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Soldat Forums - Soldat Talk - Weapon Balance Discussion
October 26, 2005, 8:56 pm
Well, there has been a huge change in Soldat. The use of weapons, the popoularity of them, the ways of playing, the gamestyles, the whining, etc.

1.3 weapon balance seemed so great at the start, but after a few weeks, we (the players) realised that it isn't that great afterall. Back in 1.2.1 only Desert Eagles were overused, it was clearly the most poupolar weapon because of it's speed, strenght, etc. ("Even my grandma can own with deagles" for example). There were several problems about DEagles, spray, but now the main problems are the overpowered MP5 and Barret (it became too easy to use, it's like the same with DEagles in 1.2.1).

Now in 1.3 everybody whines about the Barret and MP5, so my main point in this topic/post is that you guys should put back the 1.2.1 weapon balance with a bit less overpowered DEagles, and you should remove the waiting time from LAW, it was so popoular those days, and that was not a problem, I don't really know why you guys nerfed it so much. The other point in 1.2.1 was the whining about autos, the spray, and it was nearly impossible to beat 2 AK's on main route with two non-auto weapons, autos should have recoil, that was a great improvement in the game.


1) You should use the 1.2.1 weapon balance with a few changes
2) Barret should be harder to use
3) Less damege for DEagles and MP5
4) Autos should have recoil
5) LAW shouldn't have charge-time
6) Ruger should be easier to bink
7) Spas: in 1.2.1 was good as it was, now it's range is too big, and it's overpowered, too easy to use
8) M79 bullet's speed is fine now, it should stay the same

October 26, 2005, 9:03 pm
Perhaps our next step ahead would be taking one step back? Discuss.

October 26, 2005, 9:12 pm
I don't think we should just go back to what the balance in 1.2.1 was like.

You also shouldn't generalize so much. "we, the players, realised the balance isn't that great after all" <- Every player did, yes? I don't think so.
Also about the LAW: "it was no problem" <- Really? It was used by about 90% of the people in clanwars, you could kill someone nearly as easy as with the Barret, also similiarly fast. I do think it was a problem. The problem now isn't that LAW is too weak. Try it, actually use it for some time and you'll notice that only the knife is overpowered, not the LAW overnerfed.

At least I'm of the opinion we have a pretty good balance in 1.3. Stuff like the M79, Barret or Knife have to be nerfed, and things like MP5 and Ruger have to be tweaked. But overall it's one of the best balances so far, with only some obvious and major problems that can be solved.

October 26, 2005, 9:21 pm
Taking a step back is a stupid idea IMO.

The balance is very good this version with a couple minor problems.... these can be fixed..

October 26, 2005, 9:24 pm
Let's discuss all the weapons, what should be the same or be different? Please take this seriouly, this is nearly the most important thing in the game. The balance decides the gamestyle, the ways of playing, the whole game.
My opinion:

1) Desert Eagles:
Back in 1.2.1 everybody was whining about overpowered DEagles, it was cleary the most popoular weapon, because of it's high damage and range. Now in 1.3 it became less overused, it should stay the same.

2) MP5:
Now in 1.3.1 nobody whines about DEagles, everybody whines about MP5. MP5 is a submachine gun, so it should be powerful only in close range, or the range can stay the same, but with less powerful bullets.

3) AK
I think that AK is fine now, the improvement in 1.3 that recoil has been added to it is fine, in 1.2.1 everybody was whining about AK spray.

4) Steyr
Same as AK.

5) Spas
1.2.1 Spas was just fine, now it's too powerful and has a too big range, you can kill the enemy from a big distance if you use Spas in the right way. I vote for 1.2.1 Spas.
6) Ruger
Ruger has been nerfed, because it's reload time has been changed. It's still very powerful. I suggest that it should be easier to bink.

7) M79
M79 is great now, no problems at all, you guys have made it to be a fun-weapon, in 1.3.1 the bullet is 4.5% slower, and it's fine now.

8) Barret
It's the main weapon to whine about. Maybe now I'm a bit subjective because my main weapon is Barret, so others might disagree with me. Now in 1.3.1 Barret became the most popoular weapon again. Because it's too easy to use, you should nerf it in some way, it should be harder to master, now I'm talking aganinst myself, but still, it's too easy. Should it have a charge time? Should it be easier to bink? I don't really know...

9) Minimi
No comment...

10) Minigun
It's fine now. It is great that you removed the option of surfing. Now it's fine.

11) LAW
It has been nerfed, it was overused in 1.2.1, but now nobody uses it, beacuse it has the charge time, it's harder to master. I don't really know what should be changed in LAW, I never used it, never liked it, not my cup of tea.

12) Knife
Since LAW has been nerfed, it became very popoular, everybody uses it, and it is very easy to master it.

13) Socom
I guess it is a bit overpowered, if you master it, you can beat a player who uses Steyr for example.

14) Chainsaw
Who the hell uses it?!

This is my opinion, I would like to see what other players think about this. Agree? Disagree? No one is perfect, we can't have the same opinion. Please take this seriously, because it is a very important part of the game.

October 26, 2005, 9:35 pm
Easy solution. Go back to 1.1.5 (I'd even accept 1.2, anything (except 1.2.1) is better than the [CENSORED]e right now).

