( search forums )
Soldat Forums - Soldat Talk - Weapon Balance Discussion
November 3, 2005, 1:49 pm
Again, no topics about nades, here's one.

Nades are a huge problem, nade jump aspecialy.
The wrost thing is an ak jumping you from above.
I have no problem with m79 jumpers, because they don't carry a machine with 40 bullets (3-4 heads shot and you're dead).

But that's not the wrost thing, I just can't stand that ping-pong feeling, where you just start blasing around like a ball being thrown side to side from all the nades ppl spammed u, your team and theirs.

The nades blast should be significantly reduced! now, I personaly know that MM likes nade jumps (I interviewed him duh).
But we also know he's a n00b (his words) , and with all do respect he doesnt have to play cw's againt sky divers who invest more time in jumping around then actualy playing soldat and fighting.

Knowing MM I know he won't be offended, after all he agreed he's a n00b and I have it recorded! ;)

November 5, 2005, 7:48 pm
actually its pretty bad on b2b(for the defenders as blue). you can even fly over them to their base up(i know you can, cause i invented this one). hmm but i dont see it as a big problem, you should rather improve the net code to make less invisible nades :)

Deleted User
November 5, 2005, 8:16 pm
What on earth...I'm not even going to reply on what ok has said, but eh LOL!

Anyways, The problem is the nade is the bugs, the most annoying thing.
I'd like MM to fix the bugs such as :
- Invisible nades
- Nades going through the body
- Nades that boost people instead of killing/damaging/hurting
- Nades that are useless because of the lag ( I'm talking about the lag right now don't consider this )

Deleted User
November 5, 2005, 9:06 pm
Everything that Ouchek said.

November 6, 2005, 1:07 am
^^Yeah, I'd say the nade bugs, both the newly introduced "arming time" bug and the age-old invisible/fake-exploding bugs, are a MUCH more severe problem than nade-jumping, though not a weapon-balance issue per se.

On topic, I think nade-jumping is silly, too easily abused, and in need of nerfing.

November 6, 2005, 11:03 am
quote:Originally posted by Timmyhuhu
actually its pretty bad on b2b(for the defenders as blue). you can even fly over them to their base up(i know you can, cause i invented this one). hmm but i dont see it as a big problem, you should rather improve the net code to make less invisible nades :)

Uhm, it would be pretty boring if you couldn't nade boost. It would make the gameplay very straightforward in maps like b2b, you would always know where you enemy is - infront of you!

Imagine you're blue on b2b in some clan war and you're behind with 1 cap, and there's 1 min left and red team is doing their best at keeping the score. So what do you do? You leap over them with nades and surprise them.

Nades are great in other maps too if you need to catch up on a flag carrier, or if you just want to go really fast.

And I don't see why this is a "huge" problem if no one never whines about it. In my entire soldat career I only saw two people accuse this of being a problem, Chakra and Ok.

It's pretty funny how this topic was made by an old school defender, by the way.

November 6, 2005, 1:46 pm
Atleast someone stays on topic.
I wouldn't say its just silly.
It completly eliminated the element of skill.
Most of nade jumpers I meet, who are considered good players, are easly beaten with their own weapon once you meet them face to face.
Thing is those players rarly will meet you like that, they prefer to run back untill they have a chance to nade jump on you again.
Its hardly the Soldat I once knew and loved, where you met your opponent and the better player won, and back then the better player was the smartest one with the better aim.

Deleted User
November 6, 2005, 10:52 pm
Nade jumping is a tactic. You can't usually pull it off while in combat, it takes some time to do anything with it, and it's easily countered by a few well-placed shots. I've never seen a game where nade jumping was abused to the point of being annoying. It's not a problem, leave it alone.

And yes, the bugs must be fixed.

November 7, 2005, 5:05 pm
Well if nade jumping get's countered m79 jumping should also get countered. They are both irritating imo, altough I have more respect for the nade boosters then m79 boosters ( it's more difficult imo ).

With all the bugs nades can have a lot of nade spraying seems to occur, and it's pretty much possible to make mine fields because those nades wait rather long to explode if they don't hit a player.
So I was thinking of making the nades explode faster or to reduce the amount of nades at spawn and/or in boxes

Deleted User
November 9, 2005, 10:31 pm
This has already been said in this topic, but ill just repeat to hopefully get more attention to these issues. The biggest problem I have with nades is the bugs. The invisible nade, the nade which goes through someone, the "lasting" nade explosion effect(when a nade explodes and you walk over the spot of the explosion a short time later, you die) are just annoying.

November 10, 2005, 9:30 am
First of all, nade jumping isn't THAT hard.
All you need is a proper ping (so you'll be more accurate with the nade timing).
Difference is, its much harder to deal with an AK sky diver then with an m79er.
shooting 2 ppl from above with AK will most likely garuante you a double kill.
M79 isn't that easy for that matter, you have 1 shot, which will be much harder is the player isn't directly on the ground.
If you nade jump you have the choise of any weapon to jump on them with.
With M79 you don't.

