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"So you think you can waypoint?" FAQ
Soldat Forums - Soldat Maps & Map Making - Bot Forum
Keron Cyst
October 27, 2005, 12:05 am
So you think you can waypoint?: FAQ for impatient waypointer wannabes (1337 examples!!1!11)





This is a FAQs-list for waypointers which targets especially people who want to wypt. maps even though that huge jumble of kindergarten-colored lines and bunches of boxes with smoothed corners looks like a bewildering mess, but who have relatively more common sense than a n00b and are willing to tackle the job (I was there once :-D).




Q: What if I don't want to read through your tutorial, however n00b-friendly it is?

A: You don't have to; I sure didn't read through my FAQ when learning, or even anything else aside from the official manual and other maps (after skimming through it Soap's looks really boring, for example - no offense! That's just how I found it). You just need literally hours of free time and a willingness to wypt., playtest, move a wypt. over a few pixels, playtest, etc. Basically, if you're a perfectionist and you like Soldat, you'll love to wypt.Q: You tryin' to start a new slang with that, shortening "waypointer" to "wypter?"

A: Maybe, indeed :-P I hadn't even originally noticed that "wypter" could actually be pronounced when I first thought of an abbreviation for it to use throughout this FAQ.Q: So, what should I be doing first?

A: The best thing right now if you have touched waypoints a little (and even if you haven't) is to be playing and getting used to Windowed mode. I was terrible at wypting originally because I play in Fullscreen most of the time (to see grenades better, to concentrate more on the game and not have to see my Gaim away msg. occasionally, etc.).Q: Whyzat?

A: The 1337357 waypoint-supporting map editors out there (MapMaker Plus and the official editor, AFAIK) are fit to the exact same size as windowed Soldat, so if you vaguely memorize how far a bot moves in a forward jump, etc. you have a better chance of "wypt.-guessing" which you'll be doing a lot, especially if the map has bots use their jet boots frequently (as playtesting, wypting, playtesting, wypting, and so on and so forth even more than you'll already have to, for every area soldaten jet in, is very tedious although some hardcore perfectionists will probably want to do it that way).Q: What the heck's AFAIK stand for?

A: "As Far As I Know." Go to [URL], gn00b.Q: Well? C'mon!

A: Don't rush me.Q: ...

A: There's no question to answer there.Q: So what are the basics to waypointing?! (Retard...)

CQ (Counter-Question): You know what the two paths are for, right?AFQ (Answer From t3h Questioner): Of course I read through the wypt. manual. It says to place the first wypt. in a respawn point.

ACA (Anti-Counter-Answer): Of course. Also make sure that if you're gonna be placing a spawn point get out of the Waypoints tab on MM at least (maybe MM+ too; but I can't get a download link to it); you can't do anything in the Waypoints tab but wpts.Q: Okay, so present the lecture we've all been waiting for.

A: There's no question to answer there.Q: ... what have you to say?

A: *launches right into it*

Here is Boxo's inf_Aardvark, wypted by semagae. This is all constructive criticism, now; no one is perfect ;-)

In areas where the soldaten are supposed to drop and just plain fall, he selected Down. Why is that? I should like to know as well; the bots already know that gravity pulls you down, and I especially don't know why when the manual specifically said "blue - crouch" (the lines turn blue when Down is checked)! How could attempting to crouch in mid-air let you fall any faster? Therefore if all you want the bot to do is fall down, don't check anything and establish the wypt. for the next one where it should, usually at the ground. Down should only be used in true war-like WWII levels and flat plains with little cover for instance, if even at all.


[IMAGE]


Yellow indicates jump. These two wypts. from the left connecting to the one to the right are indicating to jump rightwards. Why shouldn't that be done? Bots from the top will jump over the wypt., missing it and continuously acting as if they were soldaten holding W & A (until they stumble into an enemy, at least). Besides, they dash on their own; if all you have a bot do is go right or left it will automatically dash (the most efficient way of moving that most players do), when going up a steep hill (actually, just when the bot's not moving at its max. speed), so don't put a bunch of wypts. telling him to jump forward, run, jump forward, run, etc. like that. They will automatically dash up a hill so you don't need to do that unless it is really steep (and in that case you want the bot to jet or jump plain vertically anyways). You only want to specifically place a forward-jump wypt. right in front of a run wypt. if you're planning on having the bot jet (so he runs, jumps off a cliff or somethin', and then jets).