October 26, 2005, 9:38 pm
let's go back to 1.2, I don't like invisible nades. if not, then nerf barret somehow. it shouldn't be able to shoot when airproning at least

Deleted User
October 26, 2005, 9:42 pm
Too be honest im a bit biased since im a clanwar player and I prefer to have better balance in clanwars than in pubs. And I also do not think its possible to achieve good balances in clanwars and pubs, you have to pick one over the other, so here is what I think about every weapon. Taking a step back to 1.2.1 is a horrible idea, this version is the best balanced version I have played.

1. Desert Eagles - They do not really need to be changed anymore
2. mp5 - Needs some tweaking, less damage is a good solution.
3. AK74 - Is almost perfect, 1 or 2 points less damage would do it good
4. Steyr - This weapon usage has significantly dropped, I think decreasing the selfbink is a good idea for this weapon. I would look at this weapon as being very accurate but weak. so reducing selfbink and damage could give this weapon a unique "feel"
5. Spas - It has been improved, and it has a relatively good balance with other semis like Deserts and ruger. Its advantageous in certain situations which is a good thing, I dont think it needs tweaking
6. Ruger - Im not really sure what to do with this weapon, I totally suck with it and its not as "easy" to use as it was in 1.2.1, but the weapon usage hasnt dropped. Reducing its damage is a horrible idea though, I would go with alternative solutions.
7. m79 - Honestly I view no problem with this weapon, but thats most likely because its my favorite weapon. But considering the complaints of other members, I would suggest slightly increasing its reload time.
8. Barret - No charge time please, go with a different solution such as reducing its clip to aorund 3 or 4 bullets or something. :P
9. Minime - The least used auto in this version, dont know why but it seems fine to me.
10. Minigun - Has to be improved in some kind of way so its relatively effective to kill people
11. LAW - 2 solutions, either bring it up to the level of knife or bring knife down to its level.
12. Knife - Look above
13. Socom - If knife is weakened, this weapons damage should be weakened a little, if LAW is strenghtened, this weapon should remain like it is now.
14. Chainsaw - Give it the 80 ammo and this weapon could be played in a more competitive manner.

October 26, 2005, 9:43 pm
I'd rather have semi autos like DE being overpowered rather than having autos overpowered, since semi autos take a lot more aiming :I

Nowadays I don't see many semis in clanwars, just autos and 1-shot-kills, mabbe that's because you have to 100% of the time with semis to stand a chance against 2 autousers...

October 26, 2005, 9:59 pm
very good post text_killer! i agree with you for like 75%

Chainsaw is quite good in a group of people; try it ;).
AK is a very tiny bit too weak , just a little more accuracy will do.

Anyway, the barret-comment you gave is exactly my opnion , it's too easy to use.
Same for Socom , socom is stronger than the AK if you are as good with Socom as you are with Socom.

Very important:
Please stop LOWERING the gun's power: we'll end up having weapons with which you need to pump 1ton of lead in someone before he/she actually dies. I Suggest giving the weapons more power instead of lowering them.
The LAW vs Knife is an exccellent example of this.

Grtz , DePhille

October 26, 2005, 10:50 pm
quote:Originally posted by RuneNowadays I don't see many semis in clanwars, just autos and 1-shot-kills, mabbe that's because you have to 100% of the time with semis to stand a chance against 2 autousers...
I just want to add that Ruger is used pretty much in clanwars. It seems to be one of the strongest/most useful weapons at the moment. And I'd say you are as chanceless against 2 (more or less defending) rugerers as you are against 2 autousers.

Deleted User
October 27, 2005, 1:02 am
1. Desert Eagles - They're fine. Maybe make the rate of fire a little slower.
2. mp5 - Either less damage or less range. Or less damage and range and give it a higher rate of fire.
3. AK74 - No problems with me.
4. Steyr - Although I have no problem with selfbink, the steyr's slef bink is... weird.
5. Spas - Damage needs to be turned down a little. Maybe to about 110 damage.
6. Ruger - Higher the bink or make the rate of fire slower.
7. m79 - Increase the reload time a bit and remove the jumping.
8. Barret - Make the bink wayyyyyyyy higher. Make it less easy to use while moving.
9. Minimi- Pretty good. Needs less selfbink though.
10. Minigun - Good for binking players. I think it's okay the way it is.
11. LAW - Make the bullet speed slower
12. Knife - Make it do 3/4 damage to even it with the law
13. Socom - Lessen the damage by 1/3
14. Chainsaw - Needs to be one hit kill.

October 27, 2005, 3:46 am
And on a side note ....the 1.2.1 shotgun dealt more damage with a shorter rate-of-fire than 1.3.

Perhaps the 1.2.1 spas shotgun only seemed 'right' because all the other weapons were more relatively powerful.

October 30, 2005, 1:23 am
Barret isnt lame its got crap reload if it miss's your omost instant death if the other person is useing anything other than barret.

November 2, 2005, 11:49 am
That is if you miss, my problems about barret aren't with the newbie users. But the ones where you don't get a chance to fight back.

Da cHeeSeMaN
November 2, 2005, 12:22 pm
maybe its true to get it right we must retrace our steps...
1.3 came out the weapon balance caused uproar...personally i dont see problems...but i love soldat so maybe i dont see the bad. Maybe the uproar was caused because 1.2.1 was well balanced?