I also think m79 jumping should be nerfed, I completly disagree with the concept of using your own blast to your benefit in such ease.
I just think nades are much more of a problem then m79.
Espacialy when you think about how the EFC blasts out of your base from you nades insted of dieing.
That's not a bug, that's a bad side effect of nade blast.

November 10, 2005, 1:43 pm
I can just agree to that. I've also created a similiar topic in the beta forums some days ago, for the same reasons.
It's right that nade boosting isn't that hard. I'm not good at it myself, and I also don't even want to be good at it. But it's similiar to Spas: It's hard if you haven't done it before, but once you train it for a short period of time, you'll get used to it very fast. And the advantages of this are just too big for the effort. It gives you a great advantage for fighting your enemies as Ok said, you can be much faster, so you can even pass the enemies without taking much damage, and the most anoying thing is if you do it while carying the flag. Your enemies mostly just won't have a chance to follow you or even kill you, it's close to impossible most of the times.
My suggestion was to remove or drastically nerf self-boosting when you're carrying the flag. Boosting can also be problematic when the enemy doesn't have the flag, but most often you can still get him then, for example if you wait until he gets to the ground again. But boosting away with the flag is simply unfair, as written above. So I think this could be a working solution. And for all those realism-fanatics you could even say it's because of the huge weight this heavy granite flag has *cough*

And about the bugs the nades have, there's more to say than: True. I can only spoiler one of the changes in the next version: Nades won't explode when hitting corpses anymore. Because in 1.3 it often happens that grenades explode when being throwing against corpses, but actually they didn't, so you still die when walking past. Since Michal said a "fix" of this would cause a lot more lag, it will be removed at all. It isn't an any important part of the game anyway. :)

November 11, 2005, 3:38 am
ITs not just that.
The blast itself is a pain in the ass.
I'm sick of feeling like a bloody ping pong!
3-4 nades and I'm blasted on the walls like a useless peice of meat.
friendly nades, enemie nades, both of them together, creat too much mayhem.
Sometimes it get just too overwhelming, and you just drop the controls waiting for the mayhem to stop.

Deleted User
November 11, 2005, 9:45 am
What the hell ? a nade boosting damages you 99% of the time, +/-, depends really, but eh, you're already hurt when you face the ennemy, if you nerf the nade, that'll completly kill soldat.
Btw, I can just say that if misterx and ok had made the game, nobody would play it, it's like they take it to seriously...
I think soldat's a game to have fun...not to train one year to be good at it.
If you want to nerf things, and make evrything harder, just go play realistic.

November 16, 2005, 3:55 pm
Know what you mean guv, nothing more annoying than that pingpong-like feeling.
Though I despise M79 jumping just as much as I do nade jumpers.
The bloody tards can't fight like real men!

Deleted User
November 17, 2005, 12:08 am

agree %100

I don't like to scan UP and DOWN, especially on maps like b2b it can be a pain

November 17, 2005, 9:43 am
the worst thing about the nade is that it goes thrue the opponent...

[Edit by MisterX]
This is going to be fixed in the next version, don't worry :)

November 17, 2005, 10:42 am
i don't really mind.. if people wanna do nade/m79 jumping, it's fine by me.
But if it is such a huge problem, i suggest we increase the damage done by nades, and decrease how far away it blows you. That way, nade jumping can still be done, but it will be weak, and hardly an advantage!

November 18, 2005, 7:24 pm
IMO the must annoying thing with nades is that when your not playing realistic and smack some [CENSORED] with a grenade mid-air, they won't die, no one has much hp less after a nade but still, it's extremely annoying considering how cool it is to hit someone with a nade mid-air.

Actually, to my knowledge, the only way you can kill someone with full health using a nade is by making them trip on it, or throw it at their feet while they're flying, and that's just plain stupid, being able to kill someone by throwing a nade at their feet but not their face.


Otherwise nades are just fine, but I hate servers with a passion if max nades are 5.

Deleted User
November 18, 2005, 8:43 pm
First of all I didnt really read the whole thing so if I mention something that has already come up, sorry.

I see people asking to always nerf this, nerf that. Soldat is fast paced and is meant to stay that way, why turn this into a slow game full of mainly people spraying? That won't be fun at all.I don't really care either way how much damage the grenade does, as long as its consistant. I hate throwing a grenade into some one, shooting them with the Ruger twice and then have them throw one grenade at me and have it kill me. Also nade jump= more damage to them so I think its fairly even when simply used in battle. It shouldnt be a problem if you are using anything but an m79 or maybe a spas, everything else has the range to kill them fairly quickly.

An addition to damage might do the trick, more damage to jumpers and always a one hit kill? and whats up with the the ak... its not as overpowered as some may claim.(But thats another thread isnt it now...)

Deleted User
November 21, 2005, 4:11 pm
Nades are pretty hard to withstand other than dodging them. I think you should be able to shoot them to make them explode. This can also be an offensive stragety as well. =)

November 25, 2005, 7:54 am
I have a question in general. Is there something wrong with the net code in this version? Because I hear a lot of people talking about it, and i noticed a lot more hits not registering. If this is the cause of all the nade problems that I'm about to talk about, then ignore them. If not, then read on.