So for those two the Up commands can be removed.


[IMAGE]


No, that color's not part of the map; that just shows the terrain for exaggeration, and the white indicates passable terrain. We don't have to put many wypts. there; if all the bot's going to be doing is running to the right all the time during that area we can even have the wypt. line pass through a polygon or three as long as the bot reach the necessary positions.

However!!, there is a problem with this. What if the bot encounters enemies while on this string (the line connecting two wypts.)? If he defeats them and there is no wypt. nearby to get back on track the bot will just freeze and sit there. So unless you are certain the bot will never encounter any enemies along a trail (a.k.a. never), don't do this. If you've looked at ctf_Nuubia's official waypoints, tho', that's being way too cautious. ctf_Kampf, even (middle path), could be spaced out more; bots aren't that stupid xD


[IMAGE]


Now this is a tad more advanced wypt. technique. This example itself is easy to do, but we can use it to larger extents (we'll cover that in a bit). Here, the highlighted wypt. in the image shows the soldat running left, but ending right there. When a bot follows a wypt. trail to its end it'll just go along with whatever's nearby, so we can connect wypt. paths... without connecting them. Why would we want to do that? Well, the bot has to touch a wypt., not a string, to trigger it or else he'll keep performing the same movement. What if he misses that one? Why not just let him judge for himself which wypt. to take? And besides sometimes we get lazy and don't want to do all that [SHIFT] + right-clicking :-P

This shortcut technique is useful for having soldaten jet over some areas and quickly righting them back on track.


[IMAGE]
more complex example of trail end

Jet rightwards, that is.

See, we could've connected the last jet to one of the running wypts. on the other side but it's much easier and quicker to let the bot determine for itself as it automatically falls and runs after it reaches the end of the trail.


[IMAGE]
back of Alpha's base, starting from bottom & jetting upwards

This is quite an advanced wypt. task to do. Unless the space is almost nothing to have a soldat jet, this is nearly impossible to do perfectly without any playtesting whatsoever. Here is where we usually have to wypt.-guess and place wypts. where we think a soldat will reach by a time (since the wypts. are small and the soldat must strike them to activate the next wypt.'s action). I just created these wypts. so I myself haven't even tested this on the actual map; a wypt.'s probably off even though they look like they're in good positions to me. Memorization of the distances a soldat covers in Windowed mode is especially useful for troublesome sections like this, so you don't have to guess as much at the correct wypt. locations.


[IMAGE]
Bravo team heading left


Again, here is where you can cut down on wypts. All the bot is doing is just running left all the time so unless it doesn't manage to get over that pit in the bottom-right in the first place this is all I have to do; it will automatically dash over the hill and keep going 'til it hits the wypt. and change action accordingly. That is only to cut down on wypts., tho'; if they encounter and defeat or pass the line-of-sight of enemies there, they have no nearby wypts. to get back on track, however many strings there may be (in fact, the strings are only to show which wypts. are linked together; bots don't see strings at all).


[IMAGE]
northern front of Bravo base


Once more this is another wypt. guess-&-playtest trouble area. The highlighted wypt. has soldaten jet leftwards. If they miss that by even one pixel they will continue jetting leftwards as much as possible until they either encounter an enemy (in which case, until they are killed or defeat the enemy, they will resume bot movement in a manner similar to having ended a trail and randomly picking the next closest one) or run out of jet fuel.


[IMAGE]
bottom-left of Boxo's ctf_Xenonia


Another guess-&-playtest wypt. zone that I had to playtest through several times. Notice how just in case the Bravo bots miss the upper wypts. I put emergency jet wypts. right next to the bridge in the bottom-left; don't be hesitant to put extra guards like that.

Another hint: just put a makeshift spawn point right there in front of the testing ground, so you don't have to follow the bots all the way to it (especially since they travel all over a map in Deathmatch, etc.).


