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Applying more elements on the weapons
Soldat Forums - Soldat Talk - Weapon Balance Discussion
November 3, 2005, 2:01 pm
M79 and BARRET are now delayed!

As my former post was talking about a general advice to stop adding new elements to deal with balance.

I shall not do so since apperently self bink and bink are not relevant to the weapons balance... pfft

So lets just talk about the DELAY!
Law got nerfed really bad! its not that big of a deal, because its a secondary, bascly its useless with the delay, really easy to dodge.

Doing that to M79 and Barret or any other weapon is horrible! you're just killing it!
And as I said in my deleted post! its just a lazy way of dealing with the problem of the WEAPONS BALANCE *caugh* *caugh*

You have bink, use it! find the good balance betwin too much bink and too little.

And if you're going to delete this post, I'm gonna rape someone!

Nag nag, moan moan! - Demonic

November 3, 2005, 5:11 pm
I agree, adding delays to secondaries is questionable but adding them to primary weapons is horrible.

Demonic, did you make that (rather immature) edit just because this is your own pet idea? I didn't see you writing that sort of thing in the posts of people who whined on your side of the argument.

November 3, 2005, 6:00 pm
Originally I set this topic to hold, because I found it pointless (forseeing that 95% of the replies would go "I agree"). After a short discussion with Ok on IRC and after his edit, I approved the topic. The edit is there because I didn't want to make a pointless post, just edited so he can see that my opinion didn't change.

Charge time has always been in Soldat, only on the minigun though. In 1.3, it got used on the LAW (because when we binked it it fell down useless), and now it's being tested whit barret and M79 too, so it's not a new feature, it's just an unused one.

Deleted User
November 3, 2005, 7:26 pm
Charge time is a solution to nothing. It just makes weapons annoying and frustrating to use.

Deleted User
November 3, 2005, 7:34 pm
quote:Originally posted by DeMonIcOriginally I set this topic to hold, because I found it pointless (forseeing that 95% of the replies would go "I agree").

Would you have thought about deleting it if 95% said "I disagree"? :P

No, I would've admitted that I was wrong. - Demonic

PS - I don't edit posts. That's preposterous.

November 3, 2005, 8:44 pm
It's nice that you're all 'passionate' towards the balance. No really, the more people that project what they feel towards the balance, whether it be negative or possitive, the more we'll change it in that direction. 'dem 'da rules.

Personally, I find the law incredibly useful. Takes a bit of timing but if you're expecting someone, it's very handy.

Deleted User
November 3, 2005, 10:24 pm
But m79 is not a weapon in which you should have to expect someone. Its a assault weapon therefore the delay is a bad idea. its almost imposssible to hit anyone without practice with m79 or barret now, as is LAW, and its still pretty hard after alot of practice. Since the newbie population will never try to use these weapons since they are so difficult, they would switch to alternatives, and thats just bad because it would obviously cause these weapons to die out.

November 3, 2005, 10:59 pm
You mean its only usefull when one is camping.
Isn't that something we want to REDUCE in soldat?

Besides the point of this topic isn't just the use of delay, there are other elements that can be and god forbid will be added.

Recoil for example..
And you know what, maybe even you'll think to apply one of the changed ppl offered here, I saw ALOT of offers for new elements to be added, and also offers to use old ones on other weapons.

It only makes things more complicated and will be harder to achieve a better balance.

MY argument is: Tweak what is already there! stop adding more factors to the equation.
This is just like math, it is math actualy, the more factors you add the more complicated it becomes.

Deleted User
November 4, 2005, 12:25 am
Umm, isn't the point of the weapons mod forums is to get mass agreement on a balance?
Why do you guys always delete posts that have no reason to be deleted?


November 4, 2005, 2:58 am
i can't say that 1.3 has been an improvement over 1.2.1, but i'm glad to see MM is still pursuing soldat and trying to improve it. BTW where can i find this beata testing server?

EDIT: v1.2.1 is still out there and has a big following. if you don't like 1.3 then just go back to 1.2.1. i did.

November 4, 2005, 4:58 am
i honestly dont think delay belongs to any weapon other than the minigun

November 4, 2005, 5:16 am
I think that in adding (actually using as Demonic pointed out) the start up time, you are changing up the game and making it that much more exciting.

If all we had was weapon damage, then the game would be fun. Add different reload times, firing times; the game gets more entense. Add bink, and make the players movement affect the shot, the game becomes a bit more stratigic. So why not use this untapped resource of start up times in order to make the game that much more exciting and appealing.

Now you have a game that isn't won by the person who has the fastest reaction time, but by the person who is a well rounded player.

November 4, 2005, 1:28 pm
What is the problem with adding startup time? it's not realistic... fine, but it isn't realistic that it's a 2d world either.
I don't think adding huge amounts of bink would help because then auto-users would start spraying again to get the barrets and m79's binked.
and except for bink what other solution is there? Movement acc encourages camping and that is not a good thing either.

The startup time on the law was simply a bit to much and to buggy.

November 4, 2005, 3:47 pm
So I wonder how many of you who say "Don't delay to M79 or Barret, it ruins my life!" have actually tested it. Especially for the LAW. You say it's totally overnerfed and only good for camping. So have you actually used it for a longer time? I doubt it. I have switched to LAW in 1.3, and I don't have a problem with it. It's a little challenging, but still very, very useful. You just need to crouch for a short time, no need for camping. So please think about stuff you want to be changed before you post it (This doesn't mean you didn't think about it. It's just an advice for if you didn't).

November 4, 2005, 11:24 pm
I say again, this topic was made by me to discuss even the option of aplying more elements.
Doesnt matter what it is.

IF you want a more exciting game, I suggest you offer that in another place.
This place was made so we can reach a good balance, not to make a more exciting game.
First you balance the game , then concer yourself with developing it.

Developing a defected game only makes it harder to fix the defects later.
Just like a building, make good foundations first before adding more floors.

November 5, 2005, 9:45 am
An un-balanced game isn't exciting. Can you see that simple connection?
The more weapons we have, the harder it is to balance them. Thus we need to apply new elements, like bink, self bink and charge time, to make a complex yet good weapon balance. And saying that "OMG CHARGE RUINS >GUN<" while you haven't even tested it, then suggesting to make it two-hit kill rather.. (Barret's case.) I sometimes just don't understand you people.

Deleted User
November 5, 2005, 8:00 pm
I completly disagree with ok...all he's doing is tryin gto make a hard game with no fun.
Someone would be nice enough to kill him plz ?
Anyways, That's a really dumb idea in my opinion, most of people alreaedy whine about the waiting time of the law, and now you want to add it on more weapons.
I'd agree for the barret though.

November 6, 2005, 6:35 am
Who said I didn't test it demonics :)
I tried it, enough.
This is not a question of adding new elements to the game, its a question of adding them to the weapons.
The backflip for example, a great addon, if one chooses to use it, he can, if not he can still enjoy the game as it was.

Most players who are true to soldat likes it because of what it is, most of the complaints and whiners are about the balance!
FIRST BALANCE the game, THEN add to it stuff if the public wants.
Solving the first with the latter brings only more frustration and complications to it.
Thus you reach a point where you're sick of trying to do it and you start a public beta.