Nades register randomly. I noticed that some people i can always get a 1-hit-kill with a nade, but for others, it doesnt even scratch them. However, I check thier ping and its all pretty low. I dont understand why this happens. A nade should be a 1-hit-kill when its a direct hit, everytime the time. I hate getting 3 direct hits in a row on someone with a nade while he slowly kills me off with a styer and walks away unharmed.

Also, the way nades register on the server are messed up. Im sure all of you have experienced throwing a gernade arbitrarily away from you, and you see it go far away, and explode, and then you walk in the OPPOSITE direction, and suddenly you die from a suicide. It makes no sense whatsoever. I don't see how lag could even cause this.

But I've gotten pretty used to this (seeing how nades are my primary weapon), and just have accepted it as lag. I still view nades as the most powerful weapon in the game (by far (but still fair ;) )), and i am only dissapointed in that they could be even greater if theyd register more often.

November 27, 2005, 8:39 pm
I see NO point why to nerf nadejumping.

It is easy to learn, yes, nadejumping is a kind of a tactic in ctf.
The problem is mapdesing, you can not say "omg think ur bule in b2b and nadejumper comes omgomgomg takes flag and boosts and caps omg u get owned", dont blame nades, blame the map desing.

efc can boost away fastly -> do the same and shoot him down.

Ok, why do you talk about Ak + nades? liek "omg take nade and boost then ak kill 3-4 shots what can m79 do?!?!" nothing can M79 do against ak then, what can ak do if a good M79'er shoots at it, nothing, yep, quite balanced i'd say. :)

November 29, 2005, 9:30 am
First of all, Saw & Nades, saying nades are your primary is a clear proof that nades are overpowered.
Just like an AK shot doesnt kill in 1-2 (when it does in real life) so are nades need to be reduced.
You have 4 nades on most server and all leagues, considering 1 nade kills a person on direct hit, that's way too much.
Now do the math, 6 players times 4 nades, when everyone spams it, and you get a ping pong game that is won mostly by those amazing connections that just ignore nades as you've just said

Second of all, if anyone will be nice enough to translate Claw's post I would be happy to respond. ty (seriously, no offence but I didn't understand even 1 sentence).

Deleted User
November 29, 2005, 9:43 pm
Um... I think it starts as like Map design=bad, not nade boosting. Then goes into, "Why dont you do it and catch him?" and uh.... a little complaining about your seeming hate of nade+ak.

Anyways... I think again that as long as its constant, either 1 or 2 hits I dont care.

November 30, 2005, 6:21 am
um, how is my weapon preference proof of anything. If my primary was fists would you say they are overpowered?
How many people do you see using nades as thier primary? I can think of like no other person. Maybe Freeze.
quote:Just like an AK shot doesnt kill in 1-2 (when it does in real life) so are nades need to be reduced.
I dont see how this analogy makes any sense. Since when did weapon power have to be porportional to thier real-life counterparts? Even if you were correct, it takes about 0.1 grenades to kill someone in real life. So let's up it to 1, and thats what you have now.
People have had 4 nades for many years, and no one really complains. And since when does "everyone spam it"? It's only a few people who do, and they are easily dodged anyways.
Taking everything into consideration, especially if you factor in lag, nades are very hard to use and are defintely not "overpowered". A good nade user can be good, yes, but no much better than a good MP5 user or Deagle user.

Games are won by skill and teamwork, not nade spam. Nade spam kills people every once in a while, and is sometimes annoying, but is uncommon and perfectly legitimate.

November 30, 2005, 8:36 pm
quote:Originally posted by OkFirst of all, Saw & Nades, saying nades are your primary is a clear proof that nades are overpowered

Dude, nades are his primary because he's used them for 70 years and kicks ass with them. Maybe we should nerf the Deagles; obviously they're overpowered if Marb can use them as his primary and do well.

On topic, though, I think the main problem is definitely the bugs, as have been mentioned. Nade jumping does not need to be removed, it's a part of the game that can be dealt with. It's a viable tactic, one that takes skill to master, and I see no reason to remove something that most don't take the trouble to learn.

Deleted User
November 30, 2005, 11:12 pm
I personally have never had much of a problem with nade/M79-boosting, except for on b2b--and one map isn't a good enough reason to go all nerf-crazy on it.

In the end, it's the bugs that need fixing; fortunately, that's exactly what's being done. The only other thing I could want is for cluster grenades to break apart and explode properly when thrown against walls or ceilings. As it is, normal nades are more useful in most situations, making clusters a pretty sad powerup.

December 6, 2005, 5:54 pm
i agree with what Rune said
it allows you more options and prevents some maps to be straightforward

December 7, 2005, 12:36 pm
i don't mind nade boosting but i hate nade spam >.< i'd like to see an increased shot interval on the grenade. i hate having 4 dumped nades onto my face by every player i run across. it's really cheap.