[IMAGE]
mid-eastern side of Boxo's ctf_Xenonia


Taking the northern path from the middle, a bot will run to the right, and then vertical-jump and jet straight up. See how I made the Up wypt. (highlighted with yellow path from below) a bit more to the right than directly above where it should be? You haven't forgotten that straight vertical jumps are a bit diagonal if you jump right after having moved forward or back, have you? Bots are exactly the same, and even more so, as they perform the next step as soon as they complete a wypt. In fact, because the bots perform the next wypt. action right away I should've put that highlighted wypt. more to the right. If you don't want to do that then I guess you can go with the Special function "wait 1 second" or "wait 5 seconds," etc.
Q: Wow, that's crazy. What other tips have you?

A: Remember that no human is perfect. Soldat = soldier ~ human (lol), so be aware that bots sometimes deviate a little in movement and/or initial positioning and prepare to make multiple, slightly differing pathways for bots to reach the same area if you find bots going off during wypt.-playtesting. Master the memory of how much distance a bot covers horizontally and vertically in jumping forward then jetting straight up and other complex moves like that and you will be the Yoda of wypts. B-)
Q: Is it possible to put jetting safeguards like this?:

[IMAGE]

A: No; your tiny noggin can't see why? Unless those two middle are not jet*, how do you expect a bot to jet downward when you (oh-so-unfortunately) can't tell a bot to prone (that is, perform the Superman, as that's the only way to jet downwards)? A bot will stick to a path once it's chosen it so you could make even 10 of those "safeguards" and if they're in the wrong positions, even by a hair, and a bot just barely misses the wypt. it randomly selected for its path, it's not about to switch to another nearby wypt. it may have scraped; there are seldom other reasons for a bot to deviate from its original path other than combat, or of course reaching a trail's end. Might as well just focus on a 100%-accurate wypt. path to playtest numerous times (to find correct wypt. locations like I did for ctf_Xenonia's bridge gap). Besides, it looks more professional and less cluttered ;-)

* - In that particular diagram none of them will work without severing two paths and adding a seventh wypt. You -could- make the middle "jump right" and the bottom "run right" but then you'd have to set the finishing 'pt. on the other side as "jet right" & the topmost wypt. wouldn't work with that.

Oh, and because bots are at least semi-human, bots forget stuff too. Remember some time back how I regarded long wypts. with no wypts. in-between for bots to get back to cause bots who fought and lived in-between those 'pts. have no wypt. to come back on track once more? They don't even need to get into combat; if a string is long enough, even if the action is just "move left," they might forget the path and freeze there and stop moving. Place wypts. along a trail to keep 'em on track.
Q: Why aren't the bots taking a particular path I set even though I think the wypts. are in good spots?
A: This happens to myself all the time in fact. Perhaps they aren't? If they are, realize that multiple paths are completely determined randomly and bots will just choose to their liking. However, bots like gravity and are more prone to take paths closer to the bottom of the level so keep playing. I test with 5 to 8 bots on one team, usually, and if they don't take a path I want to check, I immediately end the match and restart and keep restarting until they do.

T3h Summ4ry
Basically, it's all trial-&-error. Just follow this method and you can't go wrong if you at least know the basics:
1. test team 1 with 5-8 bots (see that all bots are able to reach every possible area the map's creator desired soldaten to get to)
2. test team 2 with 5-8 bots (sorry, no wypt.-symmetry-mode for symmetrical maps :-P)
3. test both teams in a bot match (check for any bots that can't recover their movement after fighting. If they freeze anywhere on the map and cannot resume movement without more combat you need to place more wypts. and cut down on string lengths).

BTW, if it's a small DM (like rainrider's Little Eden), I don't even bother to wypt. it completely; I just go about 80% and make sure there are at least two wypts. on every boudler, since the bots will ignore the wypts. anyways, being in combat so frequently.

Ah! One thing, very important; try not to mash wypts. from Path 1 and Path 2 too close to each other, literally pixel-wise. MM & MM+ (well, at least MM AFAIK) seem to glitch when this happens, and you might falsely connect a wypt. from Path 1 to a wypt. from Path 2, and that gets very pretty... :-S If you place a wypt. and can't select it after you place it unless you click around for a few times it might be conflicting space with another from the opposing Path so view All from time to time.
On wypt. strings: always direct them in the direction you plan you want them to go unless you want the bots to be running the opposite way, of course.
You can't sever a string without deleting a wypt. it's connected to AFAIK. What if it has many strings, and you just want to sever one? Put the tip of the mouse cursor so that it just barely covers over the tiny dot in the wypt's. center. Select the victim, remember its properties and other wypt. links, [CTRL] + right-click, & [CTRL] + left-click. Voila; restore all the other lives & its properties and go "Yay!!..."

... what?

Camping and Special Functions

Whoever wypted. ctf_b2b apparently thought that the "Stop and Camp" function applied to the next waypoint. It applies right to the wypt. that it is on. If you set two wypts., one just being in front of a SP and the second being "move right" and "Stop and Camp" the soldat will move right first and stop and camp at the wypt. that directly says it.

[IMAGE]

The bot will stop at the highlighted wypt. and sit there for 5 seconds before continuing on. He will not stop at the first wypt. and wait before going to the middle; special actions apply directly to the wypt. they are on, whereas actual move actions (e.g. jump, move left) are determined by the next wypt. that they are connected to.

1337 Skillz: Advanced Bot Movement

Alas, if only you could tell bots to go prone... >:-)

There are only so many 1337 movements bots can perform. The most obvious & simplest is having bots roll; play with Bravo only on inf_Aardvark.

Bots always face wypts. they are trying to reach so if you can have 'em go one way but face the other you might get interesting bot movement. Later I may put information on The Proximity Factor which might be able to be manipulated to force bots into backflipping.

Pathing: joining Paths 1 & 2

In DeathMatch, TeamMatch, RamboMatch, and PointMatch, unless you force bots to take Path 2 by putting only Path 2 wypts. around a spawn pt. and nothing from Path 1 they will always take Path 1 upon respawn. Find appropriate places to join paths; e.g. if there is a big drop and a bot can go either left or right, and your history of wypts. on the map has Path 1 going left at the bottom of the pit and Path 2 going right, connect the falling wypt. path to both left and right (the other path would presumably be used for bots to jet upwards; you can join Paths 1 & 2 to that as well). A nice hands-on example of this would be DeMonIc's Niebelung.

HTF wypts. are exactly like CTF; the only difference is you have to make the bots continue to run towards the enemy spawns past the Yellow Flag. If the map is circular and chaotic, like htf_Nuclear or The Geologist's htf_Muck, where spawn points for teams are scattered everywhere, simply join paths accordingly.

Pathing

Bots will always be loyal to their respective path. Connecting Path 1 to Path 2 on a particular route in a map is useless on CTF, Inf., and HTF. If you chain a Path 1 wypt. to a Path 2 wypt., and then go on for Path 2 wypts. all the way when the bot was originally on Alpha (or was a Bravo flag-carrier), it would only follow the first Path 2 wypt. Then it'd ignore all other Path 2 wypts., even on a trail, and locate the nearest Path 1 wypt. and continue from there. Connecting to different paths to continue from only works in DM, PM, RM, or TM.



In other words, I pretty much screwed up htf_Muck since I didn't understand that important fact at first :-P Let's hope The Geologist doesn't read this... oO'

Probability: Path Division

I'm sure you all know that if there are more than one path to take (e.g. every single map except LaGrange), you simply connect two wypts. one where it is appropriate to break off, etc. But here's something interesting I've found in my wypting. knowledge; bots tend to take particular paths more than others. Here are my findings (some might be inaccurate), with the lowest # being the most likely path a bot will take when forced to choose:
1. up
2. move left/right (yes, they actually like to jump more often than just move left/right)
3. jet & move left/right and jet (they're about the same)
4. move left/right and up (forward leap)
5. move left/right and down (roll into crouch)

Probability of a bot picking a particular trail also depends on how far the next wypt. is; bots are more likely to choose a more complex but closer trail than a simpler yet farther one - this is very important! Even just a few pixels farther away will make bots almost always 100% take one path and not another. If you want to make sure bots take all possible trails in a place on a map where you can go up or down, etc. (like ctf_Run), extensive playtesting is needed.

Eh? What's that you say? Out of two trail divisions, bots 75%+ chose one path? You're sure proximity of the wypts. (see The Proximity Factor) isn't interefering? If a wypt. is very close and bots are still taking the other, common path, just create 2+ wypt. trails leading to the same area so they're more likely to take the one that lacks bots since if they miss the first one they still have a chance of getting to the desired trail through the second, third, etc.

[IMAGE]
Alpha side of The Geologist's inf_Iceberg

If you want them to take the northern route more, just add an extra wypt. branch leading to the same trail, as mentioned above.

What? What now?... You say they still take the lesser route and even sometimes they screw up in taking the desired path and fall to the inferior one? Perfect; time to cut down on their stubbornness. Kill the trail leading to the lesser route completely (not the entire path, just that one wypt. with the string that leads bots into it) and force them to take the other, but don't touch those wypts.; you said they falter and fall to the lower one occasionally so just leave it at that.

You always want to aim for equal distribution of bots among trails. In some cases spawn points play a crucial role in that, especially in HTF, but everything can be solved by playtesting.

The Proximity Factor

You already know that as soon as a soldat strikes a wypt. it performs the next wypt's. action, right? And you now know, thanks to yours truly and this 1337 FAQ, that the strings connecting wypts. are totally invisible to bots and serve little purpose other than guiding the wypter. like j00 and j00rs truly and making wypts. active (it's true; if you set a wypt. blankly in space, even if it has a set action to perform, as long as it has no strings its existence is meaningless).

A bot will change its actions according to any wypt. it next strikes, even if that wypt's. on a different path than the bot's original trail; the bot will also change paths accordingly.

This becomes a big problem when path-splitting in a certain area on a map causes one trail deviation to roll or continue to move right and fall through a hole, and another to jump over the fall, to become likeable. If you set the wypts. close enough in a particular manner that seems all right the bots will always take one path; that's the closer one, because they are nicking maybe even just one or two pixels of a wypt. which is on a completely different trail than the intended.

For a safeguard, I have them break at different wypts. which are far away from each other.

Subsection: Some Camping and Others Moving

So your map is a flat line like LaGrange? What if you want some bots to camp at a sandbag or somethin' but others move ahead? Here is what the n00b would do:

[IMAGE]

Lovely swamp trees, aren't they? Now here is what I'm sure you 1337 wypters. would do:

[IMAGE]

Reason for the difference is in the image. Reason for the SP difference is because if they spawn and start moving east right away, that close, they might come into contact too soon with the S&C wypt. and not be able to avoid it. Therefore I moved it back (or you could place a wypt. with no action under it and not have any bots from it do anything until they hit the ground).

Wypting. Food for Thought

In probability, a bot will only take paths that a wypt. splits off into. But that's not where the main emphasis of the sentence should be, for something a bit invisible to the mapper's naked eye; it should be the sole fact that a bot will take paths that a wypt. splits off into. Want bots to take a particular path where some trail splits into 2+ but the area is too congested to make more wypt. trails going to the same area (that is, or else The Proximity Factor would start disrupting) or the wypt. locations are just plain inappropriate / too lazy to make more? Simply connect a wypt. to a wypt.... twice. Or even more. It doesn't look like anything happened, but now there are two strings between the same wypt. paths, which means that bots are that much more likely to take a particular path. Pwn.

Understanding the Proximity Factor more in-depthly

[IMAGE]
Bravo side of Boxo's ctf_Struggle

Well, now. That is an enormously open space. How can you be so sure of setting only one trail of wypts. to hit on the dot exactly? Well, you can still keep doing just one trail, but just in case your bot quickly gets into and out of combat or simply reveals its imperfect nature as in all humans, take advantage of the proximity factor and set other guards around, in case the bot misses the initial one.

More food for thought

You know half-lives, right? Those graphs where the line on the XY chart looks kinda like a fourth of a circle? Yea, you wanna model wypts. kind of around that style if you're having bots vertically jump after having ran in a direction and jet in that same direction. Don't put a Left/Right + Fly wypt. far away; you need more than that for some reason (bots' attention spans don't last very long) - they seem to stop moving in a direction and simply fly up if the wypt. is too far away from the last one telling them to jump.

Notes on Anna's Soldat PolyWorks waypointing system

PW is basically the exact same as MM+... just different commands on triggering properties and stuff. The functions are just like PW in all its other functions; hold Alt to select, CTRL to drag, click to create...
Here are the main features PW has over MM & MM+:
--> you can make a chain of waypoints with the same property, useful for long stretches of bots just running; automatically strings new wypts. as you go
--> you can sever a particular string if you highlight both waypoints, or all the strings of one wypt.
--> you can grab multiple waypoints and move/delete them all at once (with the vertex-selection tool)

NOTE: PW is very tool-interactive!! If you're going to be working with waypoints it's best to turn scenery and objects invisible, as if you're selecting waypoints you might select something else that's not a waypoint at all and accidentally delete that or wh'ever. The tools' functions combine into each other so make-visible only what you are working with to be completely safe.

Killing the texture and maybe BG colors also helps with the eyes somewhat ;-)

Notes on Soldaten's Momentum / Kinetic Energy

"Bodies in motion tend to stay in motion." - Isaac Newton, 1337 physics redefiner

[IMAGE]
Western side of htf_SuperPants

(Wireframed because the actual level is virtually impossible to see, being so dark)
Look at that crucial waypoint on the pillar in the center. You want to make absolutely sure the bots can get that or else they'll always just fall down past the pillar and never reach the higher area after the jump. If they always drop down that'll be boring. If you stop holding right-click after having jetted for a while, you'll still move up for a bit. Same with bots. That's why the highlighted "jet straight-up" waypoint is so low; the kinetic energy will keep the bot moving upwards as it heads eastwards for the pillar.

[IMAGE]
Western side of htf_SuperPants

Okay, so I'm working on these waypoints and they're not quite finished. Point? What I mean is that normally one would set the highlighted waypoint here to "jet right," not just "right." There's still some space to clear, tho'. However, watch the gravity! Leaping and running in mid-air doesn't last too long on the same line of the X-axis. When you establish the next waypoint, which I've no doubt in that scenario you'd put "jet right" (or even just "jet" from the kinetic energy of the soldat still moving rightwards due to the speed of the initial leap & run), make sure you take the gravity and the bot's current position after it strikes the "run right" waypoint into account.

And BTW, that "jump right" waypoint from the pillar is so high up as compared to a normal one because of the darned Proximity Factor; if it is too low those who crouch will get ensared into the other trail, and we don't want that, now do we? ;-) Thankfully, the gostek is so humongous all you need to do is make sure one pixel of a soldat's head clips the center of that wypt. to keep him on trail (I usually lower it tho' just to keep things simple and easy to see).

Argh, Bugs!

MapMaker and MapMaker Plus are slightly buggy when it comes to waypoint-deletion. If you delete too many too fast, a second, possibly random (but possibly having to do with the order you initially created them in as well) becomes deleted with every next one you delete. Sometimes, upon deleting, creating, and connecting quickly, a waypoint will disappear, leaving behind a ghost in which the string attached to it seems to be connecting to nothing. To avoid either of these time-wasting glitches, wait at least 2 seconds between deletion of multiple waypoints.

(I actually realized that time was the key to avoiding these bugs long ago, but I've just been too busy recently to talk about them).

On the Improbability of Waypointing a Reverse-CTF Map

Here I will designate two groups of soldaten on a reverse-CTF team:
Chargers (no, not the American football team): these are the guys on a regular CTF map, who storm an enemy base and try to grab the flag; and Reverse-flagcarriers (RFCs): this is the annoying team bot, who ultimately renders impossible the successful waypointing of most reverse-CTF maps and must take a different route from Chargers because, in carrying the flag, it uses the opposite route!

Let's say ctf_Run's flags were inverted. There are numerous ways the map can be waypointed since, in essence, there are four "teams" you have to manage, all on two paths. To take the most efficient path, let's simply use PolyWorks to change the teams' Paths (1 -> & 2-> 1), but now the flag paths must be inverted. We want both chargers and RFCs who spawn in the flag base to run forward, so even though the enemy RFC must eventually take the charger's path (who, here, are going away from the flag when the RFC's trying to get to it), we can deal with that later, but this shows why RFCs must take 1+ paths exclusive to all chargers.

...

Well, this leads into something else important to RCTF maps, so lem'me disembark from my amazingly vivid ctf_Run example. The chargers must be set on patrol routes for whatever paths they are to take if possible; e.g., if chargers take two paths, one muist be used for going forward, and the other for reverse movement (or chargers could take all routes and jump off the map or stay on a Hurts/Deadly poly, if applicable).

Put simply, life would be much simpler if bots could take the opposite teams' path. But anyways, ctf_Run is nice since it has three routes; the bottom route can be for RFCs, the top path can be for soldaten heading right, and the middle path can be for soldaten going left. So, in the beginning of a Rctf_Run match, all Bravo bots would take the middle path, all Alpha bots would take the top path, and they would go in a circular motion using only those two paths throughout the match while both teams' flagcarriers continuously take the bottom tunnel.

