item* the *menu item* by *input value*, for *input value* number of *menu item*.

When you select/type values into the fields, you'd get something like:

When 5 is more than or equal to number of team players are alive, do increase the team score by 3, for 0 number of ticks.

That way, you could create a King of the Hill mode out of a Team Match by telling the poly to increase a team's score whenever five or more members are inside its area, the 0 (or maybe -1) number of ticks being interpreted as "forever." Other possibilities would include subtracting points from the opposing team, triggering normal poly visibility (more on that next), teleporting players, adding/removing medkits or grenades, invoking a power-up, and/or other stuff. You'd be able to have it be triggered by and/or affect single players, entire teams, everyone on the map, objects, health, ammo, and probably some other things I can't think of at the moment.
At any rate, it'd allow a good amount of interactivity and complexity (but not too much of it) while at the same time placing everything into a defined statement that's not only friendly for non-coders, but allows a generally universal if-then statement to be used in the code as opposed to some kind of interpreter that has to watch for syntax, variable names, and so on.

The ability to turn on or off a regular poly mid-game would probably be a good idea too, and I can't imagine it being too difficult to implement; all you'd have to do is add an "off" mode, and let scripted interactive polys determine when to toggle it... Destructability would probably have to be built into the regular polys though, maybe by just by assigning the poly such-and-such HP and a respawn time (with 0 or -1 being forever). Turning it to "off" would be simple enough, as you could just tell the server and clients to disregard those polys' display and interaction. As for making them appear again, you could just check to see if anyone is inside the poly's area, and then just delay activating them until there's no one in there (or maybe just kill the soldat to keep it running "on schedule."
The reason why I'd make such an exception for regular polys is that the "switch" wouldn't be suitable for the interactive polys (since they'd just define certain conditions within their area), and the possibilities are simply too good--maps with changing paths, or even a "Fortress" game mode where the objective is to literally destroy the opposing team's base or other structure/object by... Well, shooting it, and the bases/whatever could slowly rebuild themselves.




Anyway, I gotta go eat, and I've spent way too long on this sucker anyhow, especially since it'd figure for there to be something about the Soldat coding that'd keep anything suggested above from happening :P

Thanks for reading.

Deleted User
October 28, 2005, 1:39 am
This would make soldat own.

Own all things.

Even CS:S

Deleted User
October 28, 2005, 4:42 am
Awesome.

person
December 1, 2005, 3:56 pm
Directed from another thread... just came to say, due to the points given recently, I do think this'd be pretty cool to have as an option for map makers.

ZerO.Kitchen
December 1, 2005, 5:03 pm
supa idea...

Buuuut...
the scripting lenguage needs to be easy , like the weapons one.

Deleted User
December 1, 2005, 5:55 pm
I know nothing about scirpting and how to get it so it does anything like what you want, but it seems to be a well thought out and planned idea. This is my favorite idea I have seen yet, it's just these sorts of ideas Soldat needs to impliment that will really make this game well known and add a 3rd dimensia to it's gameplay, instead of just killing and caping for points. =P

Only problem is we all know MM works at Soldat all by himself and I'm sure he has a job. Realisticaly, I believe, it would take a team of about 5-7 really good scipters to help MM impliment these statements and idea made previously by the topic starter. With that in mind, I don't think anyone with that kind of game designing skill would be willing to work for free, although I could be wrong, but if they don't work for free then MM would still be going at it by himself.

All in all these are the best ideas for this game I have read to date, and I really hope MM atleast considers looking at them to see if it is plausible for him to impliment them.

jettlarue
December 2, 2005, 1:58 am
it would be cool if the scripting language was based on javascript or vbscript because they are easy to learn. obviously we wouldnt use THEM but we could emulate them the same way browsers do to affect certain variables and create new variables. here is a sample:

function setupall{
var squarepoly=new Polygon();
var players=new Array()
players.length=game.server.players.amount;
player[0].position(text="x"+server.players.1.x'+text="y"+'server.players.1.y);
//do rest of players......
blackpoly.size(a:10-b;b:10-c;a:10-c);
blackpoly.color(000,000,000);
//rgb color is now black
blackpoly.where.x(orangepoly+200);
blackpoly.where.x(greenpoly-300);
blackpoly.type('regenerates',dynamic=true);

if(blackpoly.type=="true" and players[0-'players.length']>2 and ['players.src.x==blackpoly.where.x-50---50']>2 and [players.src.y==plackpoly.where.y-50---50']){
blackpoly.color(255,255,255);
//backpoly rgb color is now white
}
}

Deleted User
December 2, 2005, 2:33 am
quote:Originally posted by a-4-year-oldehh i don't think it is gonna happen, it would be abused anyway
it takes 100000000000000 people to stand on this poly to open the new "door poly" to the other teams flag!

There isn't that many people in the entire world.

Captain Ben
December 2, 2005, 2:57 am
Doors and bridges that are operated by switches is a definite yes from me.
Also, i'd like to see stat switches. For example, you can't use the stat on INF Fortess, unless you run down to where the white flag is to activate it. It coul;d create some wild chaos on its own :D

Kaider
December 2, 2005, 11:25 pm
quote:Originally posted by ZamorakWe can play "battle room" like in Ender's Game.

Leet.


I support this idea, I for one think it should be implemented.

Snipedmyself
December 3, 2005, 5:22 am
perfect dark king style of the hill. great idea, i was just thinking about that yesterday.

nfsjunkie91
December 3, 2005, 5:38 am
A whole new level added to inf maps! think about it! or even ctf, you could have a bridge that if 3ppl on red team stood on, all of a sudden the bridge would disappear and they would drop into the spiky pit of death! zomg!

ZerO.Kitchen
December 3, 2005, 9:19 pm
i , ZerO.KitcheN , approve this !!!

Yuth
December 7, 2005, 1:53 pm
Sweet, yeah...

The MapMaker program needs more options.
I like the thing about doors that open... And close automatically etc.

- Polygons which moves by arrow keys when holding the switch button etc.
*Imagines (Bloody Deadly) polygons in a room, slowly closing in on the soldat*

The bridge thing could be like planks- two pieces of polygon stuck together.
Like in the classic Super Mario bros, when you are defeating bowser, the planks vanish one by one.
So when you hit the switch... The polygons disappear in numbers 1- 2- 3- And so on.
Or have area numbers- (Many planks as one number)

Would be really fun with some strategy in Soldat.

Kyklis
December 7, 2005, 10:01 pm
Oooh, I love this. So many awesome ideas.

Like for Infiltration, have the red team have a GIGANTIC gate, and they spawn inside this base. They can get out by running up a ramp and dropping. In front of the gate, fairly far away, there would a bunker with a switch requiring 2-5 people from red team on it, then the gate would open. Meaning blue would have to work hard to defend the bunker, or else they would get rushed. Many different posibilities. Destroy the objective? Have a bunker, have a certain number of one team stand there for a certain amount of time, remove polygon. Not to mention WW2 maps would have awesome mods :).

Hard to implement, i'm sure, but this would make Soldat amazing.