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Soldat Forums - Soldat Talk - Weapon Balance Discussion
October 31, 2005, 5:01 am
im reading around, listening to people, telling me how these servers are going.

ive been playing soldat since 1.03b. ive never beta tested, or been invited legally, so i have no previous experiance with balancing the weapons. yet i also have 4-5 registered copies of soldat, but i dont post here, so ive never been invited.

im hearing delay to m79, delay to barret.
im also hearing a 3% decrease in damage to the ak....ok...
and of course, law is still nerfed...

times have changed since that version. for sure. im just so lost as to who the heck these beta testers are.

my first comment.
1) barret will never be stopped. we are playing a 2d game, and we complain about a weapon that in real life can shoot over 150 miles without losing the slightest amount of energy or trajectory.

in the situations we hate, specifically campers, will never be fixed. the fact that this weapon, a sniper rifle in general, in a 2d game, where the bullet goes across the enitre map, it will always be a problem. how many of us remember when they added bink? did it stop them? no. how many of us remember when he made it so that flying while shooting made your aim horrible. did it stop them? no. adding wait times to the scopes, did it stop them? no. there are still dominant players with that weapon.

there is nothing that can be done to fix the barret. give up. give them bink, give them no scope, give them a clip of 100 bullets.

now, onto my problem with this. an ak shoots nowhere near as fast the aug, and the spray on it when holding the fire button is horrid (which is why i tap, and not spray). it reloads slow, and fires slow, and doesnt have as long a trajectory as it used to. so were going to decrease its power as well?

a weapon is supposed to have pros and cons. especially when it comes to games. users of those weapons will be distinguished by their skills, when, and only when, they are able to take advantage of the pros, to the fullest potential they divulge, and make up for the cons, by either being skilled, a better team player than another who has better skills with the weapon in question, or simply being able to keep the cons to their minimum. when a weapon has nothing but cons, it cannot be used properly no matter how well you aim, no matter what speed you travel at before you fire, no matter who you are. Outcast, Spectral, Fabmanx, Marbire, Or Nadj Himself.

in response to the balance. all i have to say is this.

Mancer said in another thread....

Mancer: I definently agree with the reload time being a half second/second longer. - talking about the m79.

how the heck can anyone say something like this when the gun they themselves use is overpowered? the ruger is quite frankly the most powerful and accurate weapon in the game. hell, even i am starting to be good with it, and thats saying alot! 2 torso shots and its game over. tell me, when someone is going over b2b, or crossing voland, with an aug or ak(which typically takes 5-6 upper torso/headshots to kill, from a moving stance!), and sees someone who is even semi-skilled with a ruger, supposed to do?

my last comment has to deal with the deagles. im not sure what needs to be done to them, they are powerful, but that is reminiscant to any other game that contains them. not the fastest shooters, or the straightest, but they reflect their real world counterparts perfectly. maybe a small power tweak, very small. or, smaller power, quick reload, or more power, slower reload.

something just to make the deaglers think before they shoot.

my 2 cents.

And yes, i havent posted here in forever.


October 31, 2005, 6:50 pm
Good points all round there guv. I agree with most of it (myself a ruger user for a long time too), although can't say I know jack about the desert eagles.

And I can't understand your problems with the ak74 either, really. I find that weapon terribly useful, and on occasions have managed to hit people far away with every shot. It suprises me, as I often can't do that with the weapons I use more often.... am I alone there?

Deleted User
October 31, 2005, 6:52 pm
1st off, the barret IRL has an effective engagement range of 4700 yards. AKA 2.67045455 miles.
The only fix to the barret is to delete it.
You can still spray by tapping.

2 torso shots? You must not play with ruger alot. 2-hit-kills are very uncommon now.
It's very easy to miss with the ruger, only REALLY good players will get consistant kills with it.
It it's an unskilled ruger user, I GUARANTEE YOU that the autos will win.
Deagles are annoying

I'm not saying do not nerf the ruger(or anything else), you have to take player's skills into the equation.

November 1, 2005, 1:28 am
I disagree with your opinion on barretts. Just becuase we havent made it perfect yet doesnt mean we cant make it better. We cant just give up because its hard. There definetely is a problem with a barrett, and it definetely needs fixing. Just go to any random nub pub and you will see that skilled players get bogged down by the endless amounts of barrett campers. It's not that they are not skilled enough to deal with them, its simply that its impossible to play to the max levels of fun and efficiency when everyone of low skill picks up a barrett and decides to camp.
HOWEVER, you do have a good point. Its been a long time and the barrett is still annoying. Theres no much technically that we can do.
Guys, the problem is not the barrett. The only reason why barretts are annoying is becuase there are too many users of them at a given time. I'm sure that you guys dont mind if in a 6v6 ctf game there are a maximum of 2 barreters on the enemy team. Its when theres so many that the game is degraded to a level of permission: that is, you can play and show your skill all you want, unless a barretter decides and manages (easily) to kill you. Thats when it gets annoying.
the barrett itself cannot be fixed much more, but it wasnt the problem anyways. It was the players. This means that OTHER weapons should be increased in effectiveness to give motivation to the players to try more weapons (i know this has already been suggested), and also to obviously combat the barretts. The barrett CAN be nerfed fairly if you increase the bink A LOT more. if a barretter gets damaged, then he should be given very little chance to hit anything accurately over a few inches on the screen. Currently in 1.3.0, binking doesnt do much. Also, an option could be added to limit the number of a certain weapon per team. And btw, no personal gun can fire over 150 miles. barretts reach NOWHERE close to that range. And no projectile can "not lose the slighest amount of energy or trajectory." but your point is taken: the barrett destroys things, as it should.