It depends on the structure of a level, really, but basically, more paths is easier, and unless the map has unlimited jet fuel, a map like LaGrange turned into RCTF is impossible to waypoint. (2 paths could be possible, but level layout is still vital).

papasurf31
October 27, 2005, 1:23 am
Wow, this might be the most useful thing I've ever seen come from you. Good [CENSORED]ing job.

STICKY

Deleted User
October 27, 2005, 2:49 am
7|-|47 IZ K001 4 j00 |\|00|3Z 0U7 7|-|3R3!
that is cool for you noobs out there!*

looks good :D

3DI7:
reread- lol, thanks for the info(i now need to fix wip maps :P )


Keron Cyst
October 27, 2005, 6:22 am
*lol* Sorry if it was kinda harsh towards you :-P papasurf31's message certainly was (I view it that way, at least)...

vash763
October 27, 2005, 7:38 am
Very nice, it seems like waypointing is getting much more popular.

Sticky

Keron Cyst
October 27, 2005, 3:51 pm
@vash': Nah, it's me. I'm just making a big deal out of it :-P I can't get over having successfully wypted a 1337 map on my first try, so... lol

Please don't hesitate to tell me of any other wypt. scenarios I might've missed so I can throw 'em in here as well.

Melba
October 27, 2005, 4:35 pm
quote:Q: What the heck's AFAIK stand for?

A: "As Far As I Know." Go to [URL], gn00b.

I find this quite ironic. :DDD

papasurf31
October 27, 2005, 5:00 pm
I'm sorry, but it's true. Take it as compliment. Spammer

Keron Cyst
October 27, 2005, 6:35 pm
All right, so I'll never get used to the forum code here... edited... ¬.¬

mar77a
October 27, 2005, 10:07 pm
Nice.

There is some advanced stuff like probability, camping, some paths things and maybe some moving stuff (like "Wait x sec" usage) that are not included buuuuuuuuttt; I repeat, nice.

Keron Cyst
October 27, 2005, 11:45 pm
"Probability?" What witchery be this "probability" you speak of?...

vash763
October 28, 2005, 12:02 am
quote:Originally posted by Keron Cyst@vash': Nah, it's me. I'm just making a big deal out of it :-P I can't get over having successfully wypted a 1337 map on my first try, so... lol


i mean I've noticed alot more waypointers lately

Keron Cyst
October 28, 2005, 6:06 am
Yeah, I understood that from the first, but the only other wypter out there who seems to be working much is semagae. There is no other waypointer I know out there right now (who's working, at least), so that's why I said "it's just me."

"Wypt." failed to take root (as replacing "waypoint"), it seems... ;-|

@papasurf31: you think I spam? You seriously think I spam?... a few people consider reaching 100,000 posts on a forum quite a feat. Everyone else thinks it impossible. And when am I trying to not clarify something, show something, defend/suggest something, or give help to someone? Not too many people consider that spam (and Lounge, Bash Pit, and Testing forums don't count). If it's really just about the stars then go tell DNA.styx to mod into the forum a "Donate posts" function and I'll seriously give 'em all to you if you want.

The Geologist
October 28, 2005, 6:25 am
Domo aregato, Mr. Roboto.

Hopefully this will help many of those who claim "it's too hard to waypoint my maps". The pictures are good, well explained examples...me likey very much. Just glancing over, still reading...if I see any other wypnting scenerios, I'll be sure to point 'em out.

Keron Cyst
October 28, 2005, 2:30 pm
T'anks, t'anks (I really value your comments). But I thought you weren't into wypting...?

Or are you now, due to this? :-D

mar77a
October 28, 2005, 9:40 pm
Keron, "probability" deals on which path will the bot take depending on the amount of connections made. And yeah, it's advanced stuff.

Deleted User
October 28, 2005, 9:41 pm
This should be Pinned and closed.

The Geologist
October 28, 2005, 10:35 pm
lol...I'm not "into" it, but I have no problem doing it. Some of your tips are really close to what I do, so I can only give the thumbs up here. I used to waypoint all my maps, but the past few semesters have been a lil busier...making the maps is enough, waypointing got tedious. Maybe I'll change that some time soon..

Keron Cyst
October 28, 2005, 11:37 pm
No, lem'me do 'em!

@Dezonus: why closed? That way people can just tell me of any other situations I can note on, and if it's closed I can't edit the post to add anything.

EDIT Added an extra question to the FAQ, just above T3h Summ4ry. Why is this still not pinned? I'll be getting another image example soon from ctf_Neonia.

EDIT #2 Image for special functions added (very bottom of threadstarter).

Deleted User
November 21, 2005, 4:09 pm
Well, this did save me some time. I'm used to throwing wps all over the place when it comes to jetting. It worked very well, but it wasn't time-efficient.

EDIT: I meant throwing wps all over the place wasn't time-efficient. >.<

Keron Cyst
November 21, 2005, 10:03 pm
New section added at bottom of threadstarter. Expect three more soon.

@aznbl00d: I could do that if I wanted and save proba'ly an hour or so of testing, but I like to play with intelligent bots and think everyone else who prefer to play offline do too ;-)

EDIT New section regarding pathing (that is, joining paths 1 & 2 when it comes to game modes other than CTF and Inf.; those paths are explained in the manual.

EDIT #2 Two more sections tossed in, one being the infamous Proximity Factor I'm sure everyone's been waiting for (:-P). Those, BTW, in that screenie of The Geologist's htf_Muck, are my recolored wypts.; they are far easier to see and distinguish the two teams apart IMO. If anyone wants 'em just PM meh.

I think I've covered just about all possibilities with waypointing. I still have to go into pathing for different game modes and need to put up examples for getting bots to backflip.

mar77a
November 23, 2005, 10:54 pm
now it's the moment to say nice.

Swebonny
November 25, 2005, 4:09 pm
WOwo holy jesus this make me the Noob understand everything. Nice Keron. And a question:..how long did it take you to do this guide

Keron Cyst
November 27, 2005, 5:07 am
Quite some hours, on and off. The later half I wrote on paper, late at night before bed, or during skool when there was nothing to do, and typed it all in at 110+ WPM when I had the weekend chance.

Deleted User
November 27, 2005, 2:12 pm
well it helped me :P

Keron Cyst
December 3, 2005, 11:18 pm
New section: food for thought. I'll just throw all my thoughts there from now on out.

OutofOrder
December 26, 2005, 4:46 am
Keron, could you please give links to your top 2 or 3 best waypointed maps?
now that polyworks supports waypoints, i think i'm going to waypoint my own maps :P so i wanted to have really good examples at hand. thanks :)

Keron Cyst
December 30, 2005, 9:31 pm
I need to add more sections; hang on. I'll be thinking of my personal bests while I'm at it ;-)

EDIT Added a minor section on bots' loyalty to their respective paths. For one, I will have to say Bravo path on Boxo's ctf_Xenonia. Try rainrider's [url="http://archive.forums.soldat.pl/topic.php?topic_id=30437">Coffeecup for rudimentary movement.

If you're feeling crazy and want more DM pathing info try my Fracas ;-D

OutofOrder
January 3, 2006, 11:13 am
Thanks for the links.
I don't know why, but when you link to "http://soldatforums.com/..." and you don't add the "www.", i get a "You're not logged in" error :P If it happens to you, then please fix those links (although i could enter by adding the respective www.)

Hoodlum
January 3, 2006, 8:38 pm
God damn I didn't think it was that hard.

Keron Cyst
January 17, 2006, 6:39 pm
Actually it's not, really. You just need to be an annoying, micromanaging perfectionist like me who criticizes every little thing and literally has hours of time to do so ;-P

EDIT Added minor note on PW's waypointing system.

EDIT #2 Added two major notes on kinetic energy, something I hadn't covered before (ooh, ah). Gah, I still need to get up notes on getting bots to backflip-jet...

OutofOrder
February 2, 2006, 11:01 pm
Could you explain how is this an "Interactive Guide"? :P

Keron Cyst
February 5, 2006, 5:17 pm
I couldn't think of any way to word it.

It actually talks to you and insults you and orders you around. :-P Kinda like some famous people you find in history books...

EDIT Added section On the Improbability of Waypointing a Reverse-CTF Map

Sorry, DeMonIc ;-P I don't think ctf_Cruel will be successfully waypointed until Summer, given my current calendar's numerous events...