The AK seems fine to me. you say that all weapons should have pros and cons. no auto has more clearly defined ones: the slow use of the AK is offset by its formidable power.

quote:how the heck can anyone say something like this when the gun they themselves use is overpowered?
I'm pretty sure the ruger has no correlation to the M79. But i agree, the ruger should get nerfed a little.

I think deagles are one of the only perfect weapons now. everything seems to be in balance with them.

Bugs Revenge
November 1, 2005, 2:54 am
Ok so first of all, thanks for the comments..
now I will just respond for each..

about the AK, the whole point of the weapons is to be DIFFERENT.
that's why the AK has a way longer clip, strong bullets, but shots slowly and have a slow reload, you like the styer more? fine, so use it.
The AK was actualy hardly nerfed, to be spcified -2 dmg. out of about 200.. it's nothing.. just to make it a bit weaker then the styer coz it could beat it easily while it should be only a BACKUP weapon.

Next, Barret? yeah, it could never stop, but we have to do something about it, aren't we?
So yeah, some've been thinking about the delay, I actualy tried it and it's [CENSORED]ing annoying in my oppionion, there must be other option, and yeah, still there would be some who pwn with it *Remedy*

Next, M79? yeah, about it I totaly agree with you, this weapon is fine but when you see someone skilled you just think this weapon is overpowered which is mean.

I hope I've answered your question as someone of the betatesting group, it's not about only one but about the whole team which decide, so we decided to give the public the chooice.

Deleted User
November 1, 2005, 7:02 am
i reckon everything was fine in 1.2.1, just keep the self bink

November 1, 2005, 12:23 pm
Ruger might hit the first shot, but with an auto you should be able to bink him.
When the barret gets a delay, auto users get more chance to bink him.
Deagles and rugers aren't good for binking so I think they should be a bit more powerfull then the rest.

If you have so much to say about the balance, why don't you respond to the topcis already existing?

(please, stop referring to real-life, it has nothing to do with balancing weapons)

Da cHeeSeMaN
November 1, 2005, 12:26 pm
lol if you have an Ak and they have a rugar and you know how to aim...you will kill them...*If you get the first shot...because when you start hitting them they bink bad real bad :P

I agree with the barret ... whatever you do its not gonna work.
The deagles now i must admit i never see anyone using them...people say they are too powerful but it is hard to hit stuff with deagles because of the curve...

Deleted User
November 2, 2005, 10:27 pm
Maybe my autos are broken and my ruger pwns, but I see very little bink when shooting a ruger or when having a ruger and getting shot myself.
And I agree with what he is saying on the ak aswell, I don't think hes saying so much that its really bad right now as he is saying it would be dumb to nerf it more than any other auto. I don't know why the solution is always nerf this gun... nerf that gun... Why turn this great fast-paced shooter into a slow, almost tactical/boring game? Tactical play is for realistic mode, and while that is fun alot of the time I don't personally want a full realistic game.

November 5, 2005, 7:41 am
quote:Originally posted by Chakra`Good points all round there guv. I agree with most of it (myself a ruger user for a long time too), although can't say I know jack about the desert eagles.

And I can't understand your problems with the ak74 either, really. I find that weapon terribly useful, and on occasions have managed to hit people far away with every shot. It suprises me, as I often can't do that with the weapons I use more often.... am I alone there?

well mister chakra, ive only often heard your name, and i havent played with you much, although weve both been playing forever. theres something about the ak the throws me off, im not sure if its all this moving speed reflects dmg etc etc, but something is up with the ak.

zamorak tapping will not let you spray, its impossible, take an ak, and tap every single shot shot for shot. it wil go straight aty all times....

i agree with most of uyou guys

and mielos. stfu. i posted this to see what people thought of my comments, so i could reflect on them. thanks.

and swarmer, indeed, im fully aware of that. it just seems as something about it, even compared to the aug, im just not sure.

about the barret. when you guys do find a solution, i hope itll be a good one. ive seen alot of changes, and im still here. if i didnt like it i would not play.

also swarmer about barret you make good points. whats specificly bad about it, is a sniper in a 2d game. forget the campers, i couldnt care less. as long as there in no camping in scrims or cw's, im a happy camper (ha?) so much has been done. im sure when you guys figure it out, for the fial time, it will be set in stone.

thanks for your time guys, WoL-Shiver

Deleted User
November 5, 2005, 3:22 pm
You, sir, have just made excellent points. Barret is the only gun where you can bink the player, and they still get a shot off, missing you but killing someone else 300 meters behind you. Lowering the barret's damage will only lead to base campers. Why? How often do you see a player with full health in a base trying to grab the flag? Yes... Barret will supposedly never disappear, which leads to imperfection for Soldat.
About the LAW, though. I don't think it's nerfed... I just think that the other secondaries, besides saw, AREN'T nerfed. Like I said before, secondaries should be used as last resort weapons. And the knife/socom can be used as primaries.

November 5, 2005, 3:46 pm
Politeness isn't your favorite thing appearantly,

I told what I tought about your comments, what is bothering you?
saying stfu and avoiding my comments isn't going to make me shut up.

You're just pointing out the methods that didn't work and you're totally ignoring the new method(s) they have come up with.
the AK can be used without any loss to self-bink at all, you're just gonna have to train bashing your left mousebutton or whatever your fire key is,
I don't see any overuse of the desert eagles so I guess they are fine.

There now you have my tought of each and every weapon you commented on...

November 6, 2005, 4:14 am
deagles your right about, very right. and were lucky too. and, dont mind the stfu mielos, its the internet :P

anyhow, ive been bashing ym left mouse button forever, lol. im thinking something can be done for its power when moving. im not sure what the value % is, but, i think when moving ast with a ruger, it pwns